Religions > Atheism > GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason)
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
| Date: |
01 Sep 2005 09:34:11 PM |
| Object: |
GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1881 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
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| User: "dh" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 07:18:50 AM |
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"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in message
news:ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com...
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it's worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
"It doesn't make sense to me," said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. "And it's a question that certainly
we should ask."
======================================
That same thought had occurred to me. However:
- It's probably politically difficult to do this. The NOLAs will certainly
be very unhappy.
- Is it practical? We're talking about essentially abandoning or moving an
entire city. Where would they go?
If Hastert is really suggesting that we should do some hard thinking about
where we build and start moving away from building where no buildings
belong, well, for the first time in my life Hastert and I agree on
something. However, abandoning NOLA at this juncture probably won't fly.
.
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| User: "DH" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 08:56:42 AM |
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"dh" <dh@stargate.com> wrote in message
news:1125663780.b2fa3bbf1df698eebebd6202b38db12a@teranews...
"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in message
news:ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com...
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it's worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
"It doesn't make sense to me," said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. "And it's a question that certainly
we should ask."
======================================
That same thought had occurred to me. However:
- It's probably politically difficult to do this. The NOLAs will
certainly
be very unhappy.
- Is it practical? We're talking about essentially abandoning or moving
an
entire city. Where would they go?
If Hastert is really suggesting that we should do some hard thinking about
where we build and start moving away from building where no buildings
belong, well, for the first time in my life Hastert and I agree on
something. However, abandoning NOLA at this juncture probably won't fly.
I found this today:
[From the New Orleans Times-Picayune web site]
An angry Gov. Kathleen Blanco demanded that Speaker of the House Dennis
Hastert, R-Ill., apologize for his statement that it might not make sense to
rebuild New Orleans. It was "unthinkable," Blanco said, that Hastert would
"kick us when we're down. I demand an immediate apology."
I think a lot of voters would see something like this as kicking New Orleans
when it's down. We should re-examine where and how we build and what we
insure but abandoning an entire city probably isn't the way we're going to
start.
.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 12:23:48 PM |
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"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in message
news:ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com...
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
GOP = Greedy Old Pricks.
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it's worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
"It doesn't make sense to me," said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. "And it's a question that certainly
we should ask."
Sure .......... or we could hire Halliburton, under a no bid contract, to
do
the job; but they're already busy ripping us off in Iraq!
(????????????????????????????????????????? Why was it so necessary to
hire Halliburton for so many phases of work in Iraq - but the Army Corps
of
Engineers is at the lead in fixing, building or rebuilding New Orleans? )
.
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| User: "VO here@there" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP,The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 01:51:35 PM |
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ZenIsWhen wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in message
news:ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com...
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
GOP = Greedy Old Pricks.
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it's worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
"It doesn't make sense to me," said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. "And it's a question that certainly
we should ask."
Sure .......... or we could hire Halliburton, under a no bid contract, to
do
the job; but they're already busy ripping us off in Iraq!
(????????????????????????????????????????? Why was it so necessary to
hire Halliburton for so many phases of work in Iraq - but the Army Corps
of
Engineers is at the lead in fixing, building or rebuilding New Orleans? )
Have you ever bid on a Government contract? No.
Have you ever worked for a company as part of a government contract? No.
Have you ever done anything positive? No.
That is why practically everything you post has all the earmarks of an
undereducated boob.
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
01 Sep 2005 10:46:28 PM |
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On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com> wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from Hastert.
And one of the few from a politician regarding this disaster. It is
foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a city below sea level,
on a river that wants to move, in the path of hurricanes. We gambled,
we lost, we should move the city and start over.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
01 Sep 2005 11:58:54 PM |
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Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com> wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it's worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after
clean up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
"It doesn't make sense to me," said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. "And it's a question that certainly
we should ask."
======================================
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from Hastert.
And one of the few from a politician regarding this disaster. It is
foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a city below sea level,
on a river that wants to move, in the path of hurricanes. We gambled,
we lost, we should move the city and start over.
I have to agree.
If you have a hole in the ground, the rain is going to fill it up.
Sooner or later it will happen again.
This is without taking into account the damage done to the land by keeping
the town on the river and the fact that some day the river will win and take
another path to the sea.
If it doesn't the sea will come to the city.
.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 08:27:03 AM |
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On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:46:28 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com> wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from Hastert.
And one of the few from a politician regarding this disaster. It is
foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a city below sea level,
on a river that wants to move, in the path of hurricanes. We gambled,
we lost, we should move the city and start over.
That may be, but what the hell was he focusing on that for? Why the
hell wasn't he focusing on what we can do to help the city now and why
wasn't federal help showing up when it was supposed to?
.
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
01 Sep 2005 11:34:37 PM |
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On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:46:28 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com> wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from Hastert.
And one of the few from a politician regarding this disaster. It is
foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a city below sea level,
on a river that wants to move, in the path of hurricanes. We gambled,
we lost, we should move the city and start over.
What about the Netherlands?
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1881 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
01 Sep 2005 11:40:43 PM |
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"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:3ilfh1t7tijrk3fjm0ailandq3abtc3c0t@4ax.com:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:46:28 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com> wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after
clean up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from Hastert.
And one of the few from a politician regarding this disaster. It is
foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a city below sea level,
on a river that wants to move, in the path of hurricanes. We gambled,
we lost, we should move the city and start over.
What about the Netherlands?
Lots of differences. Not the least of which is that the reclaimed
portions of the Netherlands are on basically solid ground, while NO is
build on Mississippi delta mud.
But I have to agree, this is at least a question that should be asked
before more tax dollars are spend rebuilding NO. But then again, I
realize that there is lots of big bucks in it for the people who pull the
politicians strings, so we're likely to see our tax dollars spend on such
folly.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
01 Sep 2005 11:59:30 PM |
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On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 04:40:43 GMT, Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:3ilfh1t7tijrk3fjm0ailandq3abtc3c0t@4ax.com:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:46:28 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com> wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after
clean up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from Hastert.
And one of the few from a politician regarding this disaster. It is
foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a city below sea level,
on a river that wants to move, in the path of hurricanes. We gambled,
we lost, we should move the city and start over.
What about the Netherlands?
Lots of differences. Not the least of which is that the reclaimed
portions of the Netherlands are on basically solid ground, while NO is
build on Mississippi delta mud.
But I have to agree, this is at least a question that should be asked
before more tax dollars are spend rebuilding NO. But then again, I
realize that there is lots of big bucks in it for the people who pull the
politicians strings, so we're likely to see our tax dollars spend on such
folly.
Part of the reason New Orleans is vulnerable is because all the
marshes got dredged out to accomendate petroleum shipment from the
offshore platforms. so suppose we do abandon New Orleans, so that
Baton Rouge becomes the next refinery stattion. What's stopping Baton
Rouge from becoming another drowned city when the petroleum companies
dredge another pathway up the river?
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000&sc=I100322
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1881 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
07 Sep 2005 08:27:55 PM |
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On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:59:30 -0700, "Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's
Cocaine Snorting *****" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 04:40:43 GMT, Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:3ilfh1t7tijrk3fjm0ailandq3abtc3c0t@4ax.com:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:46:28 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com> wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after
clean up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from Hastert.
And one of the few from a politician regarding this disaster. It is
foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a city below sea level,
on a river that wants to move, in the path of hurricanes. We gambled,
we lost, we should move the city and start over.
What about the Netherlands?
Lots of differences. Not the least of which is that the reclaimed
portions of the Netherlands are on basically solid ground, while NO is
build on Mississippi delta mud.
But I have to agree, this is at least a question that should be asked
before more tax dollars are spend rebuilding NO. But then again, I
realize that there is lots of big bucks in it for the people who pull the
politicians strings, so we're likely to see our tax dollars spend on such
folly.
Part of the reason New Orleans is vulnerable is because all the
marshes got dredged out to accomendate petroleum shipment from the
offshore platforms. so suppose we do abandon New Orleans, so that
Baton Rouge becomes the next refinery stattion. What's stopping Baton
Rouge from becoming another drowned city when the petroleum companies
dredge another pathway up the river?
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000&sc=I100322
October 01, 2001
Drowning New Orleans
A major hurricane could swamp New Orleans under 20 feet of water,
killing thousands. Human activities along the Mississippi River have
dramatically increased the risk, and now only massive reengineering of
southeastern Louisiana can save the city
By Mark Fischetti
The boxes are stacked eight feet high and line the walls of the large,
windowless room. Inside them are new body bags, 10,000 in all. If a
big, slow-moving hurricane crossed the Gulf of Mexico on the right
track, it would drive a sea surge that would drown New Orleans under
20 feet of water. "As the water recedes," says Walter Maestri, a local
emergency management director, "we expect to find a lot of dead
bodies."
New Orleans is a disaster waiting to happen. The city lies below sea
level, in a bowl bordered by levees that fend off Lake Pontchartrain
to the north and the Mississippi River to the south and west. And
because of a damning confluence of factors, the city is sinking
further, putting it at increasing flood risk after even minor storms.
The low-lying Mississippi Delta, which buffers the city from the gulf,
is also rapidly disappearing. A year from now another 25 to 30 square
miles of delta marsh--an area the size of Manhattan--will have
vanished. An acre disappears every 24 minutes. Each loss gives a storm
surge a clearer path to wash over the delta and pour into the bowl,
trapping one million people inside and another million in surrounding
communities. Extensive evacuation would be impossible because the
surging water would cut off the few escape routes. Scientists at
Louisiana State University (L.S.U.), who have modeled hundreds of
possible storm tracks on advanced computers, predict that more than
100,000 people could die. The body bags wouldn't go very far.
A direct hit is inevitable. Large hurricanes come close every year. In
1965 Hurricane Betsy put parts of the city under eight feet of water.
In 1992 monstrous Hurricane Andrew missed the city by only 100 miles.
In 1998 Hurricane Georges veered east at the last moment but still
caused billions of dollars of damage. At fault are natural processes
that have been artificially accelerated by human tinkering--levying
rivers, draining wetlands, dredging channels and cutting canals
through marshes. Ironically, scientists and engineers say the only
hope is more manipulation, although they don't necessarily agree on
which proposed projects to pursue. Without intervention, experts at
L.S.U. warn, the protective delta will be gone by 2090. The sunken
city would sit directly on the sea--at best a troubled Venice, at
worst a modern-day Atlantis.
As if the risk to human lives weren't enough, the potential drowning
of New Orleans has serious economic and environmental consequences as
well. Louisiana's coast produces one third of the country's seafood,
one fifth of its oil and one quarter of its natural gas. It harbors 40
percent of the nation's coastal wetlands and provides wintering
grounds for 70 percent of its migratory waterfowl. Facilities on the
Mississippi River from New Orleans to Baton Rouge constitute the
nation's largest port. And the delta fuels a unique element of
America's psyche; it is the wellspring of jazz and blues, the source
of everything Cajun and Creole, and the home of Mardi Gras. Thus far,
however, Washington has turned down appeals for substantial aid.
Fixing the delta would serve as a valuable test case for the country
and the world. Coastal marshes are disappearing along the eastern
seaboard, the other Gulf Coast states, San Francisco Bay and the
Columbia River estuary for many of the same reasons besetting
Louisiana. Parts of Houston are sinking faster than New Orleans. Major
deltas around the globe--from the Orinoco in Venezuela, to the Nile in
Egypt, to the Mekong in Vietnam--are in the same delicate state today
that the Mississippi Delta was in 100 to 200 years ago. Lessons from
New Orleans could help establish guidelines for safer development in
these areas, and the state could export restoration technology
worldwide. In Europe, the Rhine, Rhône and Po deltas are losing land.
And if sea level rises substantially because of global warming in the
next 100 years or so, numerous low-lying coastal cities such as New
York would need to take protective measures similar to those proposed
for Louisiana.
ADVERTISEMENT
Seeing Is Believing
Shea Penland is among those best suited to explain the delta's blues.
Now a geologist at the University of New Orleans, he spent 16 years at
L.S.U.; does contract work for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which
builds the levees; sits on federal and state working groups
implementing coastal restoration projects; and consults for the oil
and gas industry. His greatest credential, however, is that he knows
the local folk in every little bayou town, clump of swamp and spit of
marsh up and down the disintegrating coast--the people who experience
its degradation every day.
Penland, dressed in jeans and a polo shirt on a mid-May morning, is
eager to get me into his worn red Ford F150 pickup truck so we can
explore what's eating the 50 miles of wet landscape south of New
Orleans. The Mississippi River built the delta plain that forms
southeastern Louisiana over centuries by depositing vast quantities of
sediment every year during spring floods. Although the drying sands
and silts would compress under their own weight and sink some, the
next flood would rebuild them. Since 1879, however, the Corps of
Engineers, at Congress's behest, has progressively lined the river
with levees to prevent floods from damaging towns and industry. The
river is now shackled from northern Louisiana to the gulf, cutting off
the sediment supply. As a result, the plain just subsides below the
encroaching ocean. As the wetlands vanish, so does New Orleans's
protection from the sea. A hurricane's storm surge can reach heights
of more than 20 feet, but every four miles of marsh can absorb enough
water to knock it down by one foot.
The flat marsh right outside New Orleans is still a vibrant sponge, an
ever changing mix of shallow freshwater, green marsh grasses and
cypress swamp hung with Spanish moss. But as Penland and I reach the
halfway point en route to the gulf, the sponge becomes seriously torn
and waterlogged. Isolated roads on raised stone beds pass rusted
trailer homes and former brothels along now flooded bayous; stands of
naked, dead trees; and browned grasses and reaches of empty water.
Down in Port Fourchon, where the tattered marsh finally gives way to
open gulf, the subsidence and erosion are aggressive. The lone road
exists only to service a collection of desolate corrugated buildings
where oil and natural-gas pipelines converge from hundreds of offshore
wellheads. Countless platforms form a gloomy steel forest rising from
the sea. To bring in the goods, the fossil fuel companies have dredged
hundreds of miles of navigation channels and pipeline canals
throughout the coastal and interior marshes. Each cut removes land,
and boat traffic and tides steadily erode the banks. The average U.S.
beach erodes about two feet a year, Penland says, but Port Fourchon
loses 40 to 50 feet a year--the fastest rate in the country. The
network of canals also gives saltwater easy access to interior
marshes, raising their salinity and killing the grasses and bottomwood
forests from the roots up. No vegetation is left to prevent wind and
water from wearing the marshes away. In a study funded by the oil and
gas industry, Penland documented that the industry has caused one
third of the delta's land loss.
Alligator Science
The Duet brothers know firsthand how various factors accelerate land
loss beyond natural subsidence. Toby and Danny, two of Penland's local
pals along our route, live on a 50-foot beige barge complex anchored
in the middle of 15 square miles of broken marsh, some 20 miles
northwest of Port Fourchon. Their family leased the land from oil
companies, for fishing and hunting, 16 years ago when it was merely
wet. Now it lies under five to eight feet of water. They filter rain
for drinking water, process their own sewage, catch the food they eat
and make money hosting overnight fishing parties for sportsmen. A
dozen wellheads dot the marsh where Toby picks us up by boat. Heading
out to the barge through one canal, he says, "I used to be able to
spit to the mud on either side. Now they run big oil containers
through here."
Inside the barge's wide-open room, Danny offers other measures: "Two
years ago we drove a wooden two-by-four into the mud on the edge of a
canal, to stake our alligator trap. I went past it the other day; the
edge has receded 18 feet from the stake. Doesn't much matter, though.
The gators are gone. Water's too salty."
With the marsh disappearing, the delta's only remaining defense is
some crumbling barrier islands that a century ago were part of the
region's shoreline. The next morning Penland and I travel an hour down
the coast to the Louisiana Universities Marine Consortium, a
scientific outpost in Cocodrie, an encampment of scientists and
fishermen on the coast's edge. From there we head out in one of the
consortium's gray research boats.
The boat pounds across what appears to be choppy sea for 50 minutes
before we reach Isles Dernieres ("last islands" in French). But the
open surf is never more than seven feet deep. The vast reach of
shallow water was once thick with swaying grasses, parted occasionally
by narrow, serpentine waterways full of shrimp, oysters, redfish and
trout. Penland beaches us in the bayside mud. We walk across a mere 80
yards of barren sand before we toe the ocean. A similarly diminutive
outcrop is visible in the distance to either side. They are what
remains of a once very long, staunch island lush with black mangroves.
"It broke up ocean waves, cut down storm surges and held back
saltwater so the marsh behind it could thrive," Penland says in
mourning. Now the ocean rushes right by.
Louisiana's barrier islands are eroding faster than any around the
country. Millions of tons of sediment used to exit the Mississippi
River's mouth every year and be dragged by longshore currents to the
islands, building up what tides had worn away. But in part because
levees and dredging prevent the river's last miles from meandering
naturally, the mouth has telescoped out to the continental shelf. The
sediment just drops over the edge of the underwater cliff into the
deep ocean.
Back in New Orleans the next day it becomes apparent that other human
activities have made matters worse. Cliff Mugnier, an L.S.U. geodesist
who also works part-time for the Corps of Engineers, explains why from
the third floor of the rectangular, cement Corps headquarters, which
squats atop the Mississippi River levee the Corps has built and
rebuilt for 122 years.
Mugnier says that the earth beneath the delta consists of layers of
muck--a wet peat several hundred feet deep--formed by centuries of
flooding. As the Corps leveed the river, the city and industry drained
large marshes, which in decades past were considered wasteland.
Stopping the floods and draining surface water lowered the water
table, allowing the top mucks to dry, consolidate and subside,
hastening the city's drop below sea level--a process already under way
as the underlying mucks consolidated naturally.
That's not all. As the bowl became deeper, it would flood during
routine rainstorms. So the Corps, in cooperation with the city's
Sewerage and Water Board, began digging a maze of canals to collect
rainwater. The only place to send it was Lake Pontchartrain. But
because the lake's mean elevation is one foot, the partners had to
build pumping stations at the canal heads to push the collected runoff
uphill into the lake.
The pumps serve another critical function. Because the canals are
basically ditches, groundwater seeps into them from the wet soils. But
if they are full, they can't take on water during a storm. So the city
runs the pumps regularly to expel seepage from the canals, which draws
even more water from the ground, leading to further drying and
subsidence. "We are aggravating our own problem," Mugnier says.
Indeed, the Corps is building more canals and enlarging pumping
stations, because the lower the city sinks, the more it floods. In the
meantime, streets, driveways and backyards cave in, and houses blow up
when natural-gas lines rupture. Mugnier is also worried about the
parishes (counties) bordering the city, which are digging drainage
canals as they become more populated. In St. Charles Parish to the
west, he says, "the surface could subside by as much as 14 feet."
The Scare
Humankind can't stop the delta's subsidence, and it can't knock down
the levees to allow natural river flooding and meandering, because the
region is developed. The only realistic solutions, most scientists and
engineers agree, are to rebuild the vast marshes so they can absorb
high waters and reconnect the barrier islands to cut down surges and
protect the renewed marshes from the sea.
Since the late 1980s Louisiana's senators have made various pleas to
Congress to fund massive remedial work. But they were not backed by a
unified voice. L.S.U. had its surge models, and the Corps had others.
Despite agreement on general solutions, competition abounded as to
whose specific projects would be most effective. The Corps sometimes
painted academics' cries about disaster as veiled pitches for research
money. Academia occasionally retorted that the Corps's solution to
everything was to bulldoze more dirt and pour more concrete, without
scientific rationale. Meanwhile oystermen and shrimpers complained
that the proposals from both the scientists and the engineers would
ruin their fishing grounds.
Len Bahr, head of the governor's Coastal Activities Office in Baton
Rouge, tried to bring everyone together. Passionate about southern
Louisiana, Bahr has survived three governors, each with different
sympathies. "This is the realm in which science has to operate," Bahr
says. "There are five federal agencies and six state agencies with
jurisdiction over what happens in the wetlands." Throughout the 1990s,
Bahr says with frustration, "we only received $40 million a year" from
Congress, a drop compared with the bucket of need. Even with the small
projects made possible by these dollars, Louisiana scientists
predicted that by 2050 coastal Louisiana would lose another 1,000
square miles of marsh and swamp, an area the size of Rhode Island.
Then Hurricane Georges arrived in September 1998. Its fiercely
circulating winds built a wall of water 17 feet high topped with
driven waves, which threatened to surge into Lake Pontchartrain and
wash into New Orleans. This was the very beast that L.S.U.'s early
models had warned about, and it was headed right for the city.
Luckily, just before Georges made landfall, it slowed and turned a
scant two degrees to the east. The surge collapsed under suddenly
chaotic winds.
A Grand Plan
The scientists, engineers and politicians who had been squabbling
realized how close the entire delta had come to disaster, and Bahr
says that it scared them into reaching a consensus. Late in 1998 the
governor's office, the state's Department of Natural Resources, the
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, the Environmental Protection Agency, the
Fish and Wildlife Service and all 20 of the state's coastal parishes
published Coast 2050--a blueprint for restoring coastal Louisiana.
No group is bound by the plan, however, and if all the projects were
pursued, the price tag would be $14 billion. "So," I ask in the
ninth-floor conference room adjacent to the governor's office in Baton
Rouge, "give me the short list" of Coast 2050 projects that would make
the most difference. Before me are Joe Suhayda, director of L.S.U.'s
Louisiana Water Resources Research Institute, who has modeled numerous
storm tracks and knows the key scientists, Corps engineers, and city
emergency planners; Vibhas Aravamuthan, who programs L.S.U.'s computer
models; Len Bahr; and Bahr's second-in-command, Paul Kemp. All were
involved in designing Coast 2050.
First and foremost, they decide, build a river diversion at several
critical spots along the Mississippi, to restore disappearing
marshland. At each location the Corps would cut a channel through the
river levee on its south side and build control gates that would allow
freshwater and suspended sediment to wash down through select marshes
toward the gulf. The water could disrupt oyster beds, but if the sites
were carefully selected, deals could be made with landowners.
Every 24 minutes Louisiana loses one acre of land.
The second step: rebuild the southern barrier islands using more than
500 million cubic yards of sand from nearby Ship Shoal. Next, the
Corps would cut a channel in the narrow neck of the river delta at
about halfway down. Ships could enter the river there, shortening
their trip to interior ports and saving them money. The Corps could
then stop dredging the southern end of the river. The mouth would fill
with sediment and begin overflowing to the west, sending sand and silt
back into those longshore currents that could sustain the barrier
islands.
The channel plan might be integrated into a larger state proposal to
build an entire new Millennium Port. It would provide deeper draft for
modern container ships than the Port of New Orleans and its main
channel, the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet (MRGO, pronounced Mr. Go),
which the Corps dredged in the early 1960s. The outlet has eroded
terribly--from 500 feet across, originally, to 2,000 feet in
places--and let in a relentless stream of saltwater that has killed
much of the marsh that once protected eastern New Orleans against gulf
storms. If the channel or the Millennium Port were built, the Corps
could close MrGo.
A remaining chink in the delta's armor is the pair of narrow straits
on Lake Pontchartrain's eastern edge where it connects to the gulf.
The obvious solution would be to gate them, just as the Netherlands
does to regulate the North Sea's flow inland. But it would be a tough
sell. "We've proposed that in the past, and it's been shot down," Bahr
says. The project's costs would be extremely high.
This list of the most promising Coast 2050 projects is only one small
group's vision, of course, yet other established experts concur with
its fundamentals. Ivor van Heerden, a geologist who is deputy director
of L.S.U.'s Hurricane Center, concurs that "if we're going to succeed,
we've got to mimic nature. Building diversions and reestablishing
barrier-island sediment flows are the closest we can come." Shea
Penland pretty much agrees, although he warns that the Mississippi
River may not carry enough sediment to feed multiple diversions. U.S.
Geological Survey studies by Robert Meade show that the supply of
suspended sediment is less than half of what it was prior to 1953,
diverted mostly by dams along the river's course through middle
America.
With no action, one million people could be trapped.
As far as the Corps is concerned, all of the Coast 2050 projects
should be implemented. The first to become a reality is the Davis Pond
diversion, due to begin operating by the end of this year. Project
manager Al Naomi, a 30-year Corps civil engineer, and Bruce Baird, a
biological oceanographer, brought me to the construction site on the
Mississippi's southern levee, 20 miles west of New Orleans. The
structure looks like a modest dam, in line with the levee. Steel gates
in its midsection, each large enough to drive a bus through, will open
and close to control water flowing through it. The water will exit
into a wide swath of cleared swamp that extends south for a mile,
forming a shallow riverbed that will gradually disperse into
boundary-less marsh. The structure will divert up to 10,650 cubic feet
per second (cfs) of water from the Mississippi, whose total flow past
New Orleans ranges from less than 200,000 cfs during droughts to more
than one million cfs during floods. The outflow should help preserve
33,000 acres of wetlands, oysterbeds and fishing grounds.
The Corps is bullish on Davis Pond because of its success at
Caernarvon, a smaller, experimental diversion it opened in 1991 near
MrGo. By 1995 Caernarvon had restored 406 acres by increasing the
marsh's sediment and reducing its salinity with freshwater.
Who Should Pay?
The corps of engineers is hiring more scientists for projects such as
Davis Pond, a signal that the fragmented parties are beginning to work
better together. Bahr would like to integrate science and engineering
further by requiring independent scientific review of proposed Corps
projects before the state signed on--which Louisiana would need to do
because Congress would require the state to share the cost of such
work.
If Congress and President George W. Bush hear a unified call for
action, authorizing it would seem prudent. Restoring coastal Louisiana
would protect the country's seafood and shipping industries and its
oil and natural-gas supply. It would also save America's largest
wetlands, a bold environmental stroke. And without action, the million
people outside New Orleans would have to relocate. The other million
inside the bowl would live at the bottom of a sinking crater,
surrounded by ever higher walls, trapped in a terminally ill city
dependent on nonstop pumping to keep it alive.
Funding the needed science and engineering would also unearth better
ways to save the country's vanishing wetlands and the world's
collapsing deltas. It would improve humankind's understanding of
nature's long-term processes--and the stakes of interfering, even with
good intentions. And it could help governments learn how to minimize
damage from rising seas, as well as from violent weather, at a time
when the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration predicts
more storms of greater intensity as a result of climate change.
Walter Maestri doesn't welcome that prospect. When Allison, the first
tropical storm of the 2001 hurricane season, dumped five inches of
rain a day on New Orleans for a week in June, it nearly maxed out the
pumping system. Maestri spent his nights in a flood-proof command
bunker built underground to evade storm winds; from there he
dispatched police, EMTs, firefighters and National Guardsmen. It was
only rain, yet it stressed the response teams. "Any significant water
that comes into this city is a dangerous threat," he says. "Even
though I have to plan for it, I don't even want to think about the
loss of life a huge hurricane would cause."
© 1996-2005 Scientific American, Inc.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
07 Sep 2005 09:47:37 PM |
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stoney wrote:
October 01, 2001
Drowning New Orleans
A major hurricane could swamp New Orleans under 20 feet of water,
killing thousands. Human activities along the Mississippi River have
dramatically increased the risk, and now only massive reengineering of
southeastern Louisiana can save the city
This study points out that what New Orleons suffered was *not* The Big One.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
10 Sep 2005 08:31:39 PM |
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On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 02:47:37 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
stoney wrote:
October 01, 2001
Drowning New Orleans
A major hurricane could swamp New Orleans under 20 feet of water,
killing thousands. Human activities along the Mississippi River have
dramatically increased the risk, and now only massive reengineering of
southeastern Louisiana can save the city
This study points out that what New Orleons suffered was *not* The Big One.
Bad enough.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
07 Sep 2005 10:36:44 PM |
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On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 02:47:37 GMT, in alt.atheism , "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> in
<dDNTe.1495$eQ7.587@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> wrote:
stoney wrote:
October 01, 2001
Drowning New Orleans
A major hurricane could swamp New Orleans under 20 feet of water,
killing thousands. Human activities along the Mississippi River have
dramatically increased the risk, and now only massive reengineering of
southeastern Louisiana can save the city
This study points out that what New Orleons suffered was *not* The Big One.
Think of that, this was not the hurricane that FEMA had feared. And
look how it was handled. If that storm had gone a few miles west it
would have been so much worse.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 08:22:03 AM |
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On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:59:30 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<3nmfh1lh4puhf37om9aprknd9hah52ef62@4ax.com> wrote:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 04:40:43 GMT, Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:3ilfh1t7tijrk3fjm0ailandq3abtc3c0t@4ax.com:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:46:28 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com> wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after
clean up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from Hastert.
And one of the few from a politician regarding this disaster. It is
foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a city below sea level,
on a river that wants to move, in the path of hurricanes. We gambled,
we lost, we should move the city and start over.
What about the Netherlands?
Lots of differences. Not the least of which is that the reclaimed
portions of the Netherlands are on basically solid ground, while NO is
build on Mississippi delta mud.
But I have to agree, this is at least a question that should be asked
before more tax dollars are spend rebuilding NO. But then again, I
realize that there is lots of big bucks in it for the people who pull the
politicians strings, so we're likely to see our tax dollars spend on such
folly.
Part of the reason New Orleans is vulnerable is because all the
marshes got dredged out to accomendate petroleum shipment from the
offshore platforms. so suppose we do abandon New Orleans, so that
Baton Rouge becomes the next refinery stattion. What's stopping Baton
Rouge from becoming another drowned city when the petroleum companies
dredge another pathway up the river?
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000&sc=I100322
I just read that article and it does not support your claim. The
problem is not dredging the marshes, the primary problem is that the
delta is unconsolidated mud. Baton Rouge is on solider ground and
would be safer, but it is also farther inland. What they need to do is
build a port and just a port. Having a major city that far out if
foolish.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 09:21:26 AM |
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On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:22:03 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:59:30 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<3nmfh1lh4puhf37om9aprknd9hah52ef62@4ax.com> wrote:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 04:40:43 GMT, Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:3ilfh1t7tijrk3fjm0ailandq3abtc3c0t@4ax.com:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:46:28 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com> wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after
clean up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from Hastert.
And one of the few from a politician regarding this disaster. It is
foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a city below sea level,
on a river that wants to move, in the path of hurricanes. We gambled,
we lost, we should move the city and start over.
What about the Netherlands?
Lots of differences. Not the least of which is that the reclaimed
portions of the Netherlands are on basically solid ground, while NO is
build on Mississippi delta mud.
But I have to agree, this is at least a question that should be asked
before more tax dollars are spend rebuilding NO. But then again, I
realize that there is lots of big bucks in it for the people who pull the
politicians strings, so we're likely to see our tax dollars spend on such
folly.
Part of the reason New Orleans is vulnerable is because all the
marshes got dredged out to accomendate petroleum shipment from the
offshore platforms. so suppose we do abandon New Orleans, so that
Baton Rouge becomes the next refinery stattion. What's stopping Baton
Rouge from becoming another drowned city when the petroleum companies
dredge another pathway up the river?
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000&sc=I100322
I just read that article and it does not support your claim.
"To bring in the goods, the fossil fuel companies have dredged
hundreds of miles of navigation channels and pipeline canals
throughout the coastal and interior marshes. Each cut removes land,
and boat traffic and tides steadily erode the banks.
....
No vegetation is left to prevent wind and water from wearing the
marshes away. In a study funded by the oil and gas industry, Penland
documented that the industry has caused one third of the delta's land
loss. "
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000&sc=I100322
The
problem is not dredging the marshes, the primary problem is that the
delta is unconsolidated mud. Baton Rouge is on solider ground and
would be safer, but it is also farther inland. What they need to do is
build a port and just a port. Having a major city that far out if
foolish.
A port that handles a significant amount of petroleum traffic for the
US will be a major city.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1881 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 01:47:02 AM |
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Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 04:40:43 GMT, Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:3ilfh1t7tijrk3fjm0ailandq3abtc3c0t@4ax.com:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:46:28 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com> wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb
us again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it's worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a
low-lying city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target
even after clean up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
"It doesn't make sense to me," said Hastert during an interview
with the Daily Herald editorial board. "And it's a question that
certainly we should ask."
======================================
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from
Hastert. And one of the few from a politician regarding this
disaster. It is foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a
city below sea level, on a river that wants to move, in the path
of hurricanes. We gambled, we lost, we should move the city and
start over.
What about the Netherlands?
Lots of differences. Not the least of which is that the reclaimed
portions of the Netherlands are on basically solid ground, while NO
is build on Mississippi delta mud.
But I have to agree, this is at least a question that should be asked
before more tax dollars are spend rebuilding NO. But then again, I
realize that there is lots of big bucks in it for the people who
pull the politicians strings, so we're likely to see our tax dollars
spend on such folly.
Part of the reason New Orleans is vulnerable is because all the
marshes got dredged out to accomendate petroleum shipment from the
offshore platforms. so suppose we do abandon New Orleans, so that
Baton Rouge becomes the next refinery stattion. What's stopping Baton
Rouge from becoming another drowned city when the petroleum companies
dredge another pathway up the river?
The Mississippi wants to follow the Atchafalaya river which is north of
Baton Rouge. The Army corp of engineers has been fighting it for years and
there is a boat in the water 24x7 looking for holes that will let the river
do just that.
It ain't natural to change Mark Twain's logic.
" In the space of one hundred and seventy six years the Lower Mississippi
has shortened itself two hundred and forty-two miles. That is an average of
a trifle over a mile and a third per year. Therefore, any calm person, who
is not blind or idiotic, can see that in the Old Oölitic Silurian Period,
just a million years ago next November, the Lower Mississippi was upwards of
one million three hundred thousand miles long, and stuck out over the Gulf
of Mexico like a fishing-pole. And by the same token any person can see that
seven hundred and forty-two years from now the Lower Mississippi will be
only a mile and three-quarters long, and Cairo [Illinois] and New Orleans
will have joined their streets together and be plodding comfortably along
under a single mayor and a mutual board of aldermen. There is something
fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out
of such a trifling investment of fact. "
"Life on The Mississippi"
The first half of this book is a fasinating view of what was needed to be a
riverboat pilot.
(Pirate for the hard of hearing.)
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| User: "nobody" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 03:25:17 AM |
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"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:46:28 GMT, Matt Silberstein
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from Hastert.
And one of the few from a politician regarding this disaster. It is
foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a city below sea level,
on a river that wants to move, in the path of hurricanes. We gambled,
we lost, we should move the city and start over.
What about the Netherlands?
It doesn't belong to USA, AFAIK.
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP, The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 03:47:02 PM |
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On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:34:37 -0700, "Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's
Cocaine Snorting *****" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:46:28 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com> wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from Hastert.
And one of the few from a politician regarding this disaster. It is
foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a city below sea level,
on a river that wants to move, in the path of hurricanes. We gambled,
we lost, we should move the city and start over.
What about the Netherlands?
The US shouldn't spend 20+ billion to rebuild the Netherlands either.
.
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP,The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 12:59:06 AM |
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Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:46:28 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Yang, AthD
(h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> in
<ppdfh1972jdsg9kpvuqbj80b8q9o0m05t2@4ax.com> wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
That may be the first sensible thing that I have heard from Hastert.
And one of the few from a politician regarding this disaster. It is
foolish to spend the 20+ billion to re-build a city below sea level,
on a river that wants to move, in the path of hurricanes. We gambled,
we lost, we should move the city and start over.
What about the Netherlands?
No Category 5 hurricanes. In fact, no hurricanes.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
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| User: "VO here@there" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP,The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 01:48:45 PM |
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Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
-----
This will be the third time of rebuilding New Orleans. 1927 was the
last time.
Definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting
different results.
How stupid is it to create a city 20 feet below sea level, in Hurricane
Alley, at the end (delta)of the largest river in North America?
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| User: "Tink" |
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| Title: Re: GOP Congress: Rebuilting New Orleans "Doesn't Make Sense" (GOP,The Party of Treason) |
02 Sep 2005 07:07:41 AM |
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Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:
Ah, the new defeatist GOP; why fight terrorism? they'll just bomb us
again!
=======================================
Lawmakers have to ask themselves if it’s worth sinking possibly
billions of federal dollars into rebuilding New Orleans, a low-lying
city which would remain a vulnerable hurricane target even after clean
up, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Wednesday.
“It doesn’t make sense to me,” said Hastert during an interview with
the Daily Herald editorial board. “And it’s a question that certainly
we should ask.”
======================================
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1881 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
For once. I agree with him. When I took courses in meteorology back in
'92, they were taking about this storm. They said New Orleans was the
single most vulnerable city in the country and that this storm would be
catastrophic. They were right. It makes no sense to rebuild in that
area. The storms will keep on coming and the next time one lands there,
it will be worse. Also, consider that this is not the worse case
scenario that meteorologists have envisioned. The storm passed to the
east if where it would have needed to land for the worst to have
happened. So why rebuild a place that sits in such a bad spot?
--
Skydivers don't knock on death's door; they ring the bell and run
away... It really pisses him off.
The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS# 8808
EAC Chairman, Division of Skydiving and Sushi consumption.
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