Fred Stone wrote:

DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in
news:eKGxe.4662$Fy4.3538@trnddc04:

Fred Stone wrote:

DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in
news:DdExe.6093$mr4.3573@trnddc05:

Fred Stone wrote:

quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1d30b8e13b19255e989795@news.readfreenews.net:

In article
<1120338086.f88e61f2e9a1b46842a8666fcbb6dc1a@teranews>,
fstone69@earthling.com says...

quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1d30a651e8752dd6989794@news.readfreenews.net:

In article
<1120320532.421c6fe12acec73850bf982767d266b5@teranews>,
fstone69@earthling.com says...

quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1d305c792968cac2989792 @news.readfreenews.net:

In article <hQxxe.32564$Oi4.291709@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
not@home.com says...

Or, as Libs like to call it, Black Monday 8^)

No, we call it independence from king george day. Without
liberals we would still be a british colony, you tory
sympathizer. A liberal wrote the declaration of independence
and most of our founders were more liberal than conservative
in their views. Even you are a liberal with respect to
religion, but you're simply not smart enough to rationally
apply liberalism to other parts of your life.

Don't kid yourself, quibbler, if any of the Founders were
still around you'd be calling them neo-cons.

Nope. Neocons are NeoMon(archists). King george was an
imperialist back then and our present king george is a neo-con,
neo-mon-archist

Baloney.

Neoconservatism certain is baloney.

Your strawman of neocons certainly is baloney.

As is your strawman of liberals.

I don't do strawmen. I just watch Teddy Kennedy and Howard Dean.

And that's your basis for all liberals? Hah! Now THAT is a
strawman!

So who should I look to for better liberal role models? Michael
Moore? George Soros? Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? Che Guevara?

How about John Adams, Ben Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson?

now. The founding fathers cared about real liberty and
freedom, and not just the expropriated buzzwords that
theocratic neocons use while they steal our freedoms daily.

What a load of crap. Neocons are old-style liberals

Some were ex-Trotskyites who believed in perpetual, violent
revolution, only from a right-wing fascist viewpoint, rather than

from a liberation point of view.

Nice straw you got there. How much for a bale?

Why? Need some for your strawmen of liberals?

By the way, don't give me this "cease-fire" *****, Fred. You've
posted a lot more topics and responses than I have.

Don't give me that, Daniel. I was willing to stop but you kept on.

*****, Fred. I posted maybe 4 topics. You posted at least 20.

I waited for you to stop posting *any*, and you didn't. You kept
right on with the liberal *****.

And you with your conservative *****. Want me to cite what you
posted after I stopped?

You weren't serious about this "cease-fire" and you know it. You
just wanted a chance to post your hate filled, lying rhetoric about
Americans without rebuttal from me.

Don't project so hard, Daniel.

When I woke up today, you posted topic after topic after topic that
had nothing to do with atheism. I considered the cease-fire over
then.

You never stopped posting politial topics at all, Daniel. Don't lie.

I don't lie. Ever.

Too bad. Since you posted so many lies, the cease-fire is over.

You haven't proved that anything that I've posted is a lie.

Oh, really? Here's one:

"Don't kid yourself, quibbler, if any of the Founders were still
around you'd be calling them neo-cons."

That's my opinion, Daniel. You have yet to cause me to think
otherwise.

Sorry, but Thomas Jefferson, Ben Fraklin, and John Adams (for
starters) were liberals. You may think of them as something
different, but if you knew liberals at all, you'd know that I'm right.

However, you've got this vision of what you think is a liberal which
is so far gone that I don't think you'll ever know a real liberal.

Let me take each of your celebrity names one by one and explain to you
what they *REALLY* stand for, instead of goofy Conservative strawmen
you create for them:

-----
Edward "Ted" Kennedy:
When Edward first became a member of the Senate, his career was
already targeted by Republicans with an agenda of hatred toward him
because he had a "D" next to his name. They said that he had no
experience and was using his family name to get into office.

However, while in office, he helps head the "Senate Health, Education,
Labor and Pensions Committee" or (HELP) which help shape policies
including education for children, giving Americans access to quality
health care, and protecting workers and their pensions.

In 1971, Kennedy called for the withdrawal of British Troops from
Ireland and began called for Peace Talks.

Before that, he took a wrong turn off a bridge and plunged his car
(with his passenger) into a pond. Kennedy went to get help, but his
passenger drowned and Kennedy was charged for leaving the scene of an
accident from which he sentenced to two months in jail.

This was all the Republicans needed. It quickly blossomed into a
scandal and lies and mud was slung about including that he was drunk
at the time (a charge never proven).

When he decided to run for president 11 years after that incident, the
Republicans were quick to dredge it up again.

Later, Kennedy helped draft No Child Left Behind. When Bush failed to
fund NCLB, Kennedy reversed his position.

Kennedy is pro-choice, heads up the Senate Committee on Immigration,
and is strongly in favor of alternative energy.

He is also on the terrorist watch list...
-----
Howard Dean

Dean currently heads up the DNC and was governor of Vermont for five
terms. Dean is a populist and denounces both Democrat and Republican.
He is not a liberal. He is a centrist. A "social liberal" and a
"fiscal conservative."

While governor of Vermont, Dean took the $60 million deficit he
inherited, balanced the budget 11 times, raised the bond rating and
lowered income taxes twice.

While governor of Vermont, Dean also reduced the amount of people
without health insurance from 12.7% to 9.6%. Child abuse and teen
pregnancy were cut in half.

Dean concluded that prohibiting same-sex marriage was unconstitutional
and put the nation's first "Civil Unions" law into effect.

Dean was also endorsed by the National Rifle Association several
times. -----
Michael Moore

Born in Flint, Michigan, Moore was raised in a middle-class household.
Moore, a Roman Catholic and an Eagle Scout, filmed a documentary about
the safety hazards in his community.

He founded "The Flint Voice" (***** "The Michigan Voice"), an
alternative weekly magazine, then became an editor at "Mother Jones"
magazine, from which he was fired for failing to publish an article
critical of the Sandinistas' human rights record. Moore sued for
wrongful dismissal and was awarded an out-of-court settlement which he
used to fund "Roger and Me," a documentary about GM's president firing
Americans and hiring Mexicans, who were paid much less.

Later, he filmed a variety of movies (including Canadian Bacon and The
Big One) before tackling the incident at Columbine High School. He
searched for a reason for the Columbine massacre, but could not find
one in guns, but instead, found that it was self-righteous fear that
causes violence in America. He was lambasted by critics who never saw
the film, calling it "anti-gun" when it was most assuredly not.

Finally, after 9/11, sick of being called a traitor, a "fat pig,"
unAmerican, or other libelous names, Moore created Fahrenheit 9/11
detailing the hypocrisy of the Bush White House.

Moore is currently filming "Sicko" which is a study into America's
health care system. Health Care Providers do not want their employees
talking to Michael Moore.
-----
George Soros

Born in Hungary, Soros moved to America and became a philathropist, a
currency speculator, chairman of Soros Fund Management and the Open
Society Institute.

He is also on the Board of Directors for the Council of Foreign
Relations.

Taking advantage of various crises in England, Soros amassed an insane
stockpile of money. He did nothing illegal.

In 1986, Soros helped bail out Harken Energy, run by George W. Bush.

In 1988, he was asked to join a French bank's takeover. He declined,
instead opting to buy stock. IN 2002, the French government convicted
Soros of insider trading and fined him $2 million.

He currently runs an offshore currency speculation company and has
been investigated on multiple occasions for "manipulating" the
currency markets.

However, the money he makes in "currency speculation" he uses for
philanthropic purposes. He helped fund black students' college in
apartheid-run South Africa, funded various colleges including the
Central European University.

Later, he became aware of the hypocrisy of the Bush White House, so
funded an attempts to stop Bush from regaining power, including
providing $3 million to the Center for American Progress, $5 million
to MoveOn.org, and $10 million to America Coming Together.
-----
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

I have to admit, when I first saw this man's name, I thought, "HUH?
Who's that?" So I did a bit of research.

Turns out this man is the newly elected president of Iran. He is a
religious conservative and an Islamist

He is not a liberal.
------
Che Guevara

Che Guevara was a revolutionary socialist from Cuba and was executed
in Bolivia.

He was not a liberal.
-----

Now, ***** you and the horse you rode in on. You don't know anything
about liberals.