On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:55:23 -0500 in alt.atheism, Eric Brze (Eric
Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:24:48 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:20:36 -0500 in alt.atheism, Eric Brze (Eric
Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:17:39 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:

<RichardNoggin@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1140712357.074981.98810@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

Denis Loubet wrote:

<RichardNoggin@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1140669751.002830.60680@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

Many go to church that don't mean that the dark one is not or can not
controll of them... You are sust trying to be God and judge all...
Judge not least ye be judged...

Dude, if the woman said God told her to, who are you to deny it?


--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com

One must know the darkness to know the light. Sorry to say she followed
the darkness instead of looking to the light. Each one of us has trials
and tribulations the fight is in ones self. Did she fight or just give
in to the easy way and then do as adam and eve and put the blame else
where then to self. Adam blamed God because God made eve he made the
one who went wrong and she dragged him in the web of deseption.

Umm, who, in the bible, told a follower to kill his own son?

That's right, the God character.

Who are you to say the God character didn't tell the woman to do what she
did?

Since that god character is a fake, obviously both you and woman are
deceived. God can never be evil. This is the most basic requirement to
be God.

But if God does it, then by that definition, it's not evil by virtue
of the fact it's God doing it, or telling you to do it, and should you
say otherwise you'd be positing a standard of "good" that's
independent of God which in this instance you appear to be claiming to
know rather better than God. Which for a Christian seems a somewhat
risky proposition.

Not a problem. If it's good because God is doing it, then it is good
for everyone to do it following God's example.

You're quite sure about that are you? I'm thinking here of the
extermination virtually all of humanity and later of an entire
civilisation, and am not entirely convinced that following God's
example in those respects would be an entirely good idea.

If it's good because
God wants me to do it, then it is good for anyone to do the same also.
I don't need an extra standard. I just need to make sure the standard
in question is the real standard of God.

Well fine s far as it goes, but I think you're missing the point.

Do you think that something is good because God does it, or God does
it because it's good?

chop up a five-year-old then you'd have no option but to regard that
as "good," no matter what your human sensibilities might tell you.

the other hand, if God only does what is good, then that means the
standard of good is external to God and His relevance to it is at
least questionable and asks the question why we need God to tell us
what's good.

As you may know this is quite an old dilemma, and Augustine did
propose a solution, which oddly enough I think unsatisfactory, but I'd
be interested to know what you think about it.

Eric Brze wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:24:48 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:20:36 -0500 in alt.atheism, Eric Brze (Eric
Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:17:39 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:

<RichardNoggin@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1140712357.074981.98810@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

Denis Loubet wrote:

<RichardNoggin@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1140669751.002830.60680@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

Many go to church that don't mean that the dark one is not or can not
controll of them... You are sust trying to be God and judge all...
Judge not least ye be judged...

Dude, if the woman said God told her to, who are you to deny it?


--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com

One must know the darkness to know the light. Sorry to say she followed
the darkness instead of looking to the light. Each one of us has trials
and tribulations the fight is in ones self. Did she fight or just give
in to the easy way and then do as adam and eve and put the blame else
where then to self. Adam blamed God because God made eve he made the
one who went wrong and she dragged him in the web of deseption.

Umm, who, in the bible, told a follower to kill his own son?

That's right, the God character.

Who are you to say the God character didn't tell the woman to do what she
did?

Since that god character is a fake, obviously both you and woman are
deceived. God can never be evil. This is the most basic requirement to
be God.

But if God does it, then by that definition, it's not evil by virtue
of the fact it's God doing it, or telling you to do it, and should you
say otherwise you'd be positing a standard of "good" that's
independent of God which in this instance you appear to be claiming to
know rather better than God. Which for a Christian seems a somewhat
risky proposition.

Not a problem. If it's good because God is doing it, then it is good
for everyone to do it following God's example. If it's good because
God wants me to do it, then it is good for anyone to do the same also.
I don't need an extra standard. I just need to make sure the standard
in question is the real standard of God.

Well, Eric, according to you Satan doesn't exist, and that "God" is
beyond the human imagination. So how do you know if:

a) "God" is doing it?
b) it is good?
c) "God" wants you to do it?
d) if it's good for everyone else?
e) it is the real standard of "God?

It could easily be that your "God" thinks it is good to chop that baby
into smaller pieces, for all you know. Of course, me being an atheist
and all, I don't think it's good for various other reasons, none of
them involving a deity. But then again, I'm just an immoral lost soul
doomed to burn for eternity.

Eric Brze wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:24:48 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:20:36 -0500 in alt.atheism, Eric Brze (Eric
Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:17:39 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:

<RichardNoggin@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1140712357.074981.98810@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

Denis Loubet wrote:

<RichardNoggin@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1140669751.002830.60680@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

Many go to church that don't mean that the dark one is not or can not
controll of them... You are sust trying to be God and judge all...
Judge not least ye be judged...

Dude, if the woman said God told her to, who are you to deny it?


--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com

One must know the darkness to know the light. Sorry to say she followed
the darkness instead of looking to the light. Each one of us has trials
and tribulations the fight is in ones self. Did she fight or just give
in to the easy way and then do as adam and eve and put the blame else
where then to self. Adam blamed God because God made eve he made the
one who went wrong and she dragged him in the web of deseption.

Umm, who, in the bible, told a follower to kill his own son?

That's right, the God character.

Who are you to say the God character didn't tell the woman to do what she
did?

Since that god character is a fake, obviously both you and woman are
deceived. God can never be evil. This is the most basic requirement to
be God.

But if God does it, then by that definition, it's not evil by virtue
of the fact it's God doing it, or telling you to do it, and should you
say otherwise you'd be positing a standard of "good" that's
independent of God which in this instance you appear to be claiming to
know rather better than God. Which for a Christian seems a somewhat
risky proposition.

Not a problem. If it's good because God is doing it, then it is good
for everyone to do it following God's example. If it's good because
God wants me to do it, then it is good for anyone to do the same also.
I don't need an extra standard. I just need to make sure the standard
in question is the real standard of God.

Well, Eric, according to you Satan doesn't exist, and that "God" is
beyond the human imagination. So how do you know if:

a) "God" is doing it?
b) it is good?
c) "God" wants you to do it?
d) if it's good for everyone else?
e) it is the real standard of "God?

It could easily be that your "God" thinks it is good to chop that baby
into smaller pieces, for all you know. Of course, me being an atheist
and all, I don't think it's good for various other reasons, none of
them involving a deity. But then again, I'm just an immoral lost soul
doomed to burn for eternity.