| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mr. Young" |
| Date: |
01 Sep 2006 01:39:08 PM |
| Object: |
Freedom to Choose |
I do not necessarily agree with the opinions of the author but I share them
as a service to all.
http://family.org/cforum/fosi/homosexuality/nac/a0037025.cfm
Freedom to Choose
by Caleb H. Price
[ A former self-identified homosexual defends the right to change one's
sexual identity. ]
The on-going controversy surrounding Focus on the Family's Love Won Out
conference reveals the hypocrisy of liberals who call for "tolerance" and
unquestioned acceptance of "diversity" yet attempt to stifle all opposing
views to their politically correct, pro-gay agenda. As a result, another
liberal mantra - the freedom to choose - is denied to those seeking to walk
out of unwanted homosexuality.
Even more troubling is the vitriol unleashed against those who dare to
consider the notion that homosexuality is not an immutable characteristic.
Pro-gay activists regularly charge that messages such as those shared at
Love Won Out are "vile," "dangerous" and "deplorable." Much of their most
virulent rhetoric is saved for the debate over the cause of homosexuality.
At best, the evidence for a genetic basis to homosexuality is inconclusive.
Even the authors of the recent pheromone and fruit fly studies urge caution
in interpreting their work as "proof" of inevitable homosexual behavior
based on biological or genetic circumstances.
Indeed, the current consensus in the scientific community - even the
left-leaning American Psychological Association - is that homosexuality is
likely caused by a complex interaction of biological, psychological, and
social/environmental factors.
While many homosexuals have come to the conclusion that they were "born
gay," there exists a surprising and not insignificant minority of gays and
lesbians who recognize that sexual orientation is, in fact, quite
changeable.
For example, Kate Kendall, director of the National Center for Lesbian
Rights, argues in the gay magazine Frontiers that sexual orientation is not
fixed. Lesbian author Camille Paglia argues that homosexuality is not normal
and that it is an adaptation - not an inborn trait.
Apparently, the reality that people can change their sexual identity isn't
just a right-wing Christian thing.
While no one knows for sure what causes homosexuality, recent research
confirms that permanent change is indeed possible. Pro-gay ally Dr. Robert
Spitzer of Columbia University is now convinced that many homosexuals have
successfully changed their sexual orientation. In 2001, he published results
from a five-year study of 200 gay men and lesbians who had sought
"re-orientation" therapy. Spitzer found that most have been able to achieve
fulfilling heterosexual relationships.
While his research shows that such change often involves a difficult and
long journey, it is nevertheless possible for highly motivated individuals.
Clearly, pro-gay activists aren't dealing with all the evidence in their
insistence that people are born gay and cannot change. In presenting an
orthodox Christian viewpoint on this complex topic, Love Won Out educates
attendees on the issues and provides hope to those who seek change in their
sexual identity and to those whose loved ones are gay-identified. In
presenting the truth about homosexuality with compassion, the conference
message is centered in the redemptive and restorative love of Jesus for all
people - gay and straight.
In America we are blessed with the freedom to make choices about how we
define ourselves while stewarding our sexuality as we see fit. If people
want to change their sexual identity, it is their right to choose.
The complete text of this article is available at:
http://family.org/cforum/fosi/homosexuality/nac/a0037025.cfm
--
----------
Mr. J Yöung
youngopinions@aol.com
.
|
|
| User: "No One" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
02 Sep 2006 05:50:54 PM |
|
|
"Mr. Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> writes:
I do not necessarily agree with the opinions of the author but I share them
as a service to all.
http://family.org/cforum/fosi/homosexuality/nac/a0037025.cfm
Freedom to Choose
by Caleb H. Price
[ A former self-identified homosexual defends the right to change one's
sexual identity. ]
The on-going controversy surrounding Focus on the Family's Love Won Out
conference reveals the hypocrisy of liberals who call for "tolerance" and
unquestioned acceptance of "diversity" yet attempt to stifle all opposing
views to their politically correct, pro-gay agenda. As a result, another
liberal mantra - the freedom to choose - is denied to those seeking to walk
out of unwanted homosexuality.
You are damn right that you shouldn't agree with the opinions of the
author because the author lied - liberals have no objection whatsoever
to someone wanting to or trying to change his or her sexual
orientation. After all, trying to change one's sexual orientation is
no more kinky than a lot of other things people do. Liberals do have
an objection to people selling and marketing "therapies" that don't
work, but that is really just a consumer-protection thing. Quacks who
rip off the public deserve no sympathy.
But just out of curiosity, would J. Young object to a "change your
sexual orientation" therapy that tried to make straight folks gay?
The homophobes think that goes on, calling it "recruitment", and
don't like it. So, it seems the conservatives are really the ones
who object to people trying to change sexual orientations.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Hotel Charlie One" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
02 Sep 2006 06:39:36 AM |
|
|
"Mr. Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in
news:cbOdneZGuuo142XZnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@giganews.com:
In America we are blessed with the freedom to make choices about how
we define ourselves while stewarding our sexuality as we see fit. If
people want to change their sexual identity, it is their right to
choose.
Und if zay chooz zee wrong vay, ve vill harass dem. It is our right,
our destiny.
--
The actions of the disgraceful Clinton and Bush administrations
make it possible for me to say without shame that I deeply regret
the day I put the uniform of my country. The freedoms that I was
willing to protect with my life are being lost. The America of
our founders is dead. All we are waiting for now is rigor mortis.
HotelCharlieOne
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Curt" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
01 Sep 2006 04:51:29 PM |
|
|
"Mr. Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:cbOdneZGuuo142XZnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
I do not necessarily agree with the opinions of the author but I share
them
as a service to all.
http://family.org/cforum/fosi/homosexuality/nac/a0037025.cfm
Freedom to Choose
by Caleb H. Price
[ A former self-identified homosexual defends the right to change one's
sexual identity. ]
Are there people who wouldn't defend that right? Name one.
Curt
.
|
|
|
| User: "gatt" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
01 Sep 2006 05:43:26 PM |
|
|
"Curt" <cje@hevanet.com> wrote in message
news:12fha76es4ed4e5@corp.supernews.com...
Freedom to Choose
[ A former self-identified homosexual defends the right to change one's
sexual identity. ]
Are there people who wouldn't defend that right? Name one.
Didn't you know?! The instant you change your sexual identity, the Gestapo
shows up at your door and labels you as a freak and a mentally-ill defect...
....oh, wait. That's not the Gestapo, that's the Fundies, aka "Closet
Crusaders"
-c
.
|
|
|
| User: "Curt" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
01 Sep 2006 06:32:01 PM |
|
|
"gatt" <LiveFromTheClocktower@gfy.com> wrote in message
news:iI2Kg.292$za1.205@news02.roc.ny...
"Curt" <cje@hevanet.com> wrote in message
news:12fha76es4ed4e5@corp.supernews.com...
Freedom to Choose
[ A former self-identified homosexual defends the right to change one's
sexual identity. ]
Are there people who wouldn't defend that right? Name one.
Didn't you know?! The instant you change your sexual identity, the
Gestapo
shows up at your door and labels you as a freak and a mentally-ill
defect...
...oh, wait. That's not the Gestapo, that's the Fundies, aka "Closet
Crusaders"
Hard to tell the difference, seeing as they all have boot and gun fetishes.
Curt
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "enquiring minds" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
02 Sep 2006 06:47:28 AM |
|
|
[ A former self-identified homosexual defends the right to change one's
sexual identity. ]
In western society one can have any sexual identity one wants.
The on-going controversy surrounding Focus on the Family's Love Won Out
conference reveals the hypocrisy of liberals who call for "tolerance" and
unquestioned acceptance of "diversity" yet attempt to stifle all opposing
views to their politically correct, pro-gay agenda. As a result, another
liberal mantra - the freedom to choose - is denied to those seeking to walk
out of unwanted homosexuality.
Anyone who does not want to indulge in homosexuality or heterosexuality
can
stop, change or be celibate.
Even more troubling is the vitriol unleashed against those who dare to
consider the notion that homosexuality is not an immutable characteristic.
Anyone can make homosexuality or heterosexuality whatever they want to
make it in
western society.
Pro-gay activists regularly charge that messages such as those shared at
Love Won Out are "vile," "dangerous" and "deplorable." Much of their most
virulent rhetoric is saved for the debate over the cause of homosexuality.
Nobody knows why anyone is attracted to anyone else be they homosexual
or heterosexual
attractions.
At best, the evidence for a genetic basis to homosexuality is inconclusive.
Even the authors of the recent pheromone and fruit fly studies urge caution
in interpreting their work as "proof" of inevitable homosexual behavior
based on biological or genetic circumstances.
Nobody know why homosexuals or heterosexuals act they way they do. Why
are drag queens or
very effeminate men they way they are? Why are heterosexual men who are
always angry,
hate women and want to beat women up the way they are?
Indeed, the current consensus in the scientific community - even the
left-leaning American Psychological Association - is that homosexuality is
likely caused by a complex interaction of biological, psychological, and
social/environmental factors.
It is doubtful anyone would disagree with the scientists or people in
general that
what makes anyone a homosexual or a heterosexual is very complex.
While many homosexuals have come to the conclusion that they were "born
gay," there exists a surprising and not insignificant minority of gays and
lesbians who recognize that sexual orientation is, in fact, quite
changeable.
Lots of homosexuals and heterosexuals change back and forth. Lots of
homosexuals have married
women for money, immigration, benefit family estates, preserve family
reputation within the
community. Lots of heterosexuals have indulged in homosexuality as a
matter of convenience
for a sexual purpose, for money, for immigration, for employment, or
inheritance or some other
personal gain.
For example, Kate Kendall, director of the National Center for Lesbian
Rights, argues in the gay magazine Frontiers that sexual orientation is not
fixed. Lesbian author Camille Paglia argues that homosexuality is not normal
and that it is an adaptation - not an inborn trait.
Nobody would disagree that homosexuality is not normal anyone than
killing another person
is not normal, nor is marrying a women for her money, marrying a man for
his money, marrying
anyone for immigration purposes. Heterosexual men who beat their wives
is not normal.
Apparently, the reality that people can change their sexual identity isn't
just a right-wing Christian thing.
Anybody can change their sexual identity and if more heterosexuals
changed their sexual
identity to homosexuality they would have a much great understanding and
appreciation
how difficult it would be to have sex with a women whom a particular
homosexual male is
not attracted to in the same way that a male heterosexual who changed
his identity did
when he changed his sexual identity to that of a homosexual and indulged
in anal or oral
sex either passively or actively and did lots of erotic kissing of
another male.
While no one knows for sure what causes homosexuality, recent research
confirms that permanent change is indeed possible.
Yes, permanent change from heterosexuality to homosexuality and from
homosexuality to heterosexuality is
possible, but the loss is never to the person who changes, the loss is
100 percent to the person who marries them or lives with them or has a
relationship or children with them. There is no better description of
the word B I T T E R than a person who falls in love with a homosexual
or heterosexual, marries and has or adopts children and reaches the nice
age of 45 after a number of years of marriage with or without children
and then the other person informs them they are leaving the marriage and
or the marriage and children to explore their homosexuality or
heterosexuality. As I said the person being left is very, very bitter
as they try to pick up the pieces and look for another life partner at
45 years of age.
Pro-gay ally Dr. Robert
Spitzer of Columbia University is now convinced that many homosexuals have
successfully changed their sexual orientation. In 2001, he published results
from a five-year study of 200 gay men and lesbians who had sought
"re-orientation" therapy. Spitzer found that most have been able to achieve
fulfilling heterosexual relationships.
I am not sure what a fulfilling heterosexual relationship is in view of
the fact that 45 percent of all
marriages end in divorce. But I would think that any homosexual who
marries a woman and is accept by the church, society, the employment
world at large, the family and extended family would be the great gift
any human being could receive. What may be less fulfilling for the
homosexual is missing the smell, feel and
look of a male love making partner, not that he can't fantasize about
having sex with a male when he make love to his wife as heterosexuals do
when they are having sex with a male in prison or other work environment
where
women are temporarily unavailable, but after 20 or 30 years of missing
the love you desire in the way you desire it can put pressure on some
individuals.
While his research shows that such change often involves a difficult and
long journey, it is nevertheless possible for highly motivated individuals.
There is no greater reason for any individual to be a highly motivated
individual
homosexual male to marry a woman than a large inheritance, marrying a
wealthy woman,
family, community and church acceptance and people do it all the time,
but what
often happens is that they become unhappy living a lie after a lengthy
period of time
or feel more comfortable having sex outside of the marriage with a
secret male partner.
Some portions of society feel that the foundation of any marriage or
relationship is
honesty but some others feel that getting whatever you can out of life
that is a
personal benefit should be done at any cost to themselves, others, God
and the world
at large. Only time will tell who is right.
Clearly, pro-gay activists aren't dealing with all the evidence in their
insistence that people are born gay and cannot change. In presenting an
orthodox Christian viewpoint on this complex topic, Love Won Out educates
attendees on the issues and provides hope to those who seek change in their
sexual identity and to those whose loved ones are gay-identified. In
presenting the truth about homosexuality with compassion, the conference
message is centered in the redemptive and restorative love of Jesus for all
people - gay and straight.
Everyone knows that Jesus and God love everyone whether they be
criminals, pedophiles,
heterosexuals or homosexuals. But unfortunately some portions of
society say that
if one is a homosexual then they are not welcomed in certain parts of
the community or certain
parts of the religious community. But that is never God's or Jesus'
feeling or position.
In America we are blessed with the freedom to make choices about how we
define ourselves while stewarding our sexuality as we see fit. If people
want to change their sexual identity, it is their right to choose.
Millions of people identify sexually how they want to identify sexually
but not all of those
people make decisions on honesty but instead make their sexual identity
on acceptance. Individuals
who live alone are no problem to anyone how they sexually identify.
The only problem with how
a person sexually identifies is when they take up partnership with
somebody else by way of
common-law, dating, shacked up, marriage and any of these arrangements
that also include children.
If and when at any point in their life they decide to identify sexually
with honesty instead of
acceptance and they act on their true feelings as a homosexual, their
heterosexual partner feels
betrayed, cheated, lonely, and abandoned. Add children to the mix and
it gets even worse. But again
it should be repeated any homosexual or heterosexual has the right to
sexually identify any way they
wish for one day, one week, one year, 30 years, 60 years or a lifetime,
but they also have the right
on any given day to change how the sexually identify, too, which can
have lots of serious and hurtful
repercussions depending on the circumstances.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "L. Michael Roberts" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
02 Sep 2006 04:12:52 PM |
|
|
Mr. Young wrote:
<snip>
[ A former self-identified homosexual defends the right to change one's
sexual identity. ]
The on-going controversy surrounding Focus on the Family's Love Won Out
conference reveals the hypocrisy of
those who claim "reparitive therapy" works, without detailing the
methodology, presenting any scientific studies of the results or
allowing any outside peer review of their methodology and data.
<snip>
--
+========= L. Michael Roberts - Goderich, Ontario, Canada ===========+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
To reply, post a request for my valid E-mail or your public PGP key
"Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal, condition"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Dionisio" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
01 Sep 2006 08:56:59 PM |
|
|
Mr. Young wrote:
Even more troubling is the vitriol unleashed against those who dare to
consider the notion that homosexuality is not an immutable characteristic.
"How DARE those folks point out the nonexistent research which proves
our position! The nerve!"
Spin another one, Patsy.
While many homosexuals have come to the conclusion that they were "born
gay," there exists a surprising and not insignificant minority of gays and
lesbians who recognize that sexual orientation is, in fact, quite
changeable.
And then, when their money runs out...
Oops.
--
"If Christians want us to believe in a Redeemer, let them act redeemed."
--Voltaire
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
02 Sep 2006 05:47:57 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:39:08 -0400, Mr. Young wrote:
The on-going controversy surrounding Focus on the Family's Love Won Out
conference reveals the hypocrisy of liberals who call for "tolerance"
and unquestioned acceptance of "diversity" yet attempt to stifle all
opposing views to their politically correct, pro-gay agenda.
Wrong.
"Reparative therapy" is known to be quackery. Any therapist that
"practices" it should have their licences revoked before they do any more
damage. Such as:
"No peer-reviewed study has ever been published on reparative therapy. No
longitudinal study has ever been conducted into its long-term
effectiveness and hazards. Sufficient anecdotal evidence has surfaced to
convince the large mental health professional societies, like the American
Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, American
Academy of Pediatrics, etc. to condemn reparative therapy as ineffective,
and warn of potentially dangerous side-effects."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_nart.htm
It is wrong to practice quackery on people. It is, at best, a waste of
their time and money, at worst it is psychologically damaging.
By the way, Joseph Nicolosi who coined the term "reparative therapy" has
admitted in an interview that not *one* patient of the therapy has stopped
having same sex feelings.
Not.
One.
By the way, if orientation is a "choice," why do you need therapy to begin
with? Can't you just choose?
It's all drivel. So there exist bisexuals who can "switch" between the two
sides of their orientations. Big whoopee. That's been know for years and
years now...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "robpar" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
02 Sep 2006 05:14:52 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:39:08 -0400, "Mr. Young"
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
In America we are blessed with the freedom to make choices about how we
define ourselves while stewarding our sexuality as we see fit. If people
want to change their sexual identity, it is their right to choose.
And Pro-choice defends that right, you anti gay folks would
happily force gays to change. A self righteous bigot that
claims to have been gay and changed. Has no validity to
those of us used to Christians lies. Just like the liars
that claim to be former atheist.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
02 Sep 2006 05:37:37 PM |
|
|
"robpar" <robpar@netportusa.com> wrote in message
news:6a0kf2lbdeb87sa6knlccjr02l5c85os6r@4ax.com...
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:39:08 -0400, "Mr. Young"
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
In America we are blessed with the freedom to make choices about how we
define ourselves while stewarding our sexuality as we see fit. If people
want to change their sexual identity, it is their right to choose.
And Pro-choice defends that right, you anti gay folks would
happily force gays to change. A self righteous bigot that
claims to have been gay and changed. Has no validity to
those of us used to Christians lies. Just like the liars
that claim to be former atheist.
So what do you think aboutthose self righteous bigoted anti-religious folks
who would happily force familys to have to change their religious practices
in their own homes?
For example:
Atilla and Barnes thinks that parents who practice their religious beliefs
at home in front of their children, are abusing their children and the
practice should be stopped and outlawed.
Example: Many families say a prayer before they eat a meal.
Self righteous, bigoted, anti-religious folks like the two I mentioned above
would force them to stop this. Even though they are doing this in their own
home.
It's a good thing this would never happen, but it's scary thinking there are
people that actually think like these two in this world.
And I also noticed, they only attack christian families. They haven't said
anything about other religious families, such as Muslim families.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jaye Elk" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
03 Sep 2006 01:34:26 PM |
|
|
"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:H-qdnSG57LYpmmfZnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@comcast.com...
"robpar" <robpar@netportusa.com> wrote in message
news:6a0kf2lbdeb87sa6knlccjr02l5c85os6r@4ax.com...
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:39:08 -0400, "Mr. Young"
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
In America we are blessed with the freedom to make choices about how we
define ourselves while stewarding our sexuality as we see fit. If people
want to change their sexual identity, it is their right to choose.
And Pro-choice defends that right, you anti gay folks would
happily force gays to change. A self righteous bigot that
claims to have been gay and changed. Has no validity to
those of us used to Christians lies. Just like the liars
that claim to be former atheist.
So what do you think aboutthose self righteous bigoted anti-religious
folks who would happily force familys to have to change their religious
practices in their own homes?
For example:
Atilla and Barnes thinks that parents who practice their religious beliefs
at home in front of their children, are abusing their children and the
practice should be stopped and outlawed.
Example: Many families say a prayer before they eat a meal.
Self righteous, bigoted, anti-religious folks like the two I mentioned
above would force them to stop this. Even though they are doing this in
their own home.
It's a good thing this would never happen, but it's scary thinking there
are people that actually think like these two in this world.
And I also noticed, they only attack christian families. They haven't
said anything about other religious families, such as Muslim families.
The christian right are the problem, not the muslims.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "David W. Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
02 Sep 2006 09:31:00 PM |
|
|
In article <H-qdnSG57LYpmmfZnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@comcast.com>, Osprey
<noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
"robpar" <robpar@netportusa.com> wrote in message
news:6a0kf2lbdeb87sa6knlccjr02l5c85os6r@4ax.com...
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:39:08 -0400, "Mr. Young"
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
In America we are blessed with the freedom to make choices about how we
define ourselves while stewarding our sexuality as we see fit. If people
want to change their sexual identity, it is their right to choose.
And Pro-choice defends that right, you anti gay folks would
happily force gays to change. A self righteous bigot that
claims to have been gay and changed. Has no validity to
those of us used to Christians lies. Just like the liars
that claim to be former atheist.
So what do you think aboutthose self righteous bigoted anti-religious folks
who would happily force familys to have to change their religious practices
in their own homes?
Osprey the bigot.
For example:
Atilla and Barnes thinks that parents who practice their religious beliefs
at home in front of their children, are abusing their children and the
practice should be stopped and outlawed.
I never said that, you lying piece of *****.
Example: Many families say a prayer before they eat a meal.
Big deal. You lying again.
Self righteous, bigoted, anti-religious folks like the two I mentioned above
would force them to stop this. Even though they are doing this in their own
home.
LOL!!!!! I never said that and don't support that idea. Once again
Osprey lies his ***** off.
It's a good thing this would never happen, but it's scary thinking there are
people that actually think like these two in this world.
Its scary to think that someone who "claims" to have attended college,
albeit, Wilmington College, is so poor in reading comprehension.
And I also noticed, they only attack christian families. They haven't said
anything about other religious families, such as Muslim families.
I have said religion is the "root of all evil." Are you really so
stupid?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "LC" |
|
| Title: Re: Freedom to Choose |
01 Sep 2006 02:12:57 PM |
|
|
Umlaut-boy "Mr. Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:cbOdneZGuuo142XZnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
I do not necessarily agree with the opinions of the author
Quit lying, IBen.
You ALWAYS spam with sources mirroring your own rightard lunacy.
but I share them as a service to all.
If you really want to perform "a service to all", you'll sell your computer.
<J/IBen's fundy propaganda dumped>
LC~ Better yet, he should perform "a service to all" and kill himself.
"You seem to spend alot of time,thought,and energy thinking about and
writing about homosexuals. I wonder..........?????"
From: (Jon Young), projecting.
Subject: Re: There is no such thing as a Christian homosexual
Date: 31 Jan 2004 12:59:16 -0800
Message-ID:
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
