| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Gregory Gadow" |
| Date: |
01 Sep 2004 11:03:22 AM |
| Object: |
God is not much of an engineer |
Why We Fall Apart
Engineering's reliability theory explains human aging
By Leonid Gavrilov & Natalia Gavrilova
CHILDHOOD IS A SPECIAL TIME INDEED. If only we could maintain our body
functions as they are at age 10, we could expect to live about 5000
years on average. Unfortunately, from age 11 on, it's all downhill!
The problem is that our bodies deteriorate with age. For most of our
lives, the risk of death is increasing exponentially, doubling every
eight years. So, why do we fall apart, and what can we do about it?
Many scientists now believe that, for the first time in human history,
we have developed a sophisticated enough understanding of the nature of
human aging to begin seriously planning ways to defeat it. These
scientists are working from a simple but compelling notion: the body,
far from being a perfect creation, is a failure-prone, defect-ridden
machine formed through the stochastic process of biological evolution.
The article continues at
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/sep04/0904age.html
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[W]e have never held that moral disapproval, without any other asserted
state interest, is a sufficient rationale under the Equal Protection
Clause to justify a law that discriminates among groups of persons."
- Sandra Day O`Conner, _Lawrence v Texas_
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=02-102
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| User: "The other Donald" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
01 Sep 2004 11:05:36 AM |
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"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:4135F2CA.2156A3AF@serv.net...
Why We Fall Apart
Engineering's reliability theory explains human aging
By Leonid Gavrilov & Natalia Gavrilova
CHILDHOOD IS A SPECIAL TIME INDEED. If only we could maintain our body
Here's a site I got a kick out of:
The unintelligent designer:
http://www.theshrubbery.com/udn/
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
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| User: "Jenny6833A" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
01 Sep 2004 05:05:16 PM |
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"The other Donald" says
Here's a site I got a kick out of:
The unintelligent designer:
http://www.theshrubbery.com/udn/
It badly needs editing.
:-)
Jenny
Before emailing, remove Clothes
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| User: "Godfrey" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
02 Sep 2004 02:48:45 PM |
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I agree: in addition to which the website itself is an exercise in
"unintelligent design". I got a headache trying to read against that
background.
But having said that, I think this guy's on to something...
Godfrey
On 01 Sep 2004 22:05:16 GMT, jenny6833a@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A)
wrote:
"The other Donald" says
Here's a site I got a kick out of:
The unintelligent designer:
http://www.theshrubbery.com/udn/
It badly needs editing.
:-)
Jenny
Before emailing, remove Clothes
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| User: "JPG" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
01 Sep 2004 11:15:35 AM |
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On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:03:22 -0700, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Why We Fall Apart
Engineering's reliability theory explains human aging
By Leonid Gavrilov & Natalia Gavrilova
CHILDHOOD IS A SPECIAL TIME INDEED. If only we could maintain our body
functions as they are at age 10, we could expect to live about 5000
years on average. Unfortunately, from age 11 on, it's all downhill!
The problem is that our bodies deteriorate with age. For most of our
lives, the risk of death is increasing exponentially, doubling every
eight years. So, why do we fall apart, and what can we do about it?
Many scientists now believe that, for the first time in human history,
we have developed a sophisticated enough understanding of the nature of
human aging to begin seriously planning ways to defeat it. These
scientists are working from a simple but compelling notion: the body,
far from being a perfect creation, is a failure-prone, defect-ridden
machine formed through the stochastic process of biological evolution.
The article continues at
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/sep04/0904age.html
He obviously didn't check the ANSI specs before designing us.
JPG
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
01 Sep 2004 01:03:03 PM |
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JPG wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:03:22 -0700, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Why We Fall Apart
Engineering's reliability theory explains human aging
By Leonid Gavrilov & Natalia Gavrilova
CHILDHOOD IS A SPECIAL TIME INDEED. If only we could maintain our body
functions as they are at age 10, we could expect to live about 5000
years on average. Unfortunately, from age 11 on, it's all downhill!
The problem is that our bodies deteriorate with age. For most of our
lives, the risk of death is increasing exponentially, doubling every
eight years. So, why do we fall apart, and what can we do about it?
Many scientists now believe that, for the first time in human history,
we have developed a sophisticated enough understanding of the nature of
human aging to begin seriously planning ways to defeat it. These
scientists are working from a simple but compelling notion: the body,
far from being a perfect creation, is a failure-prone, defect-ridden
machine formed through the stochastic process of biological evolution.
The article continues at
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/sep04/0904age.html
He obviously didn't check the ANSI specs before designing us.
Which begs the question... who designed the specs? :-D
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"The accumulation of all power, legislative,
executive, and judicial in the same hands...
may justly be pronounced the very definition
of tyranny."
- James Madison, _The Federalist_, #47
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
01 Sep 2004 03:26:26 PM |
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Gregory Gadow wrote:
JPG wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:03:22 -0700, Gregory Gadow
<techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Why We Fall Apart
Engineering's reliability theory explains human aging
By Leonid Gavrilov & Natalia Gavrilova
CHILDHOOD IS A SPECIAL TIME INDEED. If only we could maintain our
body functions as they are at age 10, we could expect to live about
5000 years on average. Unfortunately, from age 11 on, it's all
downhill!
The problem is that our bodies deteriorate with age. For most of our
lives, the risk of death is increasing exponentially, doubling every
eight years. So, why do we fall apart, and what can we do about it?
Many scientists now believe that, for the first time in human
history, we have developed a sophisticated enough understanding of
the nature of human aging to begin seriously planning ways to
defeat it. These scientists are working from a simple but
compelling notion: the body, far from being a perfect creation, is
a failure-prone, defect-ridden machine formed through the
stochastic process of biological evolution.
The article continues at
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/sep04/0904age.html
He obviously didn't check the ANSI specs before designing us.
Which begs the question... who designed the specs? :-D
The saame ones who designed the RS-232 "standard", everybody.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
01 Sep 2004 05:43:03 PM |
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On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:15:35 +0100, JPG <me@privacy.net> wrote:
He obviously didn't check the ANSI specs before designing us.
God wrote the ANSI standards. We misapplied them.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
01 Sep 2004 10:39:47 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach duke:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:15:35 +0100, JPG <me@privacy.net> wrote:
He obviously didn't check the ANSI specs before designing us.
God wrote the ANSI standards. We misapplied them.
Chapter & verse, please.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that
intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree?
Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. "You eat this apple, you're going to be
as smart as God. We can't have that."
[Frank Zappa]
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
02 Sep 2004 04:56:59 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<c2kcj0hhmhsb8etctqt3s8ah5urfnjc82k@4ax.com>...
On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:15:35 +0100, JPG <me@privacy.net> wrote:
He obviously didn't check the ANSI specs before designing us.
God wrote the ANSI standards. We misapplied them.
More unsupported ***** from the Internet's expert on unsupported *****.
Budikka
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
01 Sep 2004 05:41:49 PM |
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On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:03:22 -0700, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
God's not the problem. We had an eternity in the garden coming our way until A&E blew it
all and decided to act like a god themselves. We are their product.
Why We Fall Apart
Engineering's reliability theory explains human aging
By Leonid Gavrilov & Natalia Gavrilova
CHILDHOOD IS A SPECIAL TIME INDEED. If only we could maintain our body
functions as they are at age 10, we could expect to live about 5000
years on average. Unfortunately, from age 11 on, it's all downhill!
The problem is that our bodies deteriorate with age. For most of our
lives, the risk of death is increasing exponentially, doubling every
eight years. So, why do we fall apart, and what can we do about it?
Many scientists now believe that, for the first time in human history,
we have developed a sophisticated enough understanding of the nature of
human aging to begin seriously planning ways to defeat it. These
scientists are working from a simple but compelling notion: the body,
far from being a perfect creation, is a failure-prone, defect-ridden
machine formed through the stochastic process of biological evolution.
The article continues at
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/sep04/0904age.html
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "Firelock" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
02 Sep 2004 01:02:24 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<9vjcj0lbc8jv1sh9dbi5ng0o60n68vjqvf@4ax.com>...
On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:03:22 -0700, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
God's not the problem. We had an eternity in the garden
coming our way until A&E blew it all and decided to act
like a god themselves.
And this merciful and loving god you adore punishes *billions*
of people and *trillions* of other living things for this one
mistake, a mistake that none of these punished beings had any
control over. Your god can't help being what your myth-makers
have made of him, but the fact that you venerate such a being
speaks volumes about how noxious you are.
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
02 Sep 2004 05:43:00 PM |
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On 2 Sep 2004 11:02:24 -0700, (Firelock) wrote:
God's not the problem. We had an eternity in the garden
coming our way until A&E blew it all and decided to act
like a god themselves.
And this merciful and loving god you adore punishes *billions*
of people and *trillions* of other living things for this one
mistake
Nope, quite the opposite.
When A&E did their thing, they eliminated eternal salvation of the soul until Jesus died
on the cross to return it to us.
By being Christian, we therefore are rewarded according to our own personal acts in the
flesh. Do you have your bags packed? Did you pack your ac?
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
02 Sep 2004 09:13:54 PM |
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duke wrote:
On 2 Sep 2004 11:02:24 -0700, (Firelock)
wrote:
God's not the problem. We had an eternity in the garden
coming our way until A&E blew it all and decided to act
like a god themselves.
And this merciful and loving god you adore punishes *billions*
of people and *trillions* of other living things for this one
mistake
Nope, quite the opposite.
When A&E did their thing, they eliminated eternal salvation of the
soul until Jesus died on the cross to return it to us.
The RCC does not teach this. You would have nobody born prior to JC going to
heaven.
But then again it's Earl and eliminate probably means something else to him.
By being Christian, we therefore are rewarded according to our own
personal acts in the flesh. Do you have your bags packed? Did you
pack your ac?
As is anybody else according to your church.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
03 Sep 2004 12:56:29 PM |
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On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 02:13:54 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
When A&E did their thing, they eliminated eternal salvation of the
soul until Jesus died on the cross to return it to us.
The RCC does not teach this. You would have nobody born prior to JC going to
heaven.
No one comes to the Father except thru Jesus. It's scriptural, mikey.
You really aren't too bright in this area, are you mikey?
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
03 Sep 2004 09:02:40 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 02:13:54 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
When A&E did their thing, they eliminated eternal salvation of the
soul until Jesus died on the cross to return it to us.
The RCC does not teach this. You would have nobody born prior to JC
going to heaven.
No one comes to the Father except thru Jesus. It's scriptural, mikey.
You really aren't too bright in this area, are you mikey?
There's lots of scripture Earl, please show me where it says that Moses went
to hell since he didn't "come to the father except through Jesus"
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
05 Sep 2004 02:14:17 PM |
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On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 02:02:40 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The RCC does not teach this. You would have nobody born prior to JC
going to heaven.
No one comes to the Father except thru Jesus. It's scriptural, mikey.
You really aren't too bright in this area, are you mikey?
There's lots of scripture Earl, please show me where it says that Moses went
to hell since he didn't "come to the father except through Jesus"
He didn't. Moses didn't know anything about Jesus when he was alive.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
05 Sep 2004 06:13:27 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 02:02:40 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The RCC does not teach this. You would have nobody born prior to JC
going to heaven.
No one comes to the Father except thru Jesus. It's scriptural,
mikey. You really aren't too bright in this area, are you mikey?
There's lots of scripture Earl, please show me where it says that
Moses went to hell since he didn't "come to the father except
through Jesus"
He didn't. Moses didn't know anything about Jesus when he was alive.
Then acording to what you snipped he went to hell.
You have, as usual, snipped the portion that you wrote that shows youor
error.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
06 Sep 2004 08:01:22 AM |
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On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 23:13:27 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
There's lots of scripture Earl, please show me where it says that
Moses went to hell since he didn't "come to the father except
through Jesus"
He didn't. Moses didn't know anything about Jesus when he was alive.
Then acording to what you snipped he went to hell.
You have, as usual, snipped the portion that you wrote that shows youor
error.
Sorry, little mikey, but you are embarrassing yourself more and more now.
Moses never knew Jesus when he left and returned to Egypt.
But it's clear that he was saved by Jesus.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
06 Sep 2004 01:28:14 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<3qnoj0piiqtr5qppf6g43a66l8q9aob58n@4ax.com>...
On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 23:13:27 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
There's lots of scripture Earl, please show me where it says that
Moses went to hell since he didn't "come to the father except
through Jesus"
He didn't. Moses didn't know anything about Jesus when he was alive.
Then acording to what you snipped he went to hell.
You have, as usual, snipped the portion that you wrote that shows youor
error.
Sorry, little mikey, but you are embarrassing yourself more and more now.
Oops. You sure can't break your habit of lying, can you?
From http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=5ubhj0t91s94pdgi353pdht35avjp57frm%404ax.com:
"No one comes to the Father except thru Jesus. It's scriptural,
mikey." (Earl Webber, 2004-09-03 10:56:30 PST)
Moses never knew Jesus when he left and returned to Egypt.
Call the editors, we'll fix it in post. Easy to do with fiction.
But it's clear that he was saved by Jesus.
That's interesting. So, according to you, at least some people are
allowed to change their mind after they die. Huh. I wonder why god
wouldn't extend that courtesy to everyone. Just a *****, I guess.
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
02 Sep 2004 08:56:49 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<9vjcj0lbc8jv1sh9dbi5ng0o60n68vjqvf@4ax.com>...
On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:03:22 -0700, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
God's not the problem. We had an eternity in the garden coming our way
Lie. "Adam" and "Eve" were designed to die, as I've pointed out to
you but as you're too stupid to grasp.
until A&E blew it
According to the Bible, god blew it. And even if "Adam" and "Eve" did
blow it, why should we have to pay the price? Longsuffering god of
love? *****.
all and decided to act like a god themselves. We are their product.
You definitely are, but not me. I evolved.
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
Why? If god is omniscient, why doesn't he only invite those he knows
will be chosen? That is, those he has ordained will be chosen since
he created the universe in the first place? Either your god is
clueless or you are. I'm betting on the latter. All the evidence
supports it.
Budikka
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
03 Sep 2004 12:59:42 PM |
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On 2 Sep 2004 18:56:49 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
Lie. "Adam" and "Eve" were designed to die, as I've pointed out to
you but as you're too stupid to grasp.
until A&E blew it
According to the Bible, god blew it. And even if "Adam" and "Eve" did
blow it, why should we have to pay the price? Longsuffering god of
love? *****.
You don't. Christ's death on the cross returned salvation to us. Don't you know
anything about God and the bible?
all and decided to act like a god themselves. We are their product.
You definitely are, but not me. I evolved.
Are you an insect?
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
Why? If god is omniscient, why doesn't he only invite those he knows
will be chosen?
He doesn't - can't you read - he invites many, only some of which are chosen. Even you
are invited.
Your "no thanks" is yours to die with.
Bud, read some comic books. You might understand them better.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "William T. Goat, Esquire" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
04 Sep 2004 10:15:45 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<n2chj0lia0i216tjloq97o5tlg427ci0qb@4ax.com>...
On 2 Sep 2004 18:56:49 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
Why? If god is omniscient, why doesn't he only invite those he knows
will be chosen?
He doesn't - can't you read - he invites many, only some of which are chosen.
We *know* it says God invites many, only some of which are chosen. It
doesn't tell us *why*. We're asking *why*. Don't you have the answer
to this question?
Why does God invite people He will not choose?
Don't you have the answer to this question?
--Billy
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
05 Sep 2004 02:33:08 PM |
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On 4 Sep 2004 20:15:45 -0700, (William T. Goat, Esquire) wrote:
Why? If god is omniscient, why doesn't he only invite those he knows
will be chosen?
He doesn't - can't you read - he invites many, only some of which are chosen.
We *know* it says God invites many, only some of which are chosen. It
doesn't tell us *why*. We're asking *why*. Don't you have the answer
to this question?
Answer - you said no to his invitation.
Why does God invite people He will not choose?
You don't choose to accept the invitation. Not the other way around. You're invited.
Don't you have the answer to this question?
--Billy
Done.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "William T. Goat, Esquire" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
09 Sep 2004 02:56:41 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<pcqmj01ue8gam9qhlj17qps95vji126n66@4ax.com>...
On 4 Sep 2004 20:15:45 -0700, (William T. Goat, Esquire) wrote:
Why? If god is omniscient, why doesn't he only invite those he knows
will be chosen?
He doesn't - can't you read - he invites many, only some of which are chosen.
We *know* it says God invites many, only some of which are chosen. It
doesn't tell us *why*. We're asking *why*. Don't you have the answer
to this question?
Answer - you said no to his invitation.
Why does God invite people He will not choose?
You don't choose to accept the invitation. Not the other way around.
The Bible says it *is* the other way around. "Few are chosen". Not
"few choose." Read Matthew 22:10-14 again. The king rejects someone
who was invited. If God knows who He will reject, why invite them?
You're invited.
If He's already going to send me to Hell, why invite me?
--Billy
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
09 Sep 2004 06:01:27 PM |
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On 9 Sep 2004 12:56:41 -0700, (William T. Goat, Esquire) wrote:
You don't choose to accept the invitation. Not the other way around.
The Bible says it *is* the other way around. "Few are chosen". Not
"few choose." Read Matthew 22:10-14 again. The king rejects someone
who was invited. If God knows who He will reject, why invite them?
But you're invited, billy, and your chosen ways and habits say you're not interested, so
you're not chosen in accordance with your demonstrated desires.
If He's already going to send me to Hell, why invite me?
The invitation always stands. Who knows, you might actually clean up your act.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
13 Sep 2004 08:38:33 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<o2o1k05n794ck4qsln76hdp46hbqsi7jug@4ax.com>...
But you're invited, billy, and your chosen ways and
habits say you're not interested, so you're not chosen
in accordance with your demonstrated desires.
All this proves is that no matter who asks you these questions and no
matter how they word the questions, you're still too stupid to grasp
what the issue is here. It's not a matter or who is invited or
whether we're invited or how we're invited or why we're invited or how
many choose or do not choose or whether they have a choice or not or
how long the invitation is open. **HAVE OYU GRASPED THAT PART?**
**THE ISSUE IS THIS**:
Your god is either omniscient or he is not. Is he omniscient? Answer
the question, yes or no.
If you answered no, then your god is not omniscient, and that's a
fact. He has no way of knowing who will accept the invitation and who
will end up in Heaven. There is no alternative answer. He doesn't
know what's going on, and is therefore not much of a god.
If you answered yes, then this god **MUST** already know who will and
who will not accept the invitation and consequently he knows
**ALREADY** who will and who will not be saved. Therefore, why bother
asking those who will not be saved - the ones he knows for a fact will
end up in hell? It's nothing more than cruel taunting to offer
something to someone in full knowledge that you're never going to give
it to them. So if your god is omniscient, he is a cruel god, and
that's a fact. There is no alternative answer.
The other issue here is that many are called and few are chosen. This
implies that **WE** do not have free will. We cannot do the chosing.
Only your god makes the final choice, yet the Bible is far from clear
as to what it is we need to do to be chosen. In fact, it's so murky
as to what criteria we must fulfil that it's a completely farcical
contradictory joke. Get it now?
Not that you will grasp even this ultra-simplistic explanation, but
you cannot argue from this point on that the case has not been
repeatedly made crystal clear to anyone with half a functional brain
cell.
Budikka
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| User: "William T. Goat, Esquire" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
10 Sep 2004 06:14:55 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<o2o1k05n794ck4qsln76hdp46hbqsi7jug@4ax.com>...
On 9 Sep 2004 12:56:41 -0700, (William T. Goat, Esquire) wrote:
You don't choose to accept the invitation. Not the other way around.
The Bible says it *is* the other way around. "Few are chosen". Not
"few choose." Read Matthew 22:10-14 again. The king rejects someone
who was invited. If God knows who He will reject, why invite them?
But you're invited, billy, and your chosen ways and habits say you're not interested, so
you're not chosen in accordance with your demonstrated desires.
What chosen ways and habits might those be? Be specific. Perhaps
loving my family, against Jesus' instructions?
Besides, I already accepted the invitation. How do you explain my
years of desperate praying for God to stop hating me, if I wasn't
interested?
If He's already going to send me to Hell, why invite me?
The invitation always stands. Who knows, you might actually clean up your act.
You mean, I might stop loving people? Is love dirty in God's eyes?
--Billy
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
04 Sep 2004 05:56:44 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<n2chj0lia0i216tjloq97o5tlg427ci0qb@4ax.com>...
According to the Bible, god blew it. And even if "Adam" and "Eve" did
blow it, why should we have to pay the price? Longsuffering god of
love? *****.
You don't.
Yes we do - we have to go beg for mercy from this god of yours for
something we didn't do. If we don't beg (according to your *****
mythology), we rot in Hell for all eternity **FOR SOMETHING WE NEVER
DID**. That's flat out wrong, period.
Christ's death on the cross returned salvation to us.
But there never was a Christ. Didn't you grasp that fact yet? Once
again, if you disagree, you can always post your evidence
demonstrating that there really was a Christ. Given your demonstrated
and comprehensive impotence in this regard, I won't hold my breath.
Don't you know anything about God
It's not possible or even necessary to know anything useful about
something which doesn't exist - except that it doesn't exist, moron.
and the bible?
I've demonstrated I know a lot more about that than you do, obviously,
since you've predictably been unable to even pretend to refute the
issues I raised in this thread.
all and decided to act like a god themselves. We are their product.
You definitely are, but not me. I evolved.
Are you an insect?
Another clueless question from the master of cluelessness. What a
dunce you are. Please do thrill us with your explanation of what your
question has to do with what I said.
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
Why? If god is omniscient, why doesn't he only invite those he knows
will be chosen?
He doesn't - can't you read - he invites many, only some of which are chosen.
You don't get it, do you? Either this god you invented is omniscient
or he's not. If he is, then he already knew - before the universe was
created - who would be saved. Therefore the invitation is a pointless
farce which amounts to nothing more than a taunt thrown cruelly into
the faces of the condemned. Either that or this god isn't omniscient
and therefore is a fraud.
But that's your problem. Since you believe this lie, it's you who
needs to fugure this out, not me. Your invented childish god isn't a
problem for me; Never has been, never will be.
Even you are invited.
Your "no thanks" is yours to die with.
As I've tediously explained over and endlessly over again to you (an
explanation which you've never refuted), there is no god, no afterlife
and nothing to worry about. Even if there were, I would much rather
rot in hell or descend into complete oblivion than spend even five
seconds with this pathetically oafish god you've created. My only
regret is that in the non-existent liklihood that you're right, I
wouldn't be around to take the opportunity to laugh in your stupid
face as you descend into the real hell of spending the tedious,
mindless, soul-destroying eternity with this god of yours.
Bud, read some comic books. You might understand them better.
I've never found a better comic book than the Bible although it's not
so comic when you think of all the misery this god of yours brought
into the Earth.
Budikka
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
05 Sep 2004 02:31:26 PM |
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On 4 Sep 2004 15:56:44 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
Yes we do - we have to go beg for mercy from this god of yours for
something we didn't do.
Nope, you have to repent of your sins and ask for forgiveness for the sins you yourself
committed.
If we don't beg (according to your *****
mythology), we rot in Hell for all eternity
Nope, that's your atheist theology talking now. And you don't even have any idea what
you're talking about.
**FOR SOMETHING WE NEVER
DID**. That's flat out wrong, period.
You don't even have to open your mouth much less beg..
Christ's death on the cross returned salvation to us.
But there never was a Christ. Didn't you grasp that fact yet?
He was seen and experienced in person by hundreds.
Once
again, if you disagree, you can always post your evidence
demonstrating that there really was a Christ. Given your demonstrated
and comprehensive impotence in this regard, I won't hold my breath.
A true encounter with a man experienced by hundreds and passed on for 2000 years now. If
it was a fake, it would have died out by now.
Don't you know anything about God
It's not possible or even necessary to know anything useful about
something which doesn't exist - except that it doesn't exist, moron.
God is one, bud.
and the bible?
I've demonstrated I know a lot more about that than you do, obviously,
since you've predictably been unable to even pretend to refute the
issues I raised in this thread.
You've only demonstrated that you have no idea what the bible says.
Why? If god is omniscient, why doesn't he only invite those he knows
will be chosen?
He doesn't - can't you read - he invites many, only some of which are chosen.
You don't get it, do you?
We're all invited. But some of you say "no thanks".
Either this god you invented is omniscient
or he's not.
If he is, then he already knew - before the universe was
created - who would be saved. Therefore the invitation is a pointless
farce which amounts to nothing more than a taunt thrown cruelly into
the faces of the condemned.
Nope, that statement means that he knows you yourself elected to turn down his invitation.
We are all invited, but some of us will say no, like you but not me.
Either that or this god isn't omniscient
and therefore is a fraud.
You statement makes it evermore true.
But that's your problem. Since you believe this lie, it's you who
needs to fugure this out, not me. Your invented childish god isn't a
problem for me; Never has been, never will be.
Well, it's your funeral. Enjoy it if you can, for you will surely stand before God to
answer for and be judged for the things you did while in the flesh.
Even you are invited.
Your "no thanks" is yours to die with.
As I've tediously explained over and endlessly over again to you (an
explanation which you've never refuted), there is no god, no afterlife
and nothing to worry about.
You said it, but you never offered any reason to believe it.
Even if there were, I would much rather
rot in hell or descend into complete oblivion than spend even five
seconds with this pathetically oafish god you've created.
I didn't create him, he created you and I.
My only
regret is that in the non-existent liklihood that you're right, I
wouldn't be around to take the opportunity to laugh in your stupid
face as you descend into the real hell of spending the tedious,
mindless, soul-destroying eternity with this god of yours.
If I'm right, why would I descent into hell? You're the one that rejects his existence.
If you're right, there's no hell to descend to.
Good luck. May you come to your senses and amend your ways. God awaits.
Bud, read some comic books. You might understand them better.
I've never found a better comic book than the Bible although it's not
so comic when you think of all the misery this god of yours brought
into the Earth.
Budikka
God didn't bring it, mankind brought it.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
06 Sep 2004 03:01:34 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<kdpmj0hgis3pad1207kguhn3e0bgiailfq@4ax.com>...
Nope, you have to repent of your sins and ask for
forgiveness for the sins you yourself committed.
I haven't commited any sins. Of course, if you wanted to convince me
that I have, then you'd have to provide **EVIDENCE** (as opposed to
blind personal belief) that:
1. There is a god.
2. The so-called Holy Bible was inspired by this god
3. The advice given in the Bible is valid
4. The advice given in the Bible applies today
5. The advice given in the Bible applies to me.
6. Ignoring the advice will condemn me to Hell
7. Hell is worse than Heaven
and EITHER
8. The names of the chosen are not already known, written, and sealed
OR
8. I can change a perfect god's mind
Or you can have your god contact me direct.
Get started.
If we don't beg (according to your *****
mythology), we rot in Hell for all eternity
Nope, that's your atheist theology talking now.
And you don't even have any idea what
you're talking about.
Well it's great to hear that because all I'm doing here is repeating
what you've been saying. Don't believe me? Here's a quote of yours
from the very message to which I'm responding: "Well, it's your
funeral. Enjoy it if you can, for you will surely stand before God to
answer for and be judged for the things you did while in the flesh."
Are you now saying that after we're judged we *WON'T* rot in Hell if
we're found not worthy?
**FOR SOMETHING WE NEVER
DID**. That's flat out wrong, period.
You don't even have to open your mouth much less beg.
What's praying for forgiveness if it isn't begging, moron? What's
desperately asking this mythical Jesus to come into your life and save
you if it's not begging?
Asking a favor of an equal is not begging. Telling someone you don't
want to do what they want you to do and then **NOT** being punished
for it is not begging. Wanting to be free of this tyrannical,
sadistic, paranoid-schizophrenic god, but being forced to live the
life he designed for you, being forced into a ***** test in which
you're unfairly hobbled from the beginning, and then being told that
unless you beg for forgiveness you'll rot in Hell for eternity is
**BEGGING**. Get it now?
But there never was a Christ. Didn't you grasp that fact yet?
He was seen and experienced in person by hundreds.
And your **EVIDENCE** for this is? Oh that's right - the *****
Bible for which you have never, ever, ever, ever, offered a shred of
independent support. Get a clue, idiot.
Where are these hundreds of testimonials? Because all I can see in
the Bible is four contradictory "gospels" written by anonymous people,
all of them with a different axe to grind, two of which are
demonstrably copies of a third. You call *all of this ******
evidence? Once again you have more than adequately demonstrated your
utter cluelessness as to what evidence is.
A true encounter with a man experienced by hundreds and
passed on for 2000 years now.
Pissed on, you mean.
If it was a fake, it would have died out by now.
And your **EVIDENCE** for this is? Oh that's right - the *****
Bible for which you have never, ever, ever, ever, offered a shred of
independent support. Get a clue, idiot.
Have you ever heard of the argument from incredulity? The argument
from false authority? Because you're wasting your time with both of
them here.
Do you believe in the Egyptian gods? In the Roman gods? In the
ancient Greek gods? Why not? Those gods were prayed to and followed
and worshipped and believed in, in some cases, for thousands of years
by millions of people. Does that make them real? Of course not. You
lose.
It's not possible or even necessary to know anything useful about
something which doesn't exist - except that it doesn't exist, moron.
God is one, bud.
One what? One big fat myth? Where's your **EVIDENCE** (as opposed to
blind belief) for the existence of this god?
I've demonstrated I know a lot more about that than you do, obviously,
since you've predictably been unable to even pretend to refute the
issues I raised in this thread.
You've only demonstrated that you have no idea what the bible says.
Then it ought to be easy for you to refute what I've been saying, and
here you are flapping your spittle-soaked lips helplessly, message
after message.
You're not up to debating what I've said; instead, you run away
repeatedly, desperately trying to convince yourself that I haven't
said anything.
You can't overthrow my case by rational argument, because you are too
irrational.
You can't provide evidence to support your position.
You're a hypocrite and you contradict every other thing you say. If
you actually understood the truth you'd see that what you've been
saying is your own blind belief which has nothing whatsoever to do
with the Bible.
We're all invited. But some of you say "no thanks".
Answer the question, coward. The issue here is not whether we're all
invited. I've already demonstrated that you lie about this - we're
not all invited as the Bible makes crystal clear:
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not
into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans
enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
(Mat 10: 5,6)
So in Jesus' own words, we Gentiles are not invited.
And again in Mat 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but
unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"
So if you aren't of the house of Israel, in Jesus' own words, he was
not sent to talk to you and neither did he send his disciples to reach
you. Get it now? Now who knows the Bible and who doesn't, you blind,
arrogant *****?
And in Revelation: "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor
the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their
foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and
there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the
tribes of the children of Israel" (Rev 7:3,4)
144,000: 12,000 of each of the 12 tribes of Israel.
Can you get that through your dumb skull? But I'm not debating this
issue of who gets called here. The issue that I've repeatedly
challenged you on here and from which you've repeatedly run away is
not whether we're invited but **WHY ARE WE ALL INVITED WHEN GOD
ALREADY KNOWS WHICH ONES WILL BE CHOSEN**?
Can you grasp that? Then answer it. What's the point, other than
sadistic cruelty, of inviting people when it's already known they will
not be admitted? If you were throwing a party and you could only
accommodate 12 people and you knew which 12 you were going to invite,
and you wanted only those 12, would you invite 50 just so you could
turn away 38 of them at the door? Yeah, if you were a *****. So what
is it? Is god a ***** or is god *not* omniscient?
Nope, that statement means that he knows you yourself
elected to turn down his invitation.
It makes no difference what I do - the register is already written.
Those who will be saved will be saved and those who will not will not.
It makes not a jot of difference what any of us does. Get it now?
And you think there's free will? What a complete imbecile you are.
In your last message you already admitted that I don't have to do
anything!
We are all invited, but some of us will say no, like you but not me.
God already knows who is chosen and so it is irrelevant what any of us
does. Is any of this getting through your dumb-cluck skull?
Well, it's your funeral. Enjoy it if you can, for you will
surely stand before God to
answer for and be judged for the things you did while in the flesh.
If you truly wanted to convince anyone that this is something more
than rank horseshit, then you would have to provide **EVIDENCE** (as
opposed to blind personal belief) that:
1. There is a god.
2. The so-called Holy Bible was inspired by this god
3. The advice given in the Bible is valid
4. The advice given in the Bible applies today
5. The advice given in the Bible applies to me.
6. Ignoring the advice will condemn me to Hell
7. Hell is worse than Heaven
and EITHER
8. The names of the chosen are not already known, written, and sealed
OR
8. I can change a perfect god's mind
Or you can have your god contact me direct.
Get started.
As I've tediously explained over and endlessly over again to you (an
explanation which you've never refuted), there is no god, no afterlife
and nothing to worry about.
You said it, but you never offered any reason to believe it.
Well you're too congenitally stupid to grasp this, but the reason to
believe it is that there isn't an iota of evidence to believe
otherwise. Get it now? Unless, of course, you're prepared to
actually offer some **EVIDENCE** (as opposed to blind personal
belief). Get it now?
I didn't create him, he created you and I.
Of course, to support that contention, you'd have to be prepared to
actually offer some **EVIDENCE** (as opposed to blind personal
belief). Get it now?
If I'm right, why would I descent into hell?
If you read what's written, dipshit, you'll see that what I said was
"descend" not "descent", and here are my actual words: "descend into
the real hell of spending the tedious, mindless, soul-destroying
eternity with this god of yours."
So you see I did not say descend (or descent) into hell, but descend
into the real hell - what you call Heaven - of eternal sevitude. Get
it now you illiterate *****?
I've never found a better comic book than the Bible although it's not
so comic when you think of all the misery this god of yours brought
into the Earth.
Budikka
God didn't bring it, mankind brought it.
Well again you would have to support your blind beliefs as follows;
1. There is a god.
2. The so-called Holy Bible was inspired by this god
3. The advice given in the Bible is valid
4. The advice given in the Bible applies today
5. The advice given in the Bible applies to me.
6. Ignoring the advice will condemn me to Hell
7. Hell is worse than Heaven
and EITHER
8. The names of the chosen are not already known, written, and sealed
OR
8. I can change a perfect god's mind
Or you can have your god contact me direct.
Get started. I'm not holding my breath.
Budikka
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