| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JohnV" |
| Date: |
28 May 2004 05:16:51 PM |
| Object: |
hmmm |
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative. It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
John
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 07:07:57 PM |
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"JohnV" <johnvjohnv@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41@posting.google.com...
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian.
That's not our fault.
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
Urmm. This group exists? Where's the negative ?
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect.
Studying religion is quite fun...
So are other mythological studies.
I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of.
One does...Like 'em or not !
The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools?
Personally, I'd rather children have an education, not an indoctrination.
Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart.
Whatever turns you on !
Some people even smoke filter cigarettes !!!
...........Man !!!
Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
You'd need to study some Christian history before I could take that
statement seriously !
Because you obviously haven't ! Hey, but maybe you will !
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers".
Why would a 'Christian' want to post in alt.atheism ?
Even our experts are still baffled by that.
I don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief?
Well, a good start would be not to post to
alt.I-belive-in-unicorns wouldn't it ?
Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
Sorry but 'Christianity' leaves me dumbfounded too.
And so as not to appear in anyway prejudiced...
But I don't belive in any religion...or 'God'. ...OK ?
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
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| User: "SkArcher" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 07:28:10 PM |
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On Sat, 29 May 2004 01:07:57 +0100, Jez <iced_spear@AwaySPAMdsl.pipex.com>
wrote:
"JohnV" <johnvjohnv@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41@posting.google.com...
Hi you all,
I don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief?
Well, a good start would be not to post to
alt.I-belive-in-unicorns wouldn't it ?
now I read this, and the pedant in me instantly wanted to know if there
*was* a group about unicorns (alt.mythology.mythic-animals is the closest,
for those interested, although there was once a proposal for
alt.mythology.mythic-animals.unicorns it never appears to have been
carried through).
However, as with so many thing, Google throws up a couple of oddities, and
one of them was the following bible quote;
"Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of
the unicorns." - Psalms 22:21
So, Unicorns in the bible - you get two myths taught in schools for the
price of one!
--
SkArcher - A.A#590
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information
available. - Benford's law of controversy.
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| User: "bogie" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 05:33:15 PM |
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"JohnV" <johnvjohnv@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41@posting.google.com...
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative. It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
John
John,
Why don't you believe in unicorns?
When you can answer that question rationally, you'll understand why atheists
don't believe in gods.
bogie
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| User: "Another Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 05:39:25 PM |
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"JohnV" <johnvjohnv@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41@posting.google.com...
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative. It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
John
This group doesn't exist to prove a negative. The responsibility of
providing evidence falls to the ones making the assertion i.e. "God exists".
Groups like this exist to provide a community for what is an unpopular idea,
a forum for pointing out constitutional abuses, to stand up for our right
not to believe and to share humor.
We don't hate theists, we hate the practice of having religion permeate
every facet of our society and having shoved down our throats.
We care about the ten commandments being posted on government property
because it constitutes government endorsement of the Judeo-Christian God. As
far as our morals verus the ten commandments, prohibitions against killing,
lying and stealing exist in every culture. We have no issue with these. Not
making graven images or observing the Sabbath day are no longer relevant.
The Roman Catholic Church is guilty of making graven images.What the Sabbath
day means to today's society, at least in my state, is that you can't buy a
six-pack or car on Sunday.
What would happen if the firemen, police, doctors, nurses,etc. observed the
Sabbath day commandment?
I don't presume to speak for everyone in this newsgroup but I think these
are the basics.
Another Apostate
anotherapo@hotmail.com
aa #2182 EAC Director of Covert Operations and Black Helicopter Pilot
"If you are ethical only because you believe in God, you are buying your
ticket to heaven or trying to tear up your ticket to hell. In either case,
you are just being a shrewd profiteer, nothing else. The idea of being
ethical is to be ethical for no reason except that that is the way to be if
you want the world to run smoothly. I think that people who say virtue is
its own reward or honesty is the best policy have the right idea."
-Issac Asimov
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 08:07:22 PM |
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On Fri, 28 May 2004, Another Apostate posted
"If you are ethical only because you believe in God, you are buying your
ticket to heaven or trying to tear up your ticket to hell. In either case,
you are just being a shrewd profiteer, nothing else. The idea of being
ethical is to be ethical for no reason except that that is the way to be if
you want the world to run smoothly. I think that people who say virtue is
its own reward or honesty is the best policy have the right idea."
-Issac Asimov
Isaac
;-)
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| User: "Another Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 08:10:41 PM |
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"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1040528200626.26266B-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
On Fri, 28 May 2004, Another Apostate posted
"If you are ethical only because you believe in God, you are buying your
ticket to heaven or trying to tear up your ticket to hell. In either
case,
you are just being a shrewd profiteer, nothing else. The idea of being
ethical is to be ethical for no reason except that that is the way to be
if
you want the world to run smoothly. I think that people who say virtue
is
its own reward or honesty is the best policy have the right idea."
-Issac Asimov
Isaac
;-)
Typo. Oops.
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 06:20:13 PM |
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"JohnV" <johnvjohnv@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41@posting.google.com...
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative. It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
Oh.
Dear..
(drumroll..) let the fun begin....
.
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| User: "Jim07D4" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 06:05:37 PM |
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(JohnV) said:
.....
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
MAybe you should go to http://www.atheists.org/ and see what seems to
motivate them.
Or even http://www.atheists-for-jesus.com/
Cheers,
Jim07D4
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| User: "Spooked " |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 06:08:51 PM |
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Jim07D4 <Jim07D4@nospam.net> wrote:
Or even http://www.atheists-for-jesus.com/
Thank you!
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 07:26:37 AM |
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(JohnV) wrote in alt.atheism
Why would you care if religions are explored "not taught as
truth" in schools?
I've been pushing for mandatory comparative religion classes
in public school as early as the second grade, but I can't get any
religious people to agree with me. They only want THEIR religion
taught to such young impressionable minds, or something else
stops them from supporting the idea.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 07:11:08 PM |
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(JohnV) wrote in news:508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41
@posting.google.com:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian.
Sorry for ya, man.
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
And what group is that? This group, "alt.atheism" exists as a forum for
non-believers to discuss issues and topics of interest and importance to
them. Unfortunately, xians such as yourself think that you have some god
given right to come around and try and sell you fantasies to us. There
is no need for us to "prove a negative". Your total inability to support
your god fantasy with facts and evidence is sufficient.
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect.
If fools and assholes like you didn't come around trying to shove this
***** down our throats on a regular basis, we would have no need to
discuss it or study it.
I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares.
Your right, "who cares"? The problem is that fools and assholes like you
care and keep trying to force this stupid ***** on us regularly, and try
to force the schools to teach your myths as science, and try to make the
laws of this country reflect these myths.... We care about that.
Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools?
Because we do care about humanity and the way it suffers at the hand of
religion. We care about people being taught and brainwashed into
believing these lies. We care about the evil that occurs in the name of
gods. We care about indoctrination of religion being used as a tool to
manipulate and control the masses....
Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years?
Why do you care if it isn't there? Do you think that this would in some
way diminish your god?
No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart.
If so, and since most of the world is non-xian, then how do they come to
learn what is right and wrong without your 10 commandments?
Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals?
Anything that teaches people to believe in myth instead of reality
contradicts my morals.
If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
I do what I can to influence society away from the evils and excesses and
stupidity and ignorance of religion.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
Good, because you would probably find that your are the one getting
ripped.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
Are you this stupid in real life or do you just act this way on the
Usenet? How many "unicornists" are trying to have the unicorn creation
of the universe taught as a scientific theory? How many "unicornists"
are trying to get the government to pass laws supporting the "unicorn
god"? How may "unicornists" are trying to make this a "unicornist"
country?....
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Spooked " |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 05:29:44 PM |
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(JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
John
Hi! Welcome to my support group.
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| User: "Spooked " |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 05:51:55 PM |
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(JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
John
Hi! Welcome to my support group.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 08:54:49 PM |
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In article <2kgfb0laecpbtml5014g95nuc5bu53c2em@4ax.com>, Spooked says...
johnvjohnv@yahoo.com (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
John
Hi! Welcome to my support group.
Oh my :)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Spooked " |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 08:59:53 PM |
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Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote:
In article <2kgfb0laecpbtml5014g95nuc5bu53c2em@4ax.com>, Spooked says...
johnvjohnv@yahoo.com (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
John
Hi! Welcome to my support group.
Oh my :)
Hey! It beats nothing.
BTW, I wanted you to check this as I listen to it...
http://www.lyricsstyle.com/g/godsmack/voices.html
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| User: "Spooked " |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 09:02:06 PM |
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Spooked <> wrote:
Robibnikoff <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote:
In article <2kgfb0laecpbtml5014g95nuc5bu53c2em@4ax.com>, Spooked says...
johnvjohnv@yahoo.com (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
John
Hi! Welcome to my support group.
Oh my :)
Hey! It beats nothing.
BTW, I wanted you to check this as I listen to it...
http://www.lyricsstyle.com/g/godsmack/voices.html
Of course you prefer noise such as Vivaldi, but give it a chance,
okay?!
.
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 05:55:21 PM |
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In alt.atheism on 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700,
(JohnV) let us all know that:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
Mathematicians?
Hint: mathematicians prove negatives all the time, e.g. proving
that the set of primes is not finite.
Or maybe you're just stupid and think that atheists try to prove
that there is no god. *****, you're stupid if you think that.
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect.
So?
I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here,
Yeah, it does.
because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares.
Many people, like Pat Robertson, do. They would like to force us
to believe.
Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools?
They can do that.
Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years?
Because the 10 demandments have nothing to do with law.
No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart.
The heart knows nothing.
Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals?
One of them does: where god says he will punish people who did
nothing at all to him. That is immoral.
My intent here is not to rip on you
Liar.
or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
That's because you're stupid.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 06:35:13 PM |
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In article <508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41@posting.google.com>,
(JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian.
Well, we can't all be perfect. {;-)
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
Um. We aren't such a group. You've made an unwarranted assumption.
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of.
And we do. I'm guessing you haven't been lurking here for long, if at
all.
The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it?
You haven't been paying much attention to the stuff going on in the
world, have you?
You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools?
Because I want *facts* taught in schools, not myths, regardless of how
bloody popular they might be. I have a son in a public institution of
higher learning. I sure don't want there to be a chance that one day,
such a place might start teaching that Genesis is a scientific fact book.
Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals?
Um, yes, they do. I don't think it's right to command anyone to worship
any mythical being. I don't think it's right to condemn the making of
carved statues. I don't think it's right to attempt to shut down the
whole world one day out of every seven. I also think it's wrong to
condemn people for having unauthorized thoughts.
If so, then I would be concerned about your influence on society.
Yeah, you do that. While you're at it, why don't you read up on the "Ten
Commandments Rebels" out in Central Africa, and let me know what you
think of those Bible-believing nuts.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
Good. Because you'd get yourself into deep trouble pretty quick around
here. Several of us know as much about the book-o-blood as most
"professionals."
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers".
You don't think much on your own, do you? It hasn't occurred to you that
we are just as much human as you are, and that we might want to talk
with other folks that we share something in common with? That's just sad.
I don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief?
If that would make you happy, go for it. It's no skin off my nose.
Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
An unfortunate choice of words. Look, if you learned that any school was
getting children to read a book about unicorns, and teaching them that
unicorns are real and can do miraculous things, you'd be upset, I'll
bet. We feel the same way when the ICR comes to schools, trying to teach
kids that the universe is 10,000 years old. It's very odd that you can't
see the problem.
John
Take it easy, mon. Write again after you've learned a little more about
us, and when you've learned how not to insult us in our own group.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 05:49:04 PM |
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In article <508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41@posting.google.com>, JohnV says...
Hi you all,
Greetings.
I'm a Christian.
And I'm not. How'd doo.
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
What group would that be sweetheart, because this ain't it.
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers".
Why not?
I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
Oh dear - You don't get out much, do you?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 07:35:53 PM |
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On Fri, 28 May 2004 22:49:04 +0000 in episode
<AlPtc.4578$H4.267@www.newsranger.com> we saw our hero Robibnikoff
<nospam@newsranger.com>:
In article <508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41@posting.google.com>, JohnV
says...
Hi you all,
Greetings.
I'm a Christian.
And I'm not. How'd doo.
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
What group would that be sweetheart, because this ain't it.
Funny isn't it? They come in, assumptions blazing, start making
accusations, questioning peoples' motives, even being insulting and *then
think *we're the rude ones.
Yeesh.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
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| User: "Robibnikof" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 08:50:55 PM |
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|
In article <pan.2004.05.29.00.35.53.203799@hoo.com-amikchi>, Mark K. Bilbo
says...
On Fri, 28 May 2004 22:49:04 +0000 in episode
<AlPtc.4578$H4.267@www.newsranger.com> we saw our hero Robibnikoff
<nospam@newsranger.com>:
In article <508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41@posting.google.com>, JohnV
says...
Hi you all,
Greetings.
I'm a Christian.
And I'm not. How'd doo.
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
What group would that be sweetheart, because this ain't it.
Funny isn't it? They come in, assumptions blazing, start making
accusations, questioning peoples' motives, even being insulting and *then
think *we're the rude ones.
Well, we ARE the godless heathen Satan worshippers, right?
Yeesh.
Ed Zachary! :)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 09:24:29 PM |
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|
On Sat, 29 May 2004 01:50:55 +0000 in episode
<30Stc.4589$H4.124@www.newsranger.com> we saw our hero Robibnikof
<nospam@newsranger.com>:
In article <pan.2004.05.29.00.35.53.203799@hoo.com-amikchi>, Mark K. Bilbo
says...
On Fri, 28 May 2004 22:49:04 +0000 in episode
<AlPtc.4578$H4.267@www.newsranger.com> we saw our hero Robibnikoff
<nospam@newsranger.com>:
In article <508a8973.0405281416.528ecb41@posting.google.com>, JohnV
says...
Hi you all,
Greetings.
I'm a Christian.
And I'm not. How'd doo.
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
What group would that be sweetheart, because this ain't it.
Funny isn't it? They come in, assumptions blazing, start making
accusations, questioning peoples' motives, even being insulting and *then
think *we're the rude ones.
Well, we ARE the godless heathen Satan worshippers, right?
Oh drat. I keep forgetting.
Yeesh.
Ed Zachary! :)
Him *again?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 06:24:37 PM |
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JohnV wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
Are you trying to slip the assertion into your post that alt.atheism
exists for this purpose? Don't be bashful, make a proper claim and
convince me that this is true with a good, logical argument based on
presentation of valid evidence.
How long have you been lurking here, reading posts before you came up
with this opinion?
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect.
What is your opinion on the correctness of other religions? Did you
form this opinion after trying to prove them to be incorrect? I doubt
it.
I'd rather learn more about the "group" that I'm a member of.
I'd rather learn more about lots of groups. Its all interesting.
The old saying of "know your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here,
because if you don't believe a God exists, who cares.
Exactly. Your religious beliefs do not make you my enemy.
If you are my enemy, it is because of your behavior.
Why waste your time on it?
First you have to make an argument that I do.
You believe it's a false teaching. Why would you care
if religions are explored "not taught as truth" in schools?
I have no objection to religions being explored in schools or
anywhere. Exploring my own religion is what caused me to become
atheist.
Why would you care if the 10 commandments exists on a stone outside
of a courthouse that has existed for 50 years?
Because it attaches the authority and power to coerce of the
government by being associated with it. Why do you need your
religious beliefs to be propped up by governmental authority? Is your
faith so weak?
No matter what your beliefs, there is right and wrong,
and every person knows it in their heart.
I generally agree with you. The details vary, a lot, though.
For instance the prohibition against worshiping other gods
has nothing to do with right, in my mind.
Do the 10 commandments contradict your morals?
The first few do. I see no value in keeping a sabbath day holy (what
ever that means. I have no objection to you being impressed with this
list, as long as you also follow the laws of the land.
If so, then I would be concerned about your influence on society.
I have a sense of right and wrong. I do right because I understand
that I help to construct the social world around me.
I do right because it is right, not because some magical invisible
being
threatens me if I fail.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers".
If this is the case, you should observe and possibly ask, rather than
starting with a presumption.
I don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief?
Have unicorn believers tried to put the rules of unicorn belief
on your court house wall or tried to have the government
teach them as truth to your school age children? Have you been
threatened with eternal damnation by unicorn believers? Have you been
called unpatriotic or un-American (or whatever equivalent applies to
your nationality) because you admitted not believing in unicorns? Put
yourself in the atheists place for a few moments and you will see the
parallels in their lives with respect to all sorts of religious
believers.
Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
You haven't yet given this any serious thought.
--
John Popelish
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| User: "Nivlem" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 06:43:54 PM |
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JohnV wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
It doesn't. Most people reading this probably regard it as sufficiently
proven for their purposes. However, if somebody shows up to forcefeed us
Christ, or Allah, or Shopona, God of Smallpox, it's only fair to see if
we can stuff our nonbelief down their throats in return, don't you think?
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares.
People like you seem to care. You wanna debate them, you have a better
shot at winning if you know their material somewhere close to as well as
you know your own.
Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools?
Stop lying. You know that's not what's being proposed. Nobody has a
problem with "comparative religion" or something like that being
offered. That isn't what's going on. This is about certain people
thinking that everyone should be forced by the government to pray to
their god. It's about religious dogma being stuffed into science classes
as if it were unquestioned truth.
Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years?
It's the Constitution, stupid. And in the most recent case, the 10
commandments on a stone in front of the courthouse were in fact placed
there in the last 5 years by some clown called Roy Moore, who deservedly
lost his job for his obstinacy in refusing a court order to uphold the
US Constitution.
No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
A few of them are just irrelevant actually, having primarily to do with
matters of religious observance.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
You should petiton the government to stop funding schools that insist
that unicorns in fact exist, and you'd better believe, or else. You once
again seek to misrepresent the problem before us. Tell me, does your
bible say anything about lying being wrong?
.
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| User: "Graham Kennedy" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 07:15:33 PM |
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|
JohnV wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
Then why are you posting to show that *we* are wrong?
Aren't you doing exactly what you accuse us of?
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect.
Many religious people do just that.
I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years?
Because it's my money that they are using to pay for it.
No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
The ten commandments most definitely conflict with my
morals given that several of them concern how I should
worship deities, which I do not believe exist.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns?
I have no problem with schools teaching *about* religion,
and I doubt most atheists would either. But I won't stand
for schools teaching that a particular religion is true,
and I most certainly will not stand to see schools teach
religious belief as if it were science.
This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
Suppose 80% of the world's population believed in unicorns,
despite the fact that all evidence indicated that they did
not exist.
Suppose many of the unicorn believers were grimly determined
to convince you that unicorns exist. They come to your door
uninvited, send you emails, harangue you in the streets, etc.
They even claim that your country is a "unicorn nation" which
was founded on unicorn principles, that all morality derives
from the unicorns and that since you don't believe, you must
be evil. Historically, unicorn believers have tended to do
very Nasty Things to those who don't believe in unicorns.
Things involving sharp objects being poked where they
shouldn't be.
Suppose the unicorn believers launched attempt after attempt
to make the government spend your taxes to support their unicorn
belief, whether you liked it or not. They make attempt after
attempt to have your children indoctorinated with their unicorn
faith, whether you like it or not.
Do you think you might want to talk about this situation with
other unicorn non-believers? Do you suppose you might be just
a little curious about why people are believers?
That is one of the main reasons I like to discuss religion. I'm
fascinated by how people can believe something that is, to me,
so obviously silly. I mean, *WAY* sillier than just believing
in unicorns. I find it by turns confusing, astonishing, amusing,
and more than a little frightening. I want to understand it.
Is that really so hard to understand?
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
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| User: "Nikolaos D. Bougalis" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 05:21:37 PM |
|
|
JohnV wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative. It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
You assume too much. This group does not exist to "prove a negative."
-n
.
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| User: "Nikolaos D. Bougalis" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 05:35:48 PM |
|
|
JohnV wrote:
No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
Read up on this article, and then get back to us about the 10 Commandments:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/features/2000/carrier2.html
-n
.
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 01:11:44 AM |
|
|
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700 the ET form known as
JohnV<johnvjohnv@yahoo.com> sent a radio signal across the vast
expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals?
Let's see. The first 4 are about a god so they are as useful as
commandments about the Easter Bunny but one of them says "worship only
this one god". Not a good start if you're hoping for a democracy.
And then there is "honour your parents". Sort of OK usually except if
your father is a hired killer and your mother s a drunken prostitute.
But that makes sense without a whole lot of superstitious hogwash to
go with it.
Then there is "don't kill" and "don't steal". Again the superstitious
hogwash is is not called for and these teaching are not exactly
original. And it would be kind of nice if the bible lived upto its'
own teachings. The ancient Israelites loved nothing better than
killing whole nations, raping and stealing all over the place and God
was the main cheer leader in all this bloodshed.
There is the adultery commandment but this is in recognition of a
property right. You see woman were property and adultery was one man
spoiling the property of another man. The status of women is confirmed
in the last commandment where woman are categorised like oxen.
Don't bear false witness is a good one but again it is not exactly
original, and is wrapped up in superstitious hogwash, and does not
seem to apply to the main characters of the buybull.
The commandment about coveting is a silly one. Do not covet your
neighbour's property like his woman for example. In this idealised god
fearing society that xian fundys want to emulate women are property.
You see you have to witness the Taliban today to see anything like the
society of the ancient Israelites, the society from which the 10
commandments came from. If you are going to hold up the 10C as the
pinnacle of legal instruments then you can not be surprised if I am
not impressed.
It is interesting that rape, slavery and torture are not mentioned in
the 10C. If the 10C is the finest legal instrument handed down by an
almighty, merciful god then why do these 3 fail to make the list? But
if you spy your neighbour's wife's nice butt heaven help you because
that butt belongs to your neighbour - not you. You can only abuse
women who are YOUR property, as long as the abusing inSTRUCKment is
narrower than your thumb.
I hope the 10 commandments contradict everyone's morals. Why should
anyone respect a legal instrument devised by a Taliban like society
like the ancient Israelites?
So the 10 commandments are either silly, immoral or if they do make
sense are taught by any half way decent religion anyway or adhered to
by non believers because the superstitious hogwash that goes with them
is not necessary to be a decent human being.
--
epicurus1*at*optusnet*dot*com*dot*au
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet -
Evil Atheist Conspiracy
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived." - Isaac Asimov
Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
RSA - 71 BA 7C 45 B5 4A 5F EA 72 DB EC 7F 7F A8 70 99
DSS - 9217 21A9 9C3F EB0B E302 AD0E 69C5 0F06 402E 0943
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 10:56:43 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 29 May 2004 15:41:44 +0930 in episode
<MPG.1b22b18371ef30bc989dcf@news.optusnet.com.au> we saw our hero
Meteorite Debris <abuse@yahoo.com>:
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700 the ET form known as
JohnV<johnvjohnv@yahoo.com> sent a radio signal across the vast expanse of
deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals?
Let's see. The first 4 are about a god so they are as useful as
commandments about the Easter Bunny but one of them says "worship only
this one god". Not a good start if you're hoping for a democracy.
And then there is "honour your parents". Sort of OK usually except if your
father is a hired killer and your mother s a drunken prostitute. But that
makes sense without a whole lot of superstitious hogwash to go with it.
Then there is "don't kill" and "don't steal". Again the superstitious
hogwash is is not called for and these teaching are not exactly original.
And it would be kind of nice if the bible lived upto its' own teachings.
The ancient Israelites loved nothing better than killing whole nations,
raping and stealing all over the place and God was the main cheer leader
in all this bloodshed.
There is the adultery commandment but this is in recognition of a property
right. You see woman were property and adultery was one man spoiling the
property of another man. The status of women is confirmed in the last
commandment where woman are categorised like oxen.
Don't bear false witness is a good one but again it is not exactly
original, and is wrapped up in superstitious hogwash, and does not seem to
apply to the main characters of the buybull.
The commandment about coveting is a silly one. Do not covet your
neighbour's property like his woman for example. In this idealised god
fearing society that xian fundys want to emulate women are property. You
see you have to witness the Taliban today to see anything like the society
of the ancient Israelites, the society from which the 10 commandments came
from. If you are going to hold up the 10C as the pinnacle of legal
instruments then you can not be surprised if I am not impressed.
It is interesting that rape, slavery and torture are not mentioned in the
10C. If the 10C is the finest legal instrument handed down by an almighty,
merciful god then why do these 3 fail to make the list? But if you spy
your neighbour's wife's nice butt heaven help you because that butt
belongs to your neighbour - not you. You can only abuse women who are YOUR
property, as long as the abusing inSTRUCKment is narrower than your thumb.
I hope the 10 commandments contradict everyone's morals. Why should anyone
respect a legal instrument devised by a Taliban like society like the
ancient Israelites?
So the 10 commandments are either silly, immoral or if they do make sense
are taught by any half way decent religion anyway or adhered to by non
believers because the superstitious hogwash that goes with them is not
necessary to be a decent human being.
Well said.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
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| User: "W. Syme" |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 10:52:13 PM |
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|
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
What are you talking about? I disagree with most commandments.
--
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
W. Syme (pseudonym), European, non-native English speaker, "soft" atheist.
Email will not be read.
.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 06:35:28 PM |
|
|
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian.
Welcome. We are not.
I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
So do we. Why don't you try to prove a positive? Like your the three
(inc. satan: four; incl. Mary with the Cherry: five) gods?
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of.
What would you learn? Not much, I'm afraid.
The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares.
We don't care what you worship, but we do care how you practice and
try to enforce it upon others.
Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a false teaching.
We don't believe that. We KNOW that. We try to waste our time on
getting 'in Shiva we believe from money'.
Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools?
Why would you?
Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years?
Because you are not allowed to chalk your religious quibbles on public
buildings.
No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals?
Yes.
If so, then I would be concerned about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
Seems you started the opening fire anyway.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers".
We are curious why there are so many different groups, often almost at
war with other groups of believers.
I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief?
As soon as the unicorn believers chalk their commandments on public
buildings, or print 'in the Unicorn we believe' on money, you should.
Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns?
Definitely.
This phenomena leaves me dumbfounded.
Understandable. You have a very limited view, I notice.
.
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| User: "Andrew Lias" |
|
| Title: Re: hmmm |
28 May 2004 06:37:22 PM |
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|
On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative.
If you were to read either the charter or the FAQ (which gets reposted
regularly as well as being available online) you would realize that
that is not the purpose of the group. It is a place for atheists to
gather and discuss topics of interest to atheists.
Such topics extend well beyond the realm of mere theology. Among
other things, the issues of church/state separation, familial
relationships, interacting with coworkers and, invariably, the
question of how to answer the inevitable challenges that people throw
your way.
It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect.
Or if you spent your time going to newsgroups where atheists gather
to... oh wait.
I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of.
And yet, here you are. A curious thing, don't you think?
The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching.
The issue of religion in this country extends well beyond that, as
I've already illustrated.
Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools?
Because we care about how are children are taught. Because no one
wants their children to be subject to coercive indoctrination.
Because the fundamental issues of seppartion of church and state are
central to what my nation stands for.
Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years?
If you are referring to the Moore controversy, your facts are amiss.
Moore placed the monument there as a deliberate challenge to the
establishment clause and was very public in admitting that its
function was to advance Christianity. For a sitting judge to take
such a religiously charged stance is disturbing, to say the least, and
ought to disturb you even if you happen to incidentally share his
theology.
No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals?
Have you not read the first commandment? An injunction to worship God
stands in contradiction to the principles that this country was
founded upon.
If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
I would be concerned about your ability to grasp the issue.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers".
Because we have a mutual commonality. Because atheists are, by and
large, looked down upon by the culture at large and it's nice to have
a place of our own. Ultimately, because we want to and it is not your
place to question that.
I don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief?
If you so choose. Somehow, though, I doubt that Unicorn believers are
a prominent part of your political and cultural landscape. Where they
were, I suspect that you would, in fact, seek the company of
a-unicornists.
Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns?
If your child ever were to attend a school where the literal belief in
unicorns was pushed, I suspect that you would want them to stop, in
point of fact.
This phenomena leaves me dumbfounded.
With all due respect, I doubt that it is the phenomenon which has led
to your dumbfoundment.
--
Andrew Lias
http://andrewlias.blogspot.com
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: hmmm |
29 May 2004 02:41:13 AM |
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On 28 May 2004 15:16:51 -0700, (JohnV) wrote:
Hi you all,
I'm a Christian. I often wonder why there is a group that exists to
prove a negative. It would be similar if I spent my time studying
other religions to prove that they are incorrect. I'd rather learn
more about the "group" that I'm a member of. The old saying of "know
your enemy" doesn't seem to apply here, because if you don't believe a
God exists, who cares. Why waste your time on it? You believe it's a
false teaching. Why would you care if religions are explored "not
taught as truth" in schools? Why would you care if the 10
commandments exists on a stone outside of a courthouse that has
existed for 50 years? No matter what your beliefs, there is right and
wrong, and every person knows it in their heart. Do the 10
commandments contradict your morals? If so, then I would be concerned
about your influence on society.
My intent here is not to rip on you or get into a debate on theology.
I'm seriously curious why there is a group of "non-believers". I
don't believe in unicorns. Should I join a group of the same
non-belief? Should I petition the government to stop funding schools
in which require reading that involves unicorns? This phenomena
leaves me dumbfounded.
John
Apparently Christians who have posted the above or versions of it are
dumbfounded, since, no matter how many times it has been posted and
answered, they continue to post it as if it was something new that
they had personally composed. Don't you think people have memories?
Isn't it supposed to be a sin to lie?
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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