| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jim07D6" |
| Date: |
10 Feb 2006 10:57:40 AM |
| Object: |
How are we to view Muslims? |
Two excerpts from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the
West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign
policy. Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in
largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as
congenital terrorists.
....
"Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George
Bush. Destroy America," protesters shouted as they marched to the
Danish embassy in the rain from a nearby mosque.
--- Jim07D6
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
10 Feb 2006 06:15:53 PM |
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Jim07D6 <Jim07D6@nospam.net> wrote in
news:achpu19befs8la8k80a42p7p8oqs26iel6@4ax.com:
Two excerpts from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the
West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign
policy. Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in
largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as
congenital terrorists.
...
"Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George
Bush. Destroy America," protesters shouted as they marched to the
Danish embassy in the rain from a nearby mosque.
Should we judge all Muslims by the actions of the ignorant fanatics?
Should we judge all Christians by the actions of these idiots?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
"With soap, baptism is a good thing."
-- Robert G. Ingersoll 1833-1899
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
10 Feb 2006 07:33:34 PM |
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Enkidu wrote in message ...
Jim07D6 <Jim07D6@nospam.net> wrote in
news:achpu19befs8la8k80a42p7p8oqs26iel6@4ax.com:
Two excerpts from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the
West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign
policy. Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in
largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as
congenital terrorists.
...
"Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George
Bush. Destroy America," protesters shouted as they marched to the
Danish embassy in the rain from a nearby mosque.
Should we judge all Muslims by the actions of the ignorant fanatics?
Should we judge all Christians by the actions of these idiots?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html
Should we become irrational and lose all sense of proportion, pretending
there is something remotely similar between the two parties you mention?
It's amazing to see so many people suspend critical thinking skills for the
opportunity to mention Fred Phelps.
- Rick
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
10 Feb 2006 10:11:22 PM |
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"Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote in
news:LaCdnTg3nup0o3DeRVn-jQ@giganews.com:
Enkidu wrote in message ...
Jim07D6 <Jim07D6@nospam.net> wrote in
news:achpu19befs8la8k80a42p7p8oqs26iel6@4ax.com:
Two excerpts from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the
West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign
policy. Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam
in largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as
congenital terrorists.
...
"Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George
Bush. Destroy America," protesters shouted as they marched to the
Danish embassy in the rain from a nearby mosque.
Should we judge all Muslims by the actions of the ignorant fanatics?
Should we judge all Christians by the actions of these idiots?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html
Should we become irrational and lose all sense of proportion,
pretending there is something remotely similar between the two parties
you mention? It's amazing to see so many people suspend critical
thinking skills for the opportunity to mention Fred Phelps.
You think Christians wouldn't act exactly the same way if they were freed
from the restraints placed on them by secular society? The difference
between Christian extremists and Muslim extremists is that Christians
have limits placed on them by secular power. This is exactly why we must
keep government and religion separate.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it's still a foolish thing.
-- Bertrand Russell
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
10 Feb 2006 11:19:18 PM |
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Enkidu wrote in message ...
"Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote in
news:LaCdnTg3nup0o3DeRVn-jQ@giganews.com:
Enkidu wrote in message ...
Jim07D6 <Jim07D6@nospam.net> wrote in
news:achpu19befs8la8k80a42p7p8oqs26iel6@4ax.com:
Two excerpts from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the
West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign
policy. Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam
in largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as
congenital terrorists.
...
"Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George
Bush. Destroy America," protesters shouted as they marched to the
Danish embassy in the rain from a nearby mosque.
Should we judge all Muslims by the actions of the ignorant fanatics?
Should we judge all Christians by the actions of these idiots?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html
Should we become irrational and lose all sense of proportion,
pretending there is something remotely similar between the two parties
you mention? It's amazing to see so many people suspend critical
thinking skills for the opportunity to mention Fred Phelps.
You think Christians wouldn't act exactly the same way if they were freed
from the restraints placed on them by secular society? The difference
between Christian extremists and Muslim extremists is that Christians
have limits placed on them by secular power. This is exactly why we must
keep government and religion separate.
You appear to be answering an argument I never made.
Try again, please. And at least make a reasonable attempt to respond to what
I actually said. I really don't appreciate the sort of dishonest debating
you're engaging in.
- Rick
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| User: "Puck Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
11 Feb 2006 01:47:58 AM |
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On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 23:19:18 -0600, "Rick"
<pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
Enkidu wrote in message ...
"Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote in
news:LaCdnTg3nup0o3DeRVn-jQ@giganews.com:
Enkidu wrote in message ...
Jim07D6 <Jim07D6@nospam.net> wrote in
news:achpu19befs8la8k80a42p7p8oqs26iel6@4ax.com:
Two excerpts from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the
West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign
policy. Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam
in largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as
congenital terrorists.
...
"Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George
Bush. Destroy America," protesters shouted as they marched to the
Danish embassy in the rain from a nearby mosque.
Should we judge all Muslims by the actions of the ignorant fanatics?
Should we judge all Christians by the actions of these idiots?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html
Should we become irrational and lose all sense of proportion,
pretending there is something remotely similar between the two parties
you mention? It's amazing to see so many people suspend critical
thinking skills for the opportunity to mention Fred Phelps.
You think Christians wouldn't act exactly the same way if they were freed
from the restraints placed on them by secular society? The difference
between Christian extremists and Muslim extremists is that Christians
have limits placed on them by secular power. This is exactly why we must
keep government and religion separate.
You appear to be answering an argument I never made.
Try again, please. And at least make a reasonable attempt to respond to what
I actually said. I really don't appreciate the sort of dishonest debating
you're engaging in.
- Rick
Fred Phelps' web site was posted to demonstrate the similarities
between muslim fanatics, and their xtian counterparts.
The connection is valid.
You jumped in, in a fashion that suggested that you did not agree with
similarity.
We, have simply pointed out that you are wrong.
If it was *not* your intent, to deny the similarities between xtian
fanatics, and their muslim opposite numbers, then; Why make the
comment in the first place?
--
The spelling Like any opinion stated here
purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
11 Feb 2006 06:07:36 AM |
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Puck Greenman wrote in message
<5c5ru1hjhai4r3a6i8k6j3lhsu42isu48f@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 23:19:18 -0600, "Rick"
<pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
Enkidu wrote in message ...
"Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote in
news:LaCdnTg3nup0o3DeRVn-jQ@giganews.com:
Enkidu wrote in message ...
Jim07D6 <Jim07D6@nospam.net> wrote in
news:achpu19befs8la8k80a42p7p8oqs26iel6@4ax.com:
Two excerpts from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the
West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign
policy. Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam
in largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as
congenital terrorists.
...
"Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George
Bush. Destroy America," protesters shouted as they marched to the
Danish embassy in the rain from a nearby mosque.
Should we judge all Muslims by the actions of the ignorant fanatics?
Should we judge all Christians by the actions of these idiots?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html
Should we become irrational and lose all sense of proportion,
pretending there is something remotely similar between the two parties
you mention? It's amazing to see so many people suspend critical
thinking skills for the opportunity to mention Fred Phelps.
You think Christians wouldn't act exactly the same way if they were freed
from the restraints placed on them by secular society? The difference
between Christian extremists and Muslim extremists is that Christians
have limits placed on them by secular power. This is exactly why we must
keep government and religion separate.
You appear to be answering an argument I never made.
Try again, please. And at least make a reasonable attempt to respond to
what
I actually said. I really don't appreciate the sort of dishonest debating
you're engaging in.
- Rick
Fred Phelps' web site was posted to demonstrate the similarities
between muslim fanatics, and their xtian counterparts.
The connection is valid.
That's complete total *****. How many embassies has Phelps burned? How
much of a following does he have? How many people does he have under his
influence? How many political leaders does he work with and influence?
Phelps is a lone nutcase...sort of like Frederic Rice. It would have been
more valid to mention ecoterrorists. They do actual damage to property.
Phelps just makes an ***** of himself.
You jumped in, in a fashion that suggested that you did not agree with
similarity.
We, have simply pointed out that you are wrong.
If it was *not* your intent, to deny the similarities between xtian
fanatics, and their muslim opposite numbers, then; Why make the
comment in the first place?
I stand by my original comment about the lack of proportion in some of you
folks.
I'll also add something I've probably posted here before. The context of the
actual religion involved is very important to understand the differences
between Muslim and Christian extremists.
http://www.secularislam.org/articles/wtc.htm
Given the stupefying enormity of the acts of barbarism of 11 September,
moral outrage is appropriate and justified, as are demands for punishment.
But a civilized society cannot permit blind attacks on all those perceived
as “Muslims” or Arabs. Not all Muslims or all Arabs are terrorists. Nor are
they implicated in the horrendous events of Tuesday. Police protection for
individual Muslims, mosques and other institutions must be increased.
However, to pretend that Islam has nothing to do with Terrorist Tuesday is
to wilfully ignore the obvious and to forever misinterpret events. Without
Islam the long-term strategy and individual acts of violence by Usama bin
Laden and his followers make little sense. The West needs to understand them
in order to be able to deal with them and avoid past mistakes. We are
confronted with Islamic terrorists and must take seriously the Islamic
component. Westerners in general, and Americans in particular, do not
understand the passionate, religious, and anti-western convictions of
Islamic terrorists. These God-intoxicated fanatics blindly throw away their
lives in return for the Paradise of Seventy Two Virgins offered Muslim
martyrs killed in the Holy War against all infidels.
....
There are enormous differences between Islamic fundamentalism and any other
kind of modern fundamentalism. It is true that Hindu, Jewish, and Christian
fundamentalists have been responsible for acts of violence, but these have
been confined to particular countries and regions. Islamic fundamentalism
has global aspirations: the submission of the entire world to the
all-embracing Shari’a, Islamic Law, a fascist system of dictates designed to
control every single act of all individuals. Nor do Hindus or Jews seek to
convert the world to their religion. Christians do indulge in proselytism
but no longer use acts of violence or international terrorism to achieve
their aims.
Only Islam treats non-believers as inferior beings who are expendable in
the drive to world hegemony. Islam justifies any means to achieve the end of
establishing an Islamic world.
**************************************************
I just get more and more sick of having to explain things that are
blindingly obvious to those who refuse to open their eyes, and keep shouting
various forms of "The Christians are Terrorists Too!"
- Rick
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| User: "Jim07D6" |
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| Title: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
11 Feb 2006 09:32:36 AM |
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"Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> said:
<...>
How many embassies has Phelps burned? How
much of a following does he have? How many people does he have under his
influence? How many political leaders does he work with and influence?
Notice that where the Muslim extremists are most violent, it is
against foreign targets. The Muslims in the European countries where
the cartoon offenses occurred are much less violent. And like the
latter, Phelps is going after domestic targets. His ideology does not
actively have foreign targets. Therefore, it is apples and oranges to
compare the Phelps extremists in the US with Muslim extremists in
Syria. It is better to compare Phelps with Muslim extremists in, say,
Denmark, where they have been rather nonviolent.
It is interesting to, to see that Christian extremism in the US, when
it is actually violent, is "grass roots". There is no domestic
mainstream religious hierarchy that stands up in its defense. The same
seems true in the Mideast, where the domestic mainstream religious
hierarchy does not stand up in the defense of the rioters -- they
instead say that Islam is a religion of peace. We tend to suspect the
sincerity of the latter, while accepting the sincerity of the former.
Why is that?
I think there is a good answer. In a typical Mideast country, we think
the domestic mainstream religious leadership is closer to the center
of political power than it really is. So we think the mainstream
religious leadership is tacitly granting license to violence, whereas,
actually they are not in charge. The political leadership is actually
secular in its attitudes -- it has geopolitics, oil, money and power
on its mind -- and uses both the religious mainstream, and the
extremists, to its purposes.
This isn't much different than the US.
--- Jim07D6
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
14 Feb 2006 08:42:58 PM |
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Jim07D6 wrote in message ...
"Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> said:
<...>
How many embassies has Phelps burned? How
much of a following does he have? How many people does he have under his
influence? How many political leaders does he work with and influence?
Notice that where the Muslim extremists are most violent, it is
against foreign targets. The Muslims in the European countries where
the cartoon offenses occurred are much less violent. And like the
latter, Phelps is going after domestic targets. His ideology does not
actively have foreign targets. Therefore, it is apples and oranges to
compare the Phelps extremists in the US with Muslim extremists in
Syria. It is better to compare Phelps with Muslim extremists in, say,
Denmark, where they have been rather nonviolent.
It is interesting to, to see that Christian extremism in the US, when
it is actually violent, is "grass roots". There is no domestic
mainstream religious hierarchy that stands up in its defense. The same
seems true in the Mideast, where the domestic mainstream religious
hierarchy does not stand up in the defense of the rioters -- they
instead say that Islam is a religion of peace. We tend to suspect the
sincerity of the latter, while accepting the sincerity of the former.
Why is that?
I think there is a good answer. In a typical Mideast country, we think
the domestic mainstream religious leadership is closer to the center
of political power than it really is. So we think the mainstream
religious leadership is tacitly granting license to violence, whereas,
actually they are not in charge. The political leadership is actually
secular in its attitudes -- it has geopolitics, oil, money and power
on its mind -- and uses both the religious mainstream, and the
extremists, to its purposes.
This isn't much different than the US.
And in the US, the real potentially dangerous extremists -
reconstructionists, White Supremacists, etc - have nothing but contempt for
even very conservative religious factions.
- Rick
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| User: "Puck Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
12 Feb 2006 12:09:26 PM |
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On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:07:36 -0600, "Rick"
<pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
Fred Phelps' web site was posted to demonstrate the similarities
between muslim fanatics, and their xtian counterparts.
The connection is valid.
That's complete total *****. How many embassies has Phelps burned? How
much of a following does he have? How many people does he have under his
influence? How many political leaders does he work with and influence?
Irrelevant, childish, semantics.
Identical actions are not necessary, to show similarities in mind set.
Phelps is a lone nutcase
Hardly. You seem to be an ardent supporter.
...sort of like Frederic Rice.
I am sure Fred noted your ad homenim attack.
It would have been
more valid to mention ecoterrorists. They do actual damage to property.
Phelps just makes an ***** of himself.
But are not relevant, as they are not claiming to act in the name of a
supernatural being.
You jumped in, in a fashion that suggested that you did not agree with
similarity.
We, have simply pointed out that you are wrong.
If it was *not* your intent, to deny the similarities between xtian
fanatics, and their muslim opposite numbers, then; Why make the
comment in the first place?
I stand by my original comment about the lack of proportion in some of you
folks.
I am sure that you understand your own comments, but that does not
mean that they make any sense to the rest of us.
I'll also add something I've probably posted here before. The context of the
actual religion involved is very important to understand the differences
between Muslim and Christian extremists.
No, it is not.
Religious fervour/fanaticism, is religious fervour/fanaticism; The
religion makes no difference at all.
snip C&P straw man.
...
There are enormous differences between Islamic fundamentalism and any other
kind of modern fundamentalism.
No, there are not.
Any differences that exist, are minor, the main one being that muslim
fanatics, have the courage of their convictions, xtian fanatics, do
not.
It is true that Hindu, Jewish, and Christian
fundamentalists have been responsible for acts of violence, but these have
been confined to particular countries and regions. Islamic fundamentalism
has global aspirations: the submission of the entire world to the
all-embracing Shari’a, Islamic Law, a fascist system of dictates designed to
control every single act of all individuals. Nor do Hindus or Jews seek to
convert the world to their religion. Christians do indulge in proselytism
but no longer use acts of violence or international terrorism to achieve
their aims.
But xtians do, and using blackmail as their methodology; Just like
muslims.
Only Islam treats non-believers as inferior beings who are expendable in
the drive to world hegemony. Islam justifies any means to achieve the end of
establishing an Islamic world.
Xtians do just the same.
**************************************************
I just get more and more sick of having to explain things that are
blindingly obvious to those who refuse to open their eyes, and keep shouting
various forms of "The Christians are Terrorists Too!"
The difference between xtian terrorism, and muslim terrorism, is that
when xtians do it, they deny that it is terrorism.
--
The spelling Like any opinion stated here
purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
12 Feb 2006 10:18:39 PM |
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Puck Greenman wrote in message ...
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:07:36 -0600, "Rick"
<pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
[snip]
Phelps is a lone nutcase
Hardly. You seem to be an ardent supporter.
Nice bit of ad hominem. Why do you have to resort to childish dishonesty?
Can you provide documented proof of my association with Phelps like Clinton
and Gore?
http://www.lcrga.com/archive/200010251159.shtml
http://www.qrd.org/qrd/media/radio/thiswayout/summary/newswrap/1997/461-01.2
7.97
I can't respond to anything else you've said, because you simply ignore
facts of the present and history. You're working yourself into an "If
everything were the same, the results would be the same!" sort of
tautological argument. This has become typical of folks like you who want to
equate various fundamentalisms. Fortunately there are a few people - even
folks here who have discovered a clue or two with the recent rottenness in
the state of Denmark.
- Rick
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| User: "Puck Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
14 Feb 2006 12:03:44 PM |
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On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:18:39 -0600, "Rick"
<pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
Puck Greenman wrote in message ...
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:07:36 -0600, "Rick"
<pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
[snip]
Phelps is a lone nutcase
Hardly. You seem to be an ardent supporter.
Nice bit of ad hominem. Why do you have to resort to childish dishonesty?
I fail to see either dishonesty or ad homenim.
You came out in support of Fred Phelps: How else can your post be
read?
Can you provide documented proof of my association with Phelps like Clinton
and Gore?
Enkidu wrote:-
Should we judge all Muslims by the actions of the ignorant fanatics?
Should we judge all Christians by the actions of these idiots?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html
Using the Phelps, web site to indicate what sort of idiots he was
referring to.
You replied with:-
Should we become irrational and lose all sense of proportion, pretending
there is something remotely similar between the two parties you mention?
It's amazing to see so many people suspend critical thinking skills for the
opportunity to mention Fred Phelps.
- Rick
If you do not consider that as support for Fred Phelps, then I cannot
imagine what you think would be.
I can't respond to anything else you've said,
Your excuses aside, I did not really expect you to.
--
The spelling Like any opinion stated here
purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
.
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
14 Feb 2006 08:31:54 PM |
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Puck Greenman wrote in message ...
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:18:39 -0600, "Rick"
<pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
Puck Greenman wrote in message ...
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:07:36 -0600, "Rick"
<pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
[snip]
Phelps is a lone nutcase
Hardly. You seem to be an ardent supporter.
Nice bit of ad hominem. Why do you have to resort to childish dishonesty?
I fail to see either dishonesty or ad homenim.
You came out in support of Fred Phelps: How else can your post be
read?
More ad hominum. Why do you resort to lying?
My post can be read for exactly what it said. Just because I disagree with
the validity of the comparison does not mean I am supporting one side or the
other. That's not a difficult concept to grasp. Unfortunately you are in
very good conmpany in alt.atheism. If I said Eric Rudolph wasn't as evil as
Hitler or Stalin, does that mean I support Rudolph? In your twisted mind it
does.
Can you provide documented proof of my association with Phelps like
Clinton
and Gore?
Enkidu wrote:-
Should we judge all Muslims by the actions of the ignorant fanatics?
Should we judge all Christians by the actions of these idiots?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html
Using the Phelps, web site to indicate what sort of idiots he was
referring to.
Duhhh! but htat's not the whole picture.
You replied with:-
Should we become irrational and lose all sense of proportion, pretending
there is something remotely similar between the two parties you mention?
It's amazing to see so many people suspend critical thinking skills for
the
opportunity to mention Fred Phelps.
- Rick
If you do not consider that as support for Fred Phelps, then I cannot
imagine what you think would be.
You have a limited capacity for logical thinking, let alone imagination.
I can't respond to anything else you've said,
Your excuses aside,
They were reasons, which you snipped without adressing:
*******************************************
because you simply ignore
facts of the present and history. You're working yourself into an "If
everything were the same, the results would be the same!" sort of
tautological argument. This has become typical of folks like you who want to
equate various fundamentalisms. Fortunately there are a few people - even
folks here who have discovered a clue or two with the recent rottenness in
the state of Denmark.
*******************************************
I did not really expect you to.
I guess I shouldn't expect anything more than the typical atheist
dishonesty. Misinterpret what I say and snip my arguments.
What is wrong with all you atheists? This happens over and over again. Do
any of you have any intellectual integrity at all? Even the worst Christian
fundamentalists I've encountered aren't this habitually irrational and
dishonest.
- Rick, waiting for the Atheist Rockettes Chorus Line of jerking knees
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| User: "Puck Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
11 Feb 2006 01:16:08 AM |
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On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:33:34 -0600, "Rick"
<pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
Enkidu wrote in message ...
Jim07D6 <Jim07D6@nospam.net> wrote in
news:achpu19befs8la8k80a42p7p8oqs26iel6@4ax.com:
Two excerpts from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the
West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign
policy. Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in
largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as
congenital terrorists.
...
"Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George
Bush. Destroy America," protesters shouted as they marched to the
Danish embassy in the rain from a nearby mosque.
Should we judge all Muslims by the actions of the ignorant fanatics?
Should we judge all Christians by the actions of these idiots?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html
Should we become irrational and lose all sense of proportion, pretending
there is something remotely similar between the two parties you mention?
It's amazing to see so many people suspend critical thinking skills for the
opportunity to mention Fred Phelps.
I don't see any loss of proportion.
The Xtian fanatics, are no different to the Islamic ones.
Phelps would like to do the same as the muslim protestors, wreck,
burn, destroy, kill even, for his own causes.
The only reason that he stops where he does, is that he recognises
that for all of America's current religious fervour, he is still a
minority, and that American courts, and Christendom in general, still
maintain some sense of proportion
Were he in the majority, or could he persuade his little band of
pilgrims, to the mania that some muslim leaders can achieve in their
supporters, he would be indistinguishable from them.
There is no difference between the Fred Phelps', and Pat Robertsons,
Jerry Falwells, etc, of the "xtian" west, and the fundamentalist
islamic fanatics, of the middle and far east.
--
The spelling Like any opinion stated here
purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
11 Feb 2006 01:16:22 PM |
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Puck Greenman wrote:
<snip>
There is no difference between the Fred Phelps', and Pat Robertsons,
Jerry Falwells, etc, of the "xtian" west, and the fundamentalist
islamic fanatics, of the middle and far east.
I agree fully with this statement.
What I tend to add is that while Phelps is alone, as you say, the Muslim
fanatics have supporters in some Islamic countries governments, and
actually are some of this governments.
This increases my worries about the later. Is this so wrong?
j.m.
#1491
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| User: "Jim07D6" |
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| Title: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
11 Feb 2006 01:47:25 PM |
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"j.m.1491@gmx.net" <j.m.1491@gmx.net> said:
Puck Greenman wrote:
<snip>
There is no difference between the Fred Phelps', and Pat Robertsons,
Jerry Falwells, etc, of the "xtian" west, and the fundamentalist
islamic fanatics, of the middle and far east.
I agree fully with this statement.
What I tend to add is that while Phelps is alone, as you say, the Muslim
fanatics have supporters in some Islamic countries governments, and
actually are some of this governments.
This increases my worries about the later. Is this so wrong?
Not wrong at all. I fear any government being controlled by
extremists, including my own.
But looked at from the average Middle Easterner's POV the comparable
fear does not concern our government coming under the control of the
Christian fanatics, it concerns the US government already being
controlled by the military-industrial complex, when that Middle
Easterner is sitting on top of a lot of oil.
--- Jim07D6
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| User: "Richard Smol" |
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| Title: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
10 Feb 2006 11:02:19 AM |
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Jim07D6 wrote:
Two excerpts from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the
West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign
policy. Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in
largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as
congenital terrorists.
"Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George
Bush. Destroy America," protesters shouted as they marched to the
Danish embassy in the rain from a nearby mosque.
[sacrasm]
Muslims? Terrorists? I wonder why anyone would think *that*.
[/sarcasm]
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| User: "FreeThink" |
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| Title: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
11 Feb 2006 01:18:51 PM |
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Jim07D6 wrote:
Two excerpts from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the
West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign
policy. Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in
largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as
congenital terrorists.
...
"Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George
Bush. Destroy America," protesters shouted as they marched to the
Danish embassy in the rain from a nearby mosque.
--- Jim07D6
I view them on the television almost exclusively.
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| User: "Jim07D6" |
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| Title: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
11 Feb 2006 01:37:22 PM |
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"FreeThink" <zeno7772004@yahoo.com> said:
Jim07D6 wrote:
Two excerpts from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the
West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign
policy. Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in
largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as
congenital terrorists.
...
"Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George
Bush. Destroy America," protesters shouted as they marched to the
Danish embassy in the rain from a nearby mosque.
--- Jim07D6
I view them on the television almost exclusively.
I get how the "Free" part of your screen name. Could you explain the
"Think" part? Maybe it should be "Association" instead. ;-)
--- Jim07D6
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: How are we to view Muslims? |
11 Feb 2006 03:38:33 PM |
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On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 16:57:40 GMT, Jim07D6 <Jim07D6@nospam.net> thought
hard and wrote:
Two excerpts from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4699716.stm
Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the
West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign
policy. Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in
largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as
congenital terrorists.
...
"Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George
Bush. Destroy America," protesters shouted as they marched to the
Danish embassy in the rain from a nearby mosque.
The largest idiots shout the loudest.
--- Jim07D6
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 17 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
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