Religions > Atheism > God-Lite =?iso-8859-1?Q?Doesn=92t?= Cut It Americans like a stouterbrand.
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"dgillesp" |
| Date: |
15 Jun 2005 01:02:54 PM |
| Object: |
God-Lite =?iso-8859-1?Q?Doesn=92t?= Cut It Americans like a stouterbrand. |
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/shiflett200506070747.asp
God-Lite Doesn’t Cut It Americans like a stouter brand.
By Dave Shiflett
Richmond, Va. — A new poll tells an old story: Americans are deeply
religious, especially compared to Europeans. “Religious devotion sets
the United States apart from some of its closest allies,” according to
an AP-Ipsos survey. “Nearly all U.S. respondents said faith is important
to them and only 2 percent said they do not believe in God.” Western
Europeans are the “least devout” among the people surveyed (countries
include the United States, Australia, Britain, Canada, France, Germany,
Italy, Mexico, South Korea, and Spain).
I certainly found this to be true while working on my new book, Exodus:
Why Americans are Fleeing Liberal Churches for Conservative
Christianity. In interviews with believers a consistent theme emerged.
They believers rejected the God-lite of progressive Christianity. They
desire the absolute God of tradition.
Writer Andy Ferguson encountered the lesser god while taking a class at
a West Coast Episcopal seminary. Andy sometimes argued basic Christian
beliefs with a professor. After one such discussion he repaired to the
lunchroom, where he was approached by a fellow student. “We have finally
figured out what your problem is,” the classmate said. “You are the only
one here who believes in God.” Andy thought it over and concluded: This
guy is right. Thus began a journey that recently took him into
Catholicism. In economic terms he had switched brands. It’s highly
unlikely he’ll be switching back.
Andy’s not alone. The most recent “Religious Congregations and
Membership” study, published in 2000 (the study is conducted each
decade) by the Glenmary Research Center, tells the statistical story.
Progressive churches are progressing, it seems, ever closer to oblivion.
The Presbyterian Church U.S.A. (11,106 churches) has experienced a
decline of 11.6 percent over the previous ten years; the United
Methodist Church (35,721 churches) was down 6.7 percent; and the
Episcopal Church (7,314 churches) lost 5.3 percent of its membership.
Also, the United Churches of Christ (5,863 churches) declined 14.8
percent while the American Baptist Churches USA were down 5.7 percent.
The denominations showing growth included the deeply conservative
Southern Baptist Convention, a collection of 41,514 churches, whose
overall growth rate was 5 percent. The traditionalist Presbyterian
Church in America (as opposed the mainline Presbyterian Church U.S.A.)
experienced an impressive 42.4 percent increase, while the Christian and
Missionary Alliance rose 21.8 percent. Meanwhile, the Evangelical Free
Church was up 57.2 percent, and Pentecostal denominations also boomed.
The Assemblies of God, with 11,880 churches, saw 18.5 percent growth,
while the Church of God, with 5,612 churches, saw growth of 40.2
percent.
What is behind this traditionalist rise and progressive decline? The New
York Times, in its summary of the survey, noted, "Socially conservative
churches that demand high commitment from their members grew faster than
other religious denominations in the last decade…." Glenmary director
Ken Sanchagrin told the paper he was “astounded to see that by and large
the growing churches are those that we ordinarily call conservative. And
when I looked at those that were declining, most were moderate or
liberal churches. And the more liberal the denomination, by most
people's definition, the more they were losing."
God-lite is thin beer indeed. One group of theologians has whittled the
traditional God down to 30 percent of his original power: He cannot
affect the past or future and isn’t holding all that many cards in the
present. This 30 percent god may not be powerful enough to fix a parking
ticket. For many Americans he is certainly not worth rolling out of bed
for on Sunday mornings.
To be sure, many American Christians hold views that do not always jibe
with traditional belief. Yet a substantial number of Americans — over 70
percent — believe in an “all powerful, all knowing” God who rules the
universe. While they may entertain heterodox thoughts they flock to
churches whose pulpits are built on the Rock of Ages.
One such church is the Orthodox Church, an introduction to which was
provided by the lovely and patient Frederica Matthewes-Green. Frederica
and her husband were dedicated Episcopalians; he was indeed a priest.
Yet they eventually concluded, with the help of progressive Episcopalian
bishops, that their church had passed the point of no return and as a
result they moved on to Orthodoxy.
Until meeting Frederica, my knowledge of this church was minimal,
generously speaking. But I was captivated by a short essay on composer
Igor Stravinsky (1882-1971), who returned to Orthodoxy in his 40s. This
essay told of how the great composer, on entering church, prostrated
himself on the floor before the altar and prayed — for two full hours.
That accomplished, Stravinsky rose, received the sacrament, and then
resumed prayer, this time with his head touching the stone floor.
God-lite was clearly not the object of such devotion.
I found Orthodox services to be highly mystical, at least compared to
typical Protestant gatherings. There’s a relic in the altar, incense in
the air, and the music makes full use of the minor modes. Frederica also
made a hash of the notion that traditionalist believers such as herself
“flee into orthodoxy.”
These Christians (for the record, I consider myself an itinerant
Presbyterian, with an emphasis on the itinerant) have set themselves a
demanding path. They reject the cult of the autonomous, unencumbered
self. They profess a belief in sin, and especially sexual sin, which
wins them little admiration. They submit themselves to a God stern in
His ways and harsh in his judgments, a God to which they will be
accountable one fearful day.
This God is also a great and perplexing mystery. He brought man into
being for reasons unfathomable, and with the full knowledge of what
would befall this creature made in His image. There would be endless
calamity, murder, and proud disbelief. By their reading man would reject
the greatest offering, His Son, who would suffer to an unimaginable
degree. Every trial and tear was known at the foundation of time, and
still He created and still He came.
This is a serious God. This is not a lodge brother. This appears to be
why Stravinsky prayed with his head to the stones.
Elsewhere, the pull of religious traditionalism creates other
interesting stories. Many readers of the New York Post, for instance,
were one morning shocked to read that former Beatle John Lennon had
become a devout fan of none other than televangelist Pat Robertson, to
the point of falling to his knees and touching the television screen,
apparently in hope of receiving a supernatural lift from the flickering
image. In the book Nowhere Man, Robert Rosen adds to the story, telling
us that in the late 1970s Lennon had taken to watching Billy Graham on
TV. “At first he watched only for entertainment,” Rosen wrote. “Then,
one day, he had an epiphany — he allowed himself to be touched by the
hand of Jesus Christ, and it drove him to tears of joy and ecstasy. He
drew a picture of a crucifix: he was born again, and the experience was
such a kick he had to share it with Yoko. John and Yoko sat in front of
the TV watching Billy Graham sermons. Every other sentence out of John’s
mouth was ‘Thank You, Jesus or Thank you, Lord.’”
On first reading this I thought it merely proved that living with Yoko
had driven poor John around the bend, and some critics dismissed these
stories as fabrications. Yet Lennon would not be the first popular icon
to pursue, for a time at least, the traditional version of Jesus. Bob
Dylan’s conversion to Christianity is well known, and appears to be
intact. And last year, the London Spectator informed readers that Keith
Richards, famed dope sponge and Rolling Stones guitarist, had seen the
light, perhaps thanks to the influence of wife Patti, whom biographer
Christopher Sandford calls a “devout Lutheran” and who attends a weekly
Bible study and “won’t stand for swearing around the house.” At the time
of their marriage, Patti’s parents told reporters that Richards is an
“enthusiastic disciple of Christ” who had “embraced Christ as a way of
life.”
And everyone thought Saul of Tarsus was a tough nut to crack.
The journey toward traditionalism many be unsettling to some
progressives, especially when they take into account the growing number
of pilgrims making that trek. But some stories of transformation will
touch most of us no matter what our beliefs. Let me end with one.
A Guardian story written last year by Jason Burke tells of the
evangelizing of surviving members of the Pol Pot regime. Hundreds had
been baptized by evangelical pastors over the past year in the southwest
mountain city of Pailin. "At least 2,000 of those who followed Pol Pot,
the guerrillas' former leader who died six years ago, now worship
Jesus." Seven out of ten of these converts, according to a local pastor,
took part in the extermination and forced labor campaign.
There is a quote from one convert, now in his 50s, that goes to the
heart of the matter: "When I was a soldier I did bad things. I don't
know how many we killed. We were following orders and thought it was the
right thing to do. I read the Bible and I know it will free me from the
weight of the sins I have committed." Thus the old time religion gained
a new refugee, and another hard journey led to the foot of that ancient
cross, where a large crowd continues to gather.
— Dave Shiflett is the author of Exodus: Why Americans are Leaving
Liberal Churches for Conservative Christianity.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn’t Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
15 Jun 2005 04:22:48 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:02:54 -0400, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/shiflett200506070747.asp
God-Lite Doesn’t Cut It Americans like a stouter brand.
By Dave Shiflett
Richmond, Va. — A new poll tells an old story: Americans are deeply
religious, especially compared to Europeans. “Religious devotion sets
the United States apart from some of its closest allies,” according to
an AP-Ipsos survey. “Nearly all U.S. respondents said faith is important
to them and only 2 percent said they do not believe in God.” Western
Europeans are the “least devout” among the people surveyed
How true that is. You know what else is true? The US has an
extremely high homicide rate especially compared to most countries in
Western Europe. Makes you think doesn't it? Oh - No, of course it
doesn't - sorry!
(countries
include the United States, Australia, Britain, Canada, France, Germany,
Italy, Mexico, South Korea, and Spain).
snip
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite =?iso-8859-1?Q?Doesn=92t?= Cut It Americans like a stouterbrand. |
16 Jun 2005 11:53:38 PM |
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thomas p wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:02:54 -0400, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/shiflett200506070747.asp
God-Lite Doesn’t Cut It Americans like a stouter brand.
By Dave Shiflett
Richmond, Va. — A new poll tells an old story: Americans are deeply
religious, especially compared to Europeans. “Religious devotion sets
the United States apart from some of its closest allies,” according to
an AP-Ipsos survey. “Nearly all U.S. respondents said faith is important
to them and only 2 percent said they do not believe in God.” Western
Europeans are the “least devout” among the people surveyed
How true that is. You know what else is true? The US has an
extremely high homicide rate especially compared to most countries in
Western Europe. Makes you think doesn't it? Oh - No, of course it
doesn't - sorry!
It also reminds me that Western Europe has some two thousand four
hundred years of recorded history. Perhaps they have learned a little
something from the endless wars and homicides of their centuries old
experience. In contrast the United States, an irresistible attraction
for the young, the wild and the restless, has a relatively short
history. The audacious gunslingers of the wild west have been something
of an ongoing tradition molding the attitude especially of the young
toward violence. And like most conditions in society, homicide rates
are never the result of any one single factor, but rather of a
coalescence of several of them.
Denny
(countries
include the United States, Australia, Britain, Canada, France, Germany,
Italy, Mexico, South Korea, and Spain).
snip
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn’t Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
17 Jun 2005 11:19:04 PM |
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On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:53:38 -0400, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
thomas p wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:02:54 -0400, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/shiflett200506070747.asp
God-Lite Doesn’t Cut It Americans like a stouter brand.
By Dave Shiflett
Richmond, Va. — A new poll tells an old story: Americans are deeply
religious, especially compared to Europeans. “Religious devotion sets
the United States apart from some of its closest allies,” according to
an AP-Ipsos survey. “Nearly all U.S. respondents said faith is important
to them and only 2 percent said they do not believe in God.” Western
Europeans are the “least devout” among the people surveyed
How true that is. You know what else is true? The US has an
extremely high homicide rate especially compared to most countries in
Western Europe. Makes you think doesn't it? Oh - No, of course it
doesn't - sorry!
It also reminds me that Western Europe has some two thousand four
hundred years of recorded history. Perhaps they have learned a little
something from the endless wars and homicides of their centuries old
experience.
Yes, they rejected conservative Christianity for one thing.
In contrast the United States, an irresistible attraction
for the young, the wild and the restless, has a relatively short
history. The audacious gunslingers of the wild west have been something
of an ongoing tradition molding the attitude especially of the young
toward violence. And like most conditions in society, homicide rates
are never the result of any one single factor, but rather of a
coalescence of several of them.
And it is, at the very least, unaffected by its people being so very
Christian. I love the double standard used by Christians. The
argument one hears is that atheism is evil, and, as an example, they
point out the Soviet Union, which, the claim goes, was atheist.
However, when the shortcomings of a nation that is claimed to be
strongly Christian are pointed out and compared to the much better
situation in largely secular countries (homicide being just one
example), we are told that many other factors must be considered.
Perhaps Christians should begin to consider the removal of large
pieces of lumber from their eyes.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
17 Jun 2005 11:43:11 PM |
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"thomas p" <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
And it is, at the very least, unaffected by its people being so very
Christian. I love the double standard used by Christians. The
argument one hears is that atheism is evil, and, as an example, they
point out the Soviet Union, which, the claim goes, was atheist.
However, when the shortcomings of a nation that is claimed to be
strongly Christian are pointed out and compared to the much better
situation in largely secular countries (homicide being just one
example), we are told that many other factors must be considered.
Perhaps Christians should begin to consider the removal of large
pieces of lumber from their eyes.
Bill Hicks ... ON THE UK
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to
England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false?
True! Now, in England last year, they had fourteen deaths from handguns.
FFFFFourteen. Now, the United States -- and I think you know how we feel
about handguns ... woooo, I'm getting a warm tingly feeling just saying the
fucking word, to be honest with you: I swear to you, I am hard --
*twenty-three thousand* deaths from handguns. Now let's go through those
numbers again, because they're a little baffling at first glance. England,
where no one has guns, fffffffourteen deaths. United States -- and I think
you know how we feel about guns ... woooo, I'm getting a stiffy --
twenty-three thousand deaths from handguns. But there's no connection, and
you'd be a fool and a Communist to make one. There's NO CONNECTION between
having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not
shooting someone. There have been studies made, and there is NO CONNECTION
at all there. Yes. That's absolute proof.
You know, fourteen deaths from handguns. Probably American tourists, too.
(Angry tourist voice:) 'You call this a sandwich?' BANG! BANG! 'You don't
*boil* pizza!' BANG! BANG! (Scared English voice:) 'That's the way we eat
here, that's the way we eat here!' BANG! (Tourist voice:) 'This food sucks!'
BANG!
And boy, does it suck! Okay, great: if I had a gun, I woulda been number
fifteen on that fucking list. Okay, though, admittedly, last year in
England, they had fourteen thousand deaths per every soccer game. Okay. I'm
not saying any system is flawless; I'm just saying, if you're in England,
don't go to a ***** soccer game, and you're coming home. It's weird --
they don't have guns in England, but they have a very high crime rate, which
tells you how polite the fucking English are. (English voices:) 'Give me
your wallet!' 'All right; at least no one was hurt.' How do you have a crime
rate and no weapons, man? Does a guy walk into a bank: (English voices:)
'Give me all your money! I've got a soccer ball!' '*****, Ian: that's
Spalding -- he's serious! Hand over the pounds!'
I just don't understand this blood lust, 'cause, you know, I know the world
seems really frightening at times, but I think we're gonna do okay."
----------
Hell, *how we miss you*, Bill!
You went *too fucking soon*.
Katt.
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| User: "eyelessgame" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
18 Jun 2005 09:08:04 PM |
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Katt wrote:
[snip]
You know, fourteen deaths from handguns. Probably American tourists, too.
(Angry tourist voice:) 'You call this a sandwich?' BANG! BANG! 'You don't
*boil* pizza!' BANG! BANG! (Scared English voice:) 'That's the way we eat
here, that's the way we eat here!' BANG! (Tourist voice:) 'This food sucks!'
BANG!
okay, I just had to quote this one, because I lost my soda through my
nose when contemplating boiled pizza.
eyelessgame
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| User: "Tak" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
18 Jun 2005 12:01:44 AM |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to
England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false?
True! Now, in England last year, they had fourteen deaths from handguns.
FFFFFourteen. Now, the United States -- and I think you know how we feel
about handguns ... woooo, I'm getting a warm tingly feeling just saying the
fucking word, to be honest with you: I swear to you, I am hard --
*twenty-three thousand* deaths from handguns.
Take the preacing out of the atheism newgroup.
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
18 Jun 2005 12:23:29 AM |
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"Tak" <null@null.com> wrote in message
news:l0p6b19ukutk1m0erofh4274be8ot44cj6@4ax.com...
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to
England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false?
True! Now, in England last year, they had fourteen deaths from handguns.
FFFFFourteen. Now, the United States -- and I think you know how we feel
about handguns ... woooo, I'm getting a warm tingly feeling just saying
the
fucking word, to be honest with you: I swear to you, I am hard --
*twenty-three thousand* deaths from handguns.
Take the preacing out of the atheism newgroup.
Afraid of statistics, boy?
Fine. You can have some more:
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html
Katt.
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| User: "B. Bitch" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
18 Jun 2005 03:07:00 AM |
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 00:23:29 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"Tak" <null@null.com> wrote in message
news:l0p6b19ukutk1m0erofh4274be8ot44cj6@4ax.com...
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to
England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false?
True! Now, in England last year, they had fourteen deaths from handguns.
FFFFFourteen. Now, the United States -- and I think you know how we feel
about handguns ... woooo, I'm getting a warm tingly feeling just saying
the
fucking word, to be honest with you: I swear to you, I am hard --
*twenty-three thousand* deaths from handguns.
Take the preacing out of the atheism newgroup.
Afraid of statistics, boy?
Fine. You can have some more:
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html
Katt.
Katt, sweetie -- I enjoyed the post very much. Tell Tak to go shove a
meat cleaver up his urethra.
Hugs --
Bonnie *****
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| User: "Tak" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
18 Jun 2005 08:44:59 PM |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:07:00 -0700, B. *****
<somewhere@overthe.rainbow> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 00:23:29 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"Tak" <null@null.com> wrote in message
news:l0p6b19ukutk1m0erofh4274be8ot44cj6@4ax.com...
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to
England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false?
True! Now, in England last year, they had fourteen deaths from handguns.
FFFFFourteen. Now, the United States -- and I think you know how we feel
about handguns ... woooo, I'm getting a warm tingly feeling just saying
the
fucking word, to be honest with you: I swear to you, I am hard --
*twenty-three thousand* deaths from handguns.
Take the preacing out of the atheism newgroup.
Afraid of statistics, boy?
Fine. You can have some more:
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html
Katt.
Katt, sweetie -- I enjoyed the post very much. Tell Tak to go shove a
meat cleaver up his urethra.
Hugs --
Bonnie *****
Whatever you say Mister, "plonk"
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| User: "Tak" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
18 Jun 2005 01:15:11 AM |
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 00:23:29 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
Afraid of statistics, boy?
Bored with preachers, and not a boy last I looked.
Tak a#344
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
18 Jun 2005 01:00:11 AM |
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Tak wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to
England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false?
True! Now, in England last year, they had fourteen deaths from handguns.
FFFFFourteen. Now, the United States -- and I think you know how we feel
about handguns ... woooo, I'm getting a warm tingly feeling just saying the
fucking word, to be honest with you: I swear to you, I am hard --
*twenty-three thousand* deaths from handguns.
Take the preacing out of the atheism newgroup.
In most red neck church situations they would say it this way--"Well,
she HAS quit preachin' and gone to meddlin'!" You would feel quite at
home there, what with your (cough) tolerant attitude on the subject.
Lay your piece on the table and let the Little Lady have her say.
Obviously something is horrendously wrong when we have 23,000 deaths
from handguns in a single year. Would you be willing to give up your
weapon if it would save even one life? I doubt it. The love affair
with handguns is much too strong, and as usual, "love is blind."
Denny
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
19 Jun 2005 08:01:31 PM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
....
The love affair
with handguns is much too strong, and as usual, "love is blind."
As is the love affair with deities. Wouldn't you agree, Denny?
Regards,
Josef
Everything that deceives may be said to enchant.
-- Plato
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
20 Jun 2005 01:10:00 PM |
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Josef Balluch wrote:
In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
...
The love affair
with handguns is much too strong, and as usual, "love is blind."
As is the love affair with deities. Wouldn't you agree, Denny?
Or as is the love affair with one's spouse, the one to whom you pledge
your love and loyalty? So no distinctions are to be made when it comes
to "love affairs"?
Denny
Regards,
Josef
Everything that deceives may be said to enchant.
-- Plato
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
20 Jun 2005 10:31:07 PM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
Josef Balluch wrote:
In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
...
The love affair
with handguns is much too strong, and as usual, "love is blind."
As is the love affair with deities. Wouldn't you agree, Denny?
Or as is the love affair with one's spouse, the one to whom you pledge
your love and loyalty? So no distinctions are to be made when it comes
to "love affairs"?
I haven't made such a claim.
With all the practice you get at making straw men, I would have expected
something a little less transparent.
Or do you plagiarize ALL your straw men from other sources?
Regards,
Josef
The trouble with people is not that they don't know, but that they know
so much that ain't so.
-- Henry Wheeler Shaw
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
19 Jun 2005 09:38:55 PM |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"thomas p" <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
And it is, at the very least, unaffected by its people being so very
Christian. I love the double standard used by Christians. The
argument one hears is that atheism is evil, and, as an example, they
point out the Soviet Union, which, the claim goes, was atheist.
However, when the shortcomings of a nation that is claimed to be
strongly Christian are pointed out and compared to the much better
situation in largely secular countries (homicide being just one
example), we are told that many other factors must be considered.
Perhaps Christians should begin to consider the removal of large
pieces of lumber from their eyes.
Bill Hicks ... ON THE UK
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to
England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false?
False. Same with long guns.
[]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
18 Jun 2005 07:26:15 PM |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote:
Bill Hicks ... ON THE UK
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to
England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false?
True!
False
--
Puck Greenman
The spelling, Like any opinion stated here,
is purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
Plonked by Rob Duncan
Na bister 500,000
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
19 Jun 2005 12:49:29 AM |
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"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:d7t8b1htd7i0i8ul2q502vo9gr278chgpr@4ax.com...
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote:
Bill Hicks ... ON THE UK
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to
England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false?
True!
False
Oh yeah? I saw ~200 cops policing a huge 'alternative' fair and music
festival down here a couple of weekends ago. Not a gun in sight.
Got that?
~200 cops; ~10,000 people; 0 guns.
Nex?
Katt.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
19 Jun 2005 12:55:22 AM |
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On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:49:29 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:d7t8b1htd7i0i8ul2q502vo9gr278chgpr@4ax.com...
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote:
Bill Hicks ... ON THE UK
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to
England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false?
True!
False
Oh yeah? I saw ~200 cops policing a huge 'alternative' fair and music
festival down here a couple of weekends ago. Not a gun in sight.
Got that?
~200 cops; ~10,000 people; 0 guns.
There are two cases: the armed response squads for armed robbery, and
the diplomatic/royal protection.
The ordinary bobby is unarmed.
Nex?
Katt.
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
19 Jun 2005 02:20:35 AM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ngg9b1p77chm8rngjm95f0tbdas72eup08@4ax.com...
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:49:29 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
~200 cops; ~10,000 people; 0 guns.
There are two cases: the armed response squads for armed robbery, and
the diplomatic/royal protection.
The ordinary bobby is unarmed.
Indeed. One or two Nottinghamshire housing estates excepted...!
Katt.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
19 Jun 2005 03:23:35 AM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:ngg9b1p77chm8rngjm95f0tbdas72eup08@4ax.com:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:49:29 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:d7t8b1htd7i0i8ul2q502vo9gr278chgpr@4ax.com...
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
Bill Hicks ... ON THE UK
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been
to England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True
or false? True!
False
Oh yeah? I saw ~200 cops policing a huge 'alternative' fair and music
festival down here a couple of weekends ago. Not a gun in sight.
Got that?
~200 cops; ~10,000 people; 0 guns.
There are two cases: the armed response squads for armed robbery, and
the diplomatic/royal protection.
The ordinary bobby is unarmed.
No guns, but don't they carry nightsticks?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Metaphysics is almost always an attempt to prove
the incredible by an appeal to the unintelligible."
[H.L. Mencken, "Prejudices"]
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| User: "Steve O" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
19 Jun 2005 04:58:21 PM |
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"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1119151416.a77015e728eb72637a987f0b6447d41a@teranews...
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:ngg9b1p77chm8rngjm95f0tbdas72eup08@4ax.com:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:49:29 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:d7t8b1htd7i0i8ul2q502vo9gr278chgpr@4ax.com...
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
Bill Hicks ... ON THE UK
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been
to England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True
or false? True!
False
Oh yeah? I saw ~200 cops policing a huge 'alternative' fair and music
festival down here a couple of weekends ago. Not a gun in sight.
Got that?
~200 cops; ~10,000 people; 0 guns.
There are two cases: the armed response squads for armed robbery, and
the diplomatic/royal protection.
The ordinary bobby is unarmed.
No guns, but don't they carry nightsticks?
Monadnock PR24 side handled baton, or sliding asp and CS Incapacitant is
generally the norm.
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
19 Jun 2005 07:20:53 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 03:23:35 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:ngg9b1p77chm8rngjm95f0tbdas72eup08@4ax.com:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:49:29 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:d7t8b1htd7i0i8ul2q502vo9gr278chgpr@4ax.com...
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
snip
The ordinary bobby is unarmed.
No guns, but don't they carry nightsticks?
If you would call eighteen inches of Lignum Vitae, a night stick.
I believe that some, are now armed with american style truncheon, with the side
projection, but I don't know how many.
I've never actually seen a copper, with one.
--
Puck Greenman
The spelling, Like any opinion stated here,
is purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
Plonked by Rob Duncan
Na bister 500,000
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
19 Jun 2005 09:55:52 PM |
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Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in
news:e6hbb1pe99n6scj7ijv8lhde38v4l3qf22@4ax.com:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 03:23:35 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:ngg9b1p77chm8rngjm95f0tbdas72eup08@4ax.com:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:49:29 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:d7t8b1htd7i0i8ul2q502vo9gr278chgpr@4ax.com...
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net>
wrote:
snip
The ordinary bobby is unarmed.
No guns, but don't they carry nightsticks?
If you would call eighteen inches of Lignum Vitae, a night stick.
I believe that fits the description. I certainly wouldn't want to be on
the wrong end of one.
I believe that some, are now armed with american style truncheon,
with the side projection, but I don't know how many.
I've never actually seen a copper, with one.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Metaphysics is almost always an attempt to prove
the incredible by an appeal to the unintelligible."
[H.L. Mencken, "Prejudices"]
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
19 Jun 2005 07:16:45 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:49:29 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote:
"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:d7t8b1htd7i0i8ul2q502vo9gr278chgpr@4ax.com...
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote:
Bill Hicks ... ON THE UK
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to
England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false?
True!
False
Oh yeah? I saw ~200 cops policing a huge 'alternative' fair and music
festival down here a couple of weekends ago. Not a gun in sight.
Got that?
~200 cops; ~10,000 people; 0 guns.
In sight.
All of our major cities have a core of permanently armed patrols, and Armed
Response, teams.
I would guess that even our local village station, could produce a couple of
pistols, and a Spaz, at need.
--
Puck Greenman
The spelling, Like any opinion stated here,
is purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
Plonked by Rob Duncan
Na bister 500,000
.
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| User: "Nivlem" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn't Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
18 Jun 2005 10:10:27 PM |
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:26:15 GMT, Dubh Ghall
<puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:11 GMT, "Katt" <seruhshjaudn@dfhu.net> wrote:
Bill Hicks ... ON THE UK
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to
England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false?
True!
False
Banning firearms is probably impossible in America. Guns are
too widely distributed, and too many people aren't going to
turn them in when asked, myself included. Don't you dare
deny me my vicious redneck cultural heritage. Every male
member of my family has owned at least 1 Smith & Wesson
since great grandpa Pukeface was supposedly a member of the
Wild Bunch.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn’t Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
19 Jun 2005 09:36:39 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:02:54 -0400, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/shiflett200506070747.asp
God-Lite Doesn’t Cut It Americans like a stouter brand.
Then you folks can mosey off to a garden spot in the Middle East.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite Doesn’t Cut It Americans like a stouter brand. |
15 Jun 2005 11:33:45 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:02:54 -0400, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
God-lite is thin beer indeed.
And you are thin Chesterton indeed, Denny... ;-)
That aside, If I were in your shoes, I'd take a very cautious step
back, and look a lot more closely at what these more robust supposed
Christians are actually embracing, because to this outside observer,
it seems very akin to Berlin in 1933 (think of the ending of
"Cabaret").
---
"This is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause"
- Padme Amidala, Episode III
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: God-Lite =?iso-8859-1?Q?Doesn=92t?= Cut It Americans like a stouterbrand. |
16 Jun 2005 07:51:42 PM |
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raven1 wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:02:54 -0400, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
God-lite is thin beer indeed.
And you are thin Chesterton indeed, Denny... ;-)
Actually he was borderline, if not technically, obese, according to
photos of him on the web. But in his day to be "portly" was a sign of
success and/or prosperity, but no longer. Anyways, thanks for the
compliment. :)
That aside, If I were in your shoes, I'd take a very cautious step
back, and look a lot more closely at what these more robust supposed
Christians are actually embracing, because to this outside observer,
it seems very akin to Berlin in 1933 (think of the ending of
"Cabaret").
Right on. There are always unintended dangers and abuses that accompany
religious revival, the which ought to be identified and warned against.
But shades of ancestral sin (religious) or Murphy's Law (secular), the
overzealous usually wear blinders and refuse to see the pitfalls. Maybe
that's necessary in order to keep the fires hot and the momentum going.
The corrections will have to come later.
Denny
---
"This is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause"
- Padme Amidala, Episode III
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_God-Lite_Doesn=92t_Cut_It_Americans_like_a_stouter_b?==?Windows-1252?Q?rand._?= |
16 Jun 2005 12:23:16 AM |
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TV's dgillesp wrote:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/shiflett200506070747.asp
God-Lite Doesn’t Cut It Americans like a stouter brand.
Addicts tend to need higher and higher doses of the drug to catch a buzz.
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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