Religions > Atheism > God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jim Roberts" |
| Date: |
23 Jan 2007 03:09:17 AM |
| Object: |
God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
23 Jan 2007 05:48:44 AM |
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"Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169543357.877290.227520@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
If one insists that a 'God' exists -- while providing us with a brain, a
mind, that rejects the notion of 'His' existence; provides mankind with no
*real*, unassailable, evidence of that existence -- we can rightfully ask
the theist why 'theirs' should be designated the 'True belief' rather than
ours?
You have presented an interesting, 'alternate' view in regards to 'God'. I
just have a problem with designating 'nothingness' ... 'God'.
'Nothingness', in the world of physics is, perhaps, a difficult concept to
grasp. But the theist's 'God' would be a 'something'. And it's a 'something'
that they insist is 'out there' somewhere in existence, but have failed
completely to provide legitimate proof of. They should stop with the
charade. They're only fooling, only deceiving, themselves -- and insofar as
their 'leaders' go -- for the worst of reasons: money, 'prestige', and an
almost insatiable yearning to control wave after wave of gullible, foolish,
minds.
Greywolf
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
23 Jan 2007 01:09:38 PM |
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In alt.atheism On 23 Jan 2007 01:09:17 -0800, "Jim Roberts"
<cjdroberts@gmail.com> let us all know that:
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
Which versions are those? Please let us know.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
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| User: "Jim Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
23 Jan 2007 01:42:49 PM |
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Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 23 Jan 2007 01:09:17 -0800, "Jim Roberts"
<cjdroberts@gmail.com> let us all know that:
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
Which versions are those? Please let us know.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
M.I.T.'s Alan Guth, a pioneer of inflation theory: "I call the
universe the ultimate free lunch."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Guth
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0143-0807/11/4/008
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/links/Guth's%20Grand%20Guess.htm
Jim
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| User: "bramble" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
23 Jan 2007 10:59:09 AM |
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Jim Roberts ha escrito:
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
all this sound like nonsense to me. I say this, because it looks a
piece of metaphysics. I do not believe we can reason on metaphysical
grounds.
Bramble
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
23 Jan 2007 04:42:47 AM |
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Jim Roberts wrote:
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
I have never seen the term absolute nothingness used by any cosmology
experts so I would have to take this with a grain of salt. Just you
say, the descriptive language we have, or more properly, the best
descriptive models we have, known as quantum field theory and general
relativity break down. This is why physicists seek a better model. At
this point your term absolute nothingness is a synonym for "don't
know".
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
It isn't clear that the term as you are describing it has any relevance
to the Big Bang.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
Interesting but doesn't appear to be deduced from a sound premise ;-).
Bill
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| User: "Jim Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
23 Jan 2007 05:11:49 AM |
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wrote:
Jim Roberts wrote:
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
I have never seen the term absolute nothingness used by any cosmology
experts so I would have to take this with a grain of salt. Just you
say, the descriptive language we have, or more properly, the best
descriptive models we have, known as quantum field theory and general
relativity break down. This is why physicists seek a better model. At
this point your term absolute nothingness is a synonym for "don't
know".
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
It isn't clear that the term as you are describing it has any relevance
to the Big Bang.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
Interesting but doesn't appear to be deduced from a sound premise ;-).
Bill
Let's just reduce the whole question to a logico-philosophical one,
namely
If it exists, it is not God!
Jim
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
23 Jan 2007 05:34:42 AM |
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On 23 Jan 2007 03:11:49 -0800, "Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1169550709.361206.168860@d71g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
bill.m.thomas@gmail.com wrote:
Jim Roberts wrote:
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
I have never seen the term absolute nothingness used by any cosmology
experts so I would have to take this with a grain of salt. Just you
say, the descriptive language we have, or more properly, the best
descriptive models we have, known as quantum field theory and general
relativity break down. This is why physicists seek a better model. At
this point your term absolute nothingness is a synonym for "don't
know".
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
It isn't clear that the term as you are describing it has any relevance
to the Big Bang.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
Interesting but doesn't appear to be deduced from a sound premise ;-).
Bill
Let's just reduce the whole question to a logico-philosophical one,
namely
If it exists, it is not God!
Jim
Very "Zen"...
--
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
29 Jan 2007 11:24:07 AM |
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On 23 Jan 2007 01:09:17 -0800, "Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
What dressing would you like on your word salad?
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
29 Jan 2007 06:24:47 PM |
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On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:24:07 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <0dbsr2p5f0udtnchv6oqc7die6gj7583u7@4ax.com>
On 23 Jan 2007 01:09:17 -0800, "Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
What dressing would you like on your word salad?
Blood and wafers?
--
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
01 Feb 2007 03:04:13 PM |
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On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:54:47 +1030, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:24:07 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <0dbsr2p5f0udtnchv6oqc7die6gj7583u7@4ax.com>
On 23 Jan 2007 01:09:17 -0800, "Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
What dressing would you like on your word salad?
Blood and wafers?
Snowflakes is my guess.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
01 Feb 2007 05:16:45 PM |
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On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 13:04:13 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <ndl4s2974mla1s7m8vm70e4sat4eqkfun0@4ax.com>
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:54:47 +1030, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:24:07 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <0dbsr2p5f0udtnchv6oqc7die6gj7583u7@4ax.com>
On 23 Jan 2007 01:09:17 -0800, "Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
What dressing would you like on your word salad?
Blood and wafers?
Snowflakes is my guess.
That's dandruff from his continually scratching his head, wondering
why on earth his other hand is whizzing all over the keyboard with no
apparent input from his conscious mind.
--
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
04 Feb 2007 03:41:02 PM |
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On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 09:46:45 +1030, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 13:04:13 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <ndl4s2974mla1s7m8vm70e4sat4eqkfun0@4ax.com>
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:54:47 +1030, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:24:07 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <0dbsr2p5f0udtnchv6oqc7die6gj7583u7@4ax.com>
On 23 Jan 2007 01:09:17 -0800, "Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
What dressing would you like on your word salad?
Blood and wafers?
Snowflakes is my guess.
That's dandruff from his continually scratching his head, wondering
why on earth his other hand is whizzing all over the keyboard with no
apparent input from his conscious mind.
What a hoser!
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
23 Jan 2007 04:08:26 AM |
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On 23 Jan 2007 01:09:17 -0800, "Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1169543357.877290.227520@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
Mmm... Very Interesting!
--
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
23 Jan 2007 08:48:05 AM |
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The answer is "We just don't know" From this point one can invent anything
within his imagination!
"Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169543357.877290.227520@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: God's Non-Existence: Are Atheists scientifically the most Theist of beings? |
23 Jan 2007 09:25:13 AM |
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On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:48:05 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
The answer is "We just don't know" From this point one can invent anything
within his imagination!
Even "just don't know" is an emotionally prejudicial statement about
something there is no reason to bring up in the first place.
"Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169543357.877290.227520@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
In some versions of the Big Bang theory the Universe is the ultimate
"free lunch", that it came into existence out of absolutely nothing.
That at the moment just as the first appearance of singularity of the
Big Bang was coming into existence [descriptive language breaks down
here like the laws of Physics do], but within the Planck time of the
Age of the Universe, 10^(-43) seconds there was fleetingly a state of
absolute Nothingness.
This state of absolute Nothingness is exactly what its name suggests -
absolutely nothing: no dimensions [neither Time Space or other], no
material existence, completely undetectable, not of this Universe.
A Theist might propose that this state of Nothingness is none other
than God Himself. In other words God is absolute Nothingness. God is
Nothing.
Rewriting this point of view in another way it might be "True" for such
a theist to say
God does not Exist!
In fact God's very essence could be exactly that, that His
non-existence is at the very heart of the Truth of the Universe.
Putting this in yet another way, being Atheist, not believing in God
or His existence, might very well be the True belief that we should all
have.
.
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