| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Gregory Gadow" |
| Date: |
01 Sep 2004 11:03:22 AM |
| Object: |
God is not much of an engineer |
Why We Fall Apart
Engineering's reliability theory explains human aging
By Leonid Gavrilov & Natalia Gavrilova
CHILDHOOD IS A SPECIAL TIME INDEED. If only we could maintain our body
functions as they are at age 10, we could expect to live about 5000
years on average. Unfortunately, from age 11 on, it's all downhill!
The problem is that our bodies deteriorate with age. For most of our
lives, the risk of death is increasing exponentially, doubling every
eight years. So, why do we fall apart, and what can we do about it?
Many scientists now believe that, for the first time in human history,
we have developed a sophisticated enough understanding of the nature of
human aging to begin seriously planning ways to defeat it. These
scientists are working from a simple but compelling notion: the body,
far from being a perfect creation, is a failure-prone, defect-ridden
machine formed through the stochastic process of biological evolution.
The article continues at
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/sep04/0904age.html
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[W]e have never held that moral disapproval, without any other asserted
state interest, is a sufficient rationale under the Equal Protection
Clause to justify a law that discriminates among groups of persons."
- Sandra Day O`Conner, _Lawrence v Texas_
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=02-102
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
06 Sep 2004 05:47:18 PM |
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On 6 Sep 2004 13:01:34 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
Nope, you have to repent of your sins and ask for
forgiveness for the sins you yourself committed.
I haven't commited any sins.
Only Jesus accomplished that feat.
Of course, if you wanted to convince me
that I have, then you'd have to provide **EVIDENCE** (as opposed to
blind personal belief) that:
I'm not going to tell you that you have. That's between you and God, not you and me.
Or you can have your god contact me direct.
Oh, he's there at your side 24/7. All you have to do is turn to him.
Nope, that's your atheist theology talking now.
And you don't even have any idea what
you're talking about.
Well it's great to hear that because all I'm doing here is repeating
what you've been saying. Don't believe me? Here's a quote of yours
from the very message to which I'm responding: "Well, it's your
funeral. Enjoy it if you can, for you will surely stand before God to
answer for and be judged for the things you did while in the flesh."
That's a guarantee.
Are you now saying that after we're judged we *WON'T* rot in Hell if
we're found not worthy?
I have no idea what will happen to you. That's between you and God.
What's praying for forgiveness if it isn't begging, moron?
Acknowledging your sinfulness.
What's
desperately asking this mythical Jesus to come into your life and save
you if it's not begging?
You'd do as much for your dog if you hurt it.
But there never was a Christ. Didn't you grasp that fact yet?
He was seen and experienced in person by hundreds.
And your **EVIDENCE** for this is? Oh that's right - the *****
Bible for which you have never, ever, ever, ever, offered a shred of
independent support. Get a clue, idiot.
No, bud, 500+ people experienced the death and resurrection of Christ. They passed this
truthful experience on, and it as an event has grown ever since for 2000 years now. In
fact, 2 billion people alive today believe.
Where are these hundreds of testimonials?
Billions of believers.
Because all I can see in
the Bible is four contradictory "gospels" written by anonymous people,
all of them with a different axe to grind, two of which are
demonstrably copies of a third. You call *all of this ******
evidence? Once again you have more than adequately demonstrated your
utter cluelessness as to what evidence is.
I'm not even bringing the bible into it. I'm bringing the eye witnesses and their
testimonies.
Do you believe in the Egyptian gods? In the Roman gods? In the
ancient Greek gods? Why not?
No, because not a one ever so much as lifted one finger.
They were material objects of worship, not a live man of worship.
God is one, bud.
One what? One big fat myth? Where's your **EVIDENCE** (as opposed to
blind belief) for the existence of this god?
He lived and breathed.
You've only demonstrated that you have no idea what the bible says.
Then it ought to be easy for you to refute what I've been saying, and
here you are flapping your spittle-soaked lips helplessly, message
after message.
The bible doesn't discuss zeus.
You're not up to debating what I've said; instead, you run away
repeatedly, desperately trying to convince yourself that I haven't
said anything.
You haven't - not so much as one point made.
You're a hypocrite and you contradict every other thing you say.
I keep repeating the same truth. I can't therefore contradict myself.
We're all invited. But some of you say "no thanks".
Answer the question, coward. The issue here is not whether we're all
invited.
Yes, we are all invited.
I've already demonstrated that you lie about this - we're
not all invited as the Bible makes crystal clear:
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not
into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans
enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
(Mat 10: 5,6)
That was a specific instruction to go only to the lost sheep of Israel, headed by James if
I remember right (I do of course). Peter was selected by God to preach to the Gentiles.
Acts 15:7.
So in Jesus' own words, we Gentiles are not invited.
Sure you were - see above..
And again in Mat 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but
unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"
And Peter to the gentiles.
So if you aren't of the house of Israel, in Jesus' own words, he was
not sent to talk to you and neither did he send his disciples to reach
you. Get it now? Now who knows the Bible and who doesn't, you blind,
arrogant *****?
Me.
And in Revelation: "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor
the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their
foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and
there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the
tribes of the children of Israel" (Rev 7:3,4)
144,000: 12,000 of each of the 12 tribes of Israel.
Can you get that through your dumb skull? But I'm not debating this
issue of who gets called here. The issue that I've repeatedly
challenged you on here and from which you've repeatedly run away is
not whether we're invited but **WHY ARE WE ALL INVITED WHEN GOD
ALREADY KNOWS WHICH ONES WILL BE CHOSEN**?
Yes, and all peoples everywhere originate from one of the 12 tribes, so you are included.
And now the fun part. Peoples of those early times used numbers for their relative
values, not their absolute values. Three, as in the Holy Trinity, is representative of
completeness. Twelve is a reoccurring theme as in 12 inches/foot, 12 tribes, 12 months.
Forty is found all over the place, forty days (lent) wandering in the desert, Christ
ascended 40 days after he rose from the dead, 40 days of the Easter season, etc.
So the 144,000 is indicative of very large numbers of people in heaven.
Can you grasp that?
If you were throwing a party and you could only
accommodate 12 people and you knew which 12 you were going to invite,
and you wanted only those 12, would you invite 50 just so you could
turn away 38 of them at the door? Yeah, if you were a *****. So what
is it? Is god a ***** or is god *not* omniscient?
Yet all are invited. That's the point.
Nope, that statement means that he knows you yourself
elected to turn down his invitation.
Not me - I fall all over myself accepting the invitation.
It makes no difference what I do - the register is already written.
The register is infinitely large in size. Your invitation is all made out. All you have
to do is accept.
Those who will be saved will be saved and those who will not will not.
Those who are not turned down the invitation.
It makes not a jot of difference what any of us does. Get it now?
You're wrong.
And you think there's free will? What a complete imbecile you are.
In your last message you already admitted that I don't have to do
anything!
Well, you do have to say yes. And you don't even have to do it yourself - a parent or
friend can do it for you if you can't.
That's a yes from you. And after that, all you still have to do is continue to say yes.
Now how much easier can it be?
We are all invited, but some of us will say no, like you but not me.
God already knows who is chosen and so it is irrelevant what any of us
does. Is any of this getting through your dumb-cluck skull?
What God already knows is whether you will finally elect to accept the invitation, or turn
it down. He doesn't interfere with your decision, which is yours and only yours to make.
Or you can have your god contact me direct.
He's standing next to you right now.
As I've tediously explained over and endlessly over again to you (an
explanation which you've never refuted), there is no god, no afterlife
and nothing to worry about.
You said it, but you never offered any reason to believe it.
Well you're too congenitally stupid to grasp this, but the reason to
believe it is that there isn't an iota of evidence to believe
otherwise.
Correction, there isn't an iota of evidence to suggest it isn't true.
If I'm right, why would I descent into hell?
If you read what's written, dipshit, you'll see that what I said was
"descend" not "descent", and here are my actual words: "descend into
the real hell of spending the tedious, mindless, soul-destroying
eternity with this god of yours."
And I said it's eternity for you and me one way or the other - sharing in the glory of God
for all eternity, or sharing in mindless loneliness for all eternity. For God is all
love, and therefore hell is no love at all - no love of God, no love of self, no love of
family, no love of friend, no love of anything. Just an eternity without love.
I can drag you kicking and screaming to the water, but I can't make you drink. You have
to say yes to yourself.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
07 Sep 2004 10:28:11 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<junpj0divooo7qpgmhj9loof1ev9vjhrtu@4ax.com>...
I haven't commited any sins.
Only Jesus accomplished that feat.
Well you'd have to establish that there even was a Jesus to make a
statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED OF
EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your hopelessly
clogged-up excuse for a brain?
I'm not going to tell you that you have. That's between
you and God, not you and me.
Well you'd have to establish that there even is or ever was a god to
make a statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED
OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your hopelessly
clogged-up excuse for a brain?
Or you can have your god contact me direct.
Oh, he's there at your side 24/7. All you have to do is turn to him.
Well you'd have to establish that there even is or ever was a god to
make a statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED
OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your hopelessly
clogged-up excuse for a brain?
Nope, that's your atheist theology talking now.
Atheist theology. ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Tell me another one.
You're a riot.
And you don't even have any idea what
you're talking about.
Well it's great to hear that because all I'm doing here is repeating
what you've been saying. Don't believe me? Here's a quote of yours
from the very message to which I'm responding: "Well, it's your
funeral. Enjoy it if you can, for you will surely stand before God to
answer for and be judged for the things you did while in the flesh."
That's a guarantee.
Well you'd have to establish that there even is or ever was a god to
make a statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED
OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your hopelessly
clogged-up excuse for a brain?
And once again note that I've walked all over you with you own words
and you cannot offer a thing in your defense. You lose, Loser.
Whupped your ***** with your own words. LoL!
Are you now saying that after we're judged we *WON'T* rot in Hell if
we're found not worthy?
I have no idea what will happen to you. That's between you and God.
Well you'd have to establish that there even is or ever was a god to
make a statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED
OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your hopelessly
clogged-up excuse for a brain?
And I note that yet another of your lies is revealed. After all of
the messages you've posted telling people they're going to suffer and
be miserable and be sorry, here you are finally admitting the truth -
you don't know the cube root of diddly-squat.
What's praying for forgiveness if it isn't begging, moron?
Acknowledging your sinfulness.
And who defines what the sins are? God! And who do we have to beg
for forgiveness from? God! QED. Get it now? Why do you think
people pray on their knees? Why does the word "Islam" mean
"submission"? When are you going to get an education?
What's
desperately asking this mythical Jesus to come into your life and save
you if it's not begging?
You'd do as much for your dog if you hurt it.
I'd help my dog without having to be begged or even asked. I wouldn't
put it through some farcical jumped up bullhsit test before I would
love it, and I would not knowingly let it suffer. Thanks for helping
me prove that I'm better than your god.
Now answer the question butthead. Just kidding - I know you can't
answer serious questions which is why you change the subject, respond
with a non-sequitur or simply do what you do best - run away from the
thread.
But there never was a Christ. Didn't you grasp that fact yet?
No, bud, 500+ people experienced the death and resurrection of Christ.
Well you'd have to establish that there ever was a Christ to make a
statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED OF
EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your cess-pool
excuse for a brain?
You'd have to establish who these four anonymous gospel authors were,
and what their motives were and what the likelihood is of them simply
lying. Because you do not have 500+ witnesses, moron, you have four
anonymous people who **SAY** there were all these witnesses, and every
one of these people has an axe to grind and at least two of them
copied from a third. Now try again.
They passed this truthful experience on,
Well you'd have to establish that there ever was a Christ to make a
statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED OF
EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your hopelessly
clogged-up excuse for a brain?
Where are these hundreds of testimonials?
Billions of believers.
I ask where the hundreds of testimonials are and your stupid-*****
response is "Billions of believers."? You truly are stupid to the
core, aren't you? Let me spell yet another thing out for you yet
another time:
Where are the written testimonials from all those individuals you say
claim to have seen **JESUS ALIVE**, dipshit? Do you have those or do
you simply have four contradictory and nonsensical fables, two of
which are copies of one of the others, where some anonymous authors do
nothing more than **SAY** there were witnesses?
How many different ways at different times do I endlessly have to
repeat the same tedious questions in order to get your hopelessly
clogged-up brain to even present a facsimile of minimal functionality
without you avoiding answering, running away from the thread, or
responding with a complete non-sequitur, *****?
I'm not even bringing the bible into it.
Then where is your testimony that there was a Jesus, imbecile? You
cannot live without the Bible. The Bible is your be-all and end-all.
It's the only thing you have and it's worthless. Get it now?
I'm bringing the eye witnesses and their testimonies.
You're not bringing the Bible into it but you're bringing the
eye-witnesses and their testimonies? Where are they, then? Do you
have them? Can you point me to them? Where are these people? Are
they still alive? Can I talk to them? Do you have written, signed
afadavits from each and every one of them?
Or do you simply have four contradictory and nonsensical fables, two
of which are copies of one of the others, where some anonymous authors
do nothing more than **SAY** there were witnesses, which is also known
as "THE BIBLE" you lying, hypocritical piece of trash?
Do you believe in the Egyptian gods? In the Roman gods? In the
ancient Greek gods? Why not?
No, because not a one ever so much as lifted one finger.
Yet millions worshipped them. Millions believed in them. Temples
were built to them. People lived their lives as devoted to them as
you are to your invention. They believed as strongly as you do. They
were as convinced by the "evidence" as you are. They were no
different in any way, shape, or form, from you. Are you saying that
none of this eye-witness testimony of *theirs* is of any value?
Because the minute you do, you also dismiss the same "evidence" you're
trying to offer in favor of your god and Jesus inventions.
They were material objects of worship, not a live man of worship.
They had every bit as much evidence as you can claim for your useless
myths. Prove me wrong. Demonstrate, with supported argument, that
you have more evidence for your gods than the Egyptians or the Romans
or the Greeks had for their gods.
God is one, bud.
One what? One big fat myth? Where's your **EVIDENCE** (as opposed to
blind belief) for the existence of this god?
He lived and breathed.
I ask for **EVIDENCE** and once again the Internet's biggest moron
offers clueless blind belief! How predictable.
Well you'd have to establish that there even is or ever was a god to
make a statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED
OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your hopelessly
clogged-up excuse for a brain?
You've only demonstrated that you have no idea what the bible says.
Then it ought to be easy for you to refute what I've been saying, and
here you are flapping your spittle-soaked lips helplessly, message
after message.
The bible doesn't discuss zeus.
This from the hypocritical liar who said (I quote): "I'm not even
bringing the bible into it." just a few lines ago? Are you aware that
you've just vindicated every single thing I've ever said about you?
You're not up to debating what I've said; instead, you run away
repeatedly, desperately trying to convince yourself that I haven't
said anything.
You haven't - not so much as one point made.
Yet here you are running in circles, flapping your lips like a
headless chicken flaps its wings, desperately trying to keep up with
me. You are so blind it's pathetic. Let me reiterate the points I've
made so that even your hopelessly clogged-up excuse for a brain can
register them:
1. You need to establish, with independent **EVIDENCE** (that is,
according to Webster's online dictionary at www.dictionary.com: "A
thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment" and not
simply your blind unsupported beliefs) that there was a god. So far,
**YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**!
Or admit that you cannot offer independent evidence that there is a
god. Failure to provide such evidence will be an admission that you
are, at best, a gullible blind-faith believer, and at worst, a liar or
the lowest kind.
2. You need to establish, with independent **EVIDENCE** (that is,
according to Webster's online dictionary at www.dictionary.com: "A
thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment" and not
simply your blind unsupported beliefs) that there was a Jesus. So
far, **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR
CONTENTION**! Or admit that you cannot offer independent evidence
that there was a Jesus, miracle-working son of some god. Failure to
provide such evidence will be an admission that you are, at best, a
gullible blind-faith believer, and at worst, a liar or the lowest
kind.
3. You need to establish that the Bible has *independent verifiable
support* **NOT** for its historical stories, but for its *stories
about a god*:
3.a) Creating the universe - or admit you cannot.
3.b) Interacting with humanity - or admit you cannot.
3.c) Hosting an afterlife - or admit you cannot.
3.d) Allowing a hell - or admit you cannot.
3.e) judging who goes to which of c and d above - or admit you
cannot.
Failure to provide such evidence will be an admission that you are, at
best, a gullible blind-faith believer, and at worst, a liar or the
lowest kind.
4. Offer supported argument that praying isn't begging given that it
is most often done on the knees and the entire islamic religion, which
by all accounts worships the same god as you do, is based on a word
that means "submission" - or admit you cannot. Failure to provide
such evidence will be an admission that you are, at best, a gullible
blind-faith believer, and at worst, a liar or the lowest kind.
5. Offer supported argument, independent of the Bible, that this
Jesus was the son of some god - or admit you cannot. Failure to
provide such evidence will be an admission that you are, at best, a
gullible blind-faith believer, and at worst, a liar or the lowest
kind.
6. Offer supported argument, independent of the Bible, that this
Jesus worked miracles - or admit you cannot. Failure to provide such
evidence will be an admission that you are, at best, a gullible
blind-faith believer, and at worst, a liar or the lowest kind.
7. Offer supported argument, independent of the Bible, that this
Jesus was crucifed - or admit you cannot. Failure to provide such
evidence will be an admission that you are, at best, a gullible
blind-faith believer, and at worst, a liar or the lowest kind.
8. Offer supported argument, independent of the Bible, that this
Jesus rose from the dead - or admit you cannot. Failure to provide
such evidence will be an admission that you are, at best, a gullible
blind-faith believer, and at worst, a liar or the lowest kind.
9. Offer supported argument, independent of the Bible, that 500+
people personally witnessed and testified to the death and
resurrection of Christ. Give each of their names and produce the
testimony or afadavit of each person - or admit you cannot. Failure
to provide such evidence will be an admission that you are, at best, a
gullible blind-faith believer, and at worst, a liar or the lowest
kind.
10. Demonstrate, with supported argument, that you have more evidence
for your gods than the Egyptians or the Romans or the Greeks had for
their gods. Failure to provide such evidence will be an admission
that you are, at best, a gullible blind-faith believer, and at worst,
a liar or the lowest kind.
Not so much as one point made? I count ten right here and this does
not include the recent flood debate you begged for and then ran away
from, or the previous debate challenge you never took up, or the 45
questions you ran away from regarding your so-called "evidence" for a
god. That enough for you to be going on with, Duped?
You're a hypocrite and you contradict every other thing you say.
I keep repeating the same truth. I can't therefore contradict myself.
Well the evidence shows otherwise, so we have to add "liar" to your
growing list of descriptions.
Yes, we are all invited.
I've already demonstrated that you lie about this - we're
not all invited as the Bible makes crystal clear:
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not
into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans
enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
(Mat 10: 5,6)
That was a specific instruction to go only to the lost sheep of Israel,
Thanks for agreeing. In other words, I'm right, you're wrong as
usual.
headed by James if I remember right (I do of course).
You don't even remember the definition of "Evidence" after I've
repeatedly given it to you so what hope do you have of remembering
something more complex than that?
They were Jesus' words to his disciples, when all of the disciples
were gathered together and he was instructing them on what he wanted
them to do. He specifically told them in his own words (according to
the Bible) to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and tell
them that the kingdom of Heaven is at hand. So clearly you do not
remember. I'd be happy to debate this issue with you, but you've run
away from two debates already, one of which you yourself begged for,
so it's hardly worth pretending you can show up for a third, now is
it?
This is the same chapter, now, that Jesus tells the disciples he will
return during their lifetime: "But when they persecute you in this
city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not
have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."
(Mat 10:23) - another lie from your master. There were not many
cities in Israel (there still aren't), so clearly the message was that
Jesus would return very soon, yet here we are 2,000 years later, and
not a sign of him. But it's good to know that you're following his
command - when the going gets tough, run away. You're the Internet's
foremost proponent of that teaching - apart from Disaster Dave, Mud
Scientist and Jabrihole, of course.
Peter was selected by God to preach to the Gentiles. Acts 15:7.
Nice piece of misdirection, but the issue is whether or not the Bible
applies to Gentiles as determined by God himself or by Jesus according
to the Bible itself. When it comes to words we get direct from god or
Jesus (so the Bible claims), then the message and the favoritism is
clearly directed only at the House of Israel. They are, after all,
the chosen people, are they not?
So in Jesus' own words, we Gentiles are not invited.
Sure you were - see above..
And again in Mat 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but
unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"
And Peter to the gentiles.
This doesn't come direct from Jesus or god - it's merely the anonymous
writer of Acts claiming that Peter claimed he had this authority when
this Jesus character was dead and therefore no longer around to
contradict him. You'll have to do better than that. And you pretend
you know the Bible better than me? Liar.
And in Revelation: "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor
the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their
foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and
there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the
tribes of the children of Israel" (Rev 7:3,4)
144,000: 12,000 of each of the 12 tribes of Israel.
Can you get that through your dumb skull? But I'm not debating this
issue of who gets called here. The issue that I've repeatedly
challenged you on here and from which you've repeatedly run away is
not whether we're invited but **WHY ARE WE ALL INVITED WHEN GOD
ALREADY KNOWS WHICH ONES WILL BE CHOSEN**?
Yes, and all peoples everywhere originate from one of the 12 tribes, so you are included.
Once again you've run away from the question. I'll prove your claim
wrong in a minute, but first you need to address the issue of the
144,000 people. There are 6 billion on the planet. Only 144,000 get
chosen. Therefore it makes not a jot of difference what the other
5,999,856,000 do. Only 144,000 get to Heaven. So your repentence is
trashed, your free will is trashed, your entire argument is
**TRASHED**. Get it now?
If you want to make a case that "144,000" is simply Bible double-speak
for "a lot" then you need to support your argument with something
other than juvenile, desperate begging for me to please take your word
for it.
On the topic of origins, genetics proves you wrong. Humanity isn't
descended from anyone in the Middle East, but from Africans. For
example:
Genetic study roots humans in Africa:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1058484.stm
Tanzania, Ethipia Origin for Humans
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2909803.stm
Adam Never Met Eve:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/999030.stm
And now the fun part. Peoples of those early times used
numbers for their relative values, not their absolute values.
And once again we get blather instead of supported argument. When you
can actually support your claims with references, preferably something
on line that we can all look up, then open you mouth. Until then
you're just flapping in the wind. Get it now? Failure to support
your arugment means you lose.
And while we're on the topic, I'll ask you yet another question that
you ran away from. Who is the arbiter of what is factual in the Bible
and what is allegorical? Who decides which numbers are symbolic and
which are not? What criteria do we have to determine which is which
and who established these criteria? Failure to support your argument
means you lose.
Three, as in the Holy Trinity, is representative of completeness.
So there really isn't a Trinity? Do you seriously think I'm not aware
of this symbolism? I've read the Bible more than you have. I've read
more *about* the Bible than you ever will because I'm not afraid of
it. The issue is not one of symbolism, it's one of who decides what
is symbolic and what isn't. Get it now? Until and unless you can
support your argument, you lose.
Twelve is a reoccurring theme as in 12 inches/foot,
I'd be thrilled if you could quote me where this is relevant. Do,
please. I'm very anxious to know which part of the Bible addresses
this interesting fact. Then look up the truth at:
http://www.dsgb.orbix.co.uk/feet.html and discover how wrong you were.
Your obsessive-compulsive addiction to the Lowly Bible has effectively
blinded you to the fact that it was not the first book ever written,
nor were the Hebrews the first civilization. History goes back long,
long, long before the Hebrews were even a bump on the map.
12 tribes, 12 months.
This is relevant to the specific issue of the 144,000 chosen ones how?
Once again deal with what's actually asked, not what you can
competently regurgitate from your limited reading.
Forty is found all over the place, forty days (lent)
wandering in the desert,
This is relevant to the specific issue of the 144,000 chosen ones how?
Once again deal with what's actually asked, not what you can
competently regurgitate from your limited reading.
Christ ascended 40 days after
he rose from the dead, 40 days of the Easter season, etc.
Well that really depends on which fable you read in the Bible, doesn't
it, because not all of them have the same time-frame.
So the 144,000 is indicative of very large numbers of people in heaven.
Yet they specified 144,000, not 12, or 40, or 6 billion or one million
or 666. If they wanted to say a large number, why didn't they say it?
Are you saying that your omniscient god couldn't have inspired them
to give an exact number? And from what authority do you argue this?
Clearly your own authority is thoroughly inadequate, as I've
repeatedly demonstrated. Support your argument or admit that it's
just more blind faith opinion of yours.
Can you grasp that?
You mean how blind, gullible and stupid you are? I think most of us
already that concept very firmly fixed.
If you were throwing a party and you could only
accommodate 12 people and you knew which 12 you were going to invite,
and you wanted only those 12, would you invite 50 just so you could
turn away 38 of them at the door? Yeah, if you were a *****. So what
is it? Is god a ***** or is god *not* omniscient?
Yet all are invited. That's the point.
No, you're missing the point. Let me break it down into simple
questions for you. Clearly you'll run away from these, but at least
that proves that you understood them - that the questions were simple
enough for you to understand how thoroughly out-of-your-depth you are.
1. Is your god a god of love or not?
2. Does your god already know who will be saved and who will not?
3. If your god already knows who will be saved, what is the point of
inviting everyone? I mean, say 144,000 really are going to be saved,
and god knows this and knows who they are, what is the point of
inviting even one person who is not on the list, apart from sheer
sadism?
Is that simple enough for you, Duped?
Not me - I fall all over myself accepting the invitation.
You fall over yourself period.
It makes no difference what I do - the register is already written.
The register is infinitely large in size. Your invitation
is all made out. All you have to do is accept.
No, you're missing the point. Let me break it down into simple
questions for you. Clearly you'll run away from these, but at least
that proves that you understood them - that the questions were simple
enough for you to understand how thoroughly out of your depth you are.
1. Is your god a god of love or not?
2. Does your god already know who will be saved and who will not?
3. If your god already knows who will be saved, what is the point of
inviting everyone? I mean, say 144,000 really are going to be saved,
and god knows this and knows who they are, what is the point of
inviting even one person who is not on the list, apart from sheer
sadism?
Is that simple enough for you, Duped?
It makes not a jot of difference what any of us does. Get it now?
You're wrong.
Answer the question once again:
1. Does your god know or does your god not know who will be saved?
If your god knows, then there is no point in us doing anything, since,
regardless of what we do, of what kind of life we live, of how good or
bad we are, if we are on the list we will be saved and if we're not
we'll rot in Hell. The decision has already been made and our "free
will" is meaningless.
If your god doesn't know, then he's not omniscient.
Is that simple enough for even you to grasp, Duped?
Now how much easier can it be?
It could be as easy as your god not requiring this imbecilic HATs
(Heaven Admissions Test) in the first place and letting everyone in
without living this farcical life on Earth. That would truly be a god
of love. Is that easy enough for you to grasp?
God already knows who is chosen and so it is irrelevant what any of us
does. Is any of this getting through your dumb-cluck skull?
What God already knows is whether you will finally elect to
accept the invitation, or turn it down. He doesn't interfere
with your decision, which is yours and only yours to make.
But if he already knows what I will do, then I have no free will - it
is already engraved in stone. My behavior makes not a jot of
difference. If I'm on the list, I can be as evil as I wish for as
long as I wish, secure in the knowledge that at some point I'll do
what's necessary and get into the party. My free will and behavior is
irrelevant because the outcome is already determined.
This is akin to your playing craps in Vegas and finding that the dice
are loaded - that you have a friend behind the scenes who supplied you
with dice that are fixed to let you win every time. No matter how
many times you roll, no matter what technique you use, you will win.
Then you turn around and say, well you have free will because it's
your hand that actually rolls the dice.
The alternative to this is the more likely outcome. The odds are
carefully calculated to make sure that no matter what you do in the
short term, in the long term, you will lose at Vegas. No matter how
much money you bring to the table, no matter what game you play, no
matter how you handle your cards or dice, no matter how skillfull you
are, no matter how the wheel is spun, you will lose.
The same applies to your bizarre concept of Heaven. If my name is not
on the list, what difference does it make what I do or how I do it?
Or you can have your god contact me direct.
He's standing next to you right now.
Well you'd have to establish that there even is or ever was a god to
make a statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED
OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your hopelessly
clogged-up excuse for a brain?
And I notice **yet again**, instead of dealing with the question asked
or the propositon placed before you, you answer your own clueless idea
of what the question was or what the proposition is. I said, "Or you
can have your god contact me direct", not that you can tell me where
he is. Do you grasp the meaning of "contact me direct" or not?
Well you're too congenitally stupid to grasp this, but the reason to
believe it is that there isn't an iota of evidence to believe
otherwise.
Correction, there isn't an iota of evidence to suggest it isn't true.
What a pathetic excuse for a response, but how predictable that you'd
say it. You fell right into the trap yet again.
Excuse me but you're the one claiming there is this god. Your claim
is that there is something in addition to what we see in everyday
life. You're the one adding something to the mix. You're the one
insisting there is an afterlife and that there is a Jesus and that
there is a god. You're adding these things on top of what everyone
typically agrees on: that we're born, we live, we die.
Since it is your claim, since you are *adding* this to what's agreed
upon, it's incumbent upon **YOU** to show that your additional claim
has merit.
If this were not the case, anyone could claim anything and never have
to prove it or offer evidence! Instead, they would take the same
cowardly way out that you specialize in: trying to turn the table by
challenging the other side to disprove something that's never been
established in the first place!
You cannot keep running away from your responsibility. If you make a
claim, you need to prove it, or quit blathering about your claim. I'm
not the one making a claim. I'm not saying, "There isn't a god and I
can prove it!". All I'm doing is saying you've provided no evidence
to support **YOUR** claim. Get it now?
Having said that, I've already posted in other threads six solid
reasons why it makes no sense to believe in your god and you've failed
to refute even one of them.
And I said it's eternity for you and me one way or the other
- sharing in the glory of God for all eternity, or sharing
in mindless loneliness for all eternity.
This from the hypocrite who said, at the beginning of this thread, "I
have no idea what will happen to you. That's between you and God."
Now it's mindless loneliness? You need to get your story straight.
This is the guy who claims he always tells the truth so he cannot
contradict himself? Well we've just proven that to be yet another
Duped Lie(TM).
And BTW, I'll take the so-called "mindless loneliness" every day -
even for eternity - over spending eternity with you and your fucked-up
god.
For God is all love,
This is the same god who cruelly drowned innocent babies, children,
and animals with a global flood?
This is the same god who burned alive innocent babies, children, and
animals in Sodom and Gomorrah?
This is the same god who forced Hagar and her young teenage son into
the desert?
This is the same god who allowed a Pharoah to order all male Jewish
babies (his so-called chosen people) to be flung into the river?
This is the same god who apppoints a murderer to be the Israelite
law-giver, and then tries to kill this same man until his wife
mutilates a baby, whereupon he lets his law-giver go free?
This is the same god who hardened the Pharoah's heart so that he could
then send 10 plagues on Egypt causing all manner of suffering?
This is the same god who murdered all the firstborn of Egypt?
This is the same god who turned a woman into a leper for criticising a
marriage which was against the very same Jewish law that this god gave
out in the first place?
This is the same god who made the Israelites wander for *40 years* in
the wilderness?
This is the same god who ordered a man to be stoned to death for
collecting sticks on the sabbath?
This is the same god who buried women and children alive?
This is the same god who leveled a city saving not one child, but
saving a deceitful prostitute?
This is the same god who made the sun stand still until he'd had his
thirst for gratuitous slaughter quenched?
This is the same god who accepts children as sacrifices and even makes
one of his own?
This is the same god who kills a man for trying to save the ark from
damage?
This is the same god who kills children and sells wives to "punish" a
man who disobeys him?
This is the same god who set a couple of bears on some kids for doing
nothing more criminal than having a jest at a bald man?
This is the same god whose manual states, "Happy shall he be, that
taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"?
God of love? Get a clue.
This is the same god who demanded, carried out, or condoned the
slaughter of:
3,000 Israelites for worshipping the golden calf
250 Levites who didn't like Moses
14,700 Hebrews by plague
24,000 Israelites who worshipped Baal (so much for free will)
12,000 men women and children of Ai
10,000 Moabites
10,000 Perizites and Canaanites
600 Philistines
3,000 more Philistines in a collapsed roof incident
120,000 Midianites
25,100 Benjamites (supposedly part of the chosen ones)
50,000 Bethshemeshites
22,000 Syrians
40,000 additional Syrians on horseback
70,000 by pestilence
100,000 more Syrians
185,000 Assyrians
500,000 men of Israel
10,000 Edomites
120,000 Judeans
75,000 Persians
God of love? ***** YOU.
and therefore hell is no love at all - no love of God,
no love of self, no love of family, no love of friend,
no love of anything. Just an eternity without love.
This from the god of love, reported by the hypocrite who just got
through saying, "I have no idea what will happen to you. That's
between you and God."
You should have left it at, "I have no idea" - that's right on the
money.
I can drag you kicking and screaming to the water,
but I can't make you drink. You have
to say yes to yourself.
You couldn't even begin to drag me anywhere. You're a stupid,
clueless, lying, hypocritical sexist, thoughtless imbecile.
Besides, I already told you my answer is no. Your pathetic and
childish little psycho-god can kiss my ***** right in the crack. Or do
I need to spell that out for you as well?
Budikka
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
11 Dec 2004 11:33:19 PM |
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See also:
"The Future of Human Health and Longevity"
http://www.scienceboard.net/community/perspectives.125.html
and
"Unraveling the Secrets of Human Longevity"
http://longevity-science.org/
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