| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Cymek-Ajax" |
| Date: |
02 Oct 2006 08:09:51 PM |
| Object: |
Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis “day,” though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth’s condition was just before
that first “day” began: “Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God’s
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters.”—Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
02 Oct 2006 10:10:29 PM |
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Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the
Earth by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part
of Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis “day,” though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth’s condition was just before
that first “day” began: “Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God’s
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters.”—Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That it's one of two creation stories in the bible and has no more relation
to what happened than any other creation story from any other source.
.
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| User: "Cymek-Ajax" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
02 Oct 2006 10:28:39 PM |
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Mike Painter wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the
Earth by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part
of Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis “day,” though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth’s condition was just before
that first “day” began: “Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God’s
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters.”—Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
That it's one of two creation stories in the bible and has no more relation
to what happened than any other creation story from any other source.
My focus is now on Gen 1:2. You did not answer the question.
.
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| User: "Swifty" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
04 Oct 2006 06:37:06 AM |
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"Cymek-Ajax" aka Antonio L Santana/jabriol<mrclean@latrine.net> wrote in
message news:rogUg.873$If3.261@trnddc07...
is Antonio L Santana aka jabriol.
(Aware that Antonio L. Santana using many aliases, anonymous remailers and
email addresses is searching for someone to possibly murder the Gulley
family I post this in the hope it saves her life from this homicidal porn
addicted person also
known as JABRIOL.)
From: Vance Liscomb <Vance_member@newsguy.com> another Jehovah's Witness
Subject: Re: For Carolyn Gulley (Correction) Antonio L Santana's victim.
In article <dnf0qs02kqh@drn.newsguy.com>, Vance Liscomb says...
You have the wrong address. He lives with Norma I. Santanta
(born September 1959) and his address is:
Antonio L. (and Norma) Santana
1064 Everett Street
Camden, NJ
(856) 968-0004
His phone number is listed under A. Santana. He was born 1961.
Oddly enough he lives across the street from the West Jersey
Hospital.
http://terraserver-
usa.com/image.aspx?T=
1&S=10&Z=18&X=2454&Y=
22098&W=1&qs=1064+Eve
rett+Street%7ccamden%
7cnew+jersey%7c&Addr=1064+Everett+St%2c+Camden%2c+NJ+08104&ALon=-
75.1075127&ALat=39.9275305
There are two Kingdom Halls in the area:
1584 S 8th St Camden, NJ 08104-1469 (856) 365-0065
417 Walnut St Camden, NJ 08103-2033 (856) 365-4457
Remember, Kingdom Halls are just buildings. There may be more
than one congregation using the same KH.
I doubt that he is a Jehovah's Witness (*he is), so you might want to
ask for Norma Santana as well when you call.
I called the 856-365-0065 number but it was changed to:
856-964-6712
A recording with a lady's voice with a Spanish accent asked me to leave a
message. This is a home phone - probably that of an elder in a Spanish
congregation. The 1584 S 8th St Kingdom Hall is only a few blocks from
where Antonio lives.
It's possible that the information that you've been posting about Antonio
has been wrong all along.
Regards Vance
NNTP-Posting-Host: p-282.newsdawg.com
Antonio give us a fine witness.
"Jabriol" <geister@mailinator.com> wrote in message
It wasn't a snake. It was my foreskin. Happen a lot when I read
them porn stories on the net. I dont believe in mineral oil.
.
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 01:35:12 AM |
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Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis.
The Genesis I know of doesnt have the earth being terraformed by a
superior civilization.
The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis "day," though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth's condition was just before
that first "day" began: "Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God's
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters."-Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
The same thing plumbers and fruit merchants can extract from them.
Being a scientist gives you no special powers at interpreting ancient
myth.
Mark.
.
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| User: "Sara Brum" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 03:53:12 AM |
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"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1159839312.707743.140130@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis.
The Genesis I know of doesnt have the earth being terraformed by a
superior civilization.
Oh, it does! You just have to squint your eyes almost shut, hold your
tongue just so, and ignore the part of your brain that's desperately trying
to convice you that Genesis is absurd, no matter how you try to interpret
it.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 10:57:12 AM |
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Sara Brum wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1159839312.707743.140130@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis.
The Genesis I know of doesnt have the earth being terraformed by a
superior civilization.
Oh, it does! You just have to squint your eyes almost shut, hold your
tongue just so, and ignore the part of your brain that's desperately trying
to convice you that Genesis is absurd, no matter how you try to interpret
it.
Ummm almost.
Wait I'll try banging my head on the wall a couple of times too.
<thump thump!>
Ouch!
Oh Yeah! There it is!
Aliens terraforming the earth! - With the aid of pink elephants in
tutus.
Funny - He didn't mention the elephants.
Mark.
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| User: "Sara Brum" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 11:56:09 AM |
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<m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1159873032.150072.302910@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Sara Brum wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1159839312.707743.140130@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the
Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis.
The Genesis I know of doesnt have the earth being terraformed by a
superior civilization.
Oh, it does! You just have to squint your eyes almost shut, hold your
tongue just so, and ignore the part of your brain that's desperately
trying
to convice you that Genesis is absurd, no matter how you try to interpret
it.
Ummm almost.
Wait I'll try banging my head on the wall a couple of times too.
<thump thump!>
Ouch!
Oh Yeah! There it is!
Aliens terraforming the earth! - With the aid of pink elephants in
tutus.
Funny - He didn't mention the elephants.
They never do. Elephants are, sadly, unrepresented in the bible. Ivory
gets a mention every now and then, but I bet it wasn't pink. Perhaps the
behemoth of Job 40:15 is an elephant, but I doubt it, judging by the
subsequent description. Unless it was an alien elephant, imported to help
with the terraforming.
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| User: "Cymek-Ajax" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 09:34:00 AM |
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Sara Brum wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1159839312.707743.140130@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis.
The Genesis I know of doesnt have the earth being terraformed by a
superior civilization.
Oh, it does! You just have to squint your eyes almost shut, hold your
tongue just so, and ignore the part of your brain that's desperately trying
to convice you that Genesis is absurd, no matter how you try to interpret
it.
Very good.
.
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| User: "Cymek-Ajax" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 09:32:22 AM |
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Richo wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis.
The Genesis I know of doesnt have the earth being terraformed by a
superior civilization.
Why?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 10:52:20 AM |
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Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Richo wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis.
The Genesis I know of doesnt have the earth being terraformed by a
superior civilization.
Why?
Strange question.
Here is a similar question:
"Why isnt Shakespere's Hamlet about an African Princess who is a happy
and cheerful optomist?"
I dunno - I just read the words and discover that "Hamlet" is a story
about a Danish Prince who is a tragic and unhappy fellow. And I read
Genesis and find its a story (a few different stories actually -
inclucing two creation myths) about God creating the world and
populating it with life in six days by magic.
Mark.
.
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| User: "=?iso-8859-1?B?fiBT5GJs6yB+?=" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 03:39:11 PM |
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<m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1159872740.804343.58830@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
I dunno - I just read the words and discover that "Hamlet" is a story
about a Danish Prince who is a tragic and unhappy fellow. And I read
Genesis and find its a story (a few different stories actually -
inclucing two creation myths) about God creating the world and
populating it with life in six days by magic.
And from THERE it gets even crazier. ;-) Talking snakes. A magic tree
planted right where they can't help find it. A guy who can walk on water
and raise the decomposing dead....... ya can't beat that with a stick.
--
SA....
"Thou seest the mote in thy non-JW brother's eye, but thou seest not the
beam
in thine own JW eye. When thou castest the beam out of thine own JW eye,
then wilt thou see clearly to cast the mote from thy non-JW brother's eye."
===============================================
http://quotes.watchtower.ca/
www.JWFiles.com
www.freeminds.org
www.Watchtowerobserver.org
~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ ~~ * ~~
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| User: "Black-Phoenix-Night" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
04 Oct 2006 02:29:21 AM |
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Off topic... By the way Crol has been placed in ARJW global kill file.
I suggest everyone on this thread do the same.
~ S=E4bl=EB ~ wrote:
<m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1159872740.804343.58830@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
I dunno - I just read the words and discover that "Hamlet" is a story
about a Danish Prince who is a tragic and unhappy fellow. And I read
Genesis and find its a story (a few different stories actually -
inclucing two creation myths) about God creating the world and
populating it with life in six days by magic.
And from THERE it gets even crazier. ;-) Talking snakes. A magic tree
planted right where they can't help find it. A guy who can walk on water
and raise the decomposing dead....... ya can't beat that with a stick.
--
SA....
"Thou seest the mote in thy non-JW brother's eye, but thou seest not the
beam
in thine own JW eye. When thou castest the beam out of thine own JW eye,
then wilt thou see clearly to cast the mote from thy non-JW brother's eye=
.."
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
http://quotes.watchtower.ca/
www.JWFiles.com
www.freeminds.org
www.Watchtowerobserver.org
~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ * ~~ ~~ * ~~
.
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| User: "Swifty" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life - "Black-Phoenix-Night" is another Jabriol sock!!!!!!!! |
04 Oct 2006 06:26:29 AM |
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"Black-Phoenix-Night" <Xabriol@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159928961.033881.146020@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
is Antonio L Santana aka jabriol.
(Aware that Antonio L. Santana using many aliases, anonymous remailers and
email addresses is searching for someone to possibly murder the Gulley
family I post this in the hope it saves her life from this homicidal porn
addicted person also
known as JABRIOL.)
From: Vance Liscomb <Vance_member@newsguy.com> another Jehovah's Witness
Subject: Re: For Carolyn Gulley (Correction) Antonio L Santana's victim.
In article <dnf0qs02kqh@drn.newsguy.com>, Vance Liscomb says...
You have the wrong address. He lives with Norma I. Santanta
(born September 1959) and his address is:
Antonio L. (and Norma) Santana
1064 Everett Street
Camden, NJ
(856) 968-0004
His phone number is listed under A. Santana. He was born 1961.
Oddly enough he lives across the street from the West Jersey
Hospital.
http://terraserver-
usa.com/image.aspx?T=
1&S=10&Z=18&X=2454&Y=
22098&W=1&qs=1064+Eve
rett+Street%7ccamden%
7cnew+jersey%7c&Addr=1064+Everett+St%2c+Camden%2c+NJ+08104&ALon=-
75.1075127&ALat=39.9275305
There are two Kingdom Halls in the area:
1584 S 8th St Camden, NJ 08104-1469 (856) 365-0065
417 Walnut St Camden, NJ 08103-2033 (856) 365-4457
Remember, Kingdom Halls are just buildings. There may be more
than one congregation using the same KH.
I doubt that he is a Jehovah's Witness (*he is), so you might want to
ask for Norma Santana as well when you call.
I called the 856-365-0065 number but it was changed to:
856-964-6712
A recording with a lady's voice with a Spanish accent asked me to leave a
message. This is a home phone - probably that of an elder in a Spanish
congregation. The 1584 S 8th St Kingdom Hall is only a few blocks from
where Antonio lives.
Regards Vance
NNTP-Posting-Host: p-282.newsdawg.com
Antonio give us a fine witness.
"Jabriol" <geister@mailinator.com> wrote in message
It wasn't a snake. It was my foreskin. Happen a lot when I read
them porn stories on the net. I dont believe in mineral oil.
.
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| User: "Gilbertus Albans" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life - "Black-Phoenix-Night"is another Jabriol sock!!!!!!!! |
04 Oct 2006 11:19:41 AM |
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I see this has everything to do with terraforming, not. What an obsessed
idiot. Plonk!!!
Swifty wrote:
"Black-Phoenix-Night" <Xabriol@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159928961.033881.146020@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
is Antonio L Santana aka jabriol.
(Aware that Antonio L. Santana using many aliases, anonymous remailers and
email addresses is searching for someone to possibly murder the Gulley
family I post this in the hope it saves her life from this homicidal porn
addicted person also
known as JABRIOL.)
From: Vance Liscomb <Vance_member@newsguy.com> another Jehovah's Witness
Subject: Re: For Carolyn Gulley (Correction) Antonio L Santana's victim.
In article <dnf0qs02kqh@drn.newsguy.com>, Vance Liscomb says...
You have the wrong address. He lives with Norma I. Santanta
(born September 1959) and his address is:
Antonio L. (and Norma) Santana
1064 Everett Street
Camden, NJ
(856) 968-0004
His phone number is listed under A. Santana. He was born 1961.
Oddly enough he lives across the street from the West Jersey
Hospital.
http://terraserver-
usa.com/image.aspx?T=
1&S=10&Z=18&X=2454&Y=
22098&W=1&qs=1064+Eve
rett+Street%7ccamden%
7cnew+jersey%7c&Addr=1064+Everett+St%2c+Camden%2c+NJ+08104&ALon=-
75.1075127&ALat=39.9275305
There are two Kingdom Halls in the area:
1584 S 8th St Camden, NJ 08104-1469 (856) 365-0065
417 Walnut St Camden, NJ 08103-2033 (856) 365-4457
Remember, Kingdom Halls are just buildings. There may be more
than one congregation using the same KH.
I doubt that he is a Jehovah's Witness (*he is), so you might want to
ask for Norma Santana as well when you call.
I called the 856-365-0065 number but it was changed to:
856-964-6712
A recording with a lady's voice with a Spanish accent asked me to leave a
message. This is a home phone - probably that of an elder in a Spanish
congregation. The 1584 S 8th St Kingdom Hall is only a few blocks from
where Antonio lives.
Regards Vance
NNTP-Posting-Host: p-282.newsdawg.com
Antonio give us a fine witness.
"Jabriol" <geister@mailinator.com> wrote in message
It wasn't a snake. It was my foreskin. Happen a lot when I read
them porn stories on the net. I dont believe in mineral oil.
.
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| User: "Henry Mankinna" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life - "Gilbertus Albans" is another Jabriol sock!!!!!!!! |
04 Oct 2006 05:37:01 PM |
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"Gilbertus Albans" <primemenstat@world.net> wrote in message
news:hNMUg.11301$Zj3.1291@trnddc03...
I see this has everything to do with terraforming, not. What an obsessed
idiot. Plonk!!!
Yep you sure are Antonio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FLUSH....... right down the crapper to be with the rest of the *****.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
04 Oct 2006 06:45:09 PM |
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PLONK
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| User: "ghostwriter" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 03:42:23 PM |
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wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Richo wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis.
The Genesis I know of doesnt have the earth being terraformed by a
superior civilization.
Why?
Strange question.
Here is a similar question:
"Why isnt Shakespere's Hamlet about an African Princess who is a happy
and cheerful optomist?"
I dunno - I just read the words and discover that "Hamlet" is a story
about a Danish Prince who is a tragic and unhappy fellow. And I read
Genesis and find its a story (a few different stories actually -
inclucing two creation myths) about God creating the world and
populating it with life in six days by magic.
Mark.
I think you missed the point, there are several points in Genesis where
(with the aid of a massive suspension of disbelief) the text could be
viewed as a primitive attempting to describe science far beyond what
they are capable of understanding. The best example being the fact
that the creation of creatures follows the order in which biologists
now believe actually happened. Islam uses the equivalent passage as
proof that the Quran is true, because it perdicted the scienctific
discovery.
The taking of a rib from Adam might be the taking of a genetic sample,
the dust from which Adam was created could be a carbon-based nutrient
ooze used in a cloning chamber. Voices from heaven might be voice
amplification and projection, old women regaining fertility might be
advanced medicine, people walking with God and rising up into heaven
might be an abduction. Pillars of fire, walls falling down on command,
angels of death, etc. etc. etc.
Its an old idea, and not much of a stretch to say the creation story
might be a desription of terraforming that has been filitered by a
thousand generations.
My father once wrote a VERY dirty story based on the concept that a
drunk alien crashed his ship after an arguement with his wife. This
alien is stranded and orders his computer to begin the process of
creating life with the sole purpose of creating a primate advanced
enough to allow him to mate and to wake him from suspended animation at
that point. Thats the reason that humanity is obsessed with sex, we are
all decended from a pervert.
Ghostwriter
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 11:58:45 PM |
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ghostwriter wrote:
m.richardson@utas.edu.au wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Richo wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis.
The Genesis I know of doesnt have the earth being terraformed by a
superior civilization.
Why?
Strange question.
Here is a similar question:
"Why isnt Shakespere's Hamlet about an African Princess who is a happy
and cheerful optomist?"
I dunno - I just read the words and discover that "Hamlet" is a story
about a Danish Prince who is a tragic and unhappy fellow. And I read
Genesis and find its a story (a few different stories actually -
inclucing two creation myths) about God creating the world and
populating it with life in six days by magic.
Mark.
I think you missed the point, there are several points in Genesis where
(with the aid of a massive suspension of disbelief) the text could be
viewed as a primitive attempting to describe science far beyond what
they are capable of understanding.
Sure.
You can interpret "Winnie the Poo" to be about Martians colonising
Venus.
It doesnt matter what the actual words are and the culture of the
writers.
Or perhaps - just a possibility - the words mean something - the people
who wrote the words had a certain culture and thought in certain ways
and that by actually *reading* what they wrote we can have an insight
into who they actually were and what they actually thought.
Or we can just make ***** up.
That's my point.
Cheers, Mark.
.
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| User: "ghostwriter" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
04 Oct 2006 02:20:57 PM |
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wrote:
ghostwriter wrote:
wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Richo wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis.
The Genesis I know of doesnt have the earth being terraformed by a
superior civilization.
Why?
Strange question.
Here is a similar question:
"Why isnt Shakespere's Hamlet about an African Princess who is a happy
and cheerful optomist?"
I dunno - I just read the words and discover that "Hamlet" is a story
about a Danish Prince who is a tragic and unhappy fellow. And I read
Genesis and find its a story (a few different stories actually -
inclucing two creation myths) about God creating the world and
populating it with life in six days by magic.
Mark.
I think you missed the point, there are several points in Genesis where
(with the aid of a massive suspension of disbelief) the text could be
viewed as a primitive attempting to describe science far beyond what
they are capable of understanding.
Sure.
You can interpret "Winnie the Poo" to be about Martians colonising
Venus.
It doesnt matter what the actual words are and the culture of the
writers.
Or perhaps - just a possibility - the words mean something - the people
who wrote the words had a certain culture and thought in certain ways
and that by actually *reading* what they wrote we can have an insight
into who they actually were and what they actually thought.
Or we can just make ***** up.
That's my point.
Cheers, Mark.
I'm leaving the crossposting, against my better judgement since I dont
know what group you are seeing this in. I started in a speculative
fiction writing group so we might have very different perspectives.
I understood you point clearly, its just that between Christianity,
Islam and the Jews around 70% of the worlds population thinks that the
Bible is at least partially true. Thats a lot more than think Pooh bear
was an alien. If you try and make that belief fit into a logical
scientific worldview you get the rise of things like Scientolog, again
a lot larger group than think Hamlet was an african love story.
The fact that mainstream Islam quotes the order of creation as one
point of proof of the Quran's validity gives a legitimate reason to
look at holy books in a similar light, at least as a thought
experiment.
Its a matter of assumptions, if the Bible is true but magic doesnt
exist, you have to come up with explainations for how the hell that
stuff happened.
Ghostwriter
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| User: "Black-Phoenix-Night" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
04 Oct 2006 02:47:14 PM |
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ghostwriter wrote:
Its a matter of assumptions, if the Bible is true but magic doesnt
exist, you have to come up with explainations for how the hell that
stuff happened.
Ghostwrite
Exactly. A question was posted by Albertu gybeltus on why Genesis 1:2
was basiclly the way scientist describe the formation of the planet...
Planet Earth that is... how did these primative sheephearders knew?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
05 Oct 2006 12:00:44 AM |
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ghostwriter wrote:
m.richardson@utas.edu.au wrote:
ghostwriter wrote:
m.richardson@utas.edu.au wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Richo wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis.
The Genesis I know of doesnt have the earth being terraformed by a
superior civilization.
Why?
Strange question.
Here is a similar question:
"Why isnt Shakespere's Hamlet about an African Princess who is a happy
and cheerful optomist?"
I dunno - I just read the words and discover that "Hamlet" is a story
about a Danish Prince who is a tragic and unhappy fellow. And I read
Genesis and find its a story (a few different stories actually -
inclucing two creation myths) about God creating the world and
populating it with life in six days by magic.
Mark.
I think you missed the point, there are several points in Genesis where
(with the aid of a massive suspension of disbelief) the text could be
viewed as a primitive attempting to describe science far beyond what
they are capable of understanding.
Sure.
You can interpret "Winnie the Poo" to be about Martians colonising
Venus.
It doesnt matter what the actual words are and the culture of the
writers.
Or perhaps - just a possibility - the words mean something - the people
who wrote the words had a certain culture and thought in certain ways
and that by actually *reading* what they wrote we can have an insight
into who they actually were and what they actually thought.
Or we can just make ***** up.
That's my point.
Cheers, Mark.
I'm leaving the crossposting, against my better judgement since I dont
know what group you are seeing this in.
alt atheism.
I started in a speculative
fiction writing group so we might have very different perspectives.
OK - I understand.
I think the original poster is a Jehovas Witness - so you can
understand his perspective on these things is "Its true - so how do we
reconstruct reality so that it matches the story?"
I understood you point clearly, its just that between Christianity,
Islam and the Jews around 70% of the worlds population thinks that the
Bible is at least partially true. Thats a lot more than think Pooh bear
was an alien.
Sure - and the truth of something is not determined by the number of
people who give assent to it - if you believe in reality.
If you try and make that belief fit into a logical
scientific worldview you get the rise of things like Scientolog, again
a lot larger group than think Hamlet was an african love story.
The fact that mainstream Islam quotes the order of creation as one
point of proof of the Quran's validity gives a legitimate reason to
look at holy books in a similar light, at least as a thought
experiment.
Its a matter of assumptions, if the Bible is true but magic doesnt
exist, you have to come up with explainations for how the hell that
stuff happened.
There is bound to be something true in the bible - it would be
difficult to write something and have it contain no truth - even if
that was your motivation.
Hamlet says true things about humanity - if it didnt it would not be a
great play.
The "truth" in genesis - if any - will be truths of an alegorical sort
- but this guy is not taking it literally - nor is he finding
alegorical truths - he is just making it say something completely
different.
Mark.
Ghostwriter
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| User: "Cymek-Ajax" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 09:33:38 PM |
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ghostwriter wrote:
m.richardson@utas.edu.au wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Richo wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis.
The Genesis I know of doesnt have the earth being terraformed by a
superior civilization.
Why?
Strange question.
Here is a similar question:
"Why isnt Shakespere's Hamlet about an African Princess who is a happy
and cheerful optomist?"
I dunno - I just read the words and discover that "Hamlet" is a story
about a Danish Prince who is a tragic and unhappy fellow. And I read
Genesis and find its a story (a few different stories actually -
inclucing two creation myths) about God creating the world and
populating it with life in six days by magic.
Mark.
I think you missed the point, there are several points in Genesis where
(with the aid of a massive suspension of disbelief) the text could be
viewed as a primitive attempting to describe science far beyond what
they are capable of understanding. The best example being the fact
that the creation of creatures follows the order in which biologists
now believe actually happened. Islam uses the equivalent passage as
proof that the Quran is true, because it perdicted the scienctific
discovery.
The taking of a rib from Adam might be the taking of a genetic sample,
the dust from which Adam was created could be a carbon-based nutrient
ooze used in a cloning chamber. Voices from heaven might be voice
amplification and projection, old women regaining fertility might be
advanced medicine, people walking with God and rising up into heaven
might be an abduction. Pillars of fire, walls falling down on command,
angels of death, etc. etc. etc.
Its an old idea, and not much of a stretch to say the creation story
might be a desription of terraforming that has been filitered by a
thousand generations.
My father once wrote a VERY dirty story based on the concept that a
drunk alien crashed his ship after an arguement with his wife. This
alien is stranded and orders his computer to begin the process of
creating life with the sole purpose of creating a primate advanced
enough to allow him to mate and to wake him from suspended animation at
that point. Thats the reason that humanity is obsessed with sex, we are
all decended from a pervert.
Ghostwriter
Very good and on topic.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
02 Oct 2006 10:32:03 PM |
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Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis "day," though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth's condition was just before
that first "day" began: "Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God's
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters."-Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
I'm not a scientist and all, but I'd like to know how something that's
formless can have a watery deep?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
02 Oct 2006 11:49:00 PM |
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Neil Kelsey wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis "day," though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth's condition was just before
that first "day" began: "Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God's
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters."-Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
I'm not a scientist and all, but I'd like to know how something that's
formless can have a watery deep?
Some views from Creation Scientists on Genesis 1 and 2
What's in a name?
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/388
What about the 'gap' and ruin-reconstruction theories.
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3662
,
Expose of the Genesis Question
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/1654
Gladys Swager
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
02 Oct 2006 11:53:48 PM |
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wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
Cymek-Ajax wrote:
Hi Here is the thread Matt has been waiting for. Terraforming the Earth
by a superior civilization as seen in Genesis. The first part of
Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of
years before the first Genesis "day," though it does not say for how
long. However, it does describe what earth's condition was just before
that first "day" began: "Now the earth proved to be formless and waste
and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God's
active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the
waters."-Genesis 1:2.
Now without going into the mystical mumbo jumbo, what can a scientists
extract from these words in Gen 1:2?
I'm not a scientist and all, but I'd like to know how something that's
formless can have a watery deep?
Some views from Creation Scientists on Genesis 1 and 2
What's in a name?
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/388
What about the 'gap' and ruin-reconstruction theories.
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3662
,
Expose of the Genesis Question
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/1654
Gladys Swager
Tell me what you think instead of making me wade through endless web
pages to figure out your point.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 01:21:24 AM |
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Neil Kelsey wrote:
swager@ozemail.com.au wrote:
<snip>
Some views from Creation Scientists on Genesis 1 and 2
What's in a name?
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/388
What about the 'gap' and ruin-reconstruction theories.
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3662
,
Expose of the Genesis Question
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/1654
Gladys Swager
Tell me what you think instead of making me wade through endless web
pages to figure out your point.
If you can't spend the time 'wading through...web pages'
others might be interested enough to do so.
As you posted wihtin 4 minutes of my posting
the fact is more likely to have been that you didn't want to spend the
time.
What do I believe? Believe =3D a stronger word that 'think'.
I believe the Universe and living organisms in it
are too complex to have happened by random chance.
I do not believe that 'Mother Nature', a personification given in
school texts,
has within 'her' (=EDt') the ability to change spontaneously by herself
(itself)
in changed environmental circumstances.
I believe
1=2E that God Almighty - as recorded in the Bible -
created by the power of His word.
2=2E that scientists (Creationists) with as high qualifications
from accredited Tertiary institutions have just as much right
to be heard as those scientists who support Evolution + millions of
years.
3=2E that all persons able to read and understand
have a right to make up their own minds instead of being
indoctrinated
in the school system and the media.
If you are willing to take the time to read the above websites
when you have more time to do so than evidently you have now
you will read information that you can compare with
other information that you have at present
and it may guide you to change your ideas.=20
Gladys Swager.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 04:02:20 AM |
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wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
wrote:
<snip>
Some views from Creation Scientists on Genesis 1 and 2
What's in a name?
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/388
What about the 'gap' and ruin-reconstruction theories.
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3662
,
Expose of the Genesis Question
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/1654
Gladys Swager
Tell me what you think instead of making me wade through endless web
pages to figure out your point.
If you can't spend the time 'wading through...web pages'
others might be interested enough to do so.
As you posted wihtin 4 minutes of my posting
the fact is more likely to have been that you didn't want to spend the
time.
What do I believe? Believe = a stronger word that 'think'.
I believe the Universe and living organisms in it
are too complex to have happened by random chance.
Then you are an idiot, traveling down a path that has already proven to
be a dead end. It is not the fault of science that you cannot concieve
of anything more complicated than "creation" to explain the worlds
wonderful complexity. You are a coward, who does not *care* where that
complexity really came from, and too lazy to look.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html
http://www.ebi.ac.uk/microarray/biology_intro.html
http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/biobk/BioBookintro.html
The very fact that the evolution "controversy" still exists is proof
that ignorance can plague even a rich country.
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man, Sep 06
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 03:37:24 PM |
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wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
wrote:
<snip>
Some views from Creation Scientists on Genesis 1 and 2
What's in a name?
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/388
What about the 'gap' and ruin-reconstruction theories.
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3662
,
Expose of the Genesis Question
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/1654
Gladys Swager
Tell me what you think instead of making me wade through endless web
pages to figure out your point.
If you can't spend the time 'wading through...web pages'
others might be interested enough to do so.
As you posted wihtin 4 minutes of my posting
the fact is more likely to have been that you didn't want to spend the
time.
See below for response to your snotty remarks.
What do I believe? Believe =3D a stronger word that 'think'.
I believe the Universe and living organisms in it
are too complex to have happened by random chance.
Clearly you do not understand natural selection if you think it is just
random chance.
I do not believe that 'Mother Nature', a personification given in
school texts,
has within 'her' (=EDt') the ability to change spontaneously by herself
(itself)
in changed environmental circumstances.
I don't know what texts you were inflicted with. The Mother Nature
analogy doesn't work very well when trying to understand the natural
world. Did you attend one of them there home schools?
I believe
1. that God Almighty - as recorded in the Bible -
created by the power of His word.
That's not a complete sentence. You believe that god created by his
word did what?
2. that scientists (Creationists) with as high qualifications
from accredited Tertiary institutions have just as much right
to be heard as those scientists who support Evolution + millions of
years.
Guess what? Creationists ARE heard. You just don't like it that they
are summarilly dismissed as crackpots. Which they are. You are confusin
"being heard" with "being correct." The evidence for Creationism
presented by their "scientists" is laughable. And I have attended
presentations by them, in case you want to get all snotty again.
3. that all persons able to read and understand
have a right to make up their own minds instead of being
indoctrinated
in the school system and the media.
They do have the right to make up their own minds if you live in a
secular society like the US. It's religious parents who home school
their children and don't expose them to the whole range of ideas that
are indoctrinating their children, not the public school system. No one
has got a detention for being a Creationist there. Imagine what a homew
schooling Creationist parent would do if their six year old told them
they were atheist. That's indoctrination. Don't laugh, I was six when I
figured out I was an atheist.
If you are willing to take the time to read the above websites
when you have more time to do so than evidently you have now
you will read information that you can compare with
other information that you have at present
and it may guide you to change your ideas.
You may have noticed I was asking a specific question, "How can there
be water on something that has no form?" You gave me some links, which
I looked at, expecting to find an answer to my specific question, "How
can there be water on something that has no form?" Instead I found web
pages with an explosion of different topics and text, none of which
were obvious answers to my specific question, "How can there be water
on something that has no form?" You might have given better
instructions on where to find the answer to my question, which was "How
can there be water on something that has no form?" Instead you gave
this snotty reply and left me no desire whatsoever to go back and read
your precious webpage. Nice PR work for your stunted ideals.
By the way, Creationism is for retards*.
* by retards, I mean those people born with regular brains who choose
to use them to become less intelligent.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 03:36:36 AM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet (swager@ozemail.com.au) made
the light shine upon us with this:
What do I believe? Believe = a stronger word that 'think'.
Only to a believer, who employs others to think for him.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man
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| User: "Cymek-Ajax" |
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| Title: Re: Genesis: terraforming our planet for life |
03 Oct 2006 09:30:18 AM |
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off topic
swager@ozemail.com.au wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
swager@ozemail.com.au wrote:
<snip>
Some views from Creation Scientists on Genesis 1 and 2
What's in a name?
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/388
What about the 'gap' and ruin-reconstruction theories.
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3662
,
Expose of the Genesis Question
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/1654
Gladys Swager
Tell me what you think instead of making me wade through endless web
pages to figure out your point.
If you can't spend the time 'wading through...web pages'
others might be interested enough to do so.
As you posted wihtin 4 minutes of my posting
the fact is more likely to have been that you didn't want to spend the
time.
What do I believe? Believe = a stronger word that 'think'.
I believe the Universe and living organisms in it
are too complex to have happened by random chance.
I do not believe that 'Mother Nature', a personification given in
school texts,
has within 'her' (ít') the ability to change spontaneously by herself
(itself)
in changed environmental circumstances.
I believe
1. that God Almighty - as recorded in the Bible -
created by the power of His word.
2. that scientists (Creationists) with as high qualifications
from accredited Tertiary institutions have just as much right
to be heard as those scientists who support Evolution + millions of
years.
3. that all persons able to read and understand
have a right to make up their own minds instead of being
indoctrinated
in the school system and the media.
If you are willing to take the time to read the above websites
when you have more time to do so than evidently you have now
you will read information that you can compare with
other information that you have at present
and it may guide you to change your ideas.
Gladys Swager.
.
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