| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fred Stone" |
| Date: |
23 Sep 2005 08:26:46 AM |
| Object: |
Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In Herat,
the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the best methods
of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program reports that
Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in 1999-twice as much as
in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces three times more opium
than the rest of the world put together. Ninety-six percent of it is
cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest
heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest. The
Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments crossing into
Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the only banking system
in the country-offering farmers credit in advance of their poppy crop.
This criminalized economy has weakened states throughout the region...
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
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| User: "Clockmeister" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 03:03:55 AM |
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"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1127482006.217819a457766c010703fc9df4efbfd8@teranews...
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In Herat,
the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the best methods
of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program reports that
Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in 1999-twice as much as
in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces three times more opium
than the rest of the world put together. Ninety-six percent of it is
cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest
heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest.
The Taliban made the cultivation of Opium illegal with severe penalties put
in place. Since the invasion Opium production has gone into overdrive since
no-one is in control.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 07:14:22 AM |
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"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:43350664@duster.adelaide.on.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1127482006.217819a457766c010703fc9df4efbfd8@teranews...
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In
Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the
best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program
reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in
1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces
three times more opium than the rest of the world put together.
Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas,
making the Taliban the largest heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest.
The Taliban made the cultivation of Opium illegal with severe
penalties put in place.
Yeah, right, they eliminated their main source of income.
Suuuuuure they did.
Since the invasion Opium production has gone
into overdrive since no-one is in control.
The current Afghan government also made the cultivation of opium
illegal, and their control is solidifying.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
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| User: "Clockmeister" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 06:10:59 PM |
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"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1127564062.fe48fc139518ffc202e61c97da83f2f9@teranews...
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:43350664@duster.adelaide.on.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1127482006.217819a457766c010703fc9df4efbfd8@teranews...
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In
Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the
best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program
reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in
1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces
three times more opium than the rest of the world put together.
Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas,
making the Taliban the largest heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest.
The Taliban made the cultivation of Opium illegal with severe
penalties put in place.
Yeah, right, they eliminated their main source of income.
Suuuuuure they did.
Ofcourse they did, stupid, it was a well established fact and about the only
positive thing about the Taliban. Now however, it's a free for all. This
isn't speculation, it's fact.
Since the invasion Opium production has gone
into overdrive since no-one is in control.
The current Afghan government also made the cultivation of opium
illegal, and their control is solidifying.
They don't have the resources to control a damn thing over there since it's
once again the warlords who are in control.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 06:56:21 PM |
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"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:4335daf9$1@duster.adelaide.on.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1127564062.fe48fc139518ffc202e61c97da83f2f9@teranews...
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:43350664@duster.adelaide.on.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1127482006.217819a457766c010703fc9df4efbfd8@teranews...
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In
Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the
best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program
reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in
1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan now
produces three times more opium than the rest of the world put
together. Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in
Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest heroin
producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest.
The Taliban made the cultivation of Opium illegal with severe
penalties put in place.
Yeah, right, they eliminated their main source of income.
Suuuuuure they did.
Ofcourse they did, stupid, it was a well established fact and about
the only positive thing about the Taliban. Now however, it's a free
for all. This isn't speculation, it's fact.
You'll believe anything, won't you?
Since the invasion Opium production has gone
into overdrive since no-one is in control.
The current Afghan government also made the cultivation of opium
illegal, and their control is solidifying.
They don't have the resources to control a damn thing over there since
it's once again the warlords who are in control.
Proving only that you don't have a clue.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
23 Sep 2005 04:22:08 PM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In Herat,
the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the best methods
of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program reports that
Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in 1999-twice as much as
in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces three times more opium
than the rest of the world put together. Ninety-six percent of it is
cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest
heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest. The
Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments crossing into
Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the only banking system
in the country-offering farmers credit in advance of their poppy crop.
This criminalized economy has weakened states throughout the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
23 Sep 2005 04:43:05 PM |
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Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
news:ebr8j1hme6t5arupsqocnleke30dskprpm@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In
Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the
best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program
reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in
1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces
three times more opium than the rest of the world put together.
Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas,
making the Taliban the largest heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest. The
Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments crossing
into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the only banking
system in the country-offering farmers credit in advance of their
poppy crop. This criminalized economy has weakened states throughout
the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
Yes, they did. It's no surprise that they would take advantage of the
situation that was spawned by the Taliban. Now, after the recent
successful elections, it appears that they see the advantage of
cooperating with the lawful political process and the Kabul government.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
23 Sep 2005 05:04:03 PM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In
Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the
best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program
reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in
1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces
three times more opium than the rest of the world put together.
Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas,
making the Taliban the largest heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest. The
Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments crossing
into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the only banking
system in the country-offering farmers credit in advance of their
poppy crop. This criminalized economy has weakened states throughout
the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
Yes, they did. It's no surprise that they would take advantage of the
situation that was spawned by the Taliban. Now, after the recent
successful elections, it appears that they see the advantage of
cooperating with the lawful political process and the Kabul government.
What advantage?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
23 Sep 2005 07:40:52 PM |
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Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
news:mru8j1h6s3nuq2ard748frt9fm788kplgh@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In
Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the
best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program
reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in
1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan now
produces three times more opium than the rest of the world put
together. Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in
Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest heroin
producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest. The
Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments crossing
into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the only
banking system in the country-offering farmers credit in advance of
their poppy crop. This criminalized economy has weakened states
throughout the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
Yes, they did. It's no surprise that they would take advantage of the
situation that was spawned by the Taliban. Now, after the recent
successful elections, it appears that they see the advantage of
cooperating with the lawful political process and the Kabul
government.
What advantage?
Political power, legitimate business interests, and the big one: not
having Afghan & Coalition troops all over them.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
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| User: "Dr._G" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 09:52:48 AM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In Herat,
the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the best methods
of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program reports that
Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in 1999-twice as much as
in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces three times more opium
than the rest of the world put together. Ninety-six percent of it is
cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest
heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest. The
Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments crossing into
Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the only banking system
in the country-offering farmers credit in advance of their poppy crop.
This criminalized economy has weakened states throughout the region...
The problem would be largely solved if heroin and other drugs were
legalized. The vast majority of the problems blamed on drugs are
actually due to the illegality. Heroin, for example, is not
particularly harmful in itself. But contaminants, impurities, and
uncertainties in dose in street heroin make it quite dangerous. And of
course the spread of HIV and hepatitis virus has nothing to do with the
drug and everything to do with the illegality. Same for the crime
associated with drugs. It's basically the same situation as alcohol
prohibition.
As Nobel laureate economist Milton Friedman remarked:
http://www.druglibrary.org/special/friedman/milton_friedman.htm
"It [drug use] does harm a great many other people, but primarily
because it's prohibited. There are an enormous number of innocent
victims now. You've got the people whose purses are stolen, who are
bashed over the head by people trying to get enough money for their next
fix. You've got the people killed in the random drug wars. You've got
the corruption of the legal establishment. You've got the innocent
victims who are taxpayers who have to pay for more and more prisons, and
more and more prisoners, and more and more police. You've got the rest
of us who don't get decent law enforcement because all the law
enforcement officials are busy trying to do the impossible.
I have estimated statistically that the prohibition of drugs produces,
on the average, ten thousand homicides a year. It's a moral problem that
the government is going around killing ten thousand people...[After drug
legalization] I see America with half the number of prisons, half the
number of prisoners, ten thousand fewer homicides a year.
The proper role of government is exactly what John Stuart Mill said in
the middle of the 19th century in "On Liberty." The proper role of
government is to prevent other people from harming an individual.
Government, he said, never has any right to interfere with an individual
for that individual's own good. The case for prohibiting drugs is
exactly as strong and as weak as the case for prohibiting people from
overeating."
For a good review of this issue, see: _Licit and Illicit Drugs_. EM
Brecher and the Editors of Consumer Reports. Mount Vernon, NY: Consumers
Union.
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/cu/cumenu.htm
--
JA Golczewski, Ph.D.
http://users.rcn.com/jigo/jg.HTM
Updates, free book on health and life-extension
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| User: "Budikka666" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 05:59:00 PM |
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Dr._G wrote:
[palpable ***** flushed]
Clearly you haven't learned your lesson from a few weeks ago (weren't
you posing as Dr Zarkov back then, or is that simply a clone?). Here's
what legal drugs do:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8545351/
(6% of Americans abuse prescription drugs)
Crystal meth is essentially legal, it's so easy to obtain, and what's
that doing to improve children's lives? Read Newsweek week of August
3rd this year to see what good that will do.
Alcohol is legal and that's abused. Cigarettes are legal and those are
abused. And we're all paying the price. How ironic that you're so
blindly convinced that just throwing your hands up in the air and
giving in to a problem is considered to be a fix!
Anyone can quote a bunch of URLs to support their position:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4928a1.htm
http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov.au/pdf/heroin_summary.pdf
http://www.fmr.no/cparticle84005-10285a.html
http://www.jointogether.org/sa/news/summaries/reader/0%2C1854%2C57761...
http://www.drug-statistics.com/heroin.htm
http://www.drugabusestatistics.samhsa.gov/NHSDA/Treatan/treana11.htm
But of course, blind idiots are going to whine like fuckwits: "Ooh but
you're quoting government sources, and it's all a conspiracy".
Congratulations, you've just addicted yourself to the same vacuous
"debate" tactics employed by the theists when they insist that there's
a god. Don't support your argument don't even think about it, and when
you're losing, accuse your opponent of working for Satan!
Let's legalize 'em. Let's turn addicts loose all over the streets and
all over our highways and let's see what kind of a world we've made for
ourselves flushing children down the toilets.
Hey! let's abandon *all* laws, because they're just a government
conspiracy and let's go back to the good old days of living in caves,
every one for themselves, scratching a living off the land. Aahhh!
paradise. Uh-huh.
Budikka
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| User: "Dr._G" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 06:05:48 PM |
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Budikka666 wrote:
Dr._G wrote:
[palpable ***** flushed]
....
But of course, blind idiots are going to whine like fuckwits: "Ooh but
you're quoting government sources, and it's all a conspiracy".
Congratulations, you've just addicted yourself to the same vacuous
"debate" tactics employed by the theists when they insist that there's
a god....
Grow up.
--
JA Golczewski, Ph.D.
http://users.rcn.com/jigo/jg.HTM
Updates, free book on health and life-extension
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
23 Sep 2005 10:38:35 PM |
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On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:22:08 GMT, in alt.atheism , Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> in
<ebr8j1hme6t5arupsqocnleke30dskprpm@4ax.com> wrote:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In Herat,
the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the best methods
of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program reports that
Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in 1999-twice as much as
in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces three times more opium
than the rest of the world put together. Ninety-six percent of it is
cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest
heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest. The
Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments crossing into
Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the only banking system
in the country-offering farmers credit in advance of their poppy crop.
This criminalized economy has weakened states throughout the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
Fred has presented "news" from 1999. The Taliban did crack down on
poppy growing and the amount grown has sky rocketed since the
invasion. So 1999 sources are his best bet.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 06:46:04 AM |
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Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:0fi9j15abp02an55msv2c7e4jk0g4l58da@4ax.com:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:22:08 GMT, in alt.atheism , Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> in
<ebr8j1hme6t5arupsqocnleke30dskprpm@4ax.com> wrote:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In
Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the
best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program
reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in
1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces
three times more opium than the rest of the world put together.
Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas,
making the Taliban the largest heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest. The
Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments crossing
into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the only
banking system in the country-offering farmers credit in advance of
their poppy crop. This criminalized economy has weakened states
throughout the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
Fred has presented "news" from 1999. The Taliban did crack down on
poppy growing and the amount grown has sky rocketed since the
invasion. So 1999 sources are his best bet.
The Taliban was out of power by the end of 2001, two years after this
"news" report. Their "crack down" was rather short lived, wouldn't you
say?
And the myth was that they had eliminated poppy production. Afghanistan
went from being the number one producer in 1999 to being the number one
producer in 2003.
The current Afghan government has also cracked down on poppy growing.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 07:20:03 AM |
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On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:46:04 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127562365.91f913d44d122075c1479677e947d8d5@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:0fi9j15abp02an55msv2c7e4jk0g4l58da@4ax.com:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:22:08 GMT, in alt.atheism , Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> in
<ebr8j1hme6t5arupsqocnleke30dskprpm@4ax.com> wrote:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In
Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the
best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program
reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in
1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces
three times more opium than the rest of the world put together.
Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas,
making the Taliban the largest heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest. The
Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments crossing
into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the only
banking system in the country-offering farmers credit in advance of
their poppy crop. This criminalized economy has weakened states
throughout the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
Fred has presented "news" from 1999. The Taliban did crack down on
poppy growing and the amount grown has sky rocketed since the
invasion. So 1999 sources are his best bet.
The Taliban was out of power by the end of 2001,
When did they really consolidate power?
two years after this
"news" report. Their "crack down" was rather short lived, wouldn't you
say?
Yeah, it was. We cut it off.
And the myth was that they had eliminated poppy production. Afghanistan
went from being the number one producer in 1999 to being the number one
producer in 2003.
So what was production in 2001?
The current Afghan government has also cracked down on poppy growing.
Is it doing anything?
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 07:31:29 AM |
|
|
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:82haj1hesqmjel2prd3ockpja5bchb5mls@4ax.com:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:46:04 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127562365.91f913d44d122075c1479677e947d8d5@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:0fi9j15abp02an55msv2c7e4jk0g4l58da@4ax.com:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:22:08 GMT, in alt.atheism , Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> in
<ebr8j1hme6t5arupsqocnleke30dskprpm@4ax.com> wrote:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In
Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the
best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program
reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in
1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan now
produces three times more opium than the rest of the world put
together. Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in
Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest heroin
producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest.
The Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments
crossing into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the
only banking system in the country-offering farmers credit in
advance of their poppy crop. This criminalized economy has
weakened states throughout the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
Fred has presented "news" from 1999. The Taliban did crack down on
poppy growing and the amount grown has sky rocketed since the
invasion. So 1999 sources are his best bet.
The Taliban was out of power by the end of 2001,
When did they really consolidate power?
What difference does that make?
two years after this
"news" report. Their "crack down" was rather short lived, wouldn't you
say?
Yeah, it was. We cut it off.
Decisively.
And the myth was that they had eliminated poppy production.
Afghanistan went from being the number one producer in 1999 to being
the number one producer in 2003.
So what was production in 2001?
I don't know. Certainly not zero.
The current Afghan government has also cracked down on poppy growing.
Is it doing anything?
Yes.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 06:52:14 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:31:29 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127565090.ec00bb6934038ab4b7483495e819fdd7@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:82haj1hesqmjel2prd3ockpja5bchb5mls@4ax.com:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:46:04 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127562365.91f913d44d122075c1479677e947d8d5@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:0fi9j15abp02an55msv2c7e4jk0g4l58da@4ax.com:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:22:08 GMT, in alt.atheism , Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> in
<ebr8j1hme6t5arupsqocnleke30dskprpm@4ax.com> wrote:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In
Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the
best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program
reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in
1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan now
produces three times more opium than the rest of the world put
together. Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in
Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest heroin
producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest.
The Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments
crossing into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the
only banking system in the country-offering farmers credit in
advance of their poppy crop. This criminalized economy has
weakened states throughout the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
Fred has presented "news" from 1999. The Taliban did crack down on
poppy growing and the amount grown has sky rocketed since the
invasion. So 1999 sources are his best bet.
The Taliban was out of power by the end of 2001,
When did they really consolidate power?
What difference does that make?
Because they can't be particularly responsible for actions before they
took power, can they?
two years after this
"news" report. Their "crack down" was rather short lived, wouldn't you
say?
Yeah, it was. We cut it off.
Decisively.
Except for that pesky heroin thing. Oh, and the Taliban terrorism. And
the warlords. And the discrimination against women.
And the myth was that they had eliminated poppy production.
Afghanistan went from being the number one producer in 1999 to being
the number one producer in 2003.
So what was production in 2001?
I don't know. Certainly not zero.
So you have no idea whether or not they actually cut down production.
You actually had nothing of value to say.
The current Afghan government has also cracked down on poppy growing.
Is it doing anything?
Yes.
I mean besides profiting from the growing.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 07:29:15 PM |
|
|
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:0ipbj1df1jagnho8le2bngna44ldia6p5u@4ax.com:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:31:29 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127565090.ec00bb6934038ab4b7483495e819fdd7@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:82haj1hesqmjel2prd3ockpja5bchb5mls@4ax.com:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:46:04 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127562365.91f913d44d122075c1479677e947d8d5@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote
in news:0fi9j15abp02an55msv2c7e4jk0g4l58da@4ax.com:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:22:08 GMT, in alt.atheism , Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> in
<ebr8j1hme6t5arupsqocnleke30dskprpm@4ax.com> wrote:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In
Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn
the best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control
Program reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of
opium in 1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan
now produces three times more opium than the rest of the world
put together. Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in
Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest heroin
producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest.
The Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments
crossing into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate
the only banking system in the country-offering farmers credit
in advance of their poppy crop. This criminalized economy has
weakened states throughout the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
Fred has presented "news" from 1999. The Taliban did crack down on
poppy growing and the amount grown has sky rocketed since the
invasion. So 1999 sources are his best bet.
The Taliban was out of power by the end of 2001,
When did they really consolidate power?
What difference does that make?
Because they can't be particularly responsible for actions before they
took power, can they?
Were they in power in 1999?
two years after this
"news" report. Their "crack down" was rather short lived, wouldn't
you say?
Yeah, it was. We cut it off.
Decisively.
Except for that pesky heroin thing. Oh, and the Taliban terrorism. And
the warlords. And the discrimination against women.
Except that the "heroin thing" is being addressed, the Taliban is a
shadow of its former self, the "warlords" are joining the political
system and cooperating with the government, and women in Afghanistan
have more real freedom now than they ever had before, including a
guaranteed number of seats in the parliament.
And the myth was that they had eliminated poppy production.
Afghanistan went from being the number one producer in 1999 to being
the number one producer in 2003.
So what was production in 2001?
I don't know. Certainly not zero.
So you have no idea whether or not they actually cut down production.
You actually had nothing of value to say.
So? You got a citation or are you just blowing smoke?
The current Afghan government has also cracked down on poppy
growing.
Is it doing anything?
Yes.
I mean besides profiting from the growing.
Yes.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 08:27:29 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:29:15 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127608156.01f72eacaae8cb7c167d6c10f7f639fc@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:0ipbj1df1jagnho8le2bngna44ldia6p5u@4ax.com:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:31:29 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127565090.ec00bb6934038ab4b7483495e819fdd7@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:82haj1hesqmjel2prd3ockpja5bchb5mls@4ax.com:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:46:04 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127562365.91f913d44d122075c1479677e947d8d5@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote
in news:0fi9j15abp02an55msv2c7e4jk0g4l58da@4ax.com:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:22:08 GMT, in alt.atheism , Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> in
<ebr8j1hme6t5arupsqocnleke30dskprpm@4ax.com> wrote:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In
Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn
the best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control
Program reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of
opium in 1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan
now produces three times more opium than the rest of the world
put together. Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in
Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest heroin
producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest.
The Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments
crossing into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate
the only banking system in the country-offering farmers credit
in advance of their poppy crop. This criminalized economy has
weakened states throughout the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
Fred has presented "news" from 1999. The Taliban did crack down on
poppy growing and the amount grown has sky rocketed since the
invasion. So 1999 sources are his best bet.
The Taliban was out of power by the end of 2001,
When did they really consolidate power?
What difference does that make?
Because they can't be particularly responsible for actions before they
took power, can they?
Were they in power in 1999?
And what difference does that make. We are "in power" in the U.S. and
the U.S. produces a very large amount of illegal drugs. According to
what I just read by 2000 they had cut opium production by 2/3.
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html
two years after this
"news" report. Their "crack down" was rather short lived, wouldn't
you say?
Yeah, it was. We cut it off.
Decisively.
Except for that pesky heroin thing. Oh, and the Taliban terrorism. And
the warlords. And the discrimination against women.
Except that the "heroin thing" is being addressed,
How?
the Taliban is a
shadow of its former self, the "warlords" are joining the political
system and cooperating with the government, and women in Afghanistan
have more real freedom now than they ever had before, including a
guaranteed number of seats in the parliament.
Wow, a guaranteed number of seats. And they still get to wear all
those neat black clothes.
And the myth was that they had eliminated poppy production.
Afghanistan went from being the number one producer in 1999 to being
the number one producer in 2003.
So what was production in 2001?
I don't know. Certainly not zero.
So you have no idea whether or not they actually cut down production.
You actually had nothing of value to say.
So? You got a citation or are you just blowing smoke?
You were the one using 1999 information to make some kind of point.
The current Afghan government has also cracked down on poppy
growing.
Is it doing anything?
Yes.
I mean besides profiting from the growing.
Yes.
Thanks for that insight.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
25 Sep 2005 06:44:34 AM |
|
|
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:a1vbj1dj4puuie9j09r87ai5oigvjgueug@4ax.com:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:29:15 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127608156.01f72eacaae8cb7c167d6c10f7f639fc@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:0ipbj1df1jagnho8le2bngna44ldia6p5u@4ax.com:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:31:29 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127565090.ec00bb6934038ab4b7483495e819fdd7@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote
in news:82haj1hesqmjel2prd3ockpja5bchb5mls@4ax.com:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:46:04 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127562365.91f913d44d122075c1479677e947d8d5@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com>
wrote in news:0fi9j15abp02an55msv2c7e4jk0g4l58da@4ax.com:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:22:08 GMT, in alt.atheism , Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> in
<ebr8j1hme6t5arupsqocnleke30dskprpm@4ax.com> wrote:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon.
In Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers
learn the best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug
Control Program reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric
tons of opium in 1999-twice as much as in the previous year.
Afghanistan now produces three times more opium than the rest
of the world put together. Ninety-six percent of it is
cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the
largest heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war
chest. The Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium
shipments crossing into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug
dealers operate the only banking system in the
country-offering farmers credit in advance of their poppy
crop. This criminalized economy has weakened states throughout
the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
Fred has presented "news" from 1999. The Taliban did crack down
on poppy growing and the amount grown has sky rocketed since the
invasion. So 1999 sources are his best bet.
The Taliban was out of power by the end of 2001,
When did they really consolidate power?
What difference does that make?
Because they can't be particularly responsible for actions before
they took power, can they?
Were they in power in 1999?
And what difference does that make. We are "in power" in the U.S. and
the U.S. produces a very large amount of illegal drugs. According to
what I just read by 2000 they had cut opium production by 2/3.
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html
So they claimed. You'll believe anything.
two years after this
"news" report. Their "crack down" was rather short lived, wouldn't
you say?
Yeah, it was. We cut it off.
Decisively.
Except for that pesky heroin thing. Oh, and the Taliban terrorism.
And the warlords. And the discrimination against women.
Except that the "heroin thing" is being addressed,
How?
Law enforcement, crop replacement incentives, economic development.
the Taliban is a
shadow of its former self, the "warlords" are joining the political
system and cooperating with the government, and women in Afghanistan
have more real freedom now than they ever had before, including a
guaranteed number of seats in the parliament.
Wow, a guaranteed number of seats. And they still get to wear all
those neat black clothes.
Smartass answers prove only that you're a smartass.
And the myth was that they had eliminated poppy production.
Afghanistan went from being the number one producer in 1999 to
being the number one producer in 2003.
So what was production in 2001?
I don't know. Certainly not zero.
So you have no idea whether or not they actually cut down
production. You actually had nothing of value to say.
So? You got a citation or are you just blowing smoke?
You were the one using 1999 information to make some kind of point.
Yes, and you haven't refuted it yet.
The current Afghan government has also cracked down on poppy
growing.
Is it doing anything?
Yes.
I mean besides profiting from the growing.
Yes.
Thanks for that insight.
Any time.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
25 Sep 2005 07:36:49 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:44:34 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127648674.5e5bd954c088627a38332890e30aafad@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:a1vbj1dj4puuie9j09r87ai5oigvjgueug@4ax.com:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:29:15 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127608156.01f72eacaae8cb7c167d6c10f7f639fc@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:0ipbj1df1jagnho8le2bngna44ldia6p5u@4ax.com:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:31:29 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127565090.ec00bb6934038ab4b7483495e819fdd7@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote
in news:82haj1hesqmjel2prd3ockpja5bchb5mls@4ax.com:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:46:04 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127562365.91f913d44d122075c1479677e947d8d5@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com>
wrote in news:0fi9j15abp02an55msv2c7e4jk0g4l58da@4ax.com:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:22:08 GMT, in alt.atheism , Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> in
<ebr8j1hme6t5arupsqocnleke30dskprpm@4ax.com> wrote:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon.
In Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers
learn the best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug
Control Program reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric
tons of opium in 1999-twice as much as in the previous year.
Afghanistan now produces three times more opium than the rest
of the world put together. Ninety-six percent of it is
cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the
largest heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war
chest. The Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium
shipments crossing into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug
dealers operate the only banking system in the
country-offering farmers credit in advance of their poppy
crop. This criminalized economy has weakened states throughout
the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
Fred has presented "news" from 1999. The Taliban did crack down
on poppy growing and the amount grown has sky rocketed since the
invasion. So 1999 sources are his best bet.
The Taliban was out of power by the end of 2001,
When did they really consolidate power?
What difference does that make?
Because they can't be particularly responsible for actions before
they took power, can they?
Were they in power in 1999?
And what difference does that make. We are "in power" in the U.S. and
the U.S. produces a very large amount of illegal drugs. According to
what I just read by 2000 they had cut opium production by 2/3.
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html
So they claimed. You'll believe anything.
You might try to get information before you post. I knew they had cut
down production because I had read about it several places.
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2001%2F02%2F18%2Fwafg18.xml
http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav120501.shtml
two years after this
"news" report. Their "crack down" was rather short lived, wouldn't
you say?
Yeah, it was. We cut it off.
Decisively.
Except for that pesky heroin thing. Oh, and the Taliban terrorism.
And the warlords. And the discrimination against women.
Except that the "heroin thing" is being addressed,
How?
Law enforcement, crop replacement incentives, economic development.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article314986.ece
"In the four years since the fall of the Taliban regime in 2001,
Afghanistan has produced more heroin than ever before."
the Taliban is a
shadow of its former self, the "warlords" are joining the political
system and cooperating with the government, and women in Afghanistan
have more real freedom now than they ever had before, including a
guaranteed number of seats in the parliament.
Wow, a guaranteed number of seats. And they still get to wear all
those neat black clothes.
Smartass answers prove only that you're a smartass.
Try that mirror sometime.
And the myth was that they had eliminated poppy production.
Afghanistan went from being the number one producer in 1999 to
being the number one producer in 2003.
So what was production in 2001?
I don't know. Certainly not zero.
So you have no idea whether or not they actually cut down
production. You actually had nothing of value to say.
So? You got a citation or are you just blowing smoke?
You were the one using 1999 information to make some kind of point.
Yes, and you haven't refuted it yet.
Well, I gave evidence that production declined under the Taliban and
has increased since.
[snip]
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
25 Sep 2005 09:26:16 AM |
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Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:dv5dj1htou1jr8n7a1sn37042tam0u5olj@4ax.com:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:44:34 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127648674.5e5bd954c088627a38332890e30aafad@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:a1vbj1dj4puuie9j09r87ai5oigvjgueug@4ax.com:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:29:15 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127608156.01f72eacaae8cb7c167d6c10f7f639fc@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote
in news:0ipbj1df1jagnho8le2bngna44ldia6p5u@4ax.com:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:31:29 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127565090.ec00bb6934038ab4b7483495e819fdd7@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com>
wrote in news:82haj1hesqmjel2prd3ockpja5bchb5mls@4ax.com:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:46:04 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1127562365.91f913d44d122075c1479677e947d8d5@teranews> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com>
wrote in news:0fi9j15abp02an55msv2c7e4jk0g4l58da@4ax.com:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:22:08 GMT, in alt.atheism , Elroy
Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> in
<ebr8j1hme6t5arupsqocnleke30dskprpm@4ax.com> wrote:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon.
In Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers
learn the best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug
Control Program reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600
metric tons of opium in 1999-twice as much as in the
previous year. Afghanistan now produces three times more
opium than the rest of the world put together. Ninety-six
percent of it is cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas,
making the Taliban the largest heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war
chest. The Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium
shipments crossing into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug
dealers operate the only banking system in the
country-offering farmers credit in advance of their poppy
crop. This criminalized economy has weakened states
throughout the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against
the Taliban?
Fred has presented "news" from 1999. The Taliban did crack
down on poppy growing and the amount grown has sky rocketed
since the invasion. So 1999 sources are his best bet.
The Taliban was out of power by the end of 2001,
When did they really consolidate power?
What difference does that make?
Because they can't be particularly responsible for actions before
they took power, can they?
Were they in power in 1999?
And what difference does that make. We are "in power" in the U.S.
and the U.S. produces a very large amount of illegal drugs.
According to what I just read by 2000 they had cut opium production
by 2/3.
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html
So they claimed. You'll believe anything.
You might try to get information before you post. I knew they had cut
down production because I had read about it several places.
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2001%2F02%
2F18%2Fwafg18.xml
You should read your own citations.
"Officials at the Drug Enforcement Agency believe that the Taliban
thinks it is holding an unbeatable hand. An agent told The Sunday
Telegraph: "In the short-term, while they cut back production and try to
win recognition, they can use their existing stockpiles to take
advantage of higher prices. If they don't get recognition and aid,
they'll resume production. They have not cracked down on traffickers and
there have been no big closures of labs and refineries."
http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav120501.shtml
two years after this
"news" report. Their "crack down" was rather short lived,
wouldn't you say?
Yeah, it was. We cut it off.
Decisively.
Except for that pesky heroin thing. Oh, and the Taliban terrorism.
And the warlords. And the discrimination against women.
Except that the "heroin thing" is being addressed,
How?
Law enforcement, crop replacement incentives, economic development.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article314986.ece
"In the four years since the fall of the Taliban regime in 2001,
Afghanistan has produced more heroin than ever before."
Conflating all four years together obscures the results of recent
enforcement efforts.
http://goodnewsfromthefront.com/archives/afghanistan/index.php
[see links at that site as well]
# There is some good news in the war on drugs:
Afghanistan has reduced the production and cultivation of opium for
the first time since the Taleban regime fell in 2001, but sustaining
progress in the fight against narcotics will be an uphill struggle, a UN
official and analysts said.
"The progress made in curtailing cultivation in 2005 must be viewed
with caution: these achievements are fragile and could be easily
reversed in the course of a season," Antonio Maria Costa, head of the UN
Office for Drugs and Crime, said while unveiling preliminary findings
from a UN survey this year.
The area of land used to grow opium poppies dropped 21 percent over
the past year, although the opium harvest fell by just 2.4 percent,
largely because crop yields surged after heavy rains ended a seven-year-
long drought, he said.
The news is likely to boost optimism ahead of parliamentary
elections in September, seen as a crucial step on the country's road to
democracy almost four years after US-led forces ousted the
fundamentalist Taleban.
# More resources are being spent on poppy eradication and substitution:
The Afghan government announced the other day an allocation of $20
million dollars to the western Farah province for eradication of poppy
cultivation and providing farmers an alternative source of living...
50 percent of the allocation was available for spending on a project
aimed at providing Farah people an alternative to poppy cultivation. The
rest of the funds to be spent on development and reconstruction projects
would come from international donors.
According to Counter-Narcotics Ministry officials, $380 millions
have been pledged to the government for financing alternative livelihood
and reconstruction projects to benefit growers shunning poppy
cultivation.
Of the aid committed by different donors, $200 millions have been
handed over to the government, which is awaiting the remaining payments
for immediate allocation to the provinces by the end of the year.
the Taliban is a
shadow of its former self, the "warlords" are joining the political
system and cooperating with the government, and women in Afghanistan
have more real freedom now than they ever had before, including a
guaranteed number of seats in the parliament.
Wow, a guaranteed number of seats. And they still get to wear all
those neat black clothes.
Smartass answers prove only that you're a smartass.
Try that mirror sometime.
And the myth was that they had eliminated poppy production.
Afghanistan went from being the number one producer in 1999 to
being the number one producer in 2003.
So what was production in 2001?
I don't know. Certainly not zero.
So you have no idea whether or not they actually cut down
production. You actually had nothing of value to say.
So? You got a citation or are you just blowing smoke?
You were the one using 1999 information to make some kind of point.
Yes, and you haven't refuted it yet.
Well, I gave evidence that production declined under the Taliban and
has increased since.
Declined for what, one whole year? Whooopee. As your own citations
states, they had sufficient stockpiles to continue trading and take
advantage of the higher prices that resulted from choking production for
that one whole year.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
23 Sep 2005 04:14:02 PM |
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These War Lords that essentially run Afghanistan will work with anyone that
helps them maintain their power and control.
"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:ebr8j1hme6t5arupsqocnleke30dskprpm@4ax.com...
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Article from Foreign Affairs magazine.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Rashid99.html#p6
Flower Power
Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In Herat,
the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the best methods
of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program reports that
Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in 1999-twice as much as
in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces three times more opium
than the rest of the world put together. Ninety-six percent of it is
cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest
heroin producer in the world.
The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and
transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest. The
Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments crossing into
Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the only banking system
in the country-offering farmers credit in advance of their poppy crop.
This criminalized economy has weakened states throughout the region...
Didn't the Northern Alliance side with us in the war against the
Taliban?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Budikka666" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 07:45:55 AM |
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This is another example of Stone's cluelessness and lies. He claims to
be an atheist but worships under the auspices of the Bush-I-Do
religion.
I think it's something like 90% or the USA's heroin comes from
Afghanistan, courtesy of George Bush. Afghanistan is now the center of
a new heroin trade:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4713567.stm
Budikka
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 08:07:48 AM |
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"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in
news:1127565955.015090.106940@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
This is another example of Stone's cluelessness and lies. He claims
to be an atheist but worships under the auspices of the Bush-I-Do
religion.
Good old Budikka, got no arguments worth the bandwidth so he goes right
to the denigration and demonization.
I think it's something like 90% or the USA's heroin comes from
Afghanistan, courtesy of George Bush. Afghanistan is now the center
of a new heroin trade:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4713567.stm
It's hardly a new trade, and now that the Taliban is gone, the
government there is willing to cooperate with the US on poppy
eradication instead of encouraging the trade.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
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| User: "RGrannus" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 11:56:29 AM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:07:48 GMT
"Budikka666" <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:
This is another example of Stone's cluelessness and lies. He claims
to be an atheist but worships under the auspices of the Bush-I-Do
religion.
Good old Budikka, got no arguments worth the bandwidth so he goes right
to the denigration and demonization
He's an idiot. I wish he'd find something else to support--his
silly rantings are more suited to the theists.
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| User: "Budikka666" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 05:33:19 PM |
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RGrannus wrote:
He's an idiot. I wish he'd find something else to support--his
silly rantings are more suited to the theists.
Ooh look, another moron who blathers mindlessly and cannot support his
claims. Or is it Stone(r) simply posting under a different handle? I
can't tell the difference.
Budikka
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| User: "RGrannus" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 07:06:23 PM |
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Budikka wrote
RGrannus wrote:
He's an idiot. I wish he'd find something else to support--his
silly rantings are more suited to the theists.
Ooh look, another moron who blathers mindlessly and cannot support his
claims. Or is it Stone(r) simply posting under a different handle? I
can't tell the difference
Of course it's a vast conspiracy. Everyone just happens to think
you're an idiot!
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 10:14:42 AM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Budikka666 <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in
This is another example of Stone's cluelessness and lies. He claims
to be an atheist but worships under the auspices of the Bush-I-Do
religion.
Good old Budikka, got no arguments worth the bandwidth so he goes right
to the denigration and demonization.
I think it's something like 90% or the USA's heroin comes from
Afghanistan, courtesy of George Bush. Afghanistan is now the center
of a new heroin trade:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4713567.stm
It's hardly a new trade, and now that the Taliban is gone, the
government there is willing to cooperate with the US on poppy
eradication instead of encouraging the trade.
Obviously we should get in on the taxing of it instead of trying to
eradicate it through drug wars. Instead of spending billions on a
lost-cause drug war, we should tax the drugs and spend the tax money
on educational programs and free needles and condoms to drug users.
The billions saved on the drug war can be used elsewhere, for any
number of programs which are a likely to be a lot more successful than
some useless drug wars.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "G-Ride" |
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| Title: Re: Heroin and the Taliban - exploding the myth |
24 Sep 2005 01:09:36 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:cqqaj1lqlocu21dq60deiqr29bhna8nh97@4ax.com...
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Budikka666 <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in
This is another example of Stone's cluelessness and lies. He claims
to | | | | | |
