Religions > Atheism > Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools.
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"The List Man" |
| Date: |
15 May 2006 03:07:12 PM |
| Object: |
Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools.
Southport, North Carolina's The State Port Pilot is reporting this
week that the Brunswick County Board of Education has backed down on
their planned policy to allow faith-based organizations into the
county's public high schools. Chairman Scott Milligan told the local
newspaper that, "I know many of you were expecting this to be approved
tonight, but after legal consideration and feedback and various points
of view, we still have some issues with it." The debate to change the
policies stemmed from an event that took place this past March where
the evangelistic group known as The Gideons International requested
permission to distribute bibles to students. Most of the bibles that
travelers find in their hotel rooms originate from this same group
of evangelists. As a result, they drafted a policy to grant "any"
religious group access to the high schools. The newspaper added that,
"Since approval of the first draft, board members have been bombarded
with requests to hand out materials from both Christian and non-Christian
faiths, including Buddhists, Wiccans and Pagans. The American Civil
Liberties Union and the Freedom From Religion Foundation have
threatened legal action." With fear of having to allow Wiccan
materials to be distributed to the schools and possible legal
action from the ACLU, they have decided to place it on hold. Board
member Jimmy Hobbs told the newspaper that, "When we started this
I said, ‘No one wants a lawsuit.’ We need much wisdom as we move
forward. There has been a lot of media hype on the issue. All I
wanted was some healthy debate. I’m in no way going to drop this
matter. I intend to push forward, but I will not rush into it."
Article: http://www.stateportpilot.com/stories/school-board0510.htm
This seems to be a rather sly and very slick tactic on the part of
Gideons International. They are trying to win the right to distribute
bibles in public high schools. They decided to target rural conservative
small towns like the small middle to upper class port town in North Carolina,
called Southport. It was only recently when the school board in the small
town of Dover, PA was voted out of that city only due to the opposition by
democratic voters. Unfortunately for them, the ACLU is never too far behind
them as local pagans are always eager to write to their local ACLU chapters
requesting their involvement. It was not until after the Brunswick County Board
of Education received pressure from the ACLU and other religious organizations
that they finally backed down on the clandestine policy.
Who is Gideons International?
They are an evangelical Christian organization that is funded by
numerous churches. Nearly 90% of the bibles that travelers find in
their hotel rooms come from this organization. The next time you travel
to a hotel, look at the cover of the bible. You are very likely to see
on the front cover their logo with the message, "Placed By The Gideons."
These bibles are given to the hotels for free as a result of the donations
that they receive from numerous churches. The bibles are also distributed
to prisons, hospitals, as well as military bases in the U.S. Their website
claims that they have delivered up to 63,000,000 scriptures worldwide in
over 80 languages in more than 180 countries around the world. They are
a massive organization.
Website: http://www.gideons.org/
They are very much a very large organization, and they have very much tried to
use their emense power to manipulate a small school board in a very rural part
of the United States known as Southport, North Carolina.
This is just another shrewd example of how religious organizations are
trying to sneak their way into the public school system. There is
something in common with most of these cases. Most of them take place
with well orchestrated plans by these multi-million dollar organizations
to target the schools in rural towns rather than in big cities where such
an effort would definitely spark more media attention. The ACLU is always
right on top of things like this and if you notice any activity in your
area, as a pagan, you are encouraged to write to the ACLU and other
organizations.
--
The List Man
http://www.esotericwonders.com
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 08:41:24 PM |
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On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:36:11 -0600, "Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org>
wrote:
- Refer: <126mr89rl583811@corp.supernews.com>
Nope, not a newbie. Just prefer to not have to scroll down to the bottom of
a lot of useless dribble to get to the meat of the reply.
If you know about it, but choose not to do it, then you are just plain
rude, selfish and inconsiderate.
<a big plonkeroony>
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Trainee Inquisitor of the month (2nd runner up: April)
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
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| User: "Dean" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 06:37:47 PM |
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Tigrah wrote:
Nope, not a newbie. Just prefer to not have to scroll down to the bottom of
a lot of useless dribble to get to the meat of the reply.
Kinda like how everybody else hates having to scroll down to the bottom
of a lot of useless dribble to see what you're replying to? ;-)
All can be fixed by properly trimming posts when replying. (Not a
specific criticism of you, but of Usenet in general).
Dean
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| User: "Tigrah" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 07:53:29 PM |
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Yeah, pretty much. I don't snip if the previous quote is small enough that I
don't need to cut out a bunch of useless garbage, Dean. :)
Lurve ya.
--
Tigrah
=^.^=
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147909067.082445.256270@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Tigrah wrote:
Nope, not a newbie. Just prefer to not have to scroll down to the bottom
of
a lot of useless dribble to get to the meat of the reply.
Kinda like how everybody else hates having to scroll down to the bottom
of a lot of useless dribble to see what you're replying to? ;-)
All can be fixed by properly trimming posts when replying. (Not a
specific criticism of you, but of Usenet in general).
Dean
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| User: "Seamus" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 02:02:45 PM |
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Which is why eople need to learn about snipping.
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| User: "Melanie Boxall" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 03:30:56 PM |
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Especially snipping too much.
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
"Seamus" <fomorianwolf@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1147892565.239929.168740@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Which is why eople need to learn about snipping.
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| User: "Dean" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 06:40:13 PM |
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Seamus wrote:
Which is why eople need to learn about snipping.
Umm, people (or is that eople?) that reply without quoting context
shouldn't be complaining about those that do not snip posts.
Dean
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 10:47:15 AM |
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Tigrah wrote:
Yes, as was I. You were also talking about another time, you were saying
about how you were a child, and for me, childhood was before prayer in
school was outlawed in the US.
Given that prayer in U.S. schools has never been outlawed, one wonders
what period you're talking about.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Tigrah" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 11:26:32 AM |
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Forgive my wording, I meant disallowed. Prayer in the schools I went to was
common as a child. When I went to public schools, they stopped allowing it.
I was in High School before that woman petitioned to have it removed for her
fear of children thinking for themselves.
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"L. Raymond" <badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:1zsc8xheo0x1.1sfbkr449v56r.dlg@40tude.net...
Tigrah wrote:
Yes, as was I. You were also talking about another time, you were saying
about how you were a child, and for me, childhood was before prayer in
school was outlawed in the US.
Given that prayer in U.S. schools has never been outlawed, one wonders
what period you're talking about.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 11:50:47 AM |
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On Wed, 17 May 2006 10:26:32 -0600, "Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org>
wrote:
Forgive my wording, I meant disallowed. Prayer in the schools I went to was
common as a child. When I went to public schools, they stopped allowing it.
I was in High School before that woman petitioned to have it removed for her
fear of children thinking for themselves.
What "woman who petitioned to have it removed for her fear of children
thinking for themselves", button-pushing trolling liar?
Here's a clue: organised, official prayer was illegal because it was
unconstitutional; public schools used to get away with enforcing one
religion on everybody.
Private, non-coerced, non-organised, non-supported prayer has always
been legal.
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| User: "Tigrah" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 12:29:53 PM |
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Even silent prayer has been discouraged, or had you not heard that?
--
Tigrah
=^.^=
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ctkm62166as3dj9d0gspr7gb9vno5vtdbq@4ax.com...
On Wed, 17 May 2006 10:26:32 -0600, "Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org>
wrote:
Forgive my wording, I meant disallowed. Prayer in the schools I went to
was
common as a child. When I went to public schools, they stopped allowing
it.
I was in High School before that woman petitioned to have it removed for
her
fear of children thinking for themselves.
What "woman who petitioned to have it removed for her fear of children
thinking for themselves", button-pushing trolling liar?
Here's a clue: organised, official prayer was illegal because it was
unconstitutional; public schools used to get away with enforcing one
religion on everybody.
Private, non-coerced, non-organised, non-supported prayer has always
been legal.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 01:51:36 PM |
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"Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org> wrote in message
news:126mnc012ktpm0a@corp.supernews.com...
Even silent prayer has been discouraged, or had you not heard that?
Nope, never heard that. How is someone to supposed to tell if you're
praying? Unless, of course, you're down on your knees, etc.
Have a cite for this?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 05:56:01 PM |
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On Wed, 17 May 2006 14:51:36 -0400, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>
wrote:
"Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org> wrote in message
news:126mnc012ktpm0a@corp.supernews.com...
Even silent prayer has been discouraged, or had you not heard that?
Nope, never heard that. How is someone to supposed to tell if you're
praying? Unless, of course, you're down on your knees, etc.
Have a cite for this?
Perhaps ORGANIZED silent prayer is not promoted.
Ben
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 07:30:19 AM |
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Tigrah wrote:
Yes, as was I. You were also talking about another time, you were saying
about how you were a child, and for me, childhood was before prayer in
school was outlawed in the US.
Given that prayer in U.S. schools has never been outlawed, one wonders
what period you're talking about.
Forgive my wording, I meant disallowed. Prayer in the schools I went to was
common as a child. When I went to public schools, they stopped allowing it.
I was in High School before that woman petitioned to have it removed for her
fear of children thinking for themselves.
Prayer has never been disallowed in U. S. schools. It's never been
banned, forbidden, censored, prohibited or otherwise prevented. It is,
however, illegal to force children to sit through a prayer or to have a
school authority of any type present a present a prayer during school
hours.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Tigrah" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 09:44:22 AM |
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Prayer has never been disallowed in U. S. schools. It's never been
banned, forbidden, censored, prohibited or otherwise prevented. It is,
however, illegal to force children to sit through a prayer or to have a
school authority of any type present a present a prayer during school
hours.
--
L. Raymond
You obviously never went to any of the schools I went to. And to reply to
the ***** posts that followed this one, I am educated, thank you very
much. I have been to both secular and religeous schools and I know what its
like to be forced to do what the 'church' told my mother to believe. Thank
you for being so trite. Perhaps you can pull your foot out of your mouth
now. I've also been told I was going to hell by a pastor while pregnant
because I'm an evil wicked pagan. I have been molested, raped, and a number
of other horrors in my 29 years that I'm sure would have snapped your pea
brain. Just because I speak my mind doesn't mean I'm a moron. Here, let me
help you with that foot.
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"L. Raymond" <badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:st5vq99z26o0.q3n2xbeb6awr.dlg@40tude.net...
Tigrah wrote:
Yes, as was I. You were also talking about another time, you were
saying
about how you were a child, and for me, childhood was before prayer in
school was outlawed in the US.
Given that prayer in U.S. schools has never been outlawed, one wonders
what period you're talking about.
Forgive my wording, I meant disallowed. Prayer in the schools I went to
was
common as a child. When I went to public schools, they stopped allowing
it.
I was in High School before that woman petitioned to have it removed for
her
fear of children thinking for themselves.
.
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 10:28:29 AM |
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Tigrah wrote:
Prayer has never been disallowed in U. S. schools. It's never been
banned, forbidden, censored, prohibited or otherwise prevented. It is,
however, illegal to force children to sit through a prayer or to have a
school authority of any type present a present a prayer during school
hours.
You obviously never went to any of the schools I went to. And to reply to
the ***** posts that followed this one, I am educated, thank you very
much.
Based on your tone I doubt it, but I concede it's possible you've been
through the public school system, although you haven't learned anything
about the matter on which you were commenting, namely U.S. law and how
it relates to prayer in school.
I have been to both secular and religeous schools and I know what its
like to be forced to do what the 'church' told my mother to believe. Thank
you for being so trite.
Trite? You made a wholly incorrect claim about U.S. law, repeating
precisely what the religious right says, and I commented on that. In
what way is that trite?
Perhaps you can pull your foot out of your mouth now.
I've seen nothing yet to make me think I'm in error about your ability
to understand the law and how it applies to schools.
I've also been told I was going to hell by a pastor while pregnant
because I'm an evil wicked pagan. I have been molested, raped, and a number
of other horrors in my 29 years that I'm sure would have snapped your pea
brain.
You have delusions of superiority based on hard times. That accounts
for your insistence that you're correct without actually being so, but
it does not earn you the right to be acknowledged as correct when you
are in error. I'll chalk up your pathetic and childish comment about my
own capabilities to this horrible stress you're under and ignore it.
Just because I speak my mind doesn't mean I'm a moron.
When your mind is filled with incorrect notions and you try to pass
them off as true, and you respond like this to being set straight, then
yes, you do qualify as a moron with regards to this topic.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Nevermore" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural highschools. |
18 May 2006 12:40:51 PM |
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In <1j5rtv1ljodg3.1p9y03ekhdhph.dlg@40tude.net> L. Raymond wrote:
From: "L. Raymond" <badaddress@mylinuxisp.com>
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.religion.wicca,alt.witchcraft,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into
rural high schools. Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 10:28:29 -0500 Organization:
http://extra.newsguy.com
Tigrah wrote:
Prayer has never been disallowed in U. S. schools. It's never been
banned, forbidden, censored, prohibited or otherwise prevented. It
is, however, illegal to force children to sit through a prayer or to
have a school authority of any type present a present a prayer
during school hours.
You obviously never went to any of the schools I went to. And to
reply to the ***** posts that followed this one, I am educated,
thank you very much.
Based on your tone I doubt it, but I concede it's possible you've
been through the public school system, although you haven't learned
anything about the matter on which you were commenting, namely U.S.
law and how it relates to prayer in school.
I have been to both secular and religeous schools and I know what its
like to be forced to do what the 'church' told my mother to believe.
Thank you for being so trite.
Trite? You made a wholly incorrect claim about U.S. law, repeating
precisely what the religious right says, and I commented on that. In
what way is that trite?
What do you mean by "U.S. Law"??? Federal law? Federal regulation? or
the state law which generally governs American public schools? You
can't launch off into prayers in most American public schools without
running afoul of either laws or policies based on the separation of
church and state.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
19 May 2006 08:43:31 PM |
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"Nevermore" <burned@thestake.net> wrote in message
news:20060518134051189-0400@news1.news.adelphia.net...
In <1j5rtv1ljodg3.1p9y03ekhdhph.dlg@40tude.net> L. Raymond wrote:
From: "L. Raymond" <badaddress@mylinuxisp.com>
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.religion.wicca,alt.witchcraft,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into
rural high schools. Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 10:28:29 -0500 Organization:
http://extra.newsguy.com
Tigrah wrote:
Prayer has never been disallowed in U. S. schools. It's never been
banned, forbidden, censored, prohibited or otherwise prevented. It
is, however, illegal to force children to sit through a prayer or to
have a school authority of any type present a present a prayer
during school hours.
You obviously never went to any of the schools I went to. And to
reply to the ***** posts that followed this one, I am educated,
thank you very much.
Based on your tone I doubt it, but I concede it's possible you've
been through the public school system, although you haven't learned
anything about the matter on which you were commenting, namely U.S.
law and how it relates to prayer in school.
I have been to both secular and religeous schools and I know what its
like to be forced to do what the 'church' told my mother to believe.
Thank you for being so trite.
Trite? You made a wholly incorrect claim about U.S. law, repeating
precisely what the religious right says, and I commented on that. In
what way is that trite?
What do you mean by "U.S. Law"??? Federal law? Federal regulation? or
the state law which generally governs American public schools? You
can't launch off into prayers in most American public schools without
running afoul of either laws or policies based on the separation of
church and state.
Well, actually; you can.
Anyone can pray silently at any time.
Students can pray aloud at any time they are allowed other forms of personal
speech. (they can't stand up in the middle of a class and start praying: but
then, they can't stand up in the middle of class and recite Jabberwocky,
either) ((OK. Maybe a lit class discussing Lewis Carroll.))
Teachers and administrators may not be able to pray aloud in situations
where it could be interpreted as requiring students to participate in a
religious observance.
Any local school policies regulating religion are invalid
.
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 03:54:36 PM |
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Nevermore wrote:
Trite? You made a wholly incorrect claim about U.S. law, repeating
precisely what the religious right says, and I commented on that. In
what way is that trite?
What do you mean by "U.S. Law"??? Federal law? Federal regulation? or
the state law which generally governs American public schools? You
can't launch off into prayers in most American public schools without
running afoul of either laws or policies based on the separation of
church and state.
I don't understand why you're three question marks worth of confused
since you evidently caught my meaning. I'm using "U.S." to refer to all
laws of the U.S., at whatever level - city, county, state and federal.
School policies can't contravene the law, so they don't matter when
discussing the legality of prayer.
Far too many American forget Usenet is international, and a generic
reference to "the law" is an invitation to have others point out the
laws of their nations do actually ban or require prayer. We're talking
only about the U.S., hence the sloppy designation of "U.S. law".
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 08:21:19 AM |
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On Thu, 18 May 2006 07:30:19 -0500, "L. Raymond"
<badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Tigrah wrote:
Yes, as was I. You were also talking about another time, you were saying
about how you were a child, and for me, childhood was before prayer in
school was outlawed in the US.
Given that prayer in U.S. schools has never been outlawed, one wonders
what period you're talking about.
Forgive my wording, I meant disallowed. Prayer in the schools I went to was
common as a child. When I went to public schools, they stopped allowing it.
I was in High School before that woman petitioned to have it removed for her
fear of children thinking for themselves.
Prayer has never been disallowed in U. S. schools. It's never been
banned, forbidden, censored, prohibited or otherwise prevented. It is,
however, illegal to force children to sit through a prayer or to have a
school authority of any type present a present a prayer during school
hours.
Would anybody but a troll include falsehoods like "for fear of her
children thinking for themselves" about that when it's about not
having the majority religion enforced?
.
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 09:02:15 AM |
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Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Thu, 18 May 2006 07:30:19 -0500, "L. Raymond"
<badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Tigrah wrote:
Forgive my wording, I meant disallowed. Prayer in the schools I went to was
common as a child. When I went to public schools, they stopped allowing it.
I was in High School before that woman petitioned to have it removed for her
fear of children thinking for themselves.
Prayer has never been disallowed in U. S. schools. It's never been
banned, forbidden, censored, prohibited or otherwise prevented. It is,
however, illegal to force children to sit through a prayer or to have a
school authority of any type present a present a prayer during school
hours.
Would anybody but a troll include falsehoods like "for fear of her
children thinking for themselves" about that when it's about not
having the majority religion enforced?
Yes, someone who is poorly educated and who has swallowed the lies
told by the right wingers. I've long since ceased to be shocked people
can honestly believe that not allowing people to forcibly indoctrinate
children equates to somehow being close minded.
Of course, these people, not recognizing the difference between
teaching objective secular fact in a public school vs. teaching
subjective religion prejudices in a public school vs. teaching those
same prejudices in a church, will always be unhappy that we don't just
declare schools to be churches and let them have their wicked way with
the young.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "LisaKay" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 03:54:14 PM |
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Tigrah wrote:
Thats true. However, the Gideons don't make people take their little books.
They have them there should the person choose to read it. They don't force
it into their hands. I have yet to walk by the Gideonites and have them make
me take one of their books, either as a child or as an adult. I know that
pagans don't go around advertising our religeon and trying to force feed it
to people, or even offer little books of spiritual enlightenment, but what's
wrong with someone caring?
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:e2em625s5eo3v8t038lahe8a8agalct0t8@4ax.com...
On Wed, 17 May 2006 08:43:59 -0600, "Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org>
wrote:
See, that's not right. The situation you're speaking of is where the
children don't have the choice to take them or not to, according to the
teacher's teaching lessons. That's where I'd fight the system and have to
get all uppity about it. But that's not the Gideons doing it. Its the
teacher. Your teacher should have been smacked. But heh... that's neither
here nor there anymore, is it?
It's both. The Gideons should not do it. Nor should the teacher. The
school should be religion-neutral. It's up to the parents to teach
what religion (if any).
The fact that it's an adult in an observed position of authority
handing out the book, is the real problem. For this reason, students
of any religious persuasion are permitted to form clubs and ask willing
teachers to sponsor the club, as long as it is student led and all
groups wishing to form clubs are permitted. Also, the clubs aren't
supposed to meet during the school day.
.
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| User: "Melanie Boxall" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 03:26:04 PM |
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Yes, I remember being given a tiny red Gideon's Bible in my English Primary
School. At the time I was thrilled to get a freebie. I gave it to a
Christian friend as a birthday present a couple of weeks later. Saved me
money, she loved it, nothing was wasted. Win-win-win.
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:kr7m62p4m9tcf2cdm5ippcdd7qf3elqqgu@4ax.com...
On Wed, 17 May 2006 08:43:14 -0400, "Melanie Boxall"
<melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Absolutely...Free publicity. Forbidden fruits and all that.... probably
also
means that more Christians themselves read it than otherwise would. I
chuckle over that every time I think about it.
When I was about 8 or 9, in England, my schoolteacher gave them to the
class. I didn't even bother to read it and threw it in the rubbish
bin. She was upset, retrieved it and gave me a lecture that I might
"learn something".
I'd already crossed swords with her when she had realised I hadn't
been brainwashed to believe by my parents, after which I treated her
as an idiot who expected people to believe fairy stories - I can still
remember my puzzled "why did it need a 'who'?" when she asked who
created everything.
It's sad when a teacher is that stupid, and makes the kids aware of
that.
There is no excuse for "giving them away" to people who aren't that
religion.
.
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| User: "Melanie Boxall" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 07:41:42 AM |
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Most of them haven't read it and don't even know what they are banning,
which makes it worse somehow. A very special type of ignorance.
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
"Yeata" <YeataMoon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1147836059.330776.19010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Did you ever notice that instead of just finding a way to make
everything work, people just become all pissy and get things outlawed?
It's like the people that think that Harry Potter books are books to
teach their children to be devil worshippers - they get the book banned
instead of just ignoring it...
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 01:13:23 AM |
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On 16 May 2006 20:20:59 -0700, "Yeata" <YeataMoon@yahoo.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1147836059.330776.19010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>
Did you ever notice that instead of just finding a way to make
everything work, people just become all pissy and get things outlawed?
It's like the people that think that Harry Potter books are books to
teach their children to be devil worshippers - they get the book banned
instead of just ignoring it...
It's the reliogious mind-virus controlling their speech and actions,
bending the meat robot to it's neferious will.
It has to force them to behave in that way, lest it renders itself
extinct.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Trainee Inquisitor of the month (2nd runner up: April)
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
.
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| User: "Melanie Boxall" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 07:40:33 AM |
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It's almost gone too far hasn't it? When you need Spiritual company,
provided the person concerned has the right character, it really shouldn't
matter what flavour of religion they are. The trouble is, there ARE hospital
chaplains etc who don't seem to be doing the job properly (in a nutshell
they have a bias), and cause problems for all the others. I'll never forget
the love and support I got from a Methodist Deacon when my Mother died, with
absolutely no strings attached. There are some good ones out there.
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
"Yowie" <yowie9644.DIESPAMDIE@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4cvg79F17j3nmU1@individual.net...
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:k46j629kbmarm5ju3skgnb12btevndalgn@4ax.com...
On Tue, 16 May 2006 12:13:27 +1000, "Yowie"
<yowie9644.DIESPAMDIE@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
- Refer: <4csqqaF17bqc1U1@individual.net>
<joerevskelton@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:pjaag.17150$qd2.7980@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"The List Man" <listhunter@esotericwonders.com> wrote in message
news:4468DF70.D68F3FA@esotericwonders.com...
Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high
schools.
Gideons have regularly distributed Bibles in public schools since their
founding.
It is only within the past 25-30 years that there have been any
regulations
in any school system which would prevent them from doing so.
As the article you posted suggests, the only reason that some school
boards
have adopted regulations that would prevent them from doing so is that
Federal laws have gradually been developed to the point that it is now
pretty well impossible for school boards to allow them to do so without
also
allowing any group claiming a religious orientation to do the same.
When I graduated from highcschool (In Australia, 20 years ago), Gideons
via
the local Anglican church offered a free Bible to anyone who wanted one.
Some people took one, some didn't. They didn't force those who took one
to
read it, didn't force those who read any of it to convert, and didn't
berate
those who chose not to take one. I thought it made a nice
I still can't see the problem with giving away a free book (with no
further
obligation, either) to anyone who wants one.
Yowie
It seems that it is only Australians who cannot see a problem with
getting something for free, with no strings attached.
I can't for the life of me see what the fuss is about.
No... sadly today on the radio I heard that there will in longer be a
Gideon's Bible in hotels or public hospitals because it is not politically
correct to supply one particular religious text without supplying them
all. I would have throught that if non-Christian religious groups wished
to supply their own religious texts, then they were free to do so. Its not
like anyone forces a person in hospital or a hotel to pick and read the
thing.
Actually, whils tI was in hospital over easter (having jsut given birth to
my son) I would have really liked a "spiritual support" person to just sit
down and have a chat with me (I wasn' tparticularly fussy over which
tradition). What I really wanted was my mother, but she wasn't available
(being in a different country). However, unless I could specify the person
i wished to talk to, the hospital woldn't call someone in. I thought that
was rather sad, and an oppurtunity to do a great service for he community
going lacking. There are lots of people in hospital who just want a
friendly person to sit down and listen, to let them cry on their shoulder,
to provide support, but for fear of offending The Politically Correct,
such people aren't allowed in hospitals anymore unless they are a guest of
a specific patient.
I mean, I'm perfectly capable of telling someone introduding themsleves as
"A member of XYZ religious group" that I don't want to chat with them
about religion. But just as a 'friendly face' to those feeling lonely
overwhelmed and afraid...
Anyway, rant over.
Yowie
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 01:11:35 AM |
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|
On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:31:09 +1000, "Yowie"
<yowie9644.DIESPAMDIE@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
- Refer: <4cvg79F17j3nmU1@individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:k46j629kbmarm5ju3skgnb12btevndalgn@4ax.com...
On Tue, 16 May 2006 12:13:27 +1000, "Yowie"
<yowie9644.DIESPAMDIE@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
- Refer: <4csqqaF17bqc1U1@individual.net>
<joerevskelton@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:pjaag.17150$qd2.7980@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"The List Man" <listhunter@esotericwonders.com> wrote in message
news:4468DF70.D68F3FA@esotericwonders.com...
Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high
schools.
Gideons have regularly distributed Bibles in public schools since their
founding.
It is only within the past 25-30 years that there have been any
regulations
in any school system which would prevent them from doing so.
As the article you posted suggests, the only reason that some school
boards
have adopted regulations that would prevent them from doing so is that
Federal laws have gradually been developed to the point that it is now
pretty well impossible for school boards to allow them to do so without
also
allowing any group claiming a religious orientation to do the same.
When I graduated from highcschool (In Australia, 20 years ago), Gideons
via
the local Anglican church offered a free Bible to anyone who wanted one.
Some people took one, some didn't. They didn't force those who took one to
read it, didn't force those who read any of it to convert, and didn't
berate
those who chose not to take one. I thought it made a nice
I still can't see the problem with giving away a free book (with no
further
obligation, either) to anyone who wants one.
Yowie
It seems that it is only Australians who cannot see a problem with
getting something for free, with no strings attached.
I can't for the life of me see what the fuss is about.
No... sadly today on the radio I heard that there will in longer be a
Gideon's Bible in hotels or public hospitals because it is not politically
correct to supply one particular religious text without supplying them all.
I would have throught that if non-Christian religious groups wished to
supply their own religious texts, then they were free to do so. Its not like
anyone forces a person in hospital or a hotel to pick and read the thing.
Actually, whils tI was in hospital over easter (having jsut given birth to
my son) I would have really liked a "spiritual support" person to just sit
down and have a chat with me (I wasn' tparticularly fussy over which
tradition). What I really wanted was my mother, but she wasn't available
(being in a different country). However, unless I could specify the person i
wished to talk to, the hospital woldn't call someone in. I thought that was
rather sad, and an oppurtunity to do a great service for he community going
lacking. There are lots of people in hospital who just want a friendly
person to sit down and listen, to let them cry on their shoulder, to provide
support, but for fear of offending The Politically Correct, such people
aren't allowed in hospitals anymore unless they are a guest of a specific
patient.
I mean, I'm perfectly capable of telling someone introduding themsleves as
"A member of XYZ religious group" that I don't want to chat with them about
religion. But just as a 'friendly face' to those feeling lonely overwhelmed
and afraid...
Anyway, rant over.
Yowie
Sometimes when in a motel, and I've got nothing to read I pull out the
Giddy bible and have a good giggle at the nonsense.
What'm I gonna read now?
The telephone book has a great cast list, but a lousy plot.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Trainee Inquisitor of the month (2nd runner up: April)
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
15 May 2006 09:17:07 PM |
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|
On Mon, 15 May 2006 16:07:12 -0400, The List Man
<listhunter@esotericwonders.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4468DF70.D68F3FA@esotericwonders.com>
Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools.
:
I am a rabid atheist, but I don't have a problem with this.
The Gideons are not requiring state funding.
Where is the problem?
There is no better inducement to atheism than a bible, well read.
I say: "Bring 'em on!"
--
.
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| User: "Tigrah" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
16 May 2006 01:30:11 AM |
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|
I don't see a problem with it, they're not forcing each student to take one,
they're offering them to those who want them. I think the only person who
would find a problem with this are people who are violently against having
any show of religeon in schools and public places at all, like that woman
who rallied for prayer to be illegal. *shrug* I'm very pagan, but I dont
think it bothers me that the Gideons were at my college recently either.
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:0ddi62hpnc4p9o18egou5g9p9icnapm2n6@4ax.com...
On Mon, 15 May 2006 16:07:12 -0400, The List Man
<listhunter@esotericwonders.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4468DF70.D68F3FA@esotericwonders.com>
Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools.
:
I am a rabid atheist, but I don't have a problem with this.
The Gideons are not requiring state funding.
Where is the problem?
There is no better inducement to atheism than a bible, well read.
I say: "Bring 'em on!"
--
.
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| User: "LisaKay" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 03:59:32 PM |
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Tigrah wrote:
I don't see a problem with it, they're not forcing each student to take one,
they're offering them to those who want them. I think the only person who
would find a problem with this are people who are violently against having
any show of religeon in schools and public places at all, like that woman
who rallied for prayer to be illegal. *shrug* I'm very pagan, but I dont
think it bothers me that the Gideons were at my college recently either.
College students are adults and can make up their own minds. That
said, if all groups would be allowed to distribute their literature, I
would donate to pagan groups (I'm an atheist, by the way) and as many
other non-traditional religious groups as possible. I would almost
enjoy seeing the kids come home with very non-Christian literature. It
would certainly open some minds and freak out the close-minded!! :-)
-LisaKay
aa#2054
.
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| User: "Tigrah" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 07:59:21 PM |
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See, that's the thing though. Most pagans don't stand out there with
leaflets. I haven't heard of any religeons other than budhism and hari
krishnas that do that kind of thing. And I may even be wrong about that.
--
Tigrah
=^.^=
"LisaKay" <LisaKay2054@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147899572.407403.133850@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
College students are adults and can make up their own minds. That
said, if all groups would be allowed to distribute their literature, I
would donate to pagan groups (I'm an atheist, by the way) and as many
other non-traditional religious groups as possible. I would almost
enjoy seeing the kids come home with very non-Christian literature. It
would certainly open some minds and freak out the close-minded!! :-)
-LisaKay
aa#2054
.
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