<lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in message
news:1109198905.550901.166220@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<snip to>

You tell me, what is the Bible good for? Perhaps then we can

if
indeed it is good for anything. The God as described in the
Bible is jealous, kills human beings in fits of rage and sometimes
shows remorse. Hardly a being I would choose to worship.

Read the whole thing. And then read all the books those guys in 400

didn't think were good enough to put in it. Then listen to those who

believe in it, and put all of it together.

Now me, I think the bible is good for a lot of things. It's good for

mythology, (and mythology doesn't always have to be FALSE, y'know)

to see what different perspectives are from different levels of

and different cultures, it's good for finding out what people who

to five thousand years ago found important; that we still find

And that's what it's good for if you DON'T believe in it's divine

Since you are one of those, it doesn't matter to you what it's good

those who do believe that it contains the word of God, does it?

snipage

the thing is, your logic is faulty. the whole point behind
theism is that deity is SUPPOSED to be the creator,
there is SUPPOSED to be an afterlife, and thus deity
has an entirely different, and very much larger,
perspective on this than we do.

Here we cut to the chase. Is whatever God wants to
do moral or is there
some other logic or principle that exists that he must
follow too. If any whim he has defines right and wring,
then human beings cannot hope to understand what right
and wrong are, but if God is good
because he follows principles we can observe and understand,
then we can define morality without him.

Ah. Now THAT'S a false dichotomy if I ever saw one! Either He is

impossible

to understand or he has to go by the same laws we do, and either

we can

do without him? Er....

You claim it is false dichotomy but you do not argue against it,
please point out the errors. BTW, this argument was first put
forth by Plato.

And that makes it gospel?

You do realize that most of what Plato wrote was him telling us what
Socrates said. Indeed, that's very like the bible, in a way....and

still a false dichotomy. Plato was not deity, nor did he claim to be

It's interesting that you are quoting him as if he were the prophet

;-)

Consider; there are many things that we understand now that we didn't
understand even thirty years ago. How the immune system works, for

We still vaccinated children against polio and small pox. There are

things that we don't understand now that we hope to understand in the
future; but the fact that we don't understand how things work does

us from using those things. We go with what we know, work on learning

so that when we do know more, we can do more. But we don't dismiss

of, say, tornados just because we don't know exactly how they form

they operate. Therefore, ignoring something, even deity, because we

understand him yet....not logical.

As to expecting one to operate by the same rules we do; good grief.
We don't even expect that of EACH OTHER. Consider; two men have very

implements. They both stick a knife into the heart of another person.

convicted for murder, the other--well, he's a cardiac surgeon. He

very well by greatful patients whose hearts he has cut into. The

is, the surgeon knows what he is doing.

God knows what he is doing. We don't. We may think we do, we may

believe we do, but we don't KNOW. If God is, then by definition, he

indeed know. As in, KNOW. That makes all the difference, as it does

surgeon and the twit on the street with a knife and an urge to stab
somebody.

So you can see where this is a false dichotomy; there are many other

available here, and only the two most extreme were mentioned.

snipage

Your argument is like saying a child raised puppies and after
creating several dozen dogs, decided he did not like them and so
he drowned them.

Not a bit. You are ignoring context; the child is ending life;
he and the dogs are both mortal. IT's more like, oh, a CEO who
looks at the guys in the mail room, decides that THIS one is not
a good fit there and tells him to come see him. Everybody else
there thinks that the guy was fired; how are they going to know
differently? But in reality the guy just got a
promotion.

I assume from your answer that you would want God to promote
you as soon as possible. You appear to imply that life is not
worth much.

We aren't talking about me. We are talking about deity. In
context. Try a different strawman here, eh?

Now you say God knew of the after life and created them, but

they

were sinners, would they not all go to eternal torture?

Context is all. There ARE theists who believe this; it's called

Calvinism.

It's not a belief I share. Nor is it a believe that every theist

shares by

any means.

This is not a problem of context, but my incorrect assumption of
your beliefs. It is impossible to know exactly what you believe

the Christian faith has so many flavors, my apologies.

You are quite right. Christianity comes in all flavors. For that

is usually a good idea to find out the flavor of the belief held by

opponent before you start attacking what you think theirs is. If you

you will always get it wrong somewhere, I guarantee it. ;-)

From your previous writing I assume it is
that God later offers mankind eternal paradise, but does this
make up for the earlier unspeakable horror that was done?

WHAT 'earlier unspeakable horror'? We all die.
Every one of us. Whether that is evolution making
way for a new generation or God ending a test
period--or both (or whatever one's personal belief
system dictates) we all die.
Most of the violent
human deaths are inflicted by humans, and how is
that God's fault?

My life is precious to me. You seem to imply that death
is no big deal. I think those how have seen the
after math of Hiroshima and 9-11 might disagree with
you here as I do. You are right however that we
do all die. I for one want to live as long as
my health holds out.

As do we all, except certain Muslim terrorists....

But death isn't as big a deal as all that. It's simply the final life
experience.