Religions > Atheism > Great, now we'll have to ban "Mother Goose" in schools.....
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Phillip Brown" |
| Date: |
02 Mar 2004 10:05:19 PM |
| Object: |
Great, now we'll have to ban "Mother Goose" in schools..... |
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/03/1078191360365.html
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phillip brown
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Great, now we'll have to ban "Mother Goose" in schools..... |
03 Mar 2004 07:55:21 AM |
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In article <pan.2004.03.03.04.05.19.885950@netscape.net>, Phillip Brown says...
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/03/1078191360365.html
--
phillip brown
But what's this "Jack lost his crown" nonsense? If they're referring to "Jack &
Jill", he broke his crown (i.e., busted his noggin), not lose it. Whatever.
And for the record, the original Grimm fairy tales are FAR to gruesome and scary
to read to children.
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Great, now we'll have to ban "Mother Goose" in schools..... |
04 Mar 2004 07:56:16 AM |
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Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Phillip Brown says...
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/03/1078191360365.html
But what's this "Jack lost his crown" nonsense? If they're referring to
"Jack & Jill", he broke his crown (i.e., busted his noggin), not lose it.
Whatever.
And for the record, the original Grimm fairy tales are FAR to gruesome
and scary to read to children.
I remember one song or poem from childhood which goes something
like "Ring around the rosies, pocket full of posies," and never really
knew what it meant when I was a kid.
Turns out that it's a description of the symptoms of some disease
or plague, according to some people, but there seems to be others
who disagree.
From:
http://www.ualberta.ca/~imunro/versions.html
"Personally, I find that the wide variations in 19th and early 20th
century versions of the rhyme is by itself a strong argument against
the plague interpretation, especially when you see how far these
rhymes are from the version(s) we all know now. In Shropshire
Folk-Lore (1883), G.F. Jackson records the following variation:
Ring-a-ring o' roses,
A pocket full of posies,
One for Jack, and one for Jim,
And one for little Moses--
A-tischa! a-tischa! a-tischa!
And this ending variation:
A curchey in, and a curchey out,
And a curchey all together!"
---------
What's a curchey?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Great, now we'll have to ban |
04 Mar 2004 08:21:34 AM |
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In article <hace40po38od7ihblqcsmoj3t3ib4lnrk8@4ax.com>, Elroy Willis says...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Phillip Brown says...
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/03/1078191360365.html
But what's this "Jack lost his crown" nonsense? If they're referring to
"Jack & Jill", he broke his crown (i.e., busted his noggin), not lose it.
Whatever.
And for the record, the original Grimm fairy tales are FAR to gruesome
and scary to read to children.
I remember one song or poem from childhood which goes something
like "Ring around the rosies, pocket full of posies," and never really
knew what it meant when I was a kid.
Turns out that it's a description of the symptoms of some disease
or plague, according to some people, but there seems to be others
who disagree.
From:
http://www.ualberta.ca/~imunro/versions.html
Yes, I've read that little was ditty was about the Black Plague. Ring around the
rosies was supposed to describe a symptom of the disease, the pocket full of
posies was what people held in front of their noses when they walked through
town because the whole place stunk of dead bodies and the ashes, ashes, we all
fall down part basically means everyone's dead. But I've also read that's a
crock of hooey.
"Personally, I find that the wide variations in 19th and early 20th
century versions of the rhyme is by itself a strong argument against
the plague interpretation, especially when you see how far these
rhymes are from the version(s) we all know now. In Shropshire
Folk-Lore (1883), G.F. Jackson records the following variation:
Ring-a-ring o' roses,
A pocket full of posies,
One for Jack, and one for Jim,
And one for little Moses--
A-tischa! a-tischa! a-tischa!
A-tischa? What the heck is that?
And this ending variation:
A curchey in, and a curchey out,
And a curchey all together!"
---------
What's a curchey?
Dance step?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Phÿltêr" |
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| Title: Re: Great, now we'll have to ban |
04 Mar 2004 09:12:10 AM |
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Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> astounded us with:
news:OXG1c.5280$_4.299@www.newsranger.com:
In article <hace40po38od7ihblqcsmoj3t3ib4lnrk8@4ax.com>, Elroy Willis
says...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Phillip Brown says...
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/03/1078191360365.html
But what's this "Jack lost his crown" nonsense? If they're referring
to "Jack & Jill", he broke his crown (i.e., busted his noggin), not
lose it.
Whatever.
And for the record, the original Grimm fairy tales are FAR to gruesome
and scary to read to children.
I remember one song or poem from childhood which goes something
like "Ring around the rosies, pocket full of posies," and never really
knew what it meant when I was a kid.
Turns out that it's a description of the symptoms of some disease
or plague, according to some people, but there seems to be others
who disagree.
From:
http://www.ualberta.ca/~imunro/versions.html
Yes, I've read that little was ditty was about the Black Plague. Ring
around the rosies was supposed to describe a symptom of the disease, the
pocket full of posies was what people held in front of their noses when
they walked through town because the whole place stunk of dead bodies
and the ashes, ashes, we all fall down part basically means everyone's
dead. But I've also read that's a crock of hooey.
"Personally, I find that the wide variations in 19th and early 20th
century versions of the rhyme is by itself a strong argument against
the plague interpretation, especially when you see how far these
rhymes are from the version(s) we all know now. In Shropshire
Folk-Lore (1883), G.F. Jackson records the following variation:
Ring-a-ring o' roses,
A pocket full of posies,
One for Jack, and one for Jim,
And one for little Moses--
A-tischa! a-tischa! a-tischa!
A-tischa? What the heck is that?
Sneezing, "atishoo, atishoo", a symptom of the black death.
--
Phÿltêr
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://www.rudraigh.com/afjc/regulars.html
Change "freeway" to "hotmail" to respond
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Great, now we'll have to ban |
04 Mar 2004 10:00:52 AM |
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Phÿltêr <Phÿltêr@freeway.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> astounded us with:
A-tischa! a-tischa! a-tischa!
A-tischa? What the heck is that?
Sneezing, "atishoo, atishoo", a symptom of the black death.
Ah, probably tied to the "God bless you" when people sneezed?
You've got gaping ring-like sores, and are sneezing and look like
you're on death's bed.
It's "aaacheww" not "atishoo," Sheesh...
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Phÿltêr" |
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| Title: Re: Great, now we'll have to ban |
05 Mar 2004 05:09:53 AM |
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Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> astounded us with:
news:ifke401rbu7el3cohupvgm3b9bik7b2rd9@4ax.com:
Phÿltêr <Phÿltêr@freeway.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> astounded us with:
A-tischa! a-tischa! a-tischa!
A-tischa? What the heck is that?
Sneezing, "atishoo, atishoo", a symptom of the black death.
Ah, probably tied to the "God bless you" when people sneezed?
You've got gaping ring-like sores, and are sneezing and look like
you're on death's bed.
It's "aaacheww" not "atishoo," Sheesh...
When I learned the rhyme, back in the sixties, it was atishoo, so nyer :P
--
Phÿltêr
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://www.rudraigh.com/afjc/regulars.html
Change "freeway" to "hotmail" to respond
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Great, now we'll have to ban |
05 Mar 2004 06:51:43 AM |
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Phÿltêr <Phÿltêr@freeway.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> astounded us with:
Phÿltêr <Phÿltêr@freeway.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> astounded us with:
A-tischa! a-tischa! a-tischa!
A-tischa? What the heck is that?
Sneezing, "atishoo, atishoo", a symptom of the black death.
It's "aaacheww" not "atishoo," Sheesh...
When I learned the rhyme, back in the sixties, it was atishoo, so nyer :P
I wonder if it's the same as "kerchoo" and is related to the
handkerchief?
From:
http://dsc.discovery.com/anthology/spotlight/bioterror/history/history.html
"At the height of the French and Indian War, the besieged soldiers at
Fort Pitt began dropping from smallpox. Sir Jeffrey Amherst, commander
of British forces in North America, recommended that it "be contrived
to send the smallpox among those disaffected tribes of Indians" who
were threatening the fort. A conference was called, and on June 24,
1763, Captain Simon Ecuyer presented two blankets and a handkerchief
to the Delawares under the guise of friendship and peace. The "gifts,"
however, were from the fort's infirmary and were infected with the
smallpox virus. "I hope it will have the desired effect," Ecuyer would
later write. The following spring Native American tribes in the Ohio
River Valley were dying in droves from the smallpox virus."
Does smallpox cause one to sneeze?
If you hand someone a gift of a square of cloth that you or someone
else kerchooed on, does that make you a biological terrorist?
It's worse than flinging a ***** at them for sure, isn't it?
Hand this piece of square cloth that someone kerchooed on
to Chief Running Bear and we can wipe out his tribe and invent
the hand-kerchoo-chief...
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Great, now we'll have to ban |
04 Mar 2004 02:28:48 PM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
Phÿltêr <Phÿltêr@freeway.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> astounded us with:
A-tischa! a-tischa! a-tischa!
A-tischa? What the heck is that?
Sneezing, "atishoo, atishoo", a symptom of the black death.
Ah, probably tied to the "God bless you" when people sneezed?
You've got gaping ring-like sores, and are sneezing and look like
you're on death's bed.
It's "aaacheww" not "atishoo," Sheesh...
Different etiology. Uncontrollable sneezing is one of the first symptoms
of the pneumonic form of the plague, which usually appeared in the winter.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Great, now we'll have to ban |
04 Mar 2004 09:11:17 AM |
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Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis says...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in alt.atheism
And for the record, the original Grimm fairy tales are FAR to gruesome
and scary to read to children.
I remember one song or poem from childhood which goes something
like "Ring around the rosies, pocket full of posies," and never really
knew what it meant when I was a kid.
Turns out that it's a description of the symptoms of some disease
or plague, according to some people, but there seems to be others
who disagree.
From:
http://www.ualberta.ca/~imunro/versions.html
Yes, I've read that little was ditty was about the Black Plague. Ring
around the rosies was supposed to describe a symptom of the disease,
the pocket full of posies was what people held in front of their noses when
they walked through town because the whole place stunk of dead bodies
and the ashes, ashes, we all fall down part basically means everyone's dead.
But I've also read that's a crock of hooey.
Along that line, I've read of "fairy circles" in lawns, and in fact
have a neighbor who had one in his yard for around five years or
so. Every time I drove by it, I'd wonder what it was. Turns out it
was caused by an underground fungus, which was easily killed by
some fungicide, and now the ring is gone from his yard. The ancient
people who saw such a thing attributed it to fairies. I can't be
sure, but I think the "ring around the rosie" might be inter-twined
with the plague myth, but I can't be sure. Who can keep track of
all of them? Certainly not me! I like to read about them, but it's
hard to nail them down sometimes.
"Personally, I find that the wide variations in 19th and early 20th
century versions of the rhyme is by itself a strong argument against
the plague interpretation, especially when you see how far these
rhymes are from the version(s) we all know now. In Shropshire
Folk-Lore (1883), G.F. Jackson records the following variation:
Ring-a-ring o' roses,
A pocket full of posies,
One for Jack, and one for Jim,
And one for little Moses--
A-tischa! a-tischa! a-tischa!
A-tischa? What the heck is that?
Another word for shiksa? :)
A tisket, a tasket, and something in a basket?
And this ending variation:
A curchey in, and a curchey out,
And a curchey all together!"
---------
What's a curchey?
Dance step?
Curtsey, Courteous?
I seem to remember a "curtsey" as bowing the knees a bit,
and for women, lifting up the skirt a bit, but my memory could be
wrong about that. I can picture people doing a "courtsey" before
they speak to a judge or king, as a part of "bowing down to them"
or showing respect to them. I wonder if it's tied to the word
"church?" Hmm...
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Great, now we'll have to ban |
04 Mar 2004 12:52:31 PM |
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In article <qkge4052455qb3auqs2v8sipmoed2tg1ft@4ax.com>, Elroy Willis says...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in alt.atheism
snip>
Yes, I've read that little was ditty was about the Black Plague. Ring
around the rosies was supposed to describe a symptom of the disease,
the pocket full of posies was what people held in front of their noses when
they walked through town because the whole place stunk of dead bodies
and the ashes, ashes, we all fall down part basically means everyone's dead.
But I've also read that's a crock of hooey.
Along that line, I've read of "fairy circles" in lawns, and in fact
have a neighbor who had one in his yard for around five years or
so. Every time I drove by it, I'd wonder what it was. Turns out it
was caused by an underground fungus, which was easily killed by
some fungicide, and now the ring is gone from his yard. The ancient
people who saw such a thing attributed it to fairies. I can't be
sure, but I think the "ring around the rosie" might be inter-twined
with the plague myth, but I can't be sure. Who can keep track of
all of them? Certainly not me! I like to read about them, but it's
hard to nail them down sometimes.
LOL - Hey, at least you try. I remember when I was honeymooning in Ireland, my
husband almost stepped on a "fairy ring". I shouted, "Don't step on that! It's
a fairy ring and that's bad luck!" You would have thought the ground was red
hot the way he jumped backwards. Was pretty funny considering he doesn't
believe in such stuff ;)
"Personally, I find that the wide variations in 19th and early 20th
century versions of the rhyme is by itself a strong argument against
the plague interpretation, especially when you see how far these
rhymes are from the version(s) we all know now. In Shropshire
Folk-Lore (1883), G.F. Jackson records the following variation:
Ring-a-ring o' roses,
A pocket full of posies,
One for Jack, and one for Jim,
And one for little Moses--
A-tischa! a-tischa! a-tischa!
A-tischa? What the heck is that?
Another word for shiksa? :)
LOL, great minds think alike ;)
A tisket, a tasket, and something in a basket?
And this ending variation:
A curchey in, and a curchey out,
And a curchey all together!"
---------
What's a curchey?
Dance step?
Curtsey, Courteous?
I seem to remember a "curtsey" as bowing the knees a bit,
and for women, lifting up the skirt a bit, but my memory could be
wrong about that.
Nope, you got it right ;)
I can picture people doing a "courtsey" before
they speak to a judge or king, as a part of "bowing down to them"
or showing respect to them. I wonder if it's tied to the word
"church?" Hmm...
Ack! ;D
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Great, now we'll have to ban |
04 Mar 2004 02:27:17 PM |
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Robibnikoff wrote:
In article <qkge4052455qb3auqs2v8sipmoed2tg1ft@4ax.com>, Elroy Willis says...
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote in alt.atheism
snip>
Yes, I've read that little was ditty was about the Black Plague. Ring
around the rosies was supposed to describe a symptom of the disease,
the pocket full of posies was what people held in front of their noses when
they walked through town because the whole place stunk of dead bodies
and the ashes, ashes, we all fall down part basically means everyone's dead.
But I've also read that's a crock of hooey.
Along that line, I've read of "fairy circles" in lawns, and in fact
have a neighbor who had one in his yard for around five years or
so. Every time I drove by it, I'd wonder what it was. Turns out it
was caused by an underground fungus, which was easily killed by
some fungicide, and now the ring is gone from his yard. The ancient
people who saw such a thing attributed it to fairies. I can't be
sure, but I think the "ring around the rosie" might be inter-twined
with the plague myth, but I can't be sure. Who can keep track of
all of them? Certainly not me! I like to read about them, but it's
hard to nail them down sometimes.
LOL - Hey, at least you try. I remember when I was honeymooning in Ireland, my
husband almost stepped on a "fairy ring". I shouted, "Don't step on that! It's
a fairy ring and that's bad luck!" You would have thought the ground was red
hot the way he jumped backwards. Was pretty funny considering he doesn't
believe in such stuff ;)
"Personally, I find that the wide variations in 19th and early 20th
century versions of the rhyme is by itself a strong argument against
the plague interpretation, especially when you see how far these
rhymes are from the version(s) we all know now. In Shropshire
Folk-Lore (1883), G.F. Jackson records the following variation:
Ring-a-ring o' roses,
A pocket full of posies,
One for Jack, and one for Jim,
And one for little Moses--
A-tischa! a-tischa! a-tischa!
A-tischa? What the heck is that?
Another word for shiksa? :)
LOL, great minds think alike ;)
I think it's a sneeze, which is also what the "ashes, ashes" is supposed
to be.
A tisket, a tasket, and something in a basket?
And this ending variation:
A curchey in, and a curchey out,
And a curchey all together!"
---------
What's a curchey?
Dance step?
Curtsey, Courteous?
I seem to remember a "curtsey" as bowing the knees a bit,
and for women, lifting up the skirt a bit, but my memory could be
wrong about that.
Nope, you got it right ;)
I can picture people doing a "courtsey" before
they speak to a judge or king, as a part of "bowing down to them"
or showing respect to them. I wonder if it's tied to the word
"church?" Hmm...
Ack! ;D
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
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