| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Colin Day" |
| Date: |
03 May 2004 11:07:26 PM |
| Object: |
Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans
to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof
of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
Right. . .
Colin Day aa #1500
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
05 May 2004 05:53:54 AM |
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On Tue, 04 May 2004 04:07:26 GMT in alt.atheism, Colin Day (Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
Right. . .
Well, I trust Hammond will be suing...
Tipler is probably touting his "Omega Point Theory". IIRC the idea is
that at the collapse of the universe, it is theoretically possible to
experience an infinite number of states in a finite time. And this is
heaven, and given the principle of the identity of indiscernibles, the
you that's one of these infinite states *really* will be you, not a
mere copy.
That said, IIRC, what Tipler terms the Cosmic Anthropic Principle,
others name the Completely Ridiculous Anthropic Principle.
(and please note the number of "IIRCs" in the above....).
Personally I prefer the simulation argument
http://www.simulation-argument.com
of Nick Bostrom, PhD, Philosophy Faculty, Oxford University.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
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| User: "Topquark" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 07:39:38 AM |
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"Colin Day" <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:40971B59.8060702@sc.rr.com...
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans
to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof
of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
Right. . .
Have you actually read Tipler's book, or are you just spouting off based on
a news report?
Tipler (a physicist at Tulane) makes a reasonable case that intelligent life
could evolve to the point where, in the final stages of the universe, it has
many of the attributes of a god.
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 06:56:00 PM |
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On Tue, 4 May 2004 08:39:38 -0400, "Topquark" <jruss1987@XXyahoo.com>
wrote:
"Colin Day" <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:40971B59.8060702@sc.rr.com...
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans
to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof
of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
Right. . .
Have you actually read Tipler's book, or are you just spouting off based on
a news report?
Tipler (a physicist at Tulane) makes a reasonable case that intelligent life
could evolve to the point where, in the final stages of the universe, it has
many of the attributes of a god.
Which "attributes" of god - that's the critical thing.
Does it answer prayers? Does it judge all souls and reward or punish
them? Does it demand/require our worship?
How could you derive **any** of those attributes from thinking about
physics?
A "reasonable" case?
"reasonable" in whose opinion?
Why should their opinion matter to me?
It's crap - it doesnt matter how many physics degrees a person has.
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
"My name is Mark I am a recovering Skeptic
(AKA Muddy Boggs, AKA Donald R. Alford AKA ...)
debater. It is 037 days since I last tried to argue
with him."
You too can quit! Take the pledge!
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| User: "Andrew Lias" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 08:08:56 AM |
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Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message news:<40971B59.8060702@sc.rr.com>...
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans
to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof
of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
Right. . .
Tipler's thesis is that a god-like being will be created at the omega
point of the universe. The theory is that intelligence can engineer
the final collapse of the universe so that it can take the form of an
infinitely powerful computer which would be used to "ressurect" every
entity that ever existed in a kind of ultimate VR simulation. Because
the processing speed of the computer would supposedly increases
asymptotically, the inhabitants of this sim would experience a
subjective eternity even though the end of the universe would edge
ever closer.
There's a lot of suppositions in his thesis however the biggest blow
to it has come from recent evidence that the universe will not only
fail to collapse but that it is, in fact, accellerating into a state
of runaway expansion.
--
Andrew Lias
http://andrewlias.blogspot.com
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| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 01:56:35 PM |
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"Andrew Lias" <anrwlias@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ffc8a152.0405040508.356fd75a@posting.google.com...
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<40971B59.8060702@sc.rr.com>...
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans
to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof
of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
Right. . .
Tipler's thesis is that a god-like being will be created at the omega
point of the universe. The theory is that intelligence can engineer
the final collapse of the universe so that it can take the form of an
infinitely powerful computer which would be used to "ressurect" every
entity that ever existed in a kind of ultimate VR simulation. Because
the processing speed of the computer would supposedly increases
asymptotically, the inhabitants of this sim would experience a
subjective eternity even though the end of the universe would edge
ever closer.
There's a lot of suppositions in his thesis
<Bursting out laughing.>
That is one doozy of an understatement.
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| User: "torch" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 10:25:59 AM |
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"Andrew Lias" <anrwlias@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ffc8a152.0405040508.356fd75a@posting.google.com...
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<40971B59.8060702@sc.rr.com>...
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans
to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof
of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
Right. . .
Tipler's thesis is that a god-like being will be created at the omega
point of the universe. The theory is that intelligence can engineer
the final collapse of the universe so that it can take the form of an
infinitely powerful computer which would be used to "ressurect" every
entity that ever existed in a kind of ultimate VR simulation. Because
the processing speed of the computer would supposedly increases
asymptotically, the inhabitants of this sim would experience a
subjective eternity even though the end of the universe would edge
ever closer.
There's a lot of suppositions in his thesis however the biggest blow
to it has come from recent evidence that the universe will not only
fail to collapse but that it is, in fact, accellerating into a state
of runaway expansion.
Perhaps thats because we are already in the simulation and thats what it
wants you to believe - just a thought
--
Andrew Lias
http://andrewlias.blogspot.com
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| User: "Andrew Lias" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 06:52:20 PM |
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"torch" <torch@torch.com> wrote in message news:<c78ckr$q88$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>...
"Andrew Lias" <anrwlias@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ffc8a152.0405040508.356fd75a@posting.google.com...
There's a lot of suppositions in his thesis however the biggest blow
to it has come from recent evidence that the universe will not only
fail to collapse but that it is, in fact, accellerating into a state
of runaway expansion.
Perhaps thats because we are already in the simulation and thats what it
wants you to believe - just a thought
Since Tipler is attempting to use cosmology to advocate his Omega
point hypothesis, assuming that the hypothesis is true in order to
dispute cosmological evidence against it merely begs the question.
I would also note that, at the point where we start entertaining the
supposition that we're already in the simulation, we've merely
reinvented solipsism. You may as well suppose that you are a brain in
a jar or an incorpreal thought. As with most other varients of
solipsism, it's perfectly impregnable to argument or contradiction
which, of course, makes it a rather pointless philosophy.
--
Andrew Lias
http://andrewlias.blogspot.com
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| User: "The Watcher" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 11:39:09 AM |
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On Tue, 4 May 2004 16:25:59 +0100, "torch" <torch@torch.com> wrote:
(snip)
Perhaps thats because we are already in the simulation and thats what it
wants you to believe - just a thought
Then I guess we can add deceptive and dishonest to those attributes of that god,
eh?
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| User: "Topquark" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 11:37:39 AM |
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"Andrew Lias" <anrwlias@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ffc8a152.0405040508.356fd75a@posting.google.com...
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<40971B59.8060702@sc.rr.com>...
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans
to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof
of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
Right. . .
Tipler's thesis is that a god-like being will be created at the omega
point of the universe. The theory is that intelligence can engineer
the final collapse of the universe so that it can take the form of an
infinitely powerful computer which would be used to "ressurect" every
entity that ever existed in a kind of ultimate VR simulation. Because
the processing speed of the computer would supposedly increases
asymptotically, the inhabitants of this sim would experience a
subjective eternity even though the end of the universe would edge
ever closer.
There's a lot of suppositions in his thesis however the biggest blow
to it has come from recent evidence that the universe will not only
fail to collapse but that it is, in fact, accellerating into a state
of runaway expansion.
Right. You could still have immortality in the open universe, but not the
universe-wide omega point AFAICS.
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 07:00:28 PM |
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On Tue, 4 May 2004 12:37:39 -0400, "Topquark" <jruss1987@XXyahoo.com>
wrote:
"Andrew Lias" <anrwlias@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ffc8a152.0405040508.356fd75a@posting.google.com...
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<40971B59.8060702@sc.rr.com>...
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans
to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof
of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
Right. . .
Tipler's thesis is that a god-like being will be created at the omega
point of the universe. The theory is that intelligence can engineer
the final collapse of the universe so that it can take the form of an
infinitely powerful computer which would be used to "ressurect" every
entity that ever existed in a kind of ultimate VR simulation. Because
the processing speed of the computer would supposedly increases
asymptotically, the inhabitants of this sim would experience a
subjective eternity even though the end of the universe would edge
ever closer.
There's a lot of suppositions in his thesis however the biggest blow
to it has come from recent evidence that the universe will not only
fail to collapse but that it is, in fact, accellerating into a state
of runaway expansion.
Right. You could still have immortality in the open universe, but not the
universe-wide omega point AFAICS.
Existence is not the be - all and end all of godhood in any case.
My left tennis shoe "exists" - that doesn't make it my god.
Godhood is subjective opinion - not an objective fact.
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
"My name is Mark I am a recovering Skeptic
(AKA Muddy Boggs, AKA Donald R. Alford AKA ...)
debater. It is 037 days since I last tried to argue
with him."
You too can quit! Take the pledge!
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 10:54:52 AM |
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"Andrew Lias" <anrwlias@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ffc8a152.0405040508.356fd75a@posting.google.com...
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<40971B59.8060702@sc.rr.com>...
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans
to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof
of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
Right. . .
Tipler's thesis is that a god-like being will be created at the omega
point of the universe. The theory is that intelligence can engineer
the final collapse of the universe so that it can take the form of an
infinitely powerful computer which would be used to "ressurect" every
entity that ever existed in a kind of ultimate VR simulation. Because
the processing speed of the computer would supposedly increases
asymptotically, the inhabitants of this sim would experience a
subjective eternity even though the end of the universe would edge
ever closer.
There's a lot of suppositions in his thesis however the biggest blow
to it has come from recent evidence that the universe will not only
fail to collapse but that it is, in fact, accellerating into a state
of runaway expansion.
There's a lot of ifs involved. IF there's an intelligence, IF it thinks of
the idea, IF it cares to do it, IF, IF, IF.
I can "prove" Star Wars. IF there's a galaxy far, far away, and IF the
rebels have the plans to the new Death Star, and IF...
It's fiction.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 04:21:45 AM |
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In article <40971B59.8060702@sc.rr.com>, Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com>
wrote:
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about
a scientist having proof of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the
cosmological singularity.
Right. . .
Colin Day aa #1500
Sounds about as convincing as Lee Strobel's "Case for..." series. Same
crap every time around the track.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 11:20:55 AM |
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*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
Sounds about as convincing as Lee Strobel's "Case for..." series. Same
crap every time around the track.
Well, Strobel's arguments show little more than faulty reasoning;
Tipler's work at least shows a lot of imagination.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 02:27:27 AM |
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On Tue, 04 May 2004 04:07:26 GMT, Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans
to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof
of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
Right. . .
Tipler can make whatever he wants his God.
It's his business alone. I just don't give a Rats.
He can't force me or anyone else to worship it, or think its my
Father, or my source of meaning, or salvation , or think its a
conscious willful being with a "plan" and a "purpose" or...
Same goes for Jesus or the Holy Tennis shoe of Seth.
Typical conversation between a theist and an atheist:
"I worship the Shiny Bald Head of Teli Savalas! The one true God!"
"Great, yeah, whoopie doo. I'll have a large fries with that please."
I mean!
What else *is* there to say?
Seriously!
Mark
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
"My name is Mark I am a recovering Skeptic
(AKA Muddy Boggs, AKA Donald R. Alford AKA ...)
debater. It is 037 days since I last tried to argue
with him."
You too can quit! Take the pledge!
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 07:11:56 AM |
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On Tue, 04 May 2004 04:07:26 GMT, Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans
to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof
of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
Then he has to prove this.
Unfortunately, like most of them he doesn't eseen to ubderstand that
there is no way toderive it, and the only reason even to propose it is
his pre-existing religious belief.
Right. . .
Colin Day aa #1500
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| User: "Alex" |
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| Title: Re: Frank Tipler's "proof" of God |
04 May 2004 06:53:37 AM |
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On Tue, 04 May 2004 04:07:26 GMT, Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:
One of the TV stations here (WLTX, a CBS affiliate) sent a reporter to
New Orleans
to interview Tipler. The station had some teaser ads about a scientist
having proof
of God. Tipler's claim is that God is the cosmological singularity.
This was analyzed thouroughly in a Skeptic magazine a long while ago.
Skeptic Vol. 3, No. 4, pages 57-73 in three articles.
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