| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Truth Hunter" |
| Date: |
27 Nov 2004 06:59:56 AM |
| Object: |
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
How can God who is both all-powerful, all-knowing and powerless,
ignorant at the same time?
Can a person who is both white and black at the same time?
Can a person who is both male and female at the same time?
Can a person who is both married and a bachelor at the same time?
Can a person who is both short and tall at the same time?
Can a person who is both fat and thin at the same time?
Can a person who is both rich and poor at the same time?
How can God be both man AND God at the same time?
There are a number of situations where the two are definitely mutually
exclusive, at least in a modern Western understanding of it. For
example, one of the major points in the understanding of humanity is
the concept of temptation; humans are temptable, and can either
overcome temptation or submit to it. God is not subject to temptation.
Into which category does a God/man fall, then?
Or, better example: immortality. Man can die, but God cannot. Can a
God/man die? There are other examples, too, of course, that's just
what popped into my head.
Explain to me how God can become human. I assume there's no need to
point out the "dramatic" differences between being the CREATOR and
being the CREATEES. By saying his nature doesn't change is saying he
doesn't actually become human. What is the value of Jesus if he was
not actually human in every sense?
The idea of a God/man is an oxymoron. The Christian creeds (as far as
I can tell) don't just say that Jesus looks like God from one side and
looks like man from another.They seem to insist that Jesus *is* God
and Jesus *is* man.
It is contradictory (not just paradoxical) for a being to be
human and God (finite and infinite) at the same time.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Bumper Sticker
*============================================================================*
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath !
*============================================================================*
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
29 Nov 2004 07:12:40 PM |
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On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 18:18:37 -0800, John Weatherly
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> cross posted to
alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.religion.christian.baptist:
You don't get it, do you?
Yes, I do, in fact. The one who doesn't get it is you.
We have to trust you here, right?
"18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out
of the boy, and he was healed from that moment." The bible clearly
states here that disease is caused by demons. It states this later, too,
talking about leprosy.
The boy was "healed" of demon possession, "healed" being an
expression used by 1st C Jews. Are you a 1st C Jew?
Are you? You still believe in demons?
And there is no connection between demons and leprosy.
But demon possession is NOT a "sickness" or a "disease," per se.
Nor is it real.
Says whom? Do you call Jesus Christ a liar?
No. I state he never existed.
You apparently know little or nothing about demon possession.
Damn tootin'. It's one of the more absurd notions to come from the word
of "god".
You merely prove that you know nothing of the subject.
We have to trust you here, right?
And you are wasting my time. I have all the time in the world for
the sincere non-believer.
And a few others too, since you cross post.
You are neither a believer, nor are you sincere.
How do you know that? Anyone who doesn't agree with you is insincere?
You merely want to ***** around like these issues are a joke,
as you reflected in your opening comments to me.
These issues ARE a joke.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
29 Nov 2004 06:56:33 PM |
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On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:04:40 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
Where, oh WHERE did you get your remark from what I said? I NEVER said
in my words, or in that quote, that demons "cause disease." Sin DOES
cause some sickness, and the fact that sin runs rampant in the world
today accounts for MUCH sickness.
Thus, sin must be something we can observe.
Proof? How much weighs a sin? Ever seen a sin under a microscope? Have
you ever looked through a microscope for that matter?
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| User: "Dave Lister" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 12:06:05 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:l0vgq0ho6spgn4ht0lilvk1n2oaaa7vjud@4ax.com:
On 27 Nov 2004 04:59:56 -0800, (Truth Hunter)
wrote:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
With God, anything is possible.
Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
--
Bush is not my President.
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| User: "Teresita" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 01:38:26 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:06:05 GMT, Dave Lister
<retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:l0vgq0ho6spgn4ht0lilvk1n2oaaa7vjud@4ax.com:
On 27 Nov 2004 04:59:56 -0800, (Truth Hunter)
wrote:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
With God, anything is possible.
Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
Not even Ayn Rand would expect God to produce a logical contradiction.
--
Teresita aka Ruby Redinger
http://web.newsguy.com/rubyred
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| User: "Mark rogerpearse.caneatmy.smegma" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 05:12:48 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:38:26 -0800, Teresita <teresita@dataway.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:06:05 GMT, Dave Lister
<retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:l0vgq0ho6spgn4ht0lilvk1n2oaaa7vjud@4ax.com:
On 27 Nov 2004 04:59:56 -0800, (Truth Hunter)
wrote:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
With God, anything is possible.
Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
Not even Ayn Rand would expect God to produce a logical contradiction.
And since "anything" is not limited by what you don't like, God's
inability to create a square circle (which you will find in the
"anything" column) refutes the "God can do anything<sniff sniff
passmeatissue>" claim quite handily.
Of course, you wrong-brained folk won't quite get it.
"Verbal nastiness is like radioactive waste. It never goes away,and it
sticks with you until you die," -- me, paraphrasing the wonderful Miss
Bette Midler
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| User: "Teresita" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 05:39:34 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:12:48 -0800, Mark <rogerpearse.caneatmy.smegma>
wrote:
Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
Not even Ayn Rand would expect God to produce a logical contradiction.
And since "anything" is not limited by what you don't like, God's
inability to create a square circle (which you will find in the
"anything" column) refutes the "God can do anything<sniff sniff
passmeatissue>" claim quite handily.
That's not fair. You're basically saying God has to make a planet
that's simultaneously all red and all blue.
--
Teresita aka Ruby Redinger
http://web.newsguy.com/rubyred
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| User: "Mark rogerpearse.caneatmy.smegma" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 06:51:24 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:39:34 -0800, Teresita <teresita@dataway.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:12:48 -0800, Mark <rogerpearse.caneatmy.smegma>
wrote:
Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
Not even Ayn Rand would expect God to produce a logical contradiction.
And since "anything" is not limited by what you don't like, God's
inability to create a square circle (which you will find in the
"anything" column) refutes the "God can do anything<sniff sniff
passmeatissue>" claim quite handily.
That's not fair.
Whine elsewhere.
The assertion that "God can do anything" is refuted by the fact that
God can not create a square circle (A square circle falls in the
"anything" column.)
Live with it.
You're basically saying God has to make a planet
that's simultaneously all red and all blue.
Thank you for proving further that the claim "God can do anything" is
patently false.
Go ahead, do another one. Then we can move the claim into the "absurd"
column.
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| User: "Teresita" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 08:01:46 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:51:24 -0800, Mark <rogerpearse.caneatmy.smegma>
wrote:
The assertion that "God can do anything" is refuted by the fact that
God can not create a square circle (A square circle falls in the
"anything" column.)
You call yourself a self-respecting atheist, yet you believe in the
possibility of square circles and impossible things like that. They
should revoke your membership.
--
Teresita aka Ruby Redinger
http://web.newsguy.com/rubyred
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| User: "walksalone" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
28 Nov 2004 07:02:10 AM |
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:01:46 -0800, Teresita wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:51:24 -0800, Mark <rogerpearse.caneatmy.smegma>
wrote:
The assertion that "God can do anything" is refuted by the fact that
God can not create a square circle (A square circle falls in the
"anything" column.)
You call yourself a self-respecting atheist, yet you believe in the
Where did he do that? & what does it have to do with him rubbing your nose
in the flaws of the claims for your whosis thingiee powers?
BTW, care to show where he said he believed in a square circle, or any
other unlikely thing?
possibility of square circles and impossible things like that. They
should revoke your membership.
What for, we don't revoke the membership of the xian atheists [if there is
such a thing as a atheist membership only club its news to me].
--
Religious Cult: The church down the street from yours.
B.C. cartoon, 30 April 1994
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| User: "walksalone" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 06:09:37 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:39:34 -0800, Teresita wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:12:48 -0800, Mark <rogerpearse.caneatmy.smegma>
wrote:
Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
Not even Ayn Rand would expect God to produce a logical contradiction.
And since "anything" is not limited by what you don't like, God's
inability to create a square circle (which you will find in the
"anything" column) refutes the "God can do anything<sniff sniff
passmeatissue>" claim quite handily.
That's not fair. You're basically saying God has to make a planet
that's simultaneously all red and all blue.
No hill for a stepper, or a god come to that.
One of the omni problems is that xians really don't think them through.
walksalone who has no doubt that xians are not taught to think about their
myth, posts like the above verify it beyond reasonable doubt.
--
Religious Cult: The church down the street from yours.
B.C. cartoon, 30 April 1994
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| User: "walksalone" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 06:01:46 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:38:26 -0800, Teresita wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:06:05 GMT, Dave Lister
<retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:l0vgq0ho6spgn4ht0lilvk1n2oaaa7vjud@4ax.com:
On 27 Nov 2004 04:59:56 -0800, (Truth Hunter)
wrote:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
With God, anything is possible.
Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
Not even Ayn Rand would expect God to produce a logical contradiction.
But as a god that can do anything, logical contradictions would not exist,
no? Or are you limiting your god b y making a plea for the special
exception, *my god â„¢ can do anything, as long as its logical*?
walksalone who does know that xian claims for their god squad make
absolutely no logical sense.
That is one of the reasons why they do the special pleading thing so often.
--
Pray: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of
a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
Ambrose Bierce
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| User: "Dave Lister" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 03:32:19 PM |
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Teresita <teresita@dataway.com> wrote in
news:grlhq0ti09ifio3hh0eifkr0uqropi2p3l@4ax.com:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:06:05 GMT, Dave Lister
<retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:l0vgq0ho6spgn4ht0lilvk1n2oaaa7vjud@4ax.com:
On 27 Nov 2004 04:59:56 -0800, (Truth Hunter)
wrote:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
With God, anything is possible.
Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
Not even Ayn Rand would expect God to produce a logical contradiction.
Dumb-dumb thinks he can.
--
Bush is not my President.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 12:51:05 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:06:05 GMT, Dave Lister <retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
With God, anything is possible.
Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
How do you know he can't?
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "Tom Sevart" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 02:26:29 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:u3jhq0lvmrt9thu290054f85pdcetgoga0@4ax.com...
Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
How do you know he can't?
Uhh... because it's impossible, even for an all-powerful god?
Can God create a rock so big that he can't lift it?
Tom
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| User: "SDesk" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
28 Nov 2004 01:27:50 AM |
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"Tom Sevart" <n2uhc.spam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:30s67lF320julU1@uni-berlin.de...
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| "duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
| news:u3jhq0lvmrt9thu290054f85pdcetgoga0@4ax.com...
|
| > >Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
| >
| > How do you know he can't?
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| Uhh... because it's impossible, even for an all-powerful god?
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| Can God create a rock so big that he can't lift it?
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| Tom
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Yes. As a matter of fact God couldn't he keep from falling under the weight
of the Cross.
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| User: "Teresita" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 03:04:27 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:26:29 -0600, "Tom Sevart"
<n2uhc.spam@yahoo.com> wrote:
Can God create a rock so big that he can't lift it?
He would lift it if only the planet's crust didn't give way under His
feet.
--
Teresita aka Ruby Redinger
http://web.newsguy.com/rubyred
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| User: "walksalone" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 06:04:02 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:04:27 -0800, Teresita wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:26:29 -0600, "Tom Sevart"
<n2uhc.spam@yahoo.com> wrote:
Can God create a rock so big that he can't lift it?
He would lift it if only the planet's crust didn't give way under His
feet.
Then why call him god if he can't do it on his own?
walksalone who is enjoying this bout of apologetics in inaction.
--
"You know you have created God in your own image, when you find
that your God hates the same people that you do."
Author unknown?
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| User: "Teresita" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 07:08:30 PM |
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On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:04:02 GMT, walksalone <spam@fcc.gov> wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:04:27 -0800, Teresita wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:26:29 -0600, "Tom Sevart"
<n2uhc.spam@yahoo.com> wrote:
Can God create a rock so big that he can't lift it?
He would lift it if only the planet's crust didn't give way under His
feet.
Then why call him god if he can't do it on his own?
It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'
--
Teresita aka Ruby Redinger
http://web.newsguy.com/rubyred
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| User: "Tom Sevart" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 07:30:37 PM |
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"Teresita" <teresita@dataway.com> wrote in message
news:579iq01eq9c2kl992b2ior8tmji4ht1mmq@4ax.com...
It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'
Which is a cop-out. The reason that was invented was to explain why God
doesn't answer all prayers, doesn't show himself to unbelievers who ask him
to, and can't prove his own existance. If God isn't going to prove that he
exists, then he must be angry that someone would ask, right? What does God
have to hide?
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"
Tom
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| User: "walksalone" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
28 Nov 2004 06:57:02 AM |
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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:08:30 -0800, Teresita wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:04:02 GMT, walksalone <spam@fcc.gov> wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:04:27 -0800, Teresita wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:26:29 -0600, "Tom Sevart"
<n2uhc.spam@yahoo.com> wrote:
Can God create a rock so big that he can't lift it?
He would lift it if only the planet's crust didn't give way under His
feet.
Then why call him god if he can't do it on his own?
It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'
Well, many things written, do you believe them all. or just those that
justify what you want to believe?
TITS:
The squirrel that you kill in jest, dies in earnest.
Avoid loud & agressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you
compare yourself with others, you may become vain & bitter; for always
there will be greater and lessor persons than yourself. Enjoy your
acheivements as well as your plans
It is hard to say whether the doctors of law or divinity have
made the
greater advances in the lucrative business of mystery.
I laud Agni, the chosen Priest, God, minister of sacrifice,
The hotar, lavishest of wealth.
Worthy is Agni to be praised by living as by ancient seers.
He shall bring. hitherward the Gods.
Through Agni man obtaineth wealth, yea, plenty waxing day by day,
Most rich in heroes, glorious.
Agni, the perfect sacrifice which thou encompassest about
Verily goeth to the Gods.
May Agni, sapient-minded Priest, truthful, most gloriously great,
The God, come hither with the Gods.
Whatever blessing, Agni, thou wilt grant unto thy worshipper,
That, Angiras, is indeed thy truth.
To thee, dispeller of the night, O Agni, day by day with prayer
Bringing thee reverence, we come
Ruler of sacrifices, guard of Law eternal, radiant One,
Increasing in thine own abode.
Be to us easy of approach, even as a father to his son:
Agni, be with us for our weal.
& just for you Teresita:
Jesus, ill mannered & without good ethics & morals?
In writing.
"While he (Jesus) was speaking, a Pharisee asked him to dine
with him; so he went in and sat at table. The Pharisee was astonished to
see
that he did not at first wash before dinner. And the Lord said to him, `Now
you
Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you
are
full of extortion and wickedness. You fools! Did not he who made the
outside
make the inside also?...woe to you Pharisees! for you tithe mint and rue
and
every herb, and neglect justice and the love of God; these you ought to
have
done...'" (Luke 11:37-44 RSV).
Ill mannered at least, arrogant & prideful at middling, Sinfully
prideful at worst. Bad ethics here.
"...and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And
Jesus answered him, Thou sayest" (Matt. 27:11)
and Jesus answered him, `sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others
tell it
thee of me?" (John 18:34)
and "Pilate therefore said unto him, `Art thou a king then?'
Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king" (John 18:37)
and "And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence
art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer" (John 19:9).
Definitely aggorgant & un-cicle tongued. Less than good
ethics attributed to the lad here. More bad ethics.
"And the Lord said unto the servant, Go out unto the highways and hedges,
and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled" (Luke14:23).
It would appear that people didn't much care for the message of the day,
& compulsion was considered to be ethical. Not in my corner of the world.
Also immoral using force to get people to listen to your point of view.
that kind of thinking leads to the situation of Roma post 300 C.E. & the
holocaust.
"So the devils besought him (Jesus) saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us
to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they
were come outthey went into the herd of swine; and, behold, the whole herd
of
swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the
waters" (Matt. 8:31.32).
Destruction of property not belonging to himself. If this was Israel,
why would swine be there in the first place? Another obvious case of bad
morals & a violation of ethics.
"Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your
fathers killed them" (Luke 11:47).
This from the man who claimed kinship with David & Solomen? Yet yopu
are guilty of something due to your ancesters. Bit Janos faced. Basd
ethics & morality.
"but he answered her not a word" (Matt 15:23).
Rude at the utleast. Not good ethics.
"Jesus said, ... `Thou shalt not steal... (Matt. 19:18) versus "Go ye into
the village over against you; in the which at your entering ye shall find a
colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither. And
if
any man ask you, why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because
the
Lord hath need of him. And they that were sent went their way, and found
even as he had said unto them. And as they were loosing the colt, the
owners
thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt?" (Luke 19:30-33).
Horse theft is stealing. No offer of recompassation was
made, that at the utleast makes it out & out theft. This is moral if one
person does it, & only one. I tend to doubt that.
"For as yet they know not the scriptures, that he must rise again from the
dead" (John 20:9).
Cute, wrong but cute. Care to show the passages in the OT
[scriptures of the times] that said anything about a resurection, let alone
2 of them. 2 of them? Yes, 2, the word is AGAIN. That means at least
twice.
"thou shalt love thy neithbor as thyself" (Matt 19:19) versus
"Jesus saith unto her, "Woman, what have I to do with thee" (John 2:4).
Honor thy mother? Seems to be selective. According to his worshippers,
the lad has shown very few ethics so far.
"and it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he
(Jesus)
went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn,
and
did eat, rubbing them in their hands. And certain of the Pharisees said
unto
them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days? And
Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David
did,
when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him. How he went
into
the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them
that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests
alone" (Luke 6:1-4)?
Violatin of the sabbath [should have been stoned then & there] &
theft of anothers property [swine & a colt anyone]. Seems to be a double
standard here. Uses theft [David's] to excuse theft & the breaking of the
sabbath by him & his.
"...for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance"
(Matt. 9:13)
versus "and Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none
good but one, that is, God" (Mark 10:18).
How could some be righteous if only God is good? (39)
"As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world" (John 9:5)
versus
"ye are the light of the world" (Matt. 5:14).
Just who is the light of the world? Seems the lad is not sure at
all.
"...The Kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man
took, and sowed in his field: Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but
when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so
that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof"
(Matt.13:31-32).
Science aware he was not. There has yet to be a mustard tree.
"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more
abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that
he
hath" (Matt. 13:12).
Say what. Sounds like a fib here. Bad ethics &against
religious teachings of the times.
"Verily, I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or
brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands,
for
my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this
time,
houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands,
with
persecution, and in the world to come eternal life" (Mark 10:29-30).
Let's get this straight. Chuck it all, fail to support/protect your
family that you helped create. You get more than you had in THIS WORLD.
Seems history [outside of the priesthood] tells a different tale for Joe
citizen. Bad morals & poor ethics, again.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it
shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that
seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened" (Matt.
7:7-8)
versus "Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a
worshipper
of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth" (John 9:31) and "The Lord is
far
from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous" (Prov. 15:29).
wicked.
Pardon, seems only the select are allowed to play the game. *****
poor ethics at the least when you invoke eternity & hell fire into the
equation.
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye
will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of
his
own; for he is a liar, and the father of it" (John 8:44) versus "And devils
also
came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God"
(Luke
4:41).
The demons [liars] called Jesus the son of God. Sounds a bit
off to me. Does this mean that Jesus is the son of Satan. According to
the above it does.
"Then said Jesus to him, Put up again they sword into his
place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matt
26:52) versus "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to
send peace, but a sword" (Matt. 10:34) and "...and he that hath no sword,
let
him sell his garmentand buy one" (Luke 22:36) and (Luke 22:38).
Think Prince of peace. Anyone else see a conflict? Etics are not good
to say the least.
"And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to
crucify him..."
(Matt.20:19) and "...and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver
him
to the Gentiles:And they...shall kill him..." (Mark 10:33-34) versus "And
it was
the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour:and he (Pilate)
saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him,
away
with him, crucify him... Then delivered he (Pilate) him therefore unto them
to be crucified. And...they crucified him..." (John 19:14-18).
Seems he wasn't much of a prophet either. Claims the gentiles will do
him in, bibical history says it was the jews.
"Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his
place: for all they that take the sword shall perish by the sword" (Matt
26:52)
versus "I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said...I will slay
the
last of them with the sword" (Amos 9:1) and "And I (God) will bring a sword
upon
you..." (Lev. 26:25).
Boy howdy, Jesus will die by the sword? According to Amos &
Leviticus he will.
"...for verily I (Jesus) say unto you, If ye
have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain,
Remove
hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible
unto
you" (Matt. 17:20).
Any takers? Not even military engineers try that routine. Some
PSI types can control dice [irregulary] but move mountains, no.
"and these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they
cast
out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents;
and
if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay
hands on
the sink, and they shall recover" (Mark 16:17-18).
Well there is an out & out lie. Cyanide or sulfuric acid anyone.
Didn't think so. Oh, for those that thinkall poisons are always fatal, an
immunity can be aquired with several types.
"And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, `Thou art
Christ
the Son of God.' And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they
knew
that he was Christ" (Luke 4:41) and "unclean spirits, when they saw him,
fell
down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God" (Mark 3:11).
Strange, here we have the liars & unfaithful bouncing around declaring
divinity for a human. Odd at best. Does this mean that Christians are
devil worshipers. According to the above it does.
So, which of the above do you not believe. The y are all written, & in at
two cases, better than what is written in the xian grimorie.
walksalone who doubts the average xian, or even the better educated ones,
finds anything wrong with being self enslaved to a myth that will not let
it examine its main players. Sad, but no surprise.
--
CROSS, n. An ancient religious symbol erroneously supposed
to owe its significance to the most solemn event in the
history of Christianity, but really antedating it by thousands
of years. By many it has been believed to be identical with
the crux ansata of the ancient phallic worship, but it has
been traced even beyond all that we know of that, to the rites
of primitive peoples. We have to-day the White Cross as a
symbol of chastity, and the Red Cross as a badge of benevolent
neutrality in war.
Devils dictionary
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 01:09:55 PM |
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On 27 Nov 2004, duke dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:06:05 GMT, Dave Lister
<retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
With God, anything is possible.
Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
How do you know he can't?
How do you know he can?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
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| User: "Dave Lister" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 03:31:16 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:u3jhq0lvmrt9thu290054f85pdcetgoga0@4ax.com:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:06:05 GMT, Dave Lister
<retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
With God, anything is possible.
Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
How do you know he can't?
Because it can't be done. A square is a square and a circle is a circle.
--
Bush is not my President.
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| User: "SDesk" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
28 Nov 2004 01:28:22 AM |
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"Dave Lister" <retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95AE89886B7C4retsildivad33hotmail@68.6.19.6...
| duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
| news:u3jhq0lvmrt9thu290054f85pdcetgoga0@4ax.com:
|
| > On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:06:05 GMT, Dave Lister
| > <retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote:
| >
| >>>>How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
| >>> With God, anything is possible.
| >>Nonsense. God cannot create a square circle.
| >
| > How do you know he can't?
|
| Because it can't be done. A square is a square and a circle is a circle.
|
| --
| Bush is not my President.
Is the universe a globe or a cube?
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 08:27:57 AM |
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On 27 Nov 2004 04:59:56 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, (Truth Hunter)
pontificated:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
How can God who is both all-powerful, all-knowing and powerless,
ignorant at the same time?
Can a person who is both white and black at the same time?
Can a person who is both male and female at the same time?
Can a person who is both married and a bachelor at the same time?
Can a person who is both short and tall at the same time?
Can a person who is both fat and thin at the same time?
Can a person who is both rich and poor at the same time?
How can God be both man AND God at the same time?
There are a number of situations where the two are definitely mutually
exclusive, at least in a modern Western understanding of it. For
example, one of the major points in the understanding of humanity is
the concept of temptation; humans are temptable, and can either
overcome temptation or submit to it. God is not subject to temptation.
Into which category does a God/man fall, then?
Or, better example: immortality. Man can die, but God cannot. Can a
God/man die? There are other examples, too, of course, that's just
what popped into my head.
Explain to me how God can become human. I assume there's no need to
point out the "dramatic" differences between being the CREATOR and
being the CREATEES. By saying his nature doesn't change is saying he
doesn't actually become human. What is the value of Jesus if he was
not actually human in every sense?
The idea of a God/man is an oxymoron. The Christian creeds (as far as
I can tell) don't just say that Jesus looks like God from one side and
looks like man from another.They seem to insist that Jesus *is* God
and Jesus *is* man.
It is contradictory (not just paradoxical) for a being to be
human and God (finite and infinite) at the same time.
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world
unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."
- 2 Corinthians 5:19
Philippians 2:5-8
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ
Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not
robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him
the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of
men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled
himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death
of the cross.
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| User: "Lawrence Seib" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
29 Nov 2004 01:11:27 PM |
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Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<8i3hq0l6d75lsase6afueb3jt45e1lddmh@4ax.com>...
On 27 Nov 2004 04:59:56 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, (Truth Hunter)
pontificated:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
snipage
It is contradictory (not just paradoxical) for a being to be
human and God (finite and infinite) at the same time.
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world
unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."
- 2 Corinthians 5:19
I take this to mean that Christ is *not*, God,
but rather had God inside him.
Philippians 2:5-8
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ
Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not
robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him
the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of
men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled
himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death
of the cross.
So he obeyed the thing inside him.
Of coarse the whole thing was made up by Peter
anyway.
Larry
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
29 Nov 2004 08:24:24 PM |
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|
On 29 Nov 2004 11:11:27 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, (Lawrence Seib)
pontificated:
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<8i3hq0l6d75lsase6afueb3jt45e1lddmh@4ax.com>...
On 27 Nov 2004 04:59:56 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, (Truth Hunter)
pontificated:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
snipage
It is contradictory (not just paradoxical) for a being to be
human and God (finite and infinite) at the same time.
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world
unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."
- 2 Corinthians 5:19
I take this to mean that Christ is *not*, God,
but rather had God inside him.
Christ is God. You mean Jesus.
Of course Jesus was not God. God is not human. Christ
is God however and Christ was within Jesus.
Philippians 2:5-8
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ
Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not
robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him
the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of
men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled
himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death
of the cross.
So he obeyed the thing inside him.
Of coarse the whole thing was made up by Peter
anyway.
If you do not wish to discuss it intelligently, then
why not let people know that before they respond?
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| User: "Lawrence Seib" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
30 Nov 2004 10:27:22 AM |
|
|
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<8cmnq01f0k8evqvr0oihic8o17pekbo1so@4ax.com>...
On 29 Nov 2004 11:11:27 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, (Lawrence Seib)
pontificated:
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<8i3hq0l6d75lsase6afueb3jt45e1lddmh@4ax.com>...
On 27 Nov 2004 04:59:56 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, (Truth Hunter)
pontificated:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
snipage
It is contradictory (not just paradoxical) for a being to be
human and God (finite and infinite) at the same time.
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world
unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."
- 2 Corinthians 5:19
I take this to mean that Christ is *not*, God,
but rather had God inside him.
Christ is God. You mean Jesus.
Of course Jesus was not God. God is not human. Christ
is God however and Christ was within Jesus.
OK, but why call God christ then?
Philippians 2:5-8
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ
Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not
robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him
the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of
men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled
himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death
of the cross.
So he obeyed the thing inside him.
Of coarse the whole thing was made up by Peter
anyway.
If you do not wish to discuss it intelligently, then
why not let people know that before they respond?
You are right, I meant to say Paul, not Peter.
It seems to me that Paul wanted to make a new
religion and used the gosbels stories to
base them on.
Larry
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
30 Nov 2004 12:56:53 PM |
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On 30 Nov 2004 08:27:22 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, (Lawrence Seib)
pontificated:
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<8cmnq01f0k8evqvr0oihic8o17pekbo1so@4ax.com>...
On 29 Nov 2004 11:11:27 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, (Lawrence Seib)
pontificated:
Pastor Dave <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<8i3hq0l6d75lsase6afueb3jt45e1lddmh@4ax.com>...
On 27 Nov 2004 04:59:56 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, (Truth Hunter)
pontificated:
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
snipage
It is contradictory (not just paradoxical) for a being to be
human and God (finite and infinite) at the same time.
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world
unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."
- 2 Corinthians 5:19
I take this to mean that Christ is *not*, God,
but rather had God inside him.
Christ is God. You mean Jesus.
Of course Jesus was not God. God is not human. Christ
is God however and Christ was within Jesus.
OK, but why call God christ then?
Because Christ is God.
Philippians 2:5-8
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ
Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not
robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him
the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of
men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled
himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death
of the cross.
So he obeyed the thing inside him.
Of coarse the whole thing was made up by Peter
anyway.
If you do not wish to discuss it intelligently, then
why not let people know that before they respond?
You are right, I meant to say Paul, not Peter.
It seems to me that Paul wanted to make a new
religion and used the gosbels stories to
base them on.
It seems to you.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
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| User: "georgann" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
01 Dec 2004 07:19:43 AM |
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Of course Jesus was not God. God is not human. Christ
is God however and Christ was within Jesus.
OK, but why call God christ then?
Pastor Dave wrote:
Because Christ is God.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
That is so and so why did you contradict me when I quoted John 14:7?
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
"As Benjamin Franklin left the State House in Philadelphia
on the closing day of the Constitutional Convention, a woman
asked him what kind of government the statesmen had given America.
Franklin replied: 'A republic, Madame, if you can keep it.'
http://www.boingboing.net/images/Purple-USA.jpg
http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
02 Dec 2004 08:46:29 PM |
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 13:19:43 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
pontificated:
Of course Jesus was not God. God is not human. Christ
is God however and Christ was within Jesus.
OK, but why call God christ then?
Pastor Dave wrote:
Because Christ is God.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
That is so and so why did you contradict me when I quoted John 14:7?
If memory serves, your argument is that Jesus is God.
My point was that the human body was not God. The
Christ within was God. Since the other person was
making such a fine tuned argument, it was appropriate
to make the technical point.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
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\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
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