| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Greywolf" |
| Date: |
11 Aug 2005 03:35:17 AM |
| Object: |
God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the religious right.
So in the meantime, I figured I'd post yet another message regarding
free-will.
First: Did "God" have free-will? If so, why did he choose to create evil?
Did he have any choice in the matter?
Second: Assuming God intended man to have the "gift" of free-will all along,
why the, "tree of knowledge" in "paradise" bit? Are we to assume that
partaking of the forbidden fruit was not "evil" in itself but mere
disobedience? What did God have to gain by placing it there? Did "God" place
it there because he knew, in advance, that his two favorite creatures would
disobey him and thus allow him to unleash "sin" upon the world? And what is
the point in punishing mindless disobedience with "original sin," and the
heinous passing of this vile contagion on to generations of people who did
no wrong? And how is it that an infinitely loving, merciful, and
compassionate "God" could mete out such harsh punishment?
Third: Assuming all the holy babble stuff is true, it means that God
provided A&E with free-will because he didn't want Ken and Barbie traipsing
all over his earthly paradise like a mindless "robot" or "zombie." Okay. But
at some point in the future, we are told, Satan and all his henchmen will be
eradicated. Evil will exist no more. Does this then mean we'll have a heaven
full of mindless robots or zombies traipsing all over God's "creation"?
Now please, I beg you, not the same old tired crap by way of response. If
don't have anything stimulating to say, don't say it.
(Unless you're trashing trolls, then say anything you damn please. But, then
again, that *would* be stimulating, wouldn't it?)
Oh, how about a couple of you right-wing evangelical "intellectuals" getting
in on this for a change?
Greywolf
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
11 Aug 2005 06:33:47 AM |
|
|
In episode <11fm3e8i0srl570@corp.supernews.com>, Greywolf burst into the
room and exclaimed:
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the religious right.
That's like waiting for Santa to answer your letter...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
11 Aug 2005 07:26:36 AM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Q7adndXJzuwGqmbfRVn-1A@megapath.net...
In episode <11fm3e8i0srl570@corp.supernews.com>, Greywolf burst into the
room and exclaimed:
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the religious
right.
That's like waiting for Santa to answer your letter...
Wait a sec! Just what are you implying?!?
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
11 Aug 2005 07:57:29 AM |
|
|
In episode <3m0ui7F14k3vsU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Q7adndXJzuwGqmbfRVn-1A@megapath.net...
In episode <11fm3e8i0srl570@corp.supernews.com>, Greywolf burst into the
room and exclaimed:
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the religious
right.
That's like waiting for Santa to answer your letter...
Wait a sec! Just what are you implying?!?
Not a thing, Virginia...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
11 Aug 2005 08:15:46 AM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:jtednbLNdp-k1mbfRVn-jg@megapath.net...
In episode <3m0ui7F14k3vsU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Q7adndXJzuwGqmbfRVn-1A@megapath.net...
In episode <11fm3e8i0srl570@corp.supernews.com>, Greywolf burst into
the
room and exclaimed:
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the religious
right.
That's like waiting for Santa to answer your letter...
Wait a sec! Just what are you implying?!?
Not a thing, Virginia...
WHAT did you call me?!?!? ;)
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
|
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
11 Aug 2005 10:11:28 AM |
|
|
In episode <3m11eeF14bq7iU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:jtednbLNdp-k1mbfRVn-jg@megapath.net...
In episode <3m0ui7F14k3vsU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Q7adndXJzuwGqmbfRVn-1A@megapath.net...
In episode <11fm3e8i0srl570@corp.supernews.com>, Greywolf burst into
the
room and exclaimed:
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the religious
right.
That's like waiting for Santa to answer your letter...
Wait a sec! Just what are you implying?!?
Not a thing, Virginia...
WHAT did you call me?!?!? ;)
I did *not call you What!
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
11 Aug 2005 10:47:56 AM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:j9GdnaZrJdE992bfRVn-ow@megapath.net...
In episode <3m11eeF14bq7iU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:jtednbLNdp-k1mbfRVn-jg@megapath.net...
In episode <3m0ui7F14k3vsU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Q7adndXJzuwGqmbfRVn-1A@megapath.net...
In episode <11fm3e8i0srl570@corp.supernews.com>, Greywolf burst into
the
room and exclaimed:
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the
religious
right.
That's like waiting for Santa to answer your letter...
Wait a sec! Just what are you implying?!?
Not a thing, Virginia...
WHAT did you call me?!?!? ;)
I did *not call you What!
Scummy bears! ;)
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
|
|
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
11 Aug 2005 03:48:41 PM |
|
|
In episode <3m1aboF14rfboU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:j9GdnaZrJdE992bfRVn-ow@megapath.net...
In episode <3m11eeF14bq7iU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:jtednbLNdp-k1mbfRVn-jg@megapath.net...
In episode <3m0ui7F14k3vsU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into
the room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Q7adndXJzuwGqmbfRVn-1A@megapath.net...
In episode <11fm3e8i0srl570@corp.supernews.com>, Greywolf burst
into
the
room and exclaimed:
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the
religious
right.
That's like waiting for Santa to answer your letter...
Wait a sec! Just what are you implying?!?
Not a thing, Virginia...
WHAT did you call me?!?!? ;)
I did *not call you What!
Scummy bears! ;)
BRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!!!
Or should I put it the way the pit did this morning?
hsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss....
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
12 Aug 2005 09:37:09 AM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:uaadnZ2dnZ17KnqcnZ2dnTckZt-dnZ2dRVn-zJ2dnZ0@megapath.net...
In episode <3m1aboF14rfboU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:j9GdnaZrJdE992bfRVn-ow@megapath.net...
In episode <3m11eeF14bq7iU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:jtednbLNdp-k1mbfRVn-jg@megapath.net...
In episode <3m0ui7F14k3vsU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into
the room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Q7adndXJzuwGqmbfRVn-1A@megapath.net...
In episode <11fm3e8i0srl570@corp.supernews.com>, Greywolf burst
into
the
room and exclaimed:
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the
religious
right.
That's like waiting for Santa to answer your letter...
Wait a sec! Just what are you implying?!?
Not a thing, Virginia...
WHAT did you call me?!?!? ;)
I did *not call you What!
Scummy bears! ;)
BRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!!!
Ah, how this reminds me of coming home after having some horrendous
hamburgers at my mom's new place. Lighting a match in the family room could
have been fatal ;)
Or should I put it the way the pit did this morning?
hsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss....
ROTFL!!!
My elder feline doesn't make a sound, but DAMN! WHOOO!!! I think she saves
them up until she's well settled in my lap ;)
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
|
|
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
12 Aug 2005 12:07:24 PM |
|
|
In episode <3m3qj2F14dcmrU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:uaadnZ2dnZ17KnqcnZ2dnTckZt-dnZ2dRVn-zJ2dnZ0@megapath.net...
In episode <3m1aboF14rfboU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:j9GdnaZrJdE992bfRVn-ow@megapath.net...
In episode <3m11eeF14bq7iU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into
the room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:jtednbLNdp-k1mbfRVn-jg@megapath.net...
In episode <3m0ui7F14k3vsU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst
into the room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Q7adndXJzuwGqmbfRVn-1A@megapath.net...
In episode <11fm3e8i0srl570@corp.supernews.com>, Greywolf burst
into
the
room and exclaimed:
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the
religious
right.
That's like waiting for Santa to answer your letter...
Wait a sec! Just what are you implying?!?
Not a thing, Virginia...
WHAT did you call me?!?!? ;)
I did *not call you What!
Scummy bears! ;)
BRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!!!
Ah, how this reminds me of coming home after having some horrendous
hamburgers at my mom's new place. Lighting a match in the family room
could have been fatal ;)
Or should I put it the way the pit did this morning?
hsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss....
ROTFL!!!
My elder feline doesn't make a sound, but DAMN! WHOOO!!! I think she
saves them up until she's well settled in my lap ;)
This was a very slight sound with just a *bit of an "eeeee" whine thrown
in for good measure. Of course, he was laying on the couch with the, ahem,
business end aimed right *at me.
I was very upset with him once I regained consciousness...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
12 Aug 2005 12:18:08 PM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:p9OdnVJs7MPRSmHfRVn-vQ@megapath.net...
In episode <3m3qj2F14dcmrU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:uaadnZ2dnZ17KnqcnZ2dnTckZt-dnZ2dRVn-zJ2dnZ0@megapath.net...
In episode <3m1aboF14rfboU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
snip
Scummy bears! ;)
BRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!!!
Ah, how this reminds me of coming home after having some horrendous
hamburgers at my mom's new place. Lighting a match in the family room
could have been fatal ;)
Or should I put it the way the pit did this morning?
hsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss....
ROTFL!!!
My elder feline doesn't make a sound, but DAMN! WHOOO!!! I think she
saves them up until she's well settled in my lap ;)
This was a very slight sound with just a *bit of an "eeeee" whine thrown
in for good measure.
ROTFLMAO! Oh my goodness <wipes tears from eyes> Don't DO that! Christ! :)
Of course, he was laying on the couch with the, ahem,
business end aimed right *at me.
Isn't that always the way?
I was very upset with him once I regained consciousness...
I'm sure your eyebrows will grow back in no time :D
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
|
|
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
13 Aug 2005 08:34:41 AM |
|
|
In episode <3m440sF15bn2mU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:p9OdnVJs7MPRSmHfRVn-vQ@megapath.net...
In episode <3m3qj2F14dcmrU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:uaadnZ2dnZ17KnqcnZ2dnTckZt-dnZ2dRVn-zJ2dnZ0@megapath.net...
In episode <3m1aboF14rfboU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into
the room and exclaimed:
snip
Scummy bears! ;)
BRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!!!
Ah, how this reminds me of coming home after having some horrendous
hamburgers at my mom's new place. Lighting a match in the family room
could have been fatal ;)
Or should I put it the way the pit did this morning?
hsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss....
ROTFL!!!
My elder feline doesn't make a sound, but DAMN! WHOOO!!! I think she
saves them up until she's well settled in my lap ;)
This was a very slight sound with just a *bit of an "eeeee" whine thrown
in for good measure.
ROTFLMAO! Oh my goodness <wipes tears from eyes> Don't DO that! Christ!
:)
Of course, he was laying on the couch with the, ahem,
business end aimed right *at me.
Isn't that always the way?
I was very upset with him once I regained consciousness...
I'm sure your eyebrows will grow back in no time :D
'Fraid not, they're a total loss...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
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|
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
14 Aug 2005 09:47:24 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 10:37:09 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:uaadnZ2dnZ17KnqcnZ2dnTckZt-dnZ2dRVn-zJ2dnZ0@megapath.net...
In episode <3m1aboF14rfboU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:j9GdnaZrJdE992bfRVn-ow@megapath.net...
In episode <3m11eeF14bq7iU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into the
room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:jtednbLNdp-k1mbfRVn-jg@megapath.net...
In episode <3m0ui7F14k3vsU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff burst into
the room and exclaimed:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Q7adndXJzuwGqmbfRVn-1A@megapath.net...
In episode <11fm3e8i0srl570@corp.supernews.com>, Greywolf burst
into
the
room and exclaimed:
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the
religious
right.
That's like waiting for Santa to answer your letter...
Wait a sec! Just what are you implying?!?
Not a thing, Virginia...
WHAT did you call me?!?!? ;)
I did *not call you What!
Scummy bears! ;)
BRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!!!
Ah, how this reminds me of coming home after having some horrendous
hamburgers at my mom's new place. Lighting a match in the family room could
have been fatal ;)
Or should I put it the way the pit did this morning?
hsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss....
ROTFL!!!
My elder feline doesn't make a sound, but DAMN! WHOOO!!! I think she saves
them up until she's well settled in my lap ;)
Well marinated 'aromatherapy'.... :)
Just think of how much money you save on caffiene reduction!
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
11 Aug 2005 07:58:58 AM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Q7adndXJzuwGqmbfRVn-1A@megapath.net...
In episode <11fm3e8i0srl570@corp.supernews.com>, Greywolf burst into the
room and exclaimed:
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the religious
right.
That's like waiting for Santa to answer your letter...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
I don't want to sound too paranoid here, but our country is slowly being
taken over by those peanut-brains. What are we to do about it? I feel if we
can just show enough people just how bankrupt their "theology" is, we might
be able to take a little air out of their sails. And by this, I mean
differentiating them from the "normal" Christians - whose theology is
primarily personal, but who throw in a little bit of "church" for good
measure. This would include the vast majority of theologians, philosophers
and scientists whose God is a cerebral one, and not a "fixed" entity.
*Their* Christianity has been co-opted by the dishonest, unethical,
financially and politically motivated douche-bags of the far right. It makes
me sick to my stomach. Here I am, an atheist, coming to the aid (or trying
to) of "normal" Christians with who I am in complete disagreement with. Yet
I feel I have to. Their God is harmless. He's like a Santa Claus. The God of
the religious right, on the other hand, is an evil one, in my view. He hates
and hates and dislikes and hates some more. Well, unless they can prove "He"
exists, I, for one, am going to keep hammering away at em.' Their brand of
Christianity is vile ... and I mean vile! One thing that *may* happen, is
that all the trolls reading my posts will go to their particular "mentor"
and question him or her about what I've said. They may even say, "Why don't
you go into alt.atheism and show that clown what a fool he really is?
Wouldn't I just love that?
Greywolf
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: God and "Free-Will" (Again) |
14 Aug 2005 11:47:24 AM |
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On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 07:58:58 -0500, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com>
wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Q7adndXJzuwGqmbfRVn-1A@megapath.net...
In episode <11fm3e8i0srl570@corp.supernews.com>, Greywolf burst into the
room and exclaimed:
I'm still waiting to hear from the "heavy hitters" of the religious
right.
That's like waiting for Santa to answer your letter...
I don't want to sound too paranoid here, but our country is slowly being
taken over by those peanut-brains. What are we to do about it? I feel if we
can just show enough people just how bankrupt their "theology" is, we might
be able to take a little air out of their sails.
No, since reason doesn't enter their universe. Their egos wouldn't
allow it anyway.
[]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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