Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in alt.atheism

Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:

DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism

This is hilarious from atheists, and it's just as funny from those who
are theists but not LDS. They get all upset because we do something
that they believe A: doesn't work, B: will get US sent to hell and C:
that
the people involved don't even have a clue that anything was done.

Yet more deliberately nasty misrepresentation of atheists from the
moronic moromon.

You seem to be upset by the whole proxy baptism thing, so how did
she misrepresent you?

Personally I couldn't care less if her cult wants to pretend to
baptise me, or if some other cult wants to stick pins into some voodoo
doll and pretend to banish me to hell. It doesn't affect me at all,
since I don't believe in such superstitious rubbish.

I mean, the only way a proxy baptism could affect anybody was if
we were RIGHT, yes? (shaking head) The whole reaction to it is stupid.

What part of IT IS EXTREMELY DISRESPECTFUL is she pretending
not to understand?

But then she imagines atheists have no rights at all when it comes to
the imposition of religion.

I'd certainly like to see the mormons spending their time doing
something more useful than baptizing dead people, but I don't really
see why you're making such a big deal of it, unless you actually might
believe that their proxy baptisms actually makes you a mormon or
something...

The actual ritual of proxy baptism is stupid in the first place.
Maybe it'll go away some day and people can spend that time
on more important things, eh?

It is inconsiderate and rude to the deceased's survivors.

Only if you believe in things like voodoo, which the proxy baptism
thing is akin to. Why let it bother you since it's just another
cultic superstitious ritual which doesn't really affect you in the
end?

Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in alt.atheism

Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:

DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism

This is hilarious from atheists, and it's just as funny from those who
are theists but not LDS. They get all upset because we do something
that they believe A: doesn't work, B: will get US sent to hell and C: that
the people involved don't even have a clue that anything was done.

Yet more deliberately nasty misrepresentation of atheists from the
moronic moromon.

You seem to be upset by the whole proxy baptism thing, so how did
she misrepresent you?

Personally I couldn't care less if her cult wants to pretend to
baptise me, or if some other cult wants to stick pins into some voodoo
doll and pretend to banish me to hell. It doesn't affect me at all,
since I don't believe in such superstitious rubbish.

I mean, the only way a proxy baptism could affect anybody was if
we were RIGHT, yes? (shaking head) The whole reaction to it is stupid.

What part of IT IS EXTREMELY DISRESPECTFUL is she pretending
not to understand?

But then she imagines atheists have no rights at all when it comes to
the imposition of religion.

I'd certainly like to see the mormons spending their time doing
something more useful than baptizing dead people, but I don't really
see why you're making such a big deal of it, unless you actually might
believe that their proxy baptisms actually makes you a mormon or
something...

The actual ritual of proxy baptism is stupid in the first place.
Maybe it'll go away some day and people can spend that time
on more important things, eh?

It is inconsiderate and rude to the deceased's survivors.

Only if you believe in things like voodoo, which the proxy baptism
thing is akin to. Why let it bother you since it's just another
cultic superstitious ritual which doesn't really affect you in the
end?

DianaC wrote:

"Del" <jfacts@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1114240215.706757.209530@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

<snip to>

Gee I wonder if "you people" would mind if the American
Communist party began making dead mormons honorary
communists.

Wouldn't worry me any, knock themselves out.

Yeah, you snipped the stuff that worried you.

(snip to end)

"To end"? There were only a few more lines! It
must be second nature for you people to evade
painful truths.

I went to your website, and found the following quote on it: "Baptism

is the

second ugliest word in the English language to a Jew," Mokotoff said.

"The

first is gassed. The third is raped."

Er, over-react much?

Hey, isn't this the Mormon position on child
molestation too?

Allow me to let you in on a little secret; Gassing and rape are done

without

the consent of the victims. Baptism, without the consent of the one

being

baptised, is a dunk in a pond, with no more meaning than a dunk in

the pond.

In OUR beliefs, that proxy baptism is only effective if the one for

whom it

is done wants it and accepts it.

That's what counts, you see. What Mormons
believe. To disagree is to be irrational or over react.

It is, therefore, THEIR choice. Of the two

of us, YOU are the one removing that choice from them, not us.

Nothing we

have done will affect your dead, even in OUR belief system, if your

loved

ones say 'no thanks'.

Unbelievable. Why do you act as if your ignorance
was a virtue? Why should they have to try to justify
their religious views to your ilk and get your
approval? They don't like it, period. For anyone
with average sensitivity that would be sufficient.

And you don't think it affects them at all.

Yes, it is so generous of Mormons to help Jews
correct the biggest mistake of their lives in being
Jewish and give them a chance to avoid hell by
becoming a member of the one true religion. Why
should their relatives mind that? How insensitive
to the feelings of Mormons!

What is happening here, eve n if you believe that what we do actually

means

anything, is that missionaries are knocking at their doors. That's

it. "Are

you interested? If you are, fine, if not, say so and we go away". If

even

WE do not think that these baptisms mean anything if those for whom

the work

is done don't actually, and actively, want it, what's YOUR beef with

it?

Yeah, justify it to Diana, damn it. If you can't--to
her satisfaction--then screw you.

Indeed, seems to me that if we are correct, and this stuff works,

that YOU

are the one who is committing the atrocity here;

And that is what is really important: what diana
thinks. We can never get very far away from that
fact of life, can we. And don't think for a minute
that her going on for multiple paragraphs is over
reacting (much).

YOU are removing your
relative's freedom to make their own choices.

You see how insensitive you are for not considering
what Diana believes? How dare you!

YOU are deciding for them.
Impertinent, don't you think?

What do you expect? He's a Jew. What do they know
about the one true religion? That's why they need
you Mormons to help them out.

If we are not correct, and nothing we do affects your loved ones one

way or

another, how is this action second only to gassing? WE ar e not

murdering

anyone, or taking their identities away, or indeed, doing anything at

all to

them. Certainly we are not doing anything that takes away their

freedom of

choice.

Geeze. Are you always this stupid or is this a
special occasion? It isn't about the dead, it is
about the living. It is about your laughably
(at this point) oblivious condescension and utter
inability to see things from anything other than
your provincial point of view. Clue: It doesn't matter
what you think. This isn't about what you think.
It should be enough that relatives are offended.
But obviously that isn't good enough for you.
Clue II: No one needs to justify their feelings to
you.

Rarely have I ever witnessed anyone as
narcissistic as you come across and that's
saying something.

When we (and the

other relatives) tried to get their na mes removed, the LDS fought

us.

http://www.juf.org/news_public_affairs/article.asp?key=4744

Goodie, Now would you try giving us a site that does NOT equate proxy

baptism with murder and rape? You know, something that is at least

somewhe re

in the real universe?

There you have it. Jews aren't justified in
their beliefs. Our resident religious expert
has decided.

360,000 Jews on your bloddy list. Without any permission from a
relative, without any concern for who these people were.

As far as I'm concern, the Mormoms are evil. The US Army should

have

turned i ts guns on them in the 1880s.

Well, they didn't. However, they DID do so in the 1840's and again in

the

1860's.

*****. However the greatest massacre of settlers
in the history of the West was perpertrated by
Mormons: the Mountain Medow Massacre. So
spare us your trumped up martyrdom.


Would that do? And how interesting it is that you think murdering

US is the appropriate response to some paperwork that you don't even

think

affected anybody. We didn't kill you, rape you, torture or gas you,

we have

not ever hated you. If there is All we did was do something stupid.

We

believed that those who died in the horrors of the war still had a

right to

make their own choices, and we offered them one. That's it.

That's all.

You poor, poor victims. I feel your pain.

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 17:53:55 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> drained his beer, leaned back in the
alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following

And how did the actions of people you think are wrong, in doing something
you firmly believe to be ineffective, take that away from them? Good
grief,
sir, even the Mormons that DID this don't believe that we removed their
Jewishness or diminished that in any way. It was certainly not done with
the
intent to disparage any of those who suffered in the Holocaust, or to
diminish their 'Jewishness' or to insult their remaining family members.
Indeed, it was, though ill-advised, an attempt by those who did this to
honor those who died. Now I understand completely that YOU think it's an
insult, but really, sir, by thinking so, aren't you stealing something?
Isn't taking something not offered a form of theft? No insult was meant.
At
all, by anybody.

They believed, and they were not given a choice! Do you not
understand why this is wrong? Religion is supposed to be a personal
thing, and you Mormon monsters take that away!

Do you have any concept about Jewish history? Do you understand in
the slightest what this act of your church meant?

Moromons accept Jesus as the Messiah. Jews don't. How the ***** can
you claim that entering deceased Jews into the Mormon rolls doesn't
take away their identities? In 500 years, what will someone looking
at the geneologies think?

I went to your website, and found the following quote on it: "Baptism is
the
second ugliest word in the English language to a Jew," Mokotoff said. "The
first is gassed. The third is raped."

Not my website, idiot. I linked to it.

Er, over-react much?

Have 4-6 million of your people murdered and see how you feel.

Allow me to let you in on a little secret; Gassing and rape are done
without
the consent of the victims. Baptism, without the consent of the one being
baptised, is a dunk in a pond, with no more meaning than a dunk in the
pond.
In OUR beliefs, that proxy baptism is only effective if the one for whom
it
is done wants it and accepts it. It is, therefore, THEIR choice. Of the
two
of us, YOU are the one removing that choice from them, not us. Nothing we
have done will affect your dead, even in OUR belief system, if your loved
ones say 'no thanks'.

So, why hasn't the LDS removed the 360,000 names of the Jews from
their rolls? Why is Hitler still on there? Are you trying to tell me
that they all consented?