"Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"MrPepper11"
Date:	17 Jan 2005 03:02:27 PM
Object:	"Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"

Religious conservatives are trying to win the hearts and minds of
youngsters, many of whom will be able to vote in 2008...
January 17, 2005
In Divided U.S., A Big Question: Who Gets the Kids?
Tale of Taxing Lemonade Stand
By JEFFREY ZASLOW
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
ORLANDO, Fla. -- As conservatives plan for the battles ahead, they're
enlisting a new generation of foot soldiers: kids....
Natalie Hair, 15, attends First Baptist Church of Orlando, a
10,000-member evangelical church. She says she feels a duty to
"witness" by telling public-school classmates the Bible forbids
homosexuality, abortion and premarital sex. She's glad her church
teaches creationism. "That helps me defend my belief that evolution is
false," she says. She's a fan of George W. Bush, who won a mock
election among young parishioners at First Baptist, with 95% of the
votes....
"The entire cultural battle is over the children," says Mathew Staver,
who heads the Orlando-based Liberty Counsel, a conservative
legal-defense group that has been at the forefront of fights over gay
marriage, school prayer, and abortion.
Mr. Staver, a lawyer, is also vice chairman of the Moral Majority
Coalition, a group headed by the Rev. Jerry Falwell. That group says it
is mounting "an evangelical revolution" built on the momentum of Mr.
Bush's victory. Its goals include lobbying for "pro-life, strict
constructionist" Supreme Court justices and federal judges, and working
for a Constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage.
Mr. Falwell says the coalition hopes to register 10 million new young
voters by 2008 "to make sure Hillary Clinton remains a senator" -- and
never becomes president. He sends e-mails to hundreds of thousands of
students every week, he says, using addresses collected by church youth
groups and 22 recruiters the coalition has on the road. "I'm the Pied
Piper," he says....
Some liberals say it's not easy for them to reach kids. While
conservatives have large forums, such as evangelical churches, "there
aren't ACLU buildings that have meetings every Saturday for kids," says
the Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for
Separation of Church and State, a Washington, D.C.-based group.
Mr. Lynn predicts many children who now endorse their elders'
conservative values will reject them when they grow up. "At age 10, you
don't know [peers] who've become pregnant, or are gay," he says. "You
haven't learned the nuances on complex issues."
Open Minds
The Liberty Counsel's Mr. Staver argues that even if children's
thinking is more simplistic, their minds are more open. He calls ages 5
to 12 the key years for guiding children in "the right direction." He
says his group discovered the line "whoever captures the kids owns the
future" in a gay-rights essay in the magazine "The Advocate." Now, he
says, conservative activists are determined to prove that true -- on
their terms.
There's even a niche market in politically abrasive children's
literature. One new book is titled "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under
My Bed!" It tells the fictional tale of two boys who try to run a
lemonade stand, while liberals keep showing up, taking half their money
in taxes, and forcing them to remove the photo of Jesus that hangs on
the stand.
The book is written under a pen name because the author says she fears
for her children's safety. In Fort Mill, S.C., 10-year-old Abbey
Kirrane received the book from her mom. "If you listen to liberals,"
she says, "they take away your dreams and hopes for the future." Abbey
believes the book accurately describes liberals. "They can be pushy.
They tell you what to do."
The book, which is sold in some bookstores and online, is the first in
a series by World Ahead Publishing, of Gardena, Calif. Up next: "Help!
Mom! Hollywood is in my Hamper!"....
The Republican National Committee reaches out through groups such as
"Teen Age Republicans." This week, the RNC is asking supporters to join
its "Parties for the President" program by inviting neighbors and their
kids into their homes to watch the inauguration. "There will be
hundreds of parties with thousands of people," says a spokesman.
Metropolitan Orlando, with a population of 1.8 million, is fertile
territory for politically charged cultural arguments because it has
become a center of evangelical life. The area is headquarters for
Wycliffe Bible Translators, a nonprofit group which translates the
Bible into foreign languages, Campus Crusade for Christ, and a host of
other ministries....
Connie Price, who belongs to First Baptist, says she feels "threatened
by the liberal perspective that wants me to accept homosexuality." She
tells her four children "to love our enemy" and be respectful, "but if
you know you're right, based on biblical principles, stand firm."....
As they become politically active, young people come face to face with
America's divide. Dominique Roberts, 18, says she can't forget a woman
she met while going door-to-door on behalf of the Kerry campaign. The
woman explained that she was glad Mr. Bush had gone to war because if
he hadn't, "the terrorists could come to Orlando, pull you into the
street, and chop your head off," Ms. Roberts recalls.
Sara Trollinger is among those in Orlando working to help young people
embody conservative values. She is the founder of House of Hope, a
residential facility that counsels teens in crisis using biblical
principles.
Her political ties were forged through a miracle of sorts. On May 28,
1985, an article was written about her program in the Orlando Sentinel.
That day, President Ronald Reagan happened to be in town giving a
speech. Ms. Trollinger says she prayed he would see the article. He got
on Air Force One after the speech, read the story, and wrote the
facility a personal check for $1,000.
Today, a photocopy of Mr. Reagan's check hangs in the facility's
entryway. A large painting of Jesus is surrounded by photos of Ms.
Trollinger with Mr. Reagan, George W. Bush, and Florida Gov. Jeb Bush.
When conservative leaders speak of faith-based initiatives, they often
laud House of Hope, which has seven affiliates.
Most of the 37 teens living in the Orlando facility have awful
histories: violence, abuse, addictions. Almost all of them say they
support Mr. Bush. They've discussed that he was a drinker who found
God, and they see themselves in that story. "God can change your
character if you let him," said Gus, 16. Ms. Trollinger describes Bill
Clinton as "a terrible role model for our young people." She had
residents pray for him when he was president.
The teens are also schooled in the nuts and bolts of politics,
including taking road trips to the state capital in Tallahassee to see
how bills are passed.
"This is the generation that will change the morality of America," Ms.
Trollinger says. "The scripture says 'a little child will lead them.' "
'Good News Club'
At Orlando's Englewood Elementary School, about 50 children meet once a
week after school for a "Good News Club," sponsored by the Warrenton,
Mo.-based Child Evangelism Fellowship. Good News Clubs have
proliferated since a 2001 Supreme Court ruling, citing the right of
free speech, allowed a club in New York to meet, after hours, in a
public school. There are about 5,000 Good News Clubs nationwide, 1,500
of which meet at public schools.
Myron Tschetter, who oversees Good News Clubs nationally, says the
clubs don't have a political affiliation. But if kids ask questions on
issues such as abortion and homosexuality, they're given answers from
the Bible, he says. "We teach the children: 'This is what's right. This
is what God says.' " The goal is that when they grow up and need to
make choices on these issues, "the scriptures will guide them."
Mr. Lynn, of American United for Separation of Church and State,
contends the clubs have "an agenda that combines political and
religious doctrine," and says they could create "future voters and
leaders" who will work for laws opposing abortion and same-gender
marriages, and allowing placement of religious symbols on public
property.
On a recent day, at the Good News Club that meets at Englewood
Elementary, children pledged allegiance to the U.S. flag and then to
the Bible.
Abner, a 10-year-old, said he enjoys the club. "I like having it in
school, that's for sure. It saves the ride to church." He's trying to
convince a friend to come to the club, too. "I keep hearing that kids
are the future of the earth," he said.
.

User: "STOP_George"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	24 Jan 2005 12:28:49 PM

Steven L. wrote:

STOP_George wrote:

Yes. Keep on believing that Saddam was directly involved in 9/11

Saddam was related to 9-11 in EXACTLY the same way that Hitler was
related to the Pearl Harbor sneak attack. Same evil, same hatred of

the

democratic West, same war.

Hitler and Stalin were able to form an alliance because they despised
democracy even more than they despised each other. That alliance

caught

the naive, like yourself, completely off guard. But not me. As far

I'm concerned, it's never outside the realm of possibility that
America-haters of different political persuasions can form alliances
with each other.

keep on watching that very objective and highly informative

medium that is called U.S. network T.V.

What do you depend on for "objective" information? Al-Jazeera?

--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
"it's never outside the realm of possibility"

That's your justification for 100,000+ Iraqi civillians and 1300+
American soldiers dead?
You might as well ask King George to bomb the entire world now, because
anti-Americanism is growing like wildfire.

"What do you depend on for "objective" information? Al-Jazeera?"

Any media that investigates the truth in a complete and exhaustive way
and is not afraid to ask tough thorough questions in a persistant
manner.
Unfortunately, NONE of the mainstream news in America can do this. The
4th estate in the U.S. is dead and, along with it, a once proud nation
adhering to the principles of democracy.
.

User: "George"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	24 Jan 2005 01:06:44 PM

"STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106591329.301973.11320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Steven L. wrote:

STOP_George wrote:

Yes. Keep on believing that Saddam was directly involved in 9/11

Saddam was related to 9-11 in EXACTLY the same way that Hitler was
related to the Pearl Harbor sneak attack. Same evil, same hatred of

the

democratic West, same war.

Hitler and Stalin were able to form an alliance because they despised

democracy even more than they despised each other. That alliance

caught

the naive, like yourself, completely off guard. But not me. As far

I'm concerned, it's never outside the realm of possibility that
America-haters of different political persuasions can form alliances
with each other.

keep on watching that very objective and highly informative

medium that is called U.S. network T.V.

What do you depend on for "objective" information? Al-Jazeera?

--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

"it's never outside the realm of possibility"

That's your justification for 100,000+ Iraqi civillians and 1300+
American soldiers dead?

BZZZZZT!
LIE DETECTED.
The total casualty count has not exceeded 20,000, according to
Iraqbodycount.com
YOU ARE A FUCKING LIAR! Liberals ALWAYS lie to justify their treason.
Potestas Democraticorum delenda est
Uncle Dave says: "The only way to talk to liberals is with a 2x4, hunting
dog, and a shotgun."
.

User: "Thom"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	25 Jan 2005 03:44:00 AM

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:06:44 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106591329.301973.11320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Steven L. wrote:

STOP_George wrote:

Yes. Keep on believing that Saddam was directly involved in 9/11

Saddam was related to 9-11 in EXACTLY the same way that Hitler was
related to the Pearl Harbor sneak attack. Same evil, same hatred of

the

democratic West, same war.

Hitler and Stalin were able to form an alliance because they despised

democracy even more than they despised each other. That alliance

caught

the naive, like yourself, completely off guard. But not me. As far

I'm concerned, it's never outside the realm of possibility that
America-haters of different political persuasions can form alliances
with each other.

keep on watching that very objective and highly informative

medium that is called U.S. network T.V.

What do you depend on for "objective" information? Al-Jazeera?

--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

"it's never outside the realm of possibility"

That's your justification for 100,000+ Iraqi civillians and 1300+
American soldiers dead?

BZZZZZT!

LIE DETECTED.

The total casualty count has not exceeded 20,000, according to
Iraqbodycount.com

and they were over there counting when??? Just who are these people
or is it some young republican teenagers with a website?? Amazed you
think 20,000 is OK though.

YOU ARE A FUCKING LIAR! Liberals ALWAYS lie to justify their treason.

speaking of lies found those WMD yet?
THOM

Potestas Democraticorum delenda est

Uncle Dave says: "The only way to talk to liberals is with a 2x4, hunting
dog, and a shotgun."

User: "Thom"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	25 Jan 2005 03:43:59 AM

On 24 Jan 2005 10:28:49 -0800, "STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Steven L. wrote:

STOP_George wrote:

Yes. Keep on believing that Saddam was directly involved in 9/11

Saddam was related to 9-11 in EXACTLY the same way that Hitler was
related to the Pearl Harbor sneak attack. Same evil, same hatred of

the

democratic West, same war.

Hitler and Stalin were able to form an alliance because they despised

democracy even more than they despised each other. That alliance

caught

the naive, like yourself, completely off guard. But not me. As far

I'm concerned, it's never outside the realm of possibility that
America-haters of different political persuasions can form alliances
with each other.

keep on watching that very objective and highly informative

medium that is called U.S. network T.V.

What do you depend on for "objective" information? Al-Jazeera?

--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

"it's never outside the realm of possibility"

That's your justification for 100,000+ Iraqi civillians and 1300+
American soldiers dead?

but but! It doesn't matter if the whole population is dead as long as
they are free! NOT!
THOM

You might as well ask King George to bomb the entire world now, because
anti-Americanism is growing like wildfire.

"What do you depend on for "objective" information? Al-Jazeera?"

Any media that investigates the truth in a complete and exhaustive way
and is not afraid to ask tough thorough questions in a persistant
manner.

Unfortunately, NONE of the mainstream news in America can do this. The
4th estate in the U.S. is dead and, along with it, a once proud nation
adhering to the principles of democracy.

User: "Thom"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	22 Jan 2005 02:32:26 AM

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:49:07 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106108017.194776.85570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

<<<< Newsclip Autopsy >>>> FOCUS: VOTERGATE

TRUTH REPORTED: CNN Finally Gets it Right!!!

http://newsclipautopsy.blogspot.com/2005/01/truth-reported-cnn-finally-gets-it.html

Eat ***** and die, liberal-*****.

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us liberals
in 1776???
THOM

Uncle Dave says: "The only way to talk to liberals is with a 2x4, hunting
dog, and a shotgun."

User: "George"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	21 Jan 2005 03:23:09 PM

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f20f5c.2708984@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:49:07 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106108017.194776.85570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

<<<< Newsclip Autopsy >>>> FOCUS: VOTERGATE

TRUTH REPORTED: CNN Finally Gets it Right!!!

http://newsclipautopsy.blogspot.com/2005/01/truth-reported-cnn-finally-gets

-it.html

Eat ***** and die, liberal-*****.

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us liberals
in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.
I guess that they don't teach you any US history in Aussie-land.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	24 Jan 2005 12:07:53 AM

George wrote:

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f20f5c.2708984@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:49:07 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106108017.194776.85570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

<<<< Newsclip Autopsy >>>> FOCUS: VOTERGATE

TRUTH REPORTED: CNN Finally Gets it Right!!!

http://newsclipautopsy.blogspot.com/2005/01/truth-reported-cnn-finally-gets
-it.html

Eat ***** and die, liberal-*****.

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us

liberals

in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.

You misspelled "conservative".

I guess that they don't teach you any US history in Aussie-land.

Well they apparently taught me a whole lot more than they taught you.
Try taking a college level course in American history sometime instead
of whatever pap they taught you in grade school.
.

User: "Al Klein"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	24 Jan 2005 01:31:05 AM

On 23 Jan 2005 22:07:53 -0800,

said in
alt.atheism:

George wrote:

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.

You misspelled "conservative".

I guess that they don't teach you any US history in Aussie-land.

Well they apparently taught me a whole lot more than they taught you.
Try taking a college level course in American history sometime instead
of whatever pap they taught you in grade school.

I think you misspelled "trade school".
--
"Christianity has already had the chance to govern
the world according to its own ethical standards.
It was called the "Dark Ages".
- Bill, The Avender
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.

User: "Thom"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	24 Jan 2005 02:16:52 PM

On 23 Jan 2005 22:07:53 -0800,

wrote:

George wrote:

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f20f5c.2708984@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:49:07 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106108017.194776.85570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

<<<< Newsclip Autopsy >>>> FOCUS: VOTERGATE

TRUTH REPORTED: CNN Finally Gets it Right!!!

http://newsclipautopsy.blogspot.com/2005/01/truth-reported-cnn-finally-gets
-it.html

Eat ***** and die, liberal-*****.

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us

liberals

in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.

You misspelled "conservative".

I guess that they don't teach you any US history in Aussie-land.

Well they apparently taught me a whole lot more than they taught you.
Try taking a college level course in American history sometime

I did and got a degree in history, real history of course not the
version by the Rev Billy Bob or the one the PUGS like to spin.

instead
of whatever pap they taught you in grade school.

I went to a far right wing grammer school and have the scared knuckles
to prove it.
THOM

User: "Courageous"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	24 Jan 2005 09:41:18 AM

I went to a far right wing grammer school and have the scared knuckles
to prove it.

Grammar. With an 'a'.
C//
.

User: "Thom"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	25 Jan 2005 03:44:02 AM

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:41:18 -0800, Courageous <dontwant@spam.com>
wrote:

I went to a far right wing grammer school and have the scared knuckles
to prove it.

Grammar. With an 'a'.

see, too much time dodging the yard stick and not enough on spelling.
THOM

C//

User: ""
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	24 Jan 2005 08:06:27 AM

Thom wrote:

On 23 Jan 2005 22:07:53 -0800,

wrote:

George wrote:

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f20f5c.2708984@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:49:07 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106108017.194776.85570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

<<<< Newsclip Autopsy >>>> FOCUS: VOTERGATE

TRUTH REPORTED: CNN Finally Gets it Right!!!

http://newsclipautopsy.blogspot.com/2005/01/truth-reported-cnn-finally-gets

-it.html

Eat ***** and die, liberal-*****.

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us

liberals

in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.

You misspelled "conservative".

I guess that they don't teach you any US history in Aussie-land.

Well they apparently taught me a whole lot more than they taught

you.

Try taking a college level course in American history sometime

I did and got a degree in history, real history of course not the
version by the Rev Billy Bob or the one the PUGS like to spin.

My degree is in Anthropology with a minor in History. I'm never
endingly
surprised about the lack of knowledge of both world and American
history
shown by the far right.

instead
of whatever pap they taught you in grade school.

I went to a far right wing grammer school and have the scared

knuckles

to prove it.

I avoided that experience and I'm ever so grateful for it.
.

User: "Thom"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	25 Jan 2005 03:44:02 AM

On 24 Jan 2005 06:06:27 -0800,

wrote:

Thom wrote:

On 23 Jan 2005 22:07:53 -0800,

wrote:

George wrote:

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f20f5c.2708984@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:49:07 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106108017.194776.85570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

<<<< Newsclip Autopsy >>>> FOCUS: VOTERGATE

TRUTH REPORTED: CNN Finally Gets it Right!!!

http://newsclipautopsy.blogspot.com/2005/01/truth-reported-cnn-finally-gets

-it.html

Eat ***** and die, liberal-*****.

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us

liberals

in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.

You misspelled "conservative".

I guess that they don't teach you any US history in Aussie-land.

Well they apparently taught me a whole lot more than they taught

you.

Try taking a college level course in American history sometime

I did and got a degree in history, real history of course not the
version by the Rev Billy Bob or the one the PUGS like to spin.

My degree is in Anthropology with a minor in History. I'm never
endingly
surprised about the lack of knowledge of both world and American
history
shown by the far right.

I'm not, when they're constantly trying to change it to suit their
situation its hard to keep up.
THOM

instead
of whatever pap they taught you in grade school.

I went to a far right wing grammer school and have the scared

knuckles

to prove it.

I avoided that experience and I'm ever so grateful for it.

User: "Al Klein"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	22 Jan 2005 12:03:50 AM

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:23:09 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> said in alt.atheism:

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us liberals
in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.
I guess that they don't teach you any US history in Aussie-land.

They did here in the US, and it was the colonials who were the
liberals. Conservatives (from "conserve") want to keep things as they
are, in that case, fealty to the monarchy.
Now go back to school and actually learn something.
--
"I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be under-
stood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can
comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of
humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
- 1954 or 1955; quoted in Dukas and Hoffman _Albert Einstein the Human Side_, p. 39
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.

User: "George"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	23 Jan 2005 12:20:20 PM

"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:t2r3v05iei0nmhq97o4kroh200baa44uce@4ax.com...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:23:09 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> said in alt.atheism:

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us liberals
in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.

I guess that they don't teach you any US history in Aussie-land.

They did here in the US,

Did you skip classes that day to play videogames?

and it was the colonials who were the
liberals. Conservatives (from "conserve") want to keep things as they
are, in that case, fealty to the monarchy.

Do you know WHO the "Founders" were? The ones who wrote the Declaration of
Independence? The ones who led the Revolution? The ones who organized the
newly founded country they called the United States of America?
They were the very, very RICH in the colonies.
They wore the finest clothes available. They had servants and the finest
houses in the colonies. They imported the finest furnishing and goods from
England, at great cost, to show off their wealth.
They were the bankers and the ship owners. [John Hancock was a SHIPPING
COMPANY OWNER, not an insurance company in 1773.]
They were the lawyers.
The General of the Continental Army (George Washington) was the RICHEST man
in Virginia.
They were the wealthy landowners. They owned thousands of acres of
plantations and huge forest tracts.
The southerners were even SLAVEHOLDERS. Jefferson, the author of the
Declaration of Independence WAS A SLAVE OWNER.
And you call these men LIBERALS?
You are a fucking *MORON*!
They only reason they led Revolution is because their financial empires were
being destroyed piecemeal by the British Parliament and King George's
government. The taxes were ruining them. Try to evade those taxes and they
confiscated your wealth -- all of it. The King and Parliament were
impoverishing these rich colonials with every new money-making scheme they
came up with. What the hell do you think the Boston Tea Party was all
about? TAXES!!
Yes. They did it for the MONEY -- their money!
And when the British tried to enforce their version of GUN CONTROL (by
trying to seize the munitions stored at Lexington and then Concord) in April
1775, it was brought home to these SUPER RICH men that the King intended to
make it impossible for them to resist their coming impoverishment in any
way, and that is when they met in Philadelphia as "Congress." For over a
year, they waffled, and they wavered; they sent representatives to talk to
their supporters in Parliament to try influence events in their favor; they
even professes continued loyalty to the King if ONLY he'd call of the tax
collectors. And it all failed leaving them a last resort: Revolution.
"True, the English repealed the stamp tax when Americans defied them, but
they were back two years later with a wide-ranging set of taxes on paint,
lead, tea, and other American Imports. With these came a new customs
organization, back by vice admiralty courts in which Americas were tried by
royally appointed judges without a jury. Worse, the judges and the customs
men were often little more than racketeers, and Americans who refused to pay
them off -- such as John Hancock of Boston and John Laurens of South
Carolina -- had their ships seized and their freedom threatened."
["1776: Year of Illusions", by Thomas Fleming, pp. 29-30, Castle Books,
Edison, New Jersey, 1996 (copyright 1975 by Thomas Fleming), ISBN
0-7858-0724-1]
There were no "liberals" as we understand them to be today in the Colonies.
The Jeffersonian liberal movement didn't begin in earnest until after the
Revolution was won. And in any event, YOU liberals are not Jefferson's
disciples. YOUR model of "liberalism" comes Marx and Lenin as "Socialism."
The "Progressive Movement" of the late 19th Century was hijacked by you
"Socialists" in the 20th.

Now go back to school and actually learn something.

You are another example of OUTCOME based NEA-mandated education.
Ignorant about your own history.
Ignorant about your own political antecedents.
Ignorant -- and arrogant -- about EVERYTHING.
.

User: "Mark \The DunderHead"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	29 Jan 2005 02:40:29 AM

"George" <spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote in message
news:ct0pt5$ik6$0@pita.alt.net...

"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:t2r3v05iei0nmhq97o4kroh200baa44uce@4ax.com...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:23:09 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> said in alt.atheism:

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us liberals
in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.

I guess that they don't teach you any US history in Aussie-land.

They did here in the US,

Did you skip classes that day to play videogames?

and it was the colonials who were the
liberals. Conservatives (from "conserve") want to keep things as they
are, in that case, fealty to the monarchy.

What the hell do you think the Boston Tea Party was all
about? TAXES!!

Now here's one aspect of American history that I always get
a kick out of. All that ruckus back then was to stop being
taxed right in to poverty by the Brits. Now over 200 years
later, what are we doing? We're still being taxed right in
to poverty. The only difference is that now we're doing it to
OURSELVES! Then when the tax burden is occasionally
lessened, it's for the WRONG group of tax payers! <BG>
I pretty much agree with most of Bush's doings, but all
the drunken sailors on the planet *combined* couldn't
blow money the way G.W. does. Maybe his Pappy
never gave him that, "Value of a dollar" talk that most
fathers have with their kids. That was my one and only
reason I voted for Kerry. As for the rest of the issues,
I honestly don't think Kerry could have done anything
to make a tangible improvement over what Bush is
already doing.
Peace,
Mark

Yes. They did it for the MONEY -- their money!

And when the British tried to enforce their version of GUN CONTROL (by
trying to seize the munitions stored at Lexington and then Concord) in April
1775, it was brought home to these SUPER RICH men that the King intended to
make it impossible for them to resist their coming impoverishment in any
way, and that is when they met in Philadelphia as "Congress." For over a
year, they waffled, and they wavered; they sent representatives to talk to
their supporters in Parliament to try influence events in their favor; they
even professes continued loyalty to the King if ONLY he'd call of the tax
collectors. And it all failed leaving them a last resort: Revolution.

"True, the English repealed the stamp tax when Americans defied them, but
they were back two years later with a wide-ranging set of taxes on paint,
lead, tea, and other American Imports. With these came a new customs
organization, back by vice admiralty courts in which Americas were tried by
royally appointed judges without a jury. Worse, the judges and the customs
men were often little more than racketeers, and Americans who refused to pay
them off -- such as John Hancock of Boston and John Laurens of South
Carolina -- had their ships seized and their freedom threatened."

["1776: Year of Illusions", by Thomas Fleming, pp. 29-30, Castle Books,
Edison, New Jersey, 1996 (copyright 1975 by Thomas Fleming), ISBN
0-7858-0724-1]

There were no "liberals" as we understand them to be today in the Colonies.
The Jeffersonian liberal movement didn't begin in earnest until after the
Revolution was won. And in any event, YOU liberals are not Jefferson's
disciples. YOUR model of "liberalism" comes Marx and Lenin as "Socialism."
The "Progressive Movement" of the late 19th Century was hijacked by you
"Socialists" in the 20th.

Now go back to school and actually learn something.

You are another example of OUTCOME based NEA-mandated education.

Ignorant about your own history.

Ignorant about your own political antecedents.

Ignorant -- and arrogant -- about EVERYTHING.

User: "Al Klein"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	29 Jan 2005 11:11:44 AM

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:40:29 -0500, "Mark $The DunderHead$"
<none@none3.org> said in alt.atheism:

I pretty much agree with most of Bush's doings, but all
the drunken sailors on the planet *combined* couldn't
blow money the way G.W. does.

But it's the DEMOCRATS who are the "tax and spend liberals", right?
The Repugs are the "tax (the poor) and spend conservatives".

Maybe his Pappy
never gave him that, "Value of a dollar" talk that most
fathers have with their kids.

He did, with one modification. "... value of YOUR dollar ..." OUR
dollars have no value - till they belong to HIM (or his cronies).
Then, taxation = illegal confiscation.
--
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid
consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and
ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who
works on the basis of reward and punishment. "
- Letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.

User: "Al Klein"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	23 Jan 2005 02:49:39 PM

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:20:20 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> said in alt.atheism:

"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:t2r3v05iei0nmhq97o4kroh200baa44uce@4ax.com...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:23:09 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> said in alt.atheism:

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us liberals
in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.
I guess that they don't teach you any US history in Aussie-land.

They did here in the US,

Did you skip classes that day to play videogames?

They didn't have video games when I was in school. Just classes in
which students learned.

and it was the colonials who were the
liberals. Conservatives (from "conserve") want to keep things as they
are, in that case, fealty to the monarchy.

Yes, the ones who didn't want to conserve the monarchy in the New
World - the liberals.

They were the very, very RICH in the colonies.

Even though most of the wealthy today are conservatives, monetary
wealth isn't the criterion for determining whether one is conservative
or liberal.

They wore the finest clothes available. They had servants and the finest
houses in the colonies. They imported the finest furnishing and goods from
England, at great cost, to show off their wealth.

And they DIDN'T want to conserve the status quo. That means that they
WEREN'T conservatives.
<snip irrelevant assertions>

Now go back to school and actually learn something.

You are another example of OUTCOME based NEA-mandated education.

Sorry, I graduated LONG before that concept existed. Back when
students actually learned things.
--
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he
unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."
-- Bertrand Russell.
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.

User: "Thom"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	24 Jan 2005 06:10:57 AM

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:20:20 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:t2r3v05iei0nmhq97o4kroh200baa44uce@4ax.com...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:23:09 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> said in alt.atheism:

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us liberals
in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.

I guess that they don't teach you any US history in Aussie-land.

They did here in the US,

Did you skip classes that day to play videogames?

and it was the colonials who were the
liberals. Conservatives (from "conserve") want to keep things as they
are, in that case, fealty to the monarchy.

sorry but no. Most were land owners but many were not. The rep from
my home state of New Jersey, Johnathan Weitherspoon and was far from
rich.
Hamilton and Madison didn't have servants nor did Franklin who had a
small printing business (He published the Almanac)

They wore the finest clothes available. They had servants and the finest
houses in the colonies. They imported the finest furnishing and goods from
England, at great cost, to show off their wealth.

They were the bankers and the ship owners. [John Hancock was a SHIPPING
COMPANY OWNER, not an insurance company in 1773.]

They were the lawyers.

The General of the Continental Army (George Washington) was the RICHEST man
in Virginia.

thats true

They were the wealthy landowners. They owned thousands of acres of
plantations and huge forest tracts.

as were the people who opposed them

The southerners were even SLAVEHOLDERS. Jefferson, the author of the
Declaration of Independence WAS A SLAVE OWNER.

BUT be fair, Jefferson wrote into the constitution the end of slavary
but southern conservitives threaten to torpedo the new nation if he
kept it in. He wrote later that he greatly regretted that move and
the issue would have to be left to another generation.

And you call these men LIBERALS?

Liberal has nothing to do with wealth. It has to do with ideals. It
has to do with the concept that all men are created equal and we have
the right to have rights. We have the right to live fairly in a
community and not have religious idiots trying to tell us how to love
and live. We have the right to own guns and to be a part of the
government that is supposed to be representing us not ruling us.

You are a fucking *MORON*!

They only reason they led Revolution is because their financial empires were
being destroyed piecemeal by the British Parliament and King George's
government. The taxes were ruining them.

What *****. # companies (the largest being the Tea company)
basically ran all commerce in the colonies. Jefferson wrote that the
purpose of the American revolutionw as to get big business, big
government and big religion off our backs and by that he meant
organized religion (he was a Deist), British Capitalism and the
British government. he also lamented in 1800 than home grown versions
were trying to climb back on.

Try to evade those taxes and they
confiscated your wealth -- all of it. The King and Parliament were
impoverishing these rich colonials with every new money-making scheme they
came up with. What the hell do you think the Boston Tea Party was all
about? TAXES!!

Yes. They did it for the MONEY -- their money!

And when the British tried to enforce their version of GUN CONTROL (by
trying to seize the munitions stored at Lexington and then Concord) in April
1775, it was brought home to these SUPER RICH men that the King intended to
make it impossible for them to resist their coming impoverishment in any
way, and that is when they met in Philadelphia as "Congress."

So why were there no rich men fighting the british at Lexington and
Concord or sniping at the red coats all the way back home?

For over a
year, they waffled, and they wavered; they sent representatives to talk to
their supporters in Parliament to try influence events in their favor; they
even professes continued loyalty to the King if ONLY he'd call of the tax
collectors. And it all failed leaving them a last resort: Revolution.

"True, the English repealed the stamp tax when Americans defied them, but
they were back two years later with a wide-ranging set of taxes on paint,
lead, tea, and other American Imports. With these came a new customs
organization, back by vice admiralty courts in which Americas were tried by
royally appointed judges without a jury. Worse, the judges and the customs
men were often little more than racketeers, and Americans who refused to pay
them off -- such as John Hancock of Boston and John Laurens of South
Carolina -- had their ships seized and their freedom threatened."

["1776: Year of Illusions", by Thomas Fleming, pp. 29-30, Castle Books,
Edison, New Jersey, 1996 (copyright 1975 by Thomas Fleming), ISBN
0-7858-0724-1]

There were no "liberals" as we understand them to be today in the Colonies.
The Jeffersonian liberal movement didn't begin in earnest until after the
Revolution was won. And in any event, YOU liberals are not Jefferson's
disciples.

We are his decendants who still want to get rid of crooked crony
capitalism, organized religion and oppressive government that would
take away our guns, our right not to worship your silly gods and have
economic freedom and equality

YOUR model of "liberalism" comes Marx and Lenin as "Socialism."
The "Progressive Movement" of the late 19th Century was hijacked by you
"Socialists" in the 20th.

The founding fathers were leftists, socialist of the day if you like
who put forth the proposition that your side is totally out of it and
useless.
The revolution is a living one and still goes one. The fight against
greed and averous is a day to day battle.

Now go back to school and actually learn something.

I suggest you go to a school that isn't so goose stepping right wing
and learn something yourself.

You are another example of OUTCOME based NEA-mandated education.

and your from Bible school it seems.

Ignorant about your own history.

and you trying to change it
THOM

Ignorant about your own political antecedents.

Ignorant -- and arrogant -- about EVERYTHING.

User: "Thom"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	22 Jan 2005 04:48:48 PM

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:23:09 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f20f5c.2708984@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:49:07 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106108017.194776.85570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

<<<< Newsclip Autopsy >>>> FOCUS: VOTERGATE

TRUTH REPORTED: CNN Finally Gets it Right!!!

http://newsclipautopsy.blogspot.com/2005/01/truth-reported-cnn-finally-gets

-it.html

Eat ***** and die, liberal-*****.

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us liberals
in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.

And in front and behind kicking his ***** at Barndywine. The Likes of
Jefferson were liberals. The Bush family fought against America and
have been selling it out ever since.

I guess that they don't teach you any US history in Aussie-land.

I guess it doesn't matter since I got my history degree in Colorado.
THOM

User: "George"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	23 Jan 2005 12:21:29 PM

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f2d365.3513781@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:23:09 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f20f5c.2708984@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:49:07 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106108017.194776.85570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

<<<< Newsclip Autopsy >>>> FOCUS: VOTERGATE

TRUTH REPORTED: CNN Finally Gets it Right!!!

http://newsclipautopsy.blogspot.com/2005/01/truth-reported-cnn-finally-get

-it.html

Eat ***** and die, liberal-*****.

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us liberals
in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.

And in front and behind kicking his ***** at Barndywine. The Likes of
Jefferson were liberals.

Jeffersonian liberals are NOT today's Socialists.
Today's liberals come not from Jefferson, but from Marx and Lenin.
.

User: "Thom"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	24 Jan 2005 06:16:36 AM

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:21:29 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f2d365.3513781@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:23:09 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f20f5c.2708984@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:49:07 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106108017.194776.85570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

<<<< Newsclip Autopsy >>>> FOCUS: VOTERGATE

TRUTH REPORTED: CNN Finally Gets it Right!!!

http://newsclipautopsy.blogspot.com/2005/01/truth-reported-cnn-finally-get

-it.html

Eat ***** and die, liberal-*****.

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us liberals
in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.

And in front and behind kicking his ***** at Barndywine. The Likes of
Jefferson were liberals.

Jeffersonian liberals are NOT today's Socialists.

but you guys are the same as the British oppressors of 1776. Liberals
are then and are now for personal freedom and a totally equal society.
We form governments to manage our affairs not crooked corporations to
steal from us like Haliburton does.

Today's liberals come not from Jefferson, but from Marx and Lenin.

Even if that was true so what? Marx was far more a moral man than
Adam Smith and Lenin was a German spy sent to Russia to knock them out
of the war. He crushed the BOLs government of Alender Korenski, took
Russia out of WW2 and started a better state only to be murdered by
Stalin who went mad.
Go back and look for reds under your bed nut case. The USSR is gone,
live with it. The enemy is now yourself!
By the way found those pesky WMD yet?
THOM

User: "George"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	24 Jan 2005 04:56:21 AM

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f4e5da.8702577@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:21:29 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f2d365.3513781@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:23:09 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"Thom" <tomlyons@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:41f20f5c.2708984@news.melbpc.org.au...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:49:07 -0600, "George"
<spamfree@nospam.forme.tv> wrote:

"STOP_George" <skiingkow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106108017.194776.85570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

<<<< Newsclip Autopsy >>>> FOCUS: VOTERGATE

TRUTH REPORTED: CNN Finally Gets it Right!!!

http://newsclipautopsy.blogspot.com/2005/01/truth-reported-cnn-finally-ge

-it.html

Eat ***** and die, liberal-*****.

didn't Cornwallis say something like that while fighting us liberals
in 1776???

The liberals were on the side of Cornwallis, silly.

And in front and behind kicking his ***** at Barndywine. The Likes of
Jefferson were liberals.

Jeffersonian liberals are NOT today's Socialists.

but you guys are the same as the British oppressors of 1776. Liberals
are then and are now for personal freedom and a totally equal society.

Silly boy!
Liberals are for a larger and more intrusive State, not for personal
freedom. Liberals love to regulate everything.

We form governments to manage our affairs not crooked corporations to
steal from us like Haliburton does.

We want to REMOVE government from our lives, not make it more intrusive.

Today's liberals come not from Jefferson, but from Marx and Lenin.

I rest my case.
Thanks for proving my point that you are NOT Jeffersonian liberals but
marxists and communists.
.

User: "Otaku_faith"
Title: Re: "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!"	24 Jan 2005 12:47:47 PM