| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Cymek-Ajax" |
| Date: |
02 Oct 2006 03:09:51 PM |
| Object: |
Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis “day,” though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth’s condition was just before
that first “day” began: “Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God’s
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters.”—Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
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| User: "Cymek-Ajax" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 04:26:31 AM |
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Neil Kelsey wrote:
I'm not a scientist and all, but I'd like to know how something that's
formless can have a watery deep?
Jupiter has a satellite believed to have a watery deep.
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| User: "Swifty" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
04 Oct 2006 01:37:30 AM |
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"Cymek-Ajax" <mrclean@latrine.net> wrote in message
news:b1qUg.18163$Oh3.10743@trnddc04...
is Antonio L Santana aka jabriol.
(Aware that Antonio L. Santana using many aliases, anonymous remailers and
email addresses is searching for someone to possibly murder the Gulley
family I post this in the hope it saves her life from this homicidal porn
addicted person also
known as JABRIOL.)
From: Vance Liscomb <Vance_member@newsguy.com> another Jehovah's Witness
Subject: Re: For Carolyn Gulley (Correction) Antonio L Santana's victim.
In article <dnf0qs02kqh@drn.newsguy.com>, Vance Liscomb says...
You have the wrong address. He lives with Norma I. Santanta
(born September 1959) and his address is:
Antonio L. (and Norma) Santana
1064 Everett Street
Camden, NJ
(856) 968-0004
His phone number is listed under A. Santana. He was born 1961.
Oddly enough he lives across the street from the West Jersey
Hospital.
http://terraserver-
usa.com/image.aspx?T=
1&S=10&Z=18&X=2454&Y=
22098&W=1&qs=1064+Eve
rett+Street%7ccamden%
7cnew+jersey%7c&Addr=1064+Everett+St%2c+Camden%2c+NJ+08104&ALon=-
75.1075127&ALat=39.9275305
There are two Kingdom Halls in the area:
1584 S 8th St Camden, NJ 08104-1469 (856) 365-0065
417 Walnut St Camden, NJ 08103-2033 (856) 365-4457
Remember, Kingdom Halls are just buildings. There may be more
than one congregation using the same KH.
I doubt that he is a Jehovah's Witness (*he is), so you might want to
ask for Norma Santana as well when you call.
I called the 856-365-0065 number but it was changed to:
856-964-6712
A recording with a lady's voice with a Spanish accent asked me to leave a
message. This is a home phone - probably that of an elder in a Spanish
congregation. The 1584 S 8th St Kingdom Hall is only a few blocks from
where Antonio lives.
It's possible that the information that you've been posting about Antonio
has been wrong all along.
Regards Vance
NNTP-Posting-Host: p-282.newsdawg.com
Antonio give us a fine witness.
"Jabriol" <geister@mailinator.com> wrote in message
It wasn't a snake. It was my foreskin. Happen a lot when I read
them porn stories on the net. I dont believe in mineral oil.
.
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| User: "Martin" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 06:41:42 AM |
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Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
I'm not a scientist and all, but I'd like to know how something that's
formless can have a watery deep?
Jupiter has a satellite believed to have a watery deep.
And it's 'formless' is it?
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| User: "Nosterill" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 06:16:09 AM |
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Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
I'm not a scientist and all, but I'd like to know how something that's
formless can have a watery deep?
Jupiter has a satellite believed to have a watery deep.
Are you suggesting that it is a formless satellite?
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 07:51:26 AM |
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On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:26:31 GMT, Cymek-Ajax <mrclean@latrine.net>
wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
I'm not a scientist and all, but I'd like to know how something that's
formless can have a watery deep?
Jupiter has a satellite believed to have a watery deep.
The Hebrew of Genesis 1:2 (formless and void) is "tohu va bohu"
marked by the figure Paronomasia (Rhyming Words) to denote desolation
and emptiness.
Genesis 1:2 KJV
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the
face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the
waters.
The second verb "was" is in italics; but the first isn't. There is no
Hebrew verb "to be" of which "was" is a form. The verse should begin
"And the earth became without form, and void". It wasn't created that
way. The word face is plural, faces of the deep and faces of the
waters marked by the figure Pleonasm (Redundancy) denoting the
multifaceted features of the surface (as a face has many features).
Without light and no Sun; the wates would have been frozen.
......
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 11:01:42 AM |
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Bible Bob wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:26:31 GMT, Cymek-Ajax <mrclean@latrine.net>
wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
I'm not a scientist and all, but I'd like to know how something that's
formless can have a watery deep?
Jupiter has a satellite believed to have a watery deep.
The Hebrew of Genesis 1:2 (formless and void) is "tohu va bohu"
marked by the figure Paronomasia (Rhyming Words) to denote desolation
and emptiness.
Genesis 1:2 KJV
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the
face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the
waters.
The second verb "was" is in italics; but the first isn't. There is no
Hebrew verb "to be" of which "was" is a form. The verse should begin
"And the earth became without form, and void". It wasn't created that
way.
Do you work as an extra on the Simpsons? I've never seen you and
Reverend Lovejoy in the same room...
For once I agree with you. The earth wasn't created "that way." It was
formed from coalescing interstellar dust over billions of years through
natural processes.
The word face is plural, faces of the deep and faces of the
waters marked by the figure Pleonasm (Redundancy) denoting the
multifaceted features of the surface (as a face has many features).
Without light and no Sun; the wates would have been frozen.
Without the sun, there would have been no water to BE frozen. The earth
could not have formed prior to the sun, it took the sun's gravitational
field to capture the material that would eventually form to become the
earth.
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
04 Oct 2006 10:59:16 PM |
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On 3 Oct 2006 09:01:42 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Bible Bob wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:26:31 GMT, Cymek-Ajax <mrclean@latrine.net>
wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
I'm not a scientist and all, but I'd like to know how something that's
formless can have a watery deep?
Jupiter has a satellite believed to have a watery deep.
The Hebrew of Genesis 1:2 (formless and void) is "tohu va bohu"
marked by the figure Paronomasia (Rhyming Words) to denote desolation
and emptiness.
Genesis 1:2 KJV
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the
face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the
waters.
The second verb "was" is in italics; but the first isn't. There is no
Hebrew verb "to be" of which "was" is a form. The verse should begin
"And the earth became without form, and void". It wasn't created that
way.
Do you work as an extra on the Simpsons? I've never seen you and
Reverend Lovejoy in the same room...
For once I agree with you. The earth wasn't created "that way." It was
formed from coalescing interstellar dust over billions of years through
natural processes.
The word face is plural, faces of the deep and faces of the
waters marked by the figure Pleonasm (Redundancy) denoting the
multifaceted features of the surface (as a face has many features).
Without light and no Sun; the wates would have been frozen.
Without the sun, there would have been no water to BE frozen. The earth
could not have formed prior to the sun, it took the sun's gravitational
field to capture the material that would eventually form to become the
earth.
Is that so? Consider what follows if you consider yourself a
scientist. What if t God created an original heaven and an original
earth.
Genesis 1:1 KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Setting aside the spiritual realm (heavens), what if the entire
universe collapsed into one mass of matter. What if that mass was
without form and void and dark and cold and water in the form of ice
covered the deep surface of the mass?
Then, what if a supernatural force caused the mass to move through the
vacuum of space and in the process caused it to rotate. What would
happen to a large mass rotating around a greater object while
spinning? What if all of this occured prior to Day One? What if
those processes took longer than one day?
Genesis 1:2 KJV
And the earth was [became] without form, and void; and darkness [was]
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face
of the waters.
What if on day one radiant energy was introduced from within or from
without the mass to produce heat and light? Would that radiant energy
melt the ice, separate solids from liquid, and gases from solids and
liquids?
Genesis 1:3 KJV
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Genesis 1:4 KJV
And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light
from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 KJV
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And
the evening and the morning were the first day.
If one side of the mass was light while the other was dark, what
affect would temperature change have as a result of rotation and
gravity?
What if the supernatural force desired one mass surrounded by other
masses? Would separating the waters containing minerals and gases and
liquids into parts be possible for one who could do what has been done
thus far? In other words, could one chunk be for the earth and other
chunks for other celestial bodies?
Genesis 1:6 KJV
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and
let it divide the waters from the waters.
Genesis 1:7 KJV
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under
the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it
was so.
Genesis 1:8 KJV
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning
were the second day.
The Heaven which is the atmosphere above the surface of the earth Was
it produced from gases generated by the heating of the waters?
And could not the minerals also be separted from the waters to form
dry land which was watered to produce plant life? Was what was needed
for plant life in existence on day thre according to Genesis? Yes.
Genesis 1:14 KJV
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to
divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for
seasons, and for days, and years:
Genesis 1:15 KJV
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give
light upon the earth: and it was so.
Genesis 1:16 KJV
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and
the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
Genesis 1:17 KJV
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the
earth,
Genesis 1:18 KJV
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light
from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.
Genesis 1:19 KJV
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Notice that it says God "made"; not God created the celestial bodies
and "set" them where He wanted them. Could nopt they have been made
from the separation of the mass? Remember, goatherders are reported
to have written this account prior to photosynthesis and chemistry and
physics being discovered by scientists.
Genesis 1:20 KJV
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving
creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in
the open firmament of heaven.
Genesis 1:21 KJV
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth,
which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every
winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
Genesis 1:22 KJV
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the
waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Genesis 1:23 KJV
And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
By day five everyhting needed to support animal life was present on
the earth. Do you think goatherders figured all this stuff out an
wrote it down; or, do you think maybe aliens told them what to write?
The point is that the critics speak against what they do not
understand. Goatherders spoke about what they udnerstood the way they
understood it. Who is the smarter of the two groups?
......
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
05 Oct 2006 04:11:14 PM |
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Bible Bob wrote:
<snip>
Is that so? Consider what follows if you consider yourself a
scientist. What if t God created an original heaven and an original
earth.
Genesis 1:1 KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Those who can actually read the text agree with the scholars who say this is
a mistranslation and that creation out of nothing was a late concept.
Of course BB does not believe in scholarship or in the ability to actually
read anything but a poor translation.
"The correct translation by Hebrew scholars of the JPS, from the traditional
Hebrew text, which makes much more sense, is:
"When God [ELOHIM] began to create heaven and earth -- the earth being
unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and a wind
from God [ELOHIM] sweeping over the water -- God [ELOHIM] said, 'Let there
be light'; and there was light."
The story tells us that the ELOHIM found an "unformed and void",
water-covered earth, out of which was formed the whole universe, referred to
as "heaven and earth". How could this be? Only by assuming, as the story
does, that the Sun, Moon and all the stars are tiny lights affixed to the
solid sky dome which is also holding back the "waters above".
The story reflects the primitive cosmography known and held by the ancient
authors."
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| User: "Gilbertus Albans" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
05 Oct 2006 04:55:11 PM |
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Mike Painter wrote:
Bible Bob wrote:
<snip>
Is that so? Consider what follows if you consider yourself a
scientist. What if t God created an original heaven and an original
earth.
Genesis 1:1 KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Those who can actually read the text agree with the scholars who say this is
a mistranslation and that creation out of nothing was a late concept.
Of course BB does not believe in scholarship or in the ability to actually
read anything but a poor translation.
"The correct translation by Hebrew scholars of the JPS, from the traditional
Hebrew text, which makes much more sense, is:
"When God [ELOHIM] began to create heaven and earth -- the earth being
unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and a wind
from God [ELOHIM] sweeping over the water -- God [ELOHIM] said, 'Let there
be light'; and there was light."
The story tells us that the ELOHIM found an "unformed and void",
water-covered earth, out of which was formed the whole universe, referred to
as "heaven and earth". How could this be?
It can not be.
Only by assuming, as the story
does, that the Sun, Moon and all the stars are tiny lights affixed to the
solid sky dome which is also holding back the "waters above".
The story reflects the primitive cosmography known and held by the ancient
authors."
I explained this before I shall do so again, “‘Let light come to be.’
Then there came to be light. And God began calling the light Day, but
the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there
came to be morning, a first day.”—Genesis 1:3, 5.
Of course the sun and moon were in outer space long before this first
“day,” but their light did not reach the surface of the earth for an
earthly observer to see. Now, light evidently came to be visible on
earth on this first “day,” and the rotating earth began to have
alternating days and nights.
Apparently, the light came in a gradual process, extending over a long
period of time, not instantaneously as when you turn on an electric
light bulb. The Genesis rendering by translator J. W. Watts reflects
this when it says: “And gradually light came into existence.” (A
Distinctive Translation of Genesis) This light was from the sun, but the
sun itself could not be seen through the overcast. Hence, the light that
reached earth was “light diffused,” as indicated by a comment about
verse 3 in Rotherham’s Emphasised Bible.—See footnote b for verse 14.
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| User: "Spider-Mek-359" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
06 Oct 2006 06:42:53 PM |
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Gilbertus Albans wrote:
I explained this before I shall do so again, "'Let light come to be.'
Then there came to be light. And God began calling the light Day, but
the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there
came to be morning, a first day."-Genesis 1:3, 5.
Of course the sun and moon were in outer space long before this first
"day," but their light did not reach the surface of the earth for an
earthly observer to see. Now, light evidently came to be visible on
earth on this first "day," and the rotating earth began to have
alternating days and nights.
So step one was to find a water planet and examine it as mentioned in
Gen 1:12
Then One has to figure out how get sunlight to the surface. An
intersting challenge I wonder how would modern science and technolgy
would solve this problem.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
05 Oct 2006 11:39:54 AM |
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Bible Bob wrote:
On 3 Oct 2006 09:01:42 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Bible Bob wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:26:31 GMT, Cymek-Ajax <mrclean@latrine.net>
wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
I'm not a scientist and all, but I'd like to know how something that's
formless can have a watery deep?
Jupiter has a satellite believed to have a watery deep.
The Hebrew of Genesis 1:2 (formless and void) is "tohu va bohu"
marked by the figure Paronomasia (Rhyming Words) to denote desolation
and emptiness.
Genesis 1:2 KJV
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the
face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the
waters.
The second verb "was" is in italics; but the first isn't. There is no
Hebrew verb "to be" of which "was" is a form. The verse should begin
"And the earth became without form, and void". It wasn't created that
way.
Do you work as an extra on the Simpsons? I've never seen you and
Reverend Lovejoy in the same room...
For once I agree with you. The earth wasn't created "that way." It was
formed from coalescing interstellar dust over billions of years through
natural processes.
The word face is plural, faces of the deep and faces of the
waters marked by the figure Pleonasm (Redundancy) denoting the
multifaceted features of the surface (as a face has many features).
Without light and no Sun; the wates would have been frozen.
Without the sun, there would have been no water to BE frozen. The earth
could not have formed prior to the sun, it took the sun's gravitational
field to capture the material that would eventually form to become the
earth.
Is that so? Consider what follows if you consider yourself a
scientist. What if t God created an original heaven and an original
earth.
I'm not a scientist and yet I will consider what follows. Before that,
though, I will consider what preceded. You are assumimg god exists in
your last sentence. I don't. Right off the bat, I disagree with your
premise. But let's move on.
Genesis 1:1 KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Setting aside the spiritual realm (heavens), what if the entire
universe collapsed into one mass of matter. What if that mass was
without form and void and dark and cold and water in the form of ice
covered the deep surface of the mass?
I don't think you have to be a scientist to see the flaws in this
scenario. Hell, a six year old could figure it out. If something has no
form where are you going to put the ice? Do you know what form means?
It means shape, it means substance. If the universe has none of those
attributes, it doesn't exist. And since the ice is part of the entire
universe that you have supposedly collapsed into a formless void, then
the ice doesn't exist either, it being part of the collapsed universe.
Then, what if a supernatural force caused the mass to move through the
vacuum of space and in the process caused it to rotate.
First of all, there are no supernatural forces. What we think are
supernatural forces are only the delusions of the superstitious.
Second, if that mass has no form and is a void, it doesn't exist to
move through space, which, by the way, is now open for review. If there
is no matter (you've removed it, remember?) then what does that do for
space, since matter defines space in a way. Without anything to relate
with, there are no distances between objects anymore, since there are
no objects. Finally, nothing would be rotating because nothing exists.
The universe has no form, remember?
What would
happen to a large mass rotating around a greater object while
spinning?
ACKK!!! There IS no large mass. You've already disintegrated all matter
in the universe.
What if all of this occured prior to Day One? What if
those processes took longer than one day?
Holy *****, you should have attended more science lessons. That aside,
your Holy Book says nothing about anything occuring prior to Day 1. Now
I'm all for thinking outside the box, but if on one hand you can say
the Bible is the unerring word of god and on the other you can perform
mental gymnastics like inventing a time prior to Day 1, then you might
as well just give up. What are you talking about, a Day Zero? Please.
Genesis 1:2 KJV
And the earth was [became] without form, and void; and darkness [was]
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face
of the waters.
What if on day one radiant energy was introduced from within or from
without the mass to produce heat and light?
Explain the physics.
Would that radiant energy
melt the ice, separate solids from liquid, and gases from solids and
liquids?
There is no ice, there are no solids or liquids or gasses, you've
turned them all into a formless void.
*oops, I accidently erased part of your post in here. It's the part
about the earth being without form and then somehow various things
happen to it, even though it doesn't exist, by definition*
Again you've got the same problem, only this time suddenly it is the
earth that is without form. Consult a dictionary and see what the word
"form" means.
Genesis 1:3 KJV
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Genesis 1:4 KJV
And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light
from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 KJV
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And
the evening and the morning were the first day.
If one side of the mass was light while the other was dark, what
affect would temperature change have as a result of rotation and
gravity?
Okay, I'm going to proceed with your formless void somehow having
become a planet.
This light you're talking about, does it have a source? Or is it all
prevasive light? Because if it is, then there would not be a light side
and a dark side. And where is the temperature change going to come
from? There was no mention of heat, there was only mention of light.
Of course I know we're talking about the sun, my point here is that the
Bible is so ignorant of science it didn't mention the sun as the source
of heat and light. They had an excuse, they being bronze age goat
herders; you have no excuse.
What if the supernatural force desired one mass surrounded by other
masses?
Great. We don't understand simple physics so we'll make up a
supernatural force. On second thought, forget the six year old. My dog
makes more sense than you, and I don't have a dog.
Would separating the waters containing minerals and gases and
liquids into parts be possible for one who could do what has been done
thus far?
Leaping Lizards! All you've done is describe things that can't happen
even in a world where the supernatural exists, and now you're glibly
proceeding as if you've established all your premises? It is clear that
this "one" has done anything, since you have him doing impossible
things. And by the way, where did he come from?
In other words, could one chunk be for the earth and other
chunks for other celestial bodies?
No. The earth coalesced from matter created in the big bang and
subsequent supernovae. Next.
Genesis 1:6 KJV
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and
let it divide the waters from the waters.
Genesis 1:7 KJV
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under
the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it
was so.
Genesis 1:8 KJV
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning
were the second day.
The Heaven which is the atmosphere above the surface of the earth Was
it produced from gases generated by the heating of the waters?
Heaven is the atmosphere? Get out. Are apples now oranges? Are dogs
cats? Come on, the atmosphere is the layer of gas surrounding a planet
and held there by gravity. Heaven is the place where god lives. Get
your nouns straight.
And could not the minerals also be separted from the waters to form
dry land which was watered to produce plant life? Was what was needed
for plant life in existence on day thre according to Genesis? Yes.
NO! You've already somehow got a big rock which used to be a formless
void. The big rock has different elevations, and it has some water on
it. The water will settle in the lower elevations, and leave the higher
elevations out of the water. There was no separating the minerals from
the water. Holy flying god dung, you ought to pay some respect to
people who actually study these subjects (not me), like geologists,
astrophysicists, and chemists! You are so uneducated you're making me
want to cry, and you have the nerve to parade your complete ignorance
around as a source of pride? You ought to give yourself a good, honest
reappraisal, because you are not what you think you are.
Genesis 1:14 KJV
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to
divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for
seasons, and for days, and years:
Genesis 1:15 KJV
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give
light upon the earth: and it was so.
Genesis 1:16 KJV
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and
the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
Genesis 1:17 KJV
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the
earth,
Genesis 1:18 KJV
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light
from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.
Genesis 1:19 KJV
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Notice that it says God "made"; not God created the celestial bodies
and "set" them where He wanted them.
Explain the difference betwen "made" and "created." in this context.
Explain why I should think an invisible gigantic reclusive supernatural
creature who only seems to communicate with delusional people "set" the
celestial bodies anywhere when the natural force of gravity works
perfectly well all by itself.
Could nopt they have been made
from the separation of the mass? Remember, goatherders are reported
to have written this account prior to photosynthesis and chemistry and
physics being discovered by scientists.
It shows. Kudos to them for taking a stab at it, though. I don't see
why you are so attatched to the early attempts by HUMANS to explain the
workings of the universe. They obviously had a lot to learn. Why do you
think all knowledge started and stopped there?
Genesis 1:20 KJV
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving
creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in
the open firmament of heaven.
Genesis 1:21 KJV
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth,
which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every
winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
Genesis 1:22 KJV
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the
waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Genesis 1:23 KJV
And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
By day five everyhting needed to support animal life was present on
the earth. Do you think goatherders figured all this stuff out an
wrote it down; or, do you think maybe aliens told them what to write?
I don't think they figured anything out, but they seem to have had more
on the ball than you do.
The point is that the critics speak against what they do not
understand.
I almost got hit by the shrapnel of my irony meter breaking just now.
You don't even understand what it is YOU'RE supporting, let alone
something as complex as basic science. YOU don't understand what the
critics are saying, it is beyond you. I'd be a lot kinder if you
weren't being such a pompous ***** about your ignorance.
Goatherders spoke about what they udnerstood the way they
understood it. Who is the smarter of the two groups?
No they didn't. Goatherders spoke about what they were trying to
understand, that doesnt mean they understood it. Some (hardly any) of
it turned out to be true, some of it didn't. As to who is the smarter
of the two groups, I'd say it's about the same. Each group has flexible
intelligent curious people who try to figure things out (and are
willing to discared ideas that don't work), and each group has
inflexible egotistical loudmouth tyrants who will cling to their
traditional beliefs and bully others, no matter how absurd they prove
to be. I would think the percentages of these two types of people are
about the same.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
05 Oct 2006 04:14:02 PM |
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Then, what if a supernatural force caused the mass to move through
the vacuum of space and in the process caused it to rotate.
Here BB shows he knows nothing of science (again or still) but what can be
expected from a man who says, "A theory is a guess, speculation, abstract
thought, a guess based on
some facts; but then facts are not truth so it is all about theory."
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| User: "Gilbertus Albans" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
05 Oct 2006 06:28:34 AM |
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Bible Bob wrote:
Genesis 1:2 KJV
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the
face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the
waters.
The second verb "was" is in italics; but the first isn't. There is no
Hebrew verb "to be" of which "was" is a form. The verse should begin
"And the earth became without form, and void". It wasn't created that
way.
Do you work as an extra on the Simpsons? I've never seen you and
Reverend Lovejoy in the same room...
For once I agree with you. The earth wasn't created "that way." It was
formed from coalescing interstellar dust over billions of years through
natural processes.
The word face is plural, faces of the deep and faces of the
waters marked by the figure Pleonasm (Redundancy) denoting the
multifaceted features of the surface (as a face has many features).
Without light and no Sun; the wates would have been frozen.
Not really. If you read Gen 1:2 properly, from a human point of view the
planet was a water planet. No dry land at all. if you are go down to the
land surface under water, there would be no light. Experienced deep sea
diver knows that it is dark down there.
Genesis 1:1 KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Setting aside the spiritual realm (heavens), what if the entire
universe collapsed into one mass of matter. What if that mass was
without form and void and dark and cold and water in the form of ice
covered the deep surface of the mass?
Then, what if a supernatural force caused the mass to move through the
vacuum of space and in the process caused it to rotate.
I have a problem with the use of the word Supernatural. If a man flies
that would be supernatural, but not so for a duck. We are talking
about terraforming a planet by a superior civilization It may seem
supernatural to us, magic maybe. But not to them.
What would
happen to a large mass rotating around a greater object while
spinning? What if all of this occured prior to Day One? What if
those processes took longer than one day?
Genesis 1:2 KJV
And the earth was [became] without form, and void; and darkness [was]
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face
of the waters.
What if on day one radiant energy was introduced from within or from
without the mass to produce heat and light? Would that radiant energy
melt the ice, separate solids from liquid, and gases from solids and
liquids?
Genesis 1:3 KJV
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
I see you have entered the first creative period, “‘Let light come to
be.’ Then there came to be light. And God began calling the light Day,
but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there
came to be morning, a first day.”—Genesis 1:3, 5.
Of course the sun and moon were in outer space long before this first
“day,” but their light did not reach the surface of the earth for an
earthly observer to see. Now, light evidently came to be visible on
earth on this first “day,” and the rotating earth began to have
alternating days and nights.
Apparently, the light came in a gradual process, extending over a long
period of time, not instantaneously as when you turn on an electric
light bulb. The Genesis rendering by translator J. W. Watts reflects
this when it says: “And gradually light came into existence.” (A
Distinctive Translation of Genesis) This light was from the sun, but the
sun itself could not be seen through the overcast. Hence, the light that
reached earth was “light diffused,” as indicated by a comment about
verse 3 in Rotherham’s Emphasised Bible.—See footnote b for verse 14.
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| User: "Josh Miles" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
02 Oct 2006 10:23:56 PM |
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Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis “day,” though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth’s condition was just before
that first “day” began: “Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God’s
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters.”—Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That it's absolute nonsense.
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| User: "Cymek-Ajax" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 04:33:01 AM |
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Josh Miles wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis “day,” though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth’s condition was just before
that first “day” began: “Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God’s
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters.”—Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That it's absolute nonsense.
The you are an idiot because you replied to a nonsensical thread.
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| User: "Josh Miles" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 10:59:22 AM |
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Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Josh Miles wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis “day,” though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth’s condition was just before
that first “day” began: “Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God’s
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters.”—Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That it's absolute nonsense.
The you are an idiot because you replied to a nonsensical thread.
Hey, retard, you asked a question and I answered it. You asked "what can
a scientists [sic] extract from these words in Gen 1:2?" and I gave you
an honest answer: that they would say those words are absolute nonsense.
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| User: "Cymek-Ajax" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 04:34:51 PM |
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Josh Miles wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Josh Miles wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis “day,” though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth’s condition was just before
that first “day” began: “Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God’s
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters.”—Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That it's absolute nonsense.
The you are an idiot because you replied to a nonsensical thread.
Hey, retard, you asked a question and I answered it. You asked "what can
a scientists [sic] extract from these words in Gen 1:2?" and I gave you
an honest answer: that they would say those words are absolute nonsense.
And you are the president of the "scientist" club. Or they elected you
their spokeperson.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
02 Oct 2006 07:21:58 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:09:51 GMT Cymek-Ajax <mrclean@latrine.net>
said the following in alt.atheism and I was immediately reminded of
1,000 Chinchillas singing Handel's "Messiah" for some reason...
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis “day,” though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth’s condition was just before
that first “day” began: “Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God’s
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters.”—Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
Nothing. The Earth had a form - spherical - long before it cooled
enough for water to precipitate out and form oceans.
And you cannot focus on one verse at a time and ignore the larger
context. Genesis has the Earth, and indeed life on Earth appearing
long before the Sun, Moon, and the rest of the stars in the universe.
This is incorrect.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
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| User: "Cymek-Ajax" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 04:29:52 AM |
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Douglas Berry wrote:
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
Nothing. The Earth had a form - spherical - long before it cooled
enough for water to precipitate out and form oceans.
And you cannot focus on one verse at a time and ignore the larger
context.
Yes you can. I am not intent on bashing creationist or atheist here. I
am looking at terraforming Gen 1:12 says a lot.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
02 Oct 2006 08:25:19 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:09:51 +0000, Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth by
a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of Genesis
indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of years before
the first Genesis "day," though it does not say for how long. However,
it does describe what earth's condition was just before that first
"day" began: "Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and
there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God's active
force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."-Genesis
1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That Genesis, and the bible in general, is a lousy science book. It's
almost as if it were written by superstitious Bronze Age goat herders, who
had no knowledge of planetary mechanics.
--
MarkA
(this space accidentally filled in)
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| User: "=?iso-8859-1?B?fiBT5GJs6yB+?=" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 10:34:42 AM |
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"MarkA" <toor@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.10.03.01.25.13.449136@nowhere.com...
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:09:51 +0000, Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by
a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of Genesis
indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of years before
the first Genesis "day," though it does not say for how long. However,
it does describe what earth's condition was just before that first
"day" began: "Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and
there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God's active
force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."-Genesis
1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That Genesis, and the bible in general, is a lousy science book. It's
almost as if it were written by superstitious Bronze Age goat herders, who
had no knowledge of planetary mechanics.
That's exactly who wrote the mumbo jumbo in the ancient scrolls and other
superstitious nonsense but this crap always made the priests RICH. ;-)
When the sect, cult or religion failed to enrich those in power it
eventually failed and drifted into obscurity.
--
SA........
What the world needs is not dogma but an attitude of scientific
inquiry combined with a belief that the torture of millions is
not desirable, whether inflicted by Stalin or by a Deity imagined
in the likeness of the believer. ~ Bertrand Russell ~
~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~
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| User: "Cymek-Ajax" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 04:31:48 AM |
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MarkA wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:09:51 +0000, Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth by
a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of Genesis
indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of years before
the first Genesis "day," though it does not say for how long. However,
it does describe what earth's condition was just before that first
"day" began: "Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and
there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God's active
force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."-Genesis
1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That Genesis, and the bible in general, is a lousy science book.
The Bible is not a science manual. And has nothing to do with the thread.
It's
almost as if it were written by superstitious Bronze Age goat herders, who
had no knowledge of planetary mechanics.
Now you went off topic.
.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 06:52:32 AM |
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On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:31:48 +0000, Cymek-Ajax wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:09:51 +0000, Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis "day," though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth's condition was just before
that first "day" began: "Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God's
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters."-Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That Genesis, and the bible in general, is a lousy science book.
The Bible is not a science manual. And has nothing to do with the thread.
It's
almost as if it were written by superstitious Bronze Age goat herders,
who had no knowledge of planetary mechanics.
Now you went off topic.
I'm sorry; I foolishly assumed you were referring to the Genesis chapter
that appears in a book commonly called, "The Holy Bible", and that you
were asking about its scientific accuracy. Apparently, you have your own
meaning that you assign to common words. Could you restate your request,
using English?
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
02 Oct 2006 10:34:50 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Cymek-Ajax
(mrclean@latrine.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis “day,” though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth’s condition was just before
that first “day” began: “Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God’s
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters.”—Genesis 1:2.
Where do the dinosaurs fit in?
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That creationists are subhuman idiots.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man
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| User: "=?iso-8859-1?B?fiBT5GJs6yB+?=" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 10:42:42 AM |
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"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9850D15BCE603vicman@216.196.97.136...
That creationists are subhuman idiots.
Not all of them. Most are uneducated trusting naive people who are tricked
and beguiled into believing Creation Science. Actually I've seen no SCIENCE
from any creationist. All they do is waggle their bible in your face as
proof....... never mind their bible is a copy of a copy of a copy until
it's impossible to know what the originals actually said.
--
SA...
"Thou seest the mote in thy non-JW brother's eye, but thou seest not the
beam
in thine own JW eye. When thou castest the beam out of thine own JW eye,
then wilt thou see clearly to cast the mote from thy non-JW brother's eye."
~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ ~~ * ~~
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 02:01:26 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet ~ Säblë ~
(Sable666@gmail.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9850D15BCE603vicman@216.196.97.136...
That creationists are subhuman idiots.
Not all of them. Most are uneducated trusting naive people who are
tricked and beguiled into believing Creation Science. Actually I've
seen no SCIENCE from any creationist. All they do is waggle their
bible in your face as proof....... never mind their bible is a copy
of a copy of a copy until it's impossible to know what the originals
actually said.
"Creation Science" begins with a conclusion and works backward from there,
constructing "facts" that lead up to the conclusion they have pre-ordained.
That is not science at all.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man
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| User: "Cymek-Ajax" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 04:33:31 AM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Cymek-Ajax
(mrclean@latrine.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis “day,” though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth’s condition was just before
that first “day” began: “Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God’s
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters.”—Genesis 1:2.
Where do the dinosaurs fit in?
later on.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That creationists are subhuman idiots.
off topic.
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 02:03:48 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Cymek-Ajax
(mrclean@latrine.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Uncle Vic wrote:
Where do the dinosaurs fit in?
later on.
Please enlighten us.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a
scientists extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That creationists are subhuman idiots.
off topic.
This is a discussion about Genesis and its relationship to science.
Creationism's specific relationship to this topic could be described as
"identity".
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man
.
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| User: "Cymek-Ajax" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 04:35:59 PM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Cymek-Ajax
(mrclean@latrine.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Uncle Vic wrote:
Where do the dinosaurs fit in?
later on.
Please enlighten us.
soon enough...
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a
scientists extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That creationists are subhuman idiots.
off topic.
This is a discussion about Genesis and its relationship to science.
Creationism's specific relationship to this topic could be described as
"identity".
Creationism is not discussed in this thread.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 08:04:45 PM |
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Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Cymek-Ajax
(mrclean@latrine.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Uncle Vic wrote:
Where do the dinosaurs fit in?
Booh review: The Great Dinosaur extinction controversy
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/1757/
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dinosaur?
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/407/
Where are all the human fossils?
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3670
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a
scientist extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That creationists are subhuman idiots.
Denigration does nothing to further
the resolution of the creation/evolution controversy.
Creationists are people just as evolutionists are.
with studies at Secondary School level
and some to Tertiary & some to research levels.
They are just as capable over those study levels as evolutionists
and, I would think without any research studies to confirm it,
that more have studied both sides of the issue
than for those who accept only evolution from the indoctrination
given in State educational institutions
off topic.
This is a discussion about Genesis and its relationship to science.
Creationism's specific relationship to this topic could be described as
"identity".
Creationism is not discussed in this thread.
As the set topic is 'Genesis transforming the planet'
and as Genesis (Bible) gives information about Creation
I am of the opinion that it IS part of this topic.
Gladys Swager
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