| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
05 Sep 2005 09:31:30 PM |
| Object: |
Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
Leviticus 18: 19-30.
"You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she
is unclean from menstruation. You shall not have carnal relations with
your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer
any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the
name of your God. I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male as
with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have
carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a
woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things
are abhorrent.
"Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the nations
whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. Because
their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its wickedness, by
making it vomit out its inhabitants. You, however, whether natives or
resident aliens, must keep my statutes and decrees forbidding all such
abominations by which the previous inhabitants defiled the land;
otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just
as it vomited out the nations before you. Everyone who does any of
these abominations shall be cut off from among his people. Heed my
charge, then, not to defile yourselves by observing the abominable
customs that have been observed before you. I, the Lord, am your God."
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| User: "Goodness Godless" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
08 Sep 2005 05:59:57 PM |
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<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1125955890.854504.245500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Leviticus 18: 19-30.
"You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she
<snip mumbojumbo>
charge, then, not to defile yourselves by observing the abominable
customs that have been observed before you. I, the Lord, am your God."
How old are you again? Which paricular mumbo jumbo book did you get this
stuff from, the Koran?
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
06 Sep 2005 05:46:50 AM |
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wrote:
<snip OT crap>
Be carefull when using Leviticus. You don't want the Red Lobster
restaurants to close, now, do you?
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
06 Sep 2005 09:35:53 AM |
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On 6-Sep-2005, Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote:
vivapadrepio@aol.com wrote:
<snip OT crap>
Be carefull when using Leviticus. You don't want the Red Lobster
restaurants to close, now, do you?
They could switch to plain fish - there's plenty of them!
Susan
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| User: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
06 Sep 2005 08:35:49 PM |
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Red Lobster serves plenty of 'kosher' fish...
As we know any fish born with scales and fins is kosher.
<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ZpdTe.12822$IT4.7956@trnddc04...
:
: On 6-Sep-2005, Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote:
:
: > wrote:
: >
: > <snip OT crap>
: >
: > Be carefull when using Leviticus. You don't want the Red Lobster
: > restaurants to close, now, do you?
:
: They could switch to plain fish - there's plenty of them!
:
: Susan
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
05 Sep 2005 09:54:33 PM |
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wrote:
Leviticus 18: 19-30.
"You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she
is unclean from menstruation. You shall not have carnal relations with
your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer
any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the
name of your God. I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male as
with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have
carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a
woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things
are abhorrent.
"Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the nations
whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. Because
their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its wickedness, by
making it vomit out its inhabitants. You, however, whether natives or
resident aliens, must keep my statutes and decrees forbidding all such
abominations by which the previous inhabitants defiled the land;
otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just
as it vomited out the nations before you. Everyone who does any of
these abominations shall be cut off from among his people. Heed my
charge, then, not to defile yourselves by observing the abominable
customs that have been observed before you. I, the Lord, am your God."
Levitical law does not apply to me. Try again.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "If God had intended us to walk, he wouldn't *
* have invented roller skates." --Willy Wonka *
****************************************************
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| User: "taiki" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
06 Sep 2005 02:00:50 AM |
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wrote:
Leviticus 18: 19-30.
"You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she
is unclean from menstruation. You shall not have carnal relations with
your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer
any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the
name of your God. I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male as
with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have
carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a
woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things
are abhorrent.
"Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the nations
whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. Because
their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its wickedness, by
making it vomit out its inhabitants. You, however, whether natives or
resident aliens, must keep my statutes and decrees forbidding all such
abominations by which the previous inhabitants defiled the land;
otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just
as it vomited out the nations before you. Everyone who does any of
these abominations shall be cut off from among his people. Heed my
charge, then, not to defile yourselves by observing the abominable
customs that have been observed before you. I, the Lord, am your God."
Levitivus 19:18 refers to "loving your neighbor as you would love thyself."
I frequently masturbate.
How would that work itself out?
-taiki
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| User: "John Manning" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
06 Sep 2005 02:16:41 AM |
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taiki wrote:
vivapadrepio@aol.com wrote:
Leviticus 18: 19-30.
"You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she
is unclean from menstruation. You shall not have carnal relations with
your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer
any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the
name of your God. I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male as
with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have
carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a
woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things
are abhorrent.
"Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the nations
whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. Because
their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its wickedness, by
making it vomit out its inhabitants. You, however, whether natives or
resident aliens, must keep my statutes and decrees forbidding all such
abominations by which the previous inhabitants defiled the land;
otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just
as it vomited out the nations before you. Everyone who does any of
these abominations shall be cut off from among his people. Heed my
charge, then, not to defile yourselves by observing the abominable
customs that have been observed before you. I, the Lord, am your God."
Levitivus 19:18 refers to "loving your neighbor as you would love thyself."
I frequently masturbate.
How would that work itself out?
-taiki
I found this. It was sent to 'Dr' Laura
Schlessinger - who hates gays:
Dear Dr. Laura,
Thank you for doing so much to educate
people regarding God's
law. I have learned a great deal from you,
and I try to share
that knowledge with as many people as I can.
When someone tries
to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for
example, I simply remind
them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states
that it is an
abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you,
however, regarding some of the specific laws
and how best to
follow them.
When I burn a bull on the altar as a
sacrifice, I
know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord
(Lev. 1:9). The
problem is the neighbors. They claim the
odor is not pleasing to
them. How should I deal with this?
I would like to sell my
daughter into slavery, as it suggests in
Exodus 21:7. In this
day and age, what do you think would be a
fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a
woman while she is in
her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.
15: 19-24). The
problem is, how do I tell? I have tried
asking, but most women
take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the
nations that are around us. A friend of mine
claims that this
applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can
you clarify?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on
the Sabbath.
Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be
put to death. Am I morally
obligated to kill him myself?
A friend feels that even though
eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev
10:10), it is a lesser
abomination than homosexuality. I don't
agree. Can you settle
this?
Lev 20:20 states that I may not approach the
altar of God
if I have a defect in my sight. I have to
admit that I wear
glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or
is there some
wiggle room here? I know that you have
studied these things
extensively, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for
reminding us that God's word is eternal and
unchanging.
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| User: "James" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
06 Sep 2005 03:55:06 AM |
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taiki wrote:
vivapadrepio@aol.com wrote:
Leviticus 18: 19-30.
"You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she
is unclean from menstruation. You shall not have carnal relations with
your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer
any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the
name of your God. I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male as
with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have
carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a
woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things
are abhorrent.
"Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the nations
whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. Because
their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its wickedness, by
making it vomit out its inhabitants. You, however, whether natives or
resident aliens, must keep my statutes and decrees forbidding all such
abominations by which the previous inhabitants defiled the land;
otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just
as it vomited out the nations before you. Everyone who does any of
these abominations shall be cut off from among his people. Heed my
charge, then, not to defile yourselves by observing the abominable
customs that have been observed before you. I, the Lord, am your God."
Levitivus 19:18 refers to "loving your neighbor as you would love thyself."
I frequently masturbate.
How would that work itself out?
You'd be either very popular or very unpopular, depending on gender
distribution.
--
James B
aa #944
"A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence."
-David Hume
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| User: "Ash" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
06 Sep 2005 11:45:33 AM |
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wrote:
Leviticus 18: 19-30.
"You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she
is unclean from menstruation. You shall not have carnal relations with
your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer
any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the
name of your God. I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male as
with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have
carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a
woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things
are abhorrent.
How curious. all the other instructions are of the form "do not". The
instruction against lieing with a man has a seconf clause "as with a
woman" implying that it is ok to lie with a man as long as it is not
done the same way as with a woman, though no explanation of this is provided
"Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the nations
whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. Because
their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its wickedness, by
making it vomit out its inhabitants.
And a second modifier added. The above are not wrong of themselves, but
because they represent the acts the other nations have commited
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is NOT A Sin. Pt. 2. |
06 Sep 2005 02:13:19 PM |
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Apologies to alt.atheism if the poster to whom I am replying is not a
regular there - that's the only reason I didn't cut you guys out of this
message (there's stuff that could be considered missionizing in
nature, if not just plain old off-topic, below)
On 6-Sep-2005, Ash <ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
vivapadrepio@aol.com wrote:
Leviticus 18: 19-30.
"You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she
is unclean from menstruation. You shall not have carnal relations with
your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer
any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the
name of your God. I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male as
with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have
carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a
woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things
are abhorrent.
How curious. all the other instructions are of the form "do not". The
instruction against lieing with a man has a seconf clause "as with a
woman" implying that it is ok to lie with a man as long as it is not
done the same way as with a woman, though no explanation of this is
provided
Yeah, you noticed that, too, hmm?
As I keep trying to tell the brainless bigots who think they know Jewish
law better than Jews, only one act is barred, & the very state of being
gay is no different than that of being straight.
To say that "homosexuality is a sin" because of anal sex between men
is the same as saying "heterosexuality is a sin" because of rape/incest.
"Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the nations
whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. Because
their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its wickedness, by
making it vomit out its inhabitants.
And a second modifier added. The above are not wrong of themselves, but
because they represent the acts the other nations have commited
And because the ideal is to be married and have lots of children.
In fact, the injunction to m,ultiply is on *the man*, NOT the woman - even
tho' women are exempt from many obligations because we do have children.
which is another reason I keep pointing out that if Judaism is sexist, it's
the MEN who should complain!!
Susan
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
05 Sep 2005 10:59:28 PM |
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In episode <1125955890.854504.245500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
vivapadrepio@aol.com burst into the room and exclaimed:
Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2.
All those hungry, needy people after Katrina and you have time to worry
about other peoples' dicks?
Do you think about penises a lot?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
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| User: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
05 Sep 2005 11:17:32 PM |
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Don't all men?
*smirk*
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:4omdnUyufYZVUIHeRVn-1g@megapath.net...
:
: Do you think about penises a lot?
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| User: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
05 Sep 2005 10:05:53 PM |
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Leviticus is book written to and for JEWISH ADULTS.
The laws do not apply to non-Jews.
Thanks for playing you Catholic pagan scumbag.
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1125955890.854504.245500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: Leviticus 18: 19-30.
:
: "You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she
: is unclean from menstruation. You shall not have carnal relations
with
: your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer
: any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the
: name of your God. I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male as
: with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have
: carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall
a
: woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things
: are abhorrent.
:
: "Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the nations
: whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. Because
: their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its wickedness,
by
: making it vomit out its inhabitants. You, however, whether natives or
: resident aliens, must keep my statutes and decrees forbidding all such
: abominations by which the previous inhabitants defiled the land;
: otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just
: as it vomited out the nations before you. Everyone who does any of
: these abominations shall be cut off from among his people. Heed my
: charge, then, not to defile yourselves by observing the abominable
: customs that have been observed before you. I, the Lord, am your
God."
:
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
06 Sep 2005 05:43:30 AM |
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/Riain Barton wrote:
Leviticus is book written to and for JEWISH ADULTS.
And recuperated to edify proto-xians. What's wrong with that? (Except
for the fact that Leviticus is pure, total insanity.)
The laws do not apply to non-Jews.
And who the ***** are you to deprive idiots from believing in such crap?
Thanks for playing you Catholic pagan scumbag.
<snip idiotic garbage>
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
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| User: "Dave Fuller" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
05 Sep 2005 09:40:32 PM |
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What is your point?
Dave
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1125955890.854504.245500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Leviticus 18: 19-30.
"You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she
is unclean from menstruation. You shall not have carnal relations with
your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer
any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the
name of your God. I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male as
with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have
carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a
woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things
are abhorrent.
"Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the nations
whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. Because
their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its wickedness, by
making it vomit out its inhabitants. You, however, whether natives or
resident aliens, must keep my statutes and decrees forbidding all such
abominations by which the previous inhabitants defiled the land;
otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just
as it vomited out the nations before you. Everyone who does any of
these abominations shall be cut off from among his people. Heed my
charge, then, not to defile yourselves by observing the abominable
customs that have been observed before you. I, the Lord, am your God."
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
07 Sep 2005 03:26:33 AM |
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Dave Fuller wrote:
What is your point?
Dave
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1125955890.854504.245500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Leviticus 18: 19-30.
"You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she
is unclean from menstruation. You shall not have carnal relations with
your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not offer
any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the
name of your God. I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male as
with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have
carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a
woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things
are abhorrent.
"Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the nations
whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. Because
their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its wickedness, by
making it vomit out its inhabitants. You, however, whether natives or
resident aliens, must keep my statutes and decrees forbidding all such
abominations by which the previous inhabitants defiled the land;
otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just
as it vomited out the nations before you. Everyone who does any of
these abominations shall be cut off from among his people. Heed my
charge, then, not to defile yourselves by observing the abominable
customs that have been observed before you. I, the Lord, am your God."
Trying to save as many souls as is possible, while there's still time.
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| User: "Dave Fuller" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
07 Sep 2005 04:40:39 AM |
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<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126063593.690535.263350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Dave Fuller wrote:
What is your point?
Dave
Trying to save as many souls as is possible, while there's still time.
Exactly how do save souls by ticking people off?
D
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
07 Sep 2005 09:09:14 PM |
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Dave Fuller wrote:
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126063593.690535.263350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Dave Fuller wrote:
What is your point?
Dave
Trying to save as many souls as is possible, while there's still time.
Exactly how do save souls by ticking people off?
D
By teaching them the word of Christ. People need to do their part by
dissing their pride. Ah yes pride, the first deadly sin.
Does it bother me when they lash out? No. They lashed out at Christ,
why wouldn't they lash out at me?
It's like I've said before, you can learn the easy way or you can learn
the hard way. But you're going to learn.
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| User: "Dave Fuller" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
08 Sep 2005 05:14:45 AM |
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<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126127354.625136.293940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dave Fuller wrote:
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126063593.690535.263350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Dave Fuller wrote:
What is your point?
Dave
Trying to save as many souls as is possible, while there's still time.
Exactly how do save souls by ticking people off?
D
By teaching them the word of Christ. People need to do their part by
dissing their pride. Ah yes pride, the first deadly sin.
Well, seems like we have some words attributed to Moses and some attributed
to Paul, but I have yet to see anything this this thread that was attributed
to Jesus.
Does it bother me when they lash out? No. They lashed out at Christ,
why wouldn't they lash out at me?
Look at what your are doing and what Jesus was doing and then tell me,
honestly, that they are lashing out at you for the same reason.
It's like I've said before, you can learn the easy way or you can learn
the hard way. But you're going to learn.
I already have. Now, it is your turn.
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| User: "Gene Fuller" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
08 Sep 2005 07:41:52 AM |
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I think this is concerning whether Jesus ever said anything against
homosexual actions, and of course I think the answer is yes, but even if
not, I think that Moses was an authorized messenger who could legitimately
give God's directions and I think the same is true of Paul.
On the off chance that my first thought on reading this message was that a
claim was being made that we had no words of Jesus concerning pride, I will
give an example of the next best thing. The writer of the Gospel according
to Mark, said the following, attributing it to Jesus:
Mark 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the
man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts,
adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye,
blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9NPTe.92141$084.76921@attbi_s22...
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126127354.625136.293940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dave Fuller wrote:
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126063593.690535.263350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Dave Fuller wrote:
What is your point?
Dave
Trying to save as many souls as is possible, while there's still time.
Exactly how do save souls by ticking people off?
D
By teaching them the word of Christ. People need to do their part by
dissing their pride. Ah yes pride, the first deadly sin.
Well, seems like we have some words attributed to Moses and some
attributed to Paul, but I have yet to see anything this this thread that
was attributed to Jesus.
Does it bother me when they lash out? No. They lashed out at Christ,
why wouldn't they lash out at me?
Look at what your are doing and what Jesus was doing and then tell me,
honestly, that they are lashing out at you for the same reason.
It's like I've said before, you can learn the easy way or you can learn
the hard way. But you're going to learn.
I already have. Now, it is your turn.
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| User: "Parsifal" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
07 Sep 2005 09:29:01 PM |
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*By teaching them the word of Christ. People need to do their part by
*dissing their pride. Ah yes pride, the first deadly sin.
*Does it bother me when they lash out? No. They lashed out at Christ,
*why wouldn't they lash out at me?
*It's like I've said before, you can learn the easy way or you can
learn
*the hard way. But you're going to learn.
This is an interesting posting from someone who is absolutely convinced
of being right. Almost to the point of sounding arrogant. Yet, this
person says that "pride is the first deadly sin"... Hmmmm... Here's
something to meditate on...
Aren't Christians with their arrogance not guilty of a capital sin?
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| User: "Dave Fuller" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
08 Sep 2005 05:16:30 AM |
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"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126128541.344647.74720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
*By teaching them the word of Christ. People need to do their part by
*dissing their pride. Ah yes pride, the first deadly sin.
*Does it bother me when they lash out? No. They lashed out at Christ,
*why wouldn't they lash out at me?
*It's like I've said before, you can learn the easy way or you can
learn
*the hard way. But you're going to learn.
This is an interesting posting from someone who is absolutely convinced
of being right. Almost to the point of sounding arrogant. Yet, this
person says that "pride is the first deadly sin"... Hmmmm... Here's
something to meditate on...
Aren't Christians with their arrogance not guilty of a capital sin?
Yes, but many Xians have this neat belief system that it is okay for them to
commit capital sins because they are Xian.
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| User: "Gene Fuller" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
08 Sep 2005 07:24:35 AM |
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"Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OOPTe.92145$084.18062@attbi_s22...
"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126128541.344647.74720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
*By teaching them the word of Christ. People need to do their part by
*dissing their pride. Ah yes pride, the first deadly sin.
*Does it bother me when they lash out? No. They lashed out at Christ,
*why wouldn't they lash out at me?
*It's like I've said before, you can learn the easy way or you can
learn
*the hard way. But you're going to learn.
This is an interesting posting from someone who is absolutely convinced
of being right. Almost to the point of sounding arrogant. Yet, this
person says that "pride is the first deadly sin"... Hmmmm... Here's
something to meditate on...
Aren't Christians with their arrogance not guilty of a capital sin?
Yes, but many Xians have this neat belief system that it is okay for them
to commit capital sins because they are Xian.
Yes, that may be true. It does not make them unique, however. It is a trait
they share with other human beings. that may be one reason that almost all
the people that you and I have ever known walking around on earth have still
been mortals. Still not perfect. Do you have some insight that gives you
perfect knowledge that they realize completely what they are doing?
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| User: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
07 Sep 2005 09:50:42 PM |
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Christ didn't exist you babbling fool.
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126127354.625136.293940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
:
: Dave Fuller wrote:
: > <vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
: > news:1126063593.690535.263350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
: > >
: > > Dave Fuller wrote:
: > >> What is your point?
: > >>
: > >> Dave
: > >
: > > Trying to save as many souls as is possible, while there's still
time.
: >
: > Exactly how do save souls by ticking people off?
: >
: > D
:
: By teaching them the word of Christ. People need to do their part by
: dissing their pride. Ah yes pride, the first deadly sin.
:
: Does it bother me when they lash out? No. They lashed out at Christ,
: why wouldn't they lash out at me?
:
: It's like I've said before, you can learn the easy way or you can
learn
: the hard way. But you're going to learn.
:
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
08 Sep 2005 03:30:03 PM |
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On 7 Sep 2005 14:09:14 -0700, "vivapadrepio@aol.com"
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote:
Dave Fuller wrote:
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126063593.690535.263350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Dave Fuller wrote:
What is your point?
Dave
Trying to save as many souls as is possible, while there's still time.
Exactly how do save souls by ticking people off?
D
By teaching them the word of Christ. People need to do their part by
dissing their pride. Ah yes pride, the first deadly sin.
Ah yes, evidence, your total lack of it.
Does it bother me when they lash out? No. They lashed out at Christ,
why wouldn't they lash out at me?
It's like I've said before, you can learn the easy way or you can learn
the hard way. But you're going to learn.
Too bad you have nothing to offer beyond your assertions and your
arrogance. With actual evidence you would not sound like a babbling
idiot.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
07 Sep 2005 09:53:07 PM |
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http://jdstone.org/cr/files/critmosh.html
CRITERIA OF HA MOSHIACH (THE Messiah) ACCORDING TO HEBREW SCRIPUTURE
1. Must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10
2. Must be a direct descendent of both King David and King Solomon (l
Chronicles 17:11; Psalm 89:29-38; Jeremiah 33:17; ll Samuel 7:12-16; l
Chronicles 22:10 and ll Chronicles 7:18)
3. Must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel
(Isaiah 27:12-13 & 11:12)
4. Must rebuild the Jewish Temple (the 3rd Temple) (Micah 4:1)
5. Must bring in “world peace” (Isaiah 2:4; 11:6 & Micah 4:3)
6. Must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve the One
God of Israel (Isaiah 11:9; Isaiah 40:5; and Zephaniah 3:9)
All of these criteria for the Messiah are best stated in the book of
Ezekiel, Chapter 37:24-28 – if an individual fails to fulfill even ONE
of these conditions, he cannot be the Jewish Messiah!
In other words, God told His Prophets His criteria of HaMoshiach during
the Messianic era. Why would God change His mind?
Now, if you want to set up another set of rules, OK, but that will NOT
be according to Hebrew Scriptures, which Christianity needs so badly to
verify their existence.
According to Christianity, Jesus had no human father. Therefore, the
discussion of Jesus as the Messiah stops here. Nowhere in Hebrew
Scriptures does the Royal Blood Line continue by adoption. The Jewish
Scriptures clearly state that a person’s genealogy and tribal membership
is transmitted exclusively through one’s PHYSICAL father (Numbers 1:18
Jeremiah 33:17)
Nowhere in Hebrew Scripture does it ever say that during the Messianic
era, HaMoshiach will come back a second time to fulfill the events that
had to occur during his time on Earth. And nowhere in Hebrew Scriptures
does it say that HaMoshiach would be a deity. Judaism understands the
Messiah to be a human being with no connotation of deity or divinity.
If Christianity wants to make a man a deity, so let it – that is a pagan
belief taken from pre-existing pagan doctrines stolen from the Mitraic
worship, Zoroaster, Tammuz, Adonis, Krishna, Osiris, Isis,
Dionysus-Bacchus, Buddha and others. These pagan myths all believed:
Born on December 25
Born of a Virgin
Divinely inspired and became a deity and later worshipped
Had visions and revelations and taught ethics
Went to school as a child and his teachers were surprised at his
knowledge
Performed great miracles and restored life to a dead person
Birth announced by a star and a Trinity concept and died a violent death
Descended into Hades and rose from the Dead
Was expected to return in the “later days”
The Christian myth grew by absorbing pagan cults. The Christ had to have
a Virgin for a mother. Like the image of the child-god in the cult of
Dionysus, he was pictured in swaddling clothes in a basket manger. He
was born in a stable like Horus--the stable temple of the Virgin
Goddess, Isis, Queen of Heaven. Again, like Dionysus, he turned water
into wine &; his resurrection took place, like that of Mithra, from a
rock tomb.
The idea of a suffering god atoning by his death for the sins of men who
descend into the darkness and rose again to bring life is NOT new. The
idea of someone performing many miracles is also not new – many people
before Jesus performed many miracles. All the Egyptian prophets, during
Moses time performed miracles. Many Oriental cultures performed miracles
also.
Christianity is not the only religion in human history to proclaim to
the Jewish people that their savior or demigod was resurrected from the
grave. The claim of a deity who has defeated the grip of death is one
of the most common themes embedded in the flood of religions that have
emerged since time immemorial.
Christianity’s whole premise is based on this ONE point?The
Resurrection.
Paul said to his listeners, “If Christ be not risen, then is our
preaching vain and your faith is also vain” (I Corinthians 15:14).
Where does it say that being resurrected makes one a deity? Judaism
believes in the resurrection of the dead too. Elisha returns the child
to life in 2 Kings 4:34-35. Even in the end of days, there will be the
resurrection of all the dead (Isaiah 26:18 and Ezekiel 37:12. And what
more can be proved by Jesus' physical resurrection than that of the
resurrection of Lazarus, the widow's son, or the numerous cases reported
in oriental history? How does this make anyone a deity?
So, as you can clearly see, Jesus in no way can be the Jewish
HaMoshiach. Jesus can be:
A pagan messiah, YES!
A Jewish messiah, NO!
One more point, nowhere in Hebrew Scriptures does it ever tell that G-d
(HaShem) would come to earth as a human being, a man and die, as a human
sacrifice.
HaShem told us that human sacrifice was an abomination to him.
Human Sacrifices are “An Abomination!”
Biblical References
Lev.18:21;
Deut. 12:3;
Jer. 7:31 & 32:35;
2 Kings 16:3 & 17;
Ezekiel 20:31, and
Psalms 106:32-38
Again, why would God change his mind?
He would not!
He does not!
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126127354.625136.293940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
:
: Dave Fuller wrote:
: > <vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
: > news:1126063593.690535.263350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
: > >
: > > Dave Fuller wrote:
: > >> What is your point?
: > >>
: > >> Dave
: > >
: > > Trying to save as many souls as is possible, while there's still
time.
: >
: > Exactly how do save souls by ticking people off?
: >
: > D
:
: By teaching them the word of Christ. People need to do their part by
: dissing their pride. Ah yes pride, the first deadly sin.
:
: Does it bother me when they lash out? No. They lashed out at Christ,
: why wouldn't they lash out at me?
:
: It's like I've said before, you can learn the easy way or you can
learn
: the hard way. But you're going to learn.
:
.
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| User: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
07 Sep 2005 09:52:15 PM |
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http://jdstone.org/cr/files/messiahsrole.html
MESSIAH’S ROLE
Edited by Hugh Fogelman
The Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) is clear on the role of THE Messiah,
HaMoshiach. Although there are many sections throughout the Hebrew
Scriptures that vividly describe how the world will be forever
transformed with the arrival of the messiah, very few are about the
messiah personally. It is clear the role of HaMoshiach is NOT that set
forth in Christianity.
The reason Judaism does not accept the Christian messiah is because
Jesus fulfilled none of the messianic prophecies clearly foretold in the
Hebrew Scriptures that God Himself told His prophets. The following is
an overview of the central messianic prophecies outlined in the Hebrew
scriptures that both Judaism and Christianity agree are messianic:
World Peace:
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and
they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into
pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither
shall they learn war any more. (Isaiah 2:4)
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down
with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together .
.. . and the sucking child shall play on the hole of the cobra . . . .
(Isaiah 11:6-8)
Universal Knowledge of God:
.. . . for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the
waters cover the sea. (Isaiah 11:9)
No longer shall one teach his neighbor or shall one teach his brother,
saying, “Know the Lord,” for they shall all know Me, from their smallest
to their greatest,” says the Lord . . . . (Jeremiah 31:33)
And the Lord shall be king over all the earth. In that day shall there
be one Lord, and His name one. (Zechariah 14:9)
Resurrection of the Dead:
Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise.
Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust, for thy dew is as the dew of
herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (Isaiah 26:19)
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some
to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel
12:2)
Therefore, prophesy and say to them, “So says the Lord God, ‘Lo! I open
your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves as My people,
and bring you home to the land of Israel. Then you shall know that I am
the Lord, when I open your graves and lead you up out of your graves as
My people.’ “ (Ezekiel 37:12-13)
Ingathering of Israel:
.. . . I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather you from the west.
I will say to the north, “Give up,” and to the south, “Keep not back,
bring My sons from far, and My daughter from the ends of the earth.”
(See also Jeremiah 16:15, 23:3; Isaiah 11:12; Zechariah 10:6; Ezekiel
37:21-22) (Isaiah 43:5-6)
Building of The Third Temple:
.. . . and I will set My Sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. My
temple also shall be with them. Yes, I will be their God and they shall
be My people. And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify
Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them forevermore.
(See also Ezekiel 40-48; Isaiah 33:20) (Ezekiel 37:26-28)
When we consider that countless individuals and enthusiastic followers
have made messianic claims throughout history, none of these messiahs
fulfilled any one of the prophecies clearly outlined in the Hebrew
Scriptures.
When the Christian claim of Jesus’ messiahship is considered, it is
quite clear that the very opposite had occurred during the century that
marks the birth of Christianity. In fact, during this first century
there was no resurrection of the dead as prophesied by Daniel and
Isaiah. Instead, the Romans slaughtered many hundreds of thousands of
Jews during this time. No one got up and lived! There was no ingathering
of the exiles either. Instead, the Jewish people were exiled from their
land and dispersed throughout the Roman Empire. The universal knowledge
of God did not take place at that time as well. Rather, as a result of
this exile, the knowledge of Torah and its observance decreased. There
was no Temple built at any time during the first century, although a
temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in the year 70 C.E.
As stated before – yes, there are many sections throughout the Hebrew
Scriptures that vividly describe how the world will be forever
transformed with the arrival of the messiah, BUT there are very few are
about the messiah personally. Why? Because, in Torah, the concept of
the messiah is not that important. Ha Moshiach era will be the End of
Days – Judaism is concern with now and how we can make the world better
in our lives, using the past as our teaching tool. Clearly, there is no
relationship between what the Bible says about the messiah and what the
Messianic movement teaches about Jesus.
Besides, as outlined in Ezekiel 37, and the rest of God’s prophets, no
one yet has accomplished anything God said. When the time comes, when
someone fulfills ALL the criteria established by God, then the Jews and
the world will know HaMoshiach has arrived. Plain and simple – don’t
make up your own set of rules; read what God told His prophets about the
requirements at the End of Days, the Messianic Era. And read it in the
Hebrew Scriptures.
When and if Jesus fulfills ONLY those requirements set forth by God,
then he will be named HaMoshiach – until then – if he existed, he was
just another poor Jew who died on the cross.
PS:
Nowhere in God’s Scriptures is it stated that HaMoshiach has to come a
“Second” time to fulfill the criteria that God revealed to His prophets.
No Christian can show any reference in the Tanakh, the Hebrew Bible that
a “Second Coming” was needed.
That Second Coming theory was only Christian Apologists feeble attempt
to explain why Jesus failed in his First Coming. Such an embarrassment!
It is very sad, with the Christian blind-faith mindset, that they buy
into that “Second Coming” excuse. Why not have a Third Coming concept?
How do Christians know that God’s prophecies will come true in the
Second Coming? Yes, sad, indeed.
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126127354.625136.293940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
:
: Dave Fuller wrote:
: > <vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
: > news:1126063593.690535.263350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
: > >
: > > Dave Fuller wrote:
: > >> What is your point?
: > >>
: > >> Dave
: > >
: > > Trying to save as many souls as is possible, while there's still
time.
: >
: > Exactly how do save souls by ticking people off?
: >
: > D
:
: By teaching them the word of Christ. People need to do their part by
: dissing their pride. Ah yes pride, the first deadly sin.
:
: Does it bother me when they lash out? No. They lashed out at Christ,
: why wouldn't they lash out at me?
:
: It's like I've said before, you can learn the easy way or you can
learn
: the hard way. But you're going to learn.
:
.
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| User: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
07 Sep 2005 09:54:11 PM |
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http://jdstone.org/cr/files/whyyoushouldnotbelieveinjesus.html
Why You Should Not Believe In Jesus
Rabbi Shraga Simmons (Edited by John Stone)
In the wake of Mel Gibson’s phenomenally successful film and the
production company’s ambitious plans to market the film worldwide to
“the faithless,” taking advantage of what is perhaps “the best Christian
outreach opportunity in 2,000 years,” it is important for people to
understand why they should not “believe” in Jesus.
The purpose is not to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify
the position set forth in God’s SOURCE DOCUMENT?Torah.
One should not accept Jesus as the messiah because:
1) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
2) Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
3) Biblical verses “referring” to Jesus are mistranslations.
4) Jewish knowledge is based on national revelation.
But first, some background: What exactly is the Messiah?
The word “Messiah” is an English rendering of the Hebrew word
“Mashiach,” which means “Anointed.” It usually refers to a person
initiated into God’s service by being anointed with oil. (Exodus 29:7, I
Kings 1:39, II Kings 9:3)
Since every King and High Priest was anointed with oil, each may be
referred to as “an anointed one” (a Mashiach or a Messiah). For example:
“God forbid that I [David] should stretch out my hand against the Lord’s
Messiah [Saul]...” (I Samuel 26:11. Cf. II Samuel 23:1, Isaiah 45:1,
Psalms 20:6)
Where does the Torah concept of Messiah come from? One of the central
themes of Biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection
characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4;
Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Isaiah 32:15-18, 60:15-18;
Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)
Many of these prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David who
will rule Israel during the age of perfection. (Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah
23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28; Hosea 3:4-5)
Since every King is a Messiah, by convention, we refer to this future
anointed king as The Messiah. The above is the only description in the
Bible of a Davidic descendant who is to come in the future. One will
recognize the Messiah by seeing who the King of Israel is at the time of
complete universal perfection.
________________________
1. JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
a. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
b. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
c. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression,
suffering and disease. As it says: “Nation shall not lift up sword
against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4)
d. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite
humanity as one. As it says: “God will be King over all the world?on
that day, God will be One and His Name will be One” (Zechariah 14:9).
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he
cannot be “The Messiah.”
Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible’s description of this future
King, Jews and Noachides still await the coming of the Messiah. All past
Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and
Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming,
but Torah sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies
outright. The Hebrew Bible has no concept of a second coming.
________________________
2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH
a. Messiah As Prophet
The Messiah will become the greatest prophet in history, second only to
Moses. (Targum - Isaiah 11:2; Maimonides - Yad Teshuva 9:2)
Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a
majority of world Jewry, a situation which has not existed since 300
BCE. During the time of Ezra, when the majority of Jews refused to move
from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last
?Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.
Jesus was not a prophet; he appeared on the scene approximately 350
years after prophecy had ended.
b. Descendent Of David
According to Torah sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents
and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be
a demi-god, 1 nor will he possess supernatural qualities.
The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see
Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24).
According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin
birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled
the messianic requirement of being descended on his father’s side from
King David. 2
c. Torah Observance
The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The
Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming
to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut.
13:1-4)
Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states
that its commandments are no longer applicable. (See John 1:45 and 9:16,
Acts 3:22 and 7:37)
____________________
3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES “REFERRING” TO JESUS
Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew
text?which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation.
a. Virgin Birth
The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah
7:14 describing an “alma” as giving birth. The word “alma” has always
meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and
translated it as “virgin.” This accords Jesus’ birth with the first
century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.
b. Suffering Servant
Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the
“suffering servant.”
In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52,
describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies
are written in the singular form because the Jews (“Israel”) are
regarded as one unit. Throughout Jewish scripture, Israel is repeatedly
called, in the singular, the “Servant of God” (see Isaiah 43:8). In
fact, Isaiah states no less than 11 times in the chapters prior to 53
that the Servant of God is Israel. When read correctly, Isaiah 53
clearly [and ironically] refers to the Jewish people being “bruised,
crushed and as sheep brought to slaughter” at the hands of the nations
of the world. These descriptions are used throughout Jewish scripture to
graphically describe the suffering of the Jewish people (see Psalm 44).
Isaiah 53 concludes that when the Jewish people are redeemed, the
nations will recognize and accept responsibility for the inordinate
suffering and death of the Jews.
For further reading, go to:
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-ss.html
______________________
4) TORAH WISDOM IS BASED DIRECTLY ON NATIONAL REVELATION
Throughout history, thousands of religions have been started by
individuals, attempting to convince people that he or she is God’s true
prophet. But personal revelation is an extremely weak basis for a
religion because one can never know if it is indeed true. Since others
did not hear God speak to this person, they have to take his word for
it. Even if the individual claiming personal revelation performs
miracles, there is still no verification that he is a genuine prophet.
Miracles do not prove anything. All they show?assuming they are
genuine?is that he has certain powers. It has nothing to do with his
claim of prophecy.
Judaism, unique among all of the world’s major religions, does not rely
on “claims of miracles” as the basis for its religion. In fact, the
Bible says that God sometimes grants the power of “miracles” to
charlatans, to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4).
Of the thousands of religions in human history, only Judaism bases its
belief on national revelation?i.e. God speaking to the entire nation. If
God is going to start a religion, it makes sense He’ll tell everyone,
not just one person.
Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8):
The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles
he performed. Whenever anyone’s belief is based on seeing miracles, he
has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed
through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the
desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his
prophecy.
What then was the basis of [Jewish/Torah] belief? The Revelation at
Mount Sinai, which all Jews saw with their own eyes and heard with their
own ears, not dependent on the testimony of others... as it says, “Face
to face, God spoke with you...” The Torah also states: “God did not make
this covenant with our fathers, but with us?who are all here alive
today.” (Deut. 5:3)
Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of
every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai over 3,315 years
ago. For further reading: “Did God Speak at Mount Sinai?”
WAITING FOR THE MESSIAH
The world is in desperate need of Messianic redemption. And to the
extent we are aware of the problems of society, is the extent we will
yearn for redemption. As the Talmud says, one of the first questions
asked of a Jew on Judgment Day is: “Did you yearn for the arrival of the
Messiah?”
How can we hasten the coming of the Messiah? The best way is to love all
humanity generously, to keep the mitzvot of the Torah (as best one can),
and to encourage others to do so as well.
Despite the gloom, the world does seem headed toward redemption. One
apparent sign is that the Jewish people have returned to the Land of
Israel and made it bloom again. Additionally, a major movement is afoot
of young Jews returning to Torah tradition.
The Messiah can come any day, and it all depends on our actions. God is
ready when we are. For as King David says: “Redemption will come
today?if you hearken to His voice.”
FOOTNOTES
1.Maimonides devotes much of the “Guide for the Perplexed” to the
fundamental idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no
physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space.
He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form
makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the
Torah says: “God is not a mortal” (Numbers 23:19).
2. In response, it is claimed that Joseph adopted Jesus, and passed on
his genealogy via adoption. There are two problems with this claim:
a) There is no Biblical basis for the idea of a father passing on his
tribal line by adoption. A priest who adopts a son from another tribe
cannot make him a priest by adoption;
b) Joseph could never pass on by adoption that which he doesn’t have.
Because Joseph descended from Jeconiah (Matthew 1:11) he fell under the
curse of that king that none of his descendants could ever sit as king
upon the throne of David. (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30)
To answer this difficult problem, apologists claim that Jesus traces
himself back to King David through his mother Mary, who allegedly
descends from David, as shown in the third chapter of Luke. There are
four basic problems with this claim:
a) There is no evidence that Mary descends from David. The third chapter
of Luke traces Joseph’s genealogy, not Mary’s.
b) Even if Mary can trace herself back to David, that doesn’t help
Jesus, since tribal affiliation goes only through the father, not
mother. Cf. Numbers 1:18; Ezra 2:59.
c) Even if family line could go through the mother, Mary was not from a
legitimate Messianic family. According to the Bible, the Messiah must be
a descendent of David through his son Solomon (II Samuel 7:14; I
Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6). The third chapter of Luke is
irrelevant to this discussion because it describes lineage of David’s
son Nathan, not Solomon. (Luke 3:31)
d) Luke 3:27 lists Shealtiel and Zerubbabel in his genealogy. These two
also appear in Matthew 1:12 as descendants of the cursed Jeconiah. If
Mary descends from them, it would also disqualify her from being a
Messianic progenitor.
Author Biography:
Rabbi Shraga Simmons spent his childhood trekking through snow in
Buffalo, New York. He has worked in the fields of journalism and public
relations, and is now the Co-editor of Aish.com in Jerusalem.
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126127354.625136.293940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
:
: Dave Fuller wrote:
: > <vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
: > news:1126063593.690535.263350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
: > >
: > > Dave Fuller wrote:
: > >> What is your point?
: > >>
: > >> Dave
: > >
: > > Trying to save as many souls as is possible, while there's still
time.
: >
: > Exactly how do save souls by ticking people off?
: >
: > D
:
: By teaching them the word of Christ. People need to do their part by
: dissing their pride. Ah yes pride, the first deadly sin.
:
: Does it bother me when they lash out? No. They lashed out at Christ,
: why wouldn't they lash out at me?
:
: It's like I've said before, you can learn the easy way or you can
learn
: the hard way. But you're going to learn.
:
.
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| User: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
07 Sep 2005 04:54:02 AM |
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Souls are from God, they do not need to be saved.
<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126063593.690535.263350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
:
: Dave Fuller wrote:
: > What is your point?
: >
: > Dave
: >
: > <vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
: > news:1125955890.854504.245500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: > > Leviticus 18: 19-30.
: > >
: > > "You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while
she
: > > is unclean from menstruation. You shall not have carnal relations
with
: > > your neighbor's wife, defiling yourself with her. You shall not
offer
: > > any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning
the
: > > name of your God. I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male
as
: > > with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have
: > > carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor
shall a
: > > woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such
things
: > > are abhorrent.
: > >
: > > "Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the
nations
: > > whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves.
Because
: > > their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its
wickedness, by
: > > making it vomit out its inhabitants. You, however, whether
natives or
: > > resident aliens, must keep my statutes and decrees forbidding all
such
: > > abominations by which the previous inhabitants defiled the land;
: > > otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it,
just
: > > as it vomited out the nations before you. Everyone who does any
of
: > > these abominations shall be cut off from among his people. Heed
my
: > > charge, then, not to defile yourselves by observing the abominable
: > > customs that have been observed before you. I, the Lord, am your
God."
: > >
:
: Trying to save as many souls as is possible, while there's still time.
:
.
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| User: "JPG" |
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| Title: Re: Homosexuality Is A Sin. Pt. 2. |
06 Sep 2005 12:12:18 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 21:40:32 GMT, "Dave Fuller" <crazy_aardvark@hotmail.com>
wrote:
What is your point?
It's on the top of his head.
.
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