| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"P A Abeles" |
| Date: |
11 Jan 2004 08:40:02 AM |
| Object: |
God and contraception |
Where does God forbid contraception?
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| User: "MooJoo" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 06:19:35 PM |
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In article <6fdMb.6599$Wa.3661@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"P A Abeles" <nospampaabeles@bigpond.com> wrote:
Where does God forbid contraception?
Who's this "God" you speak of and why would it care if I use a rubber or
my girlfriend uses the pill?
--
There are no stupid questions,
but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
.
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| User: "Martin Thomas" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 10:16:14 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:40:02 GMT in alt.atheism
"P A Abeles" <nospampaabeles@bigpond.com> wrote:
Where does God forbid contraception?
Either there is no god - or else God made the scientists who made
contraception. So God certainly did not forbid contraception.
The leaders of the religions know that the easiest people to
recruit to their religion are young children. So contraception
must be banned to allow a plentiful supply of new recruits.
The don't care about the resulting misery from overpopulation.
-
Martin Thomas
Official "Teddy Bear" Atheist
mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 05:18:51 PM |
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"Martin Thomas" <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote in message
news:cct2005jecetnua48fs57phh8duhp3sqf3@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:40:02 GMT in alt.atheism
"P A Abeles" <nospampaabeles@bigpond.com> wrote:
Where does God forbid contraception?
Either there is no god - or else God made the scientists who made
contraception. So God certainly did not forbid contraception.
What makes you think it has to be either ?
Susan
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| User: "Martin Thomas" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 05:43:11 PM |
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:18:51 GMT in alt.atheism
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote:
"Martin Thomas" <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote in message
news:cct2005jecetnua48fs57phh8duhp3sqf3@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:40:02 GMT in alt.atheism
"P A Abeles" <nospampaabeles@bigpond.com> wrote:
Where does God forbid contraception?
Either there is no god - or else God made the scientists who made
contraception. So God certainly did not forbid contraception.
What makes you think it has to be either ?
Do you have a third possibility?
-
Martin Thomas
Official "Teddy Bear" Atheist
mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
12 Jan 2004 03:12:15 AM |
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"Martin Thomas" <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote in message
news:krn3001rbhcn4dm586qr3u1eki1lcipgdt@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:18:51 GMT in alt.atheism
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote:
"Martin Thomas" <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote in message
news:cct2005jecetnua48fs57phh8duhp3sqf3@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:40:02 GMT in alt.atheism
"P A Abeles" <nospampaabeles@bigpond.com> wrote:
Where does God forbid contraception?
Either there is no god - or else God made the scientists who made
contraception. So God certainly did not forbid contraception.
What makes you think it has to be either ?
Do you have a third possibility?
Just because something exists does not automatically mean that it's not
forbidden.
Poison exists, & in nature, not just created by man. Are we supposed to take
it?
Susan
-
Martin Thomas
Official "Teddy Bear" Atheist
mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net
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| User: "Martin Thomas" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
12 Jan 2004 06:43:03 AM |
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:12:15 GMT in alt.atheism
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote:
"Martin Thomas" <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote in message
news:krn3001rbhcn4dm586qr3u1eki1lcipgdt@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:18:51 GMT in alt.atheism
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote:
"Martin Thomas" <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote in message
news:cct2005jecetnua48fs57phh8duhp3sqf3@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:40:02 GMT in alt.atheism
"P A Abeles" <nospampaabeles@bigpond.com> wrote:
Where does God forbid contraception?
Either there is no god - or else God made the scientists who made
contraception. So God certainly did not forbid contraception.
What makes you think it has to be either ?
Do you have a third possibility?
Just because something exists does not automatically mean that it's not
forbidden.
Poison exists, & in nature, not just created by man. Are we supposed to take
it?
It is up to us, most people would choose not to take it.
-
Martin Thomas
Official "Teddy Bear" Atheist
mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
12 Jan 2004 09:03:27 AM |
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"Martin Thomas" <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote in message
news:5g5500deram162mhv9so2rds2s0h361q5o@4ax.com...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:12:15 GMT in alt.atheism
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote:
"Martin Thomas" <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote in message
news:krn3001rbhcn4dm586qr3u1eki1lcipgdt@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:18:51 GMT in alt.atheism
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote:
"Martin Thomas" <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote in message
news:cct2005jecetnua48fs57phh8duhp3sqf3@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:40:02 GMT in alt.atheism
"P A Abeles" <nospampaabeles@bigpond.com> wrote:
Where does God forbid contraception?
Either there is no god - or else God made the scientists who made
contraception. So God certainly did not forbid contraception.
What makes you think it has to be either ?
Do you have a third possibility?
Just because something exists does not automatically mean that it's not
forbidden.
Poison exists, & in nature, not just created by man. Are we supposed to
take
it?
It is up to us, most people would choose not to take it.
Exactly. Now go back & apply this to "it was created, so obviously it wasn't
forbidden."
You are conflating two separate issues.
In fact, Jews are certainly forbidden to take poison.
Susan
-
Martin Thomas
Official "Teddy Bear" Atheist
mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net
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| User: "Martin Thomas" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
12 Jan 2004 10:13:57 AM |
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:03:27 GMT in alt.atheism
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote:
"Martin Thomas" <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote in message
news:5g5500deram162mhv9so2rds2s0h361q5o@4ax.com...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:12:15 GMT in alt.atheism
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote:
"Martin Thomas" <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote in message
news:krn3001rbhcn4dm586qr3u1eki1lcipgdt@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:18:51 GMT in alt.atheism
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote:
"Martin Thomas" <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote in message
news:cct2005jecetnua48fs57phh8duhp3sqf3@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:40:02 GMT in alt.atheism
"P A Abeles" <nospampaabeles@bigpond.com> wrote:
Where does God forbid contraception?
Either there is no god - or else God made the scientists who made
contraception. So God certainly did not forbid contraception.
What makes you think it has to be either ?
Do you have a third possibility?
Just because something exists does not automatically mean that it's not
forbidden.
Poison exists, & in nature, not just created by man. Are we supposed to
take
it?
It is up to us, most people would choose not to take it.
Exactly. Now go back & apply this to "it was created, so obviously it wasn't
forbidden."
You are conflating two separate issues.
In fact, Jews are certainly forbidden to take poison.
We are going at cross purposes here - though this is giving me
some insight into how Judaism works.
For myself, I am not forbidden to take poison; it is just that if
I do take it then I will have to suffer the consequences.
-
Martin Thomas
Official "Teddy Bear" Atheist
mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net
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| User: "S +++++" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 02:57:19 PM |
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Martin Thomas <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> writes:
Where does God forbid contraception?
Either there is no god - or else God made the scientists who made
contraception. So God certainly did not forbid contraception.
The leaders of the religions know that the easiest people to
recruit to their religion are young children. So contraception
must be banned to allow a plentiful supply of new recruits.
Also a reason why is that the god-addled are keen to forbid
sex-education and advice on contraception for the young, who then grow
up together in a climate of fear, ignorance and superstition. Right
where the church wants them.
--
++++++ "To be taken orally" +++++
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 05:30:34 PM |
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"S +++++" <++++++@gaffe.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hXek+fGvibAAFwP4@gaffe.demon.co.uk...
Also a reason why is that the god-addled are keen to forbid
sex-education and advice on contraception for the young, who then grow
up together in a climate of fear, ignorance and superstition. Right
where the church wants them.
Are you talking about theists or Xians? You begin by seeming as tho' you
were talking about all of us, but go onto to describe fundie Xians.
Susan
--
++++++ "To be taken orally" +++++
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| User: "S Bibby" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 03:23:38 PM |
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Martin Thomas <mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> writes:
Where does God forbid contraception?
Either there is no god - or else God made the scientists who made
contraception. So God certainly did not forbid contraception.
The leaders of the religions know that the easiest people to
recruit to their religion are young children. So contraception
must be banned to allow a plentiful supply of new recruits.
Also a reason why is that the god-addled are keen to forbid
sex-education and advice on contraception for the young, who then grow
up together in a climate of fear, ignorance and superstition. Right
where the church wants them.
--
Stuart "To be taken orally" Bibby
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| User: "Binyamin Dissen" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 10:35:26 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:16:14 +0000 Martin Thomas
<mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote:
:>On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:40:02 GMT in alt.atheism
:>"P A Abeles" <nospampaabeles@bigpond.com> wrote:
:>>Where does God forbid contraception?
:>Either there is no god - or else God made the scientists who made
:>contraception. So God certainly did not forbid contraception.
Following that logic:
"Either there is no god - or else G-d made the people who made guns. So G-d
certainly did not forbid murder."
If you wish to argue that anything possible is permitted, make that argument.
Just be aware of the consequences of the argument.
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdissen@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
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| User: "Amelia M. Samples" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 11:01:39 AM |
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"Binyamin Dissen" <postingid@dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
news:diu200t1dk2nhs0p6qktgpmrrk0ssqopr7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:16:14 +0000 Martin Thomas
<mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote:
:>On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:40:02 GMT in alt.atheism
:>"P A Abeles" <nospampaabeles@bigpond.com> wrote:
:>>Where does God forbid contraception?
:>Either there is no god - or else God made the scientists who made
:>contraception. So God certainly did not forbid contraception.
Following that logic:
"Either there is no god - or else G-d made the people who made guns. So
G-d
certainly did not forbid murder."
If you wish to argue that anything possible is permitted, make that
argument.
Just be aware of the consequences of the argument.
No - you made a causality error. Assuming G-d (using your custom and yes I
know where it comes from) created the people who made guns, all that says is
that G-d did not forbid guns. G-d by necessity must remain silent on the
issue of how said guns are used, otherwise we have no free will and we
wouldn't be here having this pleasant conversation. Now, being an atheist, I
believe that god simply does not exist, therefore he/she/it/they by
definition could not have created scientists, contraception, guns or
anything else. Human nature says we don't like to feel small and alone, so
humans created religion. Short answer to the who created god question - we
(humans) did.
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdissen@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 05:21:26 PM |
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"Amelia M. Samples" <milla@georgebush.visi.com> wrote in message
news:TjfMb.11176$LW.8674@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
"Binyamin Dissen" <postingid@dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
news:diu200t1dk2nhs0p6qktgpmrrk0ssqopr7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:16:14 +0000 Martin Thomas
<mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net> wrote:
:>On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:40:02 GMT in alt.atheism
:>"P A Abeles" <nospampaabeles@bigpond.com> wrote:
:>>Where does God forbid contraception?
:>Either there is no god - or else God made the scientists who made
:>contraception. So God certainly did not forbid contraception.
Following that logic:
"Either there is no god - or else G-d made the people who made guns. So
G-d
certainly did not forbid murder."
If you wish to argue that anything possible is permitted, make that
argument.
Just be aware of the consequences of the argument.
No - you made a causality error. Assuming G-d (using your custom and yes I
know where it comes from) created the people who made guns, all that says
is
that G-d did not forbid guns. G-d by necessity must remain silent on the
issue of how said guns are used, otherwise we have no free will and we
wouldn't be here having this pleasant conversation.
No, that isn't true at all. In order to not have free will, it would have to
be that G-d *keeps us* from disobeying him.
So while you are correct about the flaw in analogy, it is you who made the
causality error.
Susan
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 07:41:54 PM |
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:21:26 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net>
posted to alt.atheism:
No, that isn't true at all. In order to not have free will, it would have to
be that G-d *keeps us* from disobeying him.
So while you are correct about the flaw in analogy, it is you who made the
causality error.
Your proof that we're free to disobey your god? (The fact that we
violate your bible is only proof if you also have proof that your
bible is the word of your god, and what's in your bible can't be used
as that proof.)
--
"religion did for *****, what Stonehenge did for rocks"
- The World Famous Tink
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
12 Jan 2004 03:16:12 AM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:fpu300hqp0dojspjqnc11gc92eq25m7r3e@Pern.rk...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:21:26 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net>
posted to alt.atheism:
No, that isn't true at all. In order to not have free will, it would have
to
be that G-d *keeps us* from disobeying him.
So while you are correct about the flaw in analogy, it is you who made
the
causality error.
Your proof that we're free to disobey your god? (The fact that we
violate your bible is only proof if you also have proof that your
bible is the word of your god, and what's in your bible can't be used
as that proof.)
I'm not going to argue as if trying to convince you of the existence of G-d;
that would be rude.
But you will have to forgive the fact that I am going to srgue from the
point that there is a G-d.
Would you permit me to say "If there is a G-d then....?" How about that?
If there is a G-d, what would be the point of having followers who were not
free to disobey Him?
There would be no genuineness (is that even a word?) in their devotion.
It's like all the silly tv-show/fantasy novel discussions on love spells:
they always manage, sooner or later, to get to the point where the one who
wants the spell is either told or discovers on his own that such things are
worthless. The last most interesting treatment I saw of this was the
love-bot episode of Buffy, the Vampire Slayer.
Susan
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
13 Jan 2004 08:52:43 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:16:12 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net>
posted in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:fpu300hqp0dojspjqnc11gc92eq25m7r3e@Pern.rk...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:21:26 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net>
posted to alt.atheism:
No, that isn't true at all. In order to not have free will, it would have to
be that G-d *keeps us* from disobeying him.
So while you are correct about the flaw in analogy, it is you who made the
causality error.
Your proof that we're free to disobey your god? (The fact that we
violate your bible is only proof if you also have proof that your
bible is the word of your god, and what's in your bible can't be used
as that proof.)
I'm not going to argue as if trying to convince you of the existence of G-d;
that would be rude.
But you will have to forgive the fact that I am going to srgue from the
point that there is a G-d.
Would you permit me to say "If there is a G-d then....?" How about that?
For the sake of this discussion, okay.
If there is a G-d, what would be the point of having followers who were not
free to disobey Him?
Who know? I'm not a god. Do gods want subjects who obey? I don't
know and you don't know.
There would be no genuineness (is that even a word?) in their devotion.
So? Do gods even want devotion by something further below them than
viruses are below us? I don't know and you don't know.
You can make up anything you like about your god, but that's all it is
- making it up. You simply can't know, Susan. You can't even know if
what's in your bible is true. Faith, yes, but you can't know.
--
"...I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand
why I dismiss yours."
- Stephen F. Roberts
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
14 Jan 2004 08:56:46 AM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:9ib900tigofe08b586vrrk19240ro55c1i@Pern.rk...
You can't even know if
what's in your bible is true. Faith, yes, but you can't know.
Have I ever said otherwise??
Susan
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
14 Jan 2004 08:19:26 PM |
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On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:56:46 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net>
posted in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:9ib900tigofe08b586vrrk19240ro55c1i@Pern.rk...
You can't even know if
what's in your bible is true. Faith, yes, but you can't know.
Have I ever said otherwise??
In the post I responded to? Yes.
--
"To assume the existence of an unperceivable being ... does not facilitate understanding
the orderliness we find in the perceivable world."
- Letter to an Iowa student who asked, What is God? July, 1953; Einstein Archive 59-085
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
.
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| User: "The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
12 Jan 2004 06:38:16 AM |
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:16:12 GMT, "Suzy the convert"
<flavia13@verizon.net> wrote:
(circumcised)
It's like all the silly tv-show/fantasy novel discussions on love spells:
they always manage, sooner or later, to get to the point where the one who
wants the spell is either told or discovers on his own that such things are
worthless. The last most interesting treatment I saw of this was the
love-bot episode of Buffy, the Vampire Slayer.
Suzy
Suzy watches Buffy the Vampire Slayer? What a fucking retard.
.
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| User: "Carrie Lyons" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
13 Jan 2004 06:21:54 AM |
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Too bad they had no effective contraception around when you were
conceived. Around 1870 wasn't it?
The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:16:12 GMT, "Suzy the convert"
<flavia13@verizon.net> wrote:
(circumcised)
It's like all the silly tv-show/fantasy novel discussions on love spells:
they always manage, sooner or later, to get to the point where the one who
wants the spell is either told or discovers on his own that such things are
worthless. The last most interesting treatment I saw of this was the
love-bot episode of Buffy, the Vampire Slayer.
Suzy
Suzy watches Buffy the Vampire Slayer? What a fucking retard.
.
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| User: "yechidah" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 11:11:54 AM |
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"Amelia M. Samples" <milla@georgebush.visi.com> wrote in message
news:TjfMb.11176$LW.8674@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Human nature says we don't like to feel small and alone, so
humans created religion.
What is this human nature you are referring to? Ego? That is only a stepping
stone to overcome, a beast to tame. Don't you know that our sole/soul
purpose here is to be servants to God? That everything which appears to be
contrary to this aim is to be overcome? This *overcoming* is called your
soul's Journey. Torah is the map towards getting to the next world. Kabbalah
is the index and keys.
YS
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/03
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 11:49:21 AM |
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"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:utfMb.3532$i4.1363@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
"Amelia M. Samples" <milla@georgebush.visi.com> wrote in message
news:TjfMb.11176$LW.8674@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Human nature says we don't like to feel small and alone, so
humans created religion.
What is this human nature you are referring to? Ego? That is only a
stepping stone to overcome, a beast to tame. Don't you know that our
sole/soul purpose here is to be servants to God? That everything which
appears to be contrary to this aim is to be overcome? This
*overcoming* is called your soul's Journey. Torah is the map towards
getting to the next world. Kabbalah is the index and keys.
YS
Wow. The omnipotent creator and ruler of the universe needs us puny
humans to be his servants. Does anyone besides me see the idiocy in this
concept?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "yechidah" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 02:18:46 PM |
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"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns946D82917BF65wodencharternet@216.168.3.44...
"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:utfMb.3532$i4.1363@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
"Amelia M. Samples" <milla@georgebush.visi.com> wrote in message
news:TjfMb.11176$LW.8674@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Human nature says we don't like to feel small and alone, so
humans created religion.
What is this human nature you are referring to? Ego? That is only a
stepping stone to overcome, a beast to tame. Don't you know that our
sole/soul purpose here is to be servants to God? That everything which
appears to be contrary to this aim is to be overcome? This
*overcoming* is called your soul's Journey. Torah is the map towards
getting to the next world. Kabbalah is the index and keys.
YS
Wow. The omnipotent creator and ruler of the universe needs us puny
humans to be his servants. Does anyone besides me see the idiocy in this
concept?
Do you not subscribe to the law of hierchy in nature? Why then would it not
be true to for human beings. That in our world of the spiritual, there too
is hierchy, law and order? There is One God, One infinite level of
consciousness, from which all life springs. Knowing this puts our place in
the world into perspective. In this comes humility, bowing down, become
awed. It must all come from our free-will. God sees that we do not listen
when He speaks to us softly, we don't keep the Laws, we break the covenants,
so He speaks a little louder. Then a little bit more and before you know it,
you have a wake-up call.
YS
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/03
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: God and contraception |
11 Jan 2004 06:56:06 PM |
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"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:GciMb.3976$i4.484@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns946D82917BF65wodencharternet@216.168.3.44...
"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:utfMb.3532$i4.1363@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
"Amelia M. Samples" <milla@georgebush.visi.com> wrote in message
news:TjfMb.11176$LW.8674@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Human nature says we don't like to feel small and alone, so
humans created religion.
What is this human nature you are referring to? Ego? That is only a
stepping stone to overcome, a beast to tame. Don't you know that
our sole/soul purpose here is to be servants to God? That
everything which appears to be contrary to this aim is to be
overcome? This *overcoming* is called your soul's Journey. Torah is
the map towards getting to the next world. Kabbalah is the index
and keys.
YS
Wow. The omnipotent creator and ruler of the universe needs us puny
humans to be his servants. Does anyone besides me see the idiocy in
this concept?
Do you not subscribe to the law of hierchy in nature?
What "law of hierarchy"?
Why then would
it not be true to for human beings. That in our world of the
spiritual, there too is hierchy, law and order?
What world of "spiritual"? Can you show me that anything you call
"spiritual" is somehow different from imaginary?
There is One God, One
infinite level of consciousness, from which all life springs.
How do you know this? Why should I think it is something other than a
fairy tale?
Knowing
this puts our place in the world into perspective. In this comes
humility, bowing down, become awed. It must all come from our
free-will. God sees that we do not listen when He speaks to us softly,
we don't keep the Laws, we break the covenants, so He speaks a little
louder. Then a little bit more and before you know it, you have a
wake-up call.
Sort of like those wonderful xian apologistslike Falwell & Robertson who
claimed that 9-11 was such a wake up call. If that's the best your god
can do, then it isn't much of a god is it?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "yechidah" |
|
| Title: Re: God and contraception |
12 Jan 2004 04:38:27 PM |
|
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"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns946DCB26142FBwodencharternet@216.168.3.44...
"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:GciMb.3976$i4.484@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns946D82917BF65wodencharternet@216.168.3.44...
"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:utfMb.3532$i4.1363@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
"Amelia M. Samples" <milla@georgebush.visi.com> wrote in message
news:TjfMb.11176$LW.8674@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Human nature says we don't like to feel small and alone, so
humans created religion.
What is this human nature you are referring to? Ego? That is only a
stepping stone to overcome, a beast to tame. Don't you know that
our sole/soul purpose here is to be servants to God? That
everything which appears to be contrary to this aim is to be
overcome? This *overcoming* is called your soul's Journey. Torah is
the map towards getting to the next world. Kabbalah is the index
and keys.
YS
Wow. The omnipotent creator and ruler of the universe needs us puny
humans to be his servants. Does anyone besides me see the idiocy in
this concept?
Do you not subscribe to the law of hierchy in nature?
What "law of hierarchy"?
Humanity over other species.
Why then would
it not be true to for human beings. That in our world of the
spiritual, there too is hierchy, law and order?
What world of "spiritual"? Can you show me that anything you call
"spiritual" is somehow different from imaginary?
The soul is the spiritual vessel. We know it exists because this is our
teaching. But there too has been research done on the soul and its powers.
Music seems to be one of the languages of the soul. We feel *uplifted* by
it. This means our soul has been acknowledged and it is happy. When we feel
alienated from the world and it's Creator our soul is in anguish. When we
get back on the right path, we learn how we can work with the soul, heal it
and transform it into a means of connecting to the Divine.
There is One God, One
infinite level of consciousness, from which all life springs.
How do you know this? Why should I think it is something other than a
fairy tale?
Trial and error. It's pretty much up to everyone to find this out
individually. No one can convince your mind of what your soul cannot feel.
Knowing
this puts our place in the world into perspective. In this comes
humility, bowing down, become awed. It must all come from our
free-will. God sees that we do not listen when He speaks to us softly,
we don't keep the Laws, we break the covenants, so He speaks a little
louder. Then a little bit more and before you know it, you have a
wake-up call.
Sort of like those wonderful xian apologistslike Falwell & Robertson who
claimed that 9-11 was such a wake up call.
It was a wake-up call for those who were in a mass-hypnotic media induced
slumber. Many have awoken, some are still refusing to hear. So the Creator
makes note of this too and determines how loud the next blast will be - if
needed at all.
If that's the best your god
can do, then it isn't much of a god is it?
You were brought into the world to transform yourself and the world. If you
haven't come to this recognition on your own, others are brought into your
midst to shake you up and make you pay attention. Then the physical ailments
begin and before you know it - you're experiencing every sorrow of the world
first hand, until you say - ENOUGH. It's at that point that a shift comes
into consciousness. It's no longer about you and your *stuff*, but it
becomes about the Creator, doing His will and loving altruistically (without
ulterior motive).
YS
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/03
.
|
|
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| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: God and contraception |
12 Jan 2004 10:20:37 PM |
|
|
"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:DlFMb.5707$i4.3233@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns946DCB26142FBwodencharternet@216.168.3.44...
"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:GciMb.3976$i4.484@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
Do you not subscribe to the law of hierchy in nature?
What "law of hierarchy"?
Humanity over other species.
"Humans over other species"? What is this absurd statement supposed to
mean?
Why then would
it not be true to for human beings. That in our world of the
spiritual, there too is hierchy, law and order?
What world of "spiritual"? Can you show me that anything you call
"spiritual" is somehow different from imaginary?
The soul is the spiritual vessel. We know it exists because this is
our teaching. But there too has been research done on the soul and its
powers. Music seems to be one of the languages of the soul. We feel
*uplifted* by it. This means our soul has been acknowledged and it is
happy. When we feel alienated from the world and it's Creator our soul
is in anguish. When we get back on the right path, we learn how we can
work with the soul, heal it and transform it into a means of
connecting to the Divine.
I see you couldn't answer my question and chose to provide some
meaningless *****. You still haven't shown anything that leads a
rational person to consider your "soul" or "spiritual vessel" ideas to be
anything but imaginary.
There is One God, One
infinite level of consciousness, from which all life springs.
How do you know this? Why should I think it is something other than
a fairy tale?
Trial and error. It's pretty much up to everyone to find this out
individually. No one can convince your mind of what your soul cannot
feel.
So, you're saying that you're still making the error of believing in some
fictional god thing?
Knowing
this puts our place in the world into perspective. In this comes
humility, bowing down, become awed. It must all come from our
free-will. God sees that we do not listen when He speaks to us
softly, we don't keep the Laws, we break the covenants, so He
speaks a little louder. Then a little bit more and before you know
it, you have a wake-up call.
Sort of like those wonderful xian apologistslike Falwell & Robertson
who claimed that 9-11 was such a wake up call.
It was a wake-up call for those who were in a mass-hypnotic media
induced slumber. Many have awoken, some are still refusing to hear. So
the Creator makes note of this too and determines how loud the next
blast will be - if needed at all.
What gives you such insight into the mind and plan of this creator-god
thingy?
If that's the best your god
can do, then it isn't much of a god is it?
You were brought into the world to transform yourself and the world.
If you haven't come to this recognition on your own, others are
brought into your midst to shake you up and make you pay attention.
Then the physical ailments begin and before you know it - you're
experiencing every sorrow of the world first hand, until you say -
ENOUGH. It's at that point that a shift comes into consciousness.
It's no longer about you and your *stuff*, but it becomes about the
Creator, doing His will and loving altruistically (without ulterior
motive).
What "creator"? All I've seen so far from you is meaningless rhetoric
and verbal abstractions which can't be distinquished from your
imagination.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "yechidah" |
|
| Title: Re: God and contraception |
13 Jan 2004 11:48:13 AM |
|
|
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns946EEDB67F96wodencharternet@216.168.3.44...
"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:DlFMb.5707$i4.3233@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns946DCB26142FBwodencharternet@216.168.3.44...
"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:GciMb.3976$i4.484@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
Do you not subscribe to the law of hierchy in nature?
What "law of hierarchy"?
Humanity over other species.
"Humans over other species"? What is this absurd statement supposed to
mean?
Humans are created in God's image, other species have not.
Why then would
it not be true to for human beings. That in our world of the
spiritual, there too is hierchy, law and order?
What world of "spiritual"? Can you show me that anything you call
"spiritual" is somehow different from imaginary?
The soul is the spiritual vessel. We know it exists because this is
our teaching. But there too has been research done on the soul and its
powers. Music seems to be one of the languages of the soul. We feel
*uplifted* by it. This means our soul has been acknowledged and it is
happy. When we feel alienated from the world and it's Creator our soul
is in anguish. When we get back on the right path, we learn how we can
work with the soul, heal it and transform it into a means of
connecting to the Divine.
I see you couldn't answer my question and chose to provide some
meaningless *****.
No it just means that your brain is wired shut. Perhaps your mouth should
follow suit.
You still haven't shown anything that leads a
rational person to consider your "soul" or "spiritual vessel" ideas to be
anything but imaginary.
Consider how one loses consciousness in great painful situations. Is this
not mercy? Consider how a mother instintinctively bonds with her child - is
this not wisdom? Consider love - is this not a miracle? To be lifted in our
hearts and souls and soar with the heavens in bliss - is this not a gift
from the Creator? You see black and white, unable to notice the full
spectrum of light and colors. But this of course is where you and I
separate.
YS
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/03
.
|
|
|
| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: God and contraception |
13 Jan 2004 12:36:29 PM |
|
|
"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:xbWMb.5842$q4.3381@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns946EEDB67F96wodencharternet@216.168.3.44...
"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:DlFMb.5707$i4.3233@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns946DCB26142FBwodencharternet@216.168.3.44...
"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:GciMb.3976$i4.484@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
Do you not subscribe to the law of hierchy in nature?
What "law of hierarchy"?
Humanity over other species.
"Humans over other species"? What is this absurd statement supposed
to mean?
Humans are created in God's image, other species have not.
Of course! And I'll bet you have lots of real world evidence to support
this fairy tale don't you?
Why then would
it not be true to for human beings. That in our world of the
spiritual, there too is hierchy, law and order?
What world of "spiritual"? Can you show me that anything you call
"spiritual" is somehow different from imaginary?
The soul is the spiritual vessel. We know it exists because this
is our teaching. But there too has been research done on the soul
and its powers. Music seems to be one of the languages of the soul.
We feel *uplifted* by it. This means our soul has been acknowledged
and it is happy. When we feel alienated from the world and it's
Creator our soul is in anguish. When we get back on the right path,
we learn how we can work with the soul, heal it and transform it
into a means of connecting to the Divine.
I see you couldn't answer my question and chose to provide some
meaningless *****.
No it just means that your brain is wired shut. Perhaps your mouth
should follow suit.
Bwahahahahaha. You know, that's really funny coming from someone who's
whole life is based on believing ancient myths.
You still haven't shown anything that leads a
rational person to consider your "soul" or "spiritual vessel" ideas
to be anything but imaginary.
Consider how one loses consciousness in great painful situations. Is
this not mercy? Consider how a mother instintinctively bonds with her
child - is this not wisdom? Consider love - is this not a miracle? To
be lifted in our hearts and souls and soar with the heavens in bliss -
is this not a gift from the Creator? You see black and white, unable
to notice the full spectrum of light and colors. But this of course is
where you and I separate.
I think that this "separation" is called rational thinking versus wishful
thinking.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "yechidah" |
|
| Title: Re: God and contraception |
13 Jan 2004 12:51:30 PM |
|
|
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns946F8AA5E9DC4wodencharternet@216.168.3.44...
"yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:xbWMb.5842$q4.3381@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
Do you not subscribe to the law of hierchy in nature?
What "law of hierarchy"?
Humanity over other species.
"Humans over other species"? What is this absurd statement supposed
to mean?
Humans are created in God's image, other species have not.
Of course! And I'll bet you have lots of real world evidence to support
this fairy tale don't you?
Evidence for God's spirit, breath, spark within man? Compassion, mercy,
goodness, love, beneficience, righteousness, reasoning capabilities,
intellectual capacity, speech, and morality.
Of course you give a very good example by what you put forth in your posts
that the sub-human, animalistic depravities are still very much alive and
*well* within athiestic humanity.
YS
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/03
.
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