| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Dorres T" |
| Date: |
27 Jan 2004 11:14:18 AM |
| Object: |
God-Hating Liberals Say "Jesus Never Lived!" |
God-Hating Liberals Say "Jesus Never Lived!"
NYC district denies birth of Jesus?
World Net Daily
In a dispute over display of holiday symbols, New York City schools
are allowing Jewish menorahs and Islamic crescents but barring
Christian nativity scenes, alleging the depiction of the birth of
Christ does not
represent a historical event.
In pleadings with a federal court in defense of the ban, New York City
lawyers asserted the "suggestion that a crèche is a historically
accurate representation of an event with secular significance is
wholly disingenuous."
The Jewish and Islamic symbols are allowed, the district says, because
they have a secular dimension, but the Christian symbols are "purely
religious."
Robert J. Muise, who will challenge the school policy at a federal
court hearing tomorrow in Brooklyn, told WorldNetDaily be believes
most Americans don't see it that way.
"The birth of Jesus is a historical event which serves as the basis
for celebration of Christmas," Muise stated. "It's of importance for
both Christians and non-Christians."
Muise's Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center filed a motion to
temporarily restrain the city from enforcing its ban on nativity
scenes. The center asserts New York's policy "promotes the Jewish and
Islamic faiths while conveying the impermissible message of
disapproval of Christianity in violation of the U.S. Constitution."
The Michigan group says one public-school principal issued a memo
encouraging teachers to bring to school "religious symbols" that
represent the Islamic and Jewish religions, but made no mention of
Christianity.
Jewish menorahs adorned the halls of the school as part of the
authorized displays, the More Center said, but students were not
allowed to make and similarly display nativity scenes
A parent who wrote a letter of complaint to her son's teacher received
a copy of the school's "Holiday Displays" policy in response.
Kate Ahlers, communications director for New York City's law
department, says schools can use things that are secular like
menorahs, stars and snowflakes, but the crèche is considered
religious.
"There is a separation of church and state that is part of the
Constitution," she claimed. "It's a clear belief that people try to
follow in schools and public office, and schools are saying they
adhere to that belief."
The point of schools, she added, "is not to debate religion; the point
of schools is to teach children."
The federal civil-rights lawsuit was filed on behalf of Andrea Skoros
and her two elementary-school children against the city of New York
and several school officials.
Skoros and her children are devout Roman Catholics.
"Can Christianity be erased from a public school?" Muse asked in a
statement. "Can 'Christ' be removed from Christmas? We will soon find
out."
--
Left-wing liberals are EVERYTHING they accuse the right of being. They
are mean, vicious, hateful, greedy, cold-hearted, selfish, intolerant,
bigoted and racist.
.
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| User: "Marc Satterwhite" |
|
| Title: Re: God-Hating Liberals Say "Jesus Never Lived!" |
27 Jan 2004 01:05:54 PM |
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Dorres T wrote:
God-Hating Liberals Say "Jesus Never Lived!"
NYC district denies birth of Jesus?
World Net Daily
In a dispute over display of holiday symbols, New York City schools
are allowing Jewish menorahs and Islamic crescents but barring
Christian nativity scenes, alleging the depiction of the birth of
Christ does not
represent a historical event.
Actually, there are a lot of scholars who dispute the
historicity of Jesus. Certainly his life is nowhere nearly as well
documented as that of any of the Roman emperors, for example.
Problems include the lack of any Roman records concerning
the census the allegedly took Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem
(and the illogicality of taxing people based on where they
were born, rather than where they lived is nowhere explained
in the Bible).
In pleadings with a federal court in defense of the ban, New York City
lawyers asserted the "suggestion that a crèche is a historically
accurate representation of an event with secular significance is
wholly disingenuous."
Perfectly true. Even if Jesus did live, there is no evidence at all of
when
he was born, or of such standard crèche characters as the three
wise men. There is no reasonable secular purpose to a crèche
display. You could argue for wreaths, or light displays maybe,
but not a crèche.
The Jewish and Islamic symbols are allowed, the district says, because
they have a secular dimension, but the Christian symbols are "purely
religious."
Here is where I disagree with the school policy. I think the Jewish and
Muslim symbols discussed are overtly religious, and should not be
displayed, either. I can think of occasions where temporary displays
of all these might be permissible (a display of world religious symbols,
for
example), but in general, no.
Robert J. Muise, who will challenge the school policy at a federal
court hearing tomorrow in Brooklyn, told WorldNetDaily be believes
most Americans don't see it that way.
Most Americans still apparently believe the Saddam Hussein had
something to do with 9/11. Many believe in astrology. A lot seem
to believe the John Edward can contact their dead relatives.
"The birth of Jesus is a historical event which serves as the basis
for celebration of Christmas," Muise stated. "It's of importance for
both Christians and non-Christians."
Its importance is not disputed. Its historicity is. While discussion
of the history and importance of Christianity are certainly well
within bounds for public schools, preferential display of
overtly religious symbols is not.
The solution, however, is to remove the menorahs and crescents.
Muise's Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center filed a motion to
temporarily restrain the city from enforcing its ban on nativity
scenes. The center asserts New York's policy "promotes the Jewish and
Islamic faiths while conveying the impermissible message of
disapproval of Christianity in violation of the U.S. Constitution."
Actually, I think here they might have a point. In the interests of
fairness, they should remove the menorahs and crescents, as well.
The Michigan group says one public-school principal issued a memo
encouraging teachers to bring to school "religious symbols" that
represent the Islamic and Jewish religions, but made no mention of
Christianity.
Jewish menorahs adorned the halls of the school as part of the
authorized displays, the More Center said, but students were not
allowed to make and similarly display nativity scenes
A parent who wrote a letter of complaint to her son's teacher received
a copy of the school's "Holiday Displays" policy in response.
Kate Ahlers, communications director for New York City's law
department, says schools can use things that are secular like
menorahs, stars and snowflakes, but the crèche is considered
religious.
The basic idea is reasonable. I don't see, however, how they can
characterize
the menorahs and crescents as similar to stars and snowflakes.
"There is a separation of church and state that is part of the
Constitution," she claimed. "It's a clear belief that people try to
follow in schools and public office, and schools are saying they
adhere to that belief."
The point of schools, she added, "is not to debate religion; the point
of schools is to teach children."
Perfectly correct.
The federal civil-rights lawsuit was filed on behalf of Andrea Skoros
and her two elementary-school children against the city of New York
and several school officials.
Skoros and her children are devout Roman Catholics.
"Can Christianity be erased from a public school?" Muse asked in a
statement. "Can 'Christ' be removed from Christmas? We will soon find
out."
No one is trying to erase Christianity from the public schools.
What people like myself wish is for religious neutrality on the
part of the public schools, and for people to quit trying to
use them as state-funded engines for evangelization.
Again, I believe they are partially correct in saying that
menorahs and crescents are also strongly religious symbols,
on a rough par with a crèche. But the correct solution
is not to allow the crèche, but to remove all overtly
religious displays from the school and for the school
to remain neutral on matters of religion.
Best, Marc
.
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| User: "None" |
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| Title: Re: God-Hating Liberals Say "Jesus Never Lived!" |
29 Jan 2004 04:49:58 AM |
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"Marc Satterwhite" <mtsatt01@athena.louisville.edu> wrote in message
news:4016B68F.AB5D5DD@athena.louisville.edu...
Even if Jesus did live, there is no evidence at all of
when
he was born,
Yes there is. Modern science deciphered that a long time ago. Based on the
theory of the north star leading the wisemen to a barn, assuming longitude,
latitude, time of night, etc., science dictates that if indeed there was a
birth, that it took place most probably sometime during the first two weeks
of March.
.
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| User: "black_ice" |
|
| Title: Re: God-Hating Liberals Say "Jesus Never Lived!" |
27 Jan 2004 11:32:39 AM |
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In article <b14b2ae.0401270914.14ac9c5e@posting.google.com>, Dorres T
<torresdxx@yahoo.com> wrote:
God-Hating Liberals Say "Jesus Never Lived!"
And you believe he was born in December and call yourself a
Christian........
Idiot.
NYC district denies birth of Jesus?
World Net Daily
In a dispute over display of holiday symbols, New York City schools
are allowing Jewish menorahs and Islamic crescents but barring
Christian nativity scenes, alleging the depiction of the birth of
Christ does not
represent a historical event.
In pleadings with a federal court in defense of the ban, New York City
lawyers asserted the "suggestion that a crèche is a historically
accurate representation of an event with secular significance is
wholly disingenuous."
The Jewish and Islamic symbols are allowed, the district says, because
they have a secular dimension, but the Christian symbols are "purely
religious."
Robert J. Muise, who will challenge the school policy at a federal
court hearing tomorrow in Brooklyn, told WorldNetDaily be believes
most Americans don't see it that way.
"The birth of Jesus is a historical event which serves as the basis
for celebration of Christmas," Muise stated. "It's of importance for
both Christians and non-Christians."
Muise's Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center filed a motion to
temporarily restrain the city from enforcing its ban on nativity
scenes. The center asserts New York's policy "promotes the Jewish and
Islamic faiths while conveying the impermissible message of
disapproval of Christianity in violation of the U.S. Constitution."
The Michigan group says one public-school principal issued a memo
encouraging teachers to bring to school "religious symbols" that
represent the Islamic and Jewish religions, but made no mention of
Christianity.
Jewish menorahs adorned the halls of the school as part of the
authorized displays, the More Center said, but students were not
allowed to make and similarly display nativity scenes
A parent who wrote a letter of complaint to her son's teacher received
a copy of the school's "Holiday Displays" policy in response.
Kate Ahlers, communications director for New York City's law
department, says schools can use things that are secular like
menorahs, stars and snowflakes, but the crèche is considered
religious.
"There is a separation of church and state that is part of the
Constitution," she claimed. "It's a clear belief that people try to
follow in schools and public office, and schools are saying they
adhere to that belief."
The point of schools, she added, "is not to debate religion; the point
of schools is to teach children."
The federal civil-rights lawsuit was filed on behalf of Andrea Skoros
and her two elementary-school children against the city of New York
and several school officials.
Skoros and her children are devout Roman Catholics.
"Can Christianity be erased from a public school?" Muse asked in a
statement. "Can 'Christ' be removed from Christmas? We will soon find
out."
--
"Send lawyers, guns and money
The sh*t has hit the fan", Warren Zevon
.
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