How About this for a Jesus Myth?



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Budikka666"
Date: 12 Nov 2005 01:21:58 PM
Object: How About this for a Jesus Myth?
Some rather interesting information spills into the light in Acts 15
Supposedly Peter decides to send observers with Saul-Paul on his
travels. That's rather strange given that Saul-Paul claims direct
authority from a god. But then so does Peter. This is one the first
indications that the mythical Jesus failed in his mission.
But who should go? Believe it or not, one of those chosen is Jesus's
right hand man - Judas - the guy we're told died in two different
stories by two different means, Well, he's still alive and well, only
now he isn't described as Judas of Kerioth, but as Judas Bar Sabas (son
of Sabas). Note that in Acts 1:23, there is another Bar Sabas, called
Joseph. Note also that Jesus was purported to have siblings, two of
whom were named Judas and Joseph.
Curiously, the word 'sabas' means rest, but it also relates to the
people of Sabea, a place known for exporting gold, frankincense, and
myrrh. Ring any bells?! It's also connected with The Queen of Saba
who visited Solomon. Any children born of that meeting would be a
descendent of the House of David.
Next we have the curious personages of Joseph of Arimathaea and
Nicodemus. Both are said to be wealthy. Both are said to be very
important men. Both are said to be members of the Sanhedrin. But
Nicodemus is mentioned in no book in the Bible save that of the
purported gospel of John. The name, Nicodemus, means "victorious among
his people". That's an interesting name for anyone in that tomb, isn't
it?
The two are never mentioned together, either, except when John claims
they were the sole two people who arranged the post-crucifixion burial
of the mythical Messiah. They were the only ones who actually knew the
truth. They could, for all we know, have been the same person. They
could, for all we know, have been Caiaphas, the high priest whose given
name is sometimes puported to be Joseph. But read on.
Joseph is described as an honorable man - the same description given to
the Joseph who Matthew claims is the father of this Jesus. Mark, the
earliest gospel, makes no mention of any father figure. The writer of
this gospel mentions the name Joseph only twice, as Joseph of
Arimathaea. So the only two people who were at the burial are Joseph,
who could have been Caiaphas, Jesus's father, and "one who is
victorious among his people" - aka Jesus aka Nicodemus.
The hundred pounds of myrrh and aloes employed in this burial ritual
would have been out of the question for the average Jewish burial,
where more like 1% of that material might be employed. Ridiculously
large amounts were only used for people who were very wealthy and/or
had earned great respect. Writers argue that such respect was due to
Jesus and that "Nicodemus" was wealthy and devoted enough to give it,
but one hundred pounds of embalming materials was also the weight of a
body in that day and age!
If it were properly wrapped in linen (the Jewish burial ritual entailed
bodies being tightly bound in linen bandages, not slipped into a folded
14 foot cloth like meat into a taco as the Turin shroud depicts), such
a weight of material could look exactly like a body. Anyone glancing
into the tomb would believe someone was buried there. Until they
examined it in the cold light of dawn and leapt to the conclusion that
their rabbi was resurrected!
Then Jesus "ascends" to his second coming as Saul-Paul (Saul means
'asked for', Paul means 'little one' - the little one that was asked
for - the young Messiah!) and takes off on his travels spreading the
word about this "Jesus" who purportedly was risen from the dead!
So was there a Jesus, miracle working son of a god? No! of course not.
It's certainly possible, however, that there may have been someone who
had brothers Joseph and Judas to help him, and a father Joseph heading
the Sanhedrin to oil the wheels of the plan, who could recover a
drugged body before death (or even a dead body to be quietly disposed
of) before putting a fake aloes and myrrh "body" into the tomb, which
would be misinterpreted as a resurrection when it was later discovered.
Of course, this explanation is just as much ***** as the traditional
NT story, but it is just as well-supported as that story and it makes
more sense! The truth is probably that this "resurrection" is nothing
more than a resurrected pagan myth of rebirth in the spring larded up
with Judaic ritual and mythology and a ton of junk that was
magnetically attracted to the fable once it got some traction. That's
how myths begin, after all.
Budikka
.

User: "Elroy Willis"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 13 Nov 2005 01:39:42 PM
Budikka666 <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in alt.atheism

Some rather interesting information spills into the light in Acts 15

<snip>

The two are never mentioned together, either, except when John claims
they were the sole two people who arranged the post-crucifixion burial
of the mythical Messiah. They were the only ones who actually knew the
truth. They could, for all we know, have been the same person. They
could, for all we know, have been Caiaphas, the high priest whose given
name is sometimes puported to be Joseph. But read on.
Joseph is described as an honorable man - the same description given to
the Joseph who Matthew claims is the father of this Jesus. Mark, the
earliest gospel, makes no mention of any father figure. The writer of
this gospel mentions the name Joseph only twice, as Joseph of
Arimathaea. So the only two people who were at the burial are Joseph,
who could have been Caiaphas, Jesus's father, and "one who is
victorious among his people" - aka Jesus aka Nicodemus.

Since you're playing with conspiracy theories, here's mine...
Do a Google search for "Flavius Josephus Caiaphas" and you'll find all
kinds of interesting stuff to read,
It's believed by many people that Josephus the Jewish historian is the
same person as Joseph Caiaphas, the high priest at the time of Jesus
arrest and supposed trial.
The Jewish Encyclopedia mentions the connection, as well as some
Syrian Christian texts.
He's reported to have "converted to Christianity" before he died.
If you take out the vowels in his name, as was common among written
languages of the time, it renders as CPHS.
John 1:42
"And he brought him to Jesus.
Jesus looked at him and said, "You are Simon son of John. You will be
called Cephas" (which, when translated, is Peter)."
Interestingly, if you take the vowels out of Cephas, you also get
CPHS.
Both Cephas and Peter mean "rock."
So not only was Caiaphas the high priest, he was also Peter the *rock*
and founder of a new sect of Judaism which spawned Christianity
when he was kicked out of office in 37 AD.
He had no where to go, and was accustomed to the "high life" as a high
priest. Not wanting to give that up, he teamed up with some Roman
theologians and they weaved a few Jewish ideas, like the messiah idea,
into their new religion which he profited from until the day he died.
Believe it or not... :)
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
User: "Budikka666"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 15 Nov 2005 09:04:36 PM
Elroy Willis wrote:

Since you're playing with conspiracy theories, here's mine...

Do a Google search for "Flavius Josephus Caiaphas" and you'll find all
kinds of interesting stuff to read,

Talking of conspiracy! I did exactly that just now and it came back
with zero results! I *know* I've seen that name before. I think it
cropped up when I was doing some background reading before actually
starting this thread. Clearly the men in black ar eonto us and hiding
the material! LoL!

It's believed by many people that Josephus the Jewish historian is the
same person as Joseph Caiaphas, the high priest at the time of Jesus
arrest and supposed trial.

Well I've seen various dates for Josephus, but it's my understanding
that he wasn't born until the later 30'sAD which makes it kinda hard
for him to have been the high priest! LoL! Maybe he was actually
*Jesus* and they faked the DoB?!!

The Jewish Encyclopedia mentions the connection, as well as some
Syrian Christian texts.

I ahven;t looked at that. The New Advent Catholic Enclyclo puts his
dates at AD37 - AD101.

He's reported to have "converted to Christianity" before he died.

Aren't they all?!

If you take out the vowels in his name, as was common among written
languages of the time, it renders as CPHS.

John 1:42
"And he brought him to Jesus.
Jesus looked at him and said, "You are Simon son of John. You will be
called Cephas" (which, when translated, is Peter)."

Interestingly, if you take the vowels out of Cephas, you also get
CPHS.

Both Cephas and Peter mean "rock."

That only works in English! However, the Greek pronunciation of these
two words make them much closer, phonetically. But then that's gree.
The Aramaic words were different.

So not only was Caiaphas the high priest, he was also Peter the *rock*
and founder of a new sect of Judaism which spawned Christianity
when he was kicked out of office in 37 AD.

It really doesn't hold water any better than the original, but it makes
for a far better story!

He had no where to go, and was accustomed to the "high life" as a high
priest. Not wanting to give that up, he teamed up with some Roman
theologians and they weaved a few Jewish ideas, like the messiah idea,
into their new religion which he profited from until the day he died.

Believe it or not... :)

Not! But we could try seeing how many people we can lure into
believing it! There was actually someone (whose well-known name, of
course, completely escapes me for the moment) who wrote a novel on this
topic some years ago - setting out the idea that Jesus and Judas were
in on this plan to fake his resurrection. It wouldn't be possible to
get much traction in a story Like that if the Biblical fable wasn't so
full of holes and even suggestive of such a thing in many places.
Now I have to go find the Jewish Enclycopedia, damn you!
B.
.
User: "Elroy Willis"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 15 Nov 2005 09:41:40 PM
Budikka666 <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in alt.atheism

Elroy Willis wrote:

Since you're playing with conspiracy theories, here's mine...
Do a Google search for "Flavius Josephus Caiaphas" and you'll find all
kinds of interesting stuff to read,

Talking of conspiracy! I did exactly that just now and it came back
with zero results!

Try again, you must've misspelled something.

I *know* I've seen that name before. I think it
cropped up when I was doing some background reading before actually
starting this thread. Clearly the men in black ar eonto us and hiding
the material! LoL!

It's believed by many people that Josephus the Jewish historian is the
same person as Joseph Caiaphas, the high priest at the time of Jesus
arrest and supposed trial.

Well I've seen various dates for Josephus, but it's my understanding
that he wasn't born until the later 30'sAD which makes it kinda hard
for him to have been the high priest! LoL! Maybe he was actually
*Jesus* and they faked the DoB?!!

Doesn't bode too well for the theory, eh? :)

The Jewish Encyclopedia mentions the connection, as well as some
Syrian Christian texts.

I ahven;t looked at that. The New Advent Catholic Enclyclo puts his
dates at AD37 - AD101.

He's reported to have "converted to Christianity" before he died.

Aren't they all?!
Now I have to go find the Jewish Enclycopedia, damn you!

From:
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=26&letter=C&search=Caiaphas
"It was said later in the Syrian Church that he had been converted to
Christianity, and was identical with the historian Josephus Flavius
(Assemani, "Bibl. Orient." ii. 156, iii. 522; Solomon of Bassora, "The
Book of the Bee," ed. Budge, tr. p. 94). His house outside Jerusalem
is still (1902) shown."
From:
http://www.earth-history.com/Pseudepigrapha/Bee/bee-41-45.htm
".. Caiaphas, who condemned our Lord, is Josephus."
Looks like there were two different Josephus Caiaphas characters to
me.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.

User: ""

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 16 Nov 2005 02:11:26 AM
In <1132088676.512138.201320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, on 11/15/05
at 01:04 PM, "Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> said:

Elroy Willis wrote:

Since you're playing with conspiracy theories, here's mine...

Do a Google search for "Flavius Josephus Caiaphas" and you'll find all
kinds of interesting stuff to read,

Talking of conspiracy! I did exactly that just now and it came back with
zero results! I *know* I've seen that name before. I think it cropped
up when I was doing some background reading before actually starting this
thread. Clearly the men in black ar eonto us and hiding the material!
LoL!

650 hits on alltheweb.com
Jewish encyclopedia
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/index.jsp
related
http://www.jewfaq.org/toc.htm
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewhist.html
http://www.shamash.org/trb/judaism.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/
HTH
NRN

B.

walksalone who has spent his shareo f time chasing down information.
--
The more powerful and original a mind, the more it will incline towards the
religion of solitude. -Aldous Huxley, novelist (1894-1963)
.
User: "Elroy Willis"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 16 Nov 2005 04:18:06 PM
walksalone wrote in alt.atheism

Budikka666 <budikka1@netscape.net> said:

Elroy Willis wrote:

Since you're playing with conspiracy theories, here's mine...
Do a Google search for "Flavius Josephus Caiaphas" and you'll find
all kinds of interesting stuff to read,

Talking of conspiracy! I did exactly that just now and it came back with
zero results! I *know* I've seen that name before. I think it cropped
up when I was doing some background reading before actually starting
this thread. Clearly the men in black ar eonto us and hiding the material!
LoL!

650 hits on alltheweb.com
Jewish encyclopedia
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/index.jsp

Have you seen this before?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_problem
"The problem is named after Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian
living in the 1st century. As the legend goes, he and his 40 comrade
soldiers were trapped in a cave, surrounded by Romans. They chose
suicide over capture and decided that they will form a circle and
start killing themselves using a step of three. As Josephus did not
want to die, he was able to find the safe place, and stayed alive,
later joining the Romans who captured him."
More about him and masada at:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/masada.html
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
User: "Budikka666"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 18 Nov 2005 10:52:45 PM
Elroy Willis wrote:

walksalone wrote in alt.atheism

Budikka666 <budikka1@netscape.net> said:

Elroy Willis wrote:


Since you're playing with conspiracy theories, here's mine...


Do a Google search for "Flavius Josephus Caiaphas" and you'll find
all kinds of interesting stuff to read,


Talking of conspiracy! I did exactly that just now and it came back with
zero results! I *know* I've seen that name before. I think it cropped
up when I was doing some background reading before actually starting
this thread. Clearly the men in black ar eonto us and hiding the material!
LoL!


650 hits on alltheweb.com


Jewish encyclopedia


http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/index.jsp


Have you seen this before?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_problem

"The problem is named after Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian
living in the 1st century. As the legend goes, he and his 40 comrade
soldiers were trapped in a cave, surrounded by Romans. They chose
suicide over capture and decided that they will form a circle and
start killing themselves using a step of three. As Josephus did not
want to die, he was able to find the safe place, and stayed alive,
later joining the Romans who captured him."

Sorry for the tardy response - I've been rather busy irl, but no I
hadn't heard of that. What a wussy-boy he was! LoL!

More about him and masada at:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/masada.html

I actually visited Masada. It's quite interesting, but not much to see
(except the rock itself. There's some excavated ruins and a huge
hollowed out cistern where they kept the water.
Thanks for all the URLs, you guys!
B.
Budikka
.

User: "Jim Hutton"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 16 Nov 2005 07:33:40 PM
Elroy Willis wrote:

walksalone wrote in alt.atheism

Do a Google search for "Flavius Josephus Caiaphas" and you'll find
all kinds of interesting stuff to read,


Talking of conspiracy! I did exactly that just now and it came back with
zero results! I *know* I've seen that name before. I think it cropped
up when I was doing some background reading before actually starting
this thread. Clearly the men in black ar eonto us and hiding the material!
LoL!


Do the search without the quotes....
jh #1696
.

User: ""

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 17 Nov 2005 01:33:20 PM
In <cplmn19dtlf9ckppb4k1eao5a4hr3mpfek@4ax.com>, on 11/16/05
at 04:18 PM, Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> said:

walksalone wrote in alt.atheism

Budikka666 <budikka1@netscape.net> said:

Elroy Willis wrote:

Since you're playing with conspiracy theories, here's mine...
Do a Google search for "Flavius Josephus Caiaphas" and you'll find
all kinds of interesting stuff to read,

Talking of conspiracy! I did exactly that just now and it came back with
zero results! I *know* I've seen that name before. I think it cropped
up when I was doing some background reading before actually starting
this thread. Clearly the men in black ar eonto us and hiding the material!
LoL!

650 hits on alltheweb.com
Jewish encyclopedia
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/index.jsp

Have you seen this before?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_problem

Don't do wikki, found to many known errors. Most do not reference their
articles. Not saying that it is no good, someday it will be, just not for
me.

"The problem is named after Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian living
in the 1st century. As the legend goes, he and his 40 comrade soldiers
were trapped in a cave, surrounded by Romans. They chose suicide over
capture and decided that they will form a circle and start killing
themselves using a step of three. As Josephus did not want to die, he was
able to find the safe place, and stayed alive, later joining the Romans
who captured him."

Am aware of how he evading keeping his word.

More about him and masada at:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/masada.html

pbs, heard that name somewhere before.
walksalone who is back to his hobby, life.
--
The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and
writes another, and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it
is with what he vowed to make it. -J.M. Barrie, novelist and playwright
(1860-1937)
.




User: "duke"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 15 Nov 2005 11:42:04 PM
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 13:39:42 GMT, Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:

Believe it or not... :)

nOt a chance.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.


User: "Jon Skinner"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 13 Nov 2005 05:51:56 AM
Budikka666 <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote:

Supposedly Peter decides to send observers with Saul-Paul on his
travels. That's rather strange given that Saul-Paul claims direct
authority from a god. But then so does Peter. This is one the first
indications that the mythical Jesus failed in his mission.

Paul and Peter were such great friends. Galatians 1/2 and 2 Peter 2
illustrate what they thought of each other. Fucking PILLARS!

But who should go? Believe it or not, one of those chosen is Jesus's
right hand man - Judas - the guy we're told died in two different
stories by two different means, Well, he's still alive and well, only
now he isn't described as Judas of Kerioth, but as Judas Bar Sabas (son
of Sabas). Note that in Acts 1:23, there is another Bar Sabas, called
Joseph. Note also that Jesus was purported to have siblings, two of
whom were named Judas and Joseph.

Funny you should mention this... My reading of John 13:21-30 has "The
Disciple Who Jesus Loved" leaning back against Jesus and asking who
would betray him. This same laid-back disciple is the one who gets the
soggy bread handed to him - because none of the other disciples
understood what this private exchange was about.
Therefore: "Disciple Who Jesus Loved" = Judas.
Later on, in John 21:20-24 the same "Disciple Who Jesus Loved" is
walking on the beach - after the ressurection - and is apparently guilty
of something even worse than Peter's denials, prompting Jesus to say "If
I want him left alive, what's that to you?" Jesus' comments only make
sense if this disciple is Judas.
So here we have The Iscariot, still wandering about after the
ressurection and his two failed suicide attempts, being eyed off
suspiciously by Peter and Jesus.
What's more, the very next verse - John 21:24 - says "*This* is the
disciple who testifies to these things..." implying that the author is
Judas himself. The book of "John" should rightly be called The Gospel of
Judas.

--
Jon
a.a.#277
.
User: "Budikka666"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 13 Nov 2005 01:06:06 PM
Jon Skinner wrote:

Budikka666 <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote:

Supposedly Peter decides to send observers with Saul-Paul on his
travels. That's rather strange given that Saul-Paul claims direct
authority from a god. But then so does Peter. This is one the first
indications that the mythical Jesus failed in his mission.


Paul and Peter were such great friends. Galatians 1/2 and 2 Peter 2
illustrate what they thought of each other. Fucking PILLARS!

That's one of the few interesting things in the whole story - the truth
is that despite the purported fact that this Jesus character supposedly
lived and died literally just a couple of years before, the Christians
began fighting over their new religion imemdiately, and they still are.
The December 1999 Life magazine which reports that there are 20,000
Christian sects. 20,000 in only 2,000 years! This means that on
average, ten new Christian sects have arisen every single year since
the supposed time of Christ. 10 new sects every year in one religion
which supposedly has one god, and one message.
If you average out the two billion Christians in the world between the
20,000 sects, it means that each one has about 100,000 members, making
Christianity, in this view, a series of very minor religions indeed. I
don't know how many sects there are in Islam, Buddhism, Judaism and
Hinduism but I am willing to bet the four combined don't add up to
20,000 different ones.

But who should go? Believe it or not, one of those chosen is Jesus's
right hand man - Judas - the guy we're told died in two different
stories by two different means, Well, he's still alive and well, only
now he isn't described as Judas of Kerioth, but as Judas Bar Sabas (son
of Sabas). Note that in Acts 1:23, there is another Bar Sabas, called
Joseph. Note also that Jesus was purported to have siblings, two of
whom were named Judas and Joseph.


Funny you should mention this... My reading of John 13:21-30 has "The
Disciple Who Jesus Loved" leaning back against Jesus and asking who
would betray him. This same laid-back disciple is the one who gets the
soggy bread handed to him - because none of the other disciples
understood what this private exchange was about.

Therefore: "Disciple Who Jesus Loved" = Judas.

Wouldn't *that* be a riot?! (an Isca-riot to boot!)

Later on, in John 21:20-24 the same "Disciple Who Jesus Loved" is
walking on the beach - after the ressurection - and is apparently guilty
of something even worse than Peter's denials, prompting Jesus to say "If
I want him left alive, what's that to you?" Jesus' comments only make
sense if this disciple is Judas.

So here we have The Iscariot, still wandering about after the
ressurection and his two failed suicide attempts, being eyed off
suspiciously by Peter and Jesus.

What's more, the very next verse - John 21:24 - says "*This* is the
disciple who testifies to these things..." implying that the author is
Judas himself. The book of "John" should rightly be called The Gospel of
Judas.

--
Jon
a.a.#277

Not that I believe *any* of the Jesus myth, but like I said, there's
about as much evidence for the ***** I laid out as there is for any
other interpretation, including the canonical one!
Budikka
.


User: "wbarwell"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 12 Nov 2005 02:45:03 PM
Budikka666 wrote:

Some rather interesting information spills into the light in Acts 15

Supposedly Peter decides to send observers with Saul-Paul on his
travels. That's rather strange given that Saul-Paul claims direct
authority from a god. But then so does Peter. This is one the
first indications that the mythical Jesus failed in his mission.

But who should go? Believe it or not, one of those chosen is
Jesus's right hand man - Judas - the guy we're told died in two
different
stories by two different means, Well, he's still alive and well,
only now he isn't described as Judas of Kerioth, but as Judas Bar
Sabas (son
of Sabas).

In John he is the "son of Simon" (John 12:71)
Judas Bar Simon.

Note that in Acts 1:23, there is another Bar Sabas,
called
Joseph. Note also that Jesus was purported to have siblings, two of
whom were named Judas and Joseph.

Curiously, the word 'sabas' means rest, but it also relates to the
people of Sabea, a place known for exporting gold, frankincense, and
myrrh. Ring any bells?! It's also connected with The Queen of Saba
who visited Solomon. Any children born of that meeting would be a
descendent of the House of David.

Next we have the curious personages of Joseph of Arimathaea and
Nicodemus. Both are said to be wealthy. Both are said to be very
important men. Both are said to be members of the Sanhedrin. But
Nicodemus is mentioned in no book in the Bible save that of the
purported gospel of John. The name, Nicodemus, means "victorious
among
his people". That's an interesting name for anyone in that tomb,
isn't it?

The two are never mentioned together, either, except when John
claims they were the sole two people who arranged the
post-crucifixion burial
of the mythical Messiah. They were the only ones who actually knew
the
truth. They could, for all we know, have been the same person.
They could, for all we know, have been Caiaphas, the high priest
whose given
name is sometimes puported to be Joseph. But read on.

Joseph is described as an honorable man - the same description given
to
the Joseph who Matthew claims is the father of this Jesus. Mark,
the
earliest gospel, makes no mention of any father figure. The writer
of this gospel mentions the name Joseph only twice, as Joseph of
Arimathaea. So the only two people who were at the burial are
Joseph, who could have been Caiaphas, Jesus's father, and "one who
is victorious among his people" - aka Jesus aka Nicodemus.

The hundred pounds of myrrh and aloes employed in this burial ritual
would have been out of the question for the average Jewish burial,
where more like 1% of that material might be employed. Ridiculously
large amounts were only used for people who were very wealthy and/or
had earned great respect. Writers argue that such respect was due
to Jesus and that "Nicodemus" was wealthy and devoted enough to give
it, but one hundred pounds of embalming materials was also the
weight of a body in that day and age!

If it were properly wrapped in linen (the Jewish burial ritual
entailed bodies being tightly bound in linen bandages, not slipped
into a folded 14 foot cloth like meat into a taco as the Turin
shroud depicts), such
a weight of material could look exactly like a body. Anyone
glancing
into the tomb would believe someone was buried there. Until they
examined it in the cold light of dawn and leapt to the conclusion
that their rabbi was resurrected!

Then Jesus "ascends" to his second coming as Saul-Paul (Saul means
'asked for', Paul means 'little one' - the little one that was asked
for - the young Messiah!) and takes off on his travels spreading the
word about this "Jesus" who purportedly was risen from the dead!

So was there a Jesus, miracle working son of a god? No! of course
not.
It's certainly possible, however, that there may have been someone
who
had brothers Joseph and Judas to help him, and a father Joseph
heading the Sanhedrin to oil the wheels of the plan, who could
recover a drugged body before death (or even a dead body to be
quietly disposed of) before putting a fake aloes and myrrh "body"
into the tomb, which would be misinterpreted as a resurrection when
it was later discovered.

Of course, this explanation is just as much ***** as the
traditional NT story, but it is just as well-supported as that story
and it makes
more sense! The truth is probably that this "resurrection" is
nothing more than a resurrected pagan myth of rebirth in the spring
larded up with Judaic ritual and mythology and a ton of junk that
was
magnetically attracted to the fable once it got some traction.
That's how myths begin, after all.

Budikka

--
The official spokesman of the Foxes said
today that investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed.
Cheerful Charlie
.
User: "Budikka666"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 12 Nov 2005 09:36:42 PM
wbarwell wrote:

In John he is the "son of Simon" (John 12:71)
Judas Bar Simon.

Dang it! Now you've gone and ruined a perfectly good conspiracy
theory...but wait a minute, this *is* a conspiracy theory, and more
importantly, it's based on Biblical trash! This means I can bend any
fact any way I want!
Lemme see...Oh yes, that's it, "Simon" means "one who hears" so this
really meant that Judas was not the son of someone called Simon, but
one who *heard* his master's instructions and carried them out to the
letter. Yes! You know how esoteric John was! Yes! that's it! It's
all becoming clear again....
B.
.
User: "wbarwell"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 12 Nov 2005 11:49:26 PM
Budikka666 wrote:

wbarwell wrote:

In John he is the "son of Simon" (John 12:71)
Judas Bar Simon.


Dang it! Now you've gone and ruined a perfectly good conspiracy
theory...but wait a minute, this *is* a conspiracy theory, and more
importantly, it's based on Biblical trash! This means I can bend
any fact any way I want!

Lemme see...Oh yes, that's it, "Simon" means "one who hears" so this
really meant that Judas was not the son of someone called Simon, but
one who *heard* his master's instructions and carried them out to
the
letter. Yes! You know how esoteric John was! Yes! that's it!
It's all becoming clear again....

B.

Sorry. Ya know how it is.
I downloaded some bible software and have this
urge to fact check every thing. It should be
something everybody does before ranting, though
I fear the xians will never dio it.
--
The official spokesman of the Foxes said
today that investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed.
Cheerful Charlie
.
User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 13 Nov 2005 12:49:05 AM
wbarwell wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

wbarwell wrote:

In John he is the "son of Simon" (John 12:71)
Judas Bar Simon.


Dang it! Now you've gone and ruined a perfectly good conspiracy
theory...but wait a minute, this *is* a conspiracy theory, and more
importantly, it's based on Biblical trash! This means I can bend
any fact any way I want!

Lemme see...Oh yes, that's it, "Simon" means "one who hears" so this
really meant that Judas was not the son of someone called Simon, but
one who *heard* his master's instructions and carried them out to
the
letter. Yes! You know how esoteric John was! Yes! that's it!
It's all becoming clear again....

B.



Sorry. Ya know how it is.

I downloaded some bible software and have this
urge to fact check every thing. It should be
something everybody does before ranting, though
I fear the xians will never dio it.

I use SAB for a lot and http://bible.gospelcom.net/keyword/ for searching.
.
User: "duke"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 13 Nov 2005 01:05:10 PM
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 00:49:05 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

I use SAB for a lot and http://bible.gospelcom.net/keyword/ for searching.

And you still can't get it straight, unless you're living a double life, the
other being diametrically opposed to the one you show on this ng.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.



User: "duke"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 13 Nov 2005 01:03:19 PM
On 12 Nov 2005 13:36:42 -0800, "Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote:

wbarwell wrote:

In John he is the "son of Simon" (John 12:71)
Judas Bar Simon.


Dang it! Now you've gone and ruined a perfectly good conspiracy
theory...but wait a minute, this *is* a conspiracy theory, and more
importantly, it's based on Biblical trash! This means I can bend any
fact any way I want!

Lemme see...Oh yes, that's it, "Simon" means "one who hears" so this
really meant that Judas was not the son of someone called Simon, but
one who *heard* his master's instructions and carried them out to the
letter. Yes! You know how esoteric John was! Yes! that's it! It's
all becoming clear again....

Your problem is that it's clear as mud.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.



User: "duke"

Title: Re: How About this for a Jesus Myth? 13 Nov 2005 01:02:23 PM
On 12 Nov 2005 05:21:58 -0800, "Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote:

Some rather interesting information spills into the light in Acts 15
Supposedly Peter decides to send observers with Saul-Paul on his
travels. That's rather strange given that Saul-Paul claims direct
authority from a god. But then so does Peter. This is one the first
indications that the mythical Jesus failed in his mission.

Where? Try reading Mat 16. Peter was put in charge of the Church.

But who should go? Believe it or not, one of those chosen is Jesus's
right hand man - Judas - the guy we're told died in two different
stories by two different means,

Oh, come on, bud the dud. That Judas committed suicide years before. Don't you
know anything about the bible?

Well, he's still alive and well, only
now he isn't described as Judas of Kerioth, but as Judas Bar Sabas (son
of Sabas).

Maybe it was his twin brother.

Note that in Acts 1:23, there is another Bar Sabas, called
Joseph. Note also that Jesus was purported to have siblings, two of
whom were named Judas and Joseph.

Uh, no, nothing there about being siblings.

Of course, this explanation is just as much ***** as the traditional
NT story, but it is just as well-supported as that story and it makes
more sense!

Yeah, you're right - pure bud the dud bs.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.


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