| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"methodios" |
| Date: |
18 Dec 2003 12:12:07 PM |
| Object: |
Hitler's Religion |
"Hitler's Forgotten Library: The Man, His Books, and His Search for God"
is the title of an article in the Atlantic magazine by T. Ryback.
He writes, "You can tell a lot about a person from what he reads. The
surviving--and largely ignored--remnants of Adolph Hitler's personal
library reveal a deep but erractic interest in relgion and theology."
Well now, surely that explains what was wrong with Hitler, or does it?
Ryback quotes Hitler as saying, "Christianity is the worst thing that
ever happened to humanity. Bolshevism is the illegitimate child of
Christianity. Both are an outgrowth of the Jew." Ryback observes
"Hitler was the classic apostate. He rebelled against the established
theology in which he was born and bred, all the while seeking to fill
the resulting spiritual void."
Examining Hitler's notations in hundreds of books in his personal
library--most of which are now in the Library of Congress--reveal that
Hitler tried to fill the void with magic, the occult, and crackpot
proposals for new religions designed to displace Christianity. Ryback
concludes there is no doubt that Hitler believed in divine powers. "But
Hitler believed that the mortal and the divine were one and the same:
that the God he was seeking was in fact himself."
.
|
|
| User: "Lars Eighner" |
|
| Title: Re: Hitler's Religion |
18 Dec 2003 02:32:25 PM |
|
|
In our last episode,
<3FE1EDF7.BFD1796@pemtel.net>,
the lovely and talented methodios
broadcast on alt.atheism:
Examining Hitler's notations in hundreds of books in his personal
library--most of which are now in the Library of Congress--reveal that
Hitler tried to fill the void with magic, the occult, and crackpot
proposals for new religions designed to displace Christianity. Ryback
concludes there is no doubt that Hitler believed in divine powers. "But
Hitler believed that the mortal and the divine were one and the same:
that the God he was seeking was in fact himself."
Liar. Hitler was a professing catholic and christian his whole life.
--
Rev. Lars Eighner, ULC, Atheist #1965 http://www.io.com/~eighner
"He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized
there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there
wasn't an afterlife." --Douglas Adams
.
|
|
|
| User: "methodios" |
|
| Title: Re: Hitler's Religion |
18 Dec 2003 07:30:29 PM |
|
|
Lars Eighner wrote:
In our last episode,
<3FE1EDF7.BFD1796@pemtel.net>,
the lovely and talented methodios
broadcast on alt.atheism:
Examining Hitler's notations in hundreds of books in his personal
library--most of which are now in the Library of Congress--reveal that
Hitler tried to fill the void with magic, the occult, and crackpot
proposals for new religions designed to displace Christianity. Ryback
concludes there is no doubt that Hitler believed in divine powers. "But
Hitler believed that the mortal and the divine were one and the same:
that the God he was seeking was in fact himself."
Liar. Hitler was a professing catholic and christian his whole life.
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhitlerchristian.html
A few quotes from the Straight Dope site:
He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf, and he claimed
to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared
that "National Socialism [Nazism] and Christianity are irreconcilable"
and Hitler didn't squawk too much about it. Similarly, Hermann
Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, "One is either a Christian or a
German. You can't be both." In addition, Hitler declared Nazism the
state religion and the Bible was replaced by Mein Kampf in the schools.
First, let's look at what he said that seems to put him on the
anti-Christian side:
According to a press release from Catholic League President, William A.
Donohue (2/4/99): "Hitler was a neo-pagan terrorist whose conscience was
not informed by Christianity, but by pseudo-scientific racist
philosophies. Hitler hated the Catholic Church, made plans to kill the
Pope, authorized the murder of thousands of priests and nuns, and did
everything he could to suppress the influence of the Church. In 1933,
Hitler said, 'It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able
to destroy Christianity because there is in them a true religion rooted
in nature and blood.'" The Catholic League also quoted Hitler, in a
4/23/99 Op-Ed ad in the New York Times, as saying, "Antiquity was better
than modern times, because it didn't know Christianity and syphilis."
Jehuda Bauer, Professor of Holocaust Studies at Hebrew University in
Jerusalem, describes the real "god" of Hitler and the Nazis in his
article, "The Trauma of the Holocaust: Some Historical Perspectives," by
saying: ""They wanted to go back to a pagan world, beautiful,
naturalistic, where natural hierarchies based on the supremacy of the
strong would be established, because strong equaled good, powerful
equaled civilized. The world did have a kind of God, the merciless God
of nature, the brutal God of races, the oppressive God of hierarchies."
In other words, definitely non-Christian.
Historian Paul Johnson wrote that Hitler hated Christianity with a
passion, adding that shortly after assuming power in 1933, Hitler told
Hermann Rauschnig that he intended "to stamp out Christianity root and
branch."
It seems Hitler, like many modern-day politicians, spoke out of both
sides of his mouth. And when he didn't, his lackeys did. It may have
been political pandering, just like many of our current politicians who
invoke God's name to gain support.
Also, it seems probable that Hitler, being the great manipulator, knew
that he couldn't fight the Christian churches and their members right
off the bat. So he made statements to put the church at ease and may
have patronized religion as a way to prevent having to fight the
Christian-based church.
methodios
--
Rev. Lars Eighner, ULC, Atheist #1965 http://www.io.com/~eighner
"He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized
there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there
wasn't an afterlife." --Douglas Adams
.
|
|
|
| User: "BLUERHYMER" |
|
| Title: Re: Hitler's Religion |
19 Dec 2003 01:59:00 AM |
|
|
Subject: Re: Hitler's Religion
From: methodios
Date: 12/18/2003 8:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <3FE254B5.F8978EE2@pemtel.net>
Hitler was a professing catholic and christian his whole life.
It seems Hitler, like many modern-day politicians, spoke out of both
sides of his mouth. And when he didn't, his lackeys did. It may have
been political pandering, just like many of our current politicians who
invoke God's name to gain support.
Also, it seems probable that Hitler, being the great manipulator, knew
that he couldn't fight the Christian churches and their members right
off the bat. So he made statements to put the church at ease and may
have patronized religion as a way to prevent having to fight the
Christian-based church.
methodios
***************
In all probability Hitler was a non-believer, but like most politicians (and
Hitler was a master politician) he knew that he had to pretend that he was into
the superstition of religion.
He could not have become Chancellor without the approval and assistance of the
Catholic Church.
He himself was, as the poster said, a Catholic all of his life. At least
publically.
See:
Adolph Hitler: The Roman Church
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/gracebelievers/hitler_romancatholic.htm
Hitler's Pope:
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/hitlerspope.htm
Christianity in Europe During WWII
http://www.nobeliefs.com/ChurchesWWII.htm
Happy December
Bluerhymer
***********
.
|
|
|
| User: "methodios" |
|
| Title: Re: Hitler's Religion |
19 Dec 2003 09:08:04 AM |
|
|
BLUERHYMER wrote:
Subject: Re: Hitler's Religion
From: methodios
Date: 12/18/2003 8:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <3FE254B5.F8978EE2@pemtel.net>
Hitler was a professing catholic and christian his whole life.
It seems Hitler, like many modern-day politicians, spoke out of both
sides of his mouth. And when he didn't, his lackeys did. It may have
been political pandering, just like many of our current politicians who
invoke God's name to gain support.
Also, it seems probable that Hitler, being the great manipulator, knew
that he couldn't fight the Christian churches and their members right
off the bat. So he made statements to put the church at ease and may
have patronized religion as a way to prevent having to fight the
Christian-based church.
methodios
***************
In all probability Hitler was a non-believer, but like most politicians (and
Hitler was a master politician) he knew that he had to pretend that he was into
the superstition of religion.
He could not have become Chancellor without the approval and assistance of the
Catholic Church.
He himself was, as the poster said, a Catholic all of his life. At least
publically.
See:
Adolph Hitler: The Roman Church
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/gracebelievers/hitler_romancatholic.htm
Hitler's Pope:
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/hitlerspope.htm
Christianity in Europe During WWII
http://www.nobeliefs.com/ChurchesWWII.htm
Happy December
Bluerhymer
Thanks for the references. However, I think Jim Walker in Christianity
in Europe During WWII web site downplays the number of Christians who
assisted the Jews during the Holocaust. Sir Martin Gilbert, himself a
Jew and an acclaimed biographer of Winston Churchill, in his recent
book, "The Righteous: The Unsung Heroes of the Holocaust", makes
reference to the Yad Vashem memorial in Jerusalem where more than 20,000
Christian rescuers of Jews have been given the title of "Righteous Among
the Gentiles." These are people--mainly Catholics-- who risked their
lives to save Jews. He and other scholars believe the actual number of
rescuers is much higher. Many of the Righteous Gentiles were captured
and killed along with those they rescuing. He says, "It could well be
that half a million Jews saved is not an exaggerated figure." Pinchas
Lapide another Jewish scholar estimates the number of Jews rescued is
over 800,000.
methodios
***********
.
|
|
|
| User: "Yang" |
|
| Title: Re: Hitler's Religion |
19 Dec 2003 12:21:31 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:08:04 -0500, methodios <>
wrote:
BLUERHYMER wrote:
Subject: Re: Hitler's Religion
From: methodios
Date: 12/18/2003 8:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <3FE254B5.F8978EE2@pemtel.net>
Hitler was a professing catholic and christian his whole life.
It seems Hitler, like many modern-day politicians, spoke out of both
sides of his mouth. And when he didn't, his lackeys did. It may have
been political pandering, just like many of our current politicians who
invoke God's name to gain support.
Also, it seems probable that Hitler, being the great manipulator, knew
that he couldn't fight the Christian churches and their members right
off the bat. So he made statements to put the church at ease and may
have patronized religion as a way to prevent having to fight the
Christian-based church.
methodios
***************
In all probability Hitler was a non-believer, but like most politicians (and
Hitler was a master politician) he knew that he had to pretend that he was into
the superstition of religion.
He could not have become Chancellor without the approval and assistance of the
Catholic Church.
He himself was, as the poster said, a Catholic all of his life. At least
publically.
See:
Adolph Hitler: The Roman Church
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/gracebelievers/hitler_romancatholic.htm
Hitler's Pope:
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/hitlerspope.htm
Christianity in Europe During WWII
http://www.nobeliefs.com/ChurchesWWII.htm
Happy December
Bluerhymer
Thanks for the references. However, I think Jim Walker in Christianity
in Europe During WWII web site downplays the number of Christians who
assisted the Jews during the Holocaust. Sir Martin Gilbert, himself a
Jew and an acclaimed biographer of Winston Churchill, in his recent
book, "The Righteous: The Unsung Heroes of the Holocaust", makes
reference to the Yad Vashem memorial in Jerusalem where more than 20,000
Christian rescuers of Jews have been given the title of "Righteous Among
the Gentiles." These are people--mainly Catholics--
20 k out of 100 million. Whatever the personal religion of Hitler is,
his rank and file Nazi soldiers were Chrisians, who bought into
Hitler's antisemitism because their Christian churches taught them to
hate the Jews.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Socerey Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: -525 billion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -459 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
|
|
|
| User: "methodios" |
|
| Title: Re: Hitler's Religion |
19 Dec 2003 02:01:53 PM |
|
|
Yang wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:08:04 -0500, methodios <dgillesp@pemtel.net>
wrote:
Thanks for the references. However, I think Jim Walker in Christianity
in Europe During WWII web site downplays the number of Christians who
assisted the Jews during the Holocaust. Sir Martin Gilbert, himself a
Jew and an acclaimed biographer of Winston Churchill, in his recent
book, "The Righteous: The Unsung Heroes of the Holocaust", makes
reference to the Yad Vashem memorial in Jerusalem where more than 20,000
Christian rescuers of Jews have been given the title of "Righteous Among
the Gentiles." These are people--mainly Catholics--
20 k out of 100 million. Whatever the personal religion of Hitler is,
his rank and file Nazi soldiers were Chrisians, who bought into
Hitler's antisemitism because their Christian churches taught them to
hate the Jews.
Rather than churches teaching hate, I would say most (not all) churches
just looked the other way. "All that's necessary for the forces of evil
to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing." - Edmund
Burke. It was cowardice rather than hate. As Martin Niemoller
confessed, "In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't
speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and
I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade
unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then
they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to
speak up."
methodios
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Socerey Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: -525 billion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -459 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
|
|
|
| User: "Yang" |
|
| Title: Re: Hitler's Religion |
20 Dec 2003 12:03:22 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:01:53 -0500, methodios <dgillesp@pemtel.net>
wrote:
Yang wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:08:04 -0500, methodios <dgillesp@pemtel.net>
wrote:
Thanks for the references. However, I think Jim Walker in Christianity
in Europe During WWII web site downplays the number of Christians who
assisted the Jews during the Holocaust. Sir Martin Gilbert, himself a
Jew and an acclaimed biographer of Winston Churchill, in his recent
book, "The Righteous: The Unsung Heroes of the Holocaust", makes
reference to the Yad Vashem memorial in Jerusalem where more than 20,000
Christian rescuers of Jews have been given the title of "Righteous Among
the Gentiles." These are people--mainly Catholics--
20 k out of 100 million. Whatever the personal religion of Hitler is,
his rank and file Nazi soldiers were Chrisians, who bought into
Hitler's antisemitism because their Christian churches taught them to
hate the Jews.
Rather than churches teaching hate, I would say most (not all) churches
just looked the other way. "All that's necessary for the forces of evil
to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing." - Edmund
Burke. It was cowardice rather than hate. As Martin Niemoller
confessed, "In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't
speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and
I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade
unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then
they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to
speak up."
If that were true then the persecution of the Jews in Nazi Germany
would have been an isolated incident. Except that it was not. Many
forms of hate are not fueled by religion, this one happens to be one
of them, or as the Christian theologian Clark M williamson remarked:
"Arthur Gilbert estimates that fewer than twenty percent of Jews were
able to survive as Jews inn Christian Europe from the fourth century
to the twentieth. The other eighty percent were taken care of along
the way by forced baptism, expulsions, massacres, pogroms, and sundry
mib actions. The pressures on Jews were enormous: legal, political,
and economical disabilities: social isolation: separation and
ghettoization: the offering of harsh alternatives: baptism or exile,
baotism or death. Those who remained Jews and survuved as Jews have
given the most tremendous witness of fauth in human history, exceeded
only by those who died to sanctify the name of God. Meanwhile,
Christians have lost forever the credibility of their claim to a
superior religion and a superior ethic."
If you're going to discount the role of Christianity in the
perpetuation of antisemitism, then you also have to discount the role
of Islam in contemporary Arab terroisms.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Socerey Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: -525 billion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -459 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: Hitler's Religion |
18 Dec 2003 04:28:37 PM |
|
|
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Lars Eighner:
In our last episode,
<3FE1EDF7.BFD1796@pemtel.net>,
the lovely and talented methodios
broadcast on alt.atheism:
Examining Hitler's notations in hundreds of books in his personal
library--most of which are now in the Library of Congress--reveal
that Hitler tried to fill the void with magic, the occult, and
crackpot proposals for new religions designed to displace
Christianity. Ryback concludes there is no doubt that Hitler
believed in divine powers. "But Hitler believed that the mortal and
the divine were one and the same: that the God he was seeking was in
fact himself."
Liar. Hitler was a professing catholic and christian his whole life.
Here is some support for the claim above.
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no
religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a
religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character
training and religion must be derived from faith . . . we need believing
people." [Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, from a speech made during
negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of 1933]
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a
few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men
to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a
sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man
I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in
His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of
vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison.
Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more
profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to
shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow
myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and
justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are
acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian
I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see
them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they
have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the
morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their
pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil,
if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand
years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are
plundered and exposed." [Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922,
published in "My New Order", quoted in Freethought Today April 1990]
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God".
The wise man announces it to the world.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
