| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Kevin Simonson" |
| Date: |
11 Jul 2004 02:23:07 PM |
| Object: |
God Loves Everyone (WAS: Mormons Burning) |
(Kevin Simonson) wrote in message
news:<6dfb1603.0407090812.580ae219@posting.google.com>...
==Um, Kevin... Did you even *read* that passage above?
==That doesn't say *anything* about creating man "exactly" like God.
=
= I read the passage. Sure it doesn't say anything about _creat-
=ing_ "man 'exactly' like God." By _making_ "man 'exactly' like God,"
=I thought the poster was talking about taking humanity how it current-
=ly is, and then molding it into something that would eventually be
=completely one with Jesus and His Father.
and then "Jeff Shirton" <burlington@ontario.ca> wrote in message
news:<3KzHc.38462$_V4.21338@read1.cgocable.net>...
=> Here, though, I've got to go on the record. The scripture may
=> say that God hated Esau, but God didn't hate him; God loves him.
=> God loves everyone.
=
=Kevin, where does the Bible say God loves "everyone"?
=
=Why do you think that God allowed Malachi to testify,
="Esau have I hated", and Paul to repeat it in Rom. 9?
=(Or if you don't believe God allowed it to be included
=in Scripture, what do you think happened, and what is
=your *EVIDENCE* for any such thing to have happened?)
This is unprecedented. I originally posted that somewhere in the
distant future God would make "man 'exactly' like God," and Jeff let
that statement stand, without commenting on it. Jeff, are you conced-
ing that the passages I listed do indicate that God will someday mold
man into something exactly like Himself?
But as for God loving Esau, it goes like this. Jesus in Matthew
5:44 commanded us to love our enemies. Jesus is the only man that
never sinned, so He has to keep this commandment too; He's certainly
not a hypocrite; therefore Jesus loves His enemies. Jesus is com-
pletely one with His Father, so His Father also loves His enemies.
Therefore God loves everyone.
---Kevin Simonson
"Maybe it started as a dream, but doesn't everything?"
from _James and the Giant Peach_
.
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| User: "Kevin Simonson" |
|
| Title: Re: God Loves Everyone (WAS: Mormons Burning) |
25 Jul 2004 04:58:42 AM |
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(Kevin Simonson) wrote in message
news:<6dfb1603.0407111123.40fe030b@posting.google.com>...
=> =Kevin, where does the Bible say God loves "everyone"?
=
=Let's review...
=
=My question was,
=
="Where does the *BIBLE* say God loves 'everyone'?"
=
=Not, "how does Kevin *rationalize* God's alleged love for
=everyone, by using some Scriptures and ignoring those
=which directly contradict his view.
Jeff, the only place I can think of in the Bible where it says
that God loves everyone is in Matthew 5:
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that
curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them
which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in
heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the
good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye?
do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than
others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in
heaven is perfect.
Granted, this doesn't come out and specifically say that God loves
everyone. But Jesus tells _us_ to love everyone "[t]hat [we] may be
the children of [our] Father which is in heaven," for God does do good
things to everyone; and Jesus also tells us to let our love for others
be perfect, "even as [our] Father which is in heaven is perfect." So
I'm quite convinced that Matthew 5 at least indirectly teaches that
God loves everyone.
=> =Why do you think that God allowed Malachi to testify,
=> ="Esau have I hated", and Paul to repeat it in Rom. 9?
=
=I note that you *completely* sidestepped this question, Kevin.
Sorry. To be perfectly honest I have no idea why God allowed Ma-
lachi to write that God hated Esau, or why God let Paul reemphasize
the idea in Romans 9. Still, Matthew 5 teaches us that regarding
loving people, even our enemies, we should be "perfect, even as [God]
is perfect," so I think I can safely say that God loves Esau, even
though Romans 9 contradicts that.
=Okay, I think I understand:
=
=1) It *isn't* directly found in the Bible;
=
=2) It is directly *contradicted* in the Bible (Mal. 1:3, Rom. 9:13)
= passages which you apparently refuse to address;
=
=3) You instead use human rationalization to obtain a "conclusion"
= directly contrary to what the Bible explicitly teaches.
Malachi said that God hated one man, and in Romans 9 Paul quoted
that passage from Malachi. However _Jesus Christ_ told us that, re-
garding loving people, even our enemies, we should be "perfect, even
as [our] Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5 is _also_
"what the Bible explicitly teaches." I don't feel like I'm going con-
trary to "what the Bible explicitly teaches"; I'm just focusing in
more on what Jesus taught than I am on what Paul and Malachi taught.
---Kevin Simonson
"Maybe it started as a dream, but doesn't everything?"
from _James and the Giant Peach_
.
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