| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
| Date: |
09 Apr 2005 05:37:21 PM |
| Object: |
Hitler *is* a Mormon. |
This is just too funny. one religion getting upset about
another religion's made-up rituals that the first doesn't
believe in.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=65&u=/ap/20050408/ap_on_re_us/baptizing_the_dead
Thu Apr 7,10:35 PM ET U.S. National - AP
By MARK THIESSEN, Associated Press Writer
SALT LAKE CITY - Jewish leaders claim Mormons continue to posthumously
baptize Jews and Holocaust victims, and will confront church leaders
with a decade of frustration over what they call broken promises.
"We have proof, and we are bringing that," said Ernest Michel, chairman
of the New York-based World Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors.
The Mormon church has long collected names from government documents
and other records worldwide for posthumous baptisms. Church members
stand in for the deceased non-Mormons, a ritual the church says is
required for the dead to reach heaven. The church believes individuals'
ability to choose a religion continues beyond the grave.
[ROTFL]
Michel plans to show posthumous baptism records to church officials
in meetings Sunday and Monday. He says the records prove tens of
thousands of Jews, including some who died in Nazi concentration
camps, were posthumously baptized over the past 10 years and as
recently as last month.
A 1995 agreement signed by Jewish leaders and The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints called for an immediate halt to
unwanted proxy baptisms. After evidence was found in the church's
massive International Genealogical Index that the baptisms for many
Jews - including Anne Frank - continued, the two faiths reaffirmed t
he agreement in 2002.
Jewish leaders in New York have bitterly complained the baptisms
never stopped,
[ROTFL.]
and last year asked Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton
to intervene. She met with Sen. Orrin Hatch (news, bio, voting record),
an Utah Republican and active Mormon, though neither side would
discuss what was said.
The church, too, declined comment Thursday. "The church won't be
commenting at all on this issue for the moment. We are looking
forward to discussions with our Jewish guests," spokeswoman Kim
Farah said.
Under the Mormon practice, most Catholic popes have been proxy
baptized, as have historical figures like Ghengis Khan, Joan of
Arc, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Buddha, according to Helen
Radkey, an independent genealogical researcher in Salt Lake City.
[Wow! Hitler is now a Mormon!]
However, the church directed its members after 1995 to not
include for baptism the names of Jewish Holocaust victims,
celebrities and people who aren't relatives.
The church also assumes the closest living relative of the
deceased being offered for proxy baptism has consented.
Carol Skydell, also a researcher, said that didn't happen when
her paternal grandparents and aunt and uncle apparently were
given a baptism by proxy. She found their proxy baptism records in 2002.
"Nobody asked me, nobody asked my cousin. It's ridiculous,"
Skydell said.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Unbelievable. It's just too funny. Don't they see that
how highlights that religion is just childish superstition?
More of this should happen. It would make more
atheists.
--
rb #2187
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Hitler *is* a Mormon. |
24 Apr 2005 10:19:51 AM |
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DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
As for whether 'they all consented" or not, who knows? It is THEIR
choice. NOt yours, not ours. Look, it's very much like getting a personalized
coupon in the mail, one that only you can cash. You are under no obligation
at all to use it. It's just there if you want to take it to the store. THAT'S
what proxy baptism is, in our view.
What's the actual scenario that's pictured as far as the dead person
is concerned? They're wandering around up in heaven, or frying in
hell, and then one day after some mormon proxy baptizes them, a
messenger or angel comes to them asking if they wanna become a
mormon?
You want the truth or some snappy comeback?
I prefer the truth, but after reading it below, I'd like to see a
snappy comeback, just for the heck of it, if you don't mind... :)
The truth is, we do not believe any of those people are in hell. None of
'em. We believe they are with their families. Doing what they do.
Happy, as such? Or lost souls, since they aren't mormons?
And they have a chance to accept or reject the offer, as they choose.
What's the offer, exactly? Become a mormon, and get a galaxy or
universe to rule over?
It's exactly that simple.
Is it?
Whether you believe it, or think it's the rankest and silliest mythology on
the planet, it makes no difference; as far as insults go, it IS the intent
of the giver that counts. If there is no insult intended, then there is no
insult. Period.
It seems to me that you must believe that those religious people who
aren't mormons picked the wrong religion or sect or cult, and they're
missing out on something after they die, and you're giving 'em a
second chance to join your cult or religion. Still knocking on the
doors, trying to recruit new members even dead ones...
It doesn't make much sense for an atheist like me to get upset about
such a stupid ritual or belief, but I can see where it would upset
people of other religions who imagine their loved ones actually being
in their own version of heaven, and some mormons coming around, still
bugging them to convert to mormonism...
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Hitler *is* a Mormon. |
24 Apr 2005 10:23:41 AM |
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On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 12:04:07 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> drained his beer, leaned back in the
alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
As for whether 'they all consented" or not, who knows? It is THEIR choice.
NOt yours, not ours. Look, it's very much like getting a personalized coupon
in the mail, one that only you can cash. You are under no obligation at all
to use it. It's just there if you want to take it to the store. THAT'S what
proxy baptism is, in our view.
What's the actual scenario that's pictured as far as the dead person
is concerned? They're wandering around up in heaven, or frying in
hell, and then one day after some mormon proxy baptizes them, a
messenger or angel comes to them asking if they wanna become a
mormon?
Evidently! According to this zombie, dead people make decisions.
I wonder how many corpses have called the LDS to ask that they be
removed.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Ash" |
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| Title: Re: Hitler *is* a Mormon. |
11 Apr 2005 11:39:25 AM |
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Walter Bushell wrote:
In article <d3b3qr$5fk$2@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Ash <ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
Ron Baker, Pluralitas! wrote:
This is just too funny. one religion getting upset about
another religion's made-up rituals that the first doesn't
believe in.
snip mormons baptising the dead
I'm not sure what is more idiotic, doing it or complaining about it
Given Jewish history, where the Christians used baptism as a method of
persecution.
I don't think that excuses getting upset about this
.
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