High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "The Church of The Painful Truth"
Date: 06 Mar 2004 07:12:11 PM
Object: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion
High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion
© Gary L. Achtemeier, Ph.D.
All Rights Reserved. Used by permission. [Last Modified: 10 March 2002]
n Wednesday, August 11, 1999, the Kansas Board of Education adopted new
science standards for statewide testing of students that no longer require
knowledge of evolution as a way to describe the emergence of new species-for
instance the evolution of primates into Homo sapiens (macro-evolution)-while
requiring knowledge of "micro-evolution," changes that occur within a single
species. The decision gives a mild snub to the theory of evolution credited
to Charles Darwin. Apparently the Board decided that 140 years of research
involving thousands of scientists spending millions of dollars had failed to
produce sufficient evidence to confirm the theory.
Scientists, professionals, and academics appealed to the Board on behalf of
modern science that removing an important concept like evolution from life
sciences and biology would intellectually cripple students. Nothing in
biology, it was claimed, makes sense except in light of evolution. On the
other side were mostly parents who were concerned with what their children
were being taught.
As soon as the decision was cast, the propaganda war began. Darwinists have
discovered that the best way to silence those who question evolution is to
marginalize them through ridicule and character assassination. They
characterized those who supported the new guidelines, including parents, as
bible-thumping fundamentalists, dangerous pseudo-scientists, flat earthers,
etc. Unfortunately, much of the stereotyping was done by journalists who did
not stop for an instant to find out what the issues were, who the parties
were or what they believed. The Chicago Tribune chanted, "intellectual
chicanery." The Boston Globe saw "evolving creationist" fundamentalists. The
Washington Post decried "literal belief in biblical creation stories."
The issues discussed at Kansas, however, go beyond disagreements with church
doctrines to concern for the safety of children. After the Littleton
massacre, parents testifying before a congressional subcommittee on the
matter claimed that removal from the classroom of prayer, the Ten
Commandments, and other biblical teachings on human behavior created a
climate favorable for murderous behavior. That may be true, but I believe it
is not the whole story. The congressional testimony did not adequately
explore the thought systems that have replaced the abolished biblical
doctrines.
Science, real science-the work that ferrets out empirical facts about the
nature that surrounds us-has been co-opted by an ancient
philosophical/religious doctrine the origins of which can be traced back to
at least 400-700 years before Christ. Known today variously as scientism,
evolutionism, metaphysical naturalism, and Darwinism, this doctrine has been
so effectively interlaced with science that it is often difficult for the
scientist, much less the layperson, to separate the two.
Though secular in perspective (Darwinists claim the natural world is all
there is), Darwinism nevertheless functions much like a religion. Darwinists
have their own creation story (macro-evolution), their own creed (the
Humanist Manifesto), their own "messiah figures" (those who come claiming,
"Come, follow us. We know the ways of life."), their own clergy (those whose
task it is to preach the "truth" as revealed by the high priests), and their
own priesthood (those who pass down to the masses their latest ruminations
in naturalistic thought).
One of the "high priests" of evolution is Harvard professor of zoology,
Stephen Jay Gould. Like other leaders of the Darwinian faith, Gould has
taken special pains to assure the masses that evolution is only about
science, that science and religion function in two separate domains, and
that there should be no conflict between the two-as long as religion stays
within its proper realm. Problems arise only when Christian fundamentalists,
who don't understand science, try to make science fit their personal
theologies. Writing in the August 21 issue of Time Magazine, Gould
reasserted this doctrine: "No scientific theory, including evolution, can
pose any threat to religion-for these two great tools of human understanding
operate in complementary (not contrary) fashion in their totally separate
realms: science as an inquiry about the factual state of the natural world,
religion as a search for spiritual meaning and ethical values."
Many religious leaders have bought the ruse. However, as is so often the
case, those with the most the lose are usually the ones who take the effort
to become the best informed. Conservative Christians have discovered that
while science may be neutral on religious issues, Darwinism is not. The real
conflict is between two equally religious belief systems. Darwinists,
however, with assistance from misguided media, have been astonishingly
successful at painting the issue as one of a small group of ignorant
fundamentalists pitting their outdated biblical myths against the studied
results of empirical science. Thus, by making it appear to be nonreligious,
Darwinism can appear to be no threat to religion and by making it appear to
most churchgoers that there exists no conflict between Christianity and
evolution, Darwinists have effectively mollified the opposition and have
been free to rob the store.
Though the date of the Kansas Board of Education's rather insignificant
decision still rings loudly through the propaganda mills of the media,
another date, June 25, 1999, will eventually ring louder, I believe. Writing
an editorial in the magazine Science, the frontispiece of the prestigious
National Association for the Advancement of Science, Stephen Jay Gould
launched a direct attack on religion thereby exposing the true religious
nature of Darwinism. After quoting Psalm 8 "Thou has made him a little lower
than the angels...thou madest him to have dominion...thou has put all things
under his feet." Gould went on to state, "Darwin removed this keystone of
false comfort more than a century ago, but many people still believe that
they cannot navigate this vale of tears without such a crutch." Ending the
article, Gould admonished his readers, "Let us praise this evolutionary
nexus, a far more stately mansion for the human soul than any pretty or
parochial comfort ever conjured by our swollen neurology to obscure the
source of our physical being, or to deny the natural substrate for our
separate and complementary spiritual quest."
Here Gould has gone much farther than the occasional witty jabs of fellow
high priest, Richard Dawkins ("Evolution has made it possible to be an
intellectually fulfilled atheist") or the late Carl Sagan, who, writing in
the introduction of Stephen Hawkings book, A Brief History of Time, claimed
naturalistic evolution leaves "nothing for a creator to do." Gould has
proposed to substitute for Christianity and other religions, "a far more
stately mansion for the human soul...."
The question that confronts us and is the focus of the remainder of this
essay is: Why did Professor Gould choose this hour to break with Darwinism's
tenuous accommodation with religion? Why did Gould abandon a successful
strategy that has allowed Darwinists to co-opt America's educational
institutions while good people slept? Gould is a master tactician and surely
the timing and wording of his editorial were not accidental. Furthermore,
from letters to the editor of Science, the immediate reaction of scientists
to his epiphany was outrage. What does Gould hope to gain by what amounts to
an open admission of the religious foundation of Darwinism, a betrayal of a
secret that has been well-kept for decades?
One reason why Gould may have departed from the ruse of accommodation with
religion is Darwinists' perceived loss of control of the scientific and
educational world. Three events have come together lately to make this
possible. First, deep from within the biological sciences there has arisen a
group of scientists who are promoting intelligent design (ID), the concept
that a intelligent agency was involved in some stages of life's origin and
dispersal. Drawing from recent advances in molecular biology and information
theory, the ID theorists have come to recognize that purely naturalistic
evolution cannot possibly explain every step in the emergence of living
organisms. The discovery of minimum irreducible complexity in bio-molecular
structures utterly falsifies the foundational premise of Darwin's theory,
namely that biological organisms arise through gradual accumulation of small
mutational changes. Furthermore, there is no known source of information
apart from intelligent design. Darwinists have been unable to imagine how
the immense information content of the highly specified DNA genetic code
might have arisen by chance, let alone design a scientific experiment and
collect data to explain it.
So far, the ID scientists have resisted attempts by Darwinists to silence
them. Vilification has not worked. Marginalization has not worked because
many of the IDers are biological scientists who actually do the research.
Attempts to stereotype them as fundamentalists seeking to promote biblical
creation stories, which may play well with the media and others predisposed
to Darwinism, have served to radicalize the ID scientists.
Second, with the breakup of the iron curtain and the parting of the bamboo
curtain, the biological sciences are enjoying a global renaissance of sorts.
Biological scientists in Asia, particularly China, do not hold blind
allegiance to Darwin as do their colleagues in the West. They seem disposed
to requiring the theory to fit the data rather than making the data fit the
theory. Hostilities with American Darwinists during a recent biological
conference held in China prompted one Chinese scientist to remark, "In China
we can question Darwin but we can't question the government; in America, you
can question the government but you can't question Darwin."
Third, though they nearly completely control educational institutions from
kindergarten through graduate school and virtually monopolize all forms of
the media, Darwinists have discovered through recent polls that fewer than
ten percent of Americans believe in the totally random, unsupervised,
impersonal, godless origin-of-life story promoted by the Darwinists. Many
more Americans believe in some form of evolution directed by a supernatural
agency. Fully half of Americans don't believe in macro-evolution at all.
Seven of ten Americans think evolution should be taught along with the
scientific evidence that does not support evolution. Obviously attempts to
indoctrinate American school children into a Darwinistic view of life have
not been as successful as was hoped.
Another reason why professor Gould may have departed from the Darwinist ruse
of accommodation with religion is a growing suspicion of the underlying
source of violence in our schools and our society. The lure of Darwinism is
in its promise of unfettered licentiousness but its curse is
purposelessness. Darwinists claim there is no God (therefore there is no
accountability for our actions) and we are an accidental coming together of
molecules on an insignificant planet near a minor star in just another
galaxy (life has no purpose). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to
recognize the volatility of the mixture. Combining licentiousness with
purposelessness for the disturbed mind is like touching an open flame to
gasoline. In his Science editorial, Pastor Gould wrote, "Evolution liberates
the human spirit." With no accountability for our actions, evolution
liberates the totalitarian, the despot, the "dog-eat-dog" capitalist, the
child molester, and others who find their liberties in exploiting the weak.
Officials charged with explaining the "why" of the recent high school mass
killings have been troubled by the "where" the killings took place. The "Law
of the Old West" tends to reign in the black communities and ghettos of the
inner cities where students arm themselves for protection, but these murders
occurred in the sanitized education factories of prosperous white suburbs.
The perpetrators were troubled, yes, but bright-that is, bright enough to
make the connect. If there is no purpose, if there is no accountability, if
there is no way out of the pain and emptiness of life, then why not maximize
the license and exit in a towering ball of flame. The Littleton killers
committed suicide. A Gallup poll of teenagers who had considered or tried to
commit suicide found that almost half (41 percent) cited depression or
feeling worthless as the reason.
After having smeared our television screens with his heinous murders,
Atlanta's Mark Barton allowed police to corner him and then committed his
"coup de grace." Barton left behind letters describing the unbearable pain
in his life and his utter hopelessness. Memories of Milwaukee serial killer
Jeffrey Dahmer, who not only killed but ate his victims, are now fading.
However, in a Dateline NBC program that aired in 1994, Dahmer's father had
this to say. "If you don't-if a person doesn't think that there is a God to
be accountable to, then-then what's-what's the point of-of trying to modify
your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That's how I thought
anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just
came from the slime. When we-when we died, you know, that was it, there is
nothing....." Men hunt and kill animals for food. If the younger Dahmer had
followed his father's footsteps and had convinced himself that man is just
another animal then what's wrong with hunting and killing men for food?
Stephen Gould claims Darwinism would "liberate the human spirit."
Historically, the survival of the fittest message of Darwinism has provided
rationale for some of the most outrageously uncivilized actions by
"liberated believers." One notorious practitioner of Darwinism wrote, "He
who would live must fight; he who does not wish to fight in this world where
permanent struggle is the law of life, has not the right to exist." His book
was Mein Kampf; his name was Adolf Hitler. Both Lenin and Stalin praised
Darwin for liberating them from encumbering theology. Karl Marx wished to
dedicate his book to Darwin. Darwinian philosophy has been foundational for
moving abortion from crime to respectability. It is estimated that in this
century somewhere between 100 million and 150 million human beings have met
with untimely death at the hands of those who appealed to Darwin in some
manner to justify their actions.
Darwinists of the first half century openly taught that blacks were being
selected out of the human race. In that view, the infamous Tuskegee
Experiment made sense. Darwinists taught that women were inferior to men
since men were competing with animals and each other while women were
staying home with children. The killers and bigots of the first half century
have been replaced by the killers and bigots of the last half century. The
players are different but the script is the same.
There may be other reasons for Stephen Gould's apparently reckless attack on
religion in his Science editorial. A contributing factor could be a growing
conservatism among an aging population. Perhaps the prospect of a Republican
president serving with a Republican congress could embolden constitutional
challenges with efforts to require Darwinists to produce their evidence in a
forum subject to cross examination.
This brings us back to the Kansas Board of Education decision. According to
a knowledgeable source, the chairwoman of the Board requested evidence in
support of macro-evolution. What she basically got in reply was, "We´re the
experts, and that will have to do."
After the media propaganda guns have silenced and we have opportunity to
reflect on the issues, we may discover that the Kansas folks have much to
teach us. There is little reason to teach as revealed truth an ideology for
which vast amounts of supporting evidence are claimed but seldom produced,
especially when that ideology is at the root of much destructive behavior.
Regarding macro-evolution, Darwinists have little to show for 140 years of
research by thousands of scientists spending millions of dollars of research
money. If macro-evolution eventually is proven as the mechanism for the
origin and dispersal of life, the Kansas Board of Education and similar
educational institutions will have to face the realities. Until the
supporting evidence is in, educators have the right to defer accepting the
theory-and teaching it, unless evolution is taught along with scientific
data that refutes it. The message from the agricultural heartland is, "We
don't buy the milk before the cows come home."
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.

User: ""

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 07 Mar 2004 04:07:58 PM
Hello "The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian :

High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion

<snip>
Is he like the High Priest of Automobiles? Or of Cooking?
ROTFL
.

User: "Ross Langerak"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 07 Mar 2004 02:04:31 AM
"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com> wrote in
message news:nospam-rLu2c.774$QY1.63050@news.uswest.net...

High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion
© Gary L. Achtemeier, Ph.D.
All Rights Reserved. Used by permission. [Last Modified: 10 March

2002]
[snip - assertions that there is no evidence for evolution]
Evolution is overwhelmingly supported by the evidence. See
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-research.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/molgen/
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/horses/
http://www.talkorigins.org/features/whales/
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
.

User: "Dave Oldridge"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 07 Mar 2004 01:52:22 AM
"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com> wrote in
news:nospam-rLu2c.774$QY1.63050@news.uswest.net:

High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion
© Gary L. Achtemeier, Ph.D.
All Rights Reserved. Used by permission. [Last Modified: 10 March
2002]

n Wednesday, August 11, 1999, the Kansas Board of Education adopted
new science standards for statewide testing of students that no longer
require knowledge of evolution as a way to describe the emergence of
new species-for instance the evolution of primates into Homo sapiens
(macro-evolution)-while requiring knowledge of "micro-evolution,"
changes that occur within a single species. The decision gives a mild
snub to the theory of evolution credited to Charles Darwin. Apparently
the Board decided that 140 years of research involving thousands of
scientists spending millions of dollars had failed to produce
sufficient evidence to confirm the theory.

Scientists, professionals, and academics appealed to the Board on
behalf of modern science that removing an important concept like
evolution from life sciences and biology would intellectually cripple
students. Nothing in biology, it was claimed, makes sense except in
light of evolution. On the other side were mostly parents who were
concerned with what their children were being taught.

As soon as the decision was cast, the propaganda war began. Darwinists
have discovered that the best way to silence those who question
evolution is to marginalize them through ridicule and character
assassination. They characterized those who supported the new

Ridicule is appropriate when something is ridiculous. But how does one
assassinate a suicide?

guidelines, including parents, as bible-thumping fundamentalists,
dangerous pseudo-scientists, flat earthers, etc. Unfortunately, much
of the stereotyping was done by journalists who did not stop for an
instant to find out what the issues were, who the parties were or what
they believed. The Chicago Tribune chanted, "intellectual chicanery."
The Boston Globe saw "evolving creationist" fundamentalists. The
Washington Post decried "literal belief in biblical creation stories."


The issues discussed at Kansas, however, go beyond disagreements with
church doctrines to concern for the safety of children. After the
Littleton massacre, parents testifying before a congressional
subcommittee on the matter claimed that removal from the classroom of
prayer, the Ten Commandments, and other biblical teachings on human
behavior created a climate favorable for murderous behavior. That may

I've seen more murderous behaviour incited in the name of religion than
just about anything else. And don't get me wrong, I'm a believer.

be true, but I believe it is not the whole story. The congressional
testimony did not adequately explore the thought systems that have
replaced the abolished biblical doctrines.

The biblical doctrines never were science and were never intended to be
science. There is your error, right there.

Science, real science-the work that ferrets out empirical facts about
the nature that surrounds us-has been co-opted by an ancient
philosophical/religious doctrine the origins of which can be traced
back to at least 400-700 years before Christ. Known today variously as
scientism, evolutionism, metaphysical naturalism, and Darwinism, this
doctrine has been so effectively interlaced with science that it is
often difficult for the scientist, much less the layperson, to
separate the two.

To put it bluntly, *****. You are simply trying to characterize the
SCIENCE that disproves your false prophecies as a religion to avoid
having to deal with it as science.

Though secular in perspective (Darwinists claim the natural world is
all there is), Darwinism nevertheless functions much like a religion.

Actually, many scientists who work in the field of evolution are
Christians. It is only a minority of Christians who insist that their
literalist understanding of Genesis is mandatory for salvation who get
really upset with the science.

Darwinists have their own creation story (macro-evolution), their own
creed (the Humanist Manifesto), their own "messiah figures" (those who
come claiming, "Come, follow us. We know the ways of life."), their
own clergy (those whose task it is to preach the "truth" as revealed
by the high priests), and their own priesthood (those who pass down to
the masses their latest ruminations in naturalistic thought).


One of the "high priests" of evolution is Harvard professor of
zoology, Stephen Jay Gould. Like other leaders of the Darwinian faith,

Actually, he's dead and not a "high priest" of anything, though he did,
in his day write a lot of material, including some good essays on the
subject of evolution.

Gould has taken special pains to assure the masses that evolution is
only about science, that science and religion function in two separate
domains, and that there should be no conflict between the two-as long
as religion stays within its proper realm. Problems arise only when
Christian fundamentalists, who don't understand science, try to make
science fit their personal theologies. Writing in the August 21 issue

And that is essentially true.

of Time Magazine, Gould reasserted this doctrine: "No scientific
theory, including evolution, can pose any threat to religion-for these
two great tools of human understanding operate in complementary (not
contrary) fashion in their totally separate realms: science as an
inquiry about the factual state of the natural world, religion as a
search for spiritual meaning and ethical values."


Many religious leaders have bought the ruse. However, as is so often

No, many religious leaders already recognized the threat posed by the
Morrisite heresy's attempt to inveigle it's false doctrines into school
curricula. Now we have the Johnsonite heresy to contend with, too.

the case, those with the most the lose are usually the ones who take
the effort to become the best informed. Conservative Christians have
discovered that while science may be neutral on religious issues,
Darwinism is not. The real conflict is between two equally religious
belief systems. Darwinists, however, with assistance from misguided
media, have been astonishingly successful at painting the issue as one
of a small group of ignorant fundamentalists pitting their outdated
biblical myths against the studied results of empirical science. Thus,
by making it appear to be nonreligious, Darwinism can appear to be no
threat to religion and by making it appear to most churchgoers that
there exists no conflict between Christianity and evolution,
Darwinists have effectively mollified the opposition and have been
free to rob the store.

Nobody is robbing the store. Those who oppose the science are quite free
to publish THEIR science in peer reviewed science journals from whence it
could make its way into school science classes. But you see, they don't
HAVE any science to publish. I don't know how many hundreds of
creationists I've asked. When asked for the theory of creation (or the
theory of ID) they start attacking evolution with spurious evidence.

Though the date of the Kansas Board of Education's rather
insignificant decision still rings loudly through the propaganda mills
of the media, another date, June 25, 1999, will eventually ring
louder, I believe. Writing an editorial in the magazine Science, the
frontispiece of the prestigious National Association for the
Advancement of Science, Stephen Jay Gould launched a direct attack on
religion thereby exposing the true religious nature of Darwinism.
After quoting Psalm 8 "Thou has made him a little lower than the
angels...thou madest him to have dominion...thou has put all things
under his feet." Gould went on to state, "Darwin removed this keystone
of false comfort more than a century ago, but many people still
believe that they cannot navigate this vale of tears without such a
crutch." Ending the article, Gould admonished his readers, "Let us
praise this evolutionary nexus, a far more stately mansion for the
human soul than any pretty or parochial comfort ever conjured by our
swollen neurology to obscure the source of our physical being, or to
deny the natural substrate for our separate and complementary
spiritual quest."

Actually, the only religious ideas Gould was attacking were false ones.
Things like the claim that man is not, biologically an animal, a mammal,
a primate.

Here Gould has gone much farther than the occasional witty jabs of
fellow high priest, Richard Dawkins ("Evolution has made it possible
to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist") or the late Carl Sagan,
who, writing in the introduction of Stephen Hawkings book, A Brief
History of Time, claimed naturalistic evolution leaves "nothing for a
creator to do." Gould has proposed to substitute for Christianity and
other religions, "a far more stately mansion for the human soul...."

I'll give you Dawkins. Sometimes he expresses outright atheist anti-
theology in his writings. But, in doing so, he departs from the strict
limitations of science. I've not really seen Gould do that, though he
did clearly have a philosophy that was not Christian. But so what?
Science is an enterprise that should be the same for atheists, Hindus,
Buddhists, Muslims, Jews and Christians alike. That's the real beauty of
its methodology when properly applied.

The question that confronts us and is the focus of the remainder of
this essay is: Why did Professor Gould choose this hour to break with
Darwinism's tenuous accommodation with religion? Why did Gould abandon
a successful strategy that has allowed Darwinists to co-opt America's
educational institutions while good people slept? Gould is a master
tactician and surely the timing and wording of his editorial were not
accidental. Furthermore, from letters to the editor of Science, the
immediate reaction of scientists to his epiphany was outrage. What
does Gould hope to gain by what amounts to an open admission of the
religious foundation of Darwinism, a betrayal of a secret that has
been well-kept for decades?

One reason why Gould may have departed from the ruse of accommodation
with religion is Darwinists' perceived loss of control of the
scientific and educational world. Three events have come together

Maybe it's because of the creationists' ruse of claiming to be doing
science when what they are REALLY doing is trying to sneak their
apologetic past the US constitution and into the schools as science??

lately to make this possible. First, deep from within the biological
sciences there has arisen a group of scientists who are promoting
intelligent design (ID), the concept that a intelligent agency was

You mean a fringe mathematician who cannot reason correctly, a fringe
biochemist whose reasoning powers are similarly limited, a Moonie
apologist who lied his way to a PhD for his "faith," all led by a slick
sophist lawyer (who is probably responsible for the failure of reason on
the part of two of his noted followers).

involved in some stages of life's origin and dispersal. Drawing from
recent advances in molecular biology and information theory, the ID
theorists have come to recognize that purely naturalistic evolution

Now there's an oxymoron. ID theorist. What, pray tell is this theory of
ID and how can we test it, using the scientific method? All I have seen
so far is a pile of bad rhetoric, including some arguments from
incredulity, but by no means limited to that fallacy.

cannot possibly explain every step in the emergence of living
organisms. The discovery of minimum irreducible complexity in

Since we do not know what the steps were, this should ring all of your
fallacy alarms. The fact that you blandly repeat it means that you, too,
are logically challenged.

bio-molecular structures utterly falsifies the foundational premise of

Uh, no such thing has ever even been proven to exist. Or to put it
another way, any complexity we've seen is ultimately reducible unless you
try to sweep under the rug the fact that evolution not only adds things
but also removes redundancy.

Darwin's theory, namely that biological organisms arise through
gradual accumulation of small mutational changes. Furthermore, there
is no known source of information apart from intelligent design.

*****. Random mutations that are not present in the genome ARE new
information presented to natural selection. By any reasonably criterion
for quantifying information. In other words, your sources are simply
liars or are so deluded with their own rationalizations that they don't
know what they are pontificating about.

Darwinists have been unable to imagine how the immense information
content of the highly specified DNA genetic code might have arisen by
chance, let alone design a scientific experiment and collect data to
explain it.

This is false to fact. I suggest you actually read some books on
evolution before you pontificate like this. Random mutations present new
infermation all the time. Natural selection SPECIFIES which information
(however complex) is preserved. We have been observing this stuff for AT
LEAST 50 years now.

So far, the ID scientists have resisted attempts by Darwinists to
silence them. Vilification has not worked. Marginalization has not

Nobody has succeeded in silencing the Neonazi movement either. That, in
itself, does not mean they are correct.

worked because many of the IDers are biological scientists who
actually do the research. Attempts to stereotype them as
fundamentalists seeking to promote biblical creation stories, which
may play well with the media and others predisposed to Darwinism, have
served to radicalize the ID scientists.

Actually, they seem to be old-earth creationists with a very poor
understanding of both theology and science (and sometimes of ethics,
too).

Second, with the breakup of the iron curtain and the parting of the
bamboo curtain, the biological sciences are enjoying a global
renaissance of sorts. Biological scientists in Asia, particularly
China, do not hold blind allegiance to Darwin as do their colleagues
in the West. They seem disposed to requiring the theory to fit the
data rather than making the data fit the theory. Hostilities with
American Darwinists during a recent biological conference held in
China prompted one Chinese scientist to remark, "In China we can
question Darwin but we can't question the government; in America, you
can question the government but you can't question Darwin."

Yes, Lysenkoism was taught in most communist countries for decades.
Sometimes it results in some frustration as scientists have to unlearn
dogmas that were taught because they were politically correct. Of course
creationists would create a similar situation, since that is their
thrust, too--to make their dogmas politically correct "science."

Third, though they nearly completely control educational institutions
from kindergarten through graduate school and virtually monopolize all
forms of the media, Darwinists have discovered through recent polls
that fewer than ten percent of Americans believe in the totally
random, unsupervised, impersonal, godless origin-of-life story
promoted by the Darwinists. Many more Americans believe in some form

Argumentum ad numerum fallacy. Do they TEACH you people sophistry in
some school somewhere, or does it just flow naturally from your heretical
religious ethic?

of evolution directed by a supernatural agency. Fully half of
Americans don't believe in macro-evolution at all. Seven of ten
Americans think evolution should be taught along with the scientific
evidence that does not support evolution. Obviously attempts to
indoctrinate American school children into a Darwinistic view of life
have not been as successful as was hoped.

When you actually HAVE some scientific evidence that does not support
evolution, why don't you come back and state this again. In the
meantime, why don't you go and LOOK for some. But be sure that it is
actually scientific evidence and not just a few half truths and a pile of
stinking sophistry.

Another reason why professor Gould may have departed from the
Darwinist ruse of accommodation with religion is a growing suspicion
of the underlying source of violence in our schools and our society.
The lure of Darwinism is in its promise of unfettered licentiousness
but its curse is purposelessness. Darwinists claim there is no God

More *****. Actually this is a form of argumentum ad baculum. You
are arguing that evolution MUST be false because of some imaginary (or
even real) consequences of accepting it. I repeat, do they TEACH you
sophistry in some school or seminary or something or does it just flow
naturally from for heresy's ethics or something?

(therefore there is no accountability for our actions) and we are an
accidental coming together of molecules on an insignificant planet
near a minor star in just another galaxy (life has no purpose). It
doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize the volatility of the
mixture. Combining licentiousness with purposelessness for the
disturbed mind is like touching an open flame to gasoline. In his
Science editorial, Pastor Gould wrote, "Evolution liberates the human
spirit." With no accountability for our actions, evolution liberates
the totalitarian, the despot, the "dog-eat-dog" capitalist, the child
molester, and others who find their liberties in exploiting the weak.

I've seen more religious despots than I have scientific ones. Even those
despots who SAID they were atheists were not too good at getting the
science right.

Officials charged with explaining the "why" of the recent high school
mass killings have been troubled by the "where" the killings took
place. The "Law of the Old West" tends to reign in the black
communities and ghettos of the inner cities where students arm
themselves for protection, but these murders occurred in the sanitized
education factories of prosperous white suburbs.

And were perpetrated by the children of affluent white people, many of
them Protestant, who just did not have enough time for their children
because they were so busy "making it" in the materialist world of
Protestant America. I'm not impressed with your argument. It is
fallacious from the base up.

The perpetrators were troubled, yes, but bright-that is, bright enough
to make the connect. If there is no purpose, if there is no
accountability, if there is no way out of the pain and emptiness of
life, then why not maximize the license and exit in a towering ball of
flame. The Littleton killers committed suicide. A Gallup poll of
teenagers who had considered or tried to commit suicide found that
almost half (41 percent) cited depression or feeling worthless as the
reason.

Duh?!? These are children who tried suicide. I wonder how many of them
felt worthless because their parents kept telling them what "sinners"
they are?

After having smeared our television screens with his heinous murders,
Atlanta's Mark Barton allowed police to corner him and then committed
his "coup de grace." Barton left behind letters describing the
unbearable pain in his life and his utter hopelessness. Memories of
Milwaukee serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer, who not only killed but ate
his victims, are now fading. However, in a Dateline NBC program that
aired in 1994, Dahmer's father had this to say. "If you don't-if a
person doesn't think that there is a God to be accountable to,
then-then what's-what's the point of-of trying to modify your behavior
to keep it within acceptable ranges? That's how I thought anyway. I

I dunno. MOST of us keep our behaviour within acceptable ranges because
we are aware of what society will tolerate. SOME of you religious
heretics may possibly be right. Without some giant thunder-god looking
over your shoulder you would probably act out the evil in your hearts.
But then that's because you have yet to discover Christianity. You only
play at it, pretending to be righteous for the sake of peer approbation.

always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just
came from the slime. When we-when we died, you know, that was it,
there is nothing....." Men hunt and kill animals for food. If the
younger Dahmer had followed his father's footsteps and had convinced
himself that man is just another animal then what's wrong with hunting
and killing men for food?

Since evolution (as science) has NOTHING to say about the human soul,
what is your point?

Stephen Gould claims Darwinism would "liberate the human spirit."
Historically, the survival of the fittest message of Darwinism has
provided rationale for some of the most outrageously uncivilized
actions by "liberated believers." One notorious practitioner of

But so has Christianity provided the rationale for some of the most
outrageously uncivilized actions by "true believers." I don't think you
can judge a science by the people who use it as an excuse for their
acting out, any more than you can judge a religion on the same basis.

Darwinism wrote, "He who would live must fight; he who does not wish
to fight in this world where permanent struggle is the law of life,
has not the right to exist." His book was Mein Kampf; his name was
Adolf Hitler. Both Lenin and Stalin praised Darwin for liberating them

And Hitler claimed to be Christian and doing God's work. He was hardly
much of a Darwinist. Stalin actually promoted Lysenkoism, which is
contrary to Darwinism. You see Darwin's theory did not fit party
doctrine, which claimed that evolution could be forced to occur in
individual specimens.

from encumbering theology. Karl Marx wished to dedicate his book to
Darwin. Darwinian philosophy has been foundational for moving abortion
from crime to respectability. It is estimated that in this century
somewhere between 100 million and 150 million human beings have met
with untimely death at the hands of those who appealed to Darwin in
some manner to justify their actions.

This is all really just one long argumentum ad hominem fallacy. It does
not matter how many evil men accepted Darwin's scientific ideas. What
matters is whether they are correct and fit the evidence or not. They
are and those who say they are not are usually either deluded or lying
(or both).

Darwinists of the first half century openly taught that blacks were
being selected out of the human race. In that view, the infamous

And Henry Morris, the founder of the modern Morrisite heresy taught that
they were under the "curse of Ham" or some such.

Tuskegee Experiment made sense. Darwinists taught that women were
inferior to men since men were competing with animals and each other
while women were staying home with children. The killers and bigots of
the first half century have been replaced by the killers and bigots of
the last half century. The players are different but the script is the
same.

I have no idea which scientist actually taught this. You have given no
cites whatever. Nor have I seen any science that actually teaches this.
It certainly wasn't in my biology text in the 60's which was almost
exclusively about evolution.

There may be other reasons for Stephen Gould's apparently reckless
attack on religion in his Science editorial. A contributing factor
could be a growing conservatism among an aging population. Perhaps the
prospect of a Republican president serving with a Republican congress
could embolden constitutional challenges with efforts to require
Darwinists to produce their evidence in a forum subject to cross
examination.

Every time creationists have gotten their case into court they have lost,
sometimes despite the advantage of being able to perjure themselves with
relative impunity because they know that no judge wants to enforce the
law against them for fear of political backlash. They lose because in
court the rules are different from the kind of public show-debates that
creationists excel at and they are not as one-sided as a book of lies and
sophistry can be.

This brings us back to the Kansas Board of Education decision.
According to a knowledgeable source, the chairwoman of the Board
requested evidence in support of macro-evolution. What she basically
got in reply was, "We´re the experts, and that will have to do."

I rather suspect this is a lie, since there is quite reasonable evidence
in support (depending, of course, on what you want to call macro-
evolution). But speciations have been observed and we have strong
genetic evidence linking ever larger parts of the phylogenetic tree now
that genomes are being sequenced fairly rapidly.

After the media propaganda guns have silenced and we have opportunity
to reflect on the issues, we may discover that the Kansas folks have
much to teach us. There is little reason to teach as revealed truth an
ideology for which vast amounts of supporting evidence are claimed but
seldom produced, especially when that ideology is at the root of much
destructive behavior.

If I TRULY apply this criterion, then there is NO reason to teach
creationism of any kind, either YEC or ID. Because their "evidence" is
mostly misrepresentation, falsehood and sophistry. Now misrepresentation
and falsehood can legitimately be corrected in class, but sophistry is
subtle and we are over-exposed to it due mainly to television commercials
and other advertising, designed to bypass our rational thinking
processes.


Regarding macro-evolution, Darwinists have little to show for 140
years of research by thousands of scientists spending millions of
dollars of research money. If macro-evolution eventually is proven as

This is just a flat lie.

the mechanism for the origin and dispersal of life, the Kansas Board

Macro-evolution (speciation) has been observed. It has nothing to do
with the origin of life, which is the subject of a branch of
biochemistry.

of Education and similar educational institutions will have to face
the realities. Until the supporting evidence is in, educators have the
right to defer accepting the theory-and teaching it, unless evolution
is taught along with scientific data that refutes it. The message from
the agricultural heartland is, "We don't buy the milk before the cows
come home."

I suppose, since astronomers do not know what causes gravity or how it
originates, that we should not teach universal gravitation either. Or
maybe you would settle for equal time for the invisible elf theory of
gravity which, though as scientific as "creation science" is not really
SCIENTIFIC in the proper sense of the word.
Now, did you have anything other than a sophistic rant against good
science and honest scientists to offer? Or were you just practicing your
fibs for the next conclave of your fellow heretics?
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
.

User: "Tom"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 06 Mar 2004 07:33:51 PM
"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-rLu2c.774$QY1.63050@news.uswest.net...

High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion
© Gary L. Achtemeier, Ph.D.
All Rights Reserved. Used by permission. [Last Modified: 10 March 2002]

<snip lying crap>
Tom: What's wrong Painful, can't speak in your own words?
.
User: "The Church of The Painful Truth"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 06 Mar 2004 07:37:35 PM
"Tom" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:104kv03b4dnd5d2@corp.supernews.com...


"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com> wrote in

message

news:nospam-rLu2c.774$QY1.63050@news.uswest.net...

High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion
© Gary L. Achtemeier, Ph.D.
All Rights Reserved. Used by permission. [Last Modified: 10 March

2002]

<snip lying crap>
Tom: What's wrong Painful, can't speak in your own words?

Whats wrong monkey,can't understand and digest veritas+
.
User: "Tom"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 06 Mar 2004 07:42:43 PM
"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com> wrote in message
news:x1v2c.782$QY1.63934@news.uswest.net...


"Tom" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:104kv03b4dnd5d2@corp.supernews.com...


"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com> wrote in

message

news:nospam-rLu2c.774$QY1.63050@news.uswest.net...

High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion
© Gary L. Achtemeier, Ph.D.
All Rights Reserved. Used by permission. [Last Modified: 10 March

2002]

<snip lying crap>
Tom: What's wrong Painful, can't speak in your own words?

Whats wrong monkey,can't understand and digest veritas+

Tom: Nope, just waiting for the parrot to speak with his own brain. Oh,
that's right your ***** and brain occupy the same space according to one
member of this ND. I would have to say that I agree with his assessment
:-))))).
.
User: "The Church of The Painful Truth"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 06 Mar 2004 07:45:43 PM
"Tom" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:104kvgm4nie3k44@corp.supernews.com...


"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com> wrote in

message

news:x1v2c.782$QY1.63934@news.uswest.net...


"Tom" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:104kv03b4dnd5d2@corp.supernews.com...


"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com> wrote in

message

news:nospam-rLu2c.774$QY1.63050@news.uswest.net...

High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion
© Gary L. Achtemeier, Ph.D.
All Rights Reserved. Used by permission. [Last Modified: 10 March

2002]

<snip lying crap>
Tom: What's wrong Painful, can't speak in your own words?

Whats wrong monkey,can't understand and digest veritas+


Tom: Nope, just waiting for the parrot to speak with his own brain. Oh,
that's right your ***** and brain occupy the same space according to one
member of this ND. I would have to say that I agree with his assessment
:-))))).

+:-))))))))))))))))You talk about meltdowns all the time here, you and your
little bawlhall monkeys, the bottom line monkey is that all of you have been
taking potshots and nothings working.+
.
User: "Vic Sagerquist"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 06 Mar 2004 08:51:01 PM
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach The Church of The Painful Truth:

+:-))))))))))))))))You talk about meltdowns all the time here, you and
your little bawlhall monkeys, the bottom line monkey is that all of
you have been taking potshots and nothings working.+

Christer mentality defined:
Copy and paste some copyrighted diatribe that to fellow christers is
convincingly scientific proof of god, then when it is easily shot down by
a superior intellect, whine and cry like a baby, firing off aimless
insults and ad-hom attacks.
KKKrutch, if your "proof" is so convincing, why haven't you gained a
single convert from alt.atheism?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Plonked by Angelicusrex 2/24/04
______________
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God".
The wise man announces it to the world.
.
User: "The Church of The Painful Truth"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 06 Mar 2004 10:12:58 PM
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94A4BFD8F92EBvicman@204.127.204.17...

One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach The Church of The Painful Truth:


+:-))))))))))))))))You talk about meltdowns all the time here, you and
your little bawlhall monkeys, the bottom line monkey is that all of
you have been taking potshots and nothings working.+


Christer mentality defined:

Copy and paste some copyrighted diatribe that to fellow christers is
convincingly scientific proof of god, then when it is easily shot down by
a superior intellect,

+Superior Intellect = Anonymous authority cited = inferior statement+
whine and cry like a baby, firing off aimless

insults and ad-hom attacks.

+That is the atheist description and not the theists+

KKKrutch, if your "proof" is so convincing, why haven't you gained a
single convert from alt.atheism?

+Which converts are the ones that you imagine that I am trying to convert--I
am not attempting to *convert anyone* to *anything*.Another point lost in an
endless stream of point supporting your position+

--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011

Plonked by Angelicusrex 2/24/04
______________

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God".
The wise man announces GOD to the world.

.
User: "Vic Sagerquist"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 06 Mar 2004 11:28:01 PM
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach The Church of The Painful Truth:

+Which converts are the ones that you imagine that I am trying to
convert--I am not attempting to *convert anyone* to *anything*.Another
point lost in an endless stream of point supporting your position+

Then why are you here? To gloat your smarmy copy&paste intelligence? Go
away little troll.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Plonked by Angelicusrex 2/24/04
______________
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God".
The wise man announces it to the world.
.
User: "The Church of The Painful Truth"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 07 Mar 2004 03:57:59 PM
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94A4DA77441ADvicman@216.148.227.77...

One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach The Church of The Painful Truth:

+Which converts are the ones that you imagine that I am trying to
convert--I am not attempting to *convert anyone* to *anything*.Another
point lost in an endless stream of point supporting your position+


Then why are you here? To gloat your smarmy copy&paste intelligence? Go
away little troll.

--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011

Plonked by Angelicusrex 2/24/04
______________

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God".
The wise man announces GOD to the world.

+When atheists stop trolling and threatening Christians,then I will leave--I
am sort of here to give you simpletons a dose of your own medication+
+Hate that doncha+
.
User: "Tom"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 07 Mar 2004 04:20:57 PM
"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com> wrote in message
news:GVM2c.42$2J5.39489@news.uswest.net...


"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94A4DA77441ADvicman@216.148.227.77...

One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach The Church of The Painful Truth:

+Which converts are the ones that you imagine that I am trying to
convert--I am not attempting to *convert anyone* to *anything*.Another
point lost in an endless stream of point supporting your position+


Then why are you here? To gloat your smarmy copy&paste intelligence?

Go

away little troll.

--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011

Plonked by Angelicusrex 2/24/04
______________

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God".
The wise man announces GOD to the world.


Painful: +When atheists stop trolling and threatening Christians,then I

will leave--I

am sort of here to give you simpletons a dose of your own medication+
+Hate that doncha+

Tom: Nope, every time yuo post the folks get to see just how stupid you are.
You, as a Christian, are the best thing going for an atheist. How does it
feel to be your opponent's best weapon :-)????
.
User: "The Church of The Painful Truth"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 07 Mar 2004 05:10:59 PM
"Tom" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:104n82eaou4k4c3@corp.supernews.com...


"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com> wrote in

message

news:GVM2c.42$2J5.39489@news.uswest.net...


"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94A4DA77441ADvicman@216.148.227.77...

One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach The Church of The Painful Truth:

+Which converts are the ones that you imagine that I am trying to
convert--I am not attempting to *convert anyone* to

*anything*.Another

point lost in an endless stream of point supporting your position+


Then why are you here? To gloat your smarmy copy&paste intelligence?

Go

away little troll.

--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011

Plonked by Angelicusrex 2/24/04
______________

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God".
The wise man announces GOD to the world.


Painful: +When atheists stop trolling and threatening Christians,then I

will leave--I

am sort of here to give you simpletons a dose of your own medication+
+Hate that doncha+


Tom: Nope, every time yuo post the folks get to see just how stupid you

are.

You, as a Christian, are the best thing going for an atheist. How does it
feel to be your opponent's best weapon :-)????

Everytime *I* post, I expose the atheists for what they are, a group of
mindless babbling,dribbling monkeys that chatter amongst themselves in a
language only other monkeys can understand,now don't get me wrong I like
monkeys,but I would rather see them back in their natural habitat in the
jungle rather than cyberspace+
.





User: "M C"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 07 Mar 2004 01:33:24 AM
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94A4BFD8F92EBvicman@204.127.204.17...

One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach The Church of The Painful Truth:


+:-))))))))))))))))You talk about meltdowns all the time here, you and
your little bawlhall monkeys, the bottom line monkey is that all of
you have been taking potshots and nothings working.+


Christer mentality defined:

Copy and paste some copyrighted diatribe that to fellow christers is
convincingly scientific proof of god, then when it is easily shot down by
a superior intellect, whine and cry like a baby, firing off aimless
insults and ad-hom attacks.

KKKrutch, if your "proof" is so convincing, why haven't you gained a
single convert from alt.atheism?

--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011

It's the usless itiot spammers mentality. Go look at
alt.religion.islam.arabic to see some professional, insane spammers at work.
They make Painful Liar look lazy.
.




User: "Thore Schmechtig"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 07 Mar 2004 03:39:09 AM

High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion
© Gary L. Achtemeier, Ph.D.

<snip lying crap>
Tom: What's wrong Painful, can't speak in your own words?

Whats wrong monkey,can't understand and digest veritas+

Ah, typical "evidence" from the church of prideful ignorance ;)
--
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A (CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALIST
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of
gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists
say that people evolved from other life forms, but you
have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were
created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem
believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the
"atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even
flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all
the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the
elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" --
including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and
Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have
no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated
Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed,
came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little
loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth
(4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with
believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting
in their tents and guessing that Earth is a couple of
generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet
with the exception of those who share your beliefs --
though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend
Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet
consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and
physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot
rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be
all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it
comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be
evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and
agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church
history - but still call yourself a Christian.
.
User: "The Church of The Painful Truth"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 07 Mar 2004 03:58:57 PM
"Thore Schmechtig" <WRITETOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote in message
news:c2eqkc$1rv2eu$1@ID-87341.news.uni-berlin.de...

High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion
© Gary L. Achtemeier, Ph.D.

<snip lying crap>
Tom: What's wrong Painful, can't speak in your own words?

Whats wrong monkey,can't understand and digest veritas+


Ah, typical "evidence" from the church of prideful ignorance ;)



--
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A (CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALIST

(Snip)
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A ATHEIST
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of the only god claimed and supported
by the only true religion, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of atheism.
9 - You feel enlightened and "humanized" when scientists say that people
evolved from other life forms, but youhave a huge problem with the Biblical
claim that we were created by GOD.
8 - You laugh at theists, but you have no problem believing in in order out
of chaos.
7 - you don't flinch when hearing about how atheists slaughtered all the
babies of China and Russia in the
history books and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in
Cambodia and other countries including
women and children!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about
gods sleeping with women, and you laugh and villify
people believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth
to a man-god who was crucified for our sins,came back to life and then
ascended into heaven.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the
scientifically established age of Earth, and you find everything wrong with
believing dates recorded by Bronze Age scientists sitting in their homes
and stating the age of the earth.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet have no souls
including those in all rival sects of secular humanism- and will
spend Eternity in blackness and devoid of any purpose.
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed
to convince you otherwise, some idiot out to save his
paycheck and tenurerolling around on the floor speaking like a talking
monkey gloriying evilution may be
all the evidence you need to "prove" Atheism.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to atheist
evidence for no God.
You consider that to be evidence that atheism works. And you
think that the remaining 99.99% SUCCESS was simply chance.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many theists and agnostics do about
the Bible, Christianity, and church
history - but still call yourself an atheist.
.




User: "Jim"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 06 Mar 2004 11:10:57 PM
"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-rLu2c.774$QY1.63050@news.uswest.net...

Though secular in perspective (Darwinists claim the natural world is all
there is), Darwinism nevertheless functions much like a religion.

Darwinists

have their own creation story (macro-evolution),

Why wouldn't those who study the processes of life develop a theory of who
it came to be? You are saying that Darwinists are not real scientists, so
tell us: what would *real* scientitsts do? Would they not develop
hypotheses, test these against empirical evidence and develop theories from
them? Is that the way they can keep from being called "high priests" of a
religion? Are you a moron? (that was rhetorical - of course you are).

their own creed (the
Humanist Manifesto), their own "messiah figures" (those who come claiming,
"Come, follow us. We know the ways of life."),

*****.

their own clergy (those whose
task it is to preach the "truth" as revealed by the high priests), and

their

own priesthood (those who pass down to the masses their latest ruminations
in naturalistic thought).

Again, what do you think that *real* scientists should do? Should they
ignore the findings of their research since an imbecile like you might not
like hearing that a supernatural ghost did not creat the tsetse fly?

One of the "high priests" of evolution is Harvard professor of zoology,
Stephen Jay Gould.

You article is quite dated since it mentions Gould in the present tense.
May 20, 2002: Stephen Jay Gould, Harvard's outspoken and often
controversial paleontologist whose groundbreaking work on evolutionary
theory - coupled with his award-winning writings - brought an expanded world
of science to thousands of readers, died this morning in Manhattan of
metastasized lung cancer. He was 60.

Like other leaders of the Darwinian faith, Gould has
taken special pains to assure the masses that evolution is only about
science,

True

that science and religion function in two separate domains, and

True

that there should be no conflict between the two-as long as religion stays
within its proper realm. Problems arise only when Christian

fundamentalists,

who don't understand science, try to make science fit their personal
theologies. Writing in the August 21 issue of Time Magazine, Gould
reasserted this doctrine: "No scientific theory, including evolution, can
pose any threat to religion-for these two great tools of human

understanding

operate in complementary (not contrary) fashion in their totally separate
realms: science as an inquiry about the factual state of the natural

world,

religion as a search for spiritual meaning and ethical values."

Many religious leaders have bought the ruse. However, as is so often the
case, those with the most the lose are usually the ones who take the

effort

to become the best informed. Conservative Christians have discovered that
while science may be neutral on religious issues, Darwinism is not. The

real

conflict is between two equally religious belief systems.

Another lie.

Darwinists,
however, with assistance from misguided media, have been astonishingly
successful at painting the issue as one of a small group of ignorant
fundamentalists pitting their outdated biblical myths against the studied
results of empirical science.

It was not difficult to do, since it is the truth.

Thus, by making it appear to be nonreligious,
Darwinism can appear to be no threat to religion and by making it appear

to

most churchgoers that there exists no conflict between Christianity and
evolution, Darwinists have effectively mollified the opposition and have
been free to rob the store.

There is a conflict if Christianity preaches that the story of Genesis is
literally true. Most Christians and most churches within Chrisitanity do
not buy that fairy tale. They believe that evolution did, in fact, happen
and is continuing.

The perpetrators were troubled, yes, but bright-that is, bright enough to
make the connect. If there is no purpose, if there is no accountability,

if

there is no way out of the pain and emptiness of life, then why not

maximize

the license and exit in a towering ball of flame. The Littleton killers
committed suicide. A Gallup poll of teenagers who had considered or tried

to

commit suicide found that almost half (41 percent) cited depression or
feeling worthless as the reason.

But if they read the Bible, they would never have had such thoughts. Or
were there Bible readers in the study? You have provided no information
about this question.

After having smeared our television screens with his heinous murders,
Atlanta's Mark Barton allowed police to corner him and then committed his
"coup de grace." Barton left behind letters describing the unbearable pain
in his life and his utter hopelessness. Memories of Milwaukee serial

killer

Jeffrey Dahmer, who not only killed but ate his victims, are now fading.
However, in a Dateline NBC program that aired in 1994, Dahmer's father had
this to say. "If you don't-if a person doesn't think that there is a God

to

be accountable to, then-then what's-what's the point of-of trying to

modify

your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?

Because that is what thinking humans do. There are people who believe in
God who fly planes into buildings - they believe that they are accountable
to God and that they will be rewarded for such killings.

Regarding macro-evolution, Darwinists have little to show for 140 years of
research by thousands of scientists spending millions of dollars of

research

money. If macro-evolution eventually is proven as the mechanism for the
origin and dispersal of life, the Kansas Board of Education and similar
educational institutions will have to face the realities. Until the
supporting evidence is in, educators have the right to defer accepting the
theory-and teaching it, unless evolution is taught along with scientific
data that refutes it.

Like a supernatural ghost, infinitely superior to us in every way, created
us so that we would worship Him, and would damn us for eternity for not
believing in Him. He makes himself invisible, speaks through burning bushes
(though not recently), decides to have his son tortured and murdered in
order to forgive us (he may be omnipotent, but he cannot forgive us unless a
man is badly treated and murdered for a crime he did not commit). A
rational God, born of a virgin. His son fed 5,000 people with two fish and
a few loaves of bread (this actually happened, but everyone got a teeeeny
little piece)!
Oh yes, three days after he died, he rose again and appeared before his
disciples. He did not appear before the Romans (who would probably have
converted), the Jews, or the publishers of the Jerusalem Gazette; the
sightings of his true believers should be enough for us (as is the case with
Elvis, recently sighted in a Dennys in Hoboken).
This is a good substitute for science and it would make a good movied to
boot.

The message from the agricultural heartland is, "We
don't buy the milk before the cows come home."

But when the cows get home, you spread their ***** here.
.

User: "Family Man"

Title: Re: High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion 06 Mar 2004 07:35:15 PM
That's the solution. Bury your head in the sand and keep the kids stupid.
Don't christians feel bad about lying to their kids?
"The Church of The Painful Truth" <Nospam@Nomarketing.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-rLu2c.774$QY1.63050@news.uswest.net...

High Priest of Evolution Reveals His Religion
© Gary L. Achtemeier, Ph.D.
All Rights Reserved. Used by permission. [Last Modified: 10 March 2002]

n Wednesday, August 11, 1999, the Kansas Board of Education adopted new
science standards for statewide testing of students that no longer require
knowledge of evolution as a way to describe the emergence of new

species-for

instance the evolution of primates into Homo sapiens

(macro-evolution)-while

requiring knowledge of "micro-evolution," changes that occur within a

single

species. The decision gives a mild snub to the theory of evolution

credited

to Charles Darwin. Apparently the Board decided that 140 years of research
involving thousands of scientists spending millions of dollars had failed

to

produce sufficient evidence to confirm the theory.

Scientists, professionals, and academics appealed to the Board on behalf

of

modern science that removing an important concept like evolution from life
sciences and biology would intellectually cripple students. Nothing in
biology, it was claimed, makes sense except in light of evolution. On the
other side were mostly parents who were concerned with what their children
were being taught.

As soon as the decision was cast, the propaganda war began. Darwinists

have

discovered that the best way to silence those who question evolution is to
marginalize them through ridicule and character assassination. They
characterized those who supported the new guidelines, including parents,

as

bible-thumping fundamentalists, dangerous pseudo-scientists, flat

earthers,

etc. Unfortunately, much of the stereotyping was done by journalists who

did

not stop for an instant to find out what the issues were, who the parties
were or what they believed. The Chicago Tribune chanted, "intellectual
chicanery." The Boston Globe saw "evolving creationist" fundamentalists.

The

Washington Post decried "literal belief in biblical creation stories."

The issues discussed at Kansas, however, go beyond disagreements with

church

doctrines to concern for the safety of children. After the Littleton
massacre, parents testifying before a congressional subcommittee on the
matter claimed that removal from the classroom of prayer, the Ten
Commandments, and other biblical teachings on human behavior created a
climate favorable for murderous behavior. That may be true, but I believe

it

is not the whole story. The congressional testimony did not adequately
explore the thought systems that have replaced the abolished biblical
doctrines.

Science, real science-the work that ferrets out empirical facts about the
nature that surrounds us-has been co-opted by an ancient
philosophical/religious doctrine the origins of which can be traced back

to

at least 400-700 years before Christ. Known today variously as scientism,
evolutionism, metaphysical naturalism, and Darwinism, this doctrine has

been

so effectively interlaced with science that it is often difficult for the
scientist, much less the layperson, to separate the two.

Though secular in perspective (Darwinists claim the natural world is all
there is), Darwinism nevertheless functions much like a religion.

Darwinists

have their own creation story (macro-evolution), their own creed (the
Humanist Manifesto), their own "messiah figures" (those who come claiming,
"Come, follow us. We know the ways of life."), their own clergy (those

whose

task it is to preach the "truth" as revealed by the high priests), and

their

own priesthood (those who pass down to the masses their latest ruminations
in naturalistic thought).

One of the "high priests" of evolution is Harvard professor of zoology,
Stephen Jay Gould. Like other leaders of the Darwinian faith, Gould has
taken special pains to assure the masses that evolution is only about
science, that science and religion function in two separate domains, and
that there should be no conflict between the two-as long as religion stays
within its proper realm. Problems arise only when Christian

fundamentalists,

who don't understand science, try to make science fit their personal
theologies. Writing in the August 21 issue of Time Magazine, Gould
reasserted this doctrine: "No scientific theory, including evolution, can
pose any threat to religion-for these two great tools of human

understanding

operate in complementary (not contrary) fashion in their totally separate
realms: science as an inquiry about the factual state of the natural

world,

religion as a search for spiritual meaning and ethical values."

Many religious leaders have bought the ruse. However, as is so often the
case, those with the most the lose are usually the ones who take the

effort

to become the best informed. Conservative Christians have discovered that
while science may be neutral on religious issues, Darwinism is not. The

real

conflict is between two equally religious belief systems. Darwinists,
however, with assistance from misguided media, have been astonishingly
successful at painting the issue as one of a small group of ignorant
fundamentalists pitting their outdated biblical myths against the studied
results of empirical science. Thus, by making it appear to be

nonreligious,

Darwinism can appear to be no threat to religion and by making it appear

to

most churchgoers that there exists no conflict between Christianity and
evolution, Darwinists have effectively mollified the opposition and have
been free to rob the store.

Though the date of the Kansas Board of Education's rather insignificant
decision still rings loudly through the propaganda mills of the media,
another date, June 25, 1999, will eventually ring louder, I believe.

Writing

an editorial in the magazine Science, the frontispiece of the prestigious
National Association for the Advancement of Science, Stephen Jay Gould
launched a direct attack on religion thereby exposing the true religious
nature of Darwinism. After quoting Psalm 8 "Thou has made him a little

lower

than the angels...thou madest him to have dominion...thou has put all

things

under his feet." Gould went on to state, "Darwin removed this keystone of
false comfort more than a century ago, but many people still believe that
they cannot navigate this vale of tears without such a crutch." Ending the
article, Gould admonished his readers, "Let us praise this evolutionary
nexus, a far more stately mansion for the human soul than any pretty or
parochial comfort ever conjured by our swollen neurology to obscure the
source of our physical being, or to deny the natural substrate for our
separate and complementary spiritual quest."

Here Gould has gone much farther than the occasional witty jabs of fellow
high priest, Richard Dawkins ("Evolution has made it possible to be an
intellectually fulfilled atheist") or the late Carl Sagan, who, writing in
the introduction of Stephen Hawkings book, A Brief History of Time,

claimed

naturalistic evolution leaves "nothing for a creator to do." Gould has
proposed to substitute for Christianity and other religions, "a far more
stately mansion for the human soul...."

The question that confronts us and is the focus of the remainder of this
essay is: Why did Professor Gould choose this hour to break with

Darwinism's

tenuous accommodation with religion? Why did Gould abandon a successful
strategy that has allowed Darwinists to co-opt America's educational
institutions while good people slept? Gould is a master tactician and

surely

the timing and wording of his editorial were not accidental. Furthermore,
from letters to the editor of Science, the immediate reaction of

scientists

to his epiphany was outrage. What does Gould hope to gain by what amounts

to

an open admission of the religious foundation of Darwinism, a betrayal of

a

secret that has been well-kept for decades?

One reason why Gould may have departed from the ruse of accommodation with
religion is Darwinists' perceived loss of control of the scientific and
educational world. Three events have come together lately to make this
possible. First, deep from within the biological sciences there has arisen

a

group of scientists who are promoting intelligent design (ID), the concept
that a intelligent agency was involved in some stages of life's origin and
dispersal. Drawing from recent advances in molecular biology and

information

theory, the ID theorists have come to recognize that purely naturalistic
evolution cannot possibly explain every step in the emergence of living
organisms. The discovery of minimum irreducible complexity in

bio-molecular

structures utterly falsifies the foundational premise of Darwin's theory,
namely that biological organisms arise through gradual accumulation of

small

mutational changes. Furthermore, there is no known source of information
apart from intelligent design. Darwinists have been unable to imagine how
the immense information content of the highly specified DNA genetic code
might have arisen by chance, let alone design a scientific experiment and
collect data to explain it.

So far, the ID scientists have resisted attempts by Darwinists to silence
them. Vilification has not worked. Marginalization has not worked because
many of the IDers are biological scientists who actually do the research.
Attempts to stereotype them as fundamentalists seeking to promote biblical
creation stories, which may play well with the media and others

predisposed

to Darwinism, have served to radicalize the ID scientists.

Second, with the breakup of the iron curtain and the parting of the bamboo
curtain, the biological sciences are enjoying a global renaissance of

sorts.

Biological scientists in Asia, particularly China, do not hold blind
allegiance to Darwin as do their colleagues in the West. They seem

disposed

to requiring the theory to fit the data rather than making the data fit

the

theory. Hostilities with American Darwinists during a recent biological
conference held in China prompted one Chinese scientist to remark, "In

China

we can question Darwin but we can't question the government; in America,

you

can question the government but you can't question Darwin."

Third, though they nearly completely control educational institutions from
kindergarten through graduate school and virtually monopolize all forms of
the media, Darwinists have discovered through recent polls that fewer than
ten percent of Americans believe in the totally random, unsupervised,
impersonal, godless origin-of-life story promoted by the Darwinists. Many
more Americans believe in some form of evolution directed by a

supernatural

agency. Fully half of Americans don't believe in macro-evolution at all.
Seven of ten Americans think evolution should be taught along with the
scientific evidence that does not support evolution. Obviously attempts to
indoctrinate American school children into a Darwinistic view of life have
not been as successful as was hoped.

Another reason why professor Gould may have departed from the Darwinist

ruse

of accommodation with religion is a growing suspicion of the underlying
source of violence in our schools and our society. The lure of Darwinism

is

in its promise of unfettered licentiousness but its curse is
purposelessness. Darwinists claim there is no God (therefore there is no
accountability for our actions) and we are an accidental coming together

of

molecules on an insignificant planet near a minor star in just another
galaxy (life has no purpose). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to
recognize the volatility of the mixture. Combining licentiousness with
purposelessness for the disturbed mind is like touching an open flame to
gasoline. In his Science editorial, Pastor Gould wrote, "Evolution

liberates

the human spirit." With no accountability for our actions, evolution
liberates the totalitarian, the despot, the "dog-eat-dog" capitalist, the
child molester, and others who find their liberties in exploiting the

weak.


Officials charged with explaining the "why" of the recent high school mass
killings have been troubled by the "where" the killings took place. The

"Law

of the Old West" tends to reign in the black communities and ghettos of

the

inner cities where students arm themselves for protection, but these

murders

occurred in the sanitized education factories of prosperous white suburbs.

The perpetrators were troubled, yes, but bright-that is, bright enough to
make the connect. If there is no purpose, if there is no accountability,

if

there is no way out of the pain and emptiness of life, then why not

maximize

the license and exit in a towering ball of flame. The Littleton killers
committed suicide. A Gallup poll of teenagers who had considered or tried

to

commit suicide found that almost half (41 percent) cited depression or
feeling worthless as the reason.

After having smeared our television screens with his heinous murders,
Atlanta's Mark Barton allowed police to corner him and then committed his
"coup de grace." Barton left behind letters describing the unbearable pain
in his life and his utter hopelessness. Memories of Milwaukee serial

killer

Jeffrey Dahmer, who not only killed but ate his victims, are now fading.
However, in a Dateline NBC program that aired in 1994, Dahmer's father had
this to say. "If you don't-if a person doesn't think that there is a God

to

be accountable to, then-then what's-what's the point of-of trying to

modify

your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That's how I thought
anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all

just

came from the slime. When we-when we died, you know, that was it, there is
nothing....." Men hunt and kill anim