| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JaBrIoL" |
| Date: |
18 Nov 2003 09:36:10 AM |
| Object: |
Friends, family remember father and son |
Most of You have probly read Carol news about a JW elder, that went
Bad. As with people everywhere. She then claims that all JW are
Pedophile or worse. Her intent is to sling mud on JW's in general, so
she hunts negative news about JW's. She make it seems that all JW's
are evil people to be avoided. Well I guess it is her word aganst a
whole community, who ahs a different view about JW's.
I am sure the following Newsreport will make her jump with joy..
How about you? (the usenet readers)
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/11_15_03howardsmemorial.html
Friends, family remember father and son who
perished in boating accident. A glance around the auditorium left no
doubt about what Randy and Joshua Howard meant to those who knew them.
Roughly 800 people packed the Ironwood Ridge High School Auditorium,
2475 W. Naranja Drive, this afternoon to remember the father and son
believed to have died during a tragic fishing trip in the Gulf of
California. The Howards and three friends from a local Jehovah's
Witnesses church set out from Rocky Point Oct. 25 for a trek across
the gulf. A week later 21-year-old Joshua Howard's body was found in
the gulf, but the search ended Nov. 5 without finding a trace of the
others. Wally Pennick, a church elder, led the service. "They were
both the kind of people who walked into a room and lit it up," Pennick
said. Randy Howard, 47, had a reputation as an intense "people person"
who would go far out of his way to help a friend. Rick Eckhoff, Randy
Howard's best friend since high school, remembered his friend's
outgoing nature. "We'd never go camping without meeting everyone
camping around us," Eckhoff said. Pennick spoke of how when he was in
the hospital, Randy Howard visited him, bringing a teddy bear. Pennick
grudgingly admits to having a soft spot for those stuffed animals but
said he was surprised Randy knew. Kent Sebring, who drove freight
trains with Randy Howard for 25 years, remembered his co-worker as a
person "who would do anything for his friends." Eckhoff was on the
Rocky Point vacation but did not go fishing because he said "he is not
a fisherman." Distaste for the sport saved his life but he remains
stunned about what happened to Randy, Joshua and the three other
fishermen on the trip. "We were there having a relaxing vacation and
then we ran into a nightmare," Eckhoff said. Howard met his future
wife, Sheryl, in 1974 when they were both teenagers. They married in
1979 in Phoenix but moved to Tucson's Northwest Side and raised their
sons Joshua and Michael. Joshua Howard "was more like Randy than Randy
was like himself," Pennick said. Eckhoff's niece, Aubrei remembers how
she grew up taking frequent vacations with Josh and his family and how
Josh used to fuss about his four-wheel ATV. She said Josh Howard had
just begun dating a girl he'd known for years. His parents hadn't let
him date until they felt he was mature enough. Josh was crazy about
his girlfriend, 18-year-old Sarah Cox, those close to him said. "They
weren't engaged but it was kind of a known fact that they were going
to get married," Aubrei said. "They've liked each other for so long."
Josh Howard and Cox spent their last few days together in the gulf
snorkeling and wearing near identical wet suits, Aubrei said. Cox
didn't go on the fishing trip either. Father and son were active in
their church, with Randy serving in the ministry. Joshua Howard
graduated from Mountain View High School in 2001 and attended the
University of Arizona. He hoped to be an architect and use his
computer-assisted drafting skills to help the congregation design
houses of worship. Services for the other missing boaters have been
scheduled for this week at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses,
5643 E. Lee St. Daryl Holland, a 42-year-old computer programmer, will
be memorialized Friday. Services will be held 1 p.m. Saturday for Carl
Hopper, a 42-year-old house painter, and will be followed at 3 p.m.
for a final service for 47-year-old contractor Mark Brinke.
.
|
|
| User: "Volodymyr Danishevskiy" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
18 Nov 2003 02:38:01 PM |
|
|
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d222de3e.0311180736.b1b0331@posting.google.com...
Most of You have probly read Carol news about a JW elder, that went
Bad. As with people everywhere. She then claims that all JW are
Pedophile or worse. Her intent is to sling mud on JW's in general, so
she hunts negative news about JW's. She make it seems that all JW's
are evil people to be avoided. Well I guess it is her word aganst a
whole community, who ahs a different view about JW's.
Nobody here is saying that all JW's are pedophile.But Jehovah's Witnesses
claim that representatives of their church are only one in the modern world
who are truly righteous in comparison to other churches of "Christian
world",however the reallity shows that members of JW's are not righteous
"lambs" as they say, news show that such amoral things like pedophilia or
even murder(as some claim) are present
among their congregations worldwide,and it becomes a matter of deep
concern,because of the way organization tackles this problem: supposed
victims are being disfellowshiped or excomunicated even if future
investigation unveils facts of such abuses among congregation's members (
for reference click here:
http://www.reformation.com/CSA/JWexcommunication.htm or
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2123546.stm,
http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0217/news-anderson.php - about
frequency of child abuse among other relious groups )
I am sure the following Newsreport will make her jump with joy..
How about you? (the usenet readers)
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/11_15_03howardsmemorial.html
Friends, family remember father and son who
perished in boating accident. A glance around the auditorium left no
doubt about what Randy and Joshua Howard meant to those who knew them.
Roughly 800 people packed the Ironwood Ridge High School Auditorium,
2475 W. Naranja Drive, this afternoon to remember the father and son
believed to have died during a tragic fishing trip in the Gulf of
California. The Howards and three friends from a local Jehovah's
Witnesses church set out from Rocky Point Oct. 25 for a trek across
the gulf. A week later 21-year-old Joshua Howard's body was found in
the gulf, but the search ended Nov. 5 without finding a trace of the
others. Wally Pennick, a church elder, led the service. "They were
both the kind of people who walked into a room and lit it up," Pennick
said. Randy Howard, 47, had a reputation as an intense "people person"
who would go far out of his way to help a friend. Rick Eckhoff, Randy
Howard's best friend since high school, remembered his friend's
outgoing nature. "We'd never go camping without meeting everyone
camping around us," Eckhoff said. Pennick spoke of how when he was in
the hospital, Randy Howard visited him, bringing a teddy bear. Pennick
grudgingly admits to having a soft spot for those stuffed animals but
said he was surprised Randy knew. Kent Sebring, who drove freight
trains with Randy Howard for 25 years, remembered his co-worker as a
person "who would do anything for his friends." Eckhoff was on the
Rocky Point vacation but did not go fishing because he said "he is not
a fisherman." Distaste for the sport saved his life but he remains
stunned about what happened to Randy, Joshua and the three other
fishermen on the trip. "We were there having a relaxing vacation and
then we ran into a nightmare," Eckhoff said. Howard met his future
wife, Sheryl, in 1974 when they were both teenagers. They married in
1979 in Phoenix but moved to Tucson's Northwest Side and raised their
sons Joshua and Michael. Joshua Howard "was more like Randy than Randy
was like himself," Pennick said. Eckhoff's niece, Aubrei remembers how
she grew up taking frequent vacations with Josh and his family and how
Josh used to fuss about his four-wheel ATV. She said Josh Howard had
just begun dating a girl he'd known for years. His parents hadn't let
him date until they felt he was mature enough. Josh was crazy about
his girlfriend, 18-year-old Sarah Cox, those close to him said. "They
weren't engaged but it was kind of a known fact that they were going
to get married," Aubrei said. "They've liked each other for so long."
Josh Howard and Cox spent their last few days together in the gulf
snorkeling and wearing near identical wet suits, Aubrei said. Cox
didn't go on the fishing trip either. Father and son were active in
their church, with Randy serving in the ministry. Joshua Howard
graduated from Mountain View High School in 2001 and attended the
University of Arizona. He hoped to be an architect and use his
computer-assisted drafting skills to help the congregation design
houses of worship. Services for the other missing boaters have been
scheduled for this week at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses,
5643 E. Lee St. Daryl Holland, a 42-year-old computer programmer, will
be memorialized Friday. Services will be held 1 p.m. Saturday for Carl
Hopper, a 42-year-old house painter, and will be followed at 3 p.m.
for a final service for 47-year-old contractor Mark Brinke.
.
|
|
|
| User: "L Perez" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
18 Nov 2003 05:57:23 PM |
|
|
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpdvlk$bbk$1@online.de...
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d222de3e.0311180736.b1b0331@posting.google.com...
Most of You have probly read Carol news about a JW elder, that went
Bad. As with people everywhere. She then claims that all JW are
Pedophile or worse. Her intent is to sling mud on JW's in general, so
she hunts negative news about JW's. She make it seems that all JW's
are evil people to be avoided. Well I guess it is her word aganst a
whole community, who ahs a different view about JW's.
Nobody here is saying that all JW's are pedophile.But Jehovah's Witnesses
claim that representatives of their church are only one in the modern
world
who are truly righteous in comparison to other churches of "Christian
world",however the reallity shows that members of JW's are not righteous
"lambs" as they say, news show that such amoral things like pedophilia
the simple fact is that a person can hide a double-life for many years and
though it takes quite some time before one is accepted to baptism, it *is*
still possible for them to hide wicked behavior. However, usually their
duplicitousness is revealed and when it is they are disfellowshipped. One
can *not* be a member of Christ's one flock if they are willfully practising
wickedness! That 0.000000000001% of those who become baptised are discovered
as leading double lives and subsequently disfellowshipped is not surprising.
That they manage to conceal their double lives for a long period of time
is... of course, if these people belonged to any other organization they
would never be disfellowshipped. Some religions even allow their *ministers*
to engage in sexual perversions and even reward them! Perhaps it would be
more appropriate to critisize those?
I am sure the following Newsreport will make her jump with joy..
How about you? (the usenet readers)
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/11_15_03howardsmemorial.html
Friends, family remember father and son who
perished in boating accident. A glance around the auditorium left no
doubt about what Randy and Joshua Howard meant to those who knew them.
Roughly 800 people packed the Ironwood Ridge High School Auditorium,
2475 W. Naranja Drive, this afternoon to remember the father and son
believed to have died during a tragic fishing trip in the Gulf of
California. The Howards and three friends from a local Jehovah's
Witnesses church set out from Rocky Point Oct. 25 for a trek across
the gulf. A week later 21-year-old Joshua Howard's body was found in
the gulf, but the search ended Nov. 5 without finding a trace of the
others. Wally Pennick, a church elder, led the service. "They were
both the kind of people who walked into a room and lit it up," Pennick
said. Randy Howard, 47, had a reputation as an intense "people person"
who would go far out of his way to help a friend. Rick Eckhoff, Randy
Howard's best friend since high school, remembered his friend's
outgoing nature. "We'd never go camping without meeting everyone
camping around us," Eckhoff said. Pennick spoke of how when he was in
the hospital, Randy Howard visited him, bringing a teddy bear. Pennick
grudgingly admits to having a soft spot for those stuffed animals but
said he was surprised Randy knew. Kent Sebring, who drove freight
trains with Randy Howard for 25 years, remembered his co-worker as a
person "who would do anything for his friends." Eckhoff was on the
Rocky Point vacation but did not go fishing because he said "he is not
a fisherman." Distaste for the sport saved his life but he remains
stunned about what happened to Randy, Joshua and the three other
fishermen on the trip. "We were there having a relaxing vacation and
then we ran into a nightmare," Eckhoff said. Howard met his future
wife, Sheryl, in 1974 when they were both teenagers. They married in
1979 in Phoenix but moved to Tucson's Northwest Side and raised their
sons Joshua and Michael. Joshua Howard "was more like Randy than Randy
was like himself," Pennick said. Eckhoff's niece, Aubrei remembers how
she grew up taking frequent vacations with Josh and his family and how
Josh used to fuss about his four-wheel ATV. She said Josh Howard had
just begun dating a girl he'd known for years. His parents hadn't let
him date until they felt he was mature enough. Josh was crazy about
his girlfriend, 18-year-old Sarah Cox, those close to him said. "They
weren't engaged but it was kind of a known fact that they were going
to get married," Aubrei said. "They've liked each other for so long."
Josh Howard and Cox spent their last few days together in the gulf
snorkeling and wearing near identical wet suits, Aubrei said. Cox
didn't go on the fishing trip either. Father and son were active in
their church, with Randy serving in the ministry. Joshua Howard
graduated from Mountain View High School in 2001 and attended the
University of Arizona. He hoped to be an architect and use his
computer-assisted drafting skills to help the congregation design
houses of worship. Services for the other missing boaters have been
scheduled for this week at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses,
5643 E. Lee St. Daryl Holland, a 42-year-old computer programmer, will
be memorialized Friday. Services will be held 1 p.m. Saturday for Carl
Hopper, a 42-year-old house painter, and will be followed at 3 p.m.
for a final service for 47-year-old contractor Mark Brinke.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Volodymyr Danishevskiy" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
19 Nov 2003 10:28:57 AM |
|
|
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:OcednTWNWvZ7LCei4p2dnA@comcast.com...
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpdvlk$bbk$1@online.de...
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d222de3e.0311180736.b1b0331@posting.google.com...
Most of You have probly read Carol news about a JW elder, that went
Bad. As with people everywhere. She then claims that all JW are
Pedophile or worse. Her intent is to sling mud on JW's in general, so
she hunts negative news about JW's. She make it seems that all JW's
are evil people to be avoided. Well I guess it is her word aganst a
whole community, who ahs a different view about JW's.
Nobody here is saying that all JW's are pedophile.But Jehovah's
Witnesses
claim that representatives of their church are only one in the modern
world
who are truly righteous in comparison to other churches of "Christian
world",however the reallity shows that members of JW's are not
righteous
"lambs" as they say, news show that such amoral things like pedophilia
. Some religions even allow their *ministers*
to engage in sexual perversions and even reward them! Perhaps it would be
more appropriate to critisize those?
Let me guess where did you read it?WatchTower,Awake! or other WTBS
publication?
I am sure the following Newsreport will make her jump with joy..
How about you? (the usenet readers)
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/11_15_03howardsmemorial.html
Friends, family remember father and son who
perished in boating accident. A glance around the auditorium left no
doubt about what Randy and Joshua Howard meant to those who knew them.
Roughly 800 people packed the Ironwood Ridge High School Auditorium,
2475 W. Naranja Drive, this afternoon to remember the father and son
believed to have died during a tragic fishing trip in the Gulf of
California. The Howards and three friends from a local Jehovah's
Witnesses church set out from Rocky Point Oct. 25 for a trek across
the gulf. A week later 21-year-old Joshua Howard's body was found in
the gulf, but the search ended Nov. 5 without finding a trace of the
others. Wally Pennick, a church elder, led the service. "They were
both the kind of people who walked into a room and lit it up," Pennick
said. Randy Howard, 47, had a reputation as an intense "people person"
who would go far out of his way to help a friend. Rick Eckhoff, Randy
Howard's best friend since high school, remembered his friend's
outgoing nature. "We'd never go camping without meeting everyone
camping around us," Eckhoff said. Pennick spoke of how when he was in
the hospital, Randy Howard visited him, bringing a teddy bear. Pennick
grudgingly admits to having a soft spot for those stuffed animals but
said he was surprised Randy knew. Kent Sebring, who drove freight
trains with Randy Howard for 25 years, remembered his co-worker as a
person "who would do anything for his friends." Eckhoff was on the
Rocky Point vacation but did not go fishing because he said "he is not
a fisherman." Distaste for the sport saved his life but he remains
stunned about what happened to Randy, Joshua and the three other
fishermen on the trip. "We were there having a relaxing vacation and
then we ran into a nightmare," Eckhoff said. Howard met his future
wife, Sheryl, in 1974 when they were both teenagers. They married in
1979 in Phoenix but moved to Tucson's Northwest Side and raised their
sons Joshua and Michael. Joshua Howard "was more like Randy than Randy
was like himself," Pennick said. Eckhoff's niece, Aubrei remembers how
she grew up taking frequent vacations with Josh and his family and how
Josh used to fuss about his four-wheel ATV. She said Josh Howard had
just begun dating a girl he'd known for years. His parents hadn't let
him date until they felt he was mature enough. Josh was crazy about
his girlfriend, 18-year-old Sarah Cox, those close to him said. "They
weren't engaged but it was kind of a known fact that they were going
to get married," Aubrei said. "They've liked each other for so long."
Josh Howard and Cox spent their last few days together in the gulf
snorkeling and wearing near identical wet suits, Aubrei said. Cox
didn't go on the fishing trip either. Father and son were active in
their church, with Randy serving in the ministry. Joshua Howard
graduated from Mountain View High School in 2001 and attended the
University of Arizona. He hoped to be an architect and use his
computer-assisted drafting skills to help the congregation design
houses of worship. Services for the other missing boaters have been
scheduled for this week at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses,
5643 E. Lee St. Daryl Holland, a 42-year-old computer programmer, will
be memorialized Friday. Services will be held 1 p.m. Saturday for Carl
Hopper, a 42-year-old house painter, and will be followed at 3 p.m.
for a final service for 47-year-old contractor Mark Brinke.
.
|
|
|
| User: "L Perez" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
19 Nov 2003 01:55:05 PM |
|
|
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpg5ef$q99$1@online.de...
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:OcednTWNWvZ7LCei4p2dnA@comcast.com...
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpdvlk$bbk$1@online.de...
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d222de3e.0311180736.b1b0331@posting.google.com...
Most of You have probly read Carol news about a JW elder, that went
Bad. As with people everywhere. She then claims that all JW are
Pedophile or worse. Her intent is to sling mud on JW's in general,
so
she hunts negative news about JW's. She make it seems that all JW's
are evil people to be avoided. Well I guess it is her word aganst a
whole community, who ahs a different view about JW's.
Nobody here is saying that all JW's are pedophile.But Jehovah's
Witnesses
claim that representatives of their church are only one in the modern
world
who are truly righteous in comparison to other churches of "Christian
world",however the reallity shows that members of JW's are not
righteous
"lambs" as they say, news show that such amoral things like pedophilia
. Some religions even allow their *ministers*
to engage in sexual perversions and even reward them! Perhaps it would
be
more appropriate to critisize those?
Let me guess where did you read it?WatchTower,Awake! or other WTBS
publication?
I guess you dont watch the news on TV?
pedophile priests being transferred to other cities
gay bishops... etc
I am sure the following Newsreport will make her jump with joy..
How about you? (the usenet readers)
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/11_15_03howardsmemorial.html
Friends, family remember father and son who
perished in boating accident. A glance around the auditorium left no
doubt about what Randy and Joshua Howard meant to those who knew
them.
Roughly 800 people packed the Ironwood Ridge High School Auditorium,
2475 W. Naranja Drive, this afternoon to remember the father and son
believed to have died during a tragic fishing trip in the Gulf of
California. The Howards and three friends from a local Jehovah's
Witnesses church set out from Rocky Point Oct. 25 for a trek across
the gulf. A week later 21-year-old Joshua Howard's body was found in
the gulf, but the search ended Nov. 5 without finding a trace of the
others. Wally Pennick, a church elder, led the service. "They were
both the kind of people who walked into a room and lit it up,"
Pennick
said. Randy Howard, 47, had a reputation as an intense "people
person"
who would go far out of his way to help a friend. Rick Eckhoff,
Randy
Howard's best friend since high school, remembered his friend's
outgoing nature. "We'd never go camping without meeting everyone
camping around us," Eckhoff said. Pennick spoke of how when he was
in
the hospital, Randy Howard visited him, bringing a teddy bear.
Pennick
grudgingly admits to having a soft spot for those stuffed animals
but
said he was surprised Randy knew. Kent Sebring, who drove freight
trains with Randy Howard for 25 years, remembered his co-worker as a
person "who would do anything for his friends." Eckhoff was on the
Rocky Point vacation but did not go fishing because he said "he is
not
a fisherman." Distaste for the sport saved his life but he remains
stunned about what happened to Randy, Joshua and the three other
fishermen on the trip. "We were there having a relaxing vacation and
then we ran into a nightmare," Eckhoff said. Howard met his future
wife, Sheryl, in 1974 when they were both teenagers. They married in
1979 in Phoenix but moved to Tucson's Northwest Side and raised
their
sons Joshua and Michael. Joshua Howard "was more like Randy than
Randy
was like himself," Pennick said. Eckhoff's niece, Aubrei remembers
how
she grew up taking frequent vacations with Josh and his family and
how
Josh used to fuss about his four-wheel ATV. She said Josh Howard had
just begun dating a girl he'd known for years. His parents hadn't
let
him date until they felt he was mature enough. Josh was crazy about
his girlfriend, 18-year-old Sarah Cox, those close to him said.
"They
weren't engaged but it was kind of a known fact that they were going
to get married," Aubrei said. "They've liked each other for so
long."
Josh Howard and Cox spent their last few days together in the gulf
snorkeling and wearing near identical wet suits, Aubrei said. Cox
didn't go on the fishing trip either. Father and son were active in
their church, with Randy serving in the ministry. Joshua Howard
graduated from Mountain View High School in 2001 and attended the
University of Arizona. He hoped to be an architect and use his
computer-assisted drafting skills to help the congregation design
houses of worship. Services for the other missing boaters have been
scheduled for this week at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses,
5643 E. Lee St. Daryl Holland, a 42-year-old computer programmer,
will
be memorialized Friday. Services will be held 1 p.m. Saturday for
Carl
Hopper, a 42-year-old house painter, and will be followed at 3 p.m.
for a final service for 47-year-old contractor Mark Brinke.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Volodymyr Danishevskiy" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
20 Nov 2003 04:51:11 PM |
|
|
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:8rCdndn-ooI8VyaiRVn-tg@comcast.com...
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpg5ef$q99$1@online.de...
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:OcednTWNWvZ7LCei4p2dnA@comcast.com...
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpdvlk$bbk$1@online.de...
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d222de3e.0311180736.b1b0331@posting.google.com...
Most of You have probly read Carol news about a JW elder, that
went
Bad. As with people everywhere. She then claims that all JW are
Pedophile or worse. Her intent is to sling mud on JW's in general,
so
she hunts negative news about JW's. She make it seems that all
JW's
are evil people to be avoided. Well I guess it is her word aganst
a
whole community, who ahs a different view about JW's.
Nobody here is saying that all JW's are pedophile.But Jehovah's
Witnesses
claim that representatives of their church are only one in the
modern
world
who are truly righteous in comparison to other churches of
"Christian
world",however the reallity shows that members of JW's are not
righteous
"lambs" as they say, news show that such amoral things like
pedophilia
. Some religions even allow their *ministers*
to engage in sexual perversions and even reward them! Perhaps it would
be
more appropriate to critisize those?
Let me guess where did you read it?WatchTower,Awake! or other WTBS
publication?
I guess you dont watch the news on TV?
pedophile priests being transferred to other cities
gay bishops... etc
Oh,just found on the net click here:
http://winnipeg.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=mb_brandon20031001
very interesting article about the "problem".
I am sure the following Newsreport will make her jump with joy..
How about you? (the usenet readers)
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/11_15_03howardsmemorial.html
Friends, family remember father and son
who
perished in boating accident. A glance around the auditorium left
no
doubt about what Randy and Joshua Howard meant to those who knew
them.
Roughly 800 people packed the Ironwood Ridge High School
Auditorium,
2475 W. Naranja Drive, this afternoon to remember the father and
son
believed to have died during a tragic fishing trip in the Gulf of
California. The Howards and three friends from a local Jehovah's
Witnesses church set out from Rocky Point Oct. 25 for a trek
across
the gulf. A week later 21-year-old Joshua Howard's body was found
in
the gulf, but the search ended Nov. 5 without finding a trace of
the
others. Wally Pennick, a church elder, led the service. "They were
both the kind of people who walked into a room and lit it up,"
Pennick
said. Randy Howard, 47, had a reputation as an intense "people
person"
who would go far out of his way to help a friend. Rick Eckhoff,
Randy
Howard's best friend since high school, remembered his friend's
outgoing nature. "We'd never go camping without meeting everyone
camping around us," Eckhoff said. Pennick spoke of how when he was
in
the hospital, Randy Howard visited him, bringing a teddy bear.
Pennick
grudgingly admits to having a soft spot for those stuffed animals
but
said he was surprised Randy knew. Kent Sebring, who drove freight
trains with Randy Howard for 25 years, remembered his co-worker as
a
person "who would do anything for his friends." Eckhoff was on the
Rocky Point vacation but did not go fishing because he said "he is
not
a fisherman." Distaste for the sport saved his life but he remains
stunned about what happened to Randy, Joshua and the three other
fishermen on the trip. "We were there having a relaxing vacation
and
then we ran into a nightmare," Eckhoff said. Howard met his future
wife, Sheryl, in 1974 when they were both teenagers. They married
in
1979 in Phoenix but moved to Tucson's Northwest Side and raised
their
sons Joshua and Michael. Joshua Howard "was more like Randy than
Randy
was like himself," Pennick said. Eckhoff's niece, Aubrei remembers
how
she grew up taking frequent vacations with Josh and his family and
how
Josh used to fuss about his four-wheel ATV. She said Josh Howard
had
just begun dating a girl he'd known for years. His parents hadn't
let
him date until they felt he was mature enough. Josh was crazy
about
his girlfriend, 18-year-old Sarah Cox, those close to him said.
"They
weren't engaged but it was kind of a known fact that they were
going
to get married," Aubrei said. "They've liked each other for so
long."
Josh Howard and Cox spent their last few days together in the gulf
snorkeling and wearing near identical wet suits, Aubrei said. Cox
didn't go on the fishing trip either. Father and son were active
in
their church, with Randy serving in the ministry. Joshua Howard
graduated from Mountain View High School in 2001 and attended the
University of Arizona. He hoped to be an architect and use his
computer-assisted drafting skills to help the congregation design
houses of worship. Services for the other missing boaters have
been
scheduled for this week at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's
Witnesses,
5643 E. Lee St. Daryl Holland, a 42-year-old computer programmer,
will
be memorialized Friday. Services will be held 1 p.m. Saturday for
Carl
Hopper, a 42-year-old house painter, and will be followed at 3
p.m.
for a final service for 47-year-old contractor Mark Brinke.
.
|
|
|
| User: "L Perez" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
20 Nov 2003 06:31:18 PM |
|
|
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpjg77$3qo$1@online.de...
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:8rCdndn-ooI8VyaiRVn-tg@comcast.com...
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpg5ef$q99$1@online.de...
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:OcednTWNWvZ7LCei4p2dnA@comcast.com...
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in
message
news:bpdvlk$bbk$1@online.de...
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d222de3e.0311180736.b1b0331@posting.google.com...
Most of You have probly read Carol news about a JW elder, that
went
Bad. As with people everywhere. She then claims that all JW are
Pedophile or worse. Her intent is to sling mud on JW's in
general,
so
she hunts negative news about JW's. She make it seems that all
JW's
are evil people to be avoided. Well I guess it is her word
aganst
a
whole community, who ahs a different view about JW's.
Nobody here is saying that all JW's are pedophile.But Jehovah's
Witnesses
claim that representatives of their church are only one in the
modern
world
who are truly righteous in comparison to other churches of
"Christian
world",however the reallity shows that members of JW's are not
righteous
"lambs" as they say, news show that such amoral things like
pedophilia
. Some religions even allow their *ministers*
to engage in sexual perversions and even reward them! Perhaps it
would
be
more appropriate to critisize those?
Let me guess where did you read it?WatchTower,Awake! or other WTBS
publication?
I guess you dont watch the news on TV?
pedophile priests being transferred to other cities
gay bishops... etc
Oh,just found on the net click here:
http://winnipeg.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=mb_brandon20031001
very interesting article about the "problem".
what problem? a 75 year old woman is accusing a 42 year old man of kissing
her breasts?!? you've gotta be kidding me!!!
.
|
|
|
| User: "~* Reel McKoi *~" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember - JW elder molests 75 year old woman..... |
20 Nov 2003 10:57:37 PM |
|
|
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PPSdnb8AbLhEwSCiRVn-vA@comcast.com...
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
Oh,just found on the net click here:
http://winnipeg.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=mb_brandon20031001
very interesting article about the "problem".
===================================
what problem? a 75 year old woman is accusing a 42 year old man of kissing
her breasts?!? you've gotta be kidding me!!!
* Go look at the website. A sex pervert doesn't just go after attractive
young women. There was a story on TV some time back about a serial rapist
and killer who preferred older women, some in their 80s. The Boston
Strangler raped and killed woman of all ages, including the elderly. Are
you going to claim YOU know what all sex perverts want, and what age victims
they go after?
--
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -= Isaac Asimov =-
===========================================
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "~* Reel McKoi *~" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember the JW elder pervert going on trial in Nov |
20 Nov 2003 10:59:54 PM |
|
|
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PPSdnb8AbLhEwSCiRVn-vA@comcast.com...
what problem? a 75 year old woman is accusing a 42 year old man of kissing
her breasts?!? you've gotta be kidding me!!!
====================================
Web Posted | Oct 1 2003 08:18 AM CDT
Man faces charges after sex assault at hospital
BRANDON - A 42 year-old Jehovah's Witness elder has been charged after a
senior citizen complained she was assaulted by a man pretending to be a
doctor at a Brandon hospital.
A 75-year-old woman entered Brandon Regional Hospital just over a year ago.
After years of caring for her invalid husband, the woman was depressed and
required a psychiatric assessment.
On the following Saturday, night a well-dressed stranger walked into her
room. The woman's daughter says the man introduced himself as a doctor.
"He told her to lie back and he checked her stomach. He pressed on her
stomach and then he opened up her nightgown and she said, 'I didn't know,
you know, what was really happening,'" she says.
The elderly woman told Brandon police the stranger kissed her breasts. When
he started to pull down his pants, she screamed at him to get out of her
room.
Gordon Edward Watson has been charged with sexual assault and personation.
The 42-year-old Jehovah's Witness elder is believed to have been at the
hospital on church business.
.. Daughter told not to tell anyone about incident .
Whatever the reason for his visit, the victim's daughter says they never
thought something like this could happen to their mother at a secure
facility. She says she was appalled when officials told her not to tell
anyone else.
"That's the first thing victims of sexual assault say, is 'please don't tell
anyone', for fear, for shame. 'Don't tell anyone,'" she says. "They just
told me not to tell my sister. It was a week later that we finally told my
dad. My mother was scared to tell him."
The woman says her mother also wasn't offered any counselling.
Health Authority CEO Carmel Olson can't talk specifically about this case,
but she says staff would only notify family about an assault if that's what
the victim wanted. As for follow-up care such as counselling, Olson says
there is no set procedure, but the health authority would offer all of its
resources to a patient who asked for support.
Olson says the region is always reviewing security procedures.
"We don't have a lot of incidents, so I would say it's fairly good," she
says. "We're probably not perfect."
Gordon Watson's trial starts at the beginning of November.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Volodymyr Danishevskiy" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
20 Nov 2003 04:38:00 PM |
|
|
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:8rCdndn-ooI8VyaiRVn-tg@comcast.com...
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpg5ef$q99$1@online.de...
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:OcednTWNWvZ7LCei4p2dnA@comcast.com...
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpdvlk$bbk$1@online.de...
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d222de3e.0311180736.b1b0331@posting.google.com...
Most of You have probly read Carol news about a JW elder, that
went
Bad. As with people everywhere. She then claims that all JW are
Pedophile or worse. Her intent is to sling mud on JW's in general,
so
she hunts negative news about JW's. She make it seems that all
JW's
are evil people to be avoided. Well I guess it is her word aganst
a
whole community, who ahs a different view about JW's.
Nobody here is saying that all JW's are pedophile.But Jehovah's
Witnesses
claim that representatives of their church are only one in the
modern
world
who are truly righteous in comparison to other churches of
"Christian
world",however the reallity shows that members of JW's are not
righteous
"lambs" as they say, news show that such amoral things like
pedophilia
. Some religions even allow their *ministers*
to engage in sexual perversions and even reward them! Perhaps it would
be
more appropriate to critisize those?
Let me guess where did you read it?WatchTower,Awake! or other WTBS
publication?
I guess you dont watch the news on TV?
pedophile priests being transferred to other cities
gay bishops... etc
Oh really?I watch TV and i surf in Internet.So what's the conclusion:JW's
are not better then the others if you want a confirmation of this fact watch
a TV or surf in Internet.I wonder that JW's feel victorious about their
religion and can't accept critics as other churches of "Christian World"
do,it seems that a certain problem stabs the faithfull and descreet slave
and its
affilates from inside.We all know that some JW's are pedophille but what
they do?
How do they tackle such cases?"World's answer": set
up a trial against alleged abuser, openly investigate the case and make
appropriate deccission. in order to put an individual behind bars or let
him/her go
JW answer:to excomunicate victim and hold the case in secrecy( at this point
WTBS has made a big mistake as we know that "Silent Lambs" are not always
silent) and/or to investigate
the case and let "divine prosecution" take place
I am sure the following Newsreport will make her jump with joy..
How about you? (the usenet readers)
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/11_15_03howardsmemorial.html
Friends, family remember father and son
who
perished in boating accident. A glance around the auditorium left
no
doubt about what Randy and Joshua Howard meant to those who knew
them.
Roughly 800 people packed the Ironwood Ridge High School
Auditorium,
2475 W. Naranja Drive, this afternoon to remember the father and
son
believed to have died during a tragic fishing trip in the Gulf of
California. The Howards and three friends from a local Jehovah's
Witnesses church set out from Rocky Point Oct. 25 for a trek
across
the gulf. A week later 21-year-old Joshua Howard's body was found
in
the gulf, but the search ended Nov. 5 without finding a trace of
the
others. Wally Pennick, a church elder, led the service. "They were
both the kind of people who walked into a room and lit it up,"
Pennick
said. Randy Howard, 47, had a reputation as an intense "people
person"
who would go far out of his way to help a friend. Rick Eckhoff,
Randy
Howard's best friend since high school, remembered his friend's
outgoing nature. "We'd never go camping without meeting everyone
camping around us," Eckhoff said. Pennick spoke of how when he was
in
the hospital, Randy Howard visited him, bringing a teddy bear.
Pennick
grudgingly admits to having a soft spot for those stuffed animals
but
said he was surprised Randy knew. Kent Sebring, who drove freight
trains with Randy Howard for 25 years, remembered his co-worker as
a
person "who would do anything for his friends." Eckhoff was on the
Rocky Point vacation but did not go fishing because he said "he is
not
a fisherman." Distaste for the sport saved his life but he remains
stunned about what happened to Randy, Joshua and the three other
fishermen on the trip. "We were there having a relaxing vacation
and
then we ran into a nightmare," Eckhoff said. Howard met his future
wife, Sheryl, in 1974 when they were both teenagers. They married
in
1979 in Phoenix but moved to Tucson's Northwest Side and raised
their
sons Joshua and Michael. Joshua Howard "was more like Randy than
Randy
was like himself," Pennick said. Eckhoff's niece, Aubrei remembers
how
she grew up taking frequent vacations with Josh and his family and
how
Josh used to fuss about his four-wheel ATV. She said Josh Howard
had
just begun dating a girl he'd known for years. His parents hadn't
let
him date until they felt he was mature enough. Josh was crazy
about
his girlfriend, 18-year-old Sarah Cox, those close to him said.
"They
weren't engaged but it was kind of a known fact that they were
going
to get married," Aubrei said. "They've liked each other for so
long."
Josh Howard and Cox spent their last few days together in the gulf
snorkeling and wearing near identical wet suits, Aubrei said. Cox
didn't go on the fishing trip either. Father and son were active
in
their church, with Randy serving in the ministry. Joshua Howard
graduated from Mountain View High School in 2001 and attended the
University of Arizona. He hoped to be an architect and use his
computer-assisted drafting skills to help the congregation design
houses of worship. Services for the other missing boaters have
been
scheduled for this week at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's
Witnesses,
5643 E. Lee St. Daryl Holland, a 42-year-old computer programmer,
will
be memorialized Friday. Services will be held 1 p.m. Saturday for
Carl
Hopper, a 42-year-old house painter, and will be followed at 3
p.m.
for a final service for 47-year-old contractor Mark Brinke.
.
|
|
|
| User: "L Perez" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
20 Nov 2003 06:27:03 PM |
|
|
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpjfeg$s2e$1@online.de...
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:8rCdndn-ooI8VyaiRVn-tg@comcast.com...
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpg5ef$q99$1@online.de...
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:OcednTWNWvZ7LCei4p2dnA@comcast.com...
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in
message
news:bpdvlk$bbk$1@online.de...
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d222de3e.0311180736.b1b0331@posting.google.com...
Most of You have probly read Carol news about a JW elder, that
went
Bad. As with people everywhere. She then claims that all JW are
Pedophile or worse. Her intent is to sling mud on JW's in
general,
so
she hunts negative news about JW's. She make it seems that all
JW's
are evil people to be avoided. Well I guess it is her word
aganst
a
whole community, who ahs a different view about JW's.
Nobody here is saying that all JW's are pedophile.But Jehovah's
Witnesses
claim that representatives of their church are only one in the
modern
world
who are truly righteous in comparison to other churches of
"Christian
world",however the reallity shows that members of JW's are not
righteous
"lambs" as they say, news show that such amoral things like
pedophilia
. Some religions even allow their *ministers*
to engage in sexual perversions and even reward them! Perhaps it
would
be
more appropriate to critisize those?
Let me guess where did you read it?WatchTower,Awake! or other WTBS
publication?
I guess you dont watch the news on TV?
pedophile priests being transferred to other cities
gay bishops... etc
Oh really?I watch TV and i surf in Internet.So what's the conclusion:JW's
are not better then the others if you want a confirmation of this fact
watch
a TV or surf in Internet.I wonder that JW's feel victorious about their
religion and can't accept critics as other churches of "Christian World"
do,it seems that a certain problem stabs the faithfull and descreet slave
and its
affilates from inside.We all know that some JW's are pedophille but what
they do?
How do they tackle such cases?"World's answer": set
up a trial against alleged abuser, openly investigate the case and make
appropriate deccission. in order to put an individual behind bars or let
him/her go
JW answer:to excomunicate victim and hold the case in secrecy( at this
point
WTBS has made a big mistake as we know that "Silent Lambs" are not always
silent) and/or to investigate
the case and let "divine prosecution" take place
known pedophiles are kicked out (not hidden or covered up as the slanderers
claim) of God's organization <period>
Pedophile priests are transferred to another church in another city.
Sexually deviant priests are awarded the title of bishop... etc.
can you see the contrast?
.
|
|
|
| User: "~* Reel McKoi *~" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
20 Nov 2003 10:49:55 PM |
|
|
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8JKdnTi0ZfVExiCiRVn-jw@comcast.com...
known pedophiles are kicked out (not hidden or covered up as the
slanderers
claim) of God's organization <period>
# If it was truly god's org' there wouldn't be any pedophiles there to start
with.
Pedophile priests are transferred to another church in another city.
Sexually deviant priests are awarded the title of bishop... etc.
# They are? Why don't you ever show PROOF of the claims and false
accusations you make?
can you see the contrast?
# No, because the WTS HID their perverts/pedophiles until the kids started
coming forward and EXPOSING them. The WTS is no better than the RC church in
how they handled their sex perverts.
--
MiKrobez & Lilly Wytenpure....
1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that
they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and
suckling, ox and sheep, camel and *****. .... this is historically one of
THE FIRST GENOCIDES... commanded supposedly by the merciful GOD!!!!
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<((((0> ~~~~ }<{{{{ô> ~~~~ }<((((¤> ~~~~ }<{{{{Ò>
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "~* US & WE *~" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
24 Nov 2003 09:35:43 PM |
|
|
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8JKdnTi0ZfVExiCiRVn-jw@comcast.com...
known pedophiles are kicked out (not hidden or covered up as the
slanderers
claim) of God's organization <period>
$$ Visit the SILENT LAMBS website for the truth! The JW children were
often victimized TWICE. Once by the JW pedophile and again by the elders
when they spoke out about what he (or she) did to them. Face the truth L
Perez and stop trying to cover the FILTH in the KHs.
Pedophile priests are transferred to another church in another city.
Sexually deviant priests are awarded the title of bishop... etc.
can you see the contrast?
$$ While the Watchtower's Jehovah's Witness pedophiles were KEPT in place,
not moved anywhere, and the victims were told to "keep quiet" about the
abuse. Which is worse?
Can *you* see the contrast?
--
Ida Takenkash.....
"The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children
no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is
evident that the end of the world is fast approaching."
- Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC -
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
.
|
|
|
| User: "Me" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
25 Nov 2003 01:44:35 PM |
|
|
Yes, were promised that on, was it DATELINE? that we were going to see a
"shocking" expose!. The whole thing fell flat on it's face.
Interesting, if you will take time to watch a few episodes of the new TV
show FAKE, then go back and see if you can view the DATELINE film or SILENCE
OF THE LAMBS, I think you might be surprised as what you pick up as you
watch the body language of the participants.
"~* US & WE *~" <freedom@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:6c6dnYk6-ceNU1-iRVn-jw@heartoftn.net...
"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8JKdnTi0ZfVExiCiRVn-jw@comcast.com...
known pedophiles are kicked out (not hidden or covered up as the
slanderers
claim) of God's organization <period>
$$ Visit the SILENT LAMBS website for the truth! The JW children were
often victimized TWICE. Once by the JW pedophile and again by the elders
when they spoke out about what he (or she) did to them. Face the truth L
Perez and stop trying to cover the FILTH in the KHs.
Pedophile priests are transferred to another church in another city.
Sexually deviant priests are awarded the title of bishop... etc.
can you see the contrast?
$$ While the Watchtower's Jehovah's Witness pedophiles were KEPT in
place,
not moved anywhere, and the victims were told to "keep quiet" about the
abuse. Which is worse?
Can *you* see the contrast?
--
Ida Takenkash.....
"The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children
no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is
evident that the end of the world is fast approaching."
- Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC -
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
.
|
|
|
| User: "~* Me & Them *~" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
25 Nov 2003 11:33:18 PM |
|
|
"Me" <me@home.net> wrote in message
news:DiOwb.32597$m84.4526735@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Yes, were promised that on, was it DATELINE? that we were going to see a
"shocking" expose!. The whole thing fell flat on it's face.
$$ I haven't a clue about Dateline and the WTS's pedophiles. I do know
that the sexual abuse problem in the various religious orgs is OLD NEWS.
Most of these shows want new material, not the same old hash and eggs.
Interesting, if you will take time to watch a few episodes of the new TV
show FAKE, then go back and see if you can view the DATELINE film or
SILENCE
OF THE LAMBS, I think you might be surprised as what you pick up as you
watch the body language of the participants.
$$ Flake? I never heard of that show, and watch very little TV. Usually
the news, PBS and the nature channels. I have no idea what you're talking
about. Are you claiming the 23,000 JW pedophiles on the WTS list don't
really exist?
--
Me & Them.......
The Watchtower, January 15, 1983, p. 27
" Fight Against Independent Thinking . Yet there
are some who point out that the organization has
had to make adjustments before (1975 fiasco etc), and so they argue:
'This shows that we have to make up our own mind
on what to believe.' (Which all people should do.) This is (dangerous)
independent thinking.
Why is it so dangerous? Such thinking is an evidence of pride." (Not pride
but intelligence).
When JWs start to THINK for themselves and ask questions they end up leaving
the WTS.
==============================================================
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Barb Hoy" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
25 Nov 2003 04:44:59 PM |
|
|
"Me" <me@home.net> wrote in message
news:DiOwb.32597$m84.4526735@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Yes, were promised that on, was it DATELINE? that we were going to see a
"shocking" expose!. The whole thing fell flat on it's face.
you probably just missed it! the video for the show is no longer available
but here's a link to the transcript:
http://www.silentlambs.org/education/dateline_trans.cfm
and there is plenty of video and transcript documentation available at the
site referenced below:
http://www.silentlambs.org/education/multimedia.cfm
remember not to shoot the messenger!
Barb
.
|
|
|
| User: "~* Me & Them *~" |
|
| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father - and a RAPED JW child - JWs SHUN their raped children |
25 Nov 2003 11:46:25 PM |
|
|
"Barb Hoy" <barbhoy31@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:LXQwb.32678> you
probably just missed it! the video for the show is no longer available
but here's a link to the transcript:
http://www.silentlambs.org/education/dateline_trans.cfm
==========
From the site above:
Ms. E. GARZA: That's what I said. I said, `Or else what?' And he said, `Just
don't.' I said, `What? I'll be disfellowshipped if I take it to the police?
Is that what's going to happen to me?' And he said, `Yes. You will be
disfellowshipped.' And I was just, like, `What? You're going to
disfellowship me for being raped, yet they guy who raped me is still a
Jehovah's Witness?' And they said, `Don't. Don't take it to the police. You
will be condemned by God.'
LARSON: (Voiceover) It was October 1996, and Erica says she finally decided
whatever the penalty, she had to go to the police. Following an
investigation, Manuel Beliz was charged with molestation and rape.
And the church? Erica says her California Kingdom Hall not only shunned her,
but shunned her family as well.
==============>
So because the RAPED and ABUSED JW young lady took it to the police the JWs
SHUNNED her like a leper. What did she do wrong? She brought dishonor to
the WTS for telling the truth and perhaps saving another child from the same
JW pedophile/pervert. She was more proof these people are no more "god's
chosen" than any other group of people. The WTS are masters at playing the
Blame-The-Victim-Game. Why was she SHUNNED and the rapist protected? The
answer is to protect the false squeaky clean image the WTS demands the JWs
project at all times. The children don't matter.....
--
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -= Isaac Asimov =-
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| User: "Me" |
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| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father - and a RAPED JW child - JWs SHUN their raped children |
26 Nov 2003 08:17:10 PM |
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As I say watch FAKE on TV and get some pointers on telling by body language
who is
lying and then watch it again a couple of times. I think it will come
accross to you
very clearly if you are honest that there is a lot of lying in it.
I asked people out in the public about it, and they told me the same thing.
They were
embarrassed it was shown. They said it was so obvious to them they couldn't
imagine
a TV network putting it on.
"~* Me & Them *~" <noWTBS@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:fLydncWvN4ABo1miRVn-sw@heartoftn.net...
"Barb Hoy" <barbhoy31@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:LXQwb.32678> you
probably just missed it! the video for the show is no longer available
but here's a link to the transcript:
http://www.silentlambs.org/education/dateline_trans.cfm
==========
From the site above:
Ms. E. GARZA: That's what I said. I said, `Or else what?' And he said,
`Just
don't.' I said, `What? I'll be disfellowshipped if I take it to the
police?
Is that what's going to happen to me?' And he said, `Yes. You will be
disfellowshipped.' And I was just, like, `What? You're going to
disfellowship me for being raped, yet they guy who raped me is still a
Jehovah's Witness?' And they said, `Don't. Don't take it to the police.
You
will be condemned by God.'
LARSON: (Voiceover) It was October 1996, and Erica says she finally
decided
whatever the penalty, she had to go to the police. Following an
investigation, Manuel Beliz was charged with molestation and rape.
And the church? Erica says her California Kingdom Hall not only shunned
her,
but shunned her family as well.
==============>
So because the RAPED and ABUSED JW young lady took it to the police the
JWs
SHUNNED her like a leper. What did she do wrong? She brought dishonor to
the WTS for telling the truth and perhaps saving another child from the
same
JW pedophile/pervert. She was more proof these people are no more "god's
chosen" than any other group of people. The WTS are masters at playing
the
Blame-The-Victim-Game. Why was she SHUNNED and the rapist protected?
The
answer is to protect the false squeaky clean image the WTS demands the JWs
project at all times. The children don't matter.....
--
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -= Isaac Asimov =-
===========================================
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| User: " | " |
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| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father - and a RAPED JW child - JWs SHUN their raped children |
27 Nov 2003 01:28:00 AM |
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"Me" <me@home.net> wrote in message
news:G8dxb.34990$m84.4944940@news1.news.adelphia.net...
As I say watch FAKE on TV and get some pointers on telling by body
language
who is
lying and then watch it again a couple of times. I think it will come
accross to you
very clearly if you are honest that there is a lot of lying in it.
$$ So the JWs are now taught to BLAME-THE-VICTIM even in cases of sexual
abuse by their own elders and cong members? And to judge her/him using a TV
show no less? Anyone talking about a sexual attack is going to be
uncomfortable. Did they pass a polygraph test?
I asked people out in the public about it, and they told me the same
thing.
They were
embarrassed it was shown. They said it was so obvious to them they
couldn't
imagine
a TV network putting it on.
$$ I have no idea what show or sexually abused woman/child you're talking
about.
--
Me & Them.......
The Watchtower, January 15, 1983, p. 27
" Fight Against Independent Thinking . Yet there
are some who point out that the organization has
had to make adjustments before (1975 fiasco etc), and so they argue:
'This shows that we have to make up our own mind
on what to believe.' (Which all people should do.) This is (dangerous)
independent thinking.
Why is it so dangerous? Such thinking is an evidence of pride." (Not pride
but intelligence).
When JWs start to THINK for themselves and ask questions they end up leaving
the WTS.
==============================================================
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| User: "Me" |
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| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
26 Nov 2003 08:13:43 PM |
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Be sure and watch a few episodes of FAKE on TV and pick up some pointers and
then go back and watch them. Thanks for the citations. Why should I shoot
you?
"Barb Hoy" <barbhoy31@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:LXQwb.32678$m84.4574572@news1.news.adelphia.net...
"Me" <me@home.net> wrote in message
news:DiOwb.32597$m84.4526735@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Yes, were promised that on, was it DATELINE? that we were going to see a
"shocking" expose!. The whole thing fell flat on it's face.
you probably just missed it! the video for the show is no longer
available
but here's a link to the transcript:
http://www.silentlambs.org/education/dateline_trans.cfm
and there is plenty of video and transcript documentation available at the
site referenced below:
http://www.silentlambs.org/education/multimedia.cfm
remember not to shoot the messenger!
Barb
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| User: " | " |
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| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
27 Nov 2003 01:30:01 AM |
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"Me" <me@home.net> wrote in message
news:r5dxb.34978$m84.4944424@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Be sure and watch a few episodes of FAKE on TV and pick up some pointers
and
then go back and watch them. Thanks for the citations. Why should I shoot
you?
=======================
What is FAKE? Never heard of it. Are you using some TV show to judge
people's honesty now?
--
Him & Me........
Rom 13:1 Let every soul (including JWs) be subject unto the higher powers.
For there is no
power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power (including JWs), resisteth
the ordinance of
God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~
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| User: "~* Egg Plant *~" |
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| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
19 Nov 2003 05:57:38 PM |
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"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8rCdndn-ooI8VyaiRVn-tg@comcast.com...
I guess you dont watch the news on TV?
pedophile priests being transferred to other cities
gay bishops... etc
===================
I think you need to bring yourself up-to-date on pedophiles. They're no
longer being switched from place to place in the RC church. They haven't
been for a few years now. As we see on the internet the Watchtower still
allows their pedophiles to go door to door and do bible studies in homes
where they may have access to innocent children. These perverts should be
kept away from any situation where they have easy access to children.
Surely the WTS can find jobs at Bethel for them - like cleaning latrines and
sweeping floors.....
--
Nellie & BillyJoe Beal.....
Numbers 23:24 Here God tells them they will not lie down until they eat
the flesh of their prey and DRINK THE BLOOD OF THE SLAIN!!!!
---<---<---<---{@ ---<---<---<---<{@ ---<---<---<---{@ ---<---<
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| User: "Volodymyr Danishevskiy" |
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| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
19 Nov 2003 09:17:24 AM |
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"L Perez" <LPerezDncr@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:OcednTWNWvZ7LCei4p2dnA@comcast.com...
"Volodymyr Danishevskiy" <danishevskiy@onlinehome.de> wrote in message
news:bpdvlk$bbk$1@online.de...
"JaBrIoL" <Jabriol@excite.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d222de3e.0311180736.b1b0331@posting.google.com...
Most of You have probly read Carol news about a JW elder, that went
Bad. As with people everywhere. She then claims that all JW are
Pedophile or worse. Her intent is to sling mud on JW's in general, so
she hunts negative news about JW's. She make it seems that all JW's
are evil people to be avoided. Well I guess it is her word aganst a
whole community, who ahs a different view about JW's.
Nobody here is saying that all JW's are pedophile.But Jehovah's
Witnesses
claim that representatives of their church are only one in the modern
world
who are truly righteous in comparison to other churches of "Christian
world",however the reallity shows that members of JW's are not
righteous
"lambs" as they say, news show that such amoral things like pedophilia
the simple fact is that a person can hide a double-life for many years and
though it takes quite some time before one is accepted to baptism, it *is*
still possible for them to hide wicked behavior. However, usually their
duplicitousness is revealed and when it is they are disfellowshipped. One
can *not* be a member of Christ's one flock if they are willfully
practising
wickedness! That 0.000000000001% of those who become baptised are
discovered
as leading double lives and subsequently disfellowshipped is not
surprising.
That they manage to conceal their double lives for a long period of time
is... of course, if these people belonged to any other organization they
would never be disfellowshipped. Some religions even allow their
*ministers*
to engage in sexual perversions and even reward them! Perhaps it would be
more appropriate to critisize those?
Such crimes as child abuse, rape, murder DO NOT HAVE AN EXPIRATION DATE
(this judicial approach is practiced all over the world even in the most
tyrannies of this world)this means that is IT DOES NOT matter when one of
those crimes have been commited the individual or groups of individuals can
be brought to justice when ever the victim of this crime wants (for example
person A has been molested at the age of 13 year by Jehovah's Witnesses
elder B and person A, files this case to the court at the age of 23, if
elder B is found guilty for the crime he has commited he will be prosecuted
according to criminal law of that country he lives in for molestation he has
commited 10 years ago AGAIN FOR YOUR REFERENCE RAPE,MURDER,CHILD ABUSE DO
NOT HAVE AN EXPIRATION DATES as it's the case with :ROBBERY,THEFT, CORPORATE
DELICTI,MANIPULATION,LIE,FALSE EVIDENCE or in some countries: even
HOSTAGETAKING if the outcome of hostagetaking has not inflictied the death
of hostage/hostages it could be concidered as a mitigating circumstance,
anyway if you want to know exactly, look up a criminal law of your
country )that's why your arguments are ot convincing.As you know there's no
statistic about child abuse withing JW's congregations only some of these
cases are discovered and brought to the court,but there is unofficial
statistics: (I want to stress that these numbers are unofficial and are
taken from: www.silentlambs.org ) 23720 alleged cases among JW's
Have a nice day
I am sure the following Newsreport will make her jump with joy..
How about you? (the usenet readers)
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/11_15_03howardsmemorial.html
Friends, family remember father and son who
perished in boating accident. A glance around the auditorium left no
doubt about what Randy and Joshua Howard meant to those who knew them.
Roughly 800 people packed the Ironwood Ridge High School Auditorium,
2475 W. Naranja Drive, this afternoon to remember the father and son
believed to have died during a tragic fishing trip in the Gulf of
California. The Howards and three friends from a local Jehovah's
Witnesses church set out from Rocky Point Oct. 25 for a trek across
the gulf. A week later 21-year-old Joshua Howard's body was found in
the gulf, but the search ended Nov. 5 without finding a trace of the
others. Wally Pennick, a church elder, led the service. "They were
both the kind of people who walked into a room and lit it up," Pennick
said. Randy Howard, 47, had a reputation as an intense "people person"
who would go far out of his way to help a friend. Rick Eckhoff, Randy
Howard's best friend since high school, remembered his friend's
outgoing nature. "We'd never go camping without meeting everyone
camping around us," Eckhoff said. Pennick spoke of how when he was in
the hospital, Randy Howard visited him, bringing a teddy bear. Pennick
grudgingly admits to having a soft spot for those stuffed animals but
said he was surprised Randy knew. Kent Sebring, who drove freight
trains with Randy Howard for 25 years, remembered his co-worker as a
person "who would do anything for his friends." Eckhoff was on the
Rocky Point vacation but did not go fishing because he said "he is not
a fisherman." Distaste for the sport saved his life but he remains
stunned about what happened to Randy, Joshua and the three other
fishermen on the trip. "We were there having a relaxing vacation and
then we ran into a nightmare," Eckhoff said. Howard met his future
wife, Sheryl, in 1974 when they were both teenagers. They married in
1979 in Phoenix but moved to Tucson's Northwest Side and raised their
sons Joshua and Michael. Joshua Howard "was more like Randy than Randy
was like himself," Pennick said. Eckhoff's niece, Aubrei remembers how
she grew up taking frequent vacations with Josh and his family and how
Josh used to fuss about his four-wheel ATV. She said Josh Howard had
just begun dating a girl he'd known for years. His parents hadn't let
him date until they felt he was mature enough. Josh was crazy about
his girlfriend, 18-year-old Sarah Cox, those close to him said. "They
weren't engaged but it was kind of a known fact that they were going
to get married," Aubrei said. "They've liked each other for so long."
Josh Howard and Cox spent their last few days together in the gulf
snorkeling and wearing near identical wet suits, Aubrei said. Cox
didn't go on the fishing trip either. Father and son were active in
their church, with Randy serving in the ministry. Joshua Howard
graduated from Mountain View High School in 2001 and attended the
University of Arizona. He hoped to be an architect and use his
computer-assisted drafting skills to help the congregation design
houses of worship. Services for the other missing boaters have been
scheduled for this week at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses,
5643 E. Lee St. Daryl Holland, a 42-year-old computer programmer, will
be memorialized Friday. Services will be held 1 p.m. Saturday for Carl
Hopper, a 42-year-old house painter, and will be followed at 3 p.m.
for a final service for 47-year-old contractor Mark Brinke.
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| User: "Mark Sornson" |
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| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
19 Nov 2003 11:02:26 AM |
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Volodymyr Danishevskiy wrote:
Such crimes as child abuse, rape, murder DO NOT HAVE AN EXPIRATION DATE
(this judicial approach is practiced all over the world even in the most
tyrannies of this world)this means that is IT DOES NOT matter when one of
those crimes have been commited the individual or groups of individuals can
be brought to justice when ever the victim of this crime wants (for example
person A has been molested at the age of 13 year by Jehovah's Witnesses
elder B and person A, files this case to the court at the age of 23, if
elder B is found guilty for the crime he has commited he will be prosecuted
according to criminal law of that country he lives in for molestation he has
commited 10 years ago AGAIN FOR YOUR REFERENCE RAPE,MURDER,CHILD ABUSE DO
NOT HAVE AN EXPIRATION DATES as it's the case with :ROBBERY,THEFT, CORPORATE
DELICTI,MANIPULATION,LIE,FALSE EVIDENCE or in some countries: even
HOSTAGETAKING if the outcome of hostagetaking has not inflictied the death
of hostage/hostages it could be concidered as a mitigating circumstance,
anyway if you want to know exactly, look up a criminal law of your
country )that's why your arguments are ot convincing.
Hindsight (what people 'should have done') is
always 20/20.
Like many, if not ALL other religious groups,
JWs (as individuals and as a group) have had to
undergo a 'learning curve' on how to deal with
the pathological behavior of child abusers in
their midst.
That secular laws and policies are also still
being improved is implicit proof that the real world
(outside of JWs) wasn't really prepared for the
deluge of abuse cases that have suddenly broken
through the 'barriers of silence' wherever they
have been raised, either.
Official JW policy as of this moment is for the
organization to be in full sympathy with all
victims of abuse AND to be in full compliance
with the law. It is NOT the place or purpose of
the JW organization to take the place of parents
(and other legal guardians of victims), or to
take the place of the secular authorities in
prosecuting alleged abusers.
As you know there's no
statistic about child abuse withing JW's congregations only some of these
cases are discovered and brought to the court,but there is unofficial
statistics: (I want to stress that these numbers are unofficial and are
taken from: www.silentlambs.org ) 23720 alleged cases among JW's
So, since there is no proven statistic,
yes, why not go with a hypothetical one,
just to get (and keep) people revved up?
I've seen this statistic before, and also
know that it has not been substatiated.
But let's suppose that as a ball-park figure,
on an order of magnitude, it is correct.
At first glance, it indicates that congregation
elders are NOT turning a blind eye to "alleged"
cases. Instead, they are reporting 'allegations'
that come to their attention. That, in and of
itself, is not a bad thing, for JW HQ has
experienced individuals who can readily provide
spiritual AND legal advice very quickly.
If there was nowhere to turn, that would be a
bad thing.
The next thing to consider is what an 'allegation'
is. An allegation may or may not even be a full-fledged
accusation, but only a suspicion that there is something
to look into. It might be a second or third-hand
report (somebody heard that somebody said ...).
Although all such reports need to be investigated,
in some cases elders may call in to HQ for advice
on how to procede even before they are able to
do first-person interviews with the parties
alleged to be involved. After first-person
interviews are done, the allegations MAY turn out to
be false (i.e., were misunderstandings, which is wont
to happen when information starts passing through
the he-said-she-said chain), but for those cases
where an initial call was made, no doubt a record
was also made AND kept.
Thus, while I don't mean to undermine the seriousness
of real cases of abuse, it is highly likely that
any absolute number of 'cases in the file' are the
sum total off both real cases and what is mere 'noise'.
The 'signal-to-noise' ratio is probably the more
telling statistic, and I notice that you don't offer
one. I've heard tell that even the guy who started
'silent lambs' admited that statistically JWs don't
suffer a higher rate of abuse than other groups do.
Not that that is a great fact, in and of itself (if
true -- for ideally, JWs would wish that our 'abuse
rates' were lower than other groups, or nihl), but
I don't see that basic truth being given much
publicity, either.
Have a nice day
You too.
-mark.
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| User: "Volodymyr Danishevskiy" |
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| Title: Re: Friends, family remember father and son |
19 Nov 2003 12:50:07 PM |
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"Mark Sornson" <sornson@zk3.dec.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3FBBA38C.2B58489F@zk3.dec.com...
Volodymyr Danishevskiy wrote:
Such crimes as child abuse, rape, murder DO NOT HAVE AN EXPIRATION DATE
(this judicial approach is practiced all over the world even in the most
tyrannies of this world)this means that is IT DOES NOT matter when one
of
those crimes have been commited the individual or groups of individuals
can
be brought to justice when ever the victim of this crime wants (for
example
person A has been molested at the age of 13 year by Jehovah's Witnesses
elder B and person A, files this case to the court at the age of 23, if
elder B is found guilty for the crime he has commited he will be
prosecuted
according to criminal law of that country he lives in for molestation he
has
commited 10 years ago AGAIN FOR YOUR REFERENCE RAPE,MURDER, | | | | | |
