| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Ghent" |
| Date: |
20 Mar 2007 07:22:25 AM |
| Object: |
God at fault for your problems? |
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
.
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| User: "GoDrex" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 08:54:04 AM |
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"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
.
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| User: "Ips-Switch" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 10:51:25 AM |
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"GoDrex" <godrex35@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ScednVox6PLiemLYnZ2dnUVZ_vKunZ2d@ptd.net...
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
But old Jabbers of 105+ nyms is shrewd enough to get many people to read the
Watchtower drivel he posts here and reply to it. :-) He then avoids
answering your tough questions or plagiarizes even more WTS literature as
replies. This is a new tact he's taking to get people to read the WT
propaganda crap.
.
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| User: "stumper" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 11:25:37 AM |
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GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.
Yes, even you would not feel the need to hate so much.
Try it, please.
--
~Stumper
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 11:55:04 AM |
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"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 08:24:52 PM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
He's adding crossposts to other newsgroups where his four obsessions are
posting...in other words, he's stalking, while bitching at us for stalking
him. (Is anyone surprised? I know I'm not.)
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2006-07 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Rochester 3, Houston 1 (March 18)
NEXT GAME: Tuesday, March 20 at Manitoba, 7:35
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
21 Mar 2007 08:39:33 AM |
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"The Chief Instigator" <patrick@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:szk3b3z2xsr.fsf@eris.io.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
He's adding crossposts to other newsgroups where his four obsessions are
posting...in other words, he's stalking, while bitching at us for stalking
him. (Is anyone surprised? I know I'm not.)
No, I'm not either. I'm always constantly removing the crossposting. See,
THAT'S why we keep getting a bad name - from assholes like stumpy who
crosspost all over the place and people think it's OUR fault :P
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
|
| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
21 Mar 2007 09:56:49 AM |
|
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"The Chief Instigator" <patrick@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:szk3b3z2xsr.fsf@eris.io.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
He's adding crossposts to other newsgroups where his four obsessions are
posting...in other words, he's stalking, while bitching at us for stalking
him. (Is anyone surprised? I know I'm not.)
No, I'm not either. I'm always constantly removing the crossposting. See,
THAT'S why we keep getting a bad name - from assholes like stumpy who
crosspost all over the place and people think it's OUR fault :P
newvessel.com should be aliased to oldbullshit.com - truth in advertising.
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2006-07 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Houston 3, Manitoba 1 (March 20)
NEXT GAME: Wednesday, March 21 at Manitoba, 7:35
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
21 Mar 2007 10:57:07 AM |
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"The Chief Instigator" <patrick@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:szk1wji1w7i.fsf@eris.io.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"The Chief Instigator" <patrick@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:szk3b3z2xsr.fsf@eris.io.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is
still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues
a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of
his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not
the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
He's adding crossposts to other newsgroups where his four obsessions are
posting...in other words, he's stalking, while bitching at us for
stalking
him. (Is anyone surprised? I know I'm not.)
No, I'm not either. I'm always constantly removing the crossposting. See,
THAT'S why we keep getting a bad name - from assholes like stumpy who
crosspost all over the place and people think it's OUR fault :P
newvessel.com should be aliased to oldbullshit.com - truth in advertising.
True 'dat <sigh> >:P
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
21 Mar 2007 06:32:53 AM |
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On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:24:52 -0500, The Chief Instigator wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
He's adding crossposts to other newsgroups where his four obsessions are
posting...in other words, he's stalking, while bitching at us for stalking
him. (Is anyone surprised? I know I'm not.)
He's a man on a mission!
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
.
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| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
|
| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
21 Mar 2007 07:21:16 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> writes:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:24:52 -0500, The Chief Instigator wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
He's adding crossposts to other newsgroups where his four obsessions are
posting...in other words, he's stalking, while bitching at us for stalking
him. (Is anyone surprised? I know I'm not.)
He's a man on a mission!
....to put the entire universe in an infinite loop.
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2006-07 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Houston 3, Manitoba 1 (March 20)
NEXT GAME: Wednesday, March 21 at Manitoba, 7:35
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 12:50:27 PM |
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On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:55:04 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote:
"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
No, he's going to sit here and "plonk" every last regular.
(That'll show us!)
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
.
|
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 03:00:34 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.20.17.50.26.349863@com.mkbilbo...
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:55:04 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote:
"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
No, he's going to sit here and "plonk" every last regular.
(That'll show us!)
Kewl!
I can hardly contain myself ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 06:24:39 PM |
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On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:00:34 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.20.17.50.26.349863@com.mkbilbo...
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:55:04 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote:
"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
No, he's going to sit here and "plonk" every last regular.
(That'll show us!)
Kewl!
I can hardly contain myself ;)
I know. I see you made The List now. Welcome to the very elite "I made
Seonchung wet his diapers" club!
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
.
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| User: "stumper" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 02:06:12 PM |
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Robibnikoff wrote:
"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
Sorry, you didn't make the list.
--
~Stumper
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 03:00:56 PM |
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"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:jpSdnQO_e_kHrZ3bnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@ptd.net...
Robibnikoff wrote:
"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
Sorry, you didn't make the list.
*****!
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "tirebiter" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 04:28:53 PM |
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On Mar 20, 3:00 pm, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
"stumper" <stum...@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:jpSdnQO_e_kHrZ3bnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@ptd.net...
Robibnikoff wrote:
"stumper" <stum...@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
Sorry, you didn't make the list.
*****!
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
Yeah, it ain't easy getting on stumpy's list. I had to spank him
until was actually crying. It was weird watching him beg for it at
the same time.
---
a.a. #2273
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 02:07:25 PM |
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On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:06:12 -0400, stumper wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"stumper" <stumper@newvessel.com> wrote in message
news:obidnT1ZQZJql53bnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@ptd.net...
GoDrex wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
it's your own fault that you're an idiot
Most of the atheist hate messages in this forum
are generated by the following four posters.
Mark K. Bilbo
tirebiter
Michael Gray
The Chief Instigator
If you simply filter them out,
you will see a much more peaceful place.\
Why don't YOU get the ***** out and make it an even more peaceful place,
hmmm?
Sorry, you didn't make the list.
I'm sure she'll cry herself to sleep.
<snork>
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 08:22:59 AM |
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"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
Typical religious dodge. Give god credit for all good occurrences and
absolve him from all
bad occurrences.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Floods,
Wars, Earth Quakes, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known diseases that affect and
punish mankind indiscriminately. Why does he permit millions of both young
and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions
of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent children"
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age regardless of their religious affiliation?
God supposedly created the world like it is to punish man for Adam and Eve's
'original sin'. Why does he also punish supposedly innocent animals with
thousands of diseases, birth defects, starvation and to be eaten alive by
other animals?
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, Wolves, poisonous snakes,
stinging and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring
benevolent god create animals (including man) that need to painfully kill
and eat other animals to survive?
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed for life.
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed the lives of 200,000 men, women and
children of all religious persuasions. Over 100,000 of these were totally
INNOCENT children!
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally innocent children.
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.
These indiscriminately afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of
all religious persuasions.
Meanwhile MAN, not god, has developed defenses and cures for hundreds of
serious diseases. Man has learned to create shelter, heat and cooling,
purify water, world wide electronic communications, power and transportation
systems including flying through the air.
Man has created a wonderful medical and drug system and improved housing and
food production. The result of MAN'S inventiveness has
DOUBLED the average life span. None of this was created by any gods.
Perhaps your loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean and
torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think
he will let us enjoy peace and eternal happiness in his Heaven? And why does
he keep all this a secret by preventing communication with our dead parents,
siblings and friends? (Or this god?)
There are thousands of religious and god beliefs but NO OJECTIVE VERIFIABLE
EVIDENCE for the actual existence of ANY of these gods. ALL god beliefs are
based on the unsubstantiated 'opinions' of errant men.
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer". The
objective evidence is if there is a god creator, he has NO concern about the
welfare of the creatures on Earth.
The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!
I challenge god believers to supply ANY objective verifiable evidence that
their god actually exists except in their over active imaginations.
.
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| User: "Kathy" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 10:43:40 AM |
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"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:LeRLh.2827$8s.1453@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Typical religious dodge. Give god credit for all good occurrences and
absolve him from all
bad occurrences.
<brevity snips>
Don't expect a sensible reply from Ghent (aka Jabriol) regarding your
excellent post. Jehovah's Witnesses have one-track minds and can't think
outside the Watchtower Society box.
The best they can do when faced with something like this is babble some
inanities and BLAME A&E.......
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| User: "Carlos Ivo" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 09:55:17 AM |
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"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:LeRLh.2827$8s.1453@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
Typical religious dodge. Give god credit for all good occurrences and
absolve him from all
bad occurrences.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Floods,
Wars, Earth Quakes, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known diseases that affect and
punish mankind indiscriminately. Why does he permit millions of both young
and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish
millions of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent
children" to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully
developed brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born
idiots and others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth
and others pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to
deteriorate into a miserable and devastating old age regardless of their
religious affiliation?
God supposedly created the world like it is to punish man for Adam and
Eve's 'original sin'. Why does he also punish supposedly innocent animals
with thousands of diseases, birth defects, starvation and to be eaten
alive by other animals?
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, Wolves, poisonous snakes,
stinging and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring
benevolent god create animals (including man) that need to painfully kill
and eat other animals to survive?
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed for life.
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed the lives of 200,000 men, women and
children of all religious persuasions. Over 100,000 of these were totally
INNOCENT children!
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally innocent children.
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.
These indiscriminately afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of
all religious persuasions.
Meanwhile MAN, not god, has developed defenses and cures for hundreds of
serious diseases. Man has learned to create shelter, heat and cooling,
purify water, world wide electronic communications, power and
transportation systems including flying through the air.
Man has created a wonderful medical and drug system and improved housing
and food production. The result of MAN'S inventiveness has
DOUBLED the average life span. None of this was created by any gods.
Perhaps your loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean
and torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you
think he will let us enjoy peace and eternal happiness in his Heaven? And
why does he keep all this a secret by preventing communication with our
dead parents, siblings and friends? (Or this god?)
There are thousands of religious and god beliefs but NO OJECTIVE
VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE for the actual existence of ANY of these gods. ALL god
beliefs are based on the unsubstantiated 'opinions' of errant men.
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer". The
objective evidence is if there is a god creator, he has NO concern about
the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!
I challenge god believers to supply ANY objective verifiable evidence that
their god actually exists except in their over active imaginations.
Very well put.
I am sure we all can "ear" many believers using the worned
out stock excuse: "god does his things in misterious ways",
just to get them through another good night sleep.
.
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| User: "=?windows-1252?Q?D=E4rFl=E4ken?=" |
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| Title: God Responsible for Natural disasters? |
21 Mar 2007 06:32:47 AM |
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Bill M wrote:
"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
Typical religious dodge. Give god credit for all good occurrences and
absolve him from all
bad occurrences.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Floods,
Wars, Earth Quakes
The Bible identifies Jehovah God as the Grand Creator of all things,
including the natural forces of this earth. (Genesis 1:1; Nehemiah 9:6;
Hebrews 3:4; Revelation 4:11) This does not mean that he causes every
movement of wind or every rain shower. Rather, he has set in motion
certain laws that govern the earth and its environment. For example, at
Ecclesiastes 1:5-7, we read about three of the fundamental operations
that make life on earth possible—the daily rising and setting of the
sun, the unchanging pattern of winds, and the water cycle. Whether
mankind is aware of them or not, for thousands of years these natural
systems, and others like them, involving the climate, geology, and
ecology of the earth have operated. In fact, the writer of Ecclesiastes
was calling attention to the great contrast between the unchanging and
endless ways of creation and the transitory and temporary nature of
human life.
In this regard, note what the book Natural Disasters—Acts of God or Acts
of Man? has to say: “There is no evidence that the climatological
mechanisms associated with droughts, floods and cyclones are changing.
And no geologist is claiming that the earth movements associated with
earthquakes, volcanoes and tsunami (earthquake waves) are becoming more
violent.” Similarly, the book Earthshock observes: “The rocks of every
continent contain a record of innumerable major and minor geological
events, every one of which would be a catastrophic disaster to mankind
if they occurred today—and it is scientifically certain that such events
will occur again and again in the future.” In other words, the earth and
its dynamic forces have more or less remained the same throughout the
ages. Hence, whether or not some statistics indicate an increase of some
forms of geologic or other activity, the earth has not become
uncontrollably violent in recent times.
What, then, accounts for the increase in the frequency and
destructiveness of natural disasters that we read about? If the forces
of nature are not to blame, the finger of guilt seems to point to the
human element. And, indeed, authorities have recognized that human
activities have made our environment both more prone to natural
disasters and more vulnerable to them. In the developing nations, a
growing need for food forces farmers to overcultivate what land they
have or to reclaim land by clearing away vital forest covering. This
leads to serious soil erosion. Expanding population also hastens the
growth of slums and shantytowns haphazardly built in unsafe areas. Even
in the more developed nations, people, like the millions living along
the San Andreas Fault in California, have exposed themselves to danger
in spite of clear warnings. In such circumstances, when an unusual turn
of events—a storm, a flood, or an earthquake—occurs, can the disastrous
result really be called “natural”?
A typical example is the drought in the African Sahel. We normally think
of drought as the lack of rain or water, leading to famine, starvation,
and death. But is the massive famine and starvation in that area due
simply to lack of water? Says the book Nature on the Rampage: “Evidence
gathered by scientific and relief agencies indicates that today’s famine
persists not so much from prolonged drought as from prolonged abuses of
land and water resources. . . . The continuing desertification of the
Sahel is largely a man-caused phenomenon.” A South African newspaper,
The Natal Witness, observes: “Famine is not about lack of food; it is
about lack of access to food. In other words, it is about poverty.”
The same can be said of much of the destruction resulting from other
catastrophes. Studies have shown that the poorer nations suffer
disproportionately higher death rates from natural disasters than do the
richer nations of the world. For example, from 1960 to 1981, according
to one study, Japan had 43 earthquakes and other disasters and lost
2,700 lives, averaging 63 deaths per disaster. In the same period, Peru
had 31 disasters with 91,000 deaths, or 2,900 per disaster. Why the
difference? Natural forces may have provided the triggers, but it is
human activity—social, economic, political—that must bear the
responsibility for the large difference in the loss of life and
destruction of property that resulted.
.
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| User: "Shad~Roe" |
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| Title: Re: God Responsible for Natural disasters? |
21 Mar 2007 10:04:23 AM |
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"DärFläken" impersonated by the homicidal reprobate Jabbers at
<slashmythroat@bag.org> spewed nonsence in message
news:zJ8Mh.11678$e47.662@trnddc05...
< Illegally plagiarized Watchtower material snipped >
.
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| User: "=?windows-1252?Q?D=E4rFl=E4ken?=" |
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| Title: Re: God Responsible for Natural disasters? |
21 Mar 2007 10:09:49 AM |
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Shad~Roe wrote:
"DärFläken" impersonated by the homicidal reprobate Jabbers at
<slashmythroat@bag.org> spewed nonsence in message
news:zJ8Mh.11678$e47.662@trnddc05...
< Illegally plagiarized Watchtower material snipped >
Assume much don't ya?
.
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| User: "Kathy" |
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| Title: Re: God Responsible for Natural disasters? |
21 Mar 2007 11:29:36 AM |
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"DärFläken" <slashmythroat@bag.org> is the reprobate jabriol, wrote in
message news:1VbMh.12001$e47.336@trnddc05...
Shad~Roe wrote:
"DärFläken" impersonated by the homicidal reprobate Jabbers at
<slashmythroat@bag.org> spewed nonsence in message
news:zJ8Mh.11678$e47.662@trnddc05...
< Illegally plagiarized Watchtower material snipped >
Assume much don't ya?
We have the same CDs. Only criminal types illegally plagiarize the works of
others.
.
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| User: "=?windows-1252?Q?D=E4rFl=E4ken?=" |
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| Title: Re: God Responsible for Natural disasters? |
21 Mar 2007 11:57:58 AM |
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Kathy wrote:
"DärFläken" <slashmythroat@bag.org> is the reprobate jabriol, wrote in
message news:1VbMh.12001$e47.336@trnddc05...
Shad~Roe wrote:
"DärFläken" impersonated by the homicidal reprobate Jabbers at
<slashmythroat@bag.org> spewed nonsence in message
news:zJ8Mh.11678$e47.662@trnddc05...
< Illegally plagiarized Watchtower material snipped >
Assume much don't ya?
We have the same CDs. Only criminal types illegally plagiarize the
works of others.
Assume much don't ya?
.
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| User: "Shad~Roe" |
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| Title: Re: God Responsible for Natural disasters? |
22 Mar 2007 10:52:26 AM |
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"DärFläken" <slashmythroat@bag.org> wrote in message
news:qudMh.12278$e47.894@trnddc05...
Kathy wrote:
"DärFläken" <slashmythroat@bag.org> is the reprobate jabriol, wrote in
message news:1VbMh.12001$e47.336@trnddc05...
Shad~Roe wrote:
"DärFläken" impersonated by the homicidal reprobate Jabbers at
<slashmythroat@bag.org> spewed nonsence in message
news:zJ8Mh.11678$e47.662@trnddc05...
< Illegally plagiarized Watchtower material snipped >
Assume much don't ya?
We have the same CDs. Only criminal types illegally plagiarize the works
of others.
Assume much don't ya?
Some of us have the same CDs Antonio, so we known you're plagiarizing.
.
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| User: "Loco Mo Shin" |
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| Title: Re: God Responsible for Natural disasters? |
21 Mar 2007 08:37:34 PM |
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Why do you keep impersonating the woman you suggest someone should slash the
throat of Antonio Santana? Are you a closet transsexual? Does it give you
some kind of thrill?
"DärFläken" <slashmythroat@bag.org> wrote in message
news:qudMh.12278$e47.894@trnddc05...
Kathy wrote:
"DärFläken" <slashmythroat@bag.org> is the reprobate jabriol, wrote in
message news:1VbMh.12001$e47.336@trnddc05...
Shad~Roe wrote:
"DärFläken" impersonated by the homicidal reprobate Jabbers at
<slashmythroat@bag.org> spewed nonsence in message
news:zJ8Mh.11678$e47.662@trnddc05...
< Illegally plagiarized Watchtower material snipped >
Assume much don't ya?
We have the same CDs. Only criminal types illegally plagiarize the works
of others.
Assume much don't ya?
.
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| User: "Shad~Roe" |
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| Title: Re: God Responsible for Natural disasters? |
22 Mar 2007 10:51:11 AM |
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"DärFläken" <slashmythroat@bag.org> wrote in message
news:1VbMh.12001$e47.336@trnddc05...
Shad~Roe wrote:
"DärFläken" impersonated by the homicidal reprobate Jabbers at
<slashmythroat@bag.org> spewed nonsence in message
news:zJ8Mh.11678$e47.662@trnddc05...
< Illegally plagiarized Watchtower material snipped >
Assume much don't ya?
Some of us have the same CDs Antonio-jabbers.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: God Responsible for Natural disasters? |
22 Mar 2007 02:44:25 PM |
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On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:32:47 GMT, DärFläken <slashmythroat@bag.org> wrote:
The Bible identifies Jehovah God
Jehovah is what the Jews call almighty God. Allah is what the Muslims call
almighty God. Almighty God is what the Christians call almighty God.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: God Responsible for Natural disasters? |
22 Mar 2007 10:20:23 PM |
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In sci.environment, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net>
wrote
on Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:44:25 -0500
<s2n5035oltq27k1khsolf3c4mbpo9basc5@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:32:47 GMT, DärFläken <slashmythroat@bag.org> wrote:
The Bible identifies Jehovah God
Jehovah is what the Jews call almighty God. Allah is what the Muslims call
almighty God. Almighty God is what the Christians call almighty God.
Ridiculous is what I call the almighty God. Believe what one likes, but
I am not buying.
Followups.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
--
#191,
Linux. An OS which actually, unlike certain other offerings, works.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
20 Mar 2007 10:47:17 AM |
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"Ghent" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174393345.771084.248240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still
living at home with his parents. When the son becomes rebellious and
decides to leave home, his father does not stop him. The son pursues a
bad way of life and gets into trouble. Is the father the cause of his
son's problems? No. (Luke 15:11-13) Similarly, God has not stopped
humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course, but he is not the
cause of the problems that have resulted. Surely, then, it would be
unfair to blame God for all the troubles of mankind
What 'perfect' creature created a supernaturally super-evil entity that he
created to 'consciously' unleash on mankind?
What 'perfect' being didn't have to do that?
After deciding who that supernatural 'bad-boy' is, who would *you* point the
finger at for being the root-cause of 'all the troubles of mankind'?
Greywolf
.
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: God at fault for your problems? |
30 Mar 2007 04:45:29 PM |
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.....My discussion of this topic from an earlier post.
(Name removed) writes: "I know God is punishing my family and I
don't know why? I am so angry at God."
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
V writes:
Ego based humans always look for an enemy to blame things on. It is
humans nature to be deluded. Going back to the earliest humans, man
has always looked for an 'enemy to blame' for lack of rain, too much
rain, pestilence, disease and all the rest of his 'supposed' ills.
Sometimes there is someone to blame for certain problems, which is
usually US. Other times it is just how things are and no one is to
blame. When you stop looking for an enemy to blame your problems on
you have made a big breakthrough with finding acceptance and peace.
"Man is the measure of all things" ~ Protagoras And it is always good
to remember that all problems are created in the mind...man's mind. As
well that all of man's problems are 'individual ones' and are not the
problems of anything other than 'individual' man's.
For instance, when a forest fire occurs from natural means and burns a
man's home or kills him it may be 'bad' for him. But nature has bigger
goals in mind than pleasing the self centered wishes of puny man. The
forest will be here long after that man is ground into dust. The
forest fire serves other purposes of regeneration within natures plans
and not man's demands. When it floods, nature is just reclaiming what
is hers. But man decided he 'owns nature' and does not wish to give it
up...greed, attachment and delusion. Again, nature has bigger plans
than mans does when it floods and replenishes nutrients and keeps the
balance in check with its work. It is good to remember that nature
does not bow to man and in the end all men will bow to nature. Now, I
am not diminishing the pain and suffering that humans go through from
nature. I am only shedding some light on the true nature of our
existence and how we fit into it.
But what else can you expect from an ego based, delusional human that
thinks the world revolves around them? One that thinks even nature and
God must serve them, each of them as an individual, above everyone and
everything else? This is why Buddhism stresses the idea of no self, a
concept that helps cut through these delusions. It is an important
concept in itself, one that is too long to go into here, so study it
up on your own if you wish to lose the delusion and think clearer. But
Buddhist are not out of the water by any means. Much delusion in that
tradition as well. Instead of God to blame, many Buddhists dump it on
karma, dependent arising, etc. I see many a Buddhist with no peace.
they have to second guess their actions all the time. There is little
authenticity in their life, it is all fear based. Take away the fear
of pain of karma or hell and you have a different person? A truly
virtuous life remains the same irrespective of such fears and is not
based on them
Man has always looked for an enemy to blame his woes on. Each religion
contains perfection's as well as imperfections. It is up to the
practitioner or end user to use the tools in the right way. Many a
spiritual practitioner only follows the rules out of fear of pain,
hell or karma. Take away the pain and you have different person. Their
spiritual practice is not an authentic one, it is fear based, not
truth and peace based. This is no difference from the thief that does
not steal because the police are looking than from the acknowledged
thief. Is this police motivated individual 'really' honest...when we
take away the police and his 'honesty' evaporates...where was its
authenticity? A truly virtuous life remains the same irrespective of
such fears and is not based on them. I discuss these concepts in two
earlier posts "Authentic Nature + Right Actions = Peace" and
"Circumstance Do Not Make The Man - They Reveal Him To Himself."
The problem is not the wisdom that is defective. The problem lies with
religious practitioners who are defective in their practice of this
wisdom. The wisdom works - we don't work the wisdom. In Buddhist
practice they distinguish the three unwholesome roots as the roots
that cause suffering within man. They are: DELUSION, GREED and HATE.
Out of these three, delusion is the foundational root, for without
seeing delusions for what they are, you cannot distinguish the other
two unwholesome roots of greed and hate. But this is only restating
the eightfold path of right actions, right thoughts, right view, right
intentions, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and
right concentration. Within the sickness of s delusional mind many
spiritual practitioners get stuck in the place of trying to be God.
They think they know better than God and think they even rule nature
and know better than nature. As such, they recite a long list of
impossible demands that must be answered in full or their ego gets
hurt. Deliver the goods God ... or I will not worship you.
In the 12 and 12 of Alcoholics Anonymous it tells us we mistakenly
think God is Santa Claus and must come through with our demands, just
as we did as greedy children making up a long, impossible list for
Santa to fill. Can you imagine if everyone's prayers were answered
according to our self centered and conflicting demands? Everyone would
be billionaires, some would sprout wings and fly or grow gills and
live underwater and no one would grow old. Death...no one would ever
die...except ones "enemies" that the misguided might prayer for to
die. This is not how the world and spiritual laws work. In the bible
it reminds us that God's way is not man's way, and we can all be very
grateful for that, as we can see what has happened when demigods take
power on earth.
Many women say they can't understand men, just as many men say they
can't understand women. Well, to further distill this we can say that
God's way / Higher Power's Way / Nature's Way is not man's way as well
as man's way is not woman's way. Every creature has it's way and when
you can come to peace with this you will have an easier time of it. To
start on your peace journey look for insight into the other creatures
suffering and problems. This technique comes from my Buddhist
practice. This is easier to do with men or women than with God. But it
can still be done non the same with your higher power, as I mentioned
above with the impossibility of satisfying all the demands of a
selfish and conflicting world.
The 12 and 12 of AA also reminds us that believing in God or a Higher
Power requires "reliance and not defiance." Once we have this reliance
and lose the defiance we can develop "faith that works under all
conditions" and we come to realize that "our whole trouble had been a
misuse of willpower. We tried to bombard our problems with it instead
of attempting to bring it into agreement with God's / Higher Power's /
Nature's intention for us." There never is a good time for most of us
to die, yet we all come under natural law and must die. so making
egocentric demands on God to bypass natural law to be immortal for us
or our loved ones is not realistic. My earlier post called "The
Definition of a Miracle is the Suspension of Natural Law" discussed
this issue.
Change is internal
It seems that many of us get stuck with looking for hope of change
someplace else other than within us. All change is ultimately internal
in nature, but we have hopes that someone else will do it for us,
rather than we doing it ourselves. Many religious practitioners feel
that any good change in their lives will come from the outside -- as a
gift from God / gods without much effort from ones own self to
change...all they have to do is to pray 'hard' enough - again
delusional thinking. Mindfulness of the present moment is another tool
of Buddhism I use to counter the constant tendency to look towards the
future for my happiness that seems so elusive in the present moment.
Isn't it much easier to fantasize about something else than stay in
the hear and now? I try and catch myself when I practice this escapism
and work to bring my thoughts back to the present. Whenever the
fantasy starts I check to see what I am escaping from? Why do I fixate
on something else instead of where I'm at? There is nothing wrong with
asking humbly in prayer or meditation, but there is something wrong
with delusional prayer...especially when you think you are the God and
know better than the God or Nature. Whenever I pray I always end it
with AA's Step 11 - "Praying only for knowledge of Higher Power's will
and the power to carry it out." I take it out of my hands and turn it
over to a Higher Power.
Now, some people talk of enlightenment or miracles happening, but even
these areas of great change still must be ultimately rooted inside the
person, as no one can beat them over the head with them and force the
change upon the individual. One thing to be mindful of is that once we
do change life will still not be perfect. Perfection is again ego
based as it is the nature of humans to not be perfect. As the old
Buddhist saying goes: Before enlightenment you chop wood and carry
water ~ After enlightenment you chop wood and carry water. So, develop
all the positive changes you can in your life, but be sure to look at
such changes in proportion and not as some magic bullet to nirvana.
True happiness and serenity is composed of many qualities and not just
one. The first step in finding peace with these subjects is to cut
through the delusion. I discuss this in my earlier post "Academic
Smarts Are Not The Smart As Peace Smarts."
Whether you believe in God or not, delusion will undermine either path
you take as is shown I the quote I include above from (Name removed).
Developing a good vipassana practice of seeing things clearly in terms
of impermanence, suffering and non-self is very important Seeing
things for what they are helps prevent further uprising of new
passions from ignorance. Once the new flow of delusion has been
lifted, you start the process of 'awakening.' You awaken to a whole
new life. Many of us get blinded with labels and personal prejudices.
Whenever we take it upon ourselves to beat down, we are headed in a
direction of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well as
others peace. Instead of looking for an enemy - I look for a friend.
As such, I practice from many religious and spiritual traditions
without problems or prejudices and readily look for such gifts
irrespective of what label they come under - on the contrary I am most
grateful wherever I find them.
One time I received a letter from an atheist stating that all religion
is delusional. Well, he is right as well as wrong. As I sated above,
each religion contains perfection's as well as imperfections. If
religions were totally delusional they would offer no truth and if
they were totally non delusional, they would offer no falsehoods...so
they are a mix. It is up to the practitioner or 'end user' to use the
tools in the right way. As far as proving God? No one can prove God
and no one can disprove God, it is up to the individual to believe as
they please. When I asked this atheist about his higher power he
scoffed at me, telling me no thing is his higher power other than
himself. I'm afraid even the atheists are little deluded when they
claim such things...even though they like to think of themselves free
of such delusions. I can tell you if the choice comes down to picking
an atheist as a higher power or nature...nature will always win.
Nature rules man and man does not rule nature. But in the end, all we
have to do is to please ourselves. If you are your own higher power
and happy with the status quo, then you do not have to please me, you
only have to please yourself. And if you are unhappy, then look for
another way other than the current way (your way) that has not been
serving you. Put peace first as your guide. There are many tools for
peace within the worlds spiritual paths, no one said these paths are
perfect, in fact, it was once said that walking the spiritual path is
akin to walking on a razors edge. But if we bother to be honest, non
prejudicial and to look, we can find tools that can help us be at
peace whether atheist, agnostic or believer.
A quote on finding peace from Thich Nhat Hanh
"There is no way to peace, peace is the way. This means that we can
realize peace right here in the present moment with our look, our
smile, our words and our actions. Peace work in not a means, each step
we take should be peace. Every step we take should be joy. Every step
we take should be happiness. Are you massaging Mother Earth every time
your foot touches her? Are you planting seeds of joy and peace?
Enlightenment, peace and joy will not be granted by someone else. The
well is within us and if we dig deeply in the present moment the water
will spring forth. If we are determined, we can do it. We don't need
the future. We can smile, breath fully and relax Everything we want is
here in the present moment. Peace is every step. Shall we continue our
journey?"
Take Care,
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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