On Wed, 4 May 2005 03:24:14 -0400, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"Mephisto" <mephisto@go.away> wrote

I know they can be a bunch of loonies sometimes, but I'm surprised
they're attacking a play like this. It's pretty inoffensive and very
funny.

All it takes is for one dog to start barking, and pretty soon every
&*%@ dog in the neighborhood is howling away.

"Fred," like the rest, is such an idiot he doesn't even know who
he doesn't like. He's not capable of forming an opinion on his
own, and these are college Republicans spewing their malice
towards the woman....

He hasn't seen the play. I think that was all I really needed to know.
If he wants to base his opinion of a play one that of a rabid
republican that's his business, but perhaps he shouldn't expect anyone
else to take it seriously.

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1115161475.589c6cc1b3288c20353a15f619fc5e43@teranews...

Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote in
news:getf71h56mv559m4odc1q84lm31ogquj7r@4ax.com:

On Tue, 03 May 2005 20:30:13 GMT, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote in
news:gvkf71lrkhdf1vrn2budo95g3eq6tgmduq@4ax.com:

On Tue, 03 May 2005 11:41:39 GMT, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

AckbarJedi <AckbarDEATHJediTO@hotSPAMmail.com> wrote in
news:d57618$cmp$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu:

JTEM wrote:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote

College administrators have been enthusiastic supporters
Eve Ensler's play The Vagina Monologues and schools
across the nation celebrate "V- Day" (short for Vagina
Day) every year. But when the College Republicans
at Roger Williams University in Rhode Island rained
on the celebrations of V-Day by inaugurating Penis Day
and staging a satire called The Penis
Monologues, the official reaction was horror.

Um, "Fred," even someone of your stature must understand
that there's a difference between killing someone because
they're trying to butcher your mother & killing someone
because they think oranges taste better than apples.

"Motives" makes a difference to us humans, a very large
difference.

Concerning motives: Reading what I quote above, what
impression do you get?

Hint: "Rained on the celebrations of V-Day"

Bigger hint: "Satire"

Hint: "Freedom of expression".

Bigger hint: "Liberal Double Standards".

What would you think of these self-described Republicans
if they went out of their way to "Rain on the celebrations
of Passover"?

I find it hilarious that JTEM compares "Vagina Day", celebrating a
vulgar play that glorifies child abuse, with a cultural and
religious holiday like Passover.

Which part of the play glorifies child abuse?

The scene where the older woman seduces the underage girl.

"Its only romantic scene, if you can call it that, takes place when
a 24-year-old woman seduces a young girl (in the original version
she was 13 years old, but in a more recent version is played as a
16-year-old.) The woman invites the girl into her car, takes her to
her house, plies her with vodka, and seduces her. What might seem
like a scene from a public-service kidnapping-prevention video shown
to schoolchildren becomes, in Ensler’s play “a kind of heaven.”

That just says that it happens in the play. It is described in some
detail and some people have found it offensive but that's art for
you. Where, though, is it glorified?

http://research.umbc.edu/~korenman/wmst/vag_mon.html

[discussion thread]

Hi everyone,
I want to amend my earlier comment about the performance of The
Vagina Monologues that we saw in Detroit; it seems that my
description is confusing folks.

The monologue by the 13-year-old girl who was seduced by an older
woman was performed. However, in the published text of the work,
there is a concluding paragraph that was not performed. The
paragraph says, in part, "Now people say that it was a kind of rape.
I was only thirteen and she was twenty-four. Well, I say, if it was
a rape, it was a good rape then, a rape that turned my sorry-*****
coochi-snorcher [vagina] into a kind of heaven" (75).

The decision to leave these lines out of the performance troubles me
quite a bit, although I can imagine why people would be reluctant to
say "good rape" out loud in any setting.

Have you seen the play, or are you just relying on one obviously
biased anti-feminist review for your information about it?

As opposed to a few obviously biased pro-feminist reviews? I've seen
more than one negative review. Not all of them are from
"conservative" papers.

No, I haven't seen it. Have you?

I've seen it. As a hetero guy, I was not offended, nor did I get the
"vitriolic anti-male" vibe that people are taking from it. It had its
moments...but that's the thing about artistic expression: it's subject
to interpretation.

enjoyment (definitely some funny and some poignant moments) and
certainly thought provoking- but some parts were better than others.
I think it's supposed to make you uncomfortable. Would we prefer our
art to be perfectly PC? I hope not.

Personally, I think JTEM has a point: it's pretty disrespectful to
protest what the v-day folks are trying to promote which is, after
all, awareness of violence and other abuse of women.

I personally find
their protest to be in kind of poor taste especially in that context.
And it does suggest a certain insecurity. *Nevertheless*, there's
certainly a giggle factor involved in vagina-shaped lollipops and some
of the people who take it *way* too seriously... it's bound to get
ridiculed. So, fine- ridicule away. It's crazy to "ban" the P-day
thing. Jeez, just laugh it off and go on.

Assuming their protests were
actually banned (and not just prevented from interfering with the
v-day functions, which would be understandable) it's clearly a form
of censorship, which is to be opposed in all cases. Yes, I believe the
Klan should be allowed to rally on MLK day, too (not that the P-day
thing is anything like the Klan, mind you, just saying that you don't
have to agree with someone's POV to want them to be able to express
it).