| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Conspiracy of Doves" |
| Date: |
26 Feb 2007 12:22:28 PM |
| Object: |
Free will and faith |
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
If that is the case, why do fundamentalists typically act like robots?
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
27 Feb 2007 09:16:35 AM |
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" free will and faith...If that is the case, why do fundamentalists
typically act like robots?"
V:
Yes, hermeneutics is a major problem with religious thought.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics
There is such debate and disagreement as to what the scriptures really
mean and the consequences of a 'bad' interpretation will mean
everlasting torture and pain in hell? When deciphering code and
hidden meanings becomes a life or death proposition, one has to wonder
about a God that supposedly put his name on such a muddled up
document. I can also tell you that destroying another being and
causing them 'pain and torturing for eternity' will yield the provider
of that pain and torture ZERO peace. This concept of pain, eternal
hell and karma all smacks of the human touch of 'fear based' religious
thought. We can see it in a quote from a Christian list member here:
JesusForgiveThem writes:
"Do you believe in eternal suffering? I surely would hate for anyone
to consciously chose to spend an eternity in hell over some foolish
pride that they can't get over ... as opposed to opening your heart to
Jesus and see what he has to offer before writing Him off completely."
This discussion of eternal suffering that JesusForgiveThem brings up
leads us to another problem. Which divinely inspired document does one
follow as there are numerous books... all claiming to the word of God?
And all these documents conflict with each other? It is with this
overlap of these documents that are in agreement that I seek to find
peace with. And anything that conflicts or cannot be substantiated and
does not pass my empirical tests I have to let it go as 'man's ego'
being injected into the equation. If God wishes to make things clear
and without the need for hermeneutics then I am all ears. But until
that time, we must each do the best we can and come to peace with this
subject for ourselves.
But this problem of hermeneutics is not limited solely to the study of
monotheism. It also encompasses the history of Buddhist thought as
well. A favorite saying of the Mahayana is that of using 'skillful
means' to achieve ones goal. Skillful Means = Put a Spin On It = LIE.
Now, I am not just singling out the Mahayana as the bad boys. Lies and
imperfections are widespread throughout all spiritual thought that was
ever created my man. Man is imperfect and as such all his religious
thought it also imperfect. But within these imperfections there are
also many perfection's, as seldom is a thing all good or all bad.
With my own spiritual quest I have evolved into an empirical
spiritualist. Or maybe a more detailed description of this would be an
Agnostic Spiritualist Moralist Empiricist' From the tradition of
religion telling massive lies intermingled with some truths (yes the
spiritual traditions of the world contain some truth) I have learned
to not believe anything that requires faith and cannot be tested and
applied as a universal law to the whole of society. I apply this form
of thought to all my spiritual traditions I draw from whether it be
monotheism to Buddhism or Taoism.
Now some of these spiritual truths are 'lesser truths' and subjective
in nature. The application of such relative truth is more or less
unimportant and up to the likes or dislikes of the individual. But the
larger truths that are universal in nature are what I try to
distinguish and then follow. If a concept is not 'crystal clear' and
requires much speculation, I let it go. We can see what has happened
in religious history when man gets too 'enthused' about
interpretation. I do not wish to follow in those footsteps.
How do we know we have made an honest effort at this decoding
business? For one, we do not fool with decoding, we just think and
test for truth. Number two, we come to peace by giving it the 'hell
test.' We work towards moral and ethical principles and develop what
is called a 'good heart' which also aligns us magically with the
empirical basics of religious thought in the various documents
attributed to be the word of God. If we are successful at this quest
and ethically and morally sound, when it comes time to die we can be
at peace knowing we have done our best in this area. And if we find
out that there is a hell and the entity 'claiming to be God' (for lack
of a better name) has domed us to hell from 'not decoding it right'
even with our best efforts, we can be at peace with knowing God is an
unjust God and not a real God but an alien 'god bully' of sorts.
And when it comes to dying and the title 'loving God', we as imperfect
humans that strive to develop a good heart will contain infinity more
of that true 'Godly nature' that this 'alien god bully' claming to be
God that seeks to torture those that have worked along spiritual lines
to be good people. This is the 'hell test' in a nutshell - you are at
peace with your actions and you are authentic as well about your life.
When you align Right Actions + Authenticity this equals PEACE - Just
as Socrates told his accusers when they condemned him to death.
Socrates had no fear of evil in this life or after death:
"Wherefore, O judges, be of good cheer about death, and know this of a
truth - that no evil can happen to a good man, either in life or after
death."
As I write this post, I am reminded of aliens in an old "Superman"
movies that came to earth to tell us to 'bow down' to them or else?
Yes, the aliens in the movie had great powers but they were not
God...they were just gods to us humans. Seek truth, seek inner peace,
seek the development of a good heart and put your best efforts into
finding it and you too can be at peace with this subject. Of course,
if one has never found inner peace all that I am telling you is
unbelievable to you? Always remember...a wise mans knows what he says
and a fool can only say what he knows. Learn to say what you know, and
also know right from wrong actions and you can be at peace with your
life or any life to come as well.
One last point. If you look at the name of the Christian I quoted
above it is JesusForgiveThem it tells an interesting story in itself.
If a God needs to be told by JesusForgiveThem or any other of us
humans what to do, what is right or wrong and we can sway an
omnipotent and perfect God just by begging...then that is one scary
God. For we can see what has happened on earth when human demigods
have been in power.
See:
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/burning.html
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
27 Feb 2007 02:17:41 PM |
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On 27 Feb 2007 07:16:35 -0800, "V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote:
" free will and faith...If that is the case, why do fundamentalists
typically act like robots?"
Yes, hermeneutics is a major problem with religious thought.
And access to the internet is a major problem with idiots like you.
<plonk>
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
26 Feb 2007 10:49:03 PM |
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"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172514148.281616.47350@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
If that is the case, why do fundamentalists typically act like robots?
But guess what? At some point in the future, (imaginary) 'God' is going to
destroy (imaginary) Satan and his (imaginary)minions. He is going to
eradicate 'evil' once and for all. 'So what', you say? Well, think about it.
It means that all those 'angels' in heaven will be minus 'free-will'. There
will be no 'bad' for them to be supernaturally coerced to become, thoughts
to envision, or impulses to follow. They will be, for all intents and
purposes, 'robots'.
Now, you can ask yourself, 'Couldn't (imaginary) 'God' just have avoided
creating evil and allow what followed as result -- all from the 'git-go'?
Why did 'Mr. Perfect' consciously *choose* to create evil when he had the
option *not* to? The answer is self evident: He's 'evil'! (Where's the
'LOVE' in what he did?)
Greywolf
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
27 Feb 2007 06:47:14 AM |
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On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:49:03 -0600, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote:
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172514148.281616.47350@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
If that is the case, why do fundamentalists typically act like robots?
But guess what? At some point in the future, (imaginary) 'God' is going to
destroy (imaginary) Satan and his (imaginary)minions. He is going to
eradicate 'evil' once and for all. 'So what', you say? Well, think about it.
It means that all those 'angels' in heaven will be minus 'free-will'. There
will be no 'bad' for them to be supernaturally coerced to become, thoughts
to envision, or impulses to follow. They will be, for all intents and
purposes, 'robots'.
Now, you can ask yourself, 'Couldn't (imaginary) 'God' just have avoided
creating evil and allow what followed as result -- all from the 'git-go'?
Why did 'Mr. Perfect' consciously *choose* to create evil when he had the
option *not* to? The answer is self evident: He's 'evil'! (Where's the
'LOVE' in what he did?)
Greywolf
Isn't there Satan's Spawn or vampire aliens to fill the gap? :-)
Ben
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
26 Feb 2007 05:41:06 PM |
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"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172514148.281616.47350@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
If that is the case, why do fundamentalists typically act like robots?
They don't really believe in a god. They believe in
their minister. The minister is the puppet master.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
BAAWA Knight & Bible Thumper Thumper
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
When fascism comes to America, it will be
wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross -
Sinclair Lewis
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
26 Feb 2007 02:02:17 PM |
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"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172514148.281616.47350@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
This sort of suggests that fundies believe that agreeing to a well reasoned
argument mean you're a robot.
Bizarre.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
26 Feb 2007 08:21:31 PM |
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On Feb 26, 3:02 pm, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com> wrote:
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:1172514148.281616.47350@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
This sort of suggests that fundies believe that agreeing to a well reasoned
argument mean you're a robot.
Not when you realize that is simply the response that has been
programmed into them.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
28 Feb 2007 05:49:33 AM |
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Conspiracy of Doves <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
How does observing something violate free will? I don't get it.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
28 Feb 2007 12:28:25 PM |
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 05:49:33 -0600, Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
How does observing something violate free will? I don't get it.
Perhaps God is of such high energy that we can invoke Shrodinger's (sp)
hypothesis. :-)
Ben
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
28 Feb 2007 06:30:06 PM |
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 13:28:25 -0500, Ben Kaufman
<spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 05:49:33 -0600, Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
How does observing something violate free will? I don't get it.
Perhaps God is of such high energy that we can invoke Shrodinger's (sp)
hypothesis. :-)
Ben
Oops, I meant Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
Ben
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
27 Feb 2007 12:49:32 AM |
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In article <1172514148.281616.47350@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote:
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
If that is the case, why do fundamentalists typically act like robots?
They're free to do whatever their corrupt religious leaders tell them to
do.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
26 Feb 2007 10:18:35 PM |
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On 26 Feb 2007 10:22:28 -0800, "Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
If that is the case, why do fundamentalists typically act like robots?
You are putting the cart before the horse. The robots have been programmed to
answer the question that way.
Ben
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| User: "Bill Dunkenfield" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
27 Feb 2007 11:13:41 AM |
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Ben Kaufman wrote:
On 26 Feb 2007 10:22:28 -0800, "Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
If that is the case, why do fundamentalists typically act like robots?
You are putting the cart before the horse. The robots have been programmed to
answer the question that way.
Ben
Religion is fundamentally the surrender of free will in exchange for a
false sense of security.
JAM
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| User: "Joshua Aaron" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
27 Feb 2007 06:30:12 PM |
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On Feb 27, 11:13 am, Bill Dunkenfield <BillDunkenfi...@nospam.net>
wrote:
Religion is fundamentally the surrender of free will in exchange for a
false sense of security.
JAM
Would I be stretching the topic suggesting those who have religious
beliefs (Abraham's) are eerily similar to those in America who offer
unquestioned support for the patriot act? I don't think so.
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
28 Feb 2007 12:06:32 PM |
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On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:13:41 -0500, Bill Dunkenfield
<BillDunkenfield@nospam.net> wrote:
Ben Kaufman wrote:
On 26 Feb 2007 10:22:28 -0800, "Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
If that is the case, why do fundamentalists typically act like robots?
You are putting the cart before the horse. The robots have been programmed to
answer the question that way.
Ben
Religion is fundamentally the surrender of free will in exchange for a
false sense of security.
JAM
It's also a great business if you know how to work it.
Ben
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| User: "Joshua Aaron" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
26 Feb 2007 12:38:30 PM |
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On Feb 26, 12:22 pm, "Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_d...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
If that is the case, why do fundamentalists typically act like robots?
Suggesting fundamentalists act like robots does a dis-service to
robots.
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| User: "Mettas Mother" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
26 Feb 2007 01:20:29 PM |
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Are robots conscious to display displeasure?
"Joshua Aaron" <tennesseetex@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172515110.193077.222700@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 26, 12:22 pm, "Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_d...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
If that is the case, why do fundamentalists typically act like robots?
Suggesting fundamentalists act like robots does a dis-service to
robots.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
26 Feb 2007 05:07:43 PM |
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On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:20:29 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<mettas_mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Joshua Aaron" <tennesseetex@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172515110.193077.222700@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 26, 12:22 pm, "Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_d...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
If that is the case, why do fundamentalists typically act like robots?
Suggesting fundamentalists act like robots does a dis-service to
robots.
Are robots conscious
More conscious than fundies.
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| User: "Mettas Mother" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
11 Mar 2007 04:01:37 PM |
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And who are fundies in here?
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:01q6u2t7eh2fv5fjd00iif02f8to3kjah0@4ax.com...
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:20:29 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<mettas_mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Are robots conscious
More conscious than fundies.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
12 Mar 2007 07:39:08 AM |
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On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 05:01:37 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:01q6u2t7eh2fv5fjd00iif02f8to3kjah0@4ax.com...
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:20:29 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<mettas_mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Are robots conscious
More conscious than fundies.
And who are fundies in here?
Before you made your first post you should have lurked long enough to
know the answer to that question.
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| User: "Mettas Mother" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
12 Mar 2007 10:57:38 AM |
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So you don't know that answer or are afraid to say the answer in public?
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:9eiav2dn78r8j568ebplclmtb99jishm7b@4ax.com...
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 05:01:37 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:01q6u2t7eh2fv5fjd00iif02f8to3kjah0@4ax.com...
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:20:29 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<mettas_mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Are robots conscious
More conscious than fundies.
And who are fundies in here?
Before you made your first post you should have lurked long enough to
know the answer to that question.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
12 Mar 2007 09:50:49 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:57:38 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:9eiav2dn78r8j568ebplclmtb99jishm7b@4ax.com...
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 05:01:37 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:01q6u2t7eh2fv5fjd00iif02f8to3kjah0@4ax.com...
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:20:29 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<mettas_mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Are robots conscious
More conscious than fundies.
And who are fundies in here?
Before you made your first post you should have lurked long enough to
know the answer to that question.
So you don't know that answer or are afraid to say the answer in public?
Two good guesses, but neither one is correct.
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| User: "Mettas Mother" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
14 Mar 2007 08:13:08 AM |
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Can that be proved?
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:hb4cv25itrje0u2abcgj9u0gho7vu22294@4ax.com...
Two good guesses, but neither one is correct.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
14 Mar 2007 02:46:01 PM |
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On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:13:08 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:hb4cv25itrje0u2abcgj9u0gho7vu22294@4ax.com...
Two good guesses, but neither one is correct.
Can that be proved?
Can "that" be referenced?
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| User: "Mettas Mother" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
14 Mar 2007 04:59:22 PM |
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Certainly if you could provide the source.
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:17kgv29gmbsnefcon23ctu3rnp7r41fkdl@4ax.com...
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:13:08 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:hb4cv25itrje0u2abcgj9u0gho7vu22294@4ax.com...
Two good guesses, but neither one is correct.
Can that be proved?
Can "that" be referenced?
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
14 Mar 2007 05:06:45 PM |
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On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:59:22 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:17kgv29gmbsnefcon23ctu3rnp7r41fkdl@4ax.com...
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:13:08 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:hb4cv25itrje0u2abcgj9u0gho7vu22294@4ax.com...
Two good guesses, but neither one is correct.
Can that be proved?
Can "that" be referenced?
Certainly if you could provide the source.
If I could I wouldn't have asked you to explain what you were talking
about.
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| User: "Mettas Mother" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
14 Mar 2007 05:58:55 PM |
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But you are the one that said that neither were correct! When asked to prove you are asking me?
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:mesgv21s9snmk672m6ri3629q1839p73ug@4ax.com...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:59:22 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:17kgv29gmbsnefcon23ctu3rnp7r41fkdl@4ax.com...
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:13:08 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:hb4cv25itrje0u2abcgj9u0gho7vu22294@4ax.com...
Two good guesses, but neither one is correct.
Can that be proved?
Can "that" be referenced?
Certainly if you could provide the source.
If I could I wouldn't have asked you to explain what you were talking
about.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
14 Mar 2007 08:24:54 PM |
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On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 06:58:55 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:mesgv21s9snmk672m6ri3629q1839p73ug@4ax.com...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:59:22 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:17kgv29gmbsnefcon23ctu3rnp7r41fkdl@4ax.com...
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:13:08 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:hb4cv25itrje0u2abcgj9u0gho7vu22294@4ax.com...
Two good guesses, but neither one is correct.
Can that be proved?
Can "that" be referenced?
Certainly if you could provide the source.
If I could I wouldn't have asked you to explain what you were talking
about.
But you are the one that said that neither were correct! When asked to prove you are asking me?
I don't keep old posts, so I have no idea what the response was TO -
you snipped that.
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| User: "Mettas Mother" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
15 Mar 2007 07:52:11 AM |
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A religious person would have remembered!
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:428hv2ht0vf4bnu28ggf34jk3bsrr0ei3g@4ax.com...
I don't keep old posts, so I have no idea what the response was TO -
you snipped that.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
15 Mar 2007 07:49:00 PM |
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On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:52:11 +0800, "Mettas Mother"
<Mettas_Mother1@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:428hv2ht0vf4bnu28ggf34jk3bsrr0ei3g@4ax.com...
I don't keep old posts, so I have no idea what the response was TO -
you snipped that.
A religious person would have remembered!
Like I needed confirmation that I'm not religious.
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| User: "Mettas Mother" |
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| Title: Re: Free will and faith |
26 Feb 2007 12:25:21 PM |
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To anger GOD?
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172514148.281616.47350@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Often we ask fundamentalists why god doesn't simply use his power to,
in some way or another, give everyone knowledge of his existence.
Their typical reply is that it would violate free will and that god
doesn't want robots.
If that is the case, why do fundamentalists typically act like robots?
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