Religions > Atheism > Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools.
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"The List Man" |
| Date: |
15 May 2006 03:07:12 PM |
| Object: |
Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools.
Southport, North Carolina's The State Port Pilot is reporting this
week that the Brunswick County Board of Education has backed down on
their planned policy to allow faith-based organizations into the
county's public high schools. Chairman Scott Milligan told the local
newspaper that, "I know many of you were expecting this to be approved
tonight, but after legal consideration and feedback and various points
of view, we still have some issues with it." The debate to change the
policies stemmed from an event that took place this past March where
the evangelistic group known as The Gideons International requested
permission to distribute bibles to students. Most of the bibles that
travelers find in their hotel rooms originate from this same group
of evangelists. As a result, they drafted a policy to grant "any"
religious group access to the high schools. The newspaper added that,
"Since approval of the first draft, board members have been bombarded
with requests to hand out materials from both Christian and non-Christian
faiths, including Buddhists, Wiccans and Pagans. The American Civil
Liberties Union and the Freedom From Religion Foundation have
threatened legal action." With fear of having to allow Wiccan
materials to be distributed to the schools and possible legal
action from the ACLU, they have decided to place it on hold. Board
member Jimmy Hobbs told the newspaper that, "When we started this
I said, ‘No one wants a lawsuit.’ We need much wisdom as we move
forward. There has been a lot of media hype on the issue. All I
wanted was some healthy debate. I’m in no way going to drop this
matter. I intend to push forward, but I will not rush into it."
Article: http://www.stateportpilot.com/stories/school-board0510.htm
This seems to be a rather sly and very slick tactic on the part of
Gideons International. They are trying to win the right to distribute
bibles in public high schools. They decided to target rural conservative
small towns like the small middle to upper class port town in North Carolina,
called Southport. It was only recently when the school board in the small
town of Dover, PA was voted out of that city only due to the opposition by
democratic voters. Unfortunately for them, the ACLU is never too far behind
them as local pagans are always eager to write to their local ACLU chapters
requesting their involvement. It was not until after the Brunswick County Board
of Education received pressure from the ACLU and other religious organizations
that they finally backed down on the clandestine policy.
Who is Gideons International?
They are an evangelical Christian organization that is funded by
numerous churches. Nearly 90% of the bibles that travelers find in
their hotel rooms come from this organization. The next time you travel
to a hotel, look at the cover of the bible. You are very likely to see
on the front cover their logo with the message, "Placed By The Gideons."
These bibles are given to the hotels for free as a result of the donations
that they receive from numerous churches. The bibles are also distributed
to prisons, hospitals, as well as military bases in the U.S. Their website
claims that they have delivered up to 63,000,000 scriptures worldwide in
over 80 languages in more than 180 countries around the world. They are
a massive organization.
Website: http://www.gideons.org/
They are very much a very large organization, and they have very much tried to
use their emense power to manipulate a small school board in a very rural part
of the United States known as Southport, North Carolina.
This is just another shrewd example of how religious organizations are
trying to sneak their way into the public school system. There is
something in common with most of these cases. Most of them take place
with well orchestrated plans by these multi-million dollar organizations
to target the schools in rural towns rather than in big cities where such
an effort would definitely spark more media attention. The ACLU is always
right on top of things like this and if you notice any activity in your
area, as a pagan, you are encouraged to write to the ACLU and other
organizations.
--
The List Man
http://www.esotericwonders.com
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
15 May 2006 08:56:39 PM |
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"The List Man" <listhunter@esotericwonders.com> wrote in message
news:4468DF70.D68F3FA@esotericwonders.com...
Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools.
Gideons have regularly distributed Bibles in public schools since their
founding.
It is only within the past 25-30 years that there have been any regulations
in any school system which would prevent them from doing so.
As the article you posted suggests, the only reason that some school boards
have adopted regulations that would prevent them from doing so is that
Federal laws have gradually been developed to the point that it is now
pretty well impossible for school boards to allow them to do so without also
allowing any group claiming a religious orientation to do the same.
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| User: "Yowie" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
15 May 2006 09:13:27 PM |
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<joerevskelton@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:pjaag.17150$qd2.7980@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"The List Man" <listhunter@esotericwonders.com> wrote in message
news:4468DF70.D68F3FA@esotericwonders.com...
Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools.
Gideons have regularly distributed Bibles in public schools since their
founding.
It is only within the past 25-30 years that there have been any
regulations
in any school system which would prevent them from doing so.
As the article you posted suggests, the only reason that some school
boards
have adopted regulations that would prevent them from doing so is that
Federal laws have gradually been developed to the point that it is now
pretty well impossible for school boards to allow them to do so without
also
allowing any group claiming a religious orientation to do the same.
When I graduated from highcschool (In Australia, 20 years ago), Gideons via
the local Anglican church offered a free Bible to anyone who wanted one.
Some people took one, some didn't. They didn't force those who took one to
read it, didn't force those who read any of it to convert, and didn't berate
those who chose not to take one. I thought it made a nice
I still can't see the problem with giving away a free book (with no further
obligation, either) to anyone who wants one.
Yowie
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
16 May 2006 04:18:22 AM |
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On Tue, 16 May 2006 12:13:27 +1000, "Yowie"
<yowie9644.DIESPAMDIE@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
- Refer: <4csqqaF17bqc1U1@individual.net>
<joerevskelton@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:pjaag.17150$qd2.7980@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"The List Man" <listhunter@esotericwonders.com> wrote in message
news:4468DF70.D68F3FA@esotericwonders.com...
Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools.
Gideons have regularly distributed Bibles in public schools since their
founding.
It is only within the past 25-30 years that there have been any
regulations
in any school system which would prevent them from doing so.
As the article you posted suggests, the only reason that some school
boards
have adopted regulations that would prevent them from doing so is that
Federal laws have gradually been developed to the point that it is now
pretty well impossible for school boards to allow them to do so without
also
allowing any group claiming a religious orientation to do the same.
When I graduated from highcschool (In Australia, 20 years ago), Gideons via
the local Anglican church offered a free Bible to anyone who wanted one.
Some people took one, some didn't. They didn't force those who took one to
read it, didn't force those who read any of it to convert, and didn't berate
those who chose not to take one. I thought it made a nice
I still can't see the problem with giving away a free book (with no further
obligation, either) to anyone who wants one.
Yowie
It seems that it is only Australians who cannot see a problem with
getting something for free, with no strings attached.
I can't for the life of me see what the fuss is about.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Trainee Inquisitor of the month (2nd runner up: April)
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
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| User: "Yowie" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
16 May 2006 09:31:09 PM |
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"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:k46j629kbmarm5ju3skgnb12btevndalgn@4ax.com...
On Tue, 16 May 2006 12:13:27 +1000, "Yowie"
<yowie9644.DIESPAMDIE@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
- Refer: <4csqqaF17bqc1U1@individual.net>
<joerevskelton@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:pjaag.17150$qd2.7980@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"The List Man" <listhunter@esotericwonders.com> wrote in message
news:4468DF70.D68F3FA@esotericwonders.com...
Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high
schools.
Gideons have regularly distributed Bibles in public schools since their
founding.
It is only within the past 25-30 years that there have been any
regulations
in any school system which would prevent them from doing so.
As the article you posted suggests, the only reason that some school
boards
have adopted regulations that would prevent them from doing so is that
Federal laws have gradually been developed to the point that it is now
pretty well impossible for school boards to allow them to do so without
also
allowing any group claiming a religious orientation to do the same.
When I graduated from highcschool (In Australia, 20 years ago), Gideons
via
the local Anglican church offered a free Bible to anyone who wanted one.
Some people took one, some didn't. They didn't force those who took one to
read it, didn't force those who read any of it to convert, and didn't
berate
those who chose not to take one. I thought it made a nice
I still can't see the problem with giving away a free book (with no
further
obligation, either) to anyone who wants one.
Yowie
It seems that it is only Australians who cannot see a problem with
getting something for free, with no strings attached.
I can't for the life of me see what the fuss is about.
No... sadly today on the radio I heard that there will in longer be a
Gideon's Bible in hotels or public hospitals because it is not politically
correct to supply one particular religious text without supplying them all.
I would have throught that if non-Christian religious groups wished to
supply their own religious texts, then they were free to do so. Its not like
anyone forces a person in hospital or a hotel to pick and read the thing.
Actually, whils tI was in hospital over easter (having jsut given birth to
my son) I would have really liked a "spiritual support" person to just sit
down and have a chat with me (I wasn' tparticularly fussy over which
tradition). What I really wanted was my mother, but she wasn't available
(being in a different country). However, unless I could specify the person i
wished to talk to, the hospital woldn't call someone in. I thought that was
rather sad, and an oppurtunity to do a great service for he community going
lacking. There are lots of people in hospital who just want a friendly
person to sit down and listen, to let them cry on their shoulder, to provide
support, but for fear of offending The Politically Correct, such people
aren't allowed in hospitals anymore unless they are a guest of a specific
patient.
I mean, I'm perfectly capable of telling someone introduding themsleves as
"A member of XYZ religious group" that I don't want to chat with them about
religion. But just as a 'friendly face' to those feeling lonely overwhelmed
and afraid...
Anyway, rant over.
Yowie
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 11:19:29 AM |
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"Yowie" <yowie9644.DIESPAMDIE@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
snip
Actually, whils tI was in hospital over easter (having jsut given birth to
my son) I would have really liked a "spiritual support" person to just sit
down and have a chat with me (I wasn' tparticularly fussy over which
tradition). What I really wanted was my mother, but she wasn't available
(being in a different country). However, unless I could specify the person
i wished to talk to, the hospital woldn't call someone in. I thought that
was rather sad, and an oppurtunity to do a great service for he community
going lacking. There are lots of people in hospital who just want a
friendly person to sit down and listen, to let them cry on their shoulder,
to provide support, but for fear of offending The Politically Correct,
such people aren't allowed in hospitals anymore unless they are a guest of
a specific patient.
I mean, I'm perfectly capable of telling someone introduding themsleves as
"A member of XYZ religious group" that I don't want to chat with them
about religion. But just as a 'friendly face' to those feeling lonely
overwhelmed and afraid...
Anyway, rant over.
That is sad. The hospital where I gave birth to my daughter has people that
do just that - Be the friendly face without any religion involved
whatsoever. They just wander the halls and stop into rooms and talk to
people. Unfortunately, I'm one of those people that didn't want to talk and
while her intentions were the best, I didn't appreciate her visit. I prefer
to be left alone, but that's just me.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
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| User: "Rev. Bear" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
20 May 2006 02:45:17 AM |
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"Yowie" <yowie9644.DIESPAMDIE@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4cvg79F17j3nmU1@individual.net...
[SNIP]
Actually, whils tI was in hospital over easter (having jsut given birth to
my son) I would have really liked a "spiritual support" person to just sit
down and have a chat with me (I wasn' tparticularly fussy over which
tradition). What I really wanted was my mother, but she wasn't available
(being in a different country). However, unless I could specify the person
i wished to talk to, the hospital woldn't call someone in. I thought that
was rather sad, and an oppurtunity to do a great service for he community
going lacking. There are lots of people in hospital who just want a
friendly person to sit down and listen, to let them cry on their shoulder,
to provide support, but for fear of offending The Politically Correct,
such people aren't allowed in hospitals anymore unless they are a guest of
a specific patient.
I mean, I'm perfectly capable of telling someone introduding themsleves as
"A member of XYZ religious group" that I don't want to chat with them
about religion. But just as a 'friendly face' to those feeling lonely
overwhelmed and afraid...
Anyway, rant over.
The very reason there are a few of us here in Australia currently starting
non-denominational and inter-faith church groups so that we can serve people
that fall into this category. We are trying to sort out a national
representative body that the individual congregations can belong to, and
whilst they may all stem or be inspired by one (or more) of these on-line
church groups in the USA, the Australian body is going to have some of its
own measures to give some validity to the ministers and such..
Personally I am Pagan and hence want to serve some of the Pagan community,
but I am also happy to sit and talk with others that are not necessarily of
the strict Christian dogma and hence can't nominate a particular
denomination.. I hope some others with similar views will get behind this
idea and support us as it promises to give Pagans and many other
non-Christians access to "Ministers" in hospitals and eventually religious
marriage celebrants willing to conduct marriages according to YOUR belief
and not theirs!
Anyway, that's my rant.. anyone want more info on this they can always
contact me by email:
bear_dingo AT yahoo DOT com DOT au (you know what to replace with what..)
Blessed Be!
Yowie
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| User: "Yeata" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
16 May 2006 10:20:59 PM |
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Did you ever notice that instead of just finding a way to make
everything work, people just become all pissy and get things outlawed?
It's like the people that think that Harry Potter books are books to
teach their children to be devil worshippers - they get the book banned
instead of just ignoring it...
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| User: "Yowie" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 12:49:02 AM |
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"Yeata" <YeataMoon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1147836059.330776.19010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Did you ever notice that instead of just finding a way to make
everything work, people just become all pissy and get things outlawed?
It's like the people that think that Harry Potter books are books to
teach their children to be devil worshippers - they get the book banned
instead of just ignoring it...
And thereby giving it far more attention that it actually deserved, too.
I doubt that _The DaVinci Code_ would have been half as popular had various
Christian groups not given it such an incredible amount of free publicity.
Now, as soon as they cotton on to this, they should try banning the Bible,
and watch everyone start reading it to see what the fuss is all about
(nah, wouldn't work. They want more people to sign up for their cult, not
people who actually read the book. Reading the Bible without first being
indoctrinated with 'the correct intepretation' could well *prevent* people
from joining. LOL)
Yowie
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| User: "Melanie Boxall" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 07:43:14 AM |
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Absolutely...Free publicity. Forbidden fruits and all that.... probably also
means that more Christians themselves read it than otherwise would. I
chuckle over that every time I think about it.
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
"Yowie" <yowie9644.DIESPAMDIE@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4cvrqiF17n37nU1@individual.net...
"Yeata" <YeataMoon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1147836059.330776.19010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Did you ever notice that instead of just finding a way to make
everything work, people just become all pissy and get things outlawed?
It's like the people that think that Harry Potter books are books to
teach their children to be devil worshippers - they get the book banned
instead of just ignoring it...
And thereby giving it far more attention that it actually deserved, too.
I doubt that _The DaVinci Code_ would have been half as popular had
various
Christian groups not given it such an incredible amount of free publicity.
Now, as soon as they cotton on to this, they should try banning the Bible,
and watch everyone start reading it to see what the fuss is all about
(nah, wouldn't work. They want more people to sign up for their cult, not
people who actually read the book. Reading the Bible without first being
indoctrinated with 'the correct intepretation' could well *prevent* people
from joining. LOL)
Yowie
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 08:14:54 AM |
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On Wed, 17 May 2006 08:43:14 -0400, "Melanie Boxall"
<melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Absolutely...Free publicity. Forbidden fruits and all that.... probably also
means that more Christians themselves read it than otherwise would. I
chuckle over that every time I think about it.
When I was about 8 or 9, in England, my schoolteacher gave them to the
class. I didn't even bother to read it and threw it in the rubbish
bin. She was upset, retrieved it and gave me a lecture that I might
"learn something".
I'd already crossed swords with her when she had realised I hadn't
been brainwashed to believe by my parents, after which I treated her
as an idiot who expected people to believe fairy stories - I can still
remember my puzzled "why did it need a 'who'?" when she asked who
created everything.
It's sad when a teacher is that stupid, and makes the kids aware of
that.
There is no excuse for "giving them away" to people who aren't that
religion.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 08:38:20 PM |
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On Wed, 17 May 2006 09:14:54 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
- Refer: <kr7m62p4m9tcf2cdm5ippcdd7qf3elqqgu@4ax.com>
On Wed, 17 May 2006 08:43:14 -0400, "Melanie Boxall"
<melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Absolutely...Free publicity. Forbidden fruits and all that.... probably also
means that more Christians themselves read it than otherwise would. I
chuckle over that every time I think about it.
When I was about 8 or 9, in England, my schoolteacher gave them to the
class. I didn't even bother to read it and threw it in the rubbish
bin. She was upset, retrieved it and gave me a lecture that I might
"learn something".
I'd already crossed swords with her when she had realised I hadn't
been brainwashed to believe by my parents, after which I treated her
as an idiot who expected people to believe fairy stories - I can still
remember my puzzled "why did it need a 'who'?" when she asked who
created everything.
It's sad when a teacher is that stupid, and makes the kids aware of
that.
There is no excuse for "giving them away" to people who aren't that
religion.
I had two teachers like that. (Not at the same time)
A few of my classmates could spot the idiocy fairly oozing out of
them.
Whenever I get presented with a "Bell Cruve" normal distrubution, I
think of them.
They are way at the lower end of the intelligence chart for teachers.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Trainee Inquisitor of the month (2nd runner up: April)
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
.
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| User: "Tigrah" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 09:43:59 AM |
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See, that's not right. The situation you're speaking of is where the
children don't have the choice to take them or not to, according to the
teacher's teaching lessons. That's where I'd fight the system and have to
get all uppity about it. But that's not the Gideons doing it. Its the
teacher. Your teacher should have been smacked. But heh... that's neither
here nor there anymore, is it?
--
Tig
=^.^=
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:kr7m62p4m9tcf2cdm5ippcdd7qf3elqqgu@4ax.com...
On Wed, 17 May 2006 08:43:14 -0400, "Melanie Boxall"
<melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Absolutely...Free publicity. Forbidden fruits and all that.... probably
also
means that more Christians themselves read it than otherwise would. I
chuckle over that every time I think about it.
When I was about 8 or 9, in England, my schoolteacher gave them to the
class. I didn't even bother to read it and threw it in the rubbish
bin. She was upset, retrieved it and gave me a lecture that I might
"learn something".
I'd already crossed swords with her when she had realised I hadn't
been brainwashed to believe by my parents, after which I treated her
as an idiot who expected people to believe fairy stories - I can still
remember my puzzled "why did it need a 'who'?" when she asked who
created everything.
It's sad when a teacher is that stupid, and makes the kids aware of
that.
There is no excuse for "giving them away" to people who aren't that
religion.
.
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| User: "Melanie Boxall" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 03:28:54 PM |
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English schools are often church-sponsored, so it's a bit different, and
when I was a child we were often marched to church. Remember Great Britain
is a de facto theocracy. Oddly enough however, these days there's more
freedom of religion there............funny old world.
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
"Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org> wrote in message
news:126mdl0bqrj1b50@corp.supernews.com...
See, that's not right. The situation you're speaking of is where the
children don't have the choice to take them or not to, according to the
teacher's teaching lessons. That's where I'd fight the system and have to
get all uppity about it. But that's not the Gideons doing it. Its the
teacher. Your teacher should have been smacked. But heh... that's neither
here nor there anymore, is it?
--
Tig
=^.^=
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:kr7m62p4m9tcf2cdm5ippcdd7qf3elqqgu@4ax.com...
On Wed, 17 May 2006 08:43:14 -0400, "Melanie Boxall"
<melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Absolutely...Free publicity. Forbidden fruits and all that.... probably
also
means that more Christians themselves read it than otherwise would. I
chuckle over that every time I think about it.
When I was about 8 or 9, in England, my schoolteacher gave them to the
class. I didn't even bother to read it and threw it in the rubbish
bin. She was upset, retrieved it and gave me a lecture that I might
"learn something".
I'd already crossed swords with her when she had realised I hadn't
been brainwashed to believe by my parents, after which I treated her
as an idiot who expected people to believe fairy stories - I can still
remember my puzzled "why did it need a 'who'?" when she asked who
created everything.
It's sad when a teacher is that stupid, and makes the kids aware of
that.
There is no excuse for "giving them away" to people who aren't that
religion.
.
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| User: "Tigrah" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 07:56:47 PM |
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I had a couple of those, but they were my mother's religeon rather than the
usual christian school. But then, the teacher was abusive and hit me in
front of the other students. Imagine his suprise when I got him as an
instructor again in 9th grade and got him fired for abuse again.
--
Tigrah
=^.^=
"Melanie Boxall" <melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:dILag.8455$aa4.235864@news20.bellglobal.com...
English schools are often church-sponsored, so it's a bit different, and
when I was a child we were often marched to church. Remember Great Britain
is a de facto theocracy. Oddly enough however, these days there's more
freedom of religion there............funny old world.
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
.
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| User: "Melanie Boxall" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 06:15:25 AM |
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Good for you. What kind of school has instructors like that?
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
"Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org> wrote in message
news:126nhii8mmi9ha5@corp.supernews.com...
I had a couple of those, but they were my mother's religeon rather than the
usual christian school. But then, the teacher was abusive and hit me in
front of the other students. Imagine his suprise when I got him as an
instructor again in 9th grade and got him fired for abuse again.
--
Tigrah
=^.^=
"Melanie Boxall" <melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:dILag.8455$aa4.235864@news20.bellglobal.com...
English schools are often church-sponsored, so it's a bit different, and
when I was a child we were often marched to church. Remember Great
Britain is a de facto theocracy. Oddly enough however, these days there's
more freedom of religion there............funny old world.
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
.
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| User: "Tigrah" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 09:45:14 AM |
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The kind that believe in Seventh Day Adventism and that anyone who doesn't
conform to their rules is evil and must be punished.
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"Melanie Boxall" <melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:lHYag.8695$aa4.282891@news20.bellglobal.com...
Good for you. What kind of school has instructors like that?
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
"Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org> wrote in message
news:126nhii8mmi9ha5@corp.supernews.com...
I had a couple of those, but they were my mother's religeon rather than
the usual christian school. But then, the teacher was abusive and hit me
in front of the other students. Imagine his suprise when I got him as an
instructor again in 9th grade and got him fired for abuse again.
--
Tigrah
=^.^=
"Melanie Boxall" <melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:dILag.8455$aa4.235864@news20.bellglobal.com...
English schools are often church-sponsored, so it's a bit different, and
when I was a child we were often marched to church. Remember Great
Britain is a de facto theocracy. Oddly enough however, these days
there's more freedom of religion there............funny old world.
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
.
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| User: "Melanie Boxall" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 11:49:05 AM |
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Ah, now that makes sense. Didn't realize they had their own schools (i.e.
didn't realize there were enough of them in an area to make that
cost-effective for them...do they have areas where they are more numerous? I
feel very ignorant here). But it's no shock as my soon-to-be-son-in-law was
abused by an SDA father, and he justified all his abuses with the book. They
have a very...interesting...way of interpretating it.
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
"Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org> wrote in message
news:126p23pm0ordb5f@corp.supernews.com...
The kind that believe in Seventh Day Adventism and that anyone who doesn't
conform to their rules is evil and must be punished.
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"Melanie Boxall" <melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:lHYag.8695$aa4.282891@news20.bellglobal.com...
Good for you. What kind of school has instructors like that?
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
"Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org> wrote in message
news:126nhii8mmi9ha5@corp.supernews.com...
I had a couple of those, but they were my mother's religeon rather than
the usual christian school. But then, the teacher was abusive and hit me
in front of the other students. Imagine his suprise when I got him as an
instructor again in 9th grade and got him fired for abuse again.
--
Tigrah
=^.^=
"Melanie Boxall" <melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:dILag.8455$aa4.235864@news20.bellglobal.com...
English schools are often church-sponsored, so it's a bit different,
and when I was a child we were often marched to church. Remember Great
Britain is a de facto theocracy. Oddly enough however, these days
there's more freedom of religion there............funny old world.
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
.
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| User: "Tigrah" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 01:33:10 PM |
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California has two major colleges run by SDA, Loma Linda and another one.
Both produce various vegetarian food products, like Veggilinks, Wham,
FryChick and a few others. Fakie meats for those veggies. I like the Veggie
scallops better than the real thing to be honest. Never had the real thing
growing up, but had the veggie kind. When I tasted the real thing I didn't
like it. But their hot dogs are good (Veggilinks). Dayton Ohio has another
of their major colleges, I can't remember the name of it, didn't care when I
heard it. But yeah, the cities they congregate in, most of the time, if they
have a church, they have a gradeschool at least, and often there are
boarding schools for high school. I went to gradeschool for half a year at
Grand Island Seventh Day Adventist Elementary and then in high school, I
spent a year at Platte Valley Academy. Both schools were run by the SDA
church who, like Mormons do with Joseph Smith, hold up Ellen G. White as a
prophet. She didn't write an addition to a bible, but she did write a LOT of
books. And considering that she lived in the late 1800s to early 1900s, she
had a lot of respect from men for a woman. SDA talk of her writings as if it
were the word of their god, but they refuse to acknowledge them as a
continued bible.
SDA focuses a lot of time on Daniel and Revelations, so they're always
seeing signs of the end of the world. Mom ignored me when I said every
century has those same signs. Who gets to play the antichrist this year?
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"Melanie Boxall" <melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:8A1bg.8844$aa4.295316@news20.bellglobal.com...
Ah, now that makes sense. Didn't realize they had their own schools (i.e.
didn't realize there were enough of them in an area to make that
cost-effective for them...do they have areas where they are more numerous?
I feel very ignorant here). But it's no shock as my soon-to-be-son-in-law
was abused by an SDA father, and he justified all his abuses with the
book. They have a very...interesting...way of interpretating it.
.
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| User: "Melanie Boxall" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 02:13:18 PM |
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Oh man, I'd have fun with her then, as I've taken Daniel apart. And
Revelations has been hammered by the historical critical method (I have a
friend in theological school, I've picked the jargon up).
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
"Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org> wrote in message
news:126pff5n1qse0ae@corp.supernews.com...
California has two major colleges run by SDA, Loma Linda and another one.
Both produce various vegetarian food products, like Veggilinks, Wham,
FryChick and a few others. Fakie meats for those veggies. I like the
Veggie scallops better than the real thing to be honest. Never had the
real thing growing up, but had the veggie kind. When I tasted the real
thing I didn't like it. But their hot dogs are good (Veggilinks). Dayton
Ohio has another of their major colleges, I can't remember the name of it,
didn't care when I heard it. But yeah, the cities they congregate in, most
of the time, if they have a church, they have a gradeschool at least, and
often there are boarding schools for high school. I went to gradeschool
for half a year at Grand Island Seventh Day Adventist Elementary and then
in high school, I spent a year at Platte Valley Academy. Both schools were
run by the SDA church who, like Mormons do with Joseph Smith, hold up
Ellen G. White as a prophet. She didn't write an addition to a bible, but
she did write a LOT of books. And considering that she lived in the late
1800s to early 1900s, she had a lot of respect from men for a woman. SDA
talk of her writings as if it were the word of their god, but they refuse
to acknowledge them as a continued bible.
SDA focuses a lot of time on Daniel and Revelations, so they're always
seeing signs of the end of the world. Mom ignored me when I said every
century has those same signs. Who gets to play the antichrist this year?
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"Melanie Boxall" <melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:8A1bg.8844$aa4.295316@news20.bellglobal.com...
Ah, now that makes sense. Didn't realize they had their own schools (i.e.
didn't realize there were enough of them in an area to make that
cost-effective for them...do they have areas where they are more
numerous? I feel very ignorant here). But it's no shock as my
soon-to-be-son-in-law was abused by an SDA father, and he justified all
his abuses with the book. They have a very...interesting...way of
interpretating it.
.
|
|
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| User: "Yowie" |
|
| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
18 May 2006 05:16:06 PM |
|
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"Melanie Boxall" <melanie.boxall@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:lH3bg.8899$aa4.298502@news20.bellglobal.com...
Oh man, I'd have fun with her then, as I've taken Daniel apart. And
Revelations has been hammered by the historical critical method (I have a
friend in theological school, I've picked the jargon up).
It doesn't work. Any SDA who has swallowed the Daneil & Revelation thing
whole will have also managed to swallow all the refutations to to any
argument you can make with them. Of course, the refutations are based on
their interpretation of The Bible (and their prophetess) and don't stand up
to facts or logic, but they'll cling to their own peculiar interpretation of
hte words in that book for dear life, and ht emore you press, the stronger
they'll believe.
And if you manage to trap them into a logical corner they can't get out of,
they'll just declare you an agent of The Evil One and then dismiss you and
anything you say as The Devil's Work. Which is what my ex's pastor did to
me, and after that, my ex also treated me like the devil's spawn. Whilst
there were other issues between my ex and me, I can pinpoint the rapid
decline in our relationship to the point where he got involved in the SDA
church.
I do have to say that there were also quite a number of fairly regular folk
in the SDA church of my ex, not much diferent than regular conservative
Christians who were actually really nice, welcoming and always friendly and
respectful to me, the non-believer. But there's also an undercurrent in that
church that is based on conspiracy theory and outright paranoia that
ensnares alot of people.
Yowie
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 09:54:49 AM |
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On Wed, 17 May 2006 08:43:59 -0600, "Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org>
wrote:
See, that's not right. The situation you're speaking of is where the
children don't have the choice to take them or not to, according to the
teacher's teaching lessons. That's where I'd fight the system and have to
get all uppity about it. But that's not the Gideons doing it. Its the
teacher. Your teacher should have been smacked. But heh... that's neither
here nor there anymore, is it?
It's both. The Gideons should not do it. Nor should the teacher. The
school should be religion-neutral. It's up to the parents to teach
what religion (if any).
.
|
|
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| User: "Tigrah" |
|
| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 10:25:37 AM |
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Thats true. However, the Gideons don't make people take their little books.
They have them there should the person choose to read it. They don't force
it into their hands. I have yet to walk by the Gideonites and have them make
me take one of their books, either as a child or as an adult. I know that
pagans don't go around advertising our religeon and trying to force feed it
to people, or even offer little books of spiritual enlightenment, but what's
wrong with someone caring?
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:e2em625s5eo3v8t038lahe8a8agalct0t8@4ax.com...
On Wed, 17 May 2006 08:43:59 -0600, "Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org>
wrote:
See, that's not right. The situation you're speaking of is where the
children don't have the choice to take them or not to, according to the
teacher's teaching lessons. That's where I'd fight the system and have to
get all uppity about it. But that's not the Gideons doing it. Its the
teacher. Your teacher should have been smacked. But heh... that's neither
here nor there anymore, is it?
It's both. The Gideons should not do it. Nor should the teacher. The
school should be religion-neutral. It's up to the parents to teach
what religion (if any).
.
|
|
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 10:30:21 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 17 May 2006 09:25:37 -0600, "Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org>
wrote:
Thats true. However, the Gideons don't make people take their little books.
They have them there should the person choose to read it. They don't force
it into their hands. I have yet to walk by the Gideonites and have them make
me take one of their books, either as a child or as an adult. I know that
pagans don't go around advertising our religeon and trying to force feed it
to people, or even offer little books of spiritual enlightenment, but what's
wrong with someone caring?
We're talking about in schools, where there is a captive audience who
are supposed to trust and obey the teacher.
It's not "caring". It's intolerance of other beliefs.
.
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| User: "Tigrah" |
|
| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 10:44:29 AM |
|
|
Yes, as was I. You were also talking about another time, you were saying
about how you were a child, and for me, childhood was before prayer in
school was outlawed in the US.
You seem to forget the facts when you're blathering on about how abused you
are. I am speaking of now, where captive audiences for religeon are only in
churches or KKK meetings. Again, things that parents force on their
children, not something that everyone has to do.
Perhaps you should actually read the post before your knee jerk reaction to
start a flame war.
Gideonites I see are at the school. And they never have forced me to take
their little books, they simply offered it if I wanted it.
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:n8gm625v7j7usgqhbd8tjg7sh6u0rob6oe@4ax.com...
On Wed, 17 May 2006 09:25:37 -0600, "Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org>
wrote:
Thats true. However, the Gideons don't make people take their little
books.
They have them there should the person choose to read it. They don't force
it into their hands. I have yet to walk by the Gideonites and have them
make
me take one of their books, either as a child or as an adult. I know that
pagans don't go around advertising our religeon and trying to force feed
it
to people, or even offer little books of spiritual enlightenment, but
what's
wrong with someone caring?
We're talking about in schools, where there is a captive audience who
are supposed to trust and obey the teacher.
It's not "caring". It's intolerance of other beliefs.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 10:54:56 AM |
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|
On Wed, 17 May 2006 09:44:29 -0600, "Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org>
wrote:
Yes, as was I. You were also talking about another time, you were saying
about how you were a child, and for me, childhood was before prayer in
school was outlawed in the US.
In a thread about it happening today.
You seem to forget the facts when you're blathering on about how abused you
are. I am speaking of now, where captive audiences for religeon are only in
churches or KKK meetings. Again, things that parents force on their
children, not something that everyone has to do.
Are you really such an *****, or just pretending for effect?
Perhaps you should actually read the post before your knee jerk reaction to
start a flame war.
I did. And There was no "knee-jerk reaction" outside your nastiness.
Gideonites I see are at the school. And they never have forced me to take
their little books, they simply offered it if I wanted it.
They should not have been at the school. Period.
.
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| User: "Tigrah" |
|
| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 11:32:41 AM |
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|
Replies are below.
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ulhm62tgch8uatkq269iuu5as0gapfeqrm@4ax.com...
On Wed, 17 May 2006 09:44:29 -0600, "Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org>
wrote:
Yes, as was I. You were also talking about another time, you were saying
about how you were a child, and for me, childhood was before prayer in
school was outlawed in the US.
In a thread about it happening today.
The thread happening today is about what's going on now, not what went on
when
you were a child and therefore my knowledge rests on that.
You seem to forget the facts when you're blathering on about how abused
you
are. I am speaking of now, where captive audiences for religeon are only
in
churches or KKK meetings. Again, things that parents force on their
children, not something that everyone has to do.
Are you really such an *****, or just pretending for effect?
Actually, it's *****. And yes.
Perhaps you should actually read the post before your knee jerk reaction
to
start a flame war.
I did. And There was no "knee-jerk reaction" outside your nastiness.
I have not been nasty. Would you like me to be?
Gideonites I see are at the school. And they never have forced me to take
their little books, they simply offered it if I wanted it.
They should not have been at the school. Period.
People aren't banned from being places yet, freedom of speech is still
something we
Americans hold dear. And as much as people don't like to hear it, freedom of
religeon
means any religeon, and freedom of speech means I can tell you you're a
***** or you can tell me I'm a *****, and neither of us would get hauled off
to prison for it. People have a right in my country to say what they want,
believe what they want. You have the right to believe that religeon should
be kept away from the school entirely,
and that's your right, everyone has opinions. Yours is yours, mine is mine.
I don't think they're hurting anyone
by being at the school. You believe they're abusing everyone. That's your
apparent opinion, anyway.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 11:53:42 AM |
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|
On Wed, 17 May 2006 10:32:41 -0600, "Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org>
wrote:
Replies are below.
--
Naughty, naughty. Using the .sig separator, troll?
Perhaps you should actually read the post before your knee jerk reaction
to
start a flame war.
I did. And There was no "knee-jerk reaction" outside your nastiness.
I have not been nasty. Would you like me to be?
Was it some other ***** who lied about "your knee jerk reaction to
start a flame war"?
<plonk> the latest troll
Anybody know which of the regular loonies this is?
.
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| User: "Dean" |
|
| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 01:05:53 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee wrote:
I have not been nasty. Would you like me to be?
Was it some other ***** who lied about "your knee jerk reaction to
start a flame war"?
<plonk> the latest troll
Anybody know which of the regular loonies this is?
I suspect it is someone from one of the pagan/wicca/witchcraft groups
to which this was cross-posted. Given the top-posting it is probably a
Usenet newbie.
.
|
|
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| User: "Tigrah" |
|
| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 01:36:11 PM |
|
|
Nope, not a newbie. Just prefer to not have to scroll down to the bottom of
a lot of useless dribble to get to the meat of the reply.
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147889153.772601.161260@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I suspect it is someone from one of the pagan/wicca/witchcraft groups
to which this was cross-posted. Given the top-posting it is probably a
Usenet newbie.
.
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|
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| User: "Melanie Boxall" |
|
| Title: Re: Gideons International is trying to sneak bibles into rural high schools. |
17 May 2006 03:30:39 PM |
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LOL, I know that feeling!
(Ten years and still stubbornly posting at the top)
--
Melanie the Determined
http://stores.ebay.ca/Mooncats-Basement
(Don't dream it; BE it!)
"Tigrah" <felinefan@pmt.org> wrote in message
news:126mr89rl583811@corp.supernews.com...
Nope, not a newbie. Just prefer to not have to scroll down to the bottom
of a lot of useless dribble to get to the meat of the reply.
--
Heather
=^.^= Feline Fanatica Graphics
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147889153.772601.161260@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I suspect it is someone from one of the pagan/wicca/witchcraft groups
to which this was cross-posted. Given the top-posting it is probably a
Usenet newbie.
.
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