| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill" |
| Date: |
26 Nov 2005 10:22:25 AM |
| Object: |
GOD CREATED THIS??? |
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in it. He
is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his image.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in eternal
happiness.
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why did he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be selfish,
greedy and mean?
He supposedly gave man free will which permits man to do as man wishes. Then
why did he create hunger pains to force man to eat and drink? And why did he
create breathing panic to force man to breathe? And a powerful sex drive to
force man to procreate? (Frequently in excess of mans ability to feed and
care for his creations!)
Then why create greed and selfishness which encourages man to steel, lie,
subjugate and even kill other men?
This is supposedly to keep man in line and force him to follow his wishes
and commands. This is characteristic of a dictator and slave master not the
characteristics of an all loving and caring god.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent children in
this horrible way?
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent children"
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age?
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging
and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring benevolent
god create animals (including man) that need to painfully kill and eat other
animals to survive?
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed
for life.
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed 270,000 lives; men, women and innocent
children of all religious persuasions. 100,000 of these were totally
innocent children!
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally innocent children.
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.
These afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of all religious
persuasions.
Meanwhile MAN, not god, has developed defenses and cures for hundreds of
serious diseases. Man has learned to create shelter, heat and cooling,
purify water, world wide electronic communications, power and transportation
systems including flying through the air.
Perhaps your loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean and
torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think
he will let us enjoy peace and happiness eternally in his Heaven after
death? And why does he keep all this a secret by preventing communication
with our dead parents, siblings and friends?
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer". The
objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has NO concern
about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
The objective evidence is that no god created man but quite the opposite;
that man created gods!
.
|
|
| User: "Carl Rooker" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
27 Nov 2005 11:38:32 AM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in it.
He
is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his image.
True, and what we believe.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in eternal
happiness.
Not true, and a misrepresentaion of what we believe.
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why did he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be selfish,
greedy and mean?
Since the second statement is untrue, then the proposition in this statement
is untrue.
He created us to do good, but mankind chose to do evil.
He supposedly gave man free will which permits man to do as man wishes.
Then
why did he create hunger pains to force man to eat and drink? And why did
he
create breathing panic to force man to breathe? And a powerful sex drive
to
force man to procreate? (Frequently in excess of mans ability to feed and
care for his creations!)
Then why create greed and selfishness which encourages man to steel, lie,
subjugate and even kill other men?
Again, a misrepresentation. He did not create man to be selfish and greedy,
He does not encourage us to steal, lie, and subjugate and kill others. This
is mankinds way, not His.
This is supposedly to keep man in line and force him to follow his wishes
and commands. This is characteristic of a dictator and slave master not
the
characteristics of an all loving and caring god.
Again, because you misrepresent the situation you come to wrong and
illogical conclusions.
He is not forcing anyone to do anything. He gave us the choice to follow
Him and do good, or to not follow Him and do the evil you admit we do.
Your characterization of Him as a dictator, or a slave master therefore has
no logical basis.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body
malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or
die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent children in
this horrible way?
He did not create these things. They are the result of mankind following
the Master of Chaos.
He is not punishing anyone in this way (at this point). It is the logical
conclusion of mankind following Satan's path, instead of God's path.
You keep insisting on objective evidence of God (despite your very
subjective arguments against Him). Well, there is one piece that you prove
very well, and that is this;
You never come here, and make claims against the gods, Jupiter, Oden, Zeus,
and the host of other gods. You only come here to make claims against the
Christian God. Why?
Because these other gods have had no effect on you what so ever. However,
Jesus has had such a powerful effect on you that you go way out of your way
to attack Him. You spend endless time and energy in this pursuit because He
has had such an effect on you. Unfortunately you use your time and energy
lying about Him.
He has had such an effect on you that you can not even give a logical
argument.
God Bless
Carl
.
|
|
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| User: "Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
27 Nov 2005 12:26:44 PM |
|
|
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1133113118.892360@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in it.
He
is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his image.
True, and what we believe.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in eternal
happiness.
Not true, and a misrepresentaion of what we believe.
What do you believe and why???
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why did he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be selfish,
greedy and mean?
Since the second statement is untrue, then the proposition in this
statement
is untrue.
Why don't you just admit you can't answer the question?
He created us to do good, but mankind chose to do evil.
Why did your god create us to do evil?
He supposedly gave man free will which permits man to do as man wishes.
Then
why did he create hunger pains to force man to eat and drink? And why did
he
create breathing panic to force man to breathe? And a powerful sex drive
to
force man to procreate? (Frequently in excess of mans ability to feed and
care for his creations!)
Then why create greed and selfishness which encourages man to steel, lie,
subjugate and even kill other men?
Again, a misrepresentation. He did not create man to be selfish and
greedy,
He does not encourage us to steal, lie, and subjugate and kill others.
This
is mankinds way, not His.
He supposedly created the Universe and everything in it. He supposedly
created man in his image.
Why did he create such wayward creatures???
This is supposedly to keep man in line and force him to follow his wishes
and commands. This is characteristic of a dictator and slave master not
the
characteristics of an all loving and caring god.
Again, because you misrepresent the situation you come to wrong and
illogical conclusions.
He is not forcing anyone to do anything. He gave us the choice to follow
Him and do good, or to not follow Him and do the evil you admit we do.
But he supposedly created us. Why would he create people that are so
malevolent?
Why didn't he just create people that are inherently honest and caring
humans?
Your characterization of Him as a dictator, or a slave master therefore
has
no logical basis.
In your not very logical "opinion".
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body
malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or
die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent children
in
this horrible way?
He did not create these things. They are the result of mankind following
the Master of Chaos.
Is this another god?
He is not punishing anyone in this way (at this point). It is the logical
conclusion of mankind following Satan's path, instead of God's path.
Why did god create Satan? Where is there ANY objective verifiable evidence
that there is a Satan?
You keep insisting on objective evidence of God (despite your very
subjective arguments against Him). Well, there is one piece that you
prove
very well, and that is this;
You never come here, and make claims against the gods, Jupiter, Oden,
Zeus,
and the host of other gods. You only come here to make claims against the
Christian God. Why?
Obviouslly because all you nut Christians believe that these other gods are
fakes and want everyone to
submit to the demands of "your" god.
Because these other gods have had no effect on you what so ever. However,
Jesus has had such a powerful effect on you that you go way out of your
way
to attack Him. You spend endless time and energy in this pursuit because
He
has had such an effect on you. Unfortunately you use your time and energy
lying about Him.
In your not very logical "opinion".
He has had such an effect on you that you can not even give a logical
argument.
Read my post again.
God Bless
Carl
.
|
|
|
| User: "Carl Rooker" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
28 Nov 2005 09:26:05 AM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:rRmif.32467$Y82.5402@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1133113118.892360@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in
it.
He
is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his image.
True, and what we believe.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in eternal
happiness.
Not true, and a misrepresentaion of what we believe.
What do you believe and why???
That man is now separated from God, and can only be reconciled by His Work.
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why did
he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be
all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be selfish,
greedy and mean?
Since the second statement is untrue, then the proposition in this
statement
is untrue.
Why don't you just admit you can't answer the question?
Can't answer a question that has a flawed basis in logic. You misrepresent,
and to answer would be to agree to your false premis.
I did correct the false statement, but you persist with the
misrepresentation.
He created us to do good, but mankind chose to do evil.
Why did your god create us to do evil?
Again, you misrepresent. He did not create us to do evil. It is your lies
that make your logic flawed.
He supposedly gave man free will which permits man to do as man wishes.
Then
why did he create hunger pains to force man to eat and drink? And why
did
he
create breathing panic to force man to breathe? And a powerful sex
drive
to
force man to procreate? (Frequently in excess of mans ability to feed
and
care for his creations!)
Then why create greed and selfishness which encourages man to steel,
lie,
subjugate and even kill other men?
Again, a misrepresentation. He did not create man to be selfish and
greedy,
He does not encourage us to steal, lie, and subjugate and kill others.
This
is mankinds way, not His.
He supposedly created the Universe and everything in it. He supposedly
created man in his image.
Why did he create such wayward creatures???
He did not create us wayward. Again, you misrepresent. We (as a race)
chose to be wayward.
This is supposedly to keep man in line and force him to follow his
wishes
and commands. This is characteristic of a dictator and slave master not
the
characteristics of an all loving and caring god.
Again, because you misrepresent the situation you come to wrong and
illogical conclusions.
He is not forcing anyone to do anything. He gave us the choice to
follow
Him and do good, or to not follow Him and do the evil you admit we do.
But he supposedly created us. Why would he create people that are so
malevolent?
Quit the stupid misreprensentation. Mankind chose to be malevolent to each
other. We did not have to, but we do. Your misrpresentations are ample
evidence of this.
Why didn't he just create people that are inherently honest and caring
humans?
Your characterization of Him as a dictator, or a slave master therefore
has
no logical basis.
In your not very logical "opinion".
You have no idea of logic, nor do you care for it, or you would not present
your case with all of the misrepresentations.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions,
Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body
malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or
die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent children
in
this horrible way?
He did not create these things. They are the result of mankind
following
the Master of Chaos.
Is this another god?
No, he aint a god, but he would like some to believe he is.
He is not punishing anyone in this way (at this point). It is the
logical
conclusion of mankind following Satan's path, instead of God's path.
Why did god create Satan? Where is there ANY objective verifiable evidence
that there is a Satan?
You keep insisting on objective evidence of God (despite your very
subjective arguments against Him). Well, there is one piece that you
prove
very well, and that is this;
You never come here, and make claims against the gods, Jupiter, Oden,
Zeus,
and the host of other gods. You only come here to make claims against
the
Christian God. Why?
Obviouslly because all you nut Christians believe that these other gods
are
fakes and want everyone to
submit to the demands of "your" god.
That is just like saying that we are wrong to believe that money that
private citizens print up is fake, and we want everyone to submit to the
government notes.
If it is fake, it is fake.
Because these other gods have had no effect on you what so ever.
However,
Jesus has had such a powerful effect on you that you go way out of your
way
to attack Him. You spend endless time and energy in this pursuit
because
He
has had such an effect on you. Unfortunately you use your time and
energy
lying about Him.
In your not very logical "opinion".
He has had such an effect on you that you can not even give a logical
argument.
Read my post again.
Your post is full of lies and misrepresentations of what Christians believe.
As such it is only a mindless attack on something you have no understanding
of.
God Bless
Carl
.
|
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| User: "ManMadeGod" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
27 Nov 2005 08:01:50 PM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:rRmif.32467$Y82.5402@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1133113118.892360@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in it.
He
is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his image.
True, and what we believe.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in eternal
happiness.
Not true, and a misrepresentaion of what we believe.
What do you believe and why???
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why did
he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be
all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be selfish,
greedy and mean?
Since the second statement is untrue, then the proposition in this
statement
is untrue.
Why don't you just admit you can't answer the question?
He created us to do good, but mankind chose to do evil.
Why did your god create us to do evil?
He supposedly gave man free will which permits man to do as man wishes.
Then
why did he create hunger pains to force man to eat and drink? And why
did
he
create breathing panic to force man to breathe? And a powerful sex drive
to
force man to procreate? (Frequently in excess of mans ability to feed
and
care for his creations!)
Then why create greed and selfishness which encourages man to steel,
lie,
subjugate and even kill other men?
Again, a misrepresentation. He did not create man to be selfish and
greedy,
He does not encourage us to steal, lie, and subjugate and kill others.
This
is mankinds way, not His.
He supposedly created the Universe and everything in it. He supposedly
created man in his image.
Why did he create such wayward creatures???
This is supposedly to keep man in line and force him to follow his
wishes
and commands. This is characteristic of a dictator and slave master not
the
characteristics of an all loving and caring god.
Again, because you misrepresent the situation you come to wrong and
illogical conclusions.
He is not forcing anyone to do anything. He gave us the choice to follow
Him and do good, or to not follow Him and do the evil you admit we do.
But he supposedly created us. Why would he create people that are so
malevolent?
Why didn't he just create people that are inherently honest and caring
humans?
Your characterization of Him as a dictator, or a slave master therefore
has
no logical basis.
In your not very logical "opinion".
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body
malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or
die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent children
in
this horrible way?
He did not create these things. They are the result of mankind following
the Master of Chaos.
Is this another god?
He is not punishing anyone in this way (at this point). It is the
logical
conclusion of mankind following Satan's path, instead of God's path.
Why did god create Satan? Where is there ANY objective verifiable evidence
that there is a Satan?
You keep insisting on objective evidence of God (despite your very
subjective arguments against Him). Well, there is one piece that you
prove
very well, and that is this;
You never come here, and make claims against the gods, Jupiter, Oden,
Zeus,
and the host of other gods. You only come here to make claims against
the
Christian God. Why?
Obviouslly because all you nut Christians believe that these other gods
are fakes and want everyone to
submit to the demands of "your" god.
Because these other gods have had no effect on you what so ever.
However,
Jesus has had such a powerful effect on you that you go way out of your
way
to attack Him. You spend endless time and energy in this pursuit because
He
has had such an effect on you. Unfortunately you use your time and
energy
lying about Him.
In your not very logical "opinion".
He has had such an effect on you that you can not even give a logical
argument.
Read my post again.
I think this is where the "talking to a brick wall" comment was originated.
Talking to someone brainwashed by ancient man-made myths.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
27 Nov 2005 08:06:12 PM |
|
|
"ManMadeGod" <spamhere@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:8ytif.11836$mm5.1750@dukeread03...
I think this is where the "talking to a brick wall" comment was
originated. Talking to someone brainwashed by ancient man-made myths.
So do you spend a lot of your time talking to brick walls?
.
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| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
28 Nov 2005 07:18:02 AM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
"ManMadeGod" <spamhere@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:8ytif.11836$mm5.1750@dukeread03...
I think this is where the "talking to a brick wall" comment was
originated. Talking to someone brainwashed by ancient man-made myths.
So do you spend a lot of your time talking to brick walls?
Yes it seems we have to, there are dozens of them in these NG's, not only
are they brick walls, they also wear blinkers and sometimes rose coloured
spectacles.
Bob
Humanist Brit.
Hong kong
You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible
fooleries of magic and religion. Only man behaves with such gratuitous
folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as
yet, quite intelligent enough.
[Aldous Leonard Huxley]
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
28 Nov 2005 05:47:50 PM |
|
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"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:438B030F.3E4F2426@netvigator.com...
So do you spend a lot of your time talking to brick walls?
Yes it seems we have to, there are dozens of them in these NG's, not only
are they brick walls, they also wear blinkers and sometimes rose coloured
spectacles.
You should really find a more interesting group of people to linger with.
Have the atheists got you bored stiff?
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
01 Dec 2005 05:45:42 AM |
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"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:QGMif.43776$2k5.20024@dukeread09...
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:438B030F.3E4F2426@netvigator.com...
So do you spend a lot of your time talking to brick walls?
Yes it seems we have to, there are dozens of them in these NG's, not only
are they brick walls, they also wear blinkers and sometimes rose coloured
spectacles.
You should really find a more interesting group of people to linger with.
Have the atheists got you bored stiff?
Bob exclusively trolls Christian groups and has been chanting the same
atheist mantra for years now, yet never made a single convert. We should
give him a medal for incompetency. He surely deserves it.
Pastor Frank
troll (trol) verb
To post a message in a newsgroup or other online conference in
the hopes, that somebody else will consider the original message so
outrageous, that it demands a heated reply.
A classic example of a troll is, to post an article in favor of
torturing cats in a pet lovers' newsgroup.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
01 Dec 2005 06:18:15 AM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:1133437542.d989693f848c5acf5c3d7ab5e892c823@fe5.teranews.com...
Bob exclusively trolls Christian groups and has been chanting the same
atheist mantra for years now, yet never made a single convert. We should
give him a medal for incompetency. He surely deserves it.
And lack of grammar skills. "Do you never question your beliefs?"
Now what exactly is he asking here? ;-()
.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
01 Dec 2005 08:04:01 PM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:1133437542.d989693f848c5acf5c3d7ab5e892c823@fe5.teranews.com...
Bob exclusively trolls Christian groups and has been chanting the same
atheist mantra for years now, yet never made a single convert. We should
give him a medal for incompetency. He surely deserves it.
And lack of grammar skills. "Do you never question your beliefs?"
Now what exactly is he asking here? ;-()
Resorting to questioning grammatical skills of others when trying to justify
your belief is a dead give away.
*You cannot justify it*, so you 'divert attention'.
[It doesn't work, you cynical blinkered individual Billy]
Bob
"It would be very nice if there were a God who created the world and was a
benevolent providence, and if there were a moral order in the universe and an
after-life; but it is a very striking fact that all this is exactly as we are
bound to wish it to be."
[Sigmund Freud]
"I can believe anything, provided it is incredible."
[Oscar Wilde]
.
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| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
01 Dec 2005 07:57:02 PM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:QGMif.43776$2k5.20024@dukeread09...
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:438B030F.3E4F2426@netvigator.com...
So do you spend a lot of your time talking to brick walls?
Yes it seems we have to, there are dozens of them in these NG's, not only
are they brick walls, they also wear blinkers and sometimes rose coloured
spectacles.
You should really find a more interesting group of people to linger with.
Have the atheists got you bored stiff?
Bob exclusively trolls Christian groups and has been chanting the same
atheist mantra for years now, yet never made a single convert. We should
give him a medal for incompetency. He surely deserves it.
Pastor Frank
Now how would you know about converts Frank? [reckon you might just be giving
the game away there].
I have certainly made people think, including you. [and that's no easy task]
Bob
humanist Brit.
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence."
[Thomas Huxley, Evolution and Ethics]
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A
non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
[Maynard James Keenan]
troll (trol) verb
To post a message in a newsgroup or other online conference in
the hopes, that somebody else will consider the original message so
outrageous, that it demands a heated reply.
A classic example of a troll is, to post an article in favor of
torturing cats in a pet lovers' newsgroup.
.
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| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
29 Nov 2005 12:15:02 AM |
|
|
Bill Gamelson wrote:
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:438B030F.3E4F2426@netvigator.com...
So do you spend a lot of your time talking to brick walls?
Yes it seems we have to, there are dozens of them in these NG's, not only
are they brick walls, they also wear blinkers and sometimes rose coloured
spectacles.
You should really find a more interesting group of people to linger with.
Have the atheists got you bored stiff?
Hardly:
"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is
human concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious mind
cannot begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not an
old religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and
never has been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is magnificent in
its simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of
madness."
[Atheism: An Affirmative View, by Emmett F. Fields]
Emmett's final line really hits home eh?
.
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| User: "shadow" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
27 Nov 2005 09:06:23 PM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:rRmif.32467$Y82.5402@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Why did your god create us to do evil?
god did not create 'us to do evil'. evil comes from 'free will'.
thats all. hence; you were given the liberty of choice, and free will...
god has nothing to do with evil. PEOPLE do. its up to you, not
god, to make a choice... evil... or good. thats all.
so what would you like? no freedom of choice, and no evil
among people, or freedom of choice... AND evil among people?
.
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
15 Dec 2005 10:04:06 PM |
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|
On 28 Nov 2005 04:06:23 +0100, "shadow" <shadow@sun.org> wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:rRmif.32467$Y82.5402@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Why did your god create us to do evil?
God did not create 'us to do evil'. evil comes from 'free will'.
So evil comes from the type of free will God gave us.
thats all. hence; you were given the liberty of choice, and free will...
Were we given all the knowledge and wisdom needed to always make the
right choices?
God has nothing to do with evil.
You don't believe in a creator God?
PEOPLE do. its up to you, not
God, to make a choice... evil... or good. thats all.
I hope you are not a parent.
So what would you like? No freedom of choice, and no evil
among people, or freedom of choice... AND evil among people?
We have no freedom of choice and we have evil.
If God knew he was unable or unwilling to give all of creation a life free
of suffering and evil he should never have created.
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
.
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| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
28 Nov 2005 07:19:03 AM |
|
|
shadow wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:rRmif.32467$Y82.5402@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Why did your god create us to do evil?
god did not create 'us to do evil'. evil comes from 'free will'.
thats all. hence; you were given the liberty of choice, and free will...
god has nothing to do with evil. PEOPLE do. its up to you, not
god, to make a choice... evil... or good. thats all.
so what would you like? no freedom of choice, and no evil
among people, or freedom of choice... AND evil among people?
It was human evil that lead early man to dream up his first gods.
They lived in fear from the day they were borne to the day they died, no wonder they would cling to
anything that might prevent evil in times when there were no laws, no courts, no law enforcement.
Try thinking, take off your blinkers
.
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| User: "shadow" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
28 Nov 2005 12:12:25 PM |
|
|
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message news:438B037B.6CA349FB@netvigator.com...
shadow wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:rRmif.32467$Y82.5402@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Why did your god create us to do evil?
god did not create 'us to do evil'. evil comes from 'free will'.
thats all. hence; you were given the liberty of choice, and free will...
god has nothing to do with evil. PEOPLE do. its up to you, not
god, to make a choice... evil... or good. thats all.
so what would you like? no freedom of choice, and no evil
among people, or freedom of choice... AND evil among people?
It was human evil that lead early man to dream up his first gods.
They lived in fear from the day they were borne to the day they died, no wonder they would cling
to
anything that might prevent evil in times when there were no laws, no courts, no law enforcement.
Try thinking, take off your blinkers
so youre saying that humans 'invented' god because humans were/are evil?
you sure? maybe god was here all the time... but we figured it out. who knows...
but hey, nevermind.
.
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| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
29 Nov 2005 12:17:03 AM |
|
|
shadow wrote:
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message news:438B037B.6CA349FB@netvigator.com...
shadow wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:rRmif.32467$Y82.5402@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Why did your god create us to do evil?
god did not create 'us to do evil'. evil comes from 'free will'.
thats all. hence; you were given the liberty of choice, and free will...
god has nothing to do with evil. PEOPLE do. its up to you, not
god, to make a choice... evil... or good. thats all.
so what would you like? no freedom of choice, and no evil
among people, or freedom of choice... AND evil among people?
It was human evil that lead early man to dream up his first gods.
They lived in fear from the day they were borne to the day they died, no wonder they would cling
to
anything that might prevent evil in times when there were no laws, no courts, no law enforcement.
Try thinking, take off your blinkers
so youre saying that humans 'invented' god because humans were/are evil?
you sure? maybe god was here all the time... but we figured it out. who knows...
but hey, nevermind.
Agreed. Would be fine not ot mind, the trouble is some religionists, right now it is Islamists'
before it was others, are prepared to kill in the name of their imaginary god because their book
written by primitives tells them to attack all infidels'
sick isn't it?
Cheers
.
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| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
28 Nov 2005 07:14:02 AM |
|
|
Carl Rooker wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in it.
He
is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his image.
True, and what we believe.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in eternal
happiness.
Not true, and a misrepresentaion of what we believe.
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why did he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be selfish,
greedy and mean?
Since the second statement is untrue, then the proposition in this statement
is untrue.
He created us to do good, but mankind chose to do evil.
He supposedly gave man free will which permits man to do as man wishes.
Then
why did he create hunger pains to force man to eat and drink? And why did
he
create breathing panic to force man to breathe? And a powerful sex drive
to
force man to procreate? (Frequently in excess of mans ability to feed and
care for his creations!)
Then why create greed and selfishness which encourages man to steel, lie,
subjugate and even kill other men?
Again, a misrepresentation. He did not create man to be selfish and greedy,
He does not encourage us to steal, lie, and subjugate and kill others. This
is mankinds way, not His.
This is supposedly to keep man in line and force him to follow his wishes
and commands. This is characteristic of a dictator and slave master not
the
characteristics of an all loving and caring god.
Again, because you misrepresent the situation you come to wrong and
illogical conclusions.
He is not forcing anyone to do anything. He gave us the choice to follow
Him and do good, or to not follow Him and do the evil you admit we do.
Your characterization of Him as a dictator, or a slave master therefore has
no logical basis.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body
malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or
die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent children in
this horrible way?
He did not create these things. They are the result of mankind following
the Master of Chaos.
He is not punishing anyone in this way (at this point). It is the logical
conclusion of mankind following Satan's path, instead of God's path.
You keep insisting on objective evidence of God (despite your very
subjective arguments against Him). Well, there is one piece that you prove
very well, and that is this;
You never come here, and make claims against the gods, Jupiter, Oden, Zeus,
and the host of other gods. You only come here to make claims against the
Christian God. Why?
Because these other gods have had no effect on you what so ever. However,
Jesus has had such a powerful effect on you that you go way out of your way
to attack Him. You spend endless time and energy in this pursuit because He
has had such an effect on you. Unfortunately you use your time and energy
lying about Him.
He has had such an effect on you that you can not even give a logical
argument.
Carl, please do not resort to the use of that word 'logical' since there is
very little logical in your response other than posturising and straw
clutching.
Make it easy on all of us; admit there is much to doubt about your religion.
I'm assuming you are an honest person who would never tell a lie.
Cheers
Bob
God Bless
Carl
.
|
|
|
| User: "Carl Rooker" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
28 Nov 2005 09:32:12 AM |
|
|
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:438B0230.498EE83@netvigator.com...
Carl Rooker wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in
it.
He
is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his
image.
True, and what we believe.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in
eternal
happiness.
Not true, and a misrepresentaion of what we believe.
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why did
he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be
all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be selfish,
greedy and mean?
Since the second statement is untrue, then the proposition in this
statement
is untrue.
He created us to do good, but mankind chose to do evil.
He supposedly gave man free will which permits man to do as man
wishes.
Then
why did he create hunger pains to force man to eat and drink? And why
did
he
create breathing panic to force man to breathe? And a powerful sex
drive
to
force man to procreate? (Frequently in excess of mans ability to feed
and
care for his creations!)
Then why create greed and selfishness which encourages man to steel,
lie,
subjugate and even kill other men?
Again, a misrepresentation. He did not create man to be selfish and
greedy,
He does not encourage us to steal, lie, and subjugate and kill others.
This
is mankinds way, not His.
This is supposedly to keep man in line and force him to follow his
wishes
and commands. This is characteristic of a dictator and slave master
not
the
characteristics of an all loving and caring god.
Again, because you misrepresent the situation you come to wrong and
illogical conclusions.
He is not forcing anyone to do anything. He gave us the choice to
follow
Him and do good, or to not follow Him and do the evil you admit we do.
Your characterization of Him as a dictator, or a slave master therefore
has
no logical basis.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions,
Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body
malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death
or
die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent
children in
this horrible way?
He did not create these things. They are the result of mankind
following
the Master of Chaos.
He is not punishing anyone in this way (at this point). It is the
logical
conclusion of mankind following Satan's path, instead of God's path.
You keep insisting on objective evidence of God (despite your very
subjective arguments against Him). Well, there is one piece that you
prove
very well, and that is this;
You never come here, and make claims against the gods, Jupiter, Oden,
Zeus,
and the host of other gods. You only come here to make claims against
the
Christian God. Why?
Because these other gods have had no effect on you what so ever.
However,
Jesus has had such a powerful effect on you that you go way out of your
way
to attack Him. You spend endless time and energy in this pursuit
because He
has had such an effect on you. Unfortunately you use your time and
energy
lying about Him.
He has had such an effect on you that you can not even give a logical
argument.
Carl, please do not resort to the use of that word 'logical' since there
is
very little logical in your response other than posturising and straw
clutching.
Make it easy on all of us; admit there is much to doubt about your
religion.
I'm assuming you are an honest person who would never tell a lie.
In these posts I am merely pointing out the misrepresentations of a person,
posted as a logical argument. Do you think it is logical to lie about
someone, then prove the lie is evidence of their non-logic?
Are you telling me that it is not logical to point out these
misrepresetations, and the following arguments as lacking in Logic?
If there is "much to doubt" about what we believe, then present the case
honestly, and let us have a logical debate about it. The failure to do so
only shows dishonesty on some peoples part. That other atheists (or
humanists) do not decry the same dishonesty only shows their own dishonesty.
Now, are you an honest person, or not?
God Bless
Carl
.
|
|
|
| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
29 Nov 2005 12:20:02 AM |
|
|
Carl Rooker wrote:
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:438B0230.498EE83@netvigator.com...
Carl Rooker wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in
it.
He
is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his
image.
True, and what we believe.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in
eternal
happiness.
Not true, and a misrepresentaion of what we believe.
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why did
he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be
all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be selfish,
greedy and mean?
Since the second statement is untrue, then the proposition in this
statement
is untrue.
He created us to do good, but mankind chose to do evil.
He supposedly gave man free will which permits man to do as man
wishes.
Then
why did he create hunger pains to force man to eat and drink? And why
did
he
create breathing panic to force man to breathe? And a powerful sex
drive
to
force man to procreate? (Frequently in excess of mans ability to feed
and
care for his creations!)
Then why create greed and selfishness which encourages man to steel,
lie,
subjugate and even kill other men?
Again, a misrepresentation. He did not create man to be selfish and
greedy,
He does not encourage us to steal, lie, and subjugate and kill others.
This
is mankinds way, not His.
This is supposedly to keep man in line and force him to follow his
wishes
and commands. This is characteristic of a dictator and slave master
not
the
characteristics of an all loving and caring god.
Again, because you misrepresent the situation you come to wrong and
illogical conclusions.
He is not forcing anyone to do anything. He gave us the choice to
follow
Him and do good, or to not follow Him and do the evil you admit we do.
Your characterization of Him as a dictator, or a slave master therefore
has
no logical basis.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions,
Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body
malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death
or
die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent
children in
this horrible way?
He did not create these things. They are the result of mankind
following
the Master of Chaos.
He is not punishing anyone in this way (at this point). It is the
logical
conclusion of mankind following Satan's path, instead of God's path.
You keep insisting on objective evidence of God (despite your very
subjective arguments against Him). Well, there is one piece that you
prove
very well, and that is this;
You never come here, and make claims against the gods, Jupiter, Oden,
Zeus,
and the host of other gods. You only come here to make claims against
the
Christian God. Why?
Because these other gods have had no effect on you what so ever.
However,
Jesus has had such a powerful effect on you that you go way out of your
way
to attack Him. You spend endless time and energy in this pursuit
because He
has had such an effect on you. Unfortunately you use your time and
energy
lying about Him.
He has had such an effect on you that you can not even give a logical
argument.
Carl, please do not resort to the use of that word 'logical' since there
is
very little logical in your response other than posturising and straw
clutching.
Make it easy on all of us; admit there is much to doubt about your
religion.
I'm assuming you are an honest person who would never tell a lie.
In these posts I am merely pointing out the misrepresentations of a person,
posted as a logical argument. Do you think it is logical to lie about
someone, then prove the lie is evidence of their non-logic?
Are you telling me that it is not logical to point out these
misrepresetations, and the following arguments as lacking in Logic?
If there is "much to doubt" about what we believe, then present the case
honestly, and let us have a logical debate about it. The failure to do so
only shows dishonesty on some peoples part. That other atheists (or
humanists) do not decry the same dishonesty only shows their own dishonesty.
Now, are you an honest person, or not?
Yep and one who is prepared to take each point and deal with it.
There is far too much deviation around here don't you think?
God Bless
Carl
.
|
|
|
| User: "Carl Rooker" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
29 Nov 2005 08:46:47 AM |
|
|
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:438BF297.154A6657@netvigator.com...
Carl Rooker wrote:
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:438B0230.498EE83@netvigator.com...
Carl Rooker wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything
in
it.
He
is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his
image.
True, and what we believe.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in
eternal
happiness.
Not true, and a misrepresentaion of what we believe.
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why
did
he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to
be
all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be
selfish,
greedy and mean?
Since the second statement is untrue, then the proposition in this
statement
is untrue.
He created us to do good, but mankind chose to do evil.
He supposedly gave man free will which permits man to do as man
wishes.
Then
why did he create hunger pains to force man to eat and drink? And
why
did
he
create breathing panic to force man to breathe? And a powerful sex
drive
to
force man to procreate? (Frequently in excess of mans ability to
feed
and
care for his creations!)
Then why create greed and selfishness which encourages man to
steel,
lie,
subjugate and even kill other men?
Again, a misrepresentation. He did not create man to be selfish and
greedy,
He does not encourage us to steal, lie, and subjugate and kill
others.
This
is mankinds way, not His.
This is supposedly to keep man in line and force him to follow his
wishes
and commands. This is characteristic of a dictator and slave
master
not
the
characteristics of an all loving and caring god.
Again, because you misrepresent the situation you come to wrong and
illogical conclusions.
He is not forcing anyone to do anything. He gave us the choice to
follow
Him and do good, or to not follow Him and do the evil you admit we
do.
Your characterization of Him as a dictator, or a slave master
therefore
has
no logical basis.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring
intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions,
Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body
malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to
death
or
die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent
children in
this horrible way?
He did not create these things. They are the result of mankind
following
the Master of Chaos.
He is not punishing anyone in this way (at this point). It is the
logical
conclusion of mankind following Satan's path, instead of God's path.
You keep insisting on objective evidence of God (despite your very
subjective arguments against Him). Well, there is one piece that
you
prove
very well, and that is this;
You never come here, and make claims against the gods, Jupiter,
Oden,
Zeus,
and the host of other gods. You only come here to make claims
against
the
Christian God. Why?
Because these other gods have had no effect on you what so ever.
However,
Jesus has had such a powerful effect on you that you go way out of
your
way
to attack Him. You spend endless time and energy in this pursuit
because He
has had such an effect on you. Unfortunately you use your time and
energy
lying about Him.
He has had such an effect on you that you can not even give a
logical
argument.
Carl, please do not resort to the use of that word 'logical' since
there
is
very little logical in your response other than posturising and straw
clutching.
Make it easy on all of us; admit there is much to doubt about your
religion.
I'm assuming you are an honest person who would never tell a lie.
In these posts I am merely pointing out the misrepresentations of a
person,
posted as a logical argument. Do you think it is logical to lie about
someone, then prove the lie is evidence of their non-logic?
Are you telling me that it is not logical to point out these
misrepresetations, and the following arguments as lacking in Logic?
If there is "much to doubt" about what we believe, then present the case
honestly, and let us have a logical debate about it. The failure to do
so
only shows dishonesty on some peoples part. That other atheists (or
humanists) do not decry the same dishonesty only shows their own
dishonesty.
Now, are you an honest person, or not?
Yep and one who is prepared to take each point and deal with it.
There is far too much deviation around here don't you think?
Are you prepared to take one point at a time, not misrepresent what we
believe to falsify it, and engage in an honest debate?
I would welcome it over the drivel we have been exposed to.
God bless
Carl
.
|
|
|
| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
29 Nov 2005 09:13:03 PM |
|
|
Carl Rooker wrote:
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:438BF297.154A6657@netvigator.com...
Carl Rooker wrote:
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:438B0230.498EE83@netvigator.com...
Carl Rooker wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything
in
it.
He
is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his
image.
True, and what we believe.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in
eternal
happiness.
Not true, and a misrepresentaion of what we believe.
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why
did
he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to
be
all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be
selfish,
greedy and mean?
Since the second statement is untrue, then the proposition in this
statement
is untrue.
He created us to do good, but mankind chose to do evil.
He supposedly gave man free will which permits man to do as man
wishes.
Then
why did he create hunger pains to force man to eat and drink? And
why
did
he
create breathing panic to force man to breathe? And a powerful sex
drive
to
force man to procreate? (Frequently in excess of mans ability to
feed
and
care for his creations!)
Then why create greed and selfishness which encourages man to
steel,
lie,
subjugate and even kill other men?
Again, a misrepresentation. He did not create man to be selfish and
greedy,
He does not encourage us to steal, lie, and subjugate and kill
others.
This
is mankinds way, not His.
This is supposedly to keep man in line and force him to follow his
wishes
and commands. This is characteristic of a dictator and slave
master
not
the
characteristics of an all loving and caring god.
Again, because you misrepresent the situation you come to wrong and
illogical conclusions.
He is not forcing anyone to do anything. He gave us the choice to
follow
Him and do good, or to not follow Him and do the evil you admit we
do.
Your characterization of Him as a dictator, or a slave master
therefore
has
no logical basis.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring
intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions,
Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body
malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to
death
or
die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent
children in
this horrible way?
He did not create these things. They are the result of mankind
following
the Master of Chaos.
He is not punishing anyone in this way (at this point). It is the
logical
conclusion of mankind following Satan's path, instead of God's path.
You keep insisting on objective evidence of God (despite your very
subjective arguments against Him). Well, there is one piece that
you
prove
very well, and that is this;
You never come here, and make claims against the gods, Jupiter,
Oden,
Zeus,
and the host of other gods. You only come here to make claims
against
the
Christian God. Why?
Because these other gods have had no effect on you what so ever.
However,
Jesus has had such a powerful effect on you that you go way out of
your
way
to attack Him. You spend endless time and energy in this pursuit
because He
has had such an effect on you. Unfortunately you use your time and
energy
lying about Him.
He has had such an effect on you that you can not even give a
logical
argument.
Carl, please do not resort to the use of that word 'logical' since
there
is
very little logical in your response other than posturising and straw
clutching.
Make it easy on all of us; admit there is much to doubt about your
religion.
I'm assuming you are an honest person who would never tell a lie.
In these posts I am merely pointing out the misrepresentations of a
person,
posted as a logical argument. Do you think it is logical to lie about
someone, then prove the lie is evidence of their non-logic?
Are you telling me that it is not logical to point out these
misrepresetations, and the following arguments as lacking in Logic?
If there is "much to doubt" about what we believe, then present the case
honestly, and let us have a logical debate about it. The failure to do
so
only shows dishonesty on some peoples part. That other atheists (or
humanists) do not decry the same dishonesty only shows their own
dishonesty.
Now, are you an honest person, or not?
Yep and one who is prepared to take each point and deal with it.
There is far too much deviation around here don't you think?
Are you prepared to take one point at a time, not misrepresent what we
believe to falsify it, and engage in an honest debate?
I would welcome it over the drivel we have been exposed to.
God bless
Carl
Any time, any time
Cheers
bob
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| User: "Carl Rooker" |
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| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
30 Nov 2005 09:02:46 AM |
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"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:438D1874.6C10ED9B@netvigator.com...
Are you prepared to take one point at a time, not misrepresent what we
believe to falsify it, and engage in an honest debate?
I would welcome it over the drivel we have been exposed to.
God bless
Carl
Any time, any time
Cheers
bob
Good. See my response to Bill in "Is there any real God????"
God Bless
Carl
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
26 Nov 2005 10:34:31 AM |
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"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in it.
He is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his image.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in eternal
happiness.
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why did he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be selfish,
greedy and mean?
[snip]
Troll alert! Troll alert!
Crosspost alert! Crosspost alert!
.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
26 Nov 2005 11:15:01 PM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in it.
He is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his image.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in eternal
happiness.
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why did he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be selfish,
greedy and mean?
[snip]
Troll alert! Troll alert!
Crosspost alert! Crosspost alert!
WOW that's a neat method of avoiding answering a host of common sense
questions!
Well done
bob
.
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| User: "Carl Rooker" |
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| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
27 Nov 2005 11:25:25 AM |
|
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"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:43894063.559D7F82@netvigator.com...
Bill Gamelson wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in
it.
He is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his
image.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in
eternal
happiness.
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why did
he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be
all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be selfish,
greedy and mean?
[snip]
Troll alert! Troll alert!
Crosspost alert! Crosspost alert!
WOW that's a neat method of avoiding answering a host of common sense
questions!
But the questions were not common sense. They were misrepresentations of
what Christians believe (and Bill knew it), and a logically inconsistent
argument. Bill Gamelson's reaction is probably the better one than wasting
time trying to set Bill straight.
God Bless
Carl
Well done
bob
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
27 Nov 2005 12:12:32 PM |
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"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1133112330.567266@w9.dnx.net...
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:43894063.559D7F82@netvigator.com...
Bill Gamelson wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SW%hf.21490$i7.20728@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in
it.
He is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his
image.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in
eternal
happiness.
If this is true, why did he earth sin and punishment on Earth? Why
did
he
create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be
all
caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be
selfish,
greedy and mean?
[snip]
Troll alert! Troll alert!
Crosspost alert! Crosspost alert!
WOW that's a neat method of avoiding answering a host of common sense
questions!
But the questions were not common sense. They were misrepresentations of
what Christians believe (and Bill knew it), and a logically inconsistent
argument. Bill Gamelson's reaction is probably the better one than
wasting
time trying to set Bill straight.
As usual Carl, you have no facts to support your claims. If you can't supply
some objective
verifiable evidence why don't you just admit it instead of engaging in silly
statements. It makes
you look like a fool.
God Bless
Carl
Well done
bob
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| User: "Carl Rooker" |
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| Title: Re: GOD CREATED THIS??? |
28 Nov 2005 09:35:19 AM |
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"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:9Emif.32456$Y82.21550@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1133112330.567266@w9.dnx.net...
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:43894063.559D7F82 | | | | | |
