| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mike Painter" |
| Date: |
01 Sep 2005 12:19:33 AM |
| Object: |
Hard New Test for President |
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/national/nationalspecial/01bush.html?ex=1283227200&en=8723f22b2afde0f9&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rssI watched a show on the Meth problem in Missouri the other night. The firechief talked about how dangerous those labs can be to everybody and saidthere wasn't much they could to to protect their officers prior to 9/11Now they have Hazmat gear from the "war on terrorism" to use in the ignoredproblem with Meth in our land.Maybe trickle down does work :)--Take a CPR class and get your community involved in an AED program.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
03 Sep 2005 02:30:52 PM |
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"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:EimSe.625$ua1.602@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?
tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc2110901201
5
And there are other reports of fire and police vehicles flooded
too. Why weren't they running for high ground? Somebody dropped the
ball at the local level.
Of course there are fire and police vehicles flooded. It's their job
to be where the trouble is.
We're the ones that run into the flaming building.
And we respect you for your courage, but somebody fucked up at the
local level and they're shrieking loud to cover their own fuckup.
You first offer stranded police and fire vehicles in an apparent
attempt to cover the ***** of the president who you say is not god but
who acts like one.
You need to be asking Mayor Nagin why he waited until Monday morning to
order the evacuation and why the city buses weren't used.
When it is pointed out that such would be expected you again claim a
local ***** up.
If that were the case, they wouldn't be in a parking lot.
Any particular reason or just trying to defend your boy.
Just pointing out the facts.
If this town goes there will be several police vehicles, all the fire
engines and trucks, my car and probably a dozen others that go with
it. It's an expected part of our job and all but one of the fire
fighters will be *volunteers*
The fucking Bush administration ignored our levy problem also and we
have been trying to get somebody's attention for years.
The CofE wanted to propose a construction project in the '70s during the
Carter administration but they shelved it when they were sued by
environmentalists. If Bush had started it in 2001 it wouldn't even be
out of the planning phase yet.
We may finally have done so but there are no republican names on the
list.
But that's to be expected. The town is poor and most live below the
poverty level. They don't do much except work at minimum wage jobs in
the field providing you with the food you eat.
That's a despicable thing to say.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
I think if we had a three-word message right now it’d be, ‘We can do
better.’
- Howard Dean
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
03 Sep 2005 06:58:44 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
We may finally have done so but there are no republican names on the
list.
But that's to be expected. The town is poor and most live below the
poverty level. They don't do much except work at minimum wage jobs in
the field providing you with the food you eat.
That's a despicable thing to say.
Which part?
That there are no republicans helping?
That we can't get help because the town is poor?
That the people can't get decent wages because even minimum wage is about
1/3rd what it should be?
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
03 Sep 2005 07:31:05 PM |
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"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:UMqSe.1541$XY7.746@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
We may finally have done so but there are no republican names on the
list.
But that's to be expected. The town is poor and most live below the
poverty level. They don't do much except work at minimum wage jobs
in the field providing you with the food you eat.
That's a despicable thing to say.
Which part?
That there are no republicans helping?
That we can't get help because the town is poor?
That the people can't get decent wages because even minimum wage is
about 1/3rd what it should be?
The first two, especially. Shame on you.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
I think if we had a three-word message right now it’d be, ‘We can do
better.’
- Howard Dean
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
03 Sep 2005 11:21:52 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:UMqSe.1541$XY7.746@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
We may finally have done so but there are no republican names on
the list.
But that's to be expected. The town is poor and most live below the
poverty level. They don't do much except work at minimum wage jobs
in the field providing you with the food you eat.
That's a despicable thing to say.
Which part?
That there are no republicans helping?
That we can't get help because the town is poor?
That the people can't get decent wages because even minimum wage is
about 1/3rd what it should be?
The first two, especially. Shame on you.
Well, then please tell me the names of the Republicans who have come forth
to help us?
Why in a town with most of the population below the poverty line didn't the
levee get fixed properly the last time it partially breached?
Why are the levy's on the other side of the river that are protecting large
corporations farm land higher and better maintained?
I'd be especially interested in your answer to the first question.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
04 Sep 2005 07:45:50 AM |
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"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:ADuSe.704$ua1.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:UMqSe.1541$XY7.746@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
We may finally have done so but there are no republican names on
the list.
But that's to be expected. The town is poor and most live below
the poverty level. They don't do much except work at minimum wage
jobs in the field providing you with the food you eat.
That's a despicable thing to say.
Which part?
That there are no republicans helping?
That we can't get help because the town is poor?
That the people can't get decent wages because even minimum wage is
about 1/3rd what it should be?
The first two, especially. Shame on you.
Well, then please tell me the names of the Republicans who have come
forth to help us?
http://instapundit.com/archives/025235.php
And of course there's President Bush, but you have this irrational fear
of giving him any credit for anything.
Why in a town with most of the population below the poverty line
didn't the levee get fixed properly the last time it partially
breached?
Ask the mayor. New Orleans isn't so poor that it couldn't afford to fix
its own infrastructure, if that was a priority. What *do* they do with
all the tax revenue from tourists?
Why are the levy's on the other side of the river that are
protecting large corporations farm land higher and better maintained?
Could it be that they pay for it themselves?
I'd be especially interested in your answer to the first question.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
I think if we had a three-word message right now it’d be, ‘We can do
better.’
- Howard Dean
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
04 Sep 2005 06:11:58 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:ADuSe.704$ua1.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:UMqSe.1541$XY7.746@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
We may finally have done so but there are no republican names on
the list.
But that's to be expected. The town is poor and most live below
the poverty level. They don't do much except work at minimum wage
jobs in the field providing you with the food you eat.
That's a despicable thing to say.
Which part?
That there are no republicans helping?
That we can't get help because the town is poor?
That the people can't get decent wages because even minimum wage is
about 1/3rd what it should be?
The first two, especially. Shame on you.
Well, then please tell me the names of the Republicans who have come
forth to help us?
http://instapundit.com/archives/025235.php
And of course there's President Bush, but you have this irrational
fear of giving him any credit for anything.
Why in a town with most of the population below the poverty line
didn't the levee get fixed properly the last time it partially
breached?
Ask the mayor. New Orleans isn't so poor that it couldn't afford to
fix its own infrastructure, if that was a priority. What *do* they do
with all the tax revenue from tourists?
Why are the levy's on the other side of the river that are
protecting large corporations farm land higher and better maintained?
Could it be that they pay for it themselves?
I'd be especially interested in your answer to the first question.
Nice try Fred. I'd suggest you go back and read what you snipped.
Just in case you can't:
I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT NEW ORLEANS. I WAS TALKING ABOUT *MY* TOWN.
I expected you would have been at least smart enough to ask where the town I
was talking about was before you made a vain attempt to answer the question.
I was wrong. You weren't even smart enough to know what I was talking about
or remember what you read.
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| User: "WCB" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
04 Sep 2005 01:04:01 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:ADuSe.704$ua1.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:UMqSe.1541$XY7.746@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
We may finally have done so but there are no republican names on
the list.
But that's to be expected. The town is poor and most live below
the poverty level. They don't do much except work at minimum wage
jobs in the field providing you with the food you eat.
That's a despicable thing to say.
Which part?
That there are no republicans helping?
That we can't get help because the town is poor?
That the people can't get decent wages because even minimum wage is
about 1/3rd what it should be?
The first two, especially. Shame on you.
Well, then please tell me the names of the Republicans who have come
forth to help us?
http://instapundit.com/archives/025235.php
And of course there's President Bush, but you have this irrational fear
of giving him any credit for anything.
Why in a town with most of the population below the poverty line
didn't the levee get fixed properly the last time it partially
breached?
Ask the mayor. New Orleans isn't so poor that it couldn't afford to fix
its own infrastructure, if that was a priority. What *do* they do with
all the tax revenue from tourists?
Again. *****. Listen. *****! YOU!
Google and check. Lousiana is 42nd in income.
But in state and local taxes is 16th.
*****! Are you thinking Fred, about these facts?
Much of this tax money DOES go to fix and maintain
such systems.
But, since that fuckhead Bush and a GOP controlled
Congress got elected, Louisiana has been stiffed.
ARE YOU LISTENING YOU WRETCHED MORON!
They have been unable to get money appropriated
to needs and in fact, keep finding their funding slashjed.
DID YOU GET THAT *****!? SLASHED!
41% slashed since 2001. $71 billion slashed just last years.
*****!
Yet there was $2.3 billion for two massive bridges in oh
so Republiocan Alaska.
Lousiana carries a heavy local tax burden for a poor state.
THEY MAKE AN EFFORT YOU MISERBALE FAR RIGHT TURD!
The GOP has been shitting on them from a heighth
since Bush slimed into office!
Fucking useless air waster!
Reagan saidm, government is no the solution, goverment
is the problem.
And anytime you have a government run by Republicans
you wil get extremely bad government.
A million people at risk in large part because the GOP controlled
government did NOT give a ***** about niggers in a Democratic state.
It was far more important to build $2.3 billion in bridges
to nowhere in Republican Alaska than deal with a potential
disaster in a city of 1 million people.
Republicans are evil.
The state of Lousiana has in fact, taken on a fairly heavy
tax burden to deal with its own problems, a point I have made to you three
times now.
*****.
You ignored the fact that Lousiana does in deed do a lot.
*****.
not like its parasite next door neighbors, states run by
Republicans that have lowest tax burdens in America and
are uniformly backwards and dead last in things like education.
Or disaster relief.
Moron.
You sit there and ignore the fact that the GOP Congress has
***** on Lousiana since day one, and that Loisuana does indeed
take on heavy tax burdens for a poor state to deal with these
problems as best as they can.
You nasty cretin.
I put teh facts before you and you ignore them, and when you
think we have all forgotten the facts, you sneer the same old
right winger lies.
You fucking piece of lying human excrement.
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/taxesbystate2005/
Louisiana 16th in taxes.
http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Products/Ranking/2003/R07T040.htm
Lousiana
In personal income Lousiana ranks 49th in this chart!
Don't you lie Louisiana didn't do anything!
*****!
Don't you dare claim Lousiana made no effort to deal
with its own problems. Don't you dare!
*****! I get so tired of right wingers going into auto-lie mode
ever time something new like this comes down the pike! I get tired of
correcting shits like you with facts, only to see it pour off of you like
slime off a slugs back.
And you just repeat the same old debunked lies! and repeat them!
and even though I debunk them, you just keep repeating them.
I have necver seen a right wing on the wrong side of the facts
accept the facts even when beat over the head repeatedly with facts.
What causes that sort of brain damage?
Lousiana has made efforts, Bush and the GOP did not, they
have been shitting on Lousiana since Bush, day one.
Why are the levy's on the other side of the river that are
protecting large corporations farm land higher and better maintained?
Could it be that they pay for it themselves?
I'd be especially interested in your answer to the first question.
--
Xenu is around and about,
mention Hubbard, Xenu pops out!
No way for the clams to stamp Xenu out,
Xenu is around and about!
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
04 Sep 2005 10:51:09 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:45:50 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125837950.67004bb6deedcda2d93d30f039d3d484@teranews> wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:ADuSe.704$ua1.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
[snip]
Why in a town with most of the population below the poverty line
didn't the levee get fixed properly the last time it partially
breached?
Ask the mayor. New Orleans isn't so poor that it couldn't afford to fix
its own infrastructure, if that was a priority. What *do* they do with
all the tax revenue from tourists?
I am willing to bet real money that the City of New Orleans was not
allowed to touch the levees. I am sure that if the Army Corp was
working on it that it was out of bounds for anyone else to go near. Do
you have a single reference to suggest that it was even a possibility
that the city could work on that on its own? And I suppose we mean
cities since the levee system deals with more than just the one city.
And the problems from this hurricane go way beyond just this city.
[snip]
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
05 Sep 2005 07:22:13 AM |
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Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:61gnh154t0hv4kmmu2b5rrfuk9ecl33ats@4ax.com:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:45:50 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125837950.67004bb6deedcda2d93d30f039d3d484@teranews> wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:ADuSe.704$ua1.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
[snip]
Why in a town with most of the population below the poverty line
didn't the levee get fixed properly the last time it partially
breached?
Ask the mayor. New Orleans isn't so poor that it couldn't afford to
fix its own infrastructure, if that was a priority. What *do* they do
with all the tax revenue from tourists?
I am willing to bet real money that the City of New Orleans was not
allowed to touch the levees.
That's odd, since they have "levee authorities" for each and every one
of them.
I am sure that if the Army Corp was
working on it that it was out of bounds for anyone else to go near. Do
you have a single reference to suggest that it was even a possibility
that the city could work on that on its own?
Do you have a reference that they could not?
And I suppose we mean
cities since the levee system deals with more than just the one city.
And the problems from this hurricane go way beyond just this city.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
I think if we had a three-word message right now it’d be, ‘We can do
better.’ - Howard Dean
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
05 Sep 2005 10:17:46 AM |
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On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:22:13 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125922933.c873338422fb62413b37a900d94a47c2@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:61gnh154t0hv4kmmu2b5rrfuk9ecl33ats@4ax.com:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:45:50 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125837950.67004bb6deedcda2d93d30f039d3d484@teranews> wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:ADuSe.704$ua1.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
[snip]
Why in a town with most of the population below the poverty line
didn't the levee get fixed properly the last time it partially
breached?
Ask the mayor. New Orleans isn't so poor that it couldn't afford to
fix its own infrastructure, if that was a priority. What *do* they do
with all the tax revenue from tourists?
I am willing to bet real money that the City of New Orleans was not
allowed to touch the levees.
That's odd, since they have "levee authorities" for each and every one
of them.
Do they do any building on the levees?
I am sure that if the Army Corp was
working on it that it was out of bounds for anyone else to go near. Do
you have a single reference to suggest that it was even a possibility
that the city could work on that on its own?
Do you have a reference that they could not?
Well, that no one, other than you, has tried to pass the buck back to
them is something. And that the Corp took responsibility in all of the
exercises and planning.
And I suppose we mean
cities since the levee system deals with more than just the one city.
And the problems from this hurricane go way beyond just this city.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
05 Sep 2005 11:53:56 AM |
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Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:saooh19tmgkgvcrilbsi0muq9t1pq029td@4ax.com:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:22:13 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125922933.c873338422fb62413b37a900d94a47c2@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:61gnh154t0hv4kmmu2b5rrfuk9ecl33ats@4ax.com:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:45:50 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125837950.67004bb6deedcda2d93d30f039d3d484@teranews> wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:ADuSe.704$ua1.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
[snip]
Why in a town with most of the population below the poverty line
didn't the levee get fixed properly the last time it partially
breached?
Ask the mayor. New Orleans isn't so poor that it couldn't afford to
fix its own infrastructure, if that was a priority. What *do* they
do with all the tax revenue from tourists?
I am willing to bet real money that the City of New Orleans was not
allowed to touch the levees.
That's odd, since they have "levee authorities" for each and every one
of them.
Do they do any building on the levees?
Yes, they do. The Orleans Levee District is responsible for management
of the levees.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/hurricane-risk-new-
orleans.htm
"Orleans Levee District, a quasi-governmental body, is resposponsible
for 129 miles of earthen levees, floodwalls, 190 floodgates, 2 flood
control structures, and 100 valves. The governor appoints six of the
board's eight members, and they serve at his pleasure. When a storm
approaches it is responsible for closing the hundreds of hurricane
protection floodgates and valves on levees surrounding the city. All
residents outside of these levees evacuate.
The District's General Fund accounts for all operating funds for the
daily operations of the Administrative Offices, Field Forces, Law
Enforcement and support operations necessary to maintain the Board's
level of services for flood protection and public safety.
The District's Special Levee Improvement Projects Fund (SLIP) accounts
for the capital funds for major maintenance and/or capital improvements
of all physical property and plant owned by the Board that is identified
as directly related to flood protection.
The District's General Improvement Fund accounts for the capital funds
for major maintenance or capital improvement of all physical property
and plant owned by the Board that is not identified as directly related
to flood protection. These projects relate to land reclamation,
commercial buildings, improvements (other than buildings), and
infrastructure."
....
Hurricane Georges (September 15 - October 01, 1998)
....When Georges appeared headed for New Orleans, the Superdome was
opened as a shelter and an estimated 14,000 people poured in. But there
were problems, including theft and vandalism, and people were cooped up
in the Superdome for days...
Hurricane Ivan (September 14 2004)
Hurricane Ivan (September 14 2004)
Although Hurricane Ivan did not cause significant damage in New Orleans,
the Class 4 hurricane did expose shortcomings in the city's evacuation
plans. More than 1 million people tried to leave the city and
surrounding suburbs on Tuesday September 14, 2004, creating a traffic
jam as bad as or worse than the evacuation that followed Georges. In the
afternoon, state police reversing inbound lanes on southeastern
Louisiana interstates to provide more escape routes. But the state
police never expected the 60 miles between New Orleans and Baton Rouge
would turn into a seven-hour-long crawl. Those too poor to leave the
city had to find their own shelter - a policy that was eventually
reversed, but only a few hours before the deadly storm struck land.
I am sure that if the Army Corp was
working on it that it was out of bounds for anyone else to go near.
Do you have a single reference to suggest that it was even a
possibility that the city could work on that on its own?
Do you have a reference that they could not?
Well, that no one, other than you, has tried to pass the buck back to
them is something. And that the Corp took responsibility in all of the
exercises and planning.
I'm not the only one.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
I think if we had a three-word message right now it’d be, ‘We can do
better.’ - Howard Dean
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
05 Sep 2005 12:47:34 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:53:56 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125939236.239f6607e61541751c9cfea689d55605@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:saooh19tmgkgvcrilbsi0muq9t1pq029td@4ax.com:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:22:13 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125922933.c873338422fb62413b37a900d94a47c2@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:61gnh154t0hv4kmmu2b5rrfuk9ecl33ats@4ax.com:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:45:50 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125837950.67004bb6deedcda2d93d30f039d3d484@teranews> wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:ADuSe.704$ua1.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
[snip]
Why in a town with most of the population below the poverty line
didn't the levee get fixed properly the last time it partially
breached?
Ask the mayor. New Orleans isn't so poor that it couldn't afford to
fix its own infrastructure, if that was a priority. What *do* they
do with all the tax revenue from tourists?
I am willing to bet real money that the City of New Orleans was not
allowed to touch the levees.
That's odd, since they have "levee authorities" for each and every one
of them.
Do they do any building on the levees?
Yes, they do. The Orleans Levee District is responsible for management
of the levees.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/hurricane-risk-new-
orleans.htm
"Orleans Levee District, a quasi-governmental body, is resposponsible
for 129 miles of earthen levees, floodwalls, 190 floodgates, 2 flood
control structures, and 100 valves. The governor appoints six of the
board's eight members, and they serve at his pleasure. When a storm
approaches it is responsible for closing the hundreds of hurricane
protection floodgates and valves on levees surrounding the city. All
residents outside of these levees evacuate.
The District's General Fund accounts for all operating funds for the
daily operations of the Administrative Offices, Field Forces, Law
Enforcement and support operations necessary to maintain the Board's
level of services for flood protection and public safety.
The District's Special Levee Improvement Projects Fund (SLIP) accounts
for the capital funds for major maintenance and/or capital improvements
of all physical property and plant owned by the Board that is identified
as directly related to flood protection.
The District's General Improvement Fund accounts for the capital funds
for major maintenance or capital improvement of all physical property
and plant owned by the Board that is not identified as directly related
to flood protection. These projects relate to land reclamation,
commercial buildings, improvements (other than buildings), and
infrastructure."
...
Thanks for the link. I had the site in my bookmarks, but had not
thought to go there. I don't think it supports you claim, but it is
interesting. The key phrase is "is responsible for 129 miles of ...".
(By that article it was a floodwall that was breached, not a levee.
Not a meaningful distinction for us, but it is interesting to see the
technical terms.) "Is responsible" for can have lots of meanings. I
suspect that they were not responsible for construction. The rest of
the quote is not relevant since they really refer back to the area of
responsibility. I was wrong about the city "not touching" the levee's,
but I am still sure that the Corp/Feds are responsible for the
construction and major maintenance of the levees. So far no one but
you has suggested that the City could have added to the levees (we
should use the common term) on their own.
BTW, from that page:
"About one half of the population of the city can't and won't evacuate
during a hurricane. Many people, about 200,000, do not have
automobiles or access to an automobile. There are an additional 20,000
special needs people that cannot be easily moved. Finally, there
several hundred thousand people that will not evacuate because of the
difficulty of actually evacuating and finding suitable shelters."
"The hurricane protection levees surrounding the city are designed to
protect the city from a category slow 2 or fast category 3 hurricane.
Thus for any slow category 3, or category 4 or 5 hurricanes, the
possibility exists for flooding the metropolitan area of New Orleans."
Failure to adequately prepare for this is horrendous and remarkably
damaging to our country. Failure to properly protect the shipping
channel is also rather terrible. Unfortunately that is not getting
covered much at all.
Hurricane Georges (September 15 - October 01, 1998)
...When Georges appeared headed for New Orleans, the Superdome was
opened as a shelter and an estimated 14,000 people poured in. But there
were problems, including theft and vandalism, and people were cooped up
in the Superdome for days...
Hurricane Ivan (September 14 2004)
Hurricane Ivan (September 14 2004)
Although Hurricane Ivan did not cause significant damage in New Orleans,
the Class 4 hurricane did expose shortcomings in the city's evacuation
plans. More than 1 million people tried to leave the city and
surrounding suburbs on Tuesday September 14, 2004, creating a traffic
jam as bad as or worse than the evacuation that followed Georges. In the
afternoon, state police reversing inbound lanes on southeastern
Louisiana interstates to provide more escape routes. But the state
police never expected the 60 miles between New Orleans and Baton Rouge
would turn into a seven-hour-long crawl. Those too poor to leave the
city had to find their own shelter - a policy that was eventually
reversed, but only a few hours before the deadly storm struck land.
And FEMA had exercises to work on the evacuation of the metropolitan
area. And when the scientists pointed out the possibility of flooding
they received, according to quotes I have seen many places, silence.
Yes, Fred, they should have known this. If the mayor of this poor city
had the resources and failed to act, he was wrong. If the state had
the resources and failed to act, they were wrong. But the Feds did
have, or could have had, the resources and failed to properly act. One
of the reasons, it seems, is that LA did not have two senators from
the ruling party. Alaska does and gets multi-million dollar bridges to
nowhere. LA had democrats in power, so they were cut off.
I am sure that if the Army Corp was
working on it that it was out of bounds for anyone else to go near.
Do you have a single reference to suggest that it was even a
possibility that the city could work on that on its own?
Do you have a reference that they could not?
Well, that no one, other than you, has tried to pass the buck back to
them is something. And that the Corp took responsibility in all of the
exercises and planning.
I'm not the only one.
I am interested in others, who have relevant knowledge, who say that
NO could have built up the levees on their own.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
05 Sep 2005 02:25:31 PM |
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Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:3a0ph19sdoav7itqf3js1o9cro7emubfba@4ax.com:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:53:56 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125939236.239f6607e61541751c9cfea689d55605@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:saooh19tmgkgvcrilbsi0muq9t1pq029td@4ax.com:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:22:13 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125922933.c873338422fb62413b37a900d94a47c2@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote
in news:61gnh154t0hv4kmmu2b5rrfuk9ecl33ats@4ax.com:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:45:50 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125837950.67004bb6deedcda2d93d30f039d3d484@teranews> wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:ADuSe.704$ua1.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
[snip]
Why in a town with most of the population below the poverty line
didn't the levee get fixed properly the last time it partially
breached?
Ask the mayor. New Orleans isn't so poor that it couldn't afford
to fix its own infrastructure, if that was a priority. What *do*
they do with all the tax revenue from tourists?
I am willing to bet real money that the City of New Orleans was
not allowed to touch the levees.
That's odd, since they have "levee authorities" for each and every
one of them.
Do they do any building on the levees?
Yes, they do. The Orleans Levee District is responsible for management
of the levees.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/hurricane-risk-new-
orleans.htm
"Orleans Levee District, a quasi-governmental body, is resposponsible
for 129 miles of earthen levees, floodwalls, 190 floodgates, 2 flood
control structures, and 100 valves. The governor appoints six of the
board's eight members, and they serve at his pleasure. When a storm
approaches it is responsible for closing the hundreds of hurricane
protection floodgates and valves on levees surrounding the city. All
residents outside of these levees evacuate.
The District's General Fund accounts for all operating funds for the
daily operations of the Administrative Offices, Field Forces, Law
Enforcement and support operations necessary to maintain the Board's
level of services for flood protection and public safety.
The District's Special Levee Improvement Projects Fund (SLIP) accounts
for the capital funds for major maintenance and/or capital
improvements of all physical property and plant owned by the Board
that is identified as directly related to flood protection.
The District's General Improvement Fund accounts for the capital funds
for major maintenance or capital improvement of all physical property
and plant owned by the Board that is not identified as directly
related to flood protection. These projects relate to land
reclamation, commercial buildings, improvements (other than
buildings), and infrastructure."
...
Thanks for the link. I had the site in my bookmarks, but had not
thought to go there. I don't think it supports you claim, but it is
interesting. The key phrase is "is responsible for 129 miles of ...".
(By that article it was a floodwall that was breached, not a levee.
Not a meaningful distinction for us, but it is interesting to see the
technical terms.) "Is responsible" for can have lots of meanings. I
suspect that they were not responsible for construction. The rest of
the quote is not relevant since they really refer back to the area of
responsibility. I was wrong about the city "not touching" the levee's,
but I am still sure that the Corp/Feds are responsible for the
construction and major maintenance of the levees. So far no one but
you has suggested that the City could have added to the levees (we
should use the common term) on their own.
It does mention funding for maintenace and construction.
BTW, from that page:
"About one half of the population of the city can't and won't evacuate
during a hurricane. Many people, about 200,000, do not have
automobiles or access to an automobile. There are an additional 20,000
special needs people that cannot be easily moved. Finally, there
several hundred thousand people that will not evacuate because of the
difficulty of actually evacuating and finding suitable shelters."
"The hurricane protection levees surrounding the city are designed to
protect the city from a category slow 2 or fast category 3 hurricane.
Thus for any slow category 3, or category 4 or 5 hurricanes, the
possibility exists for flooding the metropolitan area of New Orleans."
Indeed. There were specific recommendations made to the city of New
Orleans because of these studies and the results of past experience with
hurricanes such as Ivan.
Failure to adequately prepare for this is horrendous and remarkably
damaging to our country. Failure to properly protect the shipping
channel is also rather terrible. Unfortunately that is not getting
covered much at all.
Hurricane Georges (September 15 - October 01, 1998)
...When Georges appeared headed for New Orleans, the Superdome was
opened as a shelter and an estimated 14,000 people poured in. But
there were problems, including theft and vandalism, and people were
cooped up in the Superdome for days...
Hurricane Ivan (September 14 2004)
Hurricane Ivan (September 14 2004)
Although Hurricane Ivan did not cause significant damage in New
Orleans, the Class 4 hurricane did expose shortcomings in the city's
evacuation plans. More than 1 million people tried to leave the city
and surrounding suburbs on Tuesday September 14, 2004, creating a
traffic jam as bad as or worse than the evacuation that followed
Georges. In the afternoon, state police reversing inbound lanes on
southeastern Louisiana interstates to provide more escape routes. But
the state police never expected the 60 miles between New Orleans and
Baton Rouge would turn into a seven-hour-long crawl. Those too poor to
leave the city had to find their own shelter - a policy that was
eventually reversed, but only a few hours before the deadly storm
struck land.
And FEMA had exercises to work on the evacuation of the metropolitan
area. And when the scientists pointed out the possibility of flooding
they received, according to quotes I have seen many places, silence.
Yes, Fred, they should have known this.
Yes, of course. I'm sure that they *did* know this.
If the mayor of this poor city
had the resources and failed to act, he was wrong. If the state had
the resources and failed to act, they were wrong. But the Feds did
have, or could have had, the resources and failed to properly act.
How were the Feds supposed to get enough transport into the city and
move people out in less than 24 hours? The city had hundreds of buses
available that the mayor should have commandeered for evacuation duty,
starting about two days sooner than the actual mandatory evacuation
order. That is what is specified in the city disaster plan document.
One
of the reasons, it seems, is that LA did not have two senators from
the ruling party. Alaska does and gets multi-million dollar bridges to
nowhere. LA had democrats in power, so they were cut off.
Go here: http://publications.cagw.org/pigbook/pigbook.php3
Then select "Louisiana" in the state box and click "Submit".
I am sure that if the Army Corp was
working on it that it was out of bounds for anyone else to go
near. Do you have a single reference to suggest that it was even a
possibility that the city could work on that on its own?
Do you have a reference that they could not?
Well, that no one, other than you, has tried to pass the buck back
to them is something. And that the Corp took responsibility in all
of the exercises and planning.
I'm not the only one.
I am interested in others, who have relevant knowledge, who say that
NO could have built up the levees on their own.
I'm still wondering what would stop them from doing it on their own.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
I think if we had a three-word message right now it’d be, ‘We can do
better.’ - Howard Dean
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
04 Sep 2005 10:48:26 PM |
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On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:24:01 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125753841.eace95b058b948f357e1be53861d6ce1@teranews> wrote:
[snip]
The president is not God.
Astounding. You have now raised Shrub to the level that, in your mind,
he would have to be God to do better. You are so unable to admit one
single flaw in the man.
[snip]
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
05 Sep 2005 07:19:49 AM |
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Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:stfnh1hfm84odeao78rh7qqhec7ncms402@4ax.com:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:24:01 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125753841.eace95b058b948f357e1be53861d6ce1@teranews> wrote:
[snip]
The president is not God.
Astounding. You have now raised Shrub to the level that, in your mind,
he would have to be God to do better. You are so unable to admit one
single flaw in the man.
No, *YOU* have raised him to the level that he would have to be God to
do what you seem to expect him to do.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
I think if we had a three-word message right now it’d be, ‘We can do
better.’
- Howard Dean
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
05 Sep 2005 12:21:38 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:19:49 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125922789.7f7d765fac535c656b38a190fc2793bd@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:stfnh1hfm84odeao78rh7qqhec7ncms402@4ax.com:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:24:01 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125753841.eace95b058b948f357e1be53861d6ce1@teranews> wrote:
[snip]
The president is not God.
Astounding. You have now raised Shrub to the level that, in your mind,
he would have to be God to do better. You are so unable to admit one
single flaw in the man.
No, *YOU* have raised him to the level that he would have to be God to
do what you seem to expect him to do.
You mean like know like the rest of us, on Sat and Sun, that NO might
flood? You mean know, like plenty of others did, that FEMA had, under
his watch, said that a major hurricane flooding NO was, along with a
terrorist attack inside the U.S., one of the three biggest fears they
have. Sorry, but I figure that if he can afford 5 weeks vacation in
the middle of a war, and afford to take more vacation than any other
president in history, then he has had time to learn and do these
things. He had time to give a pep speech in San Diego, take a few days
off, and then head to NO. I am sorry, but when you argue that the man
is able to take so much time off then you have to accept that his
failures will be discussed. If he had weeks to clear brush, then he
had time to read up on FEMA's concerns.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
05 Sep 2005 01:08:58 PM |
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Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:ngvoh1pqf07uarf6595lc3ggluo18hdqm3@4ax.com:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:19:49 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125922789.7f7d765fac535c656b38a190fc2793bd@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:stfnh1hfm84odeao78rh7qqhec7ncms402@4ax.com:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:24:01 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125753841.eace95b058b948f357e1be53861d6ce1@teranews> wrote:
[snip]
The president is not God.
Astounding. You have now raised Shrub to the level that, in your
mind, he would have to be God to do better. You are so unable to
admit one single flaw in the man.
No, *YOU* have raised him to the level that he would have to be God to
do what you seem to expect him to do.
You mean like know like the rest of us, on Sat and Sun, that NO might
flood? You mean know, like plenty of others did, that FEMA had, under
his watch, said that a major hurricane flooding NO was, along with a
terrorist attack inside the U.S., one of the three biggest fears they
have. Sorry, but I figure that if he can afford 5 weeks vacation in
the middle of a war, and afford to take more vacation than any other
president in history, then he has had time to learn and do these
things. He had time to give a pep speech in San Diego, take a few days
off, and then head to NO. I am sorry, but when you argue that the man
is able to take so much time off then you have to accept that his
failures will be discussed. If he had weeks to clear brush, then he
had time to read up on FEMA's concerns.
Nice list of talking points there, Matt. Too bad they've all been
covered before this, and not in your favor.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
I think if we had a three-word message right now it’d be, ‘We can do
better.’ - Howard Dean
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
05 Sep 2005 03:30:41 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 18:08:58 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125943738.4963b0126764334c74bef4c1168c55d6@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:ngvoh1pqf07uarf6595lc3ggluo18hdqm3@4ax.com:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:19:49 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125922789.7f7d765fac535c656b38a190fc2793bd@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:stfnh1hfm84odeao78rh7qqhec7ncms402@4ax.com:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:24:01 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125753841.eace95b058b948f357e1be53861d6ce1@teranews> wrote:
[snip]
The president is not God.
Astounding. You have now raised Shrub to the level that, in your
mind, he would have to be God to do better. You are so unable to
admit one single flaw in the man.
No, *YOU* have raised him to the level that he would have to be God to
do what you seem to expect him to do.
You mean like know like the rest of us, on Sat and Sun, that NO might
flood? You mean know, like plenty of others did, that FEMA had, under
his watch, said that a major hurricane flooding NO was, along with a
terrorist attack inside the U.S., one of the three biggest fears they
have. Sorry, but I figure that if he can afford 5 weeks vacation in
the middle of a war, and afford to take more vacation than any other
president in history, then he has had time to learn and do these
things. He had time to give a pep speech in San Diego, take a few days
off, and then head to NO. I am sorry, but when you argue that the man
is able to take so much time off then you have to accept that his
failures will be discussed. If he had weeks to clear brush, then he
had time to read up on FEMA's concerns.
Nice list of talking points there, Matt. Too bad they've all been
covered before this, and not in your favor.
How can I refute an argument like that?
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
07 Sep 2005 07:32:18 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 20:30:41 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 18:08:58 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125943738.4963b0126764334c74bef4c1168c55d6@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:ngvoh1pqf07uarf6595lc3ggluo18hdqm3@4ax.com:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:19:49 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125922789.7f7d765fac535c656b38a190fc2793bd@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:stfnh1hfm84odeao78rh7qqhec7ncms402@4ax.com:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:24:01 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125753841.eace95b058b948f357e1be53861d6ce1@teranews> wrote:
[snip]
The president is not God.
Astounding. You have now raised Shrub to the level that, in your
mind, he would have to be God to do better. You are so unable to
admit one single flaw in the man.
No, *YOU* have raised him to the level that he would have to be God to
do what you seem to expect him to do.
You mean like know like the rest of us, on Sat and Sun, that NO might
flood? You mean know, like plenty of others did, that FEMA had, under
his watch, said that a major hurricane flooding NO was, along with a
terrorist attack inside the U.S., one of the three biggest fears they
have. Sorry, but I figure that if he can afford 5 weeks vacation in
the middle of a war, and afford to take more vacation than any other
president in history, then he has had time to learn and do these
things. He had time to give a pep speech in San Diego, take a few days
off, and then head to NO. I am sorry, but when you argue that the man
is able to take so much time off then you have to accept that his
failures will be discussed. If he had weeks to clear brush, then he
had time to read up on FEMA's concerns.
Nice list of talking points there, Matt. Too bad they've all been
covered before this, and not in your favor.
How can I refute an argument like that?
That was Phred's way of unconditional surrender.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
05 Sep 2005 01:33:13 PM |
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TV's Fred Stone wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:stfnh1hfm84odeao78rh7qqhec7ncms402@4ax.com:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:24:01 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1125753841.eace95b058b948f357e1be53861d6ce1@teranews> wrote:
[snip]
The president is not God.
Astounding. You have now raised Shrub to the level that, in your mind,
he would have to be God to do better. You are so unable to admit one
single flaw in the man.
No, *YOU* have raised him to the level that he would have to be God to
do what you seem to expect him to do.
Quit projecting, Pfred.
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
03 Sep 2005 12:37:48 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:UU6Se.1657$ZL4.663@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
It's telling that you think that "sending the right message" is more
important than what the president was actually doing, which was
getting things in motion to deal with the problem.
Which was so badly done that even he admitted it.
In situations like that "getting things in motion to deal with the
problem." pretty much says it all to people involved in EMS.
The recent RAPID response in other states shows what happens when you
pre-plan.
At that level, it's the city and the state that are responsible for
the pre-planning. Look at this picture and tell me that NO did all
they could to evacuate people.
It took the rest of the white house crowd to figure out this is a national
disaster, maybe you'll catch on some day too.
Pre-planning for a city fundamental to our economy may be the job of the
locals but it is the president who is responsible.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015
And there are other reports of fire and police vehicles flooded too.
Why weren't they running for high ground? Somebody dropped the ball
at the local level.
Of course there are fire and police vehicles flooded. It's their job to be
where the trouble is.
We're the ones that run into the flaming building.
Chances are it will still be a cluster ***** but *something* will be
done.
It's not like the town has not been hit before.
"And as early as 1722, when the city was only a few years old, its
first great hurricane arrived, on Sept. 12.
"Toward 10 o'clock in the evening there sprang up the most terrible
hurricane which has been seen in these quarters," Diron D'Artaguiette
wrote in his journal. "At New Orleans 34 houses were destroyed as
well as the sheds, including the parsonage and hospital."
Again in 1779 a mighty storm swept into the city, prompting the then
Spanish governor Bernardo de Galvez to report: "The village presents
the most pitiful sight. There are but few houses which have not been
destroyed, and there are so many wrecked to pieces."
.
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| User: "WCB" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
04 Sep 2005 07:35:31 AM |
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Mike Painter wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:UU6Se.1657$ZL4.663@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
It's telling that you think that "sending the right message" is more
important than what the president was actually doing, which was
getting things in motion to deal with the problem.
Which was so badly done that even he admitted it.
In situations like that "getting things in motion to deal with the
problem." pretty much says it all to people involved in EMS.
The recent RAPID response in other states shows what happens when you
pre-plan.
At that level, it's the city and the state that are responsible for
the pre-planning. Look at this picture and tell me that NO did all
they could to evacuate people.
It took the rest of the white house crowd to figure out this is a national
disaster, maybe you'll catch on some day too.
Pre-planning for a city fundamental to our economy may be the job of the
locals but it is the president who is responsible.
Its EVERYBODY'S job. The problem is, Bush gutted FEMA
This was the one organization that could cooridinate local, state, federal,
military, national guard, private aid agencies, and all else in
time of emergency.
And it was not there when needed despite warnings that this
disaster was one of teh three most dreaded by planners.
The state failed and so did the city. Obviously the New Orleans Police
Department was cluelessly leaderless and had no plans.
But FEMA should have been there years ago, pointing that out.
FEMA had experience with lots of hurricanes and disasters over years
past and was supposed to learn from experience and pass exprienece
and planning on to state and local levels. But since Bush gutted it,
removed its primary focuse of disaster prevention and relief, and
stuck useless political appointees to lead it, Bush and his compliant
GOP Congress bear direct responsibilty overall for all of this.
What we need to do now, is as a people, conservative liberal,
apathetic but recently wised up, demand FEMA be reinstated
with full funding and cabinet level status.
We need state FEMAs that help coordinate efforts, and plan
ahead of time. We need preplanning with national guards,
military, and government bureacracies.
We need coordinated planning with police departments all
across the gulf from Florida to Brownsville to prevent leaderless
chaos such as seen in New Orleans. We are not getting that with Bush
and the GOP. If a class 5 hurricane hit the Houston area, what is
the plan here with local police departments? I can bet you there are no
real plans.
How about hospitals? New Orleans was unprepared for this.
No power and no water for a week. How many other possible
areas haven't a clue? FEMA had a task and its not operative
anymore.
Every area should have a plan for evacuation of refugees.
Realizations that NO had need and no plans they made
requests for funding to set up out of city centers in 2004.
It was denied. Bush and the GOP sat there with thumbs
jammed up asses and no FEMA to champion the cause of
prudence and planning and effective programs to deal
with obvious problems.
The GOP/conservative/Bush way is a failure. Time
to fiux blame where it belongs and demand 180 degree
immediate reversal of course. The Reagan revolution ways
don't work. Bush benign neglect do-nothingism is
a failure. GOP pork politics, starving Lousiana (democrat
voters!) while doling out billions to GOP Alaska for massive
bridges to nowhere is stupid and totally unacceptable.
--
Xenu is around and about,
mention Hubbard, Xenu pops out!
No way for the clams to stamp Xenu out,
Xenu is around and about!
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
02 Sep 2005 11:50:43 PM |
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TV's Fred Stone wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:UU6Se.1657$ZL4.663@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
It's telling that you think that "sending the right message" is more
important than what the president was actually doing, which was
getting things in motion to deal with the problem.
Which was so badly done that even he admitted it.
In situations like that "getting things in motion to deal with the
problem." pretty much says it all to people involved in EMS.
The recent RAPID response in other states shows what happens when you
pre-plan.
At that level, it's the city and the state that are responsible for the
pre-planning. Look at this picture and tell me that NO did all they
could to evacuate people.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015
And there are other reports of fire and police vehicles flooded too. Why
weren't they running for high ground? Somebody dropped the ball at the
local level.
I agree. Somebody also dropped the ball at the national level, something
you are unwilling to admit thanks to your worship of a politician.
.
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| User: "WCB" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
03 Sep 2005 04:54:06 AM |
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towelie wrote:
TV's Fred Stone wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:UU6Se.1657$ZL4.663@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
It's telling that you think that "sending the right message" is more
important than what the president was actually doing, which was
getting things in motion to deal with the problem.
Which was so badly done that even he admitted it.
In situations like that "getting things in motion to deal with the
problem." pretty much says it all to people involved in EMS.
The recent RAPID response in other states shows what happens when you
pre-plan.
At that level, it's the city and the state that are responsible for the
pre-planning. Look at this picture and tell me that NO did all they
could to evacuate people.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015
And there are other reports of fire and police vehicles flooded too. Why
weren't they running for high ground? Somebody dropped the ball at the
local level.
I agree. Somebody also dropped the ball at the national level, something
you are unwilling to admit thanks to your worship of a politician.
It was dropped all around, from top to bottom.
The state was not prepared either. Nor city.
Nor national guards, nor armed forces, nor Fema, nor Bush,
all around it was a wash.
Money asked for to plan evacuations and reaction
to a massive flooding situation was denied in 2004
to the city, and the state at that point dropped the ball
too. But then, remember, FEMA used to be good at
this stuff, I suspect the state failed to understand how badly it had
degenerated. Still, part of FEMA was leadership, making
sure the states were in fact doing their part, which was
a big failing under Bush I, which lit a fire under Clinton
when he was elected. Some states, Florida do more because
its bad politics not to get it right. Some states, Mississppi, Alabama,
in this case, Lousiana often don't do much. Mississippi at state
level got caught short too.
So there is fault to pass around for all.
Reports are, planning for hurricanes in Lousiana made bad
assumptions of class three hurricanes and no levees breaking.
Its dumb to not plan for worst case scenarios.
Here in Texas, Houston, we have our own failings, looking
at the Houston Chronicle coverage of hurricanes.
For decades we have had bad flooding problems at part of our
highway systems and in a big hurricane, evacuation is going
to be a big problem. We have had YEARS, decades to deal with it
and nothing was in fact done. Not a federal problem, but a
state problem. Bush most certainly as governor did nothing
about it. Our current crop of dunderheads aren't doing anything.
The fools before Bush didn't do dirt.
If we ever have a class 4 or 5 hurricane, we could have a lot
of death here because the state did nothing when it was long
known we had problems.
When Bush was guv, it turned out 1 out of 3 bridges in Texas was
in unsafe condition. Nothing much has been done. That's the way
it gets done here and why Bush does things the way he does. Because
its the way. You sit on you butt and election time, lie, lie, lie about your
accomplishments and leadership. You call your opponent a librul and pour
big bizness's lucre into ads. And lie, lie, lie.
The problem is, if we get hit, the same dumbfucks will still
be re-elected.
That is why these things happen.
There is no leadership anywhere any more because we Americans
only deal with libruls-evil-vote-Republican and care about little
else all to often.
Some day, that will kill hundreds, maybe thousands of
dumbass Texans when they need to get out of Baytown,
Galveston, and other low lying areas ahead of a 23 foot storm surge
and the freeways are no longer passable at the usual places
because of high water. I have seen some places with 30 feet of water
in them running two miles. And no planning to tell anybody
where to go and where to avoid if it hits big time.
No plans here either. And Fema is not going to pick
up the slack.
The dumbfucks are not all in Washington.
A class 5 hurricane would flatten much of the Houston area
from Galveston to downtown Houston and there is less
planning here than New Orleans for sure. We have potential
for a bigger problem than New Orleans. We have 4 times the
population and no levees to amount to anything at all and a lot
of low lying areas heavily populated that will be under water. Deep
underwater.
FEMA and the federal government has no magic wand to
deal with state level stupidity, inertia and lack of intelligence and
initiative. All you have to do to win office here is call your
opponent a liberal.
If Bush was competent, and he is not, as soon as the initial
problems in Lousiana are dealt with, he'd call a national
meeting of all states bordering along the Gulf Coast
and The Southern Atlantic, to get the governors on board
a national plan to start dealing with hurricanes over the
next years and decades. Watch. He won't.
We are sitting on time bombs.
And there is no leadership, state, local or federal.
We are sheep led by fools.
--
Xenu is around and about,
mention Hubbard, Xenu pops out!
No way for the clams to stamp Xenu out,
Xenu is around and about!
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "WCB" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
03 Sep 2005 01:57:11 AM |
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Mike Painter wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
It's telling that you think that "sending the right message" is more
important than what the president was actually doing, which was
getting things in motion to deal with the problem.
Which was so badly done that even he admitted it.
In situations like that "getting things in motion to deal with the
problem." pretty much says it all to people involved in EMS.
The recent RAPID response in other states shows what happens when you
pre-plan.
Chances are it will still be a cluster ***** but *something* will be done.
Well, here is the problem....
While some in New Orleans fault FEMA - Terry Ebbert, homeland security
director for New Orleans, called it a "hamstrung" bureaucracy - others say
any blame should be more widely spread. Local, state and federal officials,
for example, have cooperated on disaster planning. In 2000, they studied
the impact of a fictional "Hurricane Zebra"; last year they drilled with
"Hurricane Pam."
Neither exercise expected the levees to fail. In an interview Thursday on
"Good Morning America," President Bush said, "I don't think anyone
anticipated the breach of the levees." He added, "Now we're having to deal
with it, and will."
1. Failure to consider worst case scenarios.
Some lapses may have occurred because of budget cuts. For example, Mr.
Tolbert, the former FEMA official, said that "funding dried up" for
follow-up to the 2004 Hurricane Pam exercise, cutting off work on plans to
shelter thousands of survivors.
2. Knowing problems existed, slash funding.
Brian Wolshon, an engineering professor at Louisiana State University who
served as a consultant on the state's evacuation plan, said little
attention was paid to moving out New Orleans's "low-mobility" population -
the elderly, the infirm and the poor without cars or other means of fleeing
the city, about 100,000 people.
At disaster planning meetings, he said, "the answer was often silence."
3. Knowing problems exist, sit there with your thumb up your *****.
Knowing probably that higher ups, Senators and Bush, won't do
dirt, even if warned, "We have problems".
If the leaders of such efforts either just sit there, incapable of effort,
or unwilling to face down unwilling government, we need to clean house.
*****
Inevitably, the involvement of dozens of agencies complicated the response.
FEMA and its parent agency, the Department of Homeland Security, were in
charge of coordinating 14 federal agencies with state and local
authorities. But Mayor C. Ray Nagin of New Orleans complained Wednesday on
CNN that there were too many cooks involved.
********
FEMA should have been in place will well developed plans well coordinated
with structured plans in place. That was what it was designed to do when
President Carter created FEMA. Just because we had this sort of problems.
Unlike a terrorist attack or an earthquake, Hurricane Katrina gave
considerable notice of its arrival. It was on Thursday, Aug. 25, that a
tropical storm that had formed in the Bahamas reached hurricane strength
and got its name.
Failure starts with Bush for slashing FEMA and cutting budgets
to pay for the war he lied us into. There is a lot of blame to trickle
down, starting with GOP House and Senate leaders, then GOP rank and file
that always had money for wars and poork, never for Lousiana with
its problems of hurricane preparedness, or lack of competence of FEMA
after Bush gutted it.
It's not like the town has not been hit before.
"And as early as 1722, when the city was only a few years old, its first
great hurricane arrived, on Sept. 12.
"Toward 10 o'clock in the evening there sprang up the most terrible
hurricane which has been seen in these quarters," Diron D'Artaguiette
wrote in his journal. "At New Orleans 34 houses were destroyed as well as
the sheds, including the parsonage and hospital."
Again in 1779 a mighty storm swept into the city, prompting the then
Spanish governor Bernardo de Galvez to report: "The village presents the
most pitiful sight. There are but few houses which have not been
destroyed, and there are so many wrecked to pieces."
--
Xenu is around and about,
mention Hubbard, Xenu pops out!
No way for the clams to stamp Xenu out,
Xenu is around and about!
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
02 Sep 2005 12:55:43 PM |
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TV's Fred Stone wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0_mdnSPjzcUR5YXeRVn-1Q@centurytel.net:
TV's Fred Stone wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:B8idnZ2dnZ3IIzf6nZ2dnWIwit6dnZ2dRVn-zJ2dnZ0@centurytel.net:
TV's Fred Stone wrote:
Apostate <apostate.invalid.still@yeehaw.org> wrote in
news:1125608387.2406415560d2e2bdd12fa6fb444816f2@teranews:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:53:31 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Apostate wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 05:19:33 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Does it involve multiplication tables?
It went past that shortly after 9/11. Now it's exponential
I was posing/querying about the reason the test would be hard
for shrub.
But since you bring it up, I don't doubt that he and his
handlers can muster the managerial what-have-you to mount a
disaster reponse, after the fact. It's just a shame they
collectively lack the perspective that foresight matters in
any arena that /doesn't/ involve Arab nationals. Or the
progress of theocracy in the U.S.
They did OK after 9/11. Bush and "his handlers" basically just have
to keep out of the way and expedite resource requests through the
bureaucracy.
And in fact Bush has done just fine so far. He declared the state
of emergency *before* Katrina hit so that the relevant federal
agencies were already getting mobilized.
But he didn't bother coming back from vacation until TWO FUCKING
DAYS after the disaster occured.
So fucking what? You never heard of telephones?
I've heard of Presidents doing the right thing by sending the right
message to the American public. If he was working, he should have
said "The vacation is being cut short on Monday". Not "The vacation
is being cut short, but I want to sit with my head up my ***** for two
more days."
It's telling that you think that "sending the right message" is more
important than what the president was actually doing, which was getting
things in motion to deal with the problem.
HE WAS ON VACATION.
He had the nerve to cut the vacation short, but two days too late. What a
fucking piece of low-life ***** he is, and what a tool you are for defending
his every blunder.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Hard New Test for President |
02 Sep 2005 01:06:55 PM |
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"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:NKudnZ2dnZ2b2xvXnZ2dnZAPhd6dnZ2dRVn-052dnZ0@centurytel.net:
TV's Fred Stone wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0_mdnSPjzcUR5YXeRVn-1Q@centurytel.net:
TV's Fred Stone wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:B8idnZ2dnZ3IIzf6nZ2dnWIwit6dnZ2dRVn-zJ2dnZ0@centurytel.net:
TV's Fred Stone wrote:
Apostate <apostate.invalid.still@yeehaw.org> wrote in
news:1125608387.2406415560d2e2bdd12fa6fb444816f2@teranews:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:53:31 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Apostate wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 05:19:33 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Does it involve multiplication tables?
It went past that shortly after 9/11. Now it's exponential
I was posing/querying about the reason the test would be
hard for shrub.
But since you bring it up, I don't doubt that he and his
handlers can muster the managerial what-have-you to mount a
disaster reponse, after the fact. It's just a shame they
collectively lack the perspective that foresight matters in
any arena that /doesn't/ involve Arab nationals. Or the
progress of theocracy in the U.S.
They did OK after 9/11. Bush and "his handlers" basically just
have to keep out of the way and expedite resource requests
through the bureaucracy.
And in fact Bush has done just fine so far. He declared the state
of emergency *before* Katrina hit so that the relevant federal
agencies were already getting mobilized.
But he didn't bother coming back from vacation until TWO FUCKING
DAYS after the disaster occured.
So fucking what? You never heard of telephones?
I've heard of Presidents doing the right thing by sending the right
message to the American pub | | |
