| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JohnV" |
| Date: |
28 May 2004 05:16:51 PM |
| Object: |
hmmm |
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative. It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
John
.
|
|
| User: "Jos Flachs" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 06:35:28 PM |
|
|
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian.
Welcome. We are not.
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
So do we. Why don't you try to prove a positive? Like your the three
(inc. satan: four; incl. Mary with the Cherry: five) gods?
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of.
What would you learn? Not much, I'm afraid.
The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares.
We don't care what you worship, but we do care how you practice and
try to enforce it upon others.
Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a false teaching.
We don't believe that. We KNOW that. We try to waste our time on
getting 'in Shiva we believe from money'.
Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools?
Why would you?
Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years?
Because you are not allowed to chalk your religious quibbles on public
buildings.
No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals?
Yes.
If so, then I would be concerned about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
Seems you started the opening fire anyway.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers".
We are curious why there are so many different groups, often almost at
war with other groups of believers.
I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief?
As soon as the unicorn believers chalk their commandments on public
buildings, or print 'in the Unicorn we believe' on money, you should.
Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns?
Definitely.
This phenomena leaves me dumbfounded.
Understandable. You have a very limited view, I notice.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Andrew Lias" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 06:37:22 PM |
|
|
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
If you were to read either the charter or the FAQ (which gets reposted
regularly as well as being available online) you would realize that
that is not the purpose of the group. It is a place for atheists to
gather and discuss topics of interest to atheists.
Such topics extend well beyond the realm of mere theology. Among
other things, the issues of church/state separation, familial
relationships, interacting with coworkers and, invariably, the
question of how to answer the inevitable challenges that people throw
your way.
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect.
Or if you spent your time going to newsgroups where atheists gather
to... oh wait.
I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of.
And yet, here you are. A curious thing, don't you think?
The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching.
The issue of religion in this country extends well beyond that, as
I've already illustrated.
Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools?
Because we care about how are children are taught. Because no one
wants their children to be subject to coercive indoctrination.
Because the fundamental issues of seppartion of church and state are
central to what my nation stands for.
Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years?
If you are referring to the Moore controversy, your facts are amiss.
Moore placed the monument there as a deliberate challenge to the
establishment clause and was very public in admitting that its
function was to advance Christianity. For a sitting judge to take
such a religiously charged stance is disturbing, to say the least, and
ought to disturb you even if you happen to incidentally share his
theology.
No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals?
Have you not read the first commandment? An injunction to worship God
stands in contradiction to the principles that this country was
founded upon.
If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
I would be concerned about your ability to grasp the issue.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers".
Because we have a mutual commonality. Because atheists are, by and
large, looked down upon by the culture at large and it's nice to have
a place of our own. Ultimately, because we want to and it is not your
place to question that.
I don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief?
If you so choose. Somehow, though, I doubt that Unicorn believers are
a prominent part of your political and cultural landscape. Where they
were, I suspect that you would, in fact, seek the company of
a-unicornists.
Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns?
If your child ever were to attend a school where the literal belief in
unicorns was pushed, I suspect that you would want them to stop, in
point of fact.
This phenomena leaves me dumbfounded.
With all due respect, I doubt that it is the phenomenon which has led
to your dumbfoundment.
--
Andrew Lias
http://andrewlias.blogspot.com
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Thomas P." |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 02:41:13 AM |
|
|
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative. It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
John
Apparently Christians who have posted the above or versions of it are
dumbfounded, since, no matter how many times it has been posted and
answered, they continue to post it as if it was something new that
they had personally composed. Don't you think people have memories?
Isn't it supposed to be a sin to lie?
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
.
|
|
|
| User: "bogie" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 12:26:29 PM |
|
|
"Thomas P." <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:kffgb0trn9n5kju2ogr7rhfefeqjth345j@4ax.com...
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative. It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
John
Apparently Christians who have posted the above or versions of it are
dumbfounded, since, no matter how many times it has been posted and
answered, they continue to post it as if it was something new that
they had personally composed. Don't you think people have memories?
Isn't it supposed to be a sin to lie?
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
You know what, though? A lot of them are actually sincere. They're trying
to "seek and save the lost". That was me, not 4 years ago. I came here
with the same sort of thinking, all the while believing that such thoughts
were my own.
And look at me now!
Look ma! No gods!
bogie
.
|
|
|
| User: "Thomas P." |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 01:52:09 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 29 May 2004 17:26:29 GMT, "bogie"
<neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Thomas P." <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:kffgb0trn9n5kju2ogr7rhfefeqjth345j@4ax.com...
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
snip
Apparently Christians who have posted the above or versions of it are
dumbfounded, since, no matter how many times it has been posted and
answered, they continue to post it as if it was something new that
they had personally composed. Don't you think people have memories?
Isn't it supposed to be a sin to lie?
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
You know what, though? A lot of them are actually sincere. They're trying
to "seek and save the lost". That was me, not 4 years ago. I came here
with the same sort of thinking, all the while believing that such thoughts
were my own.
And look at me now!
Look ma! No gods!
bogie
It is a good thing to ask them why the "Truth" has to be defended with
lies. Occasionally one of them might actually begin to think about
it.
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
.
|
|
|
| User: "bogie" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 02:16:29 PM |
|
|
"Thomas P." <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:eimhb0lbougv95csikcmuk0ksv3drcaqjd@4ax.com...
On Sat, 29 May 2004 17:26:29 GMT, "bogie"
<neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Thomas P." <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:kffgb0trn9n5kju2ogr7rhfefeqjth345j@4ax.com...
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
snip
Apparently Christians who have posted the above or versions of it are
dumbfounded, since, no matter how many times it has been posted and
answered, they continue to post it as if it was something new that
they had personally composed. Don't you think people have memories?
Isn't it supposed to be a sin to lie?
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
You know what, though? A lot of them are actually sincere. They're
trying
to "seek and save the lost". That was me, not 4 years ago. I came here
with the same sort of thinking, all the while believing that such
thoughts
were my own.
And look at me now!
Look ma! No gods!
bogie
It is a good thing to ask them why the "Truth" has to be defended with
lies. Occasionally one of them might actually begin to think about
it.
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
Yup. I agree. I just wanted to point out that there are some who have been
blinded by those lies, and genuinely believe them. It's not their fault;
although they have no excuse for not checking things out for themselves.
bogie
.
|
|
|
| User: "SkArcher" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 02:56:07 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 29 May 2004 19:16:29 GMT, bogie <neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com>
wrote:
"Thomas P." <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:eimhb0lbougv95csikcmuk0ksv3drcaqjd@4ax.com...
On Sat, 29 May 2004 17:26:29 GMT, "bogie"
<neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Thomas P." <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:kffgb0trn9n5kju2ogr7rhfefeqjth345j@4ax.com...
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
snip
Apparently Christians who have posted the above or versions of it are
dumbfounded, since, no matter how many times it has been posted and
answered, they continue to post it as if it was something new that
they had personally composed. Don't you think people have memories?
Isn't it supposed to be a sin to lie?
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
You know what, though? A lot of them are actually sincere. They're
trying
to "seek and save the lost". That was me, not 4 years ago. I came
here
with the same sort of thinking, all the while believing that such
thoughts
were my own.
And look at me now!
Look ma! No gods!
bogie
It is a good thing to ask them why the "Truth" has to be defended with
lies. Occasionally one of them might actually begin to think about
it.
Yup. I agree. I just wanted to point out that there are some who have
been
blinded by those lies, and genuinely believe them. It's not their fault;
although they have no excuse for not checking things out for themselves.
I can understand it, although I cannot condone it.
What I do find to be morally good is education and the stimulation of
thought. This is why I try, wherever possible, to maintain an even
disposition towards the theists who come here. While some (mentioning no
current names), are best termed kooks and killfiled, as they not only have
no interest in learning Truth but are determined to obfuscate it with a
series of lies, others, such as the root-poster of this thread, do come
here in some form of genuine good intent, however inappropriate of
misapplied.
I regard it as meet that if they come here seeking to change our opinions,
I will seek to change theirs, to educate them and get them to open their
eyes and genuinely see the universe about them.
Anything less and I would be morally derelict in my viewpoint; That
religion is a great evil in modern society and should be left as a
historical curiosity.
--
SkArcher - A.A#590
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information
available. - Benford's law of controversy.
.
|
|
|
| User: "bogie" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 03:56:43 PM |
|
|
"SkArcher" <SkArcher@Viking.Breakfast.Spam> wrote in message
news:opr8r1ntunk82k4f@news.ntlworld.com...
On Sat, 29 May 2004 19:16:29 GMT, bogie <neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com>
wrote:
"Thomas P." <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:eimhb0lbougv95csikcmuk0ksv3drcaqjd@4ax.com...
On Sat, 29 May 2004 17:26:29 GMT, "bogie"
<neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Thomas P." <tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:kffgb0trn9n5kju2ogr7rhfefeqjth345j@4ax.com...
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
snip
Apparently Christians who have posted the above or versions of it
are
dumbfounded, since, no matter how many times it has been posted and
answered, they continue to post it as if it was something new that
they had personally composed. Don't you think people have memories?
Isn't it supposed to be a sin to lie?
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
You know what, though? A lot of them are actually sincere. They're
trying
to "seek and save the lost". That was me, not 4 years ago. I came
here
with the same sort of thinking, all the while believing that such
thoughts
were my own.
And look at me now!
Look ma! No gods!
bogie
It is a good thing to ask them why the "Truth" has to be defended with
lies. Occasionally one of them might actually begin to think about
it.
Yup. I agree. I just wanted to point out that there are some who have
been
blinded by those lies, and genuinely believe them. It's not their
fault;
although they have no excuse for not checking things out for themselves.
I can understand it, although I cannot condone it.
What I do find to be morally good is education and the stimulation of
thought. This is why I try, wherever possible, to maintain an even
disposition towards the theists who come here. While some (mentioning no
current names), are best termed kooks and killfiled, as they not only have
no interest in learning Truth but are determined to obfuscate it with a
series of lies, others, such as the root-poster of this thread, do come
here in some form of genuine good intent, however inappropriate of
misapplied.
I regard it as meet that if they come here seeking to change our opinions,
I will seek to change theirs, to educate them and get them to open their
eyes and genuinely see the universe about them.
Anything less and I would be morally derelict in my viewpoint; That
religion is a great evil in modern society and should be left as a
historical curiosity.
--
SkArcher - A.A#590
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information
available. - Benford's law of controversy.
Mm hmm. No quarrel here.
bogie
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 02:03:34 AM |
|
|
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative. It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
John
I'm not trying to prove a negative, just resting until I see proof
positive.
I'm not the one trying to prove anything, except that ones belief is
that of their own and not to be meddled with.
If I see a burning bush I'll squirt water on it. If the bush talks to
me, I'll have my prescriptions tested. I might stop drinking. I've
even taken LSD and nothing talked to me.
I know right from wrong. Many people did in ancient China, before
Christianity existed.
I think the very subtle line you are dancing on is that of state
sponsored religion.
Mentioning it in a taxpaid venue along with the fact that there are
other religions, as well mentioning atheism, shouldn't be a problem.
But you got to make sure not to teach or favor any one belief in a
public school because students have a right their own: you cannot
grade a student right or wrong on his opinion: that of which religion
he does or doesn't acknowledge. Teaching *tolerance* is important. In
fact, more important than most people know.
The property owned by taxpayers cannot be used for asserting one
religion, as the posting of the ten commandments in school (or court)
would do. That's why "Roy's rock" had to go. Because people of a
variety of faiths, along with people of no faith, via taxes, jointly
own public property, it cannot be used exclusively for one religion,
even if it's the popular one - actually *especially* if it's the
popular one, or the "free practice thereof" part of the first
amendment is violated.
Freedom of religion means you can freely choose who to worship or not
to worship. As soon as government intervenes, it is wrong, and freedom
collapses.
This atheist just wishes to re-separate church and state. My opinion
of those who believe doesn't matter. Y'all keep worshiping, just
follow your faith, not work against the faith of others, and, ye Gods,
please keep the government out of it: they have enough to bollix up.
Do you *really need their help? And, will you still worship without
"Roy's rock"? You already know the text - why do you need to chisel it
on granite or paint it on walls? Is Gods word better if you have to
write it down?
So, I'm *not* going to burn down your church. I might rent a
schoolroom across the hall from the one you rent to preach in. It
should be my right to rent public space to assert my opinion, too.
That's freedom.
Any questions?
drift
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 06:09:22 AM |
|
|
<drift@lost.net> wrote in message
news:h0agb05vah9g1ndmpdigeodduoha90lnqu@4ax.com...
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
If I see a burning bush I'll squirt water on it. If the bush talks to
me, I'll have my prescriptions tested. I might stop drinking. I've
even taken LSD and nothing talked to me.
Aw man..Bum trip...even the damned trees were shouting at me !
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 05:20:54 PM |
|
|
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative. It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
Start using your allegedly god-given brain: if unicorn-believers tried
to impose their beliefs, a unicorn-believing president said that
non-unicorn-believers shouldn't be citizens, etc people would discuss
that.
If you guys kept your beliefs to yourselves, didn't impose them,
didn't attack us for not sharin them etc then nobody would give a
flying ***** about your Santa Claus equivalent.
John
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Steve Knight" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 07:49:10 PM |
|
|
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
snip
The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it?
Alt.atheism is a group for atheists. Here we discuss how your dirty
religion affects us. How the mind of children are infected and
destroyed by superstition. How your religion of love demeans and
ostracizes atheists because they aren't religious zombies committing
intellectual suicide.
We share horror stories about what your ilk do to us. Have always
done to us.
And a clueless ***** like you can't figure it out.
I remember when I first found alt.atheism on the Internet. What a
shock! Thousands of atheists all being heard in one place. A far cry
from living a life thinking you were alone. Afraid of saying anything
because of how your society treats us.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "SkArcher" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 05:46:04 PM |
|
|
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, JohnV <johnvjohnv@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian.
My sympathies.
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
There isn't. There's a group that debates and concentrates upon the real,
and a bunch of trolls, kooks and fundies that try to prove a false
positive.
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect.
Which a more than significant number of christian theologists do.
I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of.
So why are you posting here? You *aren't* an Atheist, so why bother?
The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares.
We don't, but the newsroup ALT.ATHEISM sees a lot of traffic from
proselytizers
Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching.
Correct. And yet you (and they) post here.
Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools?
Because children are vulnerable to simplistic arguements and
(malliciously) incorrect information, and as They grow up they continue to
hold to views taught in early life. This, at any rate, is why I oppose the
teaching of any form of Religion in schools.
Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years?
Because the 10 commandments are no part of modern law.
No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart.
I imagine you would be *very* surprised by the lack of universal support
for the 10 commandments.
Actually, no, you probably wouldn't, if you actually sat down and
critically thought about them you would be likely to realise how many are
and have been broken on a daily basis in modern society.
Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
Certain of them do, yes. In fact many of them are contradicted by current
christian practices, let alone by the behaviour of Atheists, you might
wish to look at your own cults behaviour before ours - "he who ixs without
sin may cast the first stone", as it were
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
Then I suggest you desist from posting in alt.atheism
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers".
Because there are issues worth discussing within the framework of critical
thought.
I don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief?
I don't know. Do you feel you have anything to add to such a group, or
discuss with them?
Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns?
Fallacy. Probably a sub-classification of a Non-distribution Fallacy.
Simply put, your arguement here presumes that the belief in Unicorns and
the belief in a deity are of the same order of magnitude, both in number
of people holding said belief, importance to overall world-view of that
belief and objective importance of that view.
While I would not hesitate to agree that Theism and belief in Unicorns are
both equally ridiculous, it is evident that you do not consider
christianity to be of a similarly worthless nature, and that the
fallacious beliefs so mentioned would not be placed upon the same footing
in the aforementioned schools.
Christianity should get equal time in schools with other myths, including
unicorns - i.e. none whatsoever.
This phenomena leaves me dumbfounded.
It's simple. There is no such thing as God. Continued equivocation of
Christianity and God with virtue is harmful to the mental health of human
beings, especially children.
Now, please exit the atheist disscussion group and never return. Thank you.
John
--
SkArcher - A.A#590
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information
available. - Benford's law of controversy.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 05:23:34 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700 in episode
<508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
johnvjohnv@yahoo.com (JohnV):
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to prove
a negative.
There isn't.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Rv Cloim" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 09:04:26 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, JohnV wrote:
Hi you all,
Hi.
I'm a Christian.
Alright.
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to prove
a negative.
Is there?
It would be similar if I spent my time studying other
religions to prove that they are incorrect.
Some people do that. Most of them are members of an organized religions.
While I do study religions, my interest is not in "disproving" them. It
has more to do with a desire to understand how different cultures view
things. And, of course, some of the associated mythologies are quite
entertaining.
I'd rather learn more about
the "group" that I'm a member of.
I'm a "member" of many "groups". Most of the groups contain members of
religious groups. So learning about religious groups helps me to
understand the members of the other groups to which I belong.
How can someone understand the Pakistani-Indian tensions without knowledge
of Islam and Hinduism? Or the middle east without knowledge of Judaism,
Islam, and Christianity?
The old saying of "know your enemy"
doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a God exists, who
cares.
My "enemy" cares.
Why waste your time on it?
Why read fiction? Why watch movies? Why...?
You believe it's a false teaching.
That hasn't been established.
Why would you care if religions are explored "not taught as truth" in
schools?
I don't care.
Why would you care if the 10 commandments exists on a stone
outside of a courthouse that has existed for 50 years?
Depends upon the context. If a law has been successfully transgressed for
a significant period of time, it does not invalidate the law.
Law is not tradition. If it's written as law, and you disagree with it,
you should try to change it. Breaking it, does not change it.
People have been stealing, murdering, and raping throughout history. Does
that mean we should condone it?
No matter what
your beliefs, there is right and wrong, and every person knows it in their
heart.
But not everyone agrees on right and wrong.
Do the 10 commandments contradict your morals?
The ones concerning obedience to the god of Abraham do. You know, the ones
that Christians never talk about when discussing the "10 commandments".
From what I usually hear, it should be "The 3 commandments".
If so, then I
would be concerned about your influence on society.
Why? I obey the "3 commandments".
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
Then why bring up Abrahamic doctrine and state that you are concerned
about the influence of those that don't agree with it?
I'm
seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers".
To discuss things that concern us. Like people that are concerned about
our influence on society.
I don't
believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same non-belief?
Are there unicornists complaining about the influence of non-unicornists
upon society? Are there legislators trying to enact laws to force you to
adhere to unicornist rituals?
Should I petition the government to stop funding schools in which require
reading that involves unicorns?
If they want to teach about how unicorns created us in a science class, then yes.
This phenomena leaves me dumbfounded.
John
Your lack of understanding leaves me with the same impression.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "John M Price PhD" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 11:54:06 AM |
|
|
On top.
Bets on another of the one-post-wonders?
In alt.atheism article <508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41@posting.google.com> JohnV <johnvjohnv@yahoo.com> wrote:
: Hi you all,
: I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
: prove a negative. It would be similar if I spent my time studying
: other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
: more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
: your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
: God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
: false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
: taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
: commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
: existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
: wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
: commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
: about your influence on society.
: My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
: I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
: don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
: non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
: in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
: leaves me dumbfounded.
: John
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
--
John M. Price, PhD
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
Monday's child is fair of face,
Tuesday's child is full of grace,
Wednesday's child is full of woe,
Thursday's child has far to go,
Friday's child is loving and giving,
Saturday's child works hard for its living,
But a child that's born on the Sabbath day
Is bonny and blithe, and good and gay.
.
|
|
|
| User: "SkArcher" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 12:07:54 PM |
|
|
On 29 May 2004 16:54:06 GMT, John M Price PhD <jmprice@calweb.com> wrote:
On top.
Bets on another of the one-post-wonders?
<SNIP>
Looks that way. Wonder if this was a genuine poster who got the message of
"go away, we don't want you here", an abortive proselytizer or an old
troll under a new name.
It was polite at any rate, and most responses were the same. We'll see,
maybe just someone who doesn't check usenet all the time.
--
SkArcher - A.A#590
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information
available. - Benford's law of controversy.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 10:46:00 PM |
|
|
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach JohnV:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian.
My condolences, but somehow I doubt you are more than a post-and-run.
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
If there is, why did you ask about it here?
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect.
Then I guess you would rather sit back and believe yours is correct, and
never bother to question, or wonder why.
Why?
I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of.
I'd rather look at world religions from a neutral position, then compare
and contrast. But that's just me.
The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares.
Define "your enemy". As an atheist, "my enemy" is religion. It's in my
face, on my money, in my patriotic oath, and physically unavoidable.
It's also *****, but that's just my opinion.
Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years?
What you idiots fail to understand is that erecting religious monuments
on government property constitutes government endorsement of said
religion. This principle not only excludes legal citizens who do not
support said religion from due process, but it takes steps toward
extablishing a theocracy.
Examples of historical theocracy:
The Taliban dictatorship of Afghanistan
The Muslim dictatorship of Iraq
The Dark Ages in Christian Europe
Nazi Germany
How would you feel if Hinduism was militarily enforced in America?
No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart.
Agreed. But I know it in my brain. My heart is a blood pump.
Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
Do you require the 10 commandments to enforce your morality? What would
you do without them? I am already concerned about your influence on my
society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers".
And I'm seriously concerned there are idiots out there like you that have
the power to get appointed President of this (formerly) great country,
and use their religious convictions to wage war on other religious
idiots. This world is doomed, thanks to your idiotic religions.
I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief?
Please do, if it will keep you busy and out of my forums. Go for it,
jackass.
Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
You are obviously stupid and hopelessly self-centered if you think your
religious genre should be categorized as the "norm", and all others
should be forced to conform. ***** you and the god you rode in on.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
It's my funeral and I'll fry if I want to...
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
