| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sgeo" |
| Date: |
01 Sep 2006 10:23:27 PM |
| Object: |
"Friends in Hell problem" |
I don't know if this is a new argument or what, but it came up in the
Freethoughtmedia chat.
This argument only works on those who believe in Hell and Heaven, that
Heaven is a place with no suffering, and that people able to get to
Heaven can have unsaved friends.
If someone dies and goes to Heaven, and a close friend dies and goes to
Hell, can the person in Heaven miss the person in Hell. If so, there is
suffering in Heaven. Unless, of course, God does something like drugging
the person in Heaven to make them forget about the person in Hell, or
making a non-conscious replica of the friend in Hell :)
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
15 Sep 2006 10:16:27 AM |
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On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 05:22:44 GMT, Johnny Bravo <baawa_knight@yahoo.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
On 13 Sep 2006 06:52:15 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
so would some one be so kind and do tell how they lost there faith, or
what persuaded them(or didnt persuade them)to athiesm?
You know what my definition of perfect evil is, inflicting infinite punishment
for a finite transgression. Strangely enough, there are only three major groups
of people who keep telling me how evil their deity is and if I know what's good
for me I'll violate every tenet of my moral code and fall down on my knees and
worship, or else I get to find out just how evil their deity truly is.
You forget the 'fall down on your knees and worship' and get thrown in
Hell anyway.
The truly hillarious thing is that all three of these groups profess to
worship the same deity and have killed millions of people, over thousands of
years just because they had the balls to say "Sorry, I don't believe that." The
icing on the cake is that these three groups have not only been slaughtering
unbelievers, they have been slaughtering each other the whole time; even to the
point of infighting within the groups resulting in tens of thousands of deaths.
All in the name of a deity that they have no evidence for.
Don't forget they don't even have a coherant definition for the key
letter string!
I'd go on, but I'm laughing so hard that typing is becoming difficult.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
13 Sep 2006 11:30:23 AM |
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On 13 Sep 2006 06:52:15 -0700, RJ wrote in message
<1158155535.616374.13970@e63g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
*snip*
well one day he
will show you he is God and he wont even have to get up, but then again
that would be to late.
<Yawn> Threats. All we ever get from you guys is threats. Can you
please get some new material?
i never threatend anybody. its a warning, thats how i mean it
anyways,how you take it is on you.
You are telling us evil atheists that we'd better smarten up or else we
will suffer an eternity being based on your BELIEFS? You don't even
KNOW what you're claiming is true or not. This is way different from
telling us we'd better move inland because a hurricane is coming. If
you're wielding your beliefs over our heads then that's a threat. It's
not on us, it's on you.
sounds harsh doesnt it?and i do BELIEVE it to be true.and it is
offending.it was for me too.and they said the same thing for katrina
and alot of people decided to go and sit in a big bowl(the stadium).
were they threatend? i think not.they were warned. take ithe truth how
ever you can, watever you do just take it. thats all i'll say about
that.
Well, FWIW, my view on this isn't so much focused on the reality or no
of Hell but on the fact that those who believe it is real are prepared
to worship the entity, imaginary or not, who imposes it. Personally I
find this morally inconceivable, and arguably it puts many Christians
on a par with those who knew of the death camps, took no personal hand
in them but never-the-less continued to support the Party.
so would some one be so kind and do tell how they lost there faith, or
what persuaded them(or didnt persuade them)to athiesm?
One imagines it's not so much a case of being persuaded to atheism as
realising that the evidence in favour of belief in a God isn't
sufficiently compelling as to warrant belief in God.
--
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
attrib: Pauline Réage. Cine To DVD? http://www.video2cd.co.uk
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
13 Sep 2006 10:15:48 AM |
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RJ wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
*snip*
well one day he
will show you he is God and he wont even have to get up, but then again
that would be to late.
<Yawn> Threats. All we ever get from you guys is threats. Can you
please get some new material?
i never threatend anybody. its a warning, thats how i mean it
anyways,how you take it is on you.
You are telling us evil atheists that we'd better smarten up or else we
will suffer an eternity being based on your BELIEFS? You don't even
KNOW what you're claiming is true or not. This is way different from
telling us we'd better move inland because a hurricane is coming. If
you're wielding your beliefs over our heads then that's a threat. It's
not on us, it's on you.
sounds harsh doesnt it?and i do BELIEVE it to be true.and it is
offending.it was for me too.
No, it sounds ridiculous. Beliefs are irrelevant if you can't back them
up with evidence.
and they said the same thing for katrina
and alot of people decided to go and sit in a big bowl(the stadium).
were they threatend?
That was my point, genius. People were warned about Katrina, for which
there was ample evidence for it's existence. You, however, are
threatening us with your beliefs (for which there is no evidence),
despite your denials two posts ago.
i think not.they were warned. take ithe truth how
ever you can, watever you do just take it. thats all i'll say about
that.
You are almost imcomprehensible, and I don't mean that in a good way.
so would some one be so kind and do tell how they lost there faith, or
what persuaded them(or didnt persuade them)to athiesm?
I never got faith. I was sent to Sunday school as a six year old and
immediately thought the idea of god was completely retarded. I refused
to go after three weeks. I would never have given religion a passing
thought again if it weren't for the outrageously bad behaviour of
believers.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
13 Sep 2006 05:42:36 PM |
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On 13 Sep 2006 08:15:48 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1158160548.222283.81810@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
RJ wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
*snip*
well one day he
will show you he is God and he wont even have to get up, but then again
that would be to late.
<Yawn> Threats. All we ever get from you guys is threats. Can you
please get some new material?
i never threatend anybody. its a warning, thats how i mean it
anyways,how you take it is on you.
You are telling us evil atheists that we'd better smarten up or else we
will suffer an eternity being based on your BELIEFS? You don't even
KNOW what you're claiming is true or not. This is way different from
telling us we'd better move inland because a hurricane is coming. If
you're wielding your beliefs over our heads then that's a threat. It's
not on us, it's on you.
sounds harsh doesnt it?and i do BELIEVE it to be true.and it is
offending.it was for me too.
No, it sounds ridiculous. Beliefs are irrelevant if you can't back them
up with evidence.
and they said the same thing for katrina
and alot of people decided to go and sit in a big bowl(the stadium).
were they threatend?
That was my point, genius. People were warned about Katrina, for which
there was ample evidence for it's existence. You, however, are
threatening us with your beliefs (for which there is no evidence),
despite your denials two posts ago.
i think not.they were warned. take ithe truth how
ever you can, watever you do just take it. thats all i'll say about
that.
You are almost imcomprehensible, and I don't mean that in a good way.
Stunning, isn't it?
I wonder if he has attended any sort of schooling?
so would some one be so kind and do tell how they lost there faith, or
what persuaded them(or didnt persuade them)to athiesm?
I never got faith. I was sent to Sunday school as a six year old and
immediately thought the idea of god was completely retarded. I refused
to go after three weeks. I would never have given religion a passing
thought again if it weren't for the outrageously bad behaviour of
believers.
.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
15 Sep 2006 02:20:46 PM |
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RJ wrote:
so would some one be so kind and do tell how they lost there faith, or
what persuaded them(or didnt persuade them)to athiesm?
I didn't "lose" my faith, I grew out of it.
Reasons why I consider myself an atheist now?
1. There is no evidence that any god exists.
2. There is no evidence that such a thing as the "soul" exists.
3. The concept of everlasting life is not an attractive one. I have
no problem with dying and just being dead. The fear I was brought up
with has disappeared.
4. The Bible is, quite clearly, a book of Bronze Age mythology.
Contrary to what I was brought up to believe, it is neither accurate
nor self-consistent. It has been heavily edited. It is not remarkably
different from the holy books of any other religion.
5. I came to realize that faith is not a virtue, but a character flaw.
And that's just for starters.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
13 Sep 2006 01:48:21 PM |
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RJ wrote:
<Snippety>
are you an x - christian? and if you are what were some things that
persuaded you to just stop?
Yes, I am an ex born-again Christian, and education is the reason why
one day I woke up and realized that I am an atheist. There is no
particular moment in time when I decided to "just stop"; my atheism is
a result of a life of study and questioning.
now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen." hebrews 11:1 i laid it down pretty fairly.
The problem is, rj, that "faith" is not a virtue, it's a character
flaw. "Faith" is the willingness/ability to believe in something for
which there is no evidence. Another word for that is "gullibility."
It's not a characteristic one should cultivate in one's personality.
so i guess you
want God to get off his throne and show you himself?
Why shouldn't he? If he wants us to believe and be saved, he knows
what it would take for each of us to do that. Why doesn't he come
across with the goods, then? Could it be that he *likes* having people
to torture for all eternity? It would seem so, if any of your myth is
to be believed.
well one day he
will show you he is God and he wont even have to get up, but then again
that would be to late.
<Yawn> Threats. All we ever get from you guys is threats. Can you
please get some new material?
i never threatend anybody. its a warning, thats how i mean it
anyways,how you take it is on you.
Well, a warning is by it's very nature the acknowledgement of a threat.
If you aren't directly making the threat, you're pointing out that
something else is doing the threatening - without stopping to question
either the reality *or* the morality of the "threat." It means that
you have run out of arguments.
It's all that Christians have to fall back on, in the final analysis:
the threat that their god is going to do something nasty to people who
cannot believe in him due to a complete lack of evidence that he
exists. It's infantile.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakatocom dot net
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
13 Sep 2006 09:59:19 PM |
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On 13 Sep 2006 11:48:21 -0700, "skyeyes" <skyeyes@dakotacom.net> wrote
in alt.atheism
RJ wrote:
<Snippety>
are you an x - christian? and if you are what were some things that
persuaded you to just stop?
Yes, I am an ex born-again Christian, and education is the reason why
one day I woke up and realized that I am an atheist. There is no
particular moment in time when I decided to "just stop"; my atheism is
a result of a life of study and questioning.
now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen." hebrews 11:1 i laid it down pretty fairly.
The problem is, rj, that "faith" is not a virtue, it's a character
flaw. "Faith" is the willingness/ability to believe in something for
which there is no evidence. Another word for that is "gullibility."
It's not a characteristic one should cultivate in one's personality.
so i guess you
want God to get off his throne and show you himself?
Why shouldn't he? If he wants us to believe and be saved, he knows
what it would take for each of us to do that. Why doesn't he come
across with the goods, then? Could it be that he *likes* having people
to torture for all eternity? It would seem so, if any of your myth is
to be believed.
well one day he
will show you he is God and he wont even have to get up, but then again
that would be to late.
<Yawn> Threats. All we ever get from you guys is threats. Can you
please get some new material?
i never threatend anybody. its a warning, thats how i mean it
anyways,how you take it is on you.
Well, a warning is by it's very nature the acknowledgement of a threat.
If you aren't directly making the threat, you're pointing out that
something else is doing the threatening - without stopping to question
either the reality *or* the morality of the "threat." It means that
you have run out of arguments.
It's all that Christians have to fall back on, in the final analysis:
the threat that their god is going to do something nasty to people who
cannot believe in him due to a complete lack of evidence that he
exists. It's infantile.
They are mental toddlers. What's really pathetic is they utilize the
same tactics they utilized concerning Santa Claus, the Tooth Faerie,
Easter Bunny, and others.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 11:12:39 AM |
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RJ wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
RJ wrote:
Michael Gray wrote:
On 6 Sep 2006 11:13:25 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1157566405.285069.273770@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Elroy Willis wrote:
RJ <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Uncle Vic wrote:
The bible says a true believer can pray for anything in Jesus' name, and
he will receive it. Could you pray for God to let all the sinners out of
hell?
perhaps you could give the book, chapter, and verse of that?
John 14:12-14
"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what
I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these,
because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you
ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."
Matthew 18:19
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about
yeah i just wanted to see were you were coming from. well
hypethetically if Jesus did take all the people out of hell, were would
they go?
An especially useless hypothetical question, considering neither
Jesus, nor Hell exist.
you didnt answer the question.and wether or not Heaven and Hell exist is a matter of
opinion.
Wrong. Whether or not something exists is a matter of proof, not
opinion. Every other place has to meet this criteria (you know, London
exists because there's proof it does, Never Never Land doesn't exist
because there's proof it doesn't), what's so different about your
Christian fantasy lands? Sounds like special pleading to me.
i'm starting to think that no one read what i wrote when i put down,"
now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen." hebrews 11:1 i laid it down pretty fairly. so i guess you
want God to get off his throne and show you himself? well one day he
will show you he is God and he wont even have to get up, but then again
that would be to late. what exacly do you ean by "special pleading" ?
(From Wikipedia) Special pleading is a form of spurious argumentation
where a position in a dispute introduces favorable details or excludes
unfavorable details by alleging a need to apply additional
considerations without proper criticism of these considerations
themselves.
So it is special pleading that you don't think the same criteria should
be applied to the existence of Heaven and Hell that there is for the
existence of all other locations, because some vague quote in the Bible
gives you special exemption, it being the blessed word of god and all.
Yes. If there's a god there, they should reveal themselves. Without
that, all we're left with is transparent megalomaniac con-men or the
sincere but gullible victims of the con-men, vehemently screaming that
they really really really believe this all powerful omnipotent all
pervasive supernatural being exists (whom they've never seen nor heard,
by the way). But without proof of god they are all humans, no different
from me, except they are caught in a complex web of generations upon
generations of wishful thinking. No thanks, I prefer reality.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
13 Sep 2006 09:37:20 PM |
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On 8 Sep 2006 09:12:39 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
RJ wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
RJ wrote:
Michael Gray wrote:
On 6 Sep 2006 11:13:25 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1157566405.285069.273770@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Elroy Willis wrote:
RJ <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Uncle Vic wrote:
The bible says a true believer can pray for anything in Jesus' name, and
he will receive it. Could you pray for God to let all the sinners out of
hell?
perhaps you could give the book, chapter, and verse of that?
John 14:12-14
"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what
I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these,
because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you
ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."
Matthew 18:19
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about
yeah i just wanted to see were you were coming from. well
hypethetically if Jesus did take all the people out of hell, were would
they go?
An especially useless hypothetical question, considering neither
Jesus, nor Hell exist.
you didnt answer the question.and wether or not Heaven and Hell exist is a matter of
opinion.
Wrong. Whether or not something exists is a matter of proof, not
opinion. Every other place has to meet this criteria (you know, London
exists because there's proof it does, Never Never Land doesn't exist
because there's proof it doesn't), what's so different about your
Christian fantasy lands? Sounds like special pleading to me.
i'm starting to think that no one read what i wrote when i put down,"
now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen." hebrews 11:1 i laid it down pretty fairly. so i guess you
want God to get off his throne and show you himself? well one day he
will show you he is God and he wont even have to get up, but then again
that would be to late. what exacly do you ean by "special pleading" ?
(From Wikipedia) Special pleading is a form of spurious argumentation
where a position in a dispute introduces favorable details or excludes
unfavorable details by alleging a need to apply additional
considerations without proper criticism of these considerations
themselves.
So it is special pleading that you don't think the same criteria should
be applied to the existence of Heaven and Hell that there is for the
existence of all other locations, because some vague quote in the Bible
gives you special exemption, it being the blessed word of god and all.
Yes. If there's a god there, they should reveal themselves. Without
that, all we're left with is transparent megalomaniac con-men or the
sincere but gullible victims of the con-men, vehemently screaming that
they really really really believe this all powerful omnipotent all
pervasive supernatural being exists (whom they've never seen nor heard,
by the way). But without proof of god they are all humans, no different
from me, except they are caught in a complex web of generations upon
generations of wishful thinking. No thanks, I prefer reality.
It's no accident spinless oafs like Ryan are called 'flocks of sheep.'
The 'shephards' constantly are fleecing them and leading them to
slaughter.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "William T. Goat" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
15 Sep 2006 03:45:09 PM |
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RJ wrote:
i'm starting to think that no one read what i wrote when i put down,"
now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen." hebrews 11:1 i laid it down pretty fairly.
How does a person get religious faith? Nobody is born with it. Where
does it come from? God? Then it's God's responsibility to give me
faith.
so i guess you
want God to get off his throne and show you himself?
It's not about what we want, it's about what would cause belief. Nobody
seeks to believe untrue things. I can't believe things that look
untrue. God looks untrue. Is that my fault? Do I control how true or
untrue God looks?
In the Bible, God "gets off his throne" and shows himself all the time.
If that's the God you say is real, then that's the God I'll look for: a
God who gets off his throne and shows me himself. You can't tell me God
is like that, and then turn around and criticize me for expecting God
to be like that. That's bait-and-switch.
--Billy
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
07 Sep 2006 09:27:05 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet RJ (ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com)
made the light shine upon us with this:
yeah i just wanted to see were you were coming from. well
hypethetically if Jesus did take all the people out of hell, were would
they go?
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning.
America, one of the most Fundy countries in the world short of the Middle
East, allows for parole in all but the most extreme cases. A prisoner is
theoretically able to redeem himself while incarcerated.
This is apparently not the case in Christian (and Muslim) afterlife.
Apparently the People are much more humane than the God. The god's plan is
to punish these sinners FOREVER. And you know what? People like Geoffrey
Dahmer or Hitler only needed to repent one minute before they died. So you
so-called heaven-bound Christians could be spending the rest of eternity
with these kind souls, while we atheists, whose only crime is non-belief,
would be in hell FOREVER. WTF?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
13 Sep 2006 10:04:02 PM |
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On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:27:05 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet RJ (ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com)
made the light shine upon us with this:
yeah i just wanted to see were you were coming from. well
hypethetically if Jesus did take all the people out of hell, were would
they go?
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning.
America, one of the most Fundy countries in the world short of the Middle
East, allows for parole in all but the most extreme cases. A prisoner is
theoretically able to redeem himself while incarcerated.
This is apparently not the case in Christian (and Muslim) afterlife.
Apparently the People are much more humane than the God. The god's plan is
to punish these sinners FOREVER. And you know what? People like Geoffrey
Dahmer or Hitler only needed to repent one minute before they died. So you
so-called heaven-bound Christians could be spending the rest of eternity
with these kind souls, while we atheists, whose only crime is non-belief,
would be in hell FOREVER. WTF?
No crime at all when actors have no option but to hit their marks and
spout their lines as scripted in a pointless play eons ago.
God lies and, by definition, it is good. The imaginary character can
utter empty promises and toss the fuckwit believer into Hel for eternity
and such is; just, loving, righteous, and the rest of the simpering
drivel.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "RJ" |
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| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 09:15:04 AM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet RJ (ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com)
made the light shine upon us with this:
yeah i just wanted to see were you were coming from. well
hypethetically if Jesus did take all the people out of hell, were would
they go?
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
America, one of the most Fundy countries in the world short of the Middle
East, allows for parole in all but the most extreme cases. A prisoner is
theoretically able to redeem himself while incarcerated.
yes but this a much larger scale than america, i'm talking about the
whole world.
This is apparently not the case in Christian (and Muslim) afterlife.
Apparently the People are much more humane than the God. The god's plan is
to punish these sinners FOREVER. And you know what? People like Geoffrey
Dahmer or Hitler only needed to repent one minute before they died. So you
so-called heaven-bound Christians could be spending the rest of eternity
with these kind souls, while we atheists, whose only crime is non-belief,
would be in hell FOREVER. WTF?
one more time "ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
romans 3:23, theres actually people out there that say, i'll pray for
99 years to live and and extra to repent. that kind of minset.but were
not garunteed tomarrow, cause we dont no what exactly is going to
happen.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
.
|
|
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 09:33:49 AM |
|
|
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to your
ISP.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 12:21:40 PM |
|
|
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Robibnikoff
(witchypoo@broomstick.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of
the newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints
sent to your ISP.
Oh, that's OK. It only shows the poster himself has nothing to say.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "RJ" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 02:19:13 PM |
|
|
Robibnikoff wrote:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to your
ISP.
well lets not be unreasonable here, were just having a discusion.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 02:48:45 PM |
|
|
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1157743153.211718.119740@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Robibnikoff wrote:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to
your
ISP.
well lets not be unreasonable here, were just having a discusion.
Fine - Then leave your bible babble out of it.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
|
|
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
13 Sep 2006 10:06:16 PM |
|
|
On 8 Sep 2006 12:19:13 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
Robibnikoff wrote:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to your
ISP.
well lets not be unreasonable here, were just having a discusion.
You mean you're having a monologue.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 06:09:58 PM |
|
|
On 8 Sep 2006 12:19:13 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1157743153.211718.119740@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
Robibnikoff wrote:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to your
ISP.
well lets not be unreasonable here, were just having a discusion.
Typical sanctiomious christian, for whom 'reasonableness' is strictly
a one way street.
I, for one, find your approach thoroughly offensive.
.
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|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 02:22:01 PM |
|
|
On 8 Sep 2006 12:19:13 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to your
ISP.
well lets not be unreasonable here, were just having a discusion.
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha...... Reasonable means respecting the
fact that your wholly babble is worthless to people in whose faces you
rudely rub it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "RJ" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 02:24:48 PM |
|
|
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On 8 Sep 2006 12:19:13 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to your
ISP.
well lets not be unreasonable here, were just having a discusion.
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha...... Reasonable means respecting the
fact that your wholly babble is worthless to people in whose faces you
rudely rub it.
i'm not rubbing anything. its called witnessing. i apologize if it
seemed that i was "rubbuing anything"
.
|
|
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| User: "Jim07D6" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 03:06:06 PM |
|
|
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> said:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On 8 Sep 2006 12:19:13 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to your
ISP.
well lets not be unreasonable here, were just having a discusion.
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha...... Reasonable means respecting the
fact that your wholly babble is worthless to people in whose faces you
rudely rub it.
i'm not rubbing anything. its called witnessing. i apologize if it
seemed that i was "rubbuing anything"
The question is, will you stop? If no, then you should report yourself
to your ISP. Meanwhile, we have our methods.
-- Jim07D6
.
|
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 06:15:02 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 20:06:06 GMT, Jim07D6 <Jim07D6@nospam.net> wrote:
- Refer: <c7j3g2lib2462174dr6hkol6pgv3hoihgc@4ax.com>
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> said:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On 8 Sep 2006 12:19:13 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to your
ISP.
well lets not be unreasonable here, were just having a discusion.
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha...... Reasonable means respecting the
fact that your wholly babble is worthless to people in whose faces you
rudely rub it.
i'm not rubbing anything. its called witnessing. i apologize if it
seemed that i was "rubbuing anything"
The question is, will you stop? If no, then you should report yourself
to your ISP. Meanwhile, we have our methods.
-- Jim07D6
We have one main method: Logic.
Logic and facts.
(Damn!) Two, we have two main methods!
.
|
|
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 10:11:57 PM |
|
|
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Michael Gray
(fleetg@newsguy.spam.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
We have one main method: Logic.
Logic and facts.
(Damn!) Two, we have two main methods!
Logic, facts, and a ruthless efficiency - THREE MAIN METHODS....
I'll come in again...
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
09 Sep 2006 12:09:46 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 22:11:57 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <Xns9838CD77E73vicman@216.196.97.136>
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Michael Gray
(fleetg@newsguy.spam.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
We have one main method: Logic.
Logic and facts.
(Damn!) Two, we have two main methods!
Logic, facts, and a ruthless efficiency - THREE MAIN METHODS....
I'll come in again...
Cardinal Vic!
You'll have to say it.
You'll have to say: "Our chief weapon is logic, facts, blah blah blah"
(Nobody expects the EAC!)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Uncle Vic" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
09 Sep 2006 01:14:35 AM |
|
|
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Michael Gray
(fleetg@newsguy.spam.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 22:11:57 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <Xns9838CD77E73vicman@216.196.97.136>
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Michael Gray
(fleetg@newsguy.spam.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
We have one main method: Logic.
Logic and facts.
(Damn!) Two, we have two main methods!
Logic, facts, and a ruthless efficiency - THREE MAIN METHODS....
I'll come in again...
Cardinal Vic!
You'll have to say it.
You'll have to say: "Our chief weapon is logic, facts, blah blah blah"
(Nobody expects the EAC!)
There ya go...
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
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|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 02:49:28 PM |
|
|
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1157743488.303543.286770@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On 8 Sep 2006 12:19:13 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for
forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of
the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to
your
ISP.
well lets not be unreasonable here, were just having a discusion.
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha...... Reasonable means respecting the
fact that your wholly babble is worthless to people in whose faces you
rudely rub it.
i'm not rubbing anything. its called witnessing.
Which is against the charter of this newsgroup.
i apologize if it
seemed that i was "rubbuing anything"
Just knock it off.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
13 Sep 2006 10:09:55 PM |
|
|
On 8 Sep 2006 12:24:48 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On 8 Sep 2006 12:19:13 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to your
ISP.
well lets not be unreasonable here, were just having a discusion.
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha...... Reasonable means respecting the
fact that your wholly babble is worthless to people in whose faces you
rudely rub it.
i'm not rubbing anything. its called witnessing. i apologize if it
seemed that i was "rubbuing anything"
Your 'apology' is, like yourself, totally worthless and a very common
transparent christian lie. Astonishing how Christians, like yourself,
are terminally worthless examples of 'humanity.'
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
08 Sep 2006 06:13:53 PM |
|
|
On 8 Sep 2006 12:24:48 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1157743488.303543.286770@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On 8 Sep 2006 12:19:13 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to your
ISP.
well lets not be unreasonable here, were just having a discusion.
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha...... Reasonable means respecting the
fact that your wholly babble is worthless to people in whose faces you
rudely rub it.
i'm not rubbing anything. its called witnessing. i apologize if it
seemed that i was "rubbuing anything"
"witnessing" is both arrogant and rude to those who do not happen to
have acquired your mental illness, as well as clearly against the
charter of the group.
Rational discussion is neither of those things.
But rational discussion requires listenening and understanding from
you, something which I have seen nothing of so far.
Perhaps you should stick to "rational discussion", if you don't want
your theological butt metaphorically kicked.
.
|
|
|
| User: "RJ" |
|
| Title: Re: "Friends in Hell problem" |
09 Sep 2006 11:04:53 AM |
|
|
Michael Gray wrote:
On 8 Sep 2006 12:24:48 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1157743488.303543.286770@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On 8 Sep 2006 12:19:13 -0700, "RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"RJ" <ryansoccerstar1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
snip
To heaven, of course. One big happy family. Do you think they are
redeemable? I would be, after one day of burning
its by sin. " for the wages of sin is death"romans 3:23 "24, and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by
Christ Jesus. 25, God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand
unpunished."romans 6:24-25 we have the chance to ask for forgiveness
now, so were not screaming for it in hell.
Excuse me, but posting bible verses in alt.atheism is in violation of the
newsgroup's charter and could result in you getting complaints sent to your
ISP.
well lets not be unreasonable here, were just having a discusion.
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha...... Reasonable means respecting the
fact that your wholly babble is worthless to people in whose faces you
rudely rub it.
i'm not rubbing anything. its called witnessing. i apologize if it
seemed that i was "rubbuing anything"
"witnessing" is both arrogant and rude to those who do not happen to
have acquired your mental illness, as well as clearly against the
charter of the group.
Rational discussion is neither of those things.
But rational discussion requires listenening and understanding from
you, something which I have seen nothing of so far.
Perhaps you should stick to "rational discussion", if you don't want
your theological butt metaphorically kicked.
lol, over the computer?jk.
ok then as an athiest would you mind sharing your beliefs with me. and
i wont say nothing unless you have a question mark at the end of your
sentance.
.
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