"Bonnie *****" <bonnieb@fifispad.org> wrote in message
news:0844p19o2i36jk82iruos41m4ug9qusb3a@4ax.com...

On 3 Dec 2005 13:33:57 -0800, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of
Tohu.Bohu@hotmail.com

States with state religions have low church attendance.

The number here is irrelevant. The same definiton on vice and virtue
and same social policie matter. There is virtue in HARMONY.

But, not much, since harmony (or, using its Marxist synonym: "social

order")

always comes at the cost of certain freedoms or liberties.

This is not the case with Christianity.

Yeah, just ask all the native North and South American peoples whom
the nice christians met when they moved here.
OH WAIT -- you can't, because the nice christians killed most of them.

Maybe we can ask all those nice pagans in Europe -- OH WAIT -- the
christians murdered all of them.

Sweetheart -- after you learn some history, you might figure out that
over the last 2000 years, christ-stain-insanity has cost civilization
dearly. <eye roll>

Well, you've hit the point, albeit in a roundabout way.

The original poster is correct that a homogenously religious society is
socially well-ordered. If it's a religiously *ruled* country, then the
coercion to conform occurs via the legal code. Today's examples are primarly
in the Muslim world, although in the large scheme of things, John Calvin's
Geneva and Puritan Massachutsetts weren't all that long ago.
And, as I asserted originally, that social order comes at a price of
liberty.

If the country is secularly ruled, but relgiously homogenous AND observant,
then society is also well ordered, mostly due to peer pressure and concerns
about being socially ostracized. The plain communities of the US, often
incorrectly referred to by the generalized term "Amish" come to mind.
If the country is not observant (IOW, there's no social penalty for
transgressing religous mores) then people are free to exercise rights of
self-determination. Seeing this open exercise of free will in action scares
the living hell out of those from the aforementioned groups, affirming their
interest and desire of putting social order ahead of individual liberty
(plenty of examples of this, from Osama bin Laden to the Communist Chinese).
Interestingly, there are people from controlled societies who are quite
eloquent in arguing that coercive adherency to religious law *increases*
individual self-determination instead of decreasing it.

I recall one
discussion where my adversary was sincerely attempting to convince me that
(1) Sharia law provides more freedom for women than does Western law, and
that (2) it was perfectly OK to enforce laws requiring headscarfs for women,
in that doing so increased social order at no cost to women's rights.

Bonnie ***** wrote:

On 3 Dec 2005 13:33:57 -0800, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of

States with state religions have low church attendance.

The number here is irrelevant. The same definiton on vice and
virtue and same social policie matter. There is virtue in
HARMONY.

But, not much, since harmony (or, using its Marxist synonym:
"social order") always comes at the cost of certain freedoms or
liberties.

This is not the case with Christianity.

Yeah, just ask all the native North and South American peoples whom
the nice christians met when they moved here.
OH WAIT -- you can't, because the nice christians killed most of
them.

Maybe we can ask all those nice pagans in Europe -- OH WAIT -- the
christians murdered all of them.

Sweetheart -- after you learn some history, you might figure out that
over the last 2000 years, christ-stain-insanity has cost civilization
dearly. <eye roll>

Compared to what we know from History about the pre-Christian world,
Christianity introduced a lot of improvement.

Bonnie ***** wrote:

On 3 Dec 2005 13:33:57 -0800, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of
Tohu.Bohu@hotmail.com

States with state religions have low church attendance.

The number here is irrelevant. The same definiton on vice and virtue
and same social policie matter. There is virtue in HARMONY.

But, not much, since harmony (or, using its Marxist synonym: "social order")
always comes at the cost of certain freedoms or liberties.

This is not the case with Christianity.

Yeah, just ask all the native North and South American peoples whom
the nice christians met when they moved here.
OH WAIT -- you can't, because the nice christians killed most of them.

Maybe we can ask all those nice pagans in Europe -- OH WAIT -- the
christians murdered all of them.

Sweetheart -- after you learn some history, you might figure out that
over the last 2000 years, christ-stain-insanity has cost civilization
dearly. <eye roll>

Compared to what we know from History about the pre-Christian world,
Christianity introduced a lot of improvement.

MARX WAS A CRACKPOT