| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Brent Schomer" |
| Date: |
08 Sep 2004 11:06:08 AM |
| Object: |
God is not much of an engineer |
Well you'd have to establish that there even was a Jesus to make a
statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED OF
EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your hopelessly
clogged-up excuse for a brain?
I snipped....
My name is Brent Schomer. I have been sealed and was fully aware when
it took place in mid August of 2002. I was pulled up through a tunnel
of light just as I was about to fall asleep. I have no idea if I was
out of my body or my body was with me. It was that real, and I was
just as (if not more) aware as I am at this moment. Going up through
the tunnel I arrived in an immense place that reminded of how I felt
when I was a kid in a large expansive bank lobby. Clean and big and
very cool - not in the temperature sense. There was a beautiful floor
but no walls, and in the same instant that I began to process my
surroundings, I was looking face to face, eye to eye, with Jesus,
shaking his hand. It felt like your best friend. No worries. As I
realized who I was with, I started to upwell with questions, and
before I could even formulate one in my head, I was being sent back
through the tunnel of light. While going back through what can
honestly be described as our modern conception of a worm hole, what I
thought was a spear with no tip, or a staff, came into my right hand.
I thought it was some kind of symbol of being a warrrior and standing
firm in the face of lieas and evil, etc. And as I was alighting back
into my bed ( I honestly can't say if I was in my body or out of my
body) a ray of energy came from somewhere in the cosmos (I wasn't
aware of the source - it felt like it came as a beam from eternity)
and traced a pattern just above the space between my eyes. I remember
thinking that it was an uneven pattern and how that was odd, because
my only notion at the time was that my third eye chakra or inner
vision power or something was being enhanced or corrected or healed,
etc. You see, I had never read the book of Revelation before, and had
no idea what had happened, in the biblical sense.
Then I fell into a lucid dream, after about a second of awakeness
in my room. I was fully aware that I was now in a lucid dream - very
much unlike what had just happened. I was walking around a bazaar or
marketplace, going about my regular way when a man, taller than I with
a strange look stood in front of me. I asked him, "Are you evil?" and
he replied, "Yes, I'm evil". At this I was able to crunch this
person's entire being up and with a roar of victory sent his crushed
being into a furnace on my left side which was actually represented by
a similiar looking furnace to the one I have in my home. Then I
awoke. I will never forget the entire sequence of these events,
because they are so simple and direct, and the first part being pulled
up to meet Jesus was beyond real. It was more real than I sit here
now.
Remember, I had never read the Book of Revelation until about a
month later, because I was busy with moving into a new home. Only
when I read the the book of Revelation did I... how would you describe
how I felt and feel now? You obviously don't have that feeling, but I
hope you do. Prior to this I had really just focused on the fact that
the coolest one ever gave himself up to redeem us and save us from our
own sin. That is the biggest gesture of love, and thankfullness for
the free gift is all you need to enter Heaven on Earth. I'm not sure
about after death. But the sealing business is real, and I am the
only person I know who has been sealed. I will take a lie detector
test anywhere anytime - any questions. I swear in the name of God,
Son, and Holy spirit that what you have just read is entirely factual
and is the truth.
Now that you know who I am, I want to address some of your
theosophical sophistry. Of course It is all known - how could
prophecy be true? But within the nexus of time, you get to make
choices, so that it's nobody's fault but your own. It's just that God
is that powerful that He wants us to know it's all known and taken
care of but that our freedom to decide is the most important aspect of
our humanity. That's the image of our Creator, by the way. You get a
free pass from God's justice when you understand the sacrifice that,
remember, a miracle worker, wise beyond wisdom itself, made so that
schmucks like us get a chance to party with the rest of the eternal.
Remember the free will. Anyone who wants to take your ability to use
it away comes from the evil side. Just focus, if you must, on the
"Braveheart" aspect of what went down with Jesus. Imagine a Father
giving up his Son, and a Son giving up his life, so to create a
Spiritual Bond that outsmarted the fallen ones who are jealous of us
and who try to drag us down with them for all time. All you have to
do is live in that Love and you will lead a different life.
Now, if you'd still like to going on preaching against the only
team in the history of anything that confirms life beyond death, and
that opened up heaven to all of us universally, and that had no aim
but the highest Love for all, because it is that, then you have a
problem. A very, very big problem, which frankly defies logic. Your
intent to disprove is understandable in the sense that alot of dumb
***** happens supposedly in the name of Jesus. But it speaks of your
spiritual immaturity, and the fact that you are currently a sellout to
your Creator, and a free gift of life refuser. Try heaven on for size
and understand the Love that you don't need to earn, but without you
burn. And shut your mouth against my Tribe, because you're talking
against the only chance you've ever had. Trust me. If you don't, you
won't be happy. And test me with the lie detector. I beg you. I'll
pay for it and I'll travel for you, and we'll video tape it and you
will be the unbeliever who has no choice. Either I am lying, or I
actually believe what has happened is the truth. If I can be trusted
that what I have said is the truth as know it, how will you explain
the fact that these things happened to me before I was ever exposed to
Revelation? It'll all be confirmed in any series of lie detector
tests. Don't forget that there are powers stronger than anything that
are on your side, quietly awaiting for you to give up your arrogance.
And God Bless *****. Cause when the ***** hits the fan, you don't want
to be *****.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
08 Sep 2004 11:56:01 AM |
|
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"Brent Schomer" <brentschomer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:879abff.0409080806.f7b53ea@posting.google.com...
Well you'd have to establish that there even was a Jesus to make a
statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED OF
EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your hopelessly
clogged-up excuse for a brain?
I snipped....
My name is Brent Schomer. I have been sealed and was fully aware when
it took place in mid August of 2002. I was pulled up through a tunnel
of light just as I was about to fall asleep. I have no idea if I was
out of my body or my body was with me. It was that real, and I was
just as (if not more) aware as I am at this moment. Going up through
the tunnel I arrived in an immense place that reminded of how I felt
when I was a kid in a large expansive bank lobby. Clean and big and
very cool - not in the temperature sense. There was a beautiful floor
but no walls, and in the same instant that I began to process my
surroundings, I was looking face to face, eye to eye, with Jesus,
shaking his hand. It felt like your best friend. No worries. As I
realized who I was with, I started to upwell with questions, and
before I could even formulate one in my head, I was being sent back
through the tunnel of light. While going back through what can
honestly be described as our modern conception of a worm hole, what I
thought was a spear with no tip, or a staff, came into my right hand.
I thought it was some kind of symbol of being a warrrior and standing
firm in the face of lieas and evil, etc. And as I was alighting back
into my bed ( I honestly can't say if I was in my body or out of my
body) a ray of energy came from somewhere in the cosmos (I wasn't
aware of the source - it felt like it came as a beam from eternity)
and traced a pattern just above the space between my eyes. I remember
thinking that it was an uneven pattern and how that was odd, because
my only notion at the time was that my third eye chakra or inner
vision power or something was being enhanced or corrected or healed,
etc. You see, I had never read the book of Revelation before, and had
no idea what had happened, in the biblical sense.
Then I fell into a lucid dream, after about a second of awakeness
in my room. I was fully aware that I was now in a lucid dream - very
much unlike what had just happened. I was walking around a bazaar or
marketplace, going about my regular way when a man, taller than I with
a strange look stood in front of me. I asked him, "Are you evil?" and
he replied, "Yes, I'm evil". At this I was able to crunch this
person's entire being up and with a roar of victory sent his crushed
being into a furnace on my left side which was actually represented by
a similiar looking furnace to the one I have in my home. Then I
awoke. I will never forget the entire sequence of these events,
because they are so simple and direct, and the first part being pulled
up to meet Jesus was beyond real. It was more real than I sit here
now.
Remember, I had never read the Book of Revelation until about a
month later, because I was busy with moving into a new home. Only
when I read the the book of Revelation did I... how would you describe
how I felt and feel now? You obviously don't have that feeling, but I
hope you do. Prior to this I had really just focused on the fact that
the coolest one ever gave himself up to redeem us and save us from our
own sin. That is the biggest gesture of love, and thankfullness for
the free gift is all you need to enter Heaven on Earth. I'm not sure
about after death. But the sealing business is real, and I am the
only person I know who has been sealed. I will take a lie detector
test anywhere anytime - any questions. I swear in the name of God,
Son, and Holy spirit that what you have just read is entirely factual
and is the truth.
Now that you know who I am, I want to address some of your
theosophical sophistry. Of course It is all known - how could
prophecy be true? But within the nexus of time, you get to make
choices, so that it's nobody's fault but your own. It's just that God
is that powerful that He wants us to know it's all known and taken
care of but that our freedom to decide is the most important aspect of
our humanity. That's the image of our Creator, by the way. You get a
free pass from God's justice when you understand the sacrifice that,
remember, a miracle worker, wise beyond wisdom itself, made so that
schmucks like us get a chance to party with the rest of the eternal.
Remember the free will. Anyone who wants to take your ability to use
it away comes from the evil side. Just focus, if you must, on the
"Braveheart" aspect of what went down with Jesus. Imagine a Father
giving up his Son, and a Son giving up his life, so to create a
Spiritual Bond that outsmarted the fallen ones who are jealous of us
and who try to drag us down with them for all time. All you have to
do is live in that Love and you will lead a different life.
Now, if you'd still like to going on preaching against the only
team in the history of anything that confirms life beyond death, and
that opened up heaven to all of us universally, and that had no aim
but the highest Love for all, because it is that, then you have a
problem. A very, very big problem, which frankly defies logic. Your
intent to disprove is understandable in the sense that alot of dumb
***** happens supposedly in the name of Jesus. But it speaks of your
spiritual immaturity, and the fact that you are currently a sellout to
your Creator, and a free gift of life refuser. Try heaven on for size
and understand the Love that you don't need to earn, but without you
burn. And shut your mouth against my Tribe, because you're talking
against the only chance you've ever had. Trust me. If you don't, you
won't be happy. And test me with the lie detector. I beg you. I'll
pay for it and I'll travel for you, and we'll video tape it and you
will be the unbeliever who has no choice. Either I am lying, or I
actually believe what has happened is the truth. If I can be trusted
that what I have said is the truth as know it, how will you explain
the fact that these things happened to me before I was ever exposed to
Revelation? It'll all be confirmed in any series of lie detector
tests. Don't forget that there are powers stronger than anything that
are on your side, quietly awaiting for you to give up your arrogance.
And God Bless *****. Cause when the ***** hits the fan, you don't want
to be *****.
Aren't you just the stupid *****.
--
__________
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
12 Sep 2004 04:20:25 PM |
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Brent Schomer wrote:
Well you'd have to establish that there even was a Jesus to make a
statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED OF
EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your hopelessly
clogged-up excuse for a brain?
I snipped....
My name is Brent Schomer. I have been sealed and was fully aware when
it took place in mid August of 2002. I was pulled up through a tunnel
of light just as I was about to fall asleep.
Hell I get that a lot.
Doesn't mean a thing.
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
Skype callto://hellward
.
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| User: "Puck Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
08 Sep 2004 04:24:31 PM |
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On 8 Sep 2004 09:06:08 -0700, (Brent Schomer)
wrote:
Well you'd have to establish that there even was a Jesus to make a
statement like that and once again **YOU'VE OFFERED NOT A SHRED OF
EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTION**! How many more times must I
repeat this exact thing before it starts to permeate your hopelessly
clogged-up excuse for a brain?
I snipped....
My name is Brent Schomer. I have been sealed and was fully aware when
it took place in mid August of 2002.
Very nice for you, I am sure, but; How is that evidence for anything,
except perhaps, your own over active imagination, and gullibility?
--
Puck Greenman
#162
BAAWA Knight.
Blesed is the self righteous xtian,
for his is the sure and certain knowledge
that no matter what load of tripe he
comes out with:
God told him to say it.
.
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
08 Sep 2004 01:14:45 PM |
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On 8 Sep 2004 09:06:08 -0700, (Brent Schomer) wrote:
Either I am lying, or I
actually believe what has happened is the truth.
This in no way distinguishes you from any psychotic or charlatan ever heard from,
these thousands of years since such stories have begun to be set down in writing.
If there were, in fact, a Heaven, and its Chief of State wanted mere mortals to know
about and believe in Her existence, wouldn't it be sensible, just from a practical
pov, to send sane-sounding heralds? You know, you might have it all wrong. You
may find yourself punished eternally for betraying the Almighty's state secrets,
so gratuitously vouchsafed to you. Quick! Look behind you!
--
/Apostate
atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; Billions Served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
For e-mail, hold that tiger!
.
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| User: "Brent Schomer" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
08 Sep 2004 07:57:17 PM |
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Apostate <Apostate.invalid@yeehaw.org> wrote in message news:<teiuj0p48bpj59rvljea6rorgg90dkn2fs@4ax.com>...
On 8 Sep 2004 09:06:08 -0700, (Brent Schomer) wrote:
Either I am lying, or I
actually believe what has happened is the truth.
This in no way distinguishes you from any psychotic or charlatan ever heard from,
these thousands of years since such stories have begun to be set down in writing.
If there were, in fact, a Heaven, and its Chief of State wanted mere mortals to know
about and believe in Her existence, wouldn't it be sensible, just from a practical
pov, to send sane-sounding heralds? You know, you might have it all wrong. You
may find yourself punished eternally for betraying the Almighty's state secrets,
so gratuitously vouchsafed to you. Quick! Look behind you!
That's really funny! I like clever people who aren't too serious.
You may be one of the 144,000 in waiting. There's one thing that I
feel is wise to tell you. It works through the love and faith first.
The book is there because people who witnessed it would never let the
story die. How could they if it was real? It is also very probable
that bad people would alter stories for their own diabolical vanity.
Anyone with half a brain knows that. I would actually recommend
Mushrooms and Deepak Chopra to most atheists for starters.
Jesus while on Earth was a very sane sounding Herald. And then the
fact that he was the human incarnation of your very Creator who came
to die physically as a human for us; it doesn't get more in your face
than any of that. That's why it's the truth. It happened just
exactly as a person like you needs it to. So I'm not sure I
understand how you could come up with a more factual way for people to
relax and enjoy this trip of life which they had rejected for bad
things. Get there and show some respect to your Creator first if you
want to see some proof. Accept the free gift first and watch what
happens. It can't hurt you to try. It's tough on your ego at first,
but the strength is the truest strength that you will recognize when
it hits you. Believe me, I avoid churches, and I probably always
will. You sound like a cool person.
--
/Apostate
atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; Billions Served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
For e-mail, hold that tiger!
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
08 Sep 2004 08:11:17 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Brent Schomer:
<snip>
Jesus while on Earth was a very sane sounding Herald.
Liar! Do you have evidence for this?
And then the
fact that he was the human incarnation of your very Creator who came
to die physically as a human for us;
Pagan *****. Are you aware of how many Godman Savior stories there
have been throughout human history? Compare that to how many Godman
Savior stories there were before humans evolved...
it doesn't get more in your face
than any of that.
It's Christians that are "in my face". I want them out.
That's why it's the truth.
Actually it's just a baseless assertion, enforced by centuries of
torture, murder and mayhem.
It happened just
exactly as a person like you *needs* it to.
You mispelled "wants".
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that
intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree?
Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. "You eat this apple, you're going to
be as smart as God. We can't have that."
[Frank Zappa]
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
08 Sep 2004 11:21:56 AM |
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On Wed 08 Sep 2004 11:06:08a, (Brent Schomer)
kicked back with a beer, ruminated at length, fell asleep, woke up, lit
up a joint, then fell asleep again after thoughtfully blurting out:
The Book of Revelation does not describe any experience similar to what
you describe. I'm not sure what you think it has to do with Revelation,
except that you connected your dream *after the fact* with certain
allegorical things in Revelation.
That is, there is no way you could have read Revelation and known that a
person might undergo an experience like what you had. What you did
instead was experience a dream -- no evidence that it was anything more
than a particularly vivid dream, by the way -- and then create an ad hoc
interpretation of Revelation that fits with your dream. That is no
evidence that what you experienced was anything more than your own
imagination. I don't think you're lying about your experience; but
there's no reason to think that it was anything out of the ordinary.
If you had woken up, went out in the street, and then your newfound
power was revealed, then you might have something. Your power only
showed up in a later dream, however, which implies that it was something
that exists only in your mind and not in the real world.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
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| User: "Brent Schomer" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
08 Sep 2004 08:01:19 PM |
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Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<Xns955E74C223C57Mekkala@199.45.49.11>...
On Wed 08 Sep 2004 11:06:08a, (Brent Schomer)
kicked back with a beer, ruminated at length, fell asleep, woke up, lit
up a joint, then fell asleep again after thoughtfully blurting out:
The Book of Revelation does not describe any experience similar to what
you describe. I'm not sure what you think it has to do with Revelation,
except that you connected your dream *after the fact* with certain
allegorical things in Revelation.
144000 will be sealed. If you don't know that part of the book of
revelation, find it. It's plain and simple. I'm not even going to
look up the numbers for you.
That is, there is no way you could have read Revelation and known that a
person might undergo an experience like what you had. What you did
instead was experience a dream -- no evidence that it was anything more
than a particularly vivid dream, by the way -- and then create an ad hoc
interpretation of Revelation that fits with your dream. That is no
evidence that what you experienced was anything more than your own
imagination. I don't think you're lying about your experience; but
there's no reason to think that it was anything out of the ordinary.
If you had woken up, went out in the street, and then your newfound
power was revealed, then you might have something. Your power only
showed up in a later dream, however, which implies that it was something
that exists only in your mind and not in the real world.
You are correct in being skeptical; however, you are incorrect in your
statement about this experience being not out of the ordinary. You
have also failed to explain how my imagination conjured images of
receiving the iron rod as well as the seal within the forehead before
I had any knowledge or exposure to such imagery. That's what a lie
detector test is for. Regardless of Christianity, it would show a
major psychic spiritual event that proves foreknowledge/etc. You can
trust what I say. I don't lie. Believe me when I tell you, even some
so called Christians don't/won't/haven't believed me. You are not
alone.
.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
09 Sep 2004 12:31:15 PM |
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On Wed 08 Sep 2004 08:01:19p, (Brent Schomer)
kicked back with a beer, ruminated at length, fell asleep, woke up, lit
up a joint, then fell asleep again after thoughtfully blurting out:
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns955E74C223C57Mekkala@199.45.49.11>...
On Wed 08 Sep 2004 11:06:08a, (Brent
Schomer) kicked back with a beer, ruminated at length, fell asleep,
woke up, lit up a joint, then fell asleep again after thoughtfully
blurting out:
The Book of Revelation does not describe any experience similar to
what you describe. I'm not sure what you think it has to do with
Revelation, except that you connected your dream *after the fact*
with certain allegorical things in Revelation.
144000 will be sealed. If you don't know that part of the book of
revelation, find it. It's plain and simple. I'm not even going to
look up the numbers for you.
I probably know the Book of Revelation ten times better than you ever will,
friend. I know about the 144,000. However, the Book of Revelation does
not describe the actual sealing, or tell us what kind of experience it is.
YOU interpreted that "sealing" to be something like what you dreamed. You
simply had a dream experience that could be interpreted as something
similar to the sealing in the Book of Revelation, and since you want to
believe that you were specially sealed to God, you gladly interpret both
Revelation and your dream to mean the same thing.
That is, if I dream that an old man laid his hand on my shoulder and gave
me permission to "rest", and then later read about the Buddhist belief in
Nirvana, I could interpret my dream to mean that I will achieve Nirvana at
the end of this life. Does that mean that my dream was actually a sign of
that? Of course not. All it means is that I successfully rationalized
both my dream and the belief in Nirvana so that the two appeared to refer
to the same thing.
You have done the same, and wrongly imagine that you've proved that you
have been sealed to God as spoken of in the Book of Revelation. You've
proved no such thing, but your rationalization makes enough sense to you
that you imagine that you have.
That is, there is no way you could have read Revelation and known
that a person might undergo an experience like what you had. What
you did instead was experience a dream -- no evidence that it was
anything more than a particularly vivid dream, by the way -- and then
create an ad hoc interpretation of Revelation that fits with your
dream. That is no evidence that what you experienced was anything
more than your own imagination. I don't think you're lying about
your experience; but there's no reason to think that it was anything
out of the ordinary.
If you had woken up, went out in the street, and then your newfound
power was revealed, then you might have something. Your power only
showed up in a later dream, however, which implies that it was
something that exists only in your mind and not in the real world.
You are correct in being skeptical; however, you are incorrect in your
statement about this experience being not out of the ordinary. You
have also failed to explain how my imagination conjured images of
receiving the iron rod as well as the seal within the forehead before
I had any knowledge or exposure to such imagery. That's what a lie
detector test is for. Regardless of Christianity, it would show a
major psychic spiritual event that proves foreknowledge/etc. You can
trust what I say. I don't lie. Believe me when I tell you, even some
so called Christians don't/won't/haven't believed me. You are not
alone.
Again, I did not say you are lying. I don't find it hard to believe at all
that you had that dream. However, you wrongly imagine that your dream is
what is spoken of in Revelation. It *could* be, I'll grant; but that's no
better than a wild guess, because it could also be a thousand other things
that are completely unrelated, not the least of which is a phenomenon we've
observed and know a great deal about, which is the ability of the human
mind to imagine very vivid things.
The Book of Revelation does not say that the 144,000 will receive a spear
without a tip, nor does it say that a beam of light will seal them between
their eyes. It doesn't even say that the 144,000 are the same as the "ones
who overcome", who are the ones who receive an iron rod (what you
interpreted to be the same as a spear without a tip, an interpretation that
may be valid but is not known to be).
You imagine that I'm calling you a liar, or refusing to accept the obvious,
or something of that sort. Instead, I am telling you that just because it
is *possible* to interpret evidence to mean a certain thing, that does not
mean that the evidence actually proves that thing. In fact, it tells us
almost nothing until we can demonstrate that the evidence cannot reasonably
signify anything other than what we think it proves.
Did you know that sugar does not exacerbate hyperactivity? It seems like
half of the mothers in this nation believe that it does. Why do they
believe that? Because they've heard that sugar makes their kids act up,
and so when their kids act up after eating something sweet, they imagine
that it's confirming evidence that sugar has that effect. What they
*don't* notice is all the times that their kids eat sugar and *don't* act
up, or the times that their kids act up without eating any sugar.
Because of this kind of selectivity, in which we notice things that confirm
our beliefs but ignore the things that don't confirm them, humans quite
often see correlations that are not there. In fact, researchers have shown
college students columns of random numbers, with one labeled "arthritis
pain" and another labeled "barometric pressure", and the students have
found "evidence" in those columns of random numbers that changes in
barometric pressure cause arthritic aches and pains. Obviously those
numbers show no such correlation, since they're random -- but the students
thought that they did because they had heard all their lives that athritic
pain changes with the weather. They saw numbers that seemed to support
this idea and ignored all the sets that did not support it.
You are doing much the same thing. You dreamed this dream and it had a
powerful effect on you. Later, you read Revelation and noticed things in
Revelation that seemed to support the idea that your dream was about being
"sealed". You noticed that the "ones who overcome" receive an iron rod,
and you remembered your spear without a tip. You read about seals and
remembered the beam of light that traced a pattern between your eyes. You
read about battling demons and remembered your dream battle against the
evil person. These indications and more led you to believe that this was
what your dream was about -- because you wanted to believe that. NOT
because your dream was actually sufficiently precise to prove any such
thing.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
.
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| User: "Brent Schomer" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
09 Sep 2004 10:11:22 PM |
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Guess what - I also have a symmetrical oval birthmark on my thigh.
And the dates of my birthday 7/2/72 seem to add up to 144 real nicely.
The numerology of 72 equals "Va" which is "cloud" so "Va" "Va" means
clouds. What is 1000 or three zeros in numerology? Who is the
rider on the white horse, according to Revelation? Who is it
according to men who have taken license to decide who that is? Do
you know Revelation academically or spiritually? I'm glad you know it
ten times better than me, truthfully. Who wants to be better than
everyone else anyway? Do you want to be better than me at something?
Why?
Mekkala, Do you hope that what I have relayed to you is true, or do
you hope that it is untrue? Why? Don't say you're hopeless.
I was also visited by God in 1997, who gave me some major visionary
advice that scared the ***** out of me. I was fully awake and standing
next to my brother at the time. He could not see, but I tried my best
to relay what I was seeing at the time. A few days later an event
happened that uncannily and beyond doubt tied perfectly into what I
relayed to my brother - it happened to both of us while we were
together. I have plenty more.
OK. So according to you I'm stranger and stranger. A wack job. And
according to Christian traditionalists I'm a wack job, too. But to a
forward looking person like me who knows that this thread will be
scrutinized when I do what I have to do, it is perfect; have a
conversation with an educated atheist who represents the normal human
faithlessness, knowing that it will be part of the way people will
know me. Thank you for playing your part, Mekkala. And God Bless
You. You have just spoken with the rider on the white horse. You're
a good one. Everyone knows that sugar thing is a joke. But the pop
rocks and coke thing is real. You haven't seen Mikey in anything have
you?
Since yMekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<Xns955F8095D252Mekkala@199.45.49.11>...
On Wed 08 Sep 2004 08:01:19p, (Brent Schomer)
kicked back with a beer, ruminated at length, fell asleep, woke up, lit
up a joint, then fell asleep again after thoughtfully blurting o
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns955E74C223C57Mekkala@199.45.49.11>...
On Wed 08 Sep 2004 11:06:08a, (Brent
Schomer) kicked back with a beer, ruminated at length, fell asleep,
woke up, lit up a joint, then fell asleep again after thoughtfully
blurting out:
The Book of Revelation does not describe any experience similar to
what you describe. I'm not sure what you think it has to do with
Revelation, except that you connected your dream *after the fact*
with certain allegorical things in Revelation.
144000 will be sealed. If you don't know that part of the book of
revelation, find it. It's plain and simple. I'm not even going to
look up the numbers for you.
I probably know the Book of Revelation ten times better than you ever will,
friend. I know about the 144,000. However, the Book of Revelation does
not describe the actual sealing, or tell us what kind of experience it is.
YOU interpreted that "sealing" to be something like what you dreamed. You
simply had a dream experience that could be interpreted as something
similar to the sealing in the Book of Revelation, and since you want to
believe that you were specially sealed to God, you gladly interpret both
Revelation and your dream to mean the same thing.
That is, if I dream that an old man laid his hand on my shoulder and gave
me permission to "rest", and then later read about the Buddhist belief in
Nirvana, I could interpret my dream to mean that I will achieve Nirvana at
the end of this life. Does that mean that my dream was actually a sign of
that? Of course not. All it means is that I successfully rationalized
both my dream and the belief in Nirvana so that the two appeared to refer
to the same thing.
You have done the same, and wrongly imagine that you've proved that you
have been sealed to God as spoken of in the Book of Revelation. You've
proved no such thing, but your rationalization makes enough sense to you
that you imagine that you have.
That is, there is no way you could have read Revelation and known
that a person might undergo an experience like what you had. What
you did instead was experience a dream -- no evidence that it was
anything more than a particularly vivid dream, by the way -- and then
create an ad hoc interpretation of Revelation that fits with your
dream. That is no evidence that what you experienced was anything
more than your own imagination. I don't think you're lying about
your experience; but there's no reason to think that it was anything
out of the ordinary.
If you had woken up, went out in the street, and then your newfound
power was revealed, then you might have something. Your power only
showed up in a later dream, however, which implies that it was
something that exists only in your mind and not in the real world.
You are correct in being skeptical; however, you are incorrect in your
statement about this experience being not out of the ordinary. You
have also failed to explain how my imagination conjured images of
receiving the iron rod as well as the seal within the forehead before
I had any knowledge or exposure to such imagery. That's what a lie
detector test is for. Regardless of Christianity, it would show a
major psychic spiritual event that proves foreknowledge/etc. You can
trust what I say. I don't lie. Believe me when I tell you, even some
so called Christians don't/won't/haven't believed me. You are not
alone.
Again, I did not say you are lying. I don't find it hard to believe at all
that you had that dream. However, you wrongly imagine that your dream is
what is spoken of in Revelation. It *could* be, I'll grant; but that's no
better than a wild guess, because it could also be a thousand other things
that are completely unrelated, not the least of which is a phenomenon we've
observed and know a great deal about, which is the ability of the human
mind to imagine very vivid things.
The Book of Revelation does not say that the 144,000 will receive a spear
without a tip, nor does it say that a beam of light will seal them between
their eyes. It doesn't even say that the 144,000 are the same as the "ones
who overcome", who are the ones who receive an iron rod (what you
interpreted to be the same as a spear without a tip, an interpretation that
may be valid but is not known to be).
You imagine that I'm calling you a liar, or refusing to accept the obvious,
or something of that sort. Instead, I am telling you that just because it
is *possible* to interpret evidence to mean a certain thing, that does not
mean that the evidence actually proves that thing. In fact, it tells us
almost nothing until we can demonstrate that the evidence cannot reasonably
signify anything other than what we think it proves.
Did you know that sugar does not exacerbate hyperactivity? It seems like
half of the mothers in this nation believe that it does. Why do they
believe that? Because they've heard that sugar makes their kids act up,
and so when their kids act up after eating something sweet, they imagine
that it's confirming evidence that sugar has that effect. What they
*don't* notice is all the times that their kids eat sugar and *don't* act
up, or the times that their kids act up without eating any sugar.
Because of this kind of selectivity, in which we notice things that confirm
our beliefs but ignore the things that don't confirm them, humans quite
often see correlations that are not there. In fact, researchers have shown
college students columns of random numbers, with one labeled "arthritis
pain" and another labeled "barometric pressure", and the students have
found "evidence" in those columns of random numbers that changes in
barometric pressure cause arthritic aches and pains. Obviously those
numbers show no such correlation, since they're random -- but the students
thought that they did because they had heard all their lives that athritic
pain changes with the weather. They saw numbers that seemed to support
this idea and ignored all the sets that did not support it.
You are doing much the same thing. You dreamed this dream and it had a
powerful effect on you. Later, you read Revelation and noticed things in
Revelation that seemed to support the idea that your dream was about being
"sealed". You noticed that the "ones who overcome" receive an iron rod,
and you remembered your spear without a tip. You read about seals and
remembered the beam of light that traced a pattern between your eyes. You
read about battling demons and remembered your dream battle against the
evil person. These indications and more led you to believe that this was
what your dream was about -- because you wanted to believe that. NOT
because your dream was actually sufficiently precise to prove any such
thing.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
10 Sep 2004 07:44:46 AM |
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"Brent Schomer" <brentschomer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:879abff.0409091911.6fb98376@posting.google.com...
Guess what - I also have a symmetrical oval birthmark on my thigh.
Waaaaaaaay too much information.
BTW, you're a looney!
--
__________
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
10 Sep 2004 02:46:20 AM |
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On 9 Sep 2004 20:11:22 -0700, (Brent Schomer) wrote:
Guess what - I also have a symmetrical oval birthmark on my thigh.
Enough of you, crank.
<plonk>
--
/Apostate
atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; Billions Served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
For e-mail, hold that tiger!
.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
10 Sep 2004 11:18:02 AM |
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On Thu 09 Sep 2004 10:11:22p, (Brent Schomer)
kicked back with a beer, ruminated at length, fell asleep, woke up, lit
up a joint, then fell asleep again after thoughtfully blurting out:
Guess what - I also have a symmetrical oval birthmark on my thigh.
And? I have a symmetrical round birthmark on my left buttock. Lots of
people have birthmarks. Is that supposed to prove something?
And the dates of my birthday 7/2/72 seem to add up to 144 real nicely.
Wonderful. So what?
The numerology of 72 equals "Va" which is "cloud" so "Va" "Va" means
clouds. What is 1000 or three zeros in numerology? Who is the
rider on the white horse, according to Revelation? Who is it
according to men who have taken license to decide who that is? Do
you know Revelation academically or spiritually? I'm glad you know it
ten times better than me, truthfully. Who wants to be better than
everyone else anyway? Do you want to be better than me at something?
Why?
I know Revelation both academically and spiritually. I was a Christian
studying for the ministry until I was 19/20, at which time I became an
atheist due to the irresolvable ridiculousness of religion.
I don't "want to be better than you". You blithely assumed that I don't
believe you because I "don't know that part of Revelation". I was
correcting your sad misconception.
Mekkala, Do you hope that what I have relayed to you is true, or do
you hope that it is untrue? Why? Don't say you're hopeless.
I hope for neither. If it is true, it is true. If it is false, it is
false.
Unlike most theists, yourself included, I don't search for a predetermined
answer. I don't decide what I want to find, and then go and find it. No,
my search for knowledge is a search for what is true, not for what I wish
to be true. You are searching for what you wish to be true, and so you
find it even where it is not.
You may have been sealed, or you may not have. The evidence you have
presented thus far, however, is only evidence that you had a dream. I
would be remiss as a freethinker and scientist if I accepted that what you
say is true based only on the evidence of a particularly vivid dream you
had.
If you want to prove that you were in fact "sealed", there is a man named
Jamed Randi who will arrange for your powers to be tested under controlled
circumstances. You can find his offer at http://www.randi.org.
If you are unwilling to be scientifically tested, or if your "powers" show
up only in dreams, or if you cannot control them at will, then if you wish
to have your claims verified, you will have to devise a controlled
scientific method to test your powers and suggest it to James Randi. He
will tell you, as a scientist, whether your suggested method will
accurately test your powers or not.
You are laboring under a very common misconception. That is, the
misconception that a set of vague, coincidental parallels between two
things proves that the two things are the same. Any scientist will tell
you that that is completely untrue, but since you want to believe what you
want to believe, you confirm your own beliefs to yourself using unclear and
practically meaningless "evidence".
I was also visited by God in 1997, who gave me some major visionary
advice that scared the ***** out of me. I was fully awake and standing
next to my brother at the time. He could not see, but I tried my best
to relay what I was seeing at the time. A few days later an event
happened that uncannily and beyond doubt tied perfectly into what I
relayed to my brother - it happened to both of us while we were
together. I have plenty more.
Yes, many people see imaginary beings that appear completely real. Dr.
John Nash was one; read up on him and you might learn something. I'm
afraid that you'll have to present proof that your visions aren't
schizophrenic hallucinations -- and the fact that you could see this "God"
but your brother could not is quite strong evidence that what you saw was
nothing but an hallucination.
OK. So according to you I'm stranger and stranger. A wack job. And
according to Christian traditionalists I'm a wack job, too. But to a
forward looking person like me who knows that this thread will be
scrutinized when I do what I have to do, it is perfect; have a
conversation with an educated atheist who represents the normal human
faithlessness, knowing that it will be part of the way people will
know me. Thank you for playing your part, Mekkala. And God Bless
You. You have just spoken with the rider on the white horse. You're
a good one. Everyone knows that sugar thing is a joke. But the pop
rocks and coke thing is real. You haven't seen Mikey in anything have
you?
A bit egotistical, are we? We've gone from being "one of the sealed" to
being the Rider on the White Horse... of which there is only one (not
144,000), and according to the typology of Revelation, is none other than
the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. So... you're Jesus Christ reborn? WOW.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
09 Sep 2004 10:14:17 PM |
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On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:11:22 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409091911.6fb98376@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
OK. So according to you I'm stranger and stranger. A wack job. And
according to Christian traditionalists I'm a wack job, too.
Take. A. Hint.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
10 Sep 2004 07:45:24 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Pf2dnXjlAceagdzcRVn-gg@megapath.net...
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:11:22 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409091911.6fb98376@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
OK. So according to you I'm stranger and stranger. A wack job. And
according to Christian traditionalists I'm a wack job, too.
Take. A. Hint.
Damn you, you owe me a keyboard! :)
--
__________
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
10 Sep 2004 08:27:56 AM |
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On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:45:24 -0400 in episode
<2qdluuFu54lsU1@uni-berlin.de> we saw our hero "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com>:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Pf2dnXjlAceagdzcRVn-gg@megapath.net...
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:11:22 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409091911.6fb98376@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
OK. So according to you I'm stranger and stranger. A wack job. And
according to Christian traditionalists I'm a wack job, too.
Take. A. Hint.
Damn you, you owe me a keyboard! :)
Hah! You owe me... <scribble> <mumble> carry the one <scribble>... 47
keyboards!
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
10 Sep 2004 09:28:32 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:S-ednav_YbtBNtzcRVn-rw@megapath.net...
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:45:24 -0400 in episode
<2qdluuFu54lsU1@uni-berlin.de> we saw our hero "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com>:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Pf2dnXjlAceagdzcRVn-gg@megapath.net...
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:11:22 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409091911.6fb98376@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
OK. So according to you I'm stranger and stranger. A wack job. And
according to Christian traditionalists I'm a wack job, too.
Take. A. Hint.
Damn you, you owe me a keyboard! :)
Hah! You owe me... <scribble> <mumble> carry the one <scribble>... 47
keyboards!
Always nice to see ones nefarious plan is still working ;)
--
__________
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
10 Sep 2004 10:32:38 AM |
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On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:28:32 -0400 in episode
<2qds0bFuk480U1@uni-berlin.de> we saw our hero "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com>:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:S-ednav_YbtBNtzcRVn-rw@megapath.net...
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:45:24 -0400 in episode
<2qdluuFu54lsU1@uni-berlin.de> we saw our hero "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com>:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Pf2dnXjlAceagdzcRVn-gg@megapath.net...
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:11:22 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409091911.6fb98376@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
OK. So according to you I'm stranger and stranger. A wack job.
And according to Christian traditionalists I'm a wack job, too.
Take. A. Hint.
Damn you, you owe me a keyboard! :)
Hah! You owe me... <scribble> <mumble> carry the one <scribble>... 47
keyboards!
Always nice to see ones nefarious plan is still working ;)
But... but... but... my poor, poor keyboard. The Enter key is all...
sticky...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
10 Sep 2004 11:10:18 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:X9ydnbl07OGLVNzcRVn-vw@megapath.net...
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:28:32 -0400 in episode
<2qds0bFuk480U1@uni-berlin.de> we saw our hero "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com>:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:S-ednav_YbtBNtzcRVn-rw@megapath.net...
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:45:24 -0400 in episode
<2qdluuFu54lsU1@uni-berlin.de> we saw our hero "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com>:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Pf2dnXjlAceagdzcRVn-gg@megapath.net...
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:11:22 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409091911.6fb98376@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
OK. So according to you I'm stranger and stranger. A wack job.
And according to Christian traditionalists I'm a wack job, too.
Take. A. Hint.
Damn you, you owe me a keyboard! :)
Hah! You owe me... <scribble> <mumble> carry the one <scribble>... 47
keyboards!
Always nice to see ones nefarious plan is still working ;)
But... but... but... my poor, poor keyboard. The Enter key is all...
sticky...
Too bad I didn't keep my own VAIO keyboard. I could have sent it to you :)
--
__________
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
08 Sep 2004 09:45:44 PM |
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On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 18:01:19 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409081619.148c51f8@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
You are correct in being skeptical;
No *****.
however, you are incorrect in your
statement about this experience being not out of the ordinary.
Wanna bet?
You have
also failed to explain how my imagination conjured images of receiving the
iron rod as well as the seal within the forehead before I had any
knowledge or exposure to such imagery.
A couple of things are possible. For one, the idea that you've "never been
exposed" to imagery from Christian religion is silly. If you grew up in an
English speaking country, you were immersed in that imagery whether you
were conscious of it or not.
Most likely, however, is that being memory is reconstructive, you
"remember" things that weren't part of the dream. Happens to people all
the time. You want to believe the dream fits the book of Revelation so you
"remember" things that will make it fit. Whether the dream actually had
any of those things in them is an open question.
That's what a lie detector test is
for.
Lie detectors are useless and prove nothing.
Regardless of Christianity, it would show a major psychic spiritual
event that proves foreknowledge/etc.
Not at all. It just shows that memory is malleable. Your current memory of
the dream and the actual dream are not likely to be the same thing at all.
You can trust what I say. I don't
lie.
So what? No matter how truthful you're being, the memory of the dream you
have now is probably only barely connected to the actual dream you had.
Believe me when I tell you, even some so called Christians
don't/won't/haven't believed me. You are not alone.
Well, take a hint.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
08 Sep 2004 09:37:08 PM |
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On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:06:08 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409080806.f7b53ea@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
I will take a lie detector test anywhere anytime - any questions.
I swear in the name of God, Son, and Holy spirit that what you have just
read is entirely factual and is the truth.
So what? You had a dream. Big deal. People have dreams all the time.
Whoopee.
Don't. Care.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
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| User: "Brent Schomer" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
09 Sep 2004 08:37:28 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message news:<RcCdnXgvrPpPXKLcRVn-ow@megapath.net>...
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:06:08 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409080806.f7b53ea@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
I will take a lie detector test anywhere anytime - any questions.
I swear in the name of God, Son, and Holy spirit that what you have just
read is entirely factual and is the truth.
So what? You had a dream. Big deal. People have dreams all the time.
Whoopee.
Don't. Care.
I've had all sorts of dreams - Lucid, Symbolic, Prophetic, etc. The
fact that this experience was juxtaposed with a lucid dream makes me
very confident in reporting that it was real. I'm very skeptical of
any experience like this, and there is still a part of me that
sometimes thinks I was being messed with by alien intelligences (not
really, but that would be the only other explanation in my mind).
That's how real it was. I was fully present and I could feel and see
and touch my body as if I were sitting here now. I have never before
and never after experienced anything close to as real. If it was
real, you should care deeply, because the very event itself heralds a
whole sequence of events that determine our collective fate - maybe.
I'm not the type of guy who is a Christian in everyone's face, except
when someone asks for proof which is why I responded to the guy
intially who was doggin' the 144000. I believe my experience with a
lie detector coupled with tough question asking will satisfy people.
I am fully aware that this would be hard to believe by people who call
themselves atheists, who have invested time and energy into their
position. I believe I had this experience because I never lie to
people, and I have always been a lover of truth over fiction. I can't
stand people who would call themselves Christians and then try to
legislate other people's personal behavior. I like people who are
skeptical about everything - especially I like those who are skeptics
concerning the motives of people who are clearly the lovers of money
and lust and earthly power. If things shake down the way I believe
they will, there will be a core (or corp) that believes in eternal
life, who cannot stand the greed of those who have put their own wild
lust ahead of our natural way of abundance and love, and will
remarkably, tangibly, and stupendously come together to quite honestly
destroy the slave drivers with the help of what an atheist might
consider other wordly or miraculous intervention. For the time being,
my job is to try to let people know that we are not just meat, and to
let love rule their lives, and that if they need proof, read the new
testament and see how it feels to read it. It's pretty straight
forward what went down with Jesus. Again, the bastards who have used
Jesus's name for evil are not what we are concerned with. Anyone with
a scientific brain will incorporate other people's first hand accounts
into their own assessments - otherwise they are not true to their own
method as others have used it. Don't just let unbelief be your
religion. At least be open and investigate. Trust is a powerful
ally, and when someone breaks it, you know they are not a true person
of the spirit. At one point you have to decide whether you're going
to trust in the reports of the people who say that treating others how
you would want to be treated and loving God for all of this beauty and
forgetting about the lust for money is who you side with, or the
endlessly and obviously fruitless research of a constantly money
drainingly vain attempt to throw metal into space and convince others
it's going to make a ***** of a difference if the government research
dollars just keep coming in. That's Diabolical. And once you see
who's motives are where and who's on a road to nowhere, that's when
you can get on the road to somehwere.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
09 Sep 2004 09:05:29 AM |
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"Brent Schomer" <brentschomer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:879abff.0409090537.6e95ec64@posting.google.com...
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:<RcCdnXgvrPpPXKLcRVn-ow@megapath.net>...
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:06:08 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409080806.f7b53ea@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
I will take a lie detector test anywhere anytime - any questions.
I swear in the name of God, Son, and Holy spirit that what you have
just
read is entirely factual and is the truth.
So what? You had a dream. Big deal. People have dreams all the time.
Whoopee.
Don't. Care.
I've had all sorts of dreams
That's nice, dear. Now go tell someone who cares.
--
__________
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "Brent Schomer" |
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| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
09 Sep 2004 03:51:17 PM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message news:<2qb694Ft3v2dU1@uni-berlin.de>...
"Brent Schomer" <brentschomer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:879abff.0409090537.6e95ec64@posting.google.com...
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:<RcCdnXgvrPpPXKLcRVn-ow@megapath.net>...
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:06:08 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409080806.f7b53ea@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
I will take a lie detector test anywhere anytime - any questions.
I swear in the name of God, Son, and Holy spirit that what you have
just
read is entirely factual and is the truth.
So what? You had a dream. Big deal. People have dreams all the time.
Whoopee.
Don't. Care.
I've had all sorts of dreams
That's nice, dear. Now go tell someone who cares.
That's what I'm trying to do, isn't it? Why don't you care?
.
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| User: "Apostate" |
|
| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
09 Sep 2004 05:12:32 PM |
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On 9 Sep 2004 13:51:17 -0700, (Brent Schomer) wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message news:<2qb694Ft3v2dU1@uni-berlin.de>...
"Brent Schomer" < > wrote in message
news:879abff.0409090537.6e95ec64@posting.google.com...
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:<RcCdnXgvrPpPXKLcRVn-ow@megapath.net>...
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:06:08 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409080806.f7b53ea@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
(Brent Schomer):
I will take a lie detector test anywhere anytime - any questions.
I swear in the name of God, Son, and Holy spirit that what you have
just
read is entirely factual and is the truth.
So what? You had a dream. Big deal. People have dreams all the time.
Whoopee.
Don't. Care.
I've had all sorts of dreams
That's nice, dear. Now go tell someone who cares.
That's what I'm trying to do, isn't it? Why don't you care?
It's that sane-sounding herald thing.
Come back when you can pull it off (and without rhetorical crutches like holding
onto the 'reality' of polygraph lie-detection. You gotta at least *try* to work
within the marks' consensus reality.)
--
/Apostate
atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; Billions Served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
For e-mail, hold that tiger!
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
09 Sep 2004 08:19:57 PM |
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On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 13:51:17 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409091251.1c7c48e3@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:<2qb694Ft3v2dU1@uni-berlin.de>...
"Brent Schomer" <brentschomer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:879abff.0409090537.6e95ec64@posting.google.com...
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:<RcCdnXgvrPpPXKLcRVn-ow@megapath.net>...
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:06:08 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409080806.f7b53ea@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
I will take a lie detector test anywhere anytime - any questions.
I swear in the name of God, Son, and Holy spirit that what you
have
just
read is entirely factual and is the truth.
So what? You had a dream. Big deal. People have dreams all the time.
Whoopee.
Don't. Care.
I've had all sorts of dreams
That's nice, dear. Now go tell someone who cares.
That's what I'm trying to do, isn't it? Why don't you care?
Do you even know *where you are?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
10 Sep 2004 07:43:05 AM |
|
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:-cWdnaKUsPennNzcRVn-vw@megapath.net...
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 13:51:17 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409091251.1c7c48e3@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:<2qb694Ft3v2dU1@uni-berlin.de>...
"Brent Schomer" <brentschomer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:879abff.0409090537.6e95ec64@posting.google.com...
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:<RcCdnXgvrPpPXKLcRVn-ow@megapath.net>...
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:06:08 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409080806.f7b53ea@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
I will take a lie detector test anywhere anytime - any questions.
I swear in the name of God, Son, and Holy spirit that what you
have
just
read is entirely factual and is the truth.
So what? You had a dream. Big deal. People have dreams all the
time.
Whoopee.
Don't. Care.
I've had all sorts of dreams
That's nice, dear. Now go tell someone who cares.
That's what I'm trying to do, isn't it? Why don't you care?
Do you even know *where you are?
LOL, I don't think so :)
--
__________
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
09 Sep 2004 09:55:54 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 06:37:28 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409090537.6e95ec64@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:<RcCdnXgvrPpPXKLcRVn-ow@megapath.net>...
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:06:08 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409080806.f7b53ea@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
I will take a lie detector test anywhere anytime - any questions.
I swear in the name of God, Son, and Holy spirit that what you have
just
read is entirely factual and is the truth.
So what? You had a dream. Big deal. People have dreams all the time.
Whoopee.
Don't. Care.
I've had all sorts of dreams - Lucid, Symbolic, Prophetic, etc. The fact
that this experience was juxtaposed with a lucid dream makes me very
confident in reporting that it was real. I'm very skeptical of any
experience like this, and there is still a part of me that sometimes
thinks I was being messed with by alien intelligences (not really, but
that would be the only other explanation in my mind). That's how real it
was. I was fully present and I could feel and see and touch my body as if
I were sitting here now. I have never before and never after experienced
anything close to as real.
So what? Dreams can be like that. Big deal.
Besides, there's no reason to believe your memory of the dream is
accurate. Memory is reconstructive.
If it was real, you should care deeply,
because the very event itself heralds a whole sequence of events that
determine our collective fate - maybe. I'm not the type of guy who is a
Christian in everyone's face, except when someone asks for proof which is
why I responded to the guy intially who was doggin' the 144000. I believe
my experience with a lie detector
There is *no *such *thing as a "lie detector." The polygraph cannot detect
"lies." Never could.
Besides, who cares you're telling "the truth?" That doesn't mean your
memories of the dream reflect the actual dream.
And it's still just a *dream.
coupled with tough question asking will
satisfy people. I am fully aware that this would be hard to believe by
people who call themselves atheists, who have invested time and energy
into their position. I believe I had this experience because I never lie
to people, and I have always been a lover of truth over fiction. I can't
stand people who would call themselves Christians and then try to
legislate other people's personal behavior. I like people who are
skeptical about everything - especially I like those who are skeptics
concerning the motives of people who are clearly the lovers of money and
lust and earthly power. If things shake down the way I believe they will,
there will be a core (or corp) that believes in eternal life, who cannot
stand the greed of those who have put their own wild lust ahead of our
natural way of abundance and love, and will remarkably, tangibly, and
stupendously come together to quite honestly destroy the slave drivers
with the help of what an atheist might consider other wordly or miraculous
intervention. For the time being, my job is to try to let people know
that we are not just meat, and to let love rule their lives, and that if
they need proof, read the new testament and see how it feels to read it.
I've read the NT. It "feels" like a mythology. And not even very good
literature.
It's pretty straight forward what went down with Jesus. Again, the
bastards who have used Jesus's name for evil are not what we are
concerned with. Anyone with a scientific brain will incorporate other
people's first hand accounts into their own assessments - otherwise they
are not true to their own method as others have used it. Don't just let
unbelief be your religion.
At least be open and investigate.
You go first.
Trust is a powerful
ally, and when someone breaks it, you know they are not a true person of
the spirit. At one point you have to decide whether you're going to trust
in the reports of the people who say that treating others how you would
want to be treated and loving God for all of this beauty and forgetting
about the lust for money is who you side with, or the endlessly and
obviously fruitless research of a constantly money drainingly vain attempt
to throw metal into space and convince others it's going to make a ***** of
a difference if the government research dollars just keep coming in.
That's Diabolical. And once you see who's motives are where and who's on
a road to nowhere, that's when you can get on the road to somehwere.
You had a dream.
So what?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
|
|
|
| User: "Lawrence Seib" |
|
| Title: Re: God is not much of an engineer |
09 Sep 2004 04:22:37 PM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message news:<HrOdnX-MMPlk893cRVn-vA@megapath.net>...
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 06:37:28 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409090537.6e95ec64@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:<RcCdnXgvrPpPXKLcRVn-ow@megapath.net>...
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:06:08 -0700 in episode
<879abff.0409080806.f7b53ea@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
brentschomer@hotmail.com (Brent Schomer):
I will take a lie detector test anywhere anytime - any questions.
I swear in the name of God, Son, and Holy spirit that what you have
just
read is entirely factual and is the truth.
So what? You had a dream. Big deal. People have dreams all the time.
Whoopee.
Don't. Care.
I've had all sorts of dreams - Lucid, Symbolic, Prophetic, etc. The fact
that this experience was juxtaposed with a lucid dream makes me very
confident in reporting that it was real. I'm very skeptical of any
experience like this, and there is still a part of me that sometimes
thinks I was being messed with by alien intelligences (not really, but
that would be the only other explanation in my mind). That's how real it
was. I was fully present and I could feel and see and touch my body as if
I were sitting here now. I have never before and never after experienced
anything close to as real.
So what? Dreams can be like that. Big deal.
I have had the same experience Mark, and a lucid dream
is nothing like any other dream. It entails realizing
that you are dreaming, and then your normal waking consciousness
suddenly rush to you, but you are still in the dream.
The Big deal is that it is no different than the
waking world. To me this means that everything
we think of as real, is a creation of the mind.
In the dream as in the waking world, the mind
receives stimulus, when awake, the stimu | | | | |
