| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Michelle Malkin" |
| Date: |
09 Jan 2008 12:07:33 PM |
| Object: |
Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
This is the real Giuliani. Out of the mouth of a Republican fascist.
Some Free Speech On Mayor's Words
a.. Published: March 17, 1994
b.. The New York Times
Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani discussed his philosophy of what freedom means in
a democracy yesterday at a forum on urban crime, and his remarks left a
civil libertarian puzzled and worried.
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said New Yorkers
were inclined to "see only the oppressive side of authority."
"What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do
anything they want, be anything they can be," he said at the forum,
sponsored by The New York Post. "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is
about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful
authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Asked later about his remarks, Mr. Giuliani said governmental authorities in
American society had fallen into disrepute in the last 30 years. He said
anarchy would result if everyone were allowed to behave exactly as he wanted
and cited Oliver Wendell Holmes's adage that freedom of expression does not
include shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.
Norman Siegel, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union,
said he was "floored" by the Mayor's definition.
"Order is an element of freedom," Mr. Siegel said. "But to put the emphasis
on order rather than on a just and fair society is inverting the meaning and
significance of freedom."
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| User: "655321" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
09 Jan 2008 08:43:46 PM |
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In article <csmdnYTngpfHkBjanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said
"9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11,
9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11,
9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, ..."
--
655321
"We are heroes in error" -- Ahmad Chalabi
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
09 Jan 2008 11:58:12 PM |
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655321 wrote:
In article <csmdnYTngpfHkBjanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said
"9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11,
9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11,
9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, ..."
"Hold on, it's my wife. Hello? Yes, honey, I'll be home soon. Love
ya. Bye. Now, as I was saying, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11..."
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act *
* of the whole American people which declared that *
* their legislature should make no law respecting *
* an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the *
* free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of *
* separation between church and state." *
* --Thomas Jefferson, 1802 *
****************************************************
.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
10 Jan 2008 02:09:50 AM |
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On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:58:12 -0800, DanielSan
<petersonj07@comcast.net> wrote:
655321 wrote:
In article <csmdnYTngpfHkBjanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said
"9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11,
9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11,
9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, ..."
"Hold on, it's my wife. Hello? Yes, honey, I'll be home soon. Love
ya. Bye. Now, as I was saying, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11..."
"...and did I mention that I'm the genius who put both the city's
Emergency Response Center and an enormous fuel tank in the only site
that had ever been a previous target for terrorist attack..."
---
"Faith may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to skyscrapers..."
.
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| User: "Kenny McCormack" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
09 Jan 2008 09:00:33 PM |
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In article <DipthotDipthot-8191B3.18434409012008@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:
In article <csmdnYTngpfHkBjanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said
"9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11,
9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11,
9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, ..."
Every sentence contains a noun, a verb, and 9/11.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
10 Jan 2008 02:28:52 AM |
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In article <csmdnYTngpfHkBjanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
This is the real Giuliani. Out of the mouth of a Republican fascist.
Some Free Speech On Mayor's Words
a.. Published: March 17, 1994
b.. The New York Times
Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani discussed his philosophy of what freedom means in
a democracy yesterday at a forum on urban crime, and his remarks left a
civil libertarian puzzled and worried.
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said New Yorkers
were inclined to "see only the oppressive side of authority."
"What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do
anything they want, be anything they can be," he said at the forum,
sponsored by The New York Post. "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is
about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful
authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Asked later about his remarks, Mr. Giuliani said governmental authorities in
American society had fallen into disrepute in the last 30 years. He said
anarchy would result if everyone were allowed to behave exactly as he wanted
and cited Oliver Wendell Holmes's adage that freedom of expression does not
include shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.
Norman Siegel, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union,
said he was "floored" by the Mayor's definition.
"Order is an element of freedom," Mr. Siegel said. "But to put the emphasis
on order rather than on a just and fair society is inverting the meaning and
significance of freedom."
So if he's elected will he demand to be addressed as "Il Duce"?
--
John #1782
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
10 Jan 2008 09:52:51 AM |
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On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:28:52 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <csmdnYTngpfHkBjanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
This is the real Giuliani. Out of the mouth of a Republican fascist.
Some Free Speech On Mayor's Words
a.. Published: March 17, 1994
b.. The New York Times
Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani discussed his philosophy of what freedom means in
a democracy yesterday at a forum on urban crime, and his remarks left a
civil libertarian puzzled and worried.
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said New Yorkers
were inclined to "see only the oppressive side of authority."
"What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do
anything they want, be anything they can be," he said at the forum,
sponsored by The New York Post. "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is
about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful
authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Asked later about his remarks, Mr. Giuliani said governmental authorities in
American society had fallen into disrepute in the last 30 years. He said
anarchy would result if everyone were allowed to behave exactly as he wanted
and cited Oliver Wendell Holmes's adage that freedom of expression does not
include shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.
Norman Siegel, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union,
said he was "floored" by the Mayor's definition.
"Order is an element of freedom," Mr. Siegel said. "But to put the emphasis
on order rather than on a just and fair society is inverting the meaning and
significance of freedom."
So if he's elected will he demand to be addressed as "Il Duce"?
Q: what's the difference between Rudy Giuliani and the Hindenburg?
A: One is a flaming Nazi gasbag, and the other is a zeppelin.
New Yorkers have known the truth about this nasty little fascist
monster for years. Had his term ended on 9/10/01, he'd be a footnote
in history as one of the most unpopular, divisive figures in the
history of NYC politics. Hopefully the rest of the country won't have
to learn the hard way.
---
"Faith may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to skyscrapers..."
.
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| User: "655321" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
11 Jan 2008 09:12:21 PM |
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In article <1gfco3dbd8et4hpm809omcj9t0gnujfise@4ax.com>,
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
Had his term ended on 9/10/01, he'd be a footnote
in history as one of the most unpopular, divisive figures in the
history of NYC politics.
Except for those who swallow his claims about "cleaning up" NYC.
--
655321
"We are heroes in error" -- Ahmad Chalabi
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
12 Jan 2008 03:20:19 AM |
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On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:12:21 -0800, 655321
<DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:
In article <1gfco3dbd8et4hpm809omcj9t0gnujfise@4ax.com>,
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
Had his term ended on 9/10/01, he'd be a footnote
in history as one of the most unpopular, divisive figures in the
history of NYC politics.
Except for those who swallow his claims about "cleaning up" NYC.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, most of the credit should go to David
Dinkins' Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, who instituted the policies
and procedures that Giuliani's Commissioners (one currently under
felony indictment for egregiously abusing his office) continued.
Giuliani's successor, Mike Bloomberg was astute enough to realize
this, and re-hired Kelly immediately on taking office. Crime under
Bloomberg and Kelly has subsequently fallen even further and faster
than under Giuliani.
---
"Faith may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to skyscrapers..."
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
11 Jan 2008 01:48:30 AM |
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In article <1gfco3dbd8et4hpm809omcj9t0gnujfise@4ax.com>,
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:28:52 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <csmdnYTngpfHkBjanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
This is the real Giuliani. Out of the mouth of a Republican fascist.
Some Free Speech On Mayor's Words
a.. Published: March 17, 1994
b.. The New York Times
Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani discussed his philosophy of what freedom means
in
a democracy yesterday at a forum on urban crime, and his remarks left a
civil libertarian puzzled and worried.
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said New Yorkers
were inclined to "see only the oppressive side of authority."
"What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do
anything they want, be anything they can be," he said at the forum,
sponsored by The New York Post. "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is
about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful
authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Asked later about his remarks, Mr. Giuliani said governmental authorities
in
American society had fallen into disrepute in the last 30 years. He said
anarchy would result if everyone were allowed to behave exactly as he
wanted
and cited Oliver Wendell Holmes's adage that freedom of expression does
not
include shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.
Norman Siegel, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties
Union,
said he was "floored" by the Mayor's definition.
"Order is an element of freedom," Mr. Siegel said. "But to put the
emphasis
on order rather than on a just and fair society is inverting the meaning
and
significance of freedom."
So if he's elected will he demand to be addressed as "Il Duce"?
Q: what's the difference between Rudy Giuliani and the Hindenburg?
A: One is a flaming Nazi gasbag, and the other is a zeppelin.
New Yorkers have known the truth about this nasty little fascist
monster for years. Had his term ended on 9/10/01, he'd be a footnote
in history as one of the most unpopular, divisive figures in the
history of NYC politics. Hopefully the rest of the country won't have
to learn the hard way.
I know. I have a lot of friends in the area and none of them have much
love for 'Rotten Rudy'.
---
"Faith may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to
skyscrapers..."
--
John #1782
.
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
11 Jan 2008 03:15:56 AM |
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"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-294594.23483010012008@news.giganews.com...
In article <1gfco3dbd8et4hpm809omcj9t0gnujfise@4ax.com>,
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:28:52 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <csmdnYTngpfHkBjanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
This is the real Giuliani. Out of the mouth of a Republican fascist.
Some Free Speech On Mayor's Words
a.. Published: March 17, 1994
b.. The New York Times
Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani discussed his philosophy of what freedom
means
in
a democracy yesterday at a forum on urban crime, and his remarks left
a
civil libertarian puzzled and worried.
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said New
Yorkers
were inclined to "see only the oppressive side of authority."
"What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people
can do
anything they want, be anything they can be," he said at the forum,
sponsored by The New York Post. "Freedom is about authority. Freedom
is
about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful
authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Asked later about his remarks, Mr. Giuliani said governmental
authorities
in
American society had fallen into disrepute in the last 30 years. He
said
anarchy would result if everyone were allowed to behave exactly as he
wanted
and cited Oliver Wendell Holmes's adage that freedom of expression
does
not
include shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.
Norman Siegel, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties
Union,
said he was "floored" by the Mayor's definition.
"Order is an element of freedom," Mr. Siegel said. "But to put the
emphasis
on order rather than on a just and fair society is inverting the
meaning
and
significance of freedom."
So if he's elected will he demand to be addressed as "Il Duce"?
Q: what's the difference between Rudy Giuliani and the Hindenburg?
A: One is a flaming Nazi gasbag, and the other is a zeppelin.
New Yorkers have known the truth about this nasty little fascist
monster for years. Had his term ended on 9/10/01, he'd be a footnote
in history as one of the most unpopular, divisive figures in the
history of NYC politics. Hopefully the rest of the country won't have
to learn the hard way.
I know. I have a lot of friends in the area and none of them have much
love for 'Rotten Rudy'.
He doesn't seem to be very popular - at least, not as
popular as he thinks he is - as far as the primaries
are concerned, so far. I'm waiting to see what happens
the day of 23 primaries.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
BAAWA Knight & Bible Thumper Thumper
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
When fascism comes to America, it will be
wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross -
Sinclair Lewis
---
"Faith may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to
skyscrapers..."
--
John #1782
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
12 Jan 2008 01:46:58 AM |
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In article <TMydnVjvacEjrhranZ2dnUVZ_tqtnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-294594.23483010012008@news.giganews.com...
In article <1gfco3dbd8et4hpm809omcj9t0gnujfise@4ax.com>,
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:28:52 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <csmdnYTngpfHkBjanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
This is the real Giuliani. Out of the mouth of a Republican fascist.
Some Free Speech On Mayor's Words
a.. Published: March 17, 1994
b.. The New York Times
Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani discussed his philosophy of what freedom
means
in
a democracy yesterday at a forum on urban crime, and his remarks left
a
civil libertarian puzzled and worried.
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said New
Yorkers
were inclined to "see only the oppressive side of authority."
"What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people
can do
anything they want, be anything they can be," he said at the forum,
sponsored by The New York Post. "Freedom is about authority. Freedom
is
about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful
authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Asked later about his remarks, Mr. Giuliani said governmental
authorities
in
American society had fallen into disrepute in the last 30 years. He
said
anarchy would result if everyone were allowed to behave exactly as he
wanted
and cited Oliver Wendell Holmes's adage that freedom of expression
does
not
include shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.
Norman Siegel, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties
Union,
said he was "floored" by the Mayor's definition.
"Order is an element of freedom," Mr. Siegel said. "But to put the
emphasis
on order rather than on a just and fair society is inverting the
meaning
and
significance of freedom."
So if he's elected will he demand to be addressed as "Il Duce"?
Q: what's the difference between Rudy Giuliani and the Hindenburg?
A: One is a flaming Nazi gasbag, and the other is a zeppelin.
New Yorkers have known the truth about this nasty little fascist
monster for years. Had his term ended on 9/10/01, he'd be a footnote
in history as one of the most unpopular, divisive figures in the
history of NYC politics. Hopefully the rest of the country won't have
to learn the hard way.
I know. I have a lot of friends in the area and none of them have much
love for 'Rotten Rudy'.
He doesn't seem to be very popular - at least, not as
popular as he thinks he is - as far as the primaries
are concerned, so far. I'm waiting to see what happens
the day of 23 primaries.
We'll see. Yesterday, I got my absentee ballot material for Feb. 5 in
the mail. I'm all primed and set to go.
Today I heard his campaign was running out of money. Many on his staff
are going without pay. He supposedly had $13 million dollars at the end
of last month. I wonder what happened? Another shopping trip?
--
John #1782
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
09 Jan 2008 01:02:28 PM |
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On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:07:33 -0500, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
This is the real Giuliani. Out of the mouth of a Republican fascist.
Some Free Speech On Mayor's Words
a.. Published: March 17, 1994
b.. The New York Times
Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani discussed his philosophy of what freedom means in
a democracy yesterday at a forum on urban crime, and his remarks left a
civil libertarian puzzled and worried.
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said New Yorkers
were inclined to "see only the oppressive side of authority."
"What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do
anything they want, be anything they can be," he said at the forum,
sponsored by The New York Post. "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is
about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful
authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Asked later about his remarks, Mr. Giuliani said governmental authorities in
American society had fallen into disrepute in the last 30 years. He said
anarchy would result if everyone were allowed to behave exactly as he wanted
and cited Oliver Wendell Holmes's adage that freedom of expression does not
include shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.
Norman Siegel, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union,
said he was "floored" by the Mayor's definition.
"Order is an element of freedom," Mr. Siegel said. "But to put the emphasis
on order rather than on a just and fair society is inverting the meaning and
significance of freedom."
Giuliani would be a great Presidential candidate in China. A large
plurality of New Yorkers despised him as neo-fascist authoritarian on
9/10/01, and he'd be no more than an unpleasant footnote in New York
City politics if it wasn't for the events of the next day, in which he
managed to parlay simply doing his job in the aftermath into totally
unwarranted national prominence. Never mind the fact that he's the
genius who placed the city's emergency response center, along with an
enormous fuel tank, in the only location in the city previously
attacked by terrorists. Trust me on this as a New Yorker: most of us,
even those who initially supported him, couldn't stand the jerk by the
time he left office. Don't get sucked in.
---
"Faith may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to skyscrapers..."
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
20 Jan 2008 02:19:11 PM |
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On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:07:33 -0500, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
This is the real Giuliani. Out of the mouth of a Republican fascist.
Some Free Speech On Mayor's Words
a.. Published: March 17, 1994
b.. The New York Times
Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani discussed his philosophy of what freedom means in
a democracy yesterday at a forum on urban crime, and his remarks left a
civil libertarian puzzled and worried.
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said New Yorkers
were inclined to "see only the oppressive side of authority."
"What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do
anything they want, be anything they can be," he said at the forum,
sponsored by The New York Post. "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is
about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful
authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Asked later about his remarks, Mr. Giuliani said governmental authorities in
American society had fallen into disrepute in the last 30 years. He said
anarchy would result if everyone were allowed to behave exactly as he wanted
and cited Oliver Wendell Holmes's adage that freedom of expression does not
include shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.
Norman Siegel, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union,
said he was "floored" by the Mayor's definition.
"Order is an element of freedom," Mr. Siegel said. "But to put the emphasis
on order rather than on a just and fair society is inverting the meaning and
significance of freedom."
San surprise. Seig Heil.
.
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| User: "William Wingstedt" |
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| Title: Re: Giuliani Sounding Like 1984 |
09 Jan 2008 03:40:40 PM |
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On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:07:33 -0500, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
This is the real Giuliani. Out of the mouth of a Republican fascist.
Some Free Speech On Mayor's Words
a.. Published: March 17, 1994
b.. The New York Times
Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani discussed his philosophy of what freedom means in
a democracy yesterday at a forum on urban crime, and his remarks left a
civil libertarian puzzled and worried.
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said New Yorkers
were inclined to "see only the oppressive side of authority."
"What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do
anything they want, be anything they can be," he said at the forum,
sponsored by The New York Post. "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is
about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful
authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
The most effective and economical government is personal government
and self control. Effectiveness and economy decrease as you move away
from self government, somewhat analogous to how the effects of gravity
are calculated. Personal responsibility is an aspect of self
government. Personal responsibility and self control probably fall
within Giuliani's definition of anarchy, because they don't require
his authoritarian government. His ideas of government fit my
definition of fascism. He is an enemy of freedom.
Asked later about his remarks, Mr. Giuliani said governmental authorities in
American society had fallen into disrepute in the last 30 years. He said
anarchy would result if everyone were allowed to behave exactly as he wanted
and cited Oliver Wendell Holmes's adage that freedom of expression does not
include shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.
American society was founded on the idea that governmental authority
had fallen into disrepute some 230 years ago. The idea that Giuliani
has the slightest idea about how everybody should behave is laughable
and that government authority "allows" people to behave in some way
other than how they really want to is unconstitutional, contrary to
the Declaration of Independence and just plain un-American. He needs
to go away.
Norman Siegel, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union,
said he was "floored" by the Mayor's definition.
"Order is an element of freedom," Mr. Siegel said. "But to put the emphasis
on order rather than on a just and fair society is inverting the meaning and
significance of freedom."
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