| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
12 Mar 2006 04:18:07 PM |
| Object: |
Freedom from and of Religion Ooops |
Oooops forgot to cite this
6
FREEDOM FROM AND OF RELIGION
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM Is guaranteed in the two opening clauses of the First
Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Together, the clauses
guarantee freedom from and of religion by pointing in opposite directions.
The establishment clause points toward a principle of the separation of
government from religion; neither should involve itself with the other. The
free exercise clause suggests a principle of voluntarism—freedom from
coercion in choosing a religion or no religion.
Religious freedom has never been absolute, however. The First Amendment, as
the Court observed in Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 (1940),
"embraces two concepts—freedom to believe and freedom to act. The first is
absolute but, in the nature of things, the second cannot be. Conduct
remains subject to regulation of society." Drawing on the distinction
between belief and action, the Court thus wrote into constitutional law a
third principle of religious freedom that runs back to Thomas Jefferson,
who, in his Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom for the state of
Virginia in 1779, observed that "the acts of the body," unlike "the
operations of the mind, are subject to the coercion of the laws. . . "1
[snip]
Unlike those who shared Roger Williams's view, Jefferson was more concerned
about insulating government from the influences of religion and religious
fervor. In his home state of Virginia, Jefferson had fought for religious
freedom—freedom not just for Protestants or Christians. As he reflected
about the opposition in 1779 to his "Bill for Establishing Religious
Freedom":
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of
the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting
the word "Jesus Christ," that it should read, "a departure from the plan of
Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected
by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the
mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and
Mohometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination.8
James Madison agreed that a wall of separation would help preserve the
integrity of government, but he also thought that it might benefit religion
as well. Madison, along with Jefferson, opposed proposals to establish
religious taxes in Virginia. In his famous "Memorial and Remonstrance
against Religious Assessments" in 1785, he persuasively argued against
government support of religion. Governmental assistance to religious
establishments, Madison maintained, tended to divide society into factions
and produce "pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in
the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." Nor did Madison
think government depended on the support of religion. "That is not a just
government," he wrote in 1792, in which "a man's religious rights are
violated by penalties, or fettered by tests, or taxes by a hierarchy."9
SOURCE: CONSTITUTIONAL LAW AND POLITICS, Vol. 2, Civil Rights, Civil
Liberties, David M. O'Brien Fourth Edition, W.W. Norton & Co. NY p. 655
(2000)
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
| User: "fred" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops; discussion fails 10th Amendment test. |
12 Mar 2006 04:43:50 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Oooops forgot to cite this
6
FREEDOM FROM AND OF RELIGION
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM Is guaranteed in the two opening clauses of the First
Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Together, the clauses
guarantee freedom from and of religion by pointing in opposite directions.
The establishment clause points toward a principle of the separation of
government from religion; neither should involve itself with the other. T=
he
free exercise clause suggests a principle of voluntarism-freedom from
coercion in choosing a religion or no religion.
Your oversight about freedom from religion is that you cannot impose
freedom from religion on others. But this is what you and other
misguided secularists are unwittingly trying to do with respect to
cheerleading the unconstitutional principle of absolute church-state
separation.
The problem is that the people have forgotten their history and
consequently don't understand that the 1st and 10th Amendments together
reserved the power to legislate religion uniquely to the States:
1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people
peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of
grievances.
10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the
Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the
States respectively, or to the people.
Religious freedom has never been absolute, however. The First Amendment, =
as
the Court observed in Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 (1940),
"embraces two concepts-freedom to believe and freedom to act. The first is
absolute but, in the nature of things, the second cannot be. Conduct
remains subject to regulation of society." Drawing on the distinction
between belief and action, the Court thus wrote into constitutional law a
third principle of religious freedom that runs back to Thomas Jefferson,
who, in his Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom for the state of
Virginia in 1779, observed that "the acts of the body," unlike "the
operations of the mind, are subject to the coercion of the laws. . . "1
[snip]
Unlike those who shared Roger Williams's view, Jefferson was more concern=
ed
about insulating government from the influences of religion and religious
fervor. In his home state of Virginia, Jefferson had fought for religious
freedom-freedom not just for Protestants or Christians. As he reflected
about the opposition in 1779 to his "Bill for Establishing Religious
Freedom":
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of
the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting
the word "Jesus Christ," that it should read, "a departure from the plan =
of
Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected
by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the
mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and
Mohometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination.8
James Madison agreed that a wall of separation would help preserve the
integrity of government, but he also thought that it might benefit religi=
on
as well. Madison, along with Jefferson, opposed proposals to establish
religious taxes in Virginia. In his famous "Memorial and Remonstrance
against Religious Assessments" in 1785, he persuasively argued against
government support of religion. Governmental assistance to religious
establishments, Madison maintained, tended to divide society into factions
and produce "pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in
the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." Nor did Madis=
on
think government depended on the support of religion. "That is not a just
government," he wrote in 1792, in which "a man's religious rights are
violated by penalties, or fettered by tests, or taxes by a hierarchy."9
SOURCE: CONSTITUTIONAL LAW AND POLITICS, Vol. 2, Civil Rights, Civil
Liberties, David M. O'Brien Fourth Edition, W.W. Norton & Co. NY p. 655
(2000)
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS =B7 Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why =
"a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisne=
r,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops; discussion fails 10th Amendment test. |
13 Mar 2006 11:17:46 AM |
|
|
On 12 Mar 2006 14:43:50 -0800, "fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
buckeye-elo@nospam.net wrote:
Oooops forgot to cite this
6
FREEDOM FROM AND OF RELIGION
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM Is guaranteed in the two opening clauses of the First
Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Together, the clauses
guarantee freedom from and of religion by pointing in opposite directions.
The establishment clause points toward a principle of the separation of
government from religion; neither should involve itself with the other. The
free exercise clause suggests a principle of voluntarism-freedom from
coercion in choosing a religion or no religion.
Your oversight about freedom from religion is that you cannot impose
freedom from religion on others.
That is because it is freedom
Why is it that the religious reich, hates freedom, especially religious
freedom.?
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops; discussion fails 10th Amendment test. |
14 Mar 2006 09:51:35 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:17:46 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote
in alt.atheism
On 12 Mar 2006 14:43:50 -0800, "fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
buckeye-elo@nospam.net wrote:
Oooops forgot to cite this
6
FREEDOM FROM AND OF RELIGION
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM Is guaranteed in the two opening clauses of the First
Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Together, the clauses
guarantee freedom from and of religion by pointing in opposite directions.
The establishment clause points toward a principle of the separation of
government from religion; neither should involve itself with the other. The
free exercise clause suggests a principle of voluntarism-freedom from
coercion in choosing a religion or no religion.
Your oversight about freedom from religion is that you cannot impose
freedom from religion on others.
That is because it is freedom
Why is it that the religious reich, hates freedom, especially religious
freedom.?
Cowardice, jealousy, envy, sloth, ignorance, insecurity, brain dead,
etc..
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
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|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops |
12 Mar 2006 05:20:51 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:18:07 -0500, wrote:
Oooops forgot to cite this
6
FREEDOM FROM AND OF RELIGION
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM Is guaranteed in the two opening clauses of the First
Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
Together, the clauses
guarantee freedom from and of religion by pointing in opposite directions.
Nope. Congress cannot prohibit my free exercise thereof. You can leave, or
cross the street, if you wish.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops |
13 Mar 2006 12:08:36 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:20:51 -0600, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:18:07 -0500, wrote:
Oooops forgot to cite this
6
FREEDOM FROM AND OF RELIGION
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM Is guaranteed in the two opening clauses of the First
Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
Together, the clauses
guarantee freedom from and of religion by pointing in opposite directions.
Nope. Congress cannot prohibit my free exercise thereof. You can leave, or
cross the street, if you wish.
That's not absolute
If you break city codes, such as parking, noise, or
using controlled substances, government will "prohibit"
you from doing so no matter how much you thump your
bible.
The issue (mostly) is not what INDIVIDUALS do, but what
is allowed by GOVERNMENT to do (or not do)
The establishment clause isn't directed toward
individuals, it's directed at government.
.
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops |
13 Mar 2006 05:54:13 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:08:36 -0700, laffs@'em-all.com wrote:
Nope. Congress cannot prohibit my free exercise thereof. You can leave, or
cross the street, if you wish.
That's not absolute
That's what the BofR's says.
If you break city codes, such as parking, noise, or
using controlled substances, government will "prohibit"
you from doing so no matter how much you thump your
bible.
That's not exercising my religion. Maybe yang is, but I'm not.
The issue (mostly) is not what INDIVIDUALS do, but what
is allowed by GOVERNMENT to do (or not do)
The subject is RELIGION.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops |
13 Mar 2006 12:25:57 PM |
|
|
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
:|On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:18:07 -0500, wrote:
:|
:|>
:|>Oooops forgot to cite this
:|>
:|> 6
:|> FREEDOM FROM AND OF RELIGION
:|>RELIGIOUS FREEDOM Is guaranteed in the two opening clauses of the First
:|>Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
:|>religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
:|
:|>Together, the clauses
:|>guarantee freedom from and of religion by pointing in opposite directions.
:|
:|Nope. Congress cannot prohibit my free exercise thereof. You can leave, or
:|cross the street, if you wish.
Guess you missed this part, huh"
Religious freedom has never been absolute, however. The First Amendment, as
the Court observed in Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 (1940),
"embraces two concepts—freedom to believe and freedom to act. The first is
absolute but, in the nature of things, the second cannot be. Conduct
remains subject to regulation of society." Drawing on the distinction
between belief and action, the Court thus wrote into constitutional law a
third principle of religious freedom that runs back to Thomas Jefferson,
who, in his Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom for the state of
Virginia in 1779, observed that "the acts of the body," unlike "the
operations of the mind, are subject to the coercion of the laws. . . "1
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops |
13 Mar 2006 05:55:47 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:25:57 -0500, wrote:
:|Nope. Congress cannot prohibit my free exercise thereof. You can leave, or
:|cross the street, if you wish.
Guess you missed this part, huh"
Religious freedom has never been absolute, however. The First Amendment, as
the Court observed in Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 (1940),
"embraces two concepts—freedom to believe and freedom to act. The first is
absolute but, in the nature of things, the second cannot be. Conduct
remains subject to regulation of society."
And cannot obstruct my free practice thereof.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops |
12 Mar 2006 05:44:18 PM |
|
|
duke wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:18:07 -0500, wrote:
Oooops forgot to cite this
6
FREEDOM FROM AND OF RELIGION
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM Is guaranteed in the two opening clauses of the First
Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
Together, the clauses
guarantee freedom from and of religion by pointing in opposite directions.
Nope. Congress cannot prohibit my free exercise thereof.
Nor can you prohibit my free exercise to not practice religion... nor
pass laws that prohibit my free exercise thereof.
You can leave, or
cross the street, if you wish.
Or, you can practice what Jesus says and go not into a church, but into
a closet and pray in private. Going to church so that others may see
you is going against Jesus' laws, and destroys the sense of humility
that praying in privat provides.
What ever happened to humbleness?
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "In every country and in every age, the priest *
* has been hostile to liberty. He is always in *
* alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in *
* return for protection to his own." *
* --Jefferson (in a letter to H. Spafford, 1814) *
****************************************************
--
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops |
13 Mar 2006 08:18:37 AM |
|
|
DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote:
:|duke wrote:
:|> On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:18:07 -0500, wrote:
:|>
:|>
:|>>Oooops forgot to cite this
:|>>
:|>> 6
:|>> FREEDOM FROM AND OF RELIGION
:|>>RELIGIOUS FREEDOM Is guaranteed in the two opening clauses of the First
:|>>Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
:|>>religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
:|>
:|>
:|>>Together, the clauses
:|>>guarantee freedom from and of religion by pointing in opposite directions.
:|>
:|>
:|> Nope. Congress cannot prohibit my free exercise thereof.
Actually it can has and does.
:|
:|Nor can you prohibit my free exercise to not practice religion... nor
:|pass laws that prohibit my free exercise thereof.
Better read some law
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops |
13 Mar 2006 08:53:25 AM |
|
|
wrote:
DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote:
:|duke wrote:
:|> On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:18:07 -0500, wrote:
:|>
:|>
:|>>Oooops forgot to cite this
:|>>
:|>> 6
:|>> FREEDOM FROM AND OF RELIGION
:|>>RELIGIOUS FREEDOM Is guaranteed in the two opening clauses of the First
:|>>Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
:|>>religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
:|>
:|>
:|>>Together, the clauses
:|>>guarantee freedom from and of religion by pointing in opposite directions.
:|>
:|>
:|> Nope. Congress cannot prohibit my free exercise thereof.
Actually it can has and does.
Well, if it wanted to remain constitutional, that is...
<snip the rest>
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "In every country and in every age, the priest *
* has been hostile to liberty. He is always in *
* alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in *
* return for protection to his own." *
* --Jefferson (in a letter to H. Spafford, 1814) *
****************************************************
--
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops |
13 Mar 2006 12:25:41 PM |
|
|
DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote:
:|>>:|> Nope. Congress cannot prohibit my free exercise thereof.
:|>
:|>
:|>
:|> Actually it can has and does.
:|
:|Well, if it wanted to remain constitutional, that is...
:|
Whatever that is suppose to mean.
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops |
13 Mar 2006 05:52:40 PM |
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On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:18:37 -0500, wrote:
:|> Nope. Congress cannot prohibit my free exercise thereof.
Actually it can has and does.
Nope, I practice my religious faith any time I want.
:|Nor can you prohibit my free exercise to not practice religion... nor
:|pass laws that prohibit my free exercise thereof.
Better read some law
????
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Religion Ooops |
13 Mar 2006 05:51:01 PM |
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On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:44:18 -0800, DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote:
Together, the clauses
guarantee freedom from and of religion by pointing in opposite directions.
Nope. Congress cannot prohibit my free exercise thereof.
Nor can you prohibit my free exercise to not practice religion... nor
pass laws that prohibit my free exercise thereof.
We're not trying to get you to do that. But you are trying to get us to do it
your way.
You can leave, or
cross the street, if you wish.
Or, you can practice what Jesus says and go not into a church, but into
a closet and pray in private. Going to church so that others may see
you is going against Jesus' laws, and destroys the sense of humility
that praying in privat provides.
I do pray at home. I go to Mass at Church.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Freedom from and of Freddies silly "theories" (laid to rest here) |
18 Mar 2006 12:31:17 PM |
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laffs@'em-all.com wrote:
:|>
:|>"Conflicts in the exercise of rights arise and the conflicting forces
:|>seek adjustments in the courts, as do these parties, claiming on the
:|>one side the freedom of religion, speech and the press, guaranteed by
:|>the Fourteenth Amendment, and on the other the right to employ the
:|>sovereign power explicitly reserved to the State by the Tenth Amendment
:|>to ensure orderly living without which constitutional guarantees of
:|>civil liberties would be a mockery." --Justice Reed, Jones v. City of
:|>Opelika, 1942.
:|
The above case was overturned by the USSC so dicta or otherwise the
comments above are totally meaningless.
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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