Golda Meir's wisdom



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "J Young"
Date: 10 Jul 2005 11:53:40 PM
Object: Golda Meir's wisdom
At Pope Pius XII death in 1958, Golda Meir sent an eloquent message:
"We share in the grief of humanity. When fearful martyrdom came to our
people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the pope was raised
for its victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking
out about great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We
mourn a great servant of peace."
.

User: "DanielSan"

Title: Re: Golda Meir's wisdom 10 Jul 2005 11:56:33 PM
J Young wrote:

At Pope Pius XII death in 1958, Golda Meir sent an eloquent message:
"We share in the grief of humanity. When fearful martyrdom came to our
people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the pope was raised
for its victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking
out about great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We
mourn a great servant of peace."

Wherein that "peace" resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
User: "J Young"

Title: Re: Golda Meir's wisdom 11 Jul 2005 01:01:21 PM
DanielSan wrote:


Wherein that "peace" resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews.

--

.... and of course, you have more knowledge about the events of the time
than the former Israeli PM and one of the founders of the state of
Israel? Or maybe Golda was a closet anti-semite? Face it, atheists and
Jews hate the fact that the RCC saved so many lives; after all you need
someone to blame for all the worlds troubles.
.
User: "David"

Title: Re: Golda Meir's wisdom 14 Jul 2005 04:17:33 PM
J Young wrote:

DanielSan wrote:



Wherein that "peace" resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews.

--


... and of course, you have more knowledge about the events of the time
than the former Israeli PM and one of the founders of the state of
Israel?

The guy was too lazy to bother looking up who she was. Made himself
look like a fool.
.

User: "Ariadne"

Title: Re: Golda Meir's wisdom 11 Jul 2005 01:27:37 PM
J Young wrote:

DanielSan wrote:



Wherein that "peace" resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews.

--


... and of course, you have more knowledge about the events of the time
than the former Israeli PM and one of the founders of the state of
Israel? Or maybe Golda was a closet anti-semite?

[antisemitic remarks deleted]
Golda Meir was Foreign Minister at the time
and the Pope saved some Jews.
The conclusion in the Jewish Virtual Library:
Conclusion
The Pope's reaction to the Holocaust was complex and inconsistent. At
times, he tried to help the Jews and was successful. But these
successes only highlight the amount of influence he might have had, if
he not chosen to remain silent on so many other occasions. No one knows
for sure the motives behind Pius XII's actions, or lack thereof, since
the Vatican archives have only been fully opened to select researchers.
Historians offer many reasons why Pope Pius XII was not a stronger
public advocate for the Jews: A fear of Nazi reprisals, a feeling that
public speech would have no effect and might harm the Jews, the idea
that private intervention could accomplish more, the anxiety that
acting against the German government could provoke a schism among
German Catholics, the church's traditional role of being politically
neutral and the fear of the growth of communism were the Nazis to be
defeated.(33) Whatever his motivation, it is hard to escape the
conclusion that the Pope, like so many others in positions of power and
influence, could have done more to save the Jews.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html
.
User: "Malcolm"

Title: Re: Golda Meir's wisdom 11 Jul 2005 03:24:02 PM
"Ariadne" <ariadne@mac.hush.com> wrote


Whatever his motivation, it is hard to escape the
conclusion that the Pope, like so many others in positions of power and
influence, could have done more to save the Jews.

This is the big lie school of propaganda.
Pius XII was anxious to stop the war once it had become obvious that the
Axis powers were going to be defeated, and bloodshed served no purpose other
than prolonging doomed regimes. So his strategy was to try to keep lines of
communication open with both sides and negotiate a ceasefire. It wasn't
successful, partly because the allies insisted on unconditional surrender,
partly because it wasn't easy to guarantee Nazi leaders' personal safety.
You can of course argue that the Pope was wrong and that since Germany's
defeat was so total, this in fact paved the way for stable democracy. Popes
aren't infallible when it comes to diplomacy and he was only doing what he
thought was right at the time. Had the war ended after the Axis expulsion
form North Africa, millions of lives, including most of the Jewish victims,
would have been saved.
.
User: "Ariadne"

Title: Re: Golda Meir's wisdom 11 Jul 2005 04:12:00 PM
Malcolm wrote:

"Ariadne" <ariadne@mac.hush.com> wrote


Whatever his motivation, it is hard to escape the
conclusion that the Pope, like so many others in positions of power and
influence, could have done more to save the Jews.

This is the big lie school of propaganda.

Pius XII was anxious to stop the war once it had become obvious that the
Axis powers were going to be defeated, and bloodshed served no purpose other
than prolonging doomed regimes. So his strategy was to try to keep lines of
communication open with both sides and negotiate a ceasefire. It wasn't
successful, partly because the allies insisted on unconditional surrender,
partly because it wasn't easy to guarantee Nazi leaders' personal safety.
You can of course argue that the Pope was wrong and that since Germany's
defeat was so total, this in fact paved the way for stable democracy. Popes
aren't infallible when it comes to diplomacy and he was only doing what he
thought was right at the time. Had the war ended after the Axis expulsion
form North Africa, millions of lives, including most of the Jewish victims,
would have been saved.

Perhaps you would point out in the article
what is a big lie and what is propaganda.
.



User: "Paul Duca"

Title: Re: Golda Meir's wisdom 11 Jul 2005 09:37:54 PM
in article 1121101498.626726.48070@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, J Young at
youngopinions@aol.com wrote on 7/11/05 2:01 PM:



DanielSan wrote:



Wherein that "peace" resulted in the deaths of millions of Jews.

--


... and of course, you have more knowledge about the events of the time
than the former Israeli PM and one of the founders of the state of
Israel? Or maybe Golda was a closet anti-semite? Face it, atheists and
Jews hate the fact that the RCC saved so many lives;

Only because Catholic Heaven needs lots of low-paid servants...
Paul
.
User: "Docky Wocky"

Title: Re: Golda Meir's wisdom 11 Jul 2005 11:16:19 PM
paul duca sez:
" Only because Catholic Heaven needs lots of low-paid servants..."
_____________________________
Recent events would indicate that moslem Paradise attracts unpaid servants,
even suicidal servants. so which deity is conning who?
.





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