| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Biff" |
| Date: |
11 Apr 2004 11:07:42 AM |
| Object: |
HAPPY EASTER !!! |
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
"According to St. Bede, an English historian of the early 8th century,
Easter owes its origin to the old Teutonic mythology. It was derived from
the name Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, to whom the month of
April was dedicated. The festival of Eostre was celebrated at the vernal
equinox, when the day and night gets an equal share of the day."
Sorry Christians!
Biff
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
12 Apr 2004 11:08:02 AM |
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<cross-posting crap snipped>
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:07:42 -0700, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com>
ejaculated:
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
"According to St. Bede, an English historian of the early 8th century,
Easter owes its origin to the old Teutonic mythology. It was derived from
the name Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, to whom the month of
April was dedicated. The festival of Eostre was celebrated at the vernal
equinox, when the day and night gets an equal share of the day."
Sorry Christians!
It's obvious that Biff is unfamiliar with Christian revisionism and
dogged denial of facts. Jesus is the reason for the season and has
always been the reason for the season. After all, the Church said so,
for Christ's sake.
</sarcasm>
--
"You claimed all this time that you would die for me.
Why, then, are you so surprised when you hear your own eulogy?"
- Tool, "Eulogy"
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| User: "Biff" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
12 Apr 2004 11:14:12 AM |
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"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9kfl70d5q12mb88q31l0d8v6j9k9evj2ru@4ax.com...
<cross-posting crap snipped>
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:07:42 -0700, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com>
ejaculated:
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
"According to St. Bede, an English historian of the early 8th century,
Easter owes its origin to the old Teutonic mythology. It was derived from
the name Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, to whom the month of
April was dedicated. The festival of Eostre was celebrated at the vernal
equinox, when the day and night gets an equal share of the day."
Sorry Christians!
It's obvious that Biff is unfamiliar with Christian revisionism and
dogged denial of facts. Jesus is the reason for the season and has
always been the reason for the season. After all, the Church said so,
for Christ's sake.
</sarcasm>
Ha, ha. :-)
--
"You claimed all this time that you would die for me.
Why, then, are you so surprised when you hear your own eulogy?"
- Tool, "Eulogy"
.
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| User: "Claytie the Umpire Slayer" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
11 Apr 2004 06:44:25 PM |
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"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:40796d44$0$27656$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
Easter has been cancelled...
....they found the body!
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| User: "Gomez Addams" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
11 Apr 2004 07:33:20 PM |
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"Claytie the Umpire Slayer" <cjfat@BLOCKINGOFTHESPAMphonyemail.com> wrote in
message news:4079d761$0$4574$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:40796d44$0$27656$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
Easter has been cancelled...
...they found the body!
In your dreams!!!!
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| User: "Claytie the Umpire Slayer" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
12 Apr 2004 02:10:49 AM |
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"Gomez Addams" <not@good.address> wrote in message
news:ktlec.4298$l75.1363@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Claytie the Umpire Slayer" <cjfat@BLOCKINGOFTHESPAMphonyemail.com> wrote
in
message news:4079d761$0$4574$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:40796d44$0$27656$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
Easter has been cancelled...
...they found the body!
In your dreams!!!!
What an odd response!
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| User: "Gomez Addams" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
12 Apr 2004 11:06:50 AM |
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"Claytie the Umpire Slayer" <cjfat@BLOCKINGOFTHESPAMphonyemail.com> wrote in
message news:407a40f7$0$674$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Gomez Addams" <not@good.address> wrote in message
news:ktlec.4298$l75.1363@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Claytie the Umpire Slayer" <cjfat@BLOCKINGOFTHESPAMphonyemail.com>
wrote
in
message news:4079d761$0$4574$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:40796d44$0$27656$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
Easter has been cancelled...
...they found the body!
In your dreams!!!!
What an odd response!
What an odd response!?
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
11 Apr 2004 09:00:21 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:33:20 +0000 in episode
<ktlec.4298$l75.1363@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> we saw our hero
"Gomez Addams" <not@good.address>:
"Claytie the Umpire Slayer" <cjfat@BLOCKINGOFTHESPAMphonyemail.com> wrote
in message news:4079d761$0$4574$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:40796d44$0$27656$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
Easter has been cancelled...
...they found the body!
In your dreams!!!!
Like the rest of that story...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
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| User: "Jesus Penis" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
11 Apr 2004 09:07:12 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:33:20 +0000, Gomez Addams wrote:
"Claytie the Umpire Slayer" <cjfat@BLOCKINGOFTHESPAMphonyemail.com> wrote in
message news:4079d761$0$4574$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:40796d44$0$27656$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
Easter has been cancelled...
...they found the body!
In your dreams!!!!
Wow.
Nice comeback.
For a first grader.
Geo
atheist #15
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| User: "Biff" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
11 Apr 2004 10:25:39 PM |
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"Claytie the Umpire Slayer" <cjfat@BLOCKINGOFTHESPAMphonyemail.com> wrote in
message news:4079d761$0$4574$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:40796d44$0$27656$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
Easter has been cancelled...
...they found the body!
No, Easter has to do with Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring. Jesus'
fable was never needed. :-)
Biff
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| User: "IKnowMoreThanYou" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
12 Apr 2004 11:29:47 AM |
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"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message news:<40796d44$0$27656$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
Easter (English being the only language that calls it that - all other
languages use a form of the word "passover") is a Christian holiday.
The ressurection of Christ was not celebrated by pre-Christian Jews
and pagans.
"According to St. Bede, an English historian of the early 8th century,
Easter owes its origin to the old Teutonic mythology.
What about the early 4th century Council of Nicaea which unanimously
ruled that the Easter festival should be celebrated throughout the
Christian world on the first Sunday after the full moon following the
vernal equinox? Were they strictly annexing Teutonic mythology then?
It was derived from
the name Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, to whom the month of
April was dedicated. The festival of Eostre was celebrated at the vernal
equinox, when the day and night gets an equal share of the day."
Everyone agrees that Bede was incorrect. No evidence of a goddess by
any similar name has ever been known or discovered in Germanic or
Teutonic mythology. The holiday name did not derive from a goddess;
it's the opposite. Bede mistakenly created a "fictional" goddess
derived from the name.
As usual, your ilk also can't seem to distinguish that WHAT is
celebrated need not derive from the same source as HOW it is
celebrated. (comprende?)
Sorry Christians!
Sorry for what?
Biff
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
12 Apr 2004 12:04:57 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:29:47 -0700 in episode
<5f0e3375.0404120829.4ebaa197@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
iknow_morethanyou@hotmail.com (IKnowMoreThanYou):
As usual, your ilk also can't seem to distinguish that WHAT is celebrated
need not derive from the same source as HOW it is celebrated. (comprende?)
<snort>
Face it. Your religion co-opted pagan celebrations because people like
pageantry and festivals. It was a marketing ploy...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
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| User: "Biff" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
12 Apr 2004 12:10:55 PM |
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WHO agrees that Bede was "incorrect?" :-) Christians? :-)))
http://www.theholidayspot.com/easter/history/easter_history.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm
Biff
"IKnowMoreThanYou" <iknow_morethanyou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5f0e3375.0404120829.4ebaa197@posting.google.com...
"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:<40796d44$0$27656$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence
of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
Easter (English being the only language that calls it that - all other
languages use a form of the word "passover") is a Christian holiday.
The ressurection of Christ was not celebrated by pre-Christian Jews
and pagans.
"According to St. Bede, an English historian of the early 8th century,
Easter owes its origin to the old Teutonic mythology.
What about the early 4th century Council of Nicaea which unanimously
ruled that the Easter festival should be celebrated throughout the
Christian world on the first Sunday after the full moon following the
vernal equinox? Were they strictly annexing Teutonic mythology then?
It was derived from
the name Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, to whom the month of
April was dedicated. The festival of Eostre was celebrated at the vernal
equinox, when the day and night gets an equal share of the day."
Everyone agrees that Bede was incorrect. No evidence of a goddess by
any similar name has ever been known or discovered in Germanic or
Teutonic mythology. The holiday name did not derive from a goddess;
it's the opposite. Bede mistakenly created a "fictional" goddess
derived from the name.
As usual, your ilk also can't seem to distinguish that WHAT is
celebrated need not derive from the same source as HOW it is
celebrated. (comprende?)
Sorry Christians!
Sorry for what?
Biff
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| User: "Roger Pearse" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
13 Apr 2004 10:51:12 AM |
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Troll troll...
"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message news:<407acd92$0$27670$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
WHO agrees that Bede was "incorrect?" :-) Christians? :-)))
http://www.theholidayspot.com/easter/history/easter_history.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm
Biff
"IKnowMoreThanYou" <iknow_morethanyou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5f0e3375.0404120829.4ebaa197@posting.google.com...
"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:<40796d44$0$27656$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence
of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
Easter (English being the only language that calls it that - all other
languages use a form of the word "passover") is a Christian holiday.
The ressurection of Christ was not celebrated by pre-Christian Jews
and pagans.
"According to St. Bede, an English historian of the early 8th century,
Easter owes its origin to the old Teutonic mythology.
What about the early 4th century Council of Nicaea which unanimously
ruled that the Easter festival should be celebrated throughout the
Christian world on the first Sunday after the full moon following the
vernal equinox? Were they strictly annexing Teutonic mythology then?
It was derived from
the name Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, to whom the month of
April was dedicated. The festival of Eostre was celebrated at the vernal
equinox, when the day and night gets an equal share of the day."
Everyone agrees that Bede was incorrect. No evidence of a goddess by
any similar name has ever been known or discovered in Germanic or
Teutonic mythology. The holiday name did not derive from a goddess;
it's the opposite. Bede mistakenly created a "fictional" goddess
derived from the name.
As usual, your ilk also can't seem to distinguish that WHAT is
celebrated need not derive from the same source as HOW it is
celebrated. (comprende?)
Sorry Christians!
Sorry for what?
Biff
.
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| User: "Biff" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
13 Apr 2004 11:00:06 AM |
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"Roger Pearse" <roger_pearse@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3a88eeea.0404130751.53432c6d@posting.google.com...
Troll troll...
Roger, A "troll" to many Christians including you, is anyone who speaks the
truth thereby destroying your security blanket fantasies.
You won't tell me just WHO "agrees" that Bede was "incorrect." :-) Why?
Simply because you can't. :-))
Biff
"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:<407acd92$0$27670$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
WHO agrees that Bede was "incorrect?" :-) Christians? :-)))
http://www.theholidayspot.com/easter/history/easter_history.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm
Biff
"IKnowMoreThanYou" <iknow_morethanyou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5f0e3375.0404120829.4ebaa197@posting.google.com...
"Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:<40796d44$0$27656$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a
convergence
of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
Easter (English being the only language that calls it that - all other
languages use a form of the word "passover") is a Christian holiday.
The ressurection of Christ was not celebrated by pre-Christian Jews
and pagans.
"According to St. Bede, an English historian of the early 8th
century,
Easter owes its origin to the old Teutonic mythology.
What about the early 4th century Council of Nicaea which unanimously
ruled that the Easter festival should be celebrated throughout the
Christian world on the first Sunday after the full moon following the
vernal equinox? Were they strictly annexing Teutonic mythology then?
It was derived from
the name Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, to whom the
month of
April was dedicated. The festival of Eostre was celebrated at the
vernal
equinox, when the day and night gets an equal share of the day."
Everyone agrees that Bede was incorrect. No evidence of a goddess by
any similar name has ever been known or discovered in Germanic or
Teutonic mythology. The holiday name did not derive from a goddess;
it's the opposite. Bede mistakenly created a "fictional" goddess
derived from the name.
As usual, your ilk also can't seem to distinguish that WHAT is
celebrated need not derive from the same source as HOW it is
celebrated. (comprende?)
Sorry Christians!
Sorry for what?
Biff
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
13 Apr 2004 09:00:24 PM |
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:00:06 -0700, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
"Roger Pearse" <roger_pearse@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3a88eeea.0404130751.53432c6d@posting.google.com...
Troll troll...
Roger, A "troll" to many Christians including you, is anyone who speaks the
truth thereby destroying your security blanket fantasies.
The hypocrite posts his insults and inanities to an atheist newsgroup
and then lies about responses being trolling.
You won't tell me just WHO "agrees" that Bede was "incorrect." :-) Why?
Simply because you can't. :-))
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
13 Apr 2004 02:48:58 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:07:42 -0700, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
john w responded
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
"He is Risen!"
Praise the Lord!
jw
"According to St. Bede, an English historian of the early 8th century,
Easter owes its origin to the old Teutonic mythology. It was derived from
the name Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, to whom the month of
April was dedicated. The festival of Eostre was celebrated at the vernal
equinox, when the day and night gets an equal share of the day."
Sorry Christians!
Biff
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
13 Apr 2004 03:23:39 PM |
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In article <f0ho70duegiutucrp9iuj60o0gha5oum0g@4ax.com>, john w says...
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:07:42 -0700, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
john w responded
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
"He is Risen!"
Isn't Jesus a little young to have to use viagra?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Prove It.." |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
13 Apr 2004 09:22:57 PM |
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Robibnikoff screamed across the void of the internet [on 4/13/2004 3:23 PM]:
In article <f0ho70duegiutucrp9iuj60o0gha5oum0g@4ax.com>, john w says...
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:07:42 -0700, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
john w responded
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
"He is Risen!"
Isn't Jesus a little young to have to use viagra?
You're never too young to use viagra - and to have people celebrate you
for it. ;)
"Use Viagra, for those times that your little Jesus is feeling dead, and
you need to resurrect the fun!"
--
Man is quite insane. He wouldn't know how to create a maggot and he
creates Gods by the dozen. [anonymous]
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
13 Apr 2004 09:00:24 PM |
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:48:58 -0700, john w
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:07:42 -0700, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
john w responded
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
"He is Risen!"
Are you personalising dough made with yeast?
Praise the Lord!
What kind of moron posts this crap to an atheist newsgroup?
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
14 Apr 2004 05:19:08 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:00:24 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
john w responded
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:48:58 -0700, john w
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:07:42 -0700, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
john w responded
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
"He is Risen!"
Are you personalising dough made with yeast?
Praise the Lord!
What kind of moron posts this crap to an atheist newsgroup?
I'm in the Baptist group, moron. What kind of moron responds to a
cross-posted post that is unpleasant?
jw
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
15 Apr 2004 06:01:26 PM |
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On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:19:08 -0700 in episode
<95er705ov33u0ca2avhkq27ern3btkvi5s@4ax.com> we saw our hero john w
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>:
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:00:24 GMT, Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>
wrote:
john w responded
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:48:58 -0700, john w <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:07:42 -0700, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
john w responded
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence
of the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
"He is Risen!"
Are you personalising dough made with yeast?
Praise the Lord!
What kind of moron posts this crap to an atheist newsgroup?
I'm in the Baptist group, moron. What kind of moron responds to a
cross-posted post that is unpleasant?
Apparently your kind...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
14 Apr 2004 05:26:20 PM |
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On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:19:08 -0700, john w
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:00:24 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
john w responded
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:48:58 -0700, john w
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:07:42 -0700, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
john w responded
Many cultural historians find the celebration of Easter, a convergence of
the three traditions - Pagan, Hebrew and Christian.
"He is Risen!"
Are you personalising dough made with yeast?
Praise the Lord!
What kind of moron posts this crap to an atheist newsgroup?
I'm in the Baptist group, moron. What kind of moron responds to a
cross-posted post that is unpleasant?
And you still cross-posted your "he is risen" crap to an atheist
newsgroup. Which was both rude and stupid.
jw
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| User: "walksalone" |
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| Title: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!! |
15 Apr 2004 02:42:59 AM |
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On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:19:08 -0700, john w displayed his lack of decency,
minor as it was, with the following display of lack of written context.
Follow up set so poor baby won't have to cross post any more, this time.
Path: news.netfront.net!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!image.surnet.ru!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: john w <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: HAPPY EASTER !!!
Reply-To: God in Heaven
Message-ID: <95er705ov33u0ca2avhkq27ern3btkvi5s@4ax.com>
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:19:08 -0700
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On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:00:24 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
john w responded
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:48:58 -0700, john w
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> wrote:
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:07:42 -0700, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
john w responded
snip
Praise the Lord!
What kind of moron posts this crap to an atheist newsgroup?
I'm in the Baptist group, moron. What kind of moron responds to a
Yes, to their shame you do claim that. As to what kid of moron, I don't
know, what kind do you perceive yourself as?
cross-posted post that is unpleasant?
Apparently, morons like you.
jw
which one today, the menopausal one?
walksalone who knows jw can't stand not getting its name seen, but that is
all it accomplishes.
.
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