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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "J Young"
Date: 27 Aug 2007 09:39:17 PM
Object: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l'
http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=25161
'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' - U.S. bishops decry decision to promote
abortion
8/27/2007
Catholic Online
WASHINGTON (Catholic Online) - The recent decision of Amnesty International
to promote worldwide access to abortion services undermines the rights
organization's moral credibility and divides the global work to protect
human life and human dignity, said officials of the U.S. Catholic bishops'
conference.
In an Aug. 23 statement, Bishop William S. Skylstad of Spokane, Wash.,
president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, decried the change in
the organization's longstanding abortion-neutral position as divisive and an
affront to "people in many nations, cultures and religions who share a
consistent commitment to all human rights."
"The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops strongly protests the
recent action of AI's International Council to promote worldwide access to
abortion," Bishop Skylstad said. "This basic policy change undermines
Amnesty's longstanding moral credibility and unnecessarily diverts its
mission."
The organization's International Council approved the change in its abortion
stance at a meeting in Cocoyoc, Mexico, Aug. 11-17 as part of its Stop
Violence Against Women campaign.
The council passed the measure to "support the decriminalization of
abortion, to ensure women have access to health care when complications
arise from abortion, and to defend women's access to abortion, within
reasonable gestational limits, when their health or human rights are in
danger."
The bishop stressed that the belief that the human-rights organization's
policy change is "a compassionate response to women in difficult situations
of pregnancy . is a false compassion."
"True commitment to women's rights puts us in solidarity with women and
their unborn children. It does not pit one against the other but calls us to
advocate on behalf of both," he said.
The work of standing against the death penalty and "the crushing effects of
dehumanizing poverty and standing with "prisoners of conscience, refugees
and migrants and other oppressed peoples" must continue, Bishop Skylstad
said.
"The essential work of protecting human life and promoting human dignity
must carry on," he said. "But we will seek to do so in authentic ways,
working most closely with organizations who do not oppose the fundamental
right to life from conception to natural death."
"We call upon Amnesty International once again to act in accord with its
noblest principles, reconsider its error, and reverse its policy on
abortion," he said, noting that the bishops had held almost a year of
dialogue with leaders of the rights organization.
The director of planning and information for the USCCB Pro-Life Activities
Secretariat, Deirdre A. McQuade, said in an Aug. 24 statement, "Amnesty
International Sells Out," that the rights group's action "offers false hope
to women" proposing "violence to solve violence and discriminate against a
whole class of voiceless human beings: the unborn."
"Abortion provides no relief from the realities they face. It does nothing
to alleviate injustice," said McQuade, noting that "a strong pro-woman
stance would refuse to choose between mothers and their vulnerable
children."
She called on members of the rights organization to "prayerfully consider"
divorcing themselves from it and joining with an alternative group. Wrestle
with how God is "calling you to be authentically pro-justice and pro-life,"
she urged.
"God is 'bigger than Amnesty International and his plan for justice will not
be thwarted," she said.
A Catholic college in Australia and an English bishop have resigned from
Amnesty International within days after the human-rights organization
approved a policy to support efforts to decriminalize abortion throughout
the world.
Bishop Michael Evans of East Anglia, England, announced in an Aug. 18
statement that he was leaving Amnesty after 31 years of active membership,
while in an Aug. 20 statement, the Jesuit headmaster of St. Aloysius College
here confirmed that the school will sever its ties with Amnesty
International, noting the rights group new policy "explicitly excludes some
of the most vulnerable members of society - the 'unborn human.'"
While "many people will argue that we should remain inside Amnesty because
of the overwhelming good that it does," Jesuit Father Chris Middleton said
the college leadership believes that "we have no choice but to leave
Amnesty."
"This policy explicitly excludes some of the most vulnerable members of
society - the 'unborn human' - from its campaigns for human rights. To my
mind this goes right to the core of Amnesty as a human-rights organization
and as a body that gives primacy to conscience," he said. "It strikes
against the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of the Child which
states that every child "needs special safeguards and care, including legal
protection, before as well as after birth."
Father Middleton pointed to the 1961 religious foundations of Amnesty
International and its Catholic founder Peter Benenson being "influenced by
his religious experience."
"It is striking how many of the key early figures of Amnesty had strong
religious connections - Quaker, Jewish, Protestant and Catholic. Far from
being a secular project one could argue that Amnesty itself has its origins
in the religious commitment to justice," the Jesuit priest said. "It seems
that increasingly our society is developing collective amnesia about the
influence people of faith have had in shaping much of our modern world."
Amnesty International "had an almost unique position in the depth of its
membership in being able to attract conservative and liberal, religious and
secular support, for issues around freedom of conscience and political
rights," Father Middleton said, noting that its policy decision "means that
for many people of faith, membership will no longer be possible."
"The big tent that is Amnesty has become smaller and it runs the risk of
becoming just another secular left voice," he added.
Bishop Evans said that Amnesty International's "regrettable decision" will
likely divide its membership and "thereby undermine its vital work."
"Among all human rights, the right to life is fundamental," the bishop said,
adding that he "very regretfully . will be ending my 31-year-membership" in
the group. He noted his participation in the rights organization's British
Section Council and its Religious Bodies Liaison Panel.
He said he remains "deeply committed to Amnesty's original mandate: to work
for freedom for prisoners of conscience, an end to torture and the death
penalty, and fair trials for all."
But, he added, "commitment to work to protect the human can only be deeply
compromised by any support for access to abortion."
While the "Catholic Church has no desire for women who have been through the
trauma of abortion to be punished," he stressed that "our proper indignation
regarding pervasive violence against women should not cloud our judgment
about our duty to protect the most vulnerable and defenseless form of human
life."
"The Catholic Church shares Amnesty's strong commitment to oppose violence
against women (for example, rape, sexual assault and incest), but such
appalling violence must not be answered by violence against the most
vulnerable and defenseless form of human life in a woman's womb," he said.
"But there is no human right to access to abortion, and Amnesty should not
involve itself even in such extreme cases."
"Amnesty opposes torture and the death penalty under all circumstances,
however dire the situation; the same should be true for Amnesty's mandate to
'protect the human' - before as well as after birth," the bishop said. "To
allow for the use of torture in just one extreme situation (e.g. a terrorist
threat) would compromise Amnesty's absolute rejection of torture. To support
access to abortion even in dire situations compromises Amnesty's mandate to
'protect the human.'"
--
J Young
younginsights@aol.com
.

User: "Enkidu"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 29 Aug 2007 08:57:13 AM
"J Young" <younginsights@aol.com> wrote in
news:fb022101fpp@news5.newsguy.com:

'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' - U.S. bishops decry decision to
promote abortion

But he hides better.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA

Theists claim that there is a god; atheists do not. Religionists often
challenge atheists to prove that there is no god; but this misses the
point. Atheists claim god is unproved, not disproved. In any argument,
the burden of proof is on the one making the claim.
-Dan Barker
.

User: "Doc Smartass"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 28 Aug 2007 06:07:39 PM
"J Young" <younginsights@aol.com> wrote in
news:fb022101fpp@news5.newsguy.com:

Subject: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l'

....it's just that his PR guys suck.
--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Heckling
aa # 1939
No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices.
--Edward R. Murrow
.

User: ""

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 27 Aug 2007 11:27:12 PM
On 28 Aug., 04:39, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=25161

'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' - U.S. bishops decry decision to promote
abortion

And we, atheists, care about what US bishops say in which way,
exactly?
Besides, Amnesty International has done more for the planet than your
religion. So, once again, christians are talking through their asses.
.

User: "Paul Duca"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 01 Sep 2007 05:54:22 PM
On Aug 27, 10:39 pm, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:



'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' -

Which makes Him too important to do anything for folks like J Young...
Paul
.

User: "Conspiracy of Doves"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 27 Aug 2007 10:22:36 PM
On Aug 27, 10:39 pm, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=25161

'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' - U.S. bishops decry decision to promote
abortion

8/27/2007
Catholic Online

Amnesty International can be proven to exist. The same can't be said
for your god, or any god for that matter.
.

User: ""

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 29 Aug 2007 05:38:10 AM
On Aug 27, 10:39 pm, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=25161

'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' - U.S. bishops decry decision to promote
abortion

Amnesty Int'l and the Roman Catholic hierarchy are
both phonies. AI talks big but does little or nothing
that might be judged as positive. The RC hierarchy
thinks they are above the law and they are stalling
around trying to avoid paying the penalties for their
crimes. From my point of view they are a bunch of
pagan idol worshipers.

8/27/2007
Catholic Online

WASHINGTON (Catholic Online) - The recent decision of Amnesty International
to promote worldwide access to abortion services undermines the rights
organization's moral credibility and divides the global work to protect
human life and human dignity, said officials of the U.S. Catholic bishops'
conference.

In an Aug. 23 statement, Bishop William S. Skylstad of Spokane, Wash.,
president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, decried the change in
the organization's longstanding abortion-neutral position as divisive and an
affront to "people in many nations, cultures and religions who share a
consistent commitment to all human rights."

Just a bunch of double talk in an effort to be controlling.
.

User: "Gwenyth Bennet"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 28 Aug 2007 03:10:11 PM
On Aug 27, 9:39 pm, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=25161

'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' - U.S. bishops decry decision to promote
abortion

So?
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 28 Aug 2007 09:31:45 PM
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:10:11 -0000, Gwenyth Bennet
<bennetwithonet@gmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 27, 9:39 pm, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=25161

'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' - U.S. bishops decry decision to promote
abortion


So?

We play little violins for them?
.
User: "Gwenyth Bennet"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 29 Aug 2007 06:23:37 AM
On Aug 28, 9:31 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:10:11 -0000, Gwenyth Bennet

<bennetwitho...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 27, 9:39 pm, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=25161


'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' - U.S. bishops decry decision to promote
abortion


So?


We play little violins for them?

My "so" remark has rendered me 538 negative marks against my Google
rating! (I think IBen/JYoung/Bobncarole didn't appreciate my succint
response. Neither will Google appreciate his blatant abuse of their
service.)
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 29 Aug 2007 10:21:29 AM
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:23:37 -0700, Gwenyth Bennet
<bennetwithonet@gmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 28, 9:31 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:10:11 -0000, Gwenyth Bennet

<bennetwitho...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 27, 9:39 pm, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=25161


'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' - U.S. bishops decry decision to promote
abortion


So?


We play little violins for them?


My "so" remark has rendered me 538 negative marks against my Google
rating!

But WE still love you.

(I think IBen/JYoung/Bobncarole didn't appreciate my succint
response.

I don't usually pay attention to the opinions of trees, and Jon has
far to go to reach the intelligence of a 2 X 4.
.




User: "Nosterill"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 28 Aug 2007 04:26:04 AM
On Aug 28, 3:39 am, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=25161

'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l'

But considerably less tangible

- U.S. bishops decry decision to promote
abortion

8/27/2007
Catholic Online

WASHINGTON (Catholic Online) - The recent decision of Amnesty International
to promote worldwide access to abortion services undermines the rights
organization's moral credibility and divides the global work to protect
human life and human dignity, said officials of the U.S. Catholic bishops'
conference.

In an Aug. 23 statement, Bishop William S. Skylstad of Spokane, Wash.,
president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, decried the change in
the organization's longstanding abortion-neutral position as divisive and an
affront to "people in many nations, cultures and religions who share a
consistent commitment to all human rights."

The Catholic church respected an abortion-neutral position? Since when?
.
User: "•R L Measures"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 28 Aug 2007 05:17:36 AM
In article <1188293164.775004.123500@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Nosterill <fladgate@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 28, 3:39 am, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=25161

'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l'


But considerably less tangible

- U.S. bishops decry decision to promote
abortion

8/27/2007
Catholic Online

WASHINGTON (Catholic Online) - The recent decision of Amnesty International
to promote worldwide access to abortion services undermines the rights
organization's moral credibility and divides the global work to protect
human life and human dignity, said officials of the U.S. Catholic bishops'
conference.

In an Aug. 23 statement, Bishop William S. Skylstad of Spokane, Wash.,
president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, decried the change in
the organization's longstanding abortion-neutral position as divisive and an
affront to "people in many nations, cultures and religions who share a
consistent commitment to all human rights."


The Catholic church respected an abortion-neutral position? Since when?

• If altar-boys could become pregnant from being boinked by priests,
abortion would be a Sacrament.
.


User: "MarkA"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 28 Aug 2007 07:06:13 AM
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:39:17 -0400, J Young wrote:

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=25161





'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' - U.S. bishops decry decision to promote
abortion

8/27/2007
Catholic Online

WASHINGTON (Catholic Online) - The recent decision of Amnesty International
to promote worldwide access to abortion services undermines the rights
organization's moral credibility and divides the global work to protect
human life and human dignity, said officials of the U.S. Catholic bishops'
conference.

In an Aug. 23 statement, Bishop William S. Skylstad of Spokane, Wash.,
president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, decried the change in
the organization's longstanding abortion-neutral position as divisive and an
affront to "people in many nations, cultures and religions who share a
consistent commitment to all human rights."

"The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops strongly protests the
recent action of AI's International Council to promote worldwide access to
abortion," Bishop Skylstad said. "This basic policy change undermines
Amnesty's longstanding moral credibility and unnecessarily diverts its
mission."

The organization's International Council approved the change in its abortion
stance at a meeting in Cocoyoc, Mexico, Aug. 11-17 as part of its Stop
Violence Against Women campaign.

The council passed the measure to "support the decriminalization of
abortion, to ensure women have access to health care when complications
arise from abortion, and to defend women's access to abortion, within
reasonable gestational limits, when their health or human rights are in
danger."

This is "promoting worldwide access to abortion?" By "ensuring that women
have access to health care," including abortion, when their "health ... is
in danger?"

The bishop stressed that the belief that the human-rights organization's
policy change is "a compassionate response to women in difficult situations
of pregnancy . is a false compassion."

"True commitment to women's rights puts us in solidarity with women and
their unborn children. It does not pit one against the other but calls us to
advocate on behalf of both," he said.

That's nice fluffy ***** that means absolutely nothing.

The work of standing against the death penalty and "the crushing effects of
dehumanizing poverty and standing with "prisoners of conscience, refugees
and migrants and other oppressed peoples" must continue, Bishop Skylstad
said.

"The essential work of protecting human life and promoting human dignity
must carry on," he said. "But we will seek to do so in authentic ways,
working most closely with organizations who do not oppose the fundamental
right to life from conception to natural death."

"We call upon Amnesty International once again to act in accord with its
noblest principles, reconsider its error, and reverse its policy on
abortion," he said, noting that the bishops had held almost a year of
dialogue with leaders of the rights organization.

The director of planning and information for the USCCB Pro-Life Activities
Secretariat, Deirdre A. McQuade, said in an Aug. 24 statement, "Amnesty
International Sells Out," that the rights group's action "offers false hope
to women" proposing "violence to solve violence and discriminate against a
whole class of voiceless human beings: the unborn."

"Abortion provides no relief from the realities they face. It does nothing
to alleviate injustice," said McQuade, noting that "a strong pro-woman
stance would refuse to choose between mothers and their vulnerable
children."

She called on members of the rights organization to "prayerfully consider"
divorcing themselves from it and joining with an alternative group. Wrestle
with how God is "calling you to be authentically pro-justice and pro-life,"
she urged.

"God is 'bigger than Amnesty International and his plan for justice will not
be thwarted," she said.

A Catholic college in Australia and an English bishop have resigned from
Amnesty International within days after the human-rights organization
approved a policy to support efforts to decriminalize abortion throughout
the world.

What a tragic loss.

Bishop Michael Evans of East Anglia, England, announced in an Aug. 18
statement that he was leaving Amnesty after 31 years of active membership,
while in an Aug. 20 statement, the Jesuit headmaster of St. Aloysius College
here confirmed that the school will sever its ties with Amnesty
International, noting the rights group new policy "explicitly excludes some
of the most vulnerable members of society - the 'unborn human.'"

While "many people will argue that we should remain inside Amnesty because
of the overwhelming good that it does," Jesuit Father Chris Middleton said
the college leadership believes that "we have no choice but to leave
Amnesty."

"This policy explicitly excludes some of the most vulnerable members of
society - the 'unborn human' - from its campaigns for human rights. To my
mind this goes right to the core of Amnesty as a human-rights organization
and as a body that gives primacy to conscience," he said. "It strikes
against the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of the Child which
states that every child "needs special safeguards and care, including legal
protection, before as well as after birth."

Father Middleton pointed to the 1961 religious foundations of Amnesty
International and its Catholic founder Peter Benenson being "influenced by
his religious experience."

"It is striking how many of the key early figures of Amnesty had strong
religious connections - Quaker, Jewish, Protestant and Catholic. Far from
being a secular project one could argue that Amnesty itself has its origins
in the religious commitment to justice," the Jesuit priest said. "It seems
that increasingly our society is developing collective amnesia about the
influence people of faith have had in shaping much of our modern world."

Amnesty International "had an almost unique position in the depth of its
membership in being able to attract conservative and liberal, religious and
secular support, for issues around freedom of conscience and political
rights," Father Middleton said, noting that its policy decision "means that
for many people of faith, membership will no longer be possible."

"The big tent that is Amnesty has become smaller and it runs the risk of
becoming just another secular left voice," he added.

Bishop Evans said that Amnesty International's "regrettable decision" will
likely divide its membership and "thereby undermine its vital work."

"Among all human rights, the right to life is fundamental," the bishop said,
adding that he "very regretfully . will be ending my 31-year-membership" in
the group. He noted his participation in the rights organization's British
Section Council and its Religious Bodies Liaison Panel.

He said he remains "deeply committed to Amnesty's original mandate: to work
for freedom for prisoners of conscience, an end to torture and the death
penalty, and fair trials for all."

But, he added, "commitment to work to protect the human can only be deeply
compromised by any support for access to abortion."

While the "Catholic Church has no desire for women who have been through the
trauma of abortion to be punished," he stressed that "our proper indignation
regarding pervasive violence against women should not cloud our judgment
about our duty to protect the most vulnerable and defenseless form of human
life."

"The Catholic Church shares Amnesty's strong commitment to oppose violence
against women (for example, rape, sexual assault and incest), but such
appalling violence must not be answered by violence against the most
vulnerable and defenseless form of human life in a woman's womb," he said.
"But there is no human right to access to abortion, and Amnesty should not
involve itself even in such extreme cases."

"Amnesty opposes torture and the death penalty under all circumstances,
however dire the situation; the same should be true for Amnesty's mandate to
'protect the human' - before as well as after birth," the bishop said. "To
allow for the use of torture in just one extreme situation (e.g. a terrorist
threat) would compromise Amnesty's absolute rejection of torture. To support
access to abortion even in dire situations compromises Amnesty's mandate to
'protect the human.'"

--
MarkA
(My OTHER sig line is clever)
.
User: "Brian E. Clark"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 28 Aug 2007 02:15:34 PM
In article <pan.2007.08.28.12.06.11.877805
@nowhere.com>, MarkA said...

"True commitment to women's rights puts us in
solidarity with women and their unborn children.
It does not pit one against the other but calls
us to advocate on behalf of both," he said.


That's nice fluffy ***** that means absolutely nothing.

I wonder. Between the lines can be read, "The
church, not women themselves, will decide what
'women's rights' should mean, and although the
church stands opposed to the wishes of billions
of women worldwide, the church will still insist
that it is 'in solidarity' with them."
It reminds me of a Baptist organization tract I
read recently: the author claimed that by working
to ensure that women lived their lives as God
intended (i.e., pregnant and subservient), the
group represented the "real" women's liberation
movement.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 28 Aug 2007 09:28:54 PM
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:15:34 -0400, Brian E. Clark
<reply@newsgroup.only.please> wrote:

It reminds me of a Baptist organization tract I
read recently: the author claimed that by working
to ensure that women lived their lives as God
intended (i.e., pregnant and subservient), the
group represented the "real" women's liberation
movement.

They were liberated from freedom to live as slaves.
.

User: "MarkA"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 28 Aug 2007 02:40:46 PM
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:15:34 -0400, Brian E. Clark wrote:

In article <pan.2007.08.28.12.06.11.877805
@nowhere.com>, MarkA said...

"True commitment to women's rights puts us in
solidarity with women and their unborn children.
It does not pit one against the other but calls
us to advocate on behalf of both," he said.


That's nice fluffy ***** that means absolutely nothing.


I wonder. Between the lines can be read, "The
church, not women themselves, will decide what
'women's rights' should mean, and although the
church stands opposed to the wishes of billions
of women worldwide, the church will still insist
that it is 'in solidarity' with them."

It reminds me of a Baptist organization tract I
read recently: the author claimed that by working
to ensure that women lived their lives as God
intended (i.e., pregnant and subservient), the
group represented the "real" women's liberation
movement.

I was thinking more along the lines that advocating for both mother and
unborn child sounds all well and good, but what happens when the mother
and unborn child are in conflict, as happens when the unborn child wants
to use the mother's circulatory system, endocrine system, respiratory
system, etc, and the mother doesn't want to share them?
--
MarkA
(My OTHER sig line is clever)
.



User: "Spartakus"

Title: Re: 'God is bigger than Amnesty Int'l' 27 Aug 2007 10:44:41 PM
Shorter Catholics Online:
"My sky daddy can beat up your sky daddy."
.


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