Religions > Atheism > Heterosexual polygamy is fine, but ya better have lots of gays to take up the slack . . .
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Tock" |
| Date: |
14 Jun 2005 02:38:14 AM |
| Object: |
Heterosexual polygamy is fine, but ya better have lots of gays to take up the slack . . . |
Goes to show how the Christian heterosexual polygamist lifestyles are
compared to the everyday gay lifestyle. Too bad all those kids weren't
gay; it sure would solve a lot of their problems in a hurry.
-Tock
==================================
By David Kelly Times Staff Writer, Los Angeles Times Mon Jun 13, 7:55 AM ET
ST. GEORGE, Utah - Abandoned by his family, faith and community, Gideon
Barlow arrived here an orphan from another world.
At first, he played the tough guy, aloof and hard. But when no one was
watching, he would cry.
The freckle-faced 17-year-old said he was left to fend for himself last year
after being forced out of Colorado City, Ariz., a town about 40 miles east
of here, just over the state line.
"I couldn't see how my mom would let them do what they did to me," he said.
When he tried to visit her on Mother's Day, he said, she told him to stay
away. When he begged to give her a present, she said she wanted nothing.
"I am dead to her now," he said.
Gideon is one of the "Lost Boys," a group of more than 400 teenagers - some
as young as 13 - who authorities in Utah and Arizona say have fled or been
driven out of the polygamous enclaves of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City
over the last four years.
His stated offenses: wearing short-sleeved shirts, listening to CDs and
having a girlfriend. Other boys say they were booted out for going to
movies, watching television and staying out past curfew.
Some say they were sometimes given as little as two hours' notice before
being driven to St. George or nearby Hurricane, Utah, and left like unwanted
pets along the road.
Authorities say the teens aren't really being expelled for what they watch
or wear, but rather to reduce competition for women in places where men can
have dozens of wives.
"It's a mathematical thing. If you are marrying all these girls to one man,
what do you do with all the boys?" said Utah Atty. Gen. Mark Shurtleff, who
has had boys in his office crying to see their mothers. "People have said to
me: 'Why don't you prosecute the parents?' But the kids don't want their
parents prosecuted; they want us to get the No. 1 bad guy - Warren Jeffs. He
is chiefly responsible for kicking out these boys."
The 49-year-old Jeffs is the prophet, or leader, of the Fundamentalist
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The FLDS, as it is known,
controls Hildale and Colorado City.
The sect, which broke from the Mormon Church more than a century ago, has
between 10,000 and 15,000 members. It believes in "plural marriage," that a
man must have at least three wives to reach the highest levels of heaven.
The Mormon Church forbids polygamy and excommunicates those who practice it.
Polygamy is also illegal, and in recent weeks law enforcement has turned up
the heat on the FLDS.
On Friday, Jeffs was indicted in Arizona on charges that he had arranged a
marriage between a 28-year-old man, who was already married, and a
16-year-old girl.
He faces two years in prison if convicted, though he hasn't been arrested
and is thought to be in Texas.
A few days earlier, a Utah judge froze the assets of the United Effort Plan,
an FLDS trust that owns most of the homes and land in the polygamous towns.
And on May 24, the records of the financially troubled Colorado City Unified
School District were seized to prevent any evidence of potential wrongdoing
from being spirited away, according to the Arizona attorney general's
office.
At the same time, Jeffs is being sued by five of the Lost Boys, who claim he
conspired to banish them so church elders would have less competition for
wives.
Jeffs has not responded to the lawsuit, filed in Utah's 3rd District Court,
leaving him open to a default judgment from the bench.
"There is a virtual Taliban down there. You tell people this stuff happens
and they don't believe it," said Dan Fischer, a former FLDS member and
dentist living outside Salt Lake City who helps educate and house the exiled
teens. The exodus "has been far more dramatic in the last year."
FLDS officials rarely speak to the media. But church lawyer Rodney Parker,
who isn't a member of the faith, said some of the ousted boys were
delinquents or proved unable to live up to the community's strict moral
code.
"I think many are minimizing their own behavior," he said. "These places are
very different and very strange. But broad-stroke claims about what goes on
down there are exaggerations - and often fiction."
About half a dozen boys who spoke recently say it's all too real.
Tom Sam Steed said he was put on "religious probation" at 15 for sneaking
off to see the film "Charlie's Angels." Shortly after, he said he was
ejected from the FLDS, living temporarily in a tool shed. When he begged to
return to the church, he said he was refused.
"I was really into the religion. I would have been the first to drink the
poison Kool-Aid," said Steed, now 19. "I felt [the faith] was the only way
to go to heaven."
He said he made a personal plea to Jeffs, meeting him in a Colorado City
print shop.
"He told me I wasn't welcome," Steed said. "And on the way out he said:
'Just to let you know, when the final devastation comes, you will be
destroyed.' I believed it completely. If you are told your whole life the
Earth is flat, what else would you believe?"
Many of the exiled boys express affection for their hometowns, but seldom
for the FLDS.
"It wasn't so bad until I got some knowledge of the world and saw how they
treated us," said John Jessop, 16, who said he was thrown out two years ago.
"I would definitely go live there again with my family. It's a great place,
but I want no part of the religion."
Once children are expelled, the FLDS forbids parents from visiting them, and
violating the rule can result in eviction from their church-owned homes, say
state authorities and former town residents. Many parents sever all ties to
their sons.
In some cases, families outside the communities have unofficially adopted
the boys.
That's what happened to Gideon. A Mormon couple, Stacha and Neil Glauser of
St. George, took him in.
"Taking Gideon was an impulsive thing," said Stacha Glauser, a 47-year-old
hairdresser with two other teenagers. "I just couldn't stand seeing a kid
kicked out into the streets."
As a child, she heard strange stories about the polygamous towns, stories of
men with dozens of wives, hundreds of children and homes the size of barns.
According to Gideon, he is one of 71 children born to his father,
73-year-old Dan Barlow, and his father's eight wives.
The Barlows were among Colorado City's first settlers and have served as
political leaders and lawmen. Gideon's father was mayor.
But last year Jeffs called a meeting. He announced that Dan Barlow and 20
other men were being expelled. His reasons were never fully explained.
Then he "reassigned" their wives and children to other men, say local
authorities and witnesses.
"Warren said, 'All who agree with the decision stand up,' and I stood up,"
Gideon said. "I stood because I was scared. My dad left that day."
Suddenly, Gideon had a new father - one who he said didn't like him
listening to music, wearing short-sleeved shirts and mingling with girls.
The pressure built. His mother made a pile of his CDs and shirts to toss
out. Finally, he said, Jeffs gave the order for him to leave.
When Gideon called his exiled father in St. George for help, he was
rebuffed.
"He told me we had two different goals," Gideon said. "He wanted to get back
into the community and said he couldn't help me."
Dan Barlow could not be reached for comment.
Gideon was staying with friends in St. George when the Glausers heard of his
plight from a woman sympathetic to the Lost Boys.
"When Gideon came, he didn't know how to act around people," Stacha Glauser
said. "This was like a foreign country for him."
Like many kids from his hometown, Gideon's poor education left his
vocabulary wanting. When he was hungry, for instance, he asked Glauser to
"build" him something to eat.
"I met his mother once; she was just a baby when she had him," Glauser said.
"I told her she had a really wonderful son. She said she did the best she
could, and that was it."
Last summer, five of the boys who left Colorado City and Hildale filed their
lawsuit, claiming they were excommunicated unfairly. Gideon is not part of
the suit.
Joanne Suder, a Baltimore lawyer and lead counsel in the case, said the
expulsions had resulted in emotional and psychological damage to her
clients.
"They are clearly trying to get rid of the competition. Warren Jeffs himself
is reputed to have 70 wives," Suder said. "These kids are kicked out and
lose the only world they ever knew. They leave without an education and can
have no further contact with their family. It's horrible."
Despite the open practice of polygamy in these towns, authorities have been
careful how they pursue offenders.
In 1953, Arizona state police swarmed into Short Creek, now Colorado City.
They arrested the men and transported crying women and children to detention
camps. The result was a public outpouring of sympathy for the families - and
scorn for state political leaders. The governor, Howard Pyle, lost the next
election.
Today, law enforcement officials are going after the FLDS by targeting child
sexual abuse, welfare fraud and tax evasion rather than polygamy. The
Arizona attorney general's office has opened a branch in Colorado City,
where an investigator looks into alleged illegalities.
In 2003, Rodney Holm, a Colorado City police officer, was sentenced to a
year in prison and three years' probation on charges of bigamy and unlawful
sex with two girls, 16 and 17. Another FLDS member, Orson William Black Jr.,
was charged with child sex crimes and is still at large.
Meanwhile, authorities believe Jeffs has left Colorado City and may be
staying with family at a 1,600-acre compound the FLDS is building near
Eldorado, Texas.
The spiritual heart of the church lies in Hildale and Colorado City,
communities a mile apart with a combined population of about 10,000.
The towns sit at the foot of the remote and majestic Vermillion Cliffs, a
place of red rock isolation. Women walk the streets in bonnets and trousers
under long dresses. Their hair is pinned high on their heads, often with a
braided ponytail hanging in back.
Many of the boys said children didn't attend school past the eighth grade
and that they were taught that blacks were inferior - the offspring of Cain
and doomed to slavery. Such views have earned the FLDS a hate-group
designation by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
The children are told that dinosaurs came from another planet, and man never
walked on the moon. More important, they learn the outside world is wicked
and salvation comes through obedience to the prophet, who channels God's
will.
According to those inside and outside the community, this way of life has
become even stricter since Jeffs took over in 2002. Competitive sports -
said to promote pride - have been curtailed or eliminated. Swimming is
frowned upon, and talking to a girl can earn a boy a visit from the local
police.
Ross Chatwin, who lives in Colorado City, said when Jeffs took charge,
"rumors started going around that if you weren't obedient, you would be
kicked out."
Chatwin, 36, was ordered out last year for trying to marry a second wife
without the prophet's permission. He refused to budge from his sparsely
furnished home in the center of town, and now is in a legal battle with the
city, which once moved another family into his house and briefly shut off
his utilities.
"The kids here are giving up hope," Chatwin said. "There is nothing for them
anymore."
Hildale Mayor David Zitting, an FLDS member, said the exiled boys were
defiant.
"The people in this community have certain standards and values," Zitting
said. "If you have a son or daughter in your home, and their behavior got
worse and worse and they defied you, wouldn't you want them to leave?"
Girls are rarely banished for improper behavior; but there have been several
high-profile cases of girls running away to avoid arranged marriages or
escape sexual abuse.
The first stop for many boys is Hurricane or St. George, where a network for
exiles exists. They often share apartments or sleep on couches while trying
to find work. Some end up in Las Vegas or Salt Lake City.
Fischer, the former FLDS member who runs the Diversity Foundation in
suburban Salt Lake City, wants to raise awareness about the boys as well as
provide them with housing and further their education.
"The sole purpose of this foundation is to maintain a relationship with the
Lost Boys," said Dave Bills, managing director of the organization. "I keep
tabs on them. I offer them programs to get educated. Education is the key to
this whole thing."
The boys working with the foundation are either in school or getting their
GEDs. If they want to attend college, the Diversity Foundation will pay for
it.
Bills said that many of the Lost Boys had emotional problems and turned to
drugs or alcohol. "Imagine being 16 years old and asked, 'If you had one
wish, what would it be?' These kids say, 'I'd love to see my mom.' "
Gideon has pretty much given up on that.
He attends high school in St. George and is learning to navigate, even
embrace, the world he was once warned against.
He still favors wearing short sleeves - and flashy shell necklaces. His
cellphone rings often. Regular sessions with a therapist have made it easier
to talk about his past, and he doesn't flinch anymore when classmates call
him "the polygamist."
He is coming to grips with being abandoned, and no longer cries when talking
about his family.
"If you have 71 brothers and sisters in the house, how can you establish a
relationship with your father?" he asked.
As for his mother, Gideon is moving on.
"This is my mom," he said, nodding toward Glauser. "She treats me the way a
mother should treat a son. She wakes me in the morning. She always talks to
me. I don't know if I could ever pay her back."
As traumatic as the experience has been, Gideon said, it has taught him a
crucial lesson about family and faith.
"No loving God would tear a family apart," he said. "Because a family is
meant to be together."
.
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| User: "Bonnie B." |
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| Title: Re: Heterosexual polygamy is fine, but ya better have lots of gays to take up the slack . . . |
14 Jun 2005 04:21:57 AM |
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On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:38:14 GMT, "Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
According to Gideon, he is one of 71 children born to his father,
73-year-old Dan Barlow, and his father's eight wives.
HOLY SHITTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seventy-one kids!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????
<Bonnie passes out>
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| User: "Terrell D Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Heterosexual polygamy is fine, but ya better have lots of gays to take up the slack . . . |
14 Jun 2005 05:07:14 AM |
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On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:21:57 -0700, Bonnie B. <456eerts@emas.org>
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:38:14 GMT, "Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
According to Gideon, he is one of 71 children born to his father,
73-year-old Dan Barlow, and his father's eight wives.
HOLY SHITTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seventy-one kids!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????
<Bonnie passes out>
The Bible highly values children, they are "arrows" in one's "quiver."
In ancient Israel (and even some modern (sic) countries), women could
not inherit, the daughters went to their husband's house and the boys
were a woman's "social security."
Up until the industrial age kids were an asset, the more kids you had
to help on the farm, the better off the whole family was. Before the
1900s, the average woman gave birth to 13 children.
Terrell D Lewis
http://www.lastofall.com
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: Heterosexual polygamy is fine, but ya better have lots of gays to take up the slack . . . |
14 Jun 2005 10:30:58 AM |
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"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:oeosa1d4o3eqbcbgkcdtk16k3fnlffltra@4ax.com...
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:21:57 -0700, Bonnie B. <456eerts@emas.org>
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:38:14 GMT, "Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
According to Gideon, he is one of 71 children born to his father,
73-year-old Dan Barlow, and his father's eight wives.
HOLY SHITTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seventy-one kids!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????
<Bonnie passes out>
The Bible highly values children, they are "arrows" in one's "quiver."
In ancient Israel (and even some modern (sic) countries), women could
not inherit, the daughters went to their husband's house and the boys
were a woman's "social security."
Up until the industrial age kids were an asset, the more kids you had
to help on the farm, the better off the whole family was. Before the
1900s, the average woman gave birth to 13 children.
9, the average number was 9 children. Of the women that actually survived
her child bearing years, the number was 13. However, 2 out of 5 women died
either during childbirth, or due to complications from childbirth.
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| User: "Bonnie B." |
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| Title: Re: Heterosexual polygamy is fine, but ya better have lots of gays to take up the slack . . . |
14 Jun 2005 06:42:16 AM |
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On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 05:07:14 GMT, Terrell D Lewis
<composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:21:57 -0700, Bonnie B. <456eerts@emas.org>
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:38:14 GMT, "Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
According to Gideon, he is one of 71 children born to his father,
73-year-old Dan Barlow, and his father's eight wives.
HOLY SHITTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seventy-one kids!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????
<Bonnie passes out>
The Bible highly values children, they are "arrows" in one's "quiver."
Except when the Babble says YVHV wants you to sacrifice your kid.
In ancient Israel (and even some modern (sic) countries), women could
not inherit, the daughters went to their husband's house and the boys
were a woman's "social security."
Up until the industrial age kids were an asset, the more kids you had
to help on the farm, the better off the whole family was. Before the
1900s, the average woman gave birth to 13 children.
That's all fine and dandy, if one aspires to be a baby factory or a
sperm machine. But, as you touched upon, we're in the post-industrial
age. And with 6.5 billion of us running 'round the planet, the need to
replenish the tribe just doesn't exist. Humanity will not be dying out
anytime soon due to a negative birthrate.
Ein Prosit der GemŸtlichkeit --
Bonnie *****
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| User: "Elf M. Sternberg" |
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| Title: Re: Heterosexual polygamy is fine, but ya better have lots of gays to take up the slack . . . |
14 Jun 2005 01:26:39 PM |
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Terrell D Lewis <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> writes:
The Bible highly values children, they are "arrows" in one's "quiver."
So does the Q'ran. After all, the record number of children
father by one man is 870 or so, by one "Ishmael the Bloodthirsty." It's
also no coincidence that the record is held by someone named "the
Bloodthirsty." The desire for excess children is, like your terminology
above, inevitably tied to a desire to secure one's future through
violent means.
Elf
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Heterosexual polygamy is fine, but ya better have lots of gays to take up the slack . . . |
14 Jun 2005 06:54:07 AM |
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On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:21:57 -0700, Bonnie B. <456eerts@emas.org>
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:38:14 GMT, "Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
According to Gideon, he is one of 71 children born to his father,
73-year-old Dan Barlow, and his father's eight wives.
HOLY SHITTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seventy-one kids!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????
<Bonnie passes out>
Eight morthers in law.
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| User: "Bonnie B." |
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| Title: Re: Heterosexual polygamy is fine, but ya better have lots of gays to take up the slack . . . |
14 Jun 2005 06:57:59 AM |
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On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:54:07 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:21:57 -0700, Bonnie B. <456eerts@emas.org>
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:38:14 GMT, "Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
According to Gideon, he is one of 71 children born to his father,
73-year-old Dan Barlow, and his father's eight wives.
HOLY SHITTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seventy-one kids!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????
<Bonnie passes out>
Eight morthers in law.
If that's not the definition of Hell, then I don't know what is.
Ein Prosit der GemŸtlichkeit --
Bonnie *****
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| User: "Natalie Clifford Barney" |
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| Title: Re: Heterosexual polygamy is fine, but ya better have lots of gays totake up the slack . . . |
14 Jun 2005 02:21:58 PM |
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"Bonnie B." wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:54:07 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:21:57 -0700, Bonnie B. <456eerts@emas.org>
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:38:14 GMT, "Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
According to Gideon, he is one of 71 children born to his father,
73-year-old Dan Barlow, and his father's eight wives.
HOLY SHITTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seventy-one kids!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????
<Bonnie passes out>
Eight morthers in law.
If that's not the definition of Hell, then I don't know what is.
Ein Prosit der GemŸtlichkeit --
Bonnie *****
Bonnie;
For real. I am still on my ex mom-in-law's hit list for coming out.
Kesnit's mom doesnt like me either.....
--
"A woman without a touch of bitchery is like milk without Vitamin D."
Caresse Crosby
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| User: "Bonnie B." |
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| Title: Re: Heterosexual polygamy is fine, but ya better have lots of gays to take up the slack . . . |
14 Jun 2005 04:58:30 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:21:58 GMT, Natalie Clifford Barney
<SalonHostess@20RueJacob.fr> wrote:
"Bonnie B." wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:54:07 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:21:57 -0700, Bonnie B. <456eerts@emas.org>
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:38:14 GMT, "Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
According to Gideon, he is one of 71 children born to his father,
73-year-old Dan Barlow, and his father's eight wives.
HOLY SHITTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seventy-one kids!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????
<Bonnie passes out>
Eight morthers in law.
If that's not the definition of Hell, then I don't know what is.
Ein Prosit der GemÙtlichkeit --
Bonnie *****
Bonnie;
For real. I am still on my ex mom-in-law's hit list for coming out.
Oh, dear -- is the old gal gonna buy the farm anytime soon?
Kesnit's mom doesnt like me either.....
My biggest problem with an LTR would be my insane, whack-job family,
too. I understand.
Ein Prosit der GemŸtlichkeit --
Bonnie *****
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| User: "James Ascher" |
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| Title: Re: Heterosexual polygamy is fine, but ya better have lots of gaysto take up the slack . . . |
14 Jun 2005 11:34:56 AM |
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Tock wrote:
Goes to show how the Christian heterosexual polygamist lifestyles are
compared to the everyday gay lifestyle. Too bad all those kids weren't
gay; it sure would solve a lot of their problems in a hurry.
-Tock
==================================
By David Kelly Times Staff Writer, Los Angeles Times Mon Jun 13, 7:55 AM ET
ST. GEORGE, Utah - Abandoned by his family, faith and community, Gideon
Barlow arrived here an orphan from another world.
At first, he played the tough guy, aloof and hard. But when no one was
watching, he would cry.
The freckle-faced 17-year-old said he was left to fend for himself last year
after being forced out of Colorado City, Ariz., a town about 40 miles east
of here, just over the state line.
"I couldn't see how my mom would let them do what they did to me," he said.
When he tried to visit her on Mother's Day, he said, she told him to stay
away. When he begged to give her a present, she said she wanted nothing.
"I am dead to her now," he said.
Gideon is one of the "Lost Boys," a group of more than 400 teenagers - some
as young as 13 - who authorities in Utah and Arizona say have fled or been
driven out of the polygamous enclaves of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City
over the last four years.
I wonder how many of them end up as drug addicts or prostitutes? That's
just the soret of thing the Mormons would oppose!
James
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