Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in schools



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "maff"
Date: 07 May 2005 04:18:20 AM
Object: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in schools
Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in
schools
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=636310
Knowledge goes on trial this week at a series of special hearings by a
Mid-West education board to determine how science is taught in its
schools. Andrew Gumbel reports from Topeka, Kansas
07 May 2005
Bruce Simat, a genetics specialist from a small college in St Paul,
Minnesota, wants to make one thing clear about his sceptical views on
evolution. "First of all," he insists, "I'm not a cheesehead."
His defensiveness is understandable, given everything that follows in
his presentation to the Kansas State Board of Education. Like almost
every other witness attending a series of special hearings this week in
Topeka, the Kansas state capital, Dr Simat thinks that Darwinian
evolution is not a scientific theory so much as an expression of dogma
-- a sort of blind faith among mainstream scientists predicated on a
rejection of God as the creator of the Earth.
Kansas evolution
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/d139b633236f3c4c
.

User: "Tom"

Title: Re: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in schools 07 May 2005 06:57:46 AM
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115457500.317712.176430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Bruce Simat, a genetics specialist from a small college in St Paul,
Minnesota, wants to make one thing clear about his sceptical views on
evolution. "First of all," he insists, "I'm not a cheesehead."

I'm sure it's merely a coincidence that by "small college" we mean
"evangelical Christian college" - read their mission statement and you'll
see that this sort of hijinx is what they live for. And they own media
outlets from Florida to North Dakota, too! There's a proper business for a
small college in St Paul.
Here's their "Statement of Philosophy" from their "Academics" (no, really)
page:
<quote>
Northwestern College endeavors to provide education that is grounded first
and foremost in the truth of the Bible and in God as the Ultimate Reality of
the universe. Only through an intimate knowledge of the Word of God and a
deep, growing relationship with Jesus Christ can all other knowledge be
interpreted properly and accurately. The study of the Bible and theology is
the foundation upon which all other disciplines rest. When the apparent
truths of an academic discipline conflict with the truth of God's Word, we
put our trust in God's revealed truth in the Bible.
</quote> http://nwc.nwc.edu/index.php?id=71
.
User: "Pithecanthropus Erectus"

Title: Re: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin andGod in schools 07 May 2005 09:50:47 AM
Tom wrote:

"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115457500.317712.176430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Bruce Simat, a genetics specialist from a small college in St Paul,
Minnesota, wants to make one thing clear about his sceptical views on
evolution. "First of all," he insists, "I'm not a cheesehead."



I'm sure it's merely a coincidence that by "small college" we mean
"evangelical Christian college" - read their mission statement and you'll
see that this sort of hijinx is what they live for.

As a matter of pride, I would like top point out that this small college
is not in St. Paul. It is in a suburb.
Concordia University is in St. Paul. Hamline University is in St. Paul.
MaCalaster College is in St. Paul. William Mitchell School of Law is
in St. Paul. Metro State University is in St. Paul. The University of
Minnesota Agricultural Campus is in St. Paul.
North West is in Arden Hills. And they can stay there.
And they own media

outlets from Florida to North Dakota, too! There's a proper business for a
small college in St Paul.

Here's their "Statement of Philosophy" from their "Academics" (no, really)
page:
<quote>
Northwestern College endeavors to provide education that is grounded first
and foremost in the truth of the Bible and in God as the Ultimate Reality of
the universe. Only through an intimate knowledge of the Word of God and a
deep, growing relationship with Jesus Christ can all other knowledge be
interpreted properly and accurately. The study of the Bible and theology is
the foundation upon which all other disciplines rest. When the apparent
truths of an academic discipline conflict with the truth of God's Word, we
put our trust in God's revealed truth in the Bible.
</quote> http://nwc.nwc.edu/index.php?id=71

--
"The pope should lift the ban on condoms immediately in order to err on
the side of life."
Catholics for Free Choice
.
User: "Tom McDonald"

Title: Re: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin andGodin schools 07 May 2005 03:42:31 PM
Pithecanthropus Erectus wrote:

Tom wrote:

"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115457500.317712.176430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...



Bruce Simat, a genetics specialist from a small college in St Paul,
Minnesota, wants to make one thing clear about his sceptical views on
evolution. "First of all," he insists, "I'm not a cheesehead."



I'm sure it's merely a coincidence that by "small college" we mean
"evangelical Christian college" - read their mission statement and you'll
see that this sort of hijinx is what they live for.




As a matter of pride, I would like top point out that this small college
is not in St. Paul. It is in a suburb.


Concordia University is in St. Paul. Hamline University is in St. Paul.
MaCalaster College is in St. Paul. William Mitchell School of Law is
in St. Paul. Metro State University is in St. Paul. The University of
Minnesota Agricultural Campus is in St. Paul.

North West is in Arden Hills. And they can stay there.

As a further matter of pride, he could not be a cheesehead.
Cheeseheads are us Wisconsinites; Minnesotans need not apply.
Unless they are _from_ Wisconsin, and/or are rabid Packer fans.
Q. Why won't Iowa ever get a National Football League team?
A. Because then Minnesota would want one! :-)
<snip>
--
Tom McDonald
http://ahwhatdoiknow.blogspot.com/
.



User: "Ron O"

Title: Re: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in schools 07 May 2005 07:43:45 AM
maff wrote:

Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in
schools
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=636310

Knowledge goes on trial this week at a series of special hearings by

a

Mid-West education board to determine how science is taught in its
schools. Andrew Gumbel reports from Topeka, Kansas

07 May 2005


Bruce Simat, a genetics specialist from a small college in St Paul,
Minnesota, wants to make one thing clear about his sceptical views on
evolution. "First of all," he insists, "I'm not a cheesehead."

His defensiveness is understandable, given everything that follows in
his presentation to the Kansas State Board of Education. Like almost
every other witness attending a series of special hearings this week

in

Topeka, the Kansas state capital, Dr Simat thinks that Darwinian
evolution is not a scientific theory so much as an expression of

dogma

-- a sort of blind faith among mainstream scientists predicated on a
rejection of God as the creator of the Earth.

Kansas evolution
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/d139b633236f3c4c

Also from the article:
QUOTE:
Ralph Seelke, a microbiologist who is one of the few experts to have
done bona fide scientific research in the field (he has watched
microbes reproduce over thousands of generations, waiting to see if
there will be any mutations - there haven't been) was described in the
Board of Education's mini-biography as having an "ongoing interest in
Christian apologetics": He" is convinced that Christianity is not only
true, but that it is perhaps the only way of viewing the world that
allows both meaning and rationality in life."
END QUOTE:
I did a PubMed search and if this is Seelke R and RW his only published
works claim that he studied mutations. Of course he hasn't published
since 1987, so his latest work could be about anything, but it doesn't
seem to have been good enough for him to publish it. There is no
evidence that he has done anything in over a decade and he only
published from between 1980 and 1987.
I'd like to see the transcript to see just what he thinks that he was
doing. It would be interesting to see the experimental design that one
of these goof balls could come up with. It would be interesting to see
what they think an experiment is.
Ron Okimoto
.
User: "Kate "

Title: Re: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in schools 07 May 2005 08:31:01 AM
On 7 May 2005 05:43:45 -0700, "Ron O" <pokemoto@aol.com> wrote:


maff wrote:

Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in
schools
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=636310

Knowledge goes on trial this week at a series of special hearings by

a

Mid-West education board to determine how science is taught in its
schools. Andrew Gumbel reports from Topeka, Kansas

07 May 2005


Bruce Simat, a genetics specialist from a small college in St Paul,
Minnesota, wants to make one thing clear about his sceptical views on
evolution. "First of all," he insists, "I'm not a cheesehead."

His defensiveness is understandable, given everything that follows in
his presentation to the Kansas State Board of Education. Like almost
every other witness attending a series of special hearings this week

in

Topeka, the Kansas state capital, Dr Simat thinks that Darwinian
evolution is not a scientific theory so much as an expression of

dogma

-- a sort of blind faith among mainstream scientists predicated on a
rejection of God as the creator of the Earth.

Kansas evolution
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/d139b633236f3c4c


Also from the article:
QUOTE:
Ralph Seelke, a microbiologist who is one of the few experts to have
done bona fide scientific research in the field (he has watched
microbes reproduce over thousands of generations, waiting to see if
there will be any mutations - there haven't been) was described in the
Board of Education's mini-biography as having an "ongoing interest in
Christian apologetics": He" is convinced that Christianity is not only
true, but that it is perhaps the only way of viewing the world that
allows both meaning and rationality in life."
END QUOTE:

I did a PubMed search and if this is Seelke R and RW his only published
works claim that he studied mutations. Of course he hasn't published
since 1987, so his latest work could be about anything, but it doesn't
seem to have been good enough for him to publish it. There is no
evidence that he has done anything in over a decade and he only
published from between 1980 and 1987.

I'd like to see the transcript to see just what he thinks that he was
doing. It would be interesting to see the experimental design that one
of these goof balls could come up with. It would be interesting to see
what they think an experiment is.

Ron Okimoto

And even more interesting to see who funded his 'research'.
.

User: "James"

Title: Re: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin andGod in schools 07 May 2005 11:36:50 AM
Ron O wrote:

(he has watched
microbes reproduce over thousands of generations, waiting to see if
there will be any mutations - there haven't been)

<snip>
I wonder why he didn't choose viruses? Those mutate every generation,
and become vastly different strains entirely over thousands.
--
James B, master of the tri-pronged scrotal mount
aa #944
"All that belongs to human understanding, in this
deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical,
or at least cautious; and not to admit of any
hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which
is supported by no appearance of probability."
-David Hume
.
User: "Mark Isaak"

Title: Re: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin andGod in schools 07 May 2005 05:26:12 PM
On Sat, 07 May 2005 11:36:50 -0500, James <shiv_@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ron O wrote:

(he has watched
microbes reproduce over thousands of generations, waiting to see if
there will be any mutations - there haven't been)

<snip>

I wonder why he didn't choose viruses? Those mutate every generation,
and become vastly different strains entirely over thousands.

And I wonder how he determined that there haven't been any mutations.
Did he just look at them and say, "Yup, they're still microbes"?
--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) earthlink (dot) net
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
exposing the country to danger." -- Hermann Goering
.



User: "Jeffrey Turner"

Title: Re: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin andGod in schools 07 May 2005 06:47:38 AM
maff wrote:

Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in
schools
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=636310

God is everywhere, including schools - but only Darwin should be
taught in science class.

Knowledge goes on trial this week at a series of special hearings by a
Mid-West education board to determine how science is taught in its
schools. Andrew Gumbel reports from Topeka, Kansas

07 May 2005


Bruce Simat, a genetics specialist from a small college in St Paul,
Minnesota, wants to make one thing clear about his sceptical views on
evolution. "First of all," he insists, "I'm not a cheesehead."

His defensiveness is understandable, given everything that follows in
his presentation to the Kansas State Board of Education. Like almost
every other witness attending a series of special hearings this week in
Topeka, the Kansas state capital, Dr Simat thinks that Darwinian
evolution is not a scientific theory so much as an expression of dogma
-- a sort of blind faith among mainstream scientists predicated on a
rejection of God as the creator of the Earth.

God may have set off the Big Bang, God may even have created the
first life forms on Earth, but there's no _reason_ to attribute
a special creation of the Earth or of humans to supernatural
intervention.

Kansas evolution
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/d139b633236f3c4c

How long before Kansas evolves?
--Jeff
--
As the Government of the United
States of America is not, in any
sense, founded on the Christian
religion...
--Treaty with Tripoli, 1797
.
User: "Jez"

Title: Re: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin andGodin schools 07 May 2005 07:12:18 AM
Jeffrey Turner wrote:

maff wrote:


Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in
schools
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=636310



God is everywhere, including schools

Is that why we see him everywhere ?
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
.
User: "John Wilkins"

Title: Re: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin andGodinschools 07 May 2005 09:15:16 AM
Jez wrote:

Jeffrey Turner wrote:

maff wrote:



Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in
schools
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=636310



God is everywhere, including schools



Is that why we see him everywhere ?

I thought we only saw him in shadows, coffee and damp stains, and on
burnt toast...
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
.
User: "AC"

Title: Re: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin andGodinschools 07 May 2005 10:22:14 PM
On Sun, 08 May 2005 00:15:16 +1000,
John Wilkins <j.wilkins1@uq.edu.au> wrote:

Jez wrote:

Jeffrey Turner wrote:

maff wrote:



Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in
schools
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=636310



God is everywhere, including schools



Is that why we see him everywhere ?

I thought we only saw him in shadows, coffee and damp stains, and on
burnt toast...

And never forget highway underpasses.
--
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
.
User: "Jeffrey Turner"

Title: Re: Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin andGodinschools 07 May 2005 11:21:19 PM
AC wrote:

On Sun, 08 May 2005 00:15:16 +1000,
John Wilkins <j.wilkins1@uq.edu.au> wrote:

Jez wrote:

Jeffrey Turner wrote:


maff wrote:




Fundamental questions: America debates the place of Darwin and God in
schools
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=636310



God is everywhere, including schools



Is that why we see him everywhere ?


I thought we only saw him in shadows, coffee and damp stains, and on
burnt toast...


And never forget highway underpasses.

Shucks, I'd already done that.
--Jeff
--
As the Government of the United
States of America is not, in any
sense, founded on the Christian
religion...
--Treaty with Tripoli, 1797
.






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