| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"vinisaac" |
| Date: |
13 Jan 2006 08:34:40 PM |
| Object: |
God Exists!!!! |
Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows
His handiwork.
Psa 19:2 Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals
knowledge.
Every where what we see, we see God's handiwork. Man is still trying to
figure out how it can be. DNA structure in itself is so complex that it
can't happen by chance or by itself.
Have you ever seen a clock broken by a big-bang assemble itself? No
nothing in the world assembles itself by random chances.
Vinod Isaac
http://vinodisaac.com
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http://jcsearch.com - your source of web search
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| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
15 Jan 2006 01:31:19 AM |
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wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in
news:11shdgh595qfk3c@corp.supernews.com:
vinisaac wrote:
What kind of proof you are looking for?
John 14:12-14
12: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that
believeth on me, the works that I do shall he
do also; and greater works than these shall
he do; because I go unto my Father.
13: And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name,
that will I do, that the Father may be
glorified in the Son.
14: If ye shall ask any thing in my name,
I will do it.
Work us a miracle like Jesus said Christians can do.
I want one too dammit! Give me a miracle. The winning lotto numbers for
the Texas, Illinois, New York, or Powerball lottery would be sufficient.
pierce
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
13 Jan 2006 08:37:42 PM |
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"vinisaac" <vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote in news:1137206079.968057.96970
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows
His handiwork.
Psa 19:2 Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals
knowledge.
Every where what we see, we see God's handiwork. Man is still trying to
figure out how it can be. DNA structure in itself is so complex that it
can't happen by chance or by itself.
Have you ever seen a clock broken by a big-bang assemble itself? No
nothing in the world assembles itself by random chances.
How about God? How was he assembled?
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
Humanity has the stars in its future, and that future is too important to
be lost under the burden of juvenile folly and ignorant superstition.
-- Isaac Asimov (attributed: source unknown)
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| User: "vinisaac" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
13 Jan 2006 08:51:37 PM |
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God is not a physical being so there is no question of Assembly.
Vinod Isaac
http://vinodisaac.com
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http://jcsearch.com - your source of web search
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| User: "Peacenik" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
14 Jan 2006 08:19:14 PM |
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"vinisaac" <vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137207097.638482.50090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
God is not a physical being so there is no question of Assembly.
Special pleading. Refuted.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
13 Jan 2006 09:05:26 PM |
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"vinisaac" <vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote in news:1137207097.638482.50090
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
God is not a physical being so there is no question of Assembly.
(1) The non-existant is not a physical being. You've told me what God is
not. Can you tell me what God is?
(2) That's called "special pleading". If anything can exist without
being created, then the universe can exist without being created. If
nothing can exist without being created, then God cannot exist without
being created.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the
Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun.
Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-eight million miles is an
utterly insignificant little blue-green planet whose ape-descended life
forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches
are a pretty neat idea.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
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| User: "vinisaac" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
13 Jan 2006 09:25:33 PM |
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1.) God is Spirit. Writer of Heb describes Him as "eternal Spirit"
Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the
eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your
conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
2.) You come again to the same question of Chicken and Egg which was
first. Egg can not exists without Chicken and Chicken cannot exist
without Egg. Well Bible talks about it this way
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.
John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was
made that was made.
"In the begining was the Word" so when you want to go to the very
begining Word was there and He was God. In other words if you put
begining to infiniti God was still there and through Him everything
came into existence. In Mathamatics you have infinity and you can't
find the end point of it right? It is exactly the same thing.
That is why God says
Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,"
says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Since this eternal Spirit called God had eternal power, eternal
ability, eternal knowledge, eternal wisdom He created things according
to His plan and purpose. The very physical laws you see are His
creation and design.
So when you compare Him with physical law you are trying to limit Him
into something that He is not. At the other end if you look at things
with human perspective and physical laws. Physical law is that a random
explosion does not assemble itself into an intelligent way.
Vinod Isaac
http://vinodisaac.com
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http://jcsearch.com - your source of web search
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| User: "Uncle Gordon" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
14 Jan 2006 05:11:23 PM |
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"In the beginning was the *word-salad*...".
http://yltbible.com/john/1.htm
Gord.
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| User: "Lörd Phÿltêr" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
13 Jan 2006 10:06:37 PM |
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"vinisaac" <vinisaac@gmail.com> had me ROTFL with:
news:1137209133.556857.32710@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
1.) God is Spirit. Writer of Heb describes Him as "eternal Spirit"
Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the
eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your
conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
2.) You come again to the same question of Chicken and Egg which was
first. Egg can not exists without Chicken and Chicken cannot exist
without Egg. Well Bible talks about it this way
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.
John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was
made that was made.
"In the begining was the Word" so when you want to go to the very
begining Word was there and He was God. In other words if you put
begining to infiniti God was still there and through Him everything
came into existence. In Mathamatics you have infinity and you can't
find the end point of it right? It is exactly the same thing.
You're a cretinous fucking moron.
--
Lörd Phÿltêr
Alt.Atheism #1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
13 Jan 2006 09:45:58 PM |
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"vinisaac" <vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137209133.556857.32710@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
1.) God is Spirit.
provie it.
2.) You come again to the same question of Chicken and Egg which was
first. Egg can not exists without Chicken and Chicken cannot exist
without Egg. Well Bible talks about it this way
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.
John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was
made that was made.
"In the begining was the Word" so when you want to go to the very
begining Word was there and He was God.
Prove it.
That is why God says
Prove your god exists and said anything.
Since this eternal Spirit
Prove it exists.
called God had eternal power, eternal
ability, eternal knowledge, eternal wisdom He created things according
to His plan and purpose. The very physical laws you see are His
creation and design.
Prove it.
So when you compare Him
Prove "he" exists.
Well you have your homework. I await your results.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
13 Jan 2006 10:08:52 PM |
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"vinisaac" <vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote in news:1137209133.556857.32710
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
1.) God is Spirit.
What the hell is "spirit"?
2.) You come again to the same question of Chicken and Egg which was
first. Egg can not exists without Chicken and Chicken cannot exist
without Egg. Well Bible talks about it this way
Whoa, ducky! The Bible does not count until you first prove it is true.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
Doing my part to ***** off the religious right.
-- lapel button
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| User: "vinisaac" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
13 Jan 2006 10:41:39 PM |
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Looks like most of the people here have one word "prove it" and I am
still trying to understand if anybody here really understand the
meaning of these words?
Probably with human limited mind people here are thinking proof means
endorsement of Science, or may be testing things with some physical
meter. But the fact is Non physical things can't be messured with
physical instruments.
Let me give some example. If some body asks you how you are feeling?
you say I am not feeling good. So the person who asked you the question
says prove it, will that not be the most stupid thing to do in the
whole world?
Some of the demands here looks exactly the same to me.
Proof is something that you compare things that are said and try to
determine if they are true or not. To determine you have experiment it
in the same line of reference. You can't compare Apples and Oranges. If
you try to compare them that will be total stupidity.
In the same way if you dismiss Bible and ask to prove God that is total
stupidity. God has revealed His properties and characteristics in the
Bible and you can't know Him apart from Bible. Reason is simple human
instruments are not capable of knowing Him.
I will give an example. I have a chair in my room and I move it from
point A to point B and then Point B to point C and then to Point A
again. Now another person who was in the room before I did this and had
seen the chair at point A comes back again after I did it and sees the
chair at point A and if I tell him that I moved it from A to B to C and
back. He refuses to believe, there is absolutely no scientific way to
prove it.
My point is science is handicapped and is not capable of proving
everything in the world so if somebody turnes to science for proof of
every single thing is the most stupid person in the world. Science and
give proof and analysis for things it has data. Once data is not there
or not given science doesn't know how to create that data.
Now God has revealed certain things about Himself and one can try to
compare those things with the available data to figure out if that data
is accurate or not. For this comparison a person definately has to turn
to Bible because that is the book that talks about God.
Vinod Isaac
http://vinodisaac.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://jcsearch.com - your source of web search
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
14 Jan 2006 08:36:26 AM |
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"vinisaac" <vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1137213699.582365.120580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Looks like most of the people here have one word "prove it" and I am
still trying to understand if anybody here really understand the
meaning of these words?
Probably with human limited mind people here are thinking proof means
endorsement of Science, or may be testing things with some physical
meter. But the fact is Non physical things can't be messured with
physical instruments.
That would include *your* limited human mind, so what are you doing
trying to tell us that you understand something that you cannot possibly
understand?
Let me give some example. If some body asks you how you are feeling?
you say I am not feeling good. So the person who asked you the
question says prove it, will that not be the most stupid thing to do
in the whole world?
If you're comparing God to an emotional state, I agree. That was easy.
Some of the demands here looks exactly the same to me.
Proof is something that you compare things that are said and try to
determine if they are true or not. To determine you have experiment it
in the same line of reference. You can't compare Apples and Oranges.
If you try to compare them that will be total stupidity.
In the same way if you dismiss Bible and ask to prove God that is
total stupidity. God has revealed His properties and characteristics
in the Bible and you can't know Him apart from Bible. Reason is simple
human instruments are not capable of knowing Him.
You can't know Harry Potter apart from the books either. You can't know
Bilbo Baggins apart from "The Hobbit".
I will give an example. I have a chair in my room and I move it from
point A to point B and then Point B to point C and then to Point A
again. Now another person who was in the room before I did this and
had seen the chair at point A comes back again after I did it and sees
the chair at point A and if I tell him that I moved it from A to B to
C and back. He refuses to believe, there is absolutely no scientific
way to prove it.
So, by this analogy, your God does everything behind our backs, but he
expects us to believe in him anyway.
My point is science is handicapped and is not capable of proving
everything in the world so if somebody turnes to science for proof of
every single thing is the most stupid person in the world. Science and
give proof and analysis for things it has data. Once data is not there
or not given science doesn't know how to create that data.
Now God has revealed certain things about Himself and one can try to
compare those things with the available data to figure out if that
data is accurate or not. For this comparison a person definately has
to turn to Bible because that is the book that talks about God.
God revealed to me that He doesn't exist. So why should I believe you?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Point the finger and make a fuss
before someone points the finger at us."
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| User: "vinisaac" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
14 Jan 2006 03:56:09 PM |
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God revealed to you that He doesn't exist??? Then who was He who
revealed to you?
Well God doesn't do every thing behind your back. In fact you do see
His finished product every single day with your own eyes but you
probably deliberately want to have an explanation other than "God".
That is blinding your eyes.
If you compare His revelations with existing things you will know that
He is real.
Vinod Isaac
http://vinodisaac.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://jcsearch.com - your source of web search
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
15 Jan 2006 06:01:37 AM |
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"vinisaac" <vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote in news:1137275769.147714.114420
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
God revealed to you that He doesn't exist??? Then who was He who
revealed to you?
He was Me. When I was a Christian, I had serious doubts that I couldn't
shake. So I prayed for a resolution to my doubts and I got it. God
doesn't exist. I was answering myself.
Well God doesn't do every thing behind your back. In fact you do see
His finished product every single day with your own eyes but you
probably deliberately want to have an explanation other than "God".
Ah, so you're a mindreader too.
That is blinding your eyes.
The old standard Christer lie about how I'm spiritually blind. Why do
you liars always fall back on that one? If I'm so blind, why do I see
right through your false face?
If you compare His revelations with existing things you will know that
He is real.
Been there, done that, burned the t-shirt.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Point the finger and make a fuss
before someone points the finger at us."
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
14 Jan 2006 08:15:31 AM |
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"vinisaac" <vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137213699.582365.120580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Looks like most of the people here have one word "prove it" and I am
still trying to understand if anybody here really understand the
meaning of these words?\
Apparently you don't.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
14 Jan 2006 12:28:13 AM |
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"vinisaac" <vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote in news:1137213699.582365.120580
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Looks like most of the people here have one word "prove it" and I am
still trying to understand if anybody here really understand the
meaning of these words?
Probably with human limited mind people here are thinking proof means
endorsement of Science, or may be testing things with some physical
meter. But the fact is Non physical things can't be messured with
physical instruments.
Let me give some example. If some body asks you how you are feeling?
you say I am not feeling good. So the person who asked you the question
says prove it, will that not be the most stupid thing to do in the
whole world?
Some of the demands here looks exactly the same to me.
Proof is something that you compare things that are said and try to
determine if they are true or not. To determine you have experiment it
in the same line of reference. You can't compare Apples and Oranges. If
you try to compare them that will be total stupidity.
In the same way if you dismiss Bible and ask to prove God that is total
stupidity. God has revealed His properties and characteristics in the
Bible and you can't know Him apart from Bible. Reason is simple human
instruments are not capable of knowing Him.
I will give an example. I have a chair in my room and I move it from
point A to point B and then Point B to point C and then to Point A
again. Now another person who was in the room before I did this and had
seen the chair at point A comes back again after I did it and sees the
chair at point A and if I tell him that I moved it from A to B to C and
back. He refuses to believe, there is absolutely no scientific way to
prove it.
Actually there is evidence to prove that you did move it. You example is
a poor one.
My point is science is handicapped and is not capable of proving
everything in the world so if somebody turnes to science for proof of
every single thing is the most stupid person in the world. Science and
give proof and analysis for things it has data. Once data is not there
or not given science doesn't know how to create that data.
Science never said it had all the answers. You are viewing this as a
contest like ""Who has the bestest God with the mostest answers". This
isn't a contest pal. Science isn't a God and as such one cannot compare it
to God. One can use science to examine the world and make certain
statements regarding those observations.
Science does not create data. Never has. It measures, tabulates, perform
functions on it, but never creates it.
Now God has revealed certain things about Himself and one can try to
compare those things with the available data to figure out if that data
is accurate or not. For this comparison a person definately has to turn
to Bible because that is the book that talks about God.
I suggest you do your homework on the bible before coming here. Many
atheists were quite familiar with the Bible and as such they know that the
bible is nothing more than a collection of stories that was voted for
inclusion by a committee. Since a committee decided what to put in the
bible, it is the word of man and not God. Many of the stories in the bible
are pure fiction. As a matter of fact it cannot be proven that Jesus of
Nazareth ever existed.
Your statement about God revealing himselfto us is laughable. God is an
invention of Man. Man created God. Consider the following. Put away that
bible and don't refer it it. Now where is your proof of God or Jesus?
Don't try that "He is everywhere" ***** either. Santa was everywhere
too and watched us all the time to see if we were good. The truth of the
issue is that without the bible you don't have one shred of evidence of God
ever existing. There is no evidence of Moses or the 40 years the nation of
Israel spent in the desert. No evidence of Jesus either.
If you want to come here and preach be ready to get firly trounced, flamed,
and otherwise ridiculed. If you want to come here and ask some intelligent
questions, you are welcome to do so provided you realize the following:
1) The Bible is not proof of anything. The bible is fiction and has
nothing to do with God, his word, or anything else spiritual as far as
atheists are concerned. It is a collection of ***** stories that are
badly written and frankly it is an insult to intelligent people everywhere.
2) God does not exist. It has been proven logically, physically, and
scientifically.
3) Hard concrete facts like real scienific data, accepted theories, and the
like are welcome.
4) Most here are rational thinkers. That means that if an idea doesn't
makes sense, it is likely a irrational one. For example consider the
following. Statement: "God is Love" Answer: God kills children and
condemns people to an eternity of torture, pain, and unspeakable suffereing
for all of eternity. That is Love? No God is hate and cruelty.
So you now see that the statement "God is Love" is clearly false and an
irrational statement.
Now what were you saying about this God person you consider to be your
"invisible pal who is really nice, really big, and really strong"? Please
tell my friend Harvey here too but be sure to introdce yourself to him.
Harvey doesn't talk to strangers. Oh yes and Harvey is a rabbit so be
careful what you say. Harvey is easily upset. Carrot refernces are a no-
no. Say "Hello" to Harvey and then tell me all about this invisible God
fellow and what he has told you.
pierce
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| User: "Lost Planet Airman" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
15 Jan 2006 12:32:07 AM |
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R. Pierce Butler wrote:
<snip>
I suggest you do your homework on the bible before coming here. Many
atheists were quite familiar with the Bible and as such they know that the
bible is nothing more than a collection of stories that was voted for
inclusion by a committee. Since a committee decided what to put in the
bible, it is the word of man and not God. Many of the stories in the bible
are pure fiction. As a matter of fact it cannot be proven that Jesus of
Nazareth ever existed.
Josephus mentions him, and if you refuse to accept that as a "proof"
that Jesus existed, then perhaps you don't believe anyone else existed
from the written words of historians alone.
While you can discount the bible, it was written around that time frame.
That is two old sources of information that indicated his existence.
For most people, two seperate historical accounts of someones existence
are pretty close to being "proof" of that existence.
Your statement about God revealing himselfto us is laughable. God is an
invention of Man. Man created God. Consider the following. Put away that
bible and don't refer it it. Now where is your proof of God or Jesus?
Don't try that "He is everywhere" ***** either. Santa was everywhere
too and watched us all the time to see if we were good. The truth of the
issue is that without the bible you don't have one shred of evidence of God
ever existing. There is no evidence of Moses or the 40 years the nation of
Israel spent in the desert. No evidence of Jesus either.
Josephus actually recorded a brief bit about Jesus and the working of
miracles.
<snip>
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
15 Jan 2006 09:09:26 AM |
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In <qPqdnZ9_psf1cVTeRVn-pg@comcast.com>, Lost Planet Airman
<knightrd@comcast.net> wrote:
Josephus mentions him,
Josephus mentions there were people who *believed the Jesus story.
There's a difference between that and actually *seeing this person.
Josephus wasn't even born when Jesus allegedly was alive...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Charity hospital closes for good
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F3D51207C
A city on hold
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y3E55207C
If Katrina was a "judgment," god hates poor people
and churches but loves a good party...
http://www.nola.com/mardigras/
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
15 Jan 2006 11:04:56 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in news:hemdnWbZ4YA7-
FfenZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@megapath.net:
In <qPqdnZ9_psf1cVTeRVn-pg@comcast.com>, Lost Planet Airman
<knightrd@comcast.net> wrote:
Josephus mentions him,
Josephus mentions there were people who *believed the Jesus story.
There's a difference between that and actually *seeing this person.
Josephus wasn't even born when Jesus allegedly was alive...
I stand corrected. Thanks!!!
pierce
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| User: "vinisaac" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
17 Jan 2006 08:36:22 PM |
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Other than Josephus there are many who claimed themselves to be eye
witness and have written letters.
These letters were written just few years after Jesus' Death. Not only
that there are many 1st century writers who have touched on the Life of
Jesus.
There are also recorded evidences outside Bible that tell about Jesus.
Historic evidences are overwhelming on Jesus existed on the phase of
the earth.
Vinod Isaac
http://vinodisaac.com
--------------------------------------------
http://jcsearch.com - for your search needs
--------------------------------------------
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| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
17 Jan 2006 09:28:29 PM |
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"vinisaac" <vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote in news:1137551782.026121.215820
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Other than Josephus there are many who claimed themselves to be eye
witness and have written letters.
These letters were written just few years after Jesus' Death. Not only
that there are many 1st century writers who have touched on the Life of
Jesus.
There are also recorded evidences outside Bible that tell about Jesus.
Historic evidences are overwhelming on Jesus existed on the phase of
the earth.
Cites please
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
18 Jan 2006 11:16:25 AM |
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In <1137551782.026121.215820@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "vinisaac"
<vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote:
Other than Josephus there are many who claimed themselves to be eye
witness and have written letters.
Yes and characters in Ann Rice novels have interviewed vampires in person.
These letters were written just few years after Jesus' Death. Not only
that there are many 1st century writers who have touched on the Life of
Jesus.
Or so we're told.
There are also recorded evidences outside Bible that tell about Jesus.
Historic evidences are overwhelming on Jesus existed on the phase of the
earth.
No, the only extra-biblical "evidence" people can come up with are a
handful of references to there being people who *believed in a Jesus.
The only "eyewitness accounts" are Christian religious documents. Which
are the very documents that are in need of support. You cannot introduce
the documents in question in support of the documents in question. Sorry.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Katrina aftermath pictures
http://www.nola.com/katrinaphotos/user/
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
17 Jan 2006 08:55:43 PM |
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In alt.atheism On 17 Jan 2006 18:36:22 -0800, "vinisaac"
<vinisaac@gmail.com> let us all know that:
Other than Josephus there are many who claimed themselves to be eye
witness and have written letters.
No, there are none.
There are also recorded evidences outside Bible that tell about Jesus.
Historic evidences are overwhelming on Jesus existed on the phase of
the earth.
There are exactly 12 sentences outside of the bible books for
about 300 years. 12. Fucking. Sentences.
Don
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
18 Jan 2006 11:16:41 AM |
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In <4gbrs1h0s2oqpvbjif7qr981n4os7g001s@4ax.com>, Don Kresch
<ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:
In alt.atheism On 17 Jan 2006 18:36:22 -0800, "vinisaac"
<vinisaac@gmail.com> let us all know that:
Other than Josephus there are many who claimed themselves to be eye
witness and have written letters.
No, there are none.
There are also recorded evidences outside Bible that tell about Jesus.
Historic evidences are overwhelming on Jesus existed on the phase of the
earth.
There are exactly 12 sentences outside of the bible books for
about 300 years. 12. Fucking. Sentences.
Is it that many?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Katrina aftermath pictures
http://www.nola.com/katrinaphotos/user/
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
15 Jan 2006 01:18:06 AM |
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Lost Planet Airman <knightrd@comcast.net> wrote in
news:qPqdnZ9_psf1cVTeRVn-pg@comcast.com:
R. Pierce Butler wrote:
<snip>
I suggest you do your homework on the bible before coming here. Many
atheists were quite familiar with the Bible and as such they know that
the bible is nothing more than a collection of stories that was voted
for inclusion by a committee. Since a committee decided what to put in
the bible, it is the word of man and not God. Many of the stories in
the bible are pure fiction. As a matter of fact it cannot be proven
that Jesus of Nazareth ever existed.
Josephus mentions him, and if you refuse to accept that as a "proof"
that Jesus existed, then perhaps you don't believe anyone else existed
from the written words of historians alone.
While you can discount the bible, it was written around that time frame.
That is two old sources of information that indicated his existence.
For most people, two seperate historical accounts of someones existence
are pretty close to being "proof" of that existence.
Your statement about God revealing himselfto us is laughable. God is
an invention of Man. Man created God. Consider the following. Put
away that bible and don't refer it it. Now where is your proof of God
or Jesus? Don't try that "He is everywhere" ***** either. Santa
was everywhere too and watched us all the time to see if we were good.
The truth of the issue is that without the bible you don't have one
shred of evidence of God ever existing. There is no evidence of Moses
or the 40 years the nation of Israel spent in the desert. No evidence
of Jesus either.
Josephus actually recorded a brief bit about Jesus and the working of
miracles.
<snip>
I have read the josephus accounts and frankly they suck rocks. They are a
poor forgery at best.
In all your arsenal of literature can you cite anything else besides the
bible and the scant description Joshephus allegedly gave? A writing from
Nero would be nice. A record of his birth would be nice too. You see
there were a plague of "Messiah" dudes walking around 2000 year ago. It is
hard to determine if Jesus or Appalonius or Horus or ???? is the true
messiah.
The all were born of a virgin.
The all performed miracles.
The all rose people from the dead.
They all were hung on a tree (crucified).
They all were buried and resurrected.
They all returned after death and were seen by their disciples.
Please don't cite the bible. That is simply not a valid source no matter
what you or that book, or anyone else says for that matter.
I have studied the bible and frankly I am just not impressed. It is
poorly written, has many laws that are quite henious and unjust. It is
also filled with contradictions. If God is all powerful then why did he
have to rest on the 7th day? For being all powerful he certainly exhibits
a lot of human faults and weaknesses.
pierce
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
15 Jan 2006 04:57:08 AM |
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On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:32:07 -0600, Lost Planet Airman
<knightrd@comcast.net> wrote:
R. Pierce Butler wrote:
<snip>
I suggest you do your homework on the bible before coming here. Many
atheists were quite familiar with the Bible and as such they know that the
bible is nothing more than a collection of stories that was voted for
inclusion by a committee. Since a committee decided what to put in the
bible, it is the word of man and not God. Many of the stories in the bible
are pure fiction. As a matter of fact it cannot be proven that Jesus of
Nazareth ever existed.
Josephus mentions him, and if you refuse to accept that as a "proof"
that Jesus existed, then perhaps you don't believe anyone else existed
from the written words of historians alone.
It's an obvious forgery. And can the stupid, deliberately nasty straw
man.
While you can discount the bible, it was written around that time frame.
That is two old sources of information that indicated his existence.
*****. It's worthless.
For most people, two seperate historical accounts of someones existence
are pretty close to being "proof" of that existence.
Does two equal zero on your planet?
Your statement about God revealing himselfto us is laughable. God is an
invention of Man. Man created God. Consider the following. Put away that
bible and don't refer it it. Now where is your proof of God or Jesus?
Don't try that "He is everywhere" ***** either. Santa was everywhere
too and watched us all the time to see if we were good. The truth of the
issue is that without the bible you don't have one shred of evidence of God
ever existing. There is no evidence of Moses or the 40 years the nation of
Israel spent in the desert. No evidence of Jesus either.
Josephus actually recorded a brief bit about Jesus and the working of
miracles.
Did you bother to read it before stupidly imagining it fools anybody
who looks at it objectively?
<snip>
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
13 Jan 2006 10:57:16 PM |
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"vinisaac" <vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote in news:1137213699.582365.120580
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Looks like most of the people here have one word "prove it" and I am
still trying to understand if anybody here really understand the
meaning of these words?
That's two words, Skippy. And I didn't ask you to prove anything.
However, if you're use arguments and quotes from the Bible on non-
Christians, you should know that you are both arrogant and stupid. If we
believed the Bible, we'd already be Christians. If we don't believe the
Bible, why would we believe it when you Quote it?
Probably with human limited mind people here are thinking proof means
endorsement of Science, or may be testing things with some physical
meter. But the fact is Non physical things can't be measured with
physical instruments.
Neither can non-existent things. That's really the problem here. The
attributes you use to describe your God also describe the non-existence.
Let me give some example. If some body asks you how you are feeling?
you say I am not feeling good. So the person who asked you the question
says prove it, will that not be the most stupid thing to do in the
whole world?
Unless I'm wearing heavy gloves, I wouldn't say that. I might say "I'm
not feeling well." And if the person who made such a claim was an
employee who had a habit on feeling ill on Fridays and Mondays, I might
well require a doctor's evaluation, 'proving' he was feeling poorly. My
employer reserves the right to do just this.
Some of the demands here looks exactly the same to me.
With your eyes closed, everything looks alike.
[snip]
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
Creationists make it sound as though a "theory" is something you dreamt
up after being drunk all night.
-- Isaac Asimov (attributed: source unknown)
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
13 Jan 2006 11:47:12 PM |
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In <1137213699.582365.120580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "vinisaac"
<vinisaac@gmail.com> wrote:
Some of the demands here looks exactly the same to me.
But that's only because you're not very bright...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Charity hospital closes for good
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F3D51207C
A city on hold
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y3E55207C
If Katrina was a "judgment," god hates poor people
and churches but loves a good party...
http://www.nola.com/mardigras/
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
13 Jan 2006 10:54:38 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet vinisaac (vinisaac@gmail.com)
made the light shine upon us with this:
Looks like most of the people here have one word "prove it" and I am
still trying to understand if anybody here really understand the
meaning of these words?
Probably with human limited mind people here are thinking proof means
endorsement of Science, or may be testing things with some physical
meter. But the fact is Non physical things can't be messured with
physical instruments.
But there's an excellent chance these non-physical things are figments of
your imagination. Things that exist leave traces of their existence, even
if they've been long dead, like the dinosaurs. There is no evidence for
your god, trace or otherwise. None. Nada. What you call evidence is your
own personal incredulance. "See that tree over there? It is far too
complex to have evolved on its own." "See the Human eye? How could
something as complex as that evolve on its own?" You are far too willing
to accept the fantasyland answer over the real one. Why? Because the real
one doesn't offer eternal life.
<snip dogmatic reasoning>
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011, aw Hellboy #5
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
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| User: "vinisaac" |
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| Title: Re: God Exists!!!! |
14 Jan 2006 04:09:24 PM |
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Not really. He has left traces and He still speaks and He still works
miracles.
People who know Him know it for sure that He is real and unfortunately
He is not interested to prove Himself to those who don't want to
believe in Him.
Here is His method of revealing about Himself. He doesn't reveal
himself through other ways.
Luke 16:22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the
angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
Luke 16:23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and
saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me,
and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and
cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'
Luke 16:25 "But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you
received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he
is comforted and you are tormented.
Luke 16:26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great
gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor
can those from there pass to us.'
Luke 16:27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would
send him to my father's house,
Luke 16:28 'for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them,
lest they also come to this place of torment.'
Luke 16:29 "Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets;
let them hear them.'
Luke 16:30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them
from the dead, they will repent.'
Luke 16:31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the
prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the
dead.'"
Vinod Isaac
http://vinodisaac.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://jcsearch.com - your source of web search
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