| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Truth Hunter" |
| Date: |
27 Nov 2004 06:59:56 AM |
| Object: |
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
How can God who is both all-powerful, all-knowing and powerless,
ignorant at the same time?
Can a person who is both white and black at the same time?
Can a person who is both male and female at the same time?
Can a person who is both married and a bachelor at the same time?
Can a person who is both short and tall at the same time?
Can a person who is both fat and thin at the same time?
Can a person who is both rich and poor at the same time?
How can God be both man AND God at the same time?
There are a number of situations where the two are definitely mutually
exclusive, at least in a modern Western understanding of it. For
example, one of the major points in the understanding of humanity is
the concept of temptation; humans are temptable, and can either
overcome temptation or submit to it. God is not subject to temptation.
Into which category does a God/man fall, then?
Or, better example: immortality. Man can die, but God cannot. Can a
God/man die? There are other examples, too, of course, that's just
what popped into my head.
Explain to me how God can become human. I assume there's no need to
point out the "dramatic" differences between being the CREATOR and
being the CREATEES. By saying his nature doesn't change is saying he
doesn't actually become human. What is the value of Jesus if he was
not actually human in every sense?
The idea of a God/man is an oxymoron. The Christian creeds (as far as
I can tell) don't just say that Jesus looks like God from one side and
looks like man from another.They seem to insist that Jesus *is* God
and Jesus *is* man.
It is contradictory (not just paradoxical) for a being to be
human and God (finite and infinite) at the same time.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Bumper Sticker
*============================================================================*
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath !
*============================================================================*
.
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| User: "Witziges Rätsel" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 09:01:51 AM |
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It's only make-believe.
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| User: "Chuckles" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 07:21:40 AM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
It's an ancient pagan tradition. For example, some of the Roman emporers
were gods. It used to happen all the time.
How can God who is both all-powerful, all-knowing and powerless,
ignorant at the same time?
A truly powerful god has the power to be powerless and ignorant.
Can a person who is both white and black at the same time?
Can a person who is both male and female at the same time?
Can a person who is both married and a bachelor at the same time?
Can a person who is both short and tall at the same time?
Can a person who is both fat and thin at the same time?
Can a person who is both rich and poor at the same time?
These things are impossible for mere mortals, however God can do
all things, including the totally absurd and impossible.
How can God be both man AND God at the same time?
There are a number of situations where the two are definitely mutually
exclusive, at least in a modern Western understanding of it.
2000 years ago, it was far easier to understand balderdash than it is
today.
Or, better example: immortality. Man can die, but God cannot. Can a
God/man die? There are other examples, too, of course, that's just
what popped into my head.
It all depends on how one defines words. The Christian, for example,
is not bound by commonly believed definitions. The Christian can
say that God died and not have any problems. For the Christian, death
means that you experience rigor mortis and start decaying. Then a few
days later you're back in life again, in better shape than ever before and
possessing magical powers. For the ordinary person, death means
you decay and you're gone forever. It's all a matter of words, nothing
else.
Explain to me how God can become human. I assume there's no need to
point out the "dramatic" differences between being the CREATOR and
being the CREATEES. By saying his nature doesn't change is saying he
doesn't actually become human. What is the value of Jesus if he was
not actually human in every sense?
Jesus morphed constantly between being God and man at a light-speed
pace. For an infinitisimally small period of time, He was God. Then for
the next infinitisimally small period of time, He was man.
The idea of a God/man is an oxymoron. The Christian creeds (as far as
I can tell) don't just say that Jesus looks like God from one side and
looks like man from another.They seem to insist that Jesus *is* God
and Jesus *is* man.
It is contradictory (not just paradoxical) for a being to be
human and God (finite and infinite) at the same time.
It's all a part of the cult experience. Believing in the flagrantly impossible
is the first step in turning your mind over to the control of the cult leaders.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 10:07:26 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0411270459.5f9b934d@posting.google.com...
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
Since there isn't a God He can't.
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| User: "SDesk" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
28 Nov 2004 09:55:19 AM |
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"Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:2acqd.5321$NU3.4015@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
|
| "Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:e164e783.0411270459.5f9b934d@posting.google.com...
| > How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
| >
|
| Since there isn't a God He can't.
|
Actually, Ike, God is.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
28 Nov 2004 05:14:22 PM |
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"SDesk" <sdeskpassport@coldmail.com> wrote in message
news:G-GdndRoiKp0aTTcRVn-2g@rogers.com...
"Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:2acqd.5321$NU3.4015@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
|
| "Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:e164e783.0411270459.5f9b934d@posting.google.com...
| > How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
| >
|
| Since there isn't a God He can't.
|
Actually, Ike, God is.
I read that and didn't see any burning bush or even burning toast.
--
Freedom of thought entails no "Intellectual Property".
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
28 Nov 2004 03:02:53 PM |
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SDesk wrote:
"Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:2acqd.5321$NU3.4015@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
|
| "Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:e164e783.0411270459.5f9b934d@posting.google.com...
| > How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
| >
|
| Since there isn't a God He can't.
|
Actually, Ike, God is.
My Easter Bunny can beat up your god.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
28 Nov 2004 11:52:08 PM |
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wbarwell wrote:
SDesk wrote:
"Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:2acqd.5321$NU3.4015@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
|
| "Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:e164e783.0411270459.5f9b934d@posting.google.com...
| > How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
| >
|
| Since there isn't a God He can't.
|
Actually, Ike, God is.
My Easter Bunny can beat up your god.
My Lepracaun can duff up your Easter Bunny in three rounds
Donald Duck can referee
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
28 Nov 2004 10:22:01 PM |
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wbarwell wrote:
SDesk wrote:
"Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:2acqd.5321$NU3.4015@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
|
| "Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:e164e783.0411270459.5f9b934d@posting.google.com...
| > How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
| >
|
| Since there isn't a God He can't.
|
Actually, Ike, God is.
My Easter Bunny can beat up your god.
That must have something to do with "going to hell in an Easter
basket", doesn't it?
Denny
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "jw no" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 01:32:58 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0411270459.5f9b934d@posting.google.com...
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
How can God who is both all-powerful, all-knowing and powerless,
ignorant at the same time?
Can a person who is both white and black at the same time?
Can a person who is both male and female at the same time?
Can a person who is both married and a bachelor at the same time?
Can a person who is both short and tall at the same time?
Can a person who is both fat and thin at the same time?
Can a person who is both rich and poor at the same time?
How can God be both man AND God at the same time?
I guess it is because it would not be inconsistent with His nature and His
essence. Black & white, male & female, tall & short, fat & thin, rich &
poor etc. etc. cannot co-exist together at the same time because they are
opposite or opposing ends. God clothing Himself with a human body, while
being a miracle, and granted, incomprehensible to the human mind, does not
place Him in the position where He ceases being God. It means that He chose
to give Himself a human body.
The prophets foretold that Messiah would be human (albeit a sinless human):
Messiah would be: born of the seed of a woman (Genesis 3:15); be the
"seed of Abraham" (Genesis 12:3), through Isaac, (Genesis 17:19; Genesis
21:12), Jacob and the "star out of Jacob" who will "have dominion" (Genesis
28:14; Numbers 24:17,19 ); a descendant descendant of Judah (Genesis
49:10), an heir to the throne of David (2 Samuel 7:12-13 ; Isaiah 9:6-7 ;
Isaiah 11:1-5 ; Jeremiah 23:5).
Additionally, Messiah would also be God:
He will have eternal existance (Micah 5:1(2) ); be the Son of God (Psalm
2:7 ; Proverbs 30:4); possess the same attributes as God (Psalm 110:1);
will be "born" but have God's own name (Isaiah 9:6-7; Jeremiah 23:5-6 ); Be
sinless (Isaiah 53:9).
How did He do it? If I could fully explain it so that everyone understands
it then I will be as good as Him - something that is not likely to happen.
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| User: "Tom Sevart" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 11:28:50 AM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0411270459.5f9b934d@posting.google.com...
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
I believe many Greek gods and gods of other ancient religions were man-gods,
in other words men who had godlike powers. At any rate, understanding
Christian beliefs it's not hard to see how it could happen. If you believe
in an all-powerful god than that god can do anything.
Can a person who is both white and black at the same time?
If they had a black father and white mother, or white father and black
mother.
Can a person who is both male and female at the same time?
Hermaphrodites.
Can a person who is both married and a bachelor at the same time?
What if they're separated, still legally married but not living together?
Can a person who is both short and tall at the same time?
Yes. They can be short standing next to a really tall person, and tall
standing next to a midget.
Can a person who is both fat and thin at the same time?
Yes, again depending on who you stand next to.
Can a person who is both rich and poor at the same time?
Compared to Bill Gates, I'm poor. Compared to a bag lady, I'm rich.
How can God be both man AND God at the same time?
Again, you have to understand Christian beliefs. A perfect, all-powerful
god should be able to do anything. This part, if such a god exists, isn't
hard to understand. The part which doesn't make sense is what you posted as
the bumper sticker in your sig line:
*===========================================================================
=*
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath !
*===========================================================================
=*
This is the part any rational-thinking person should have trouble with
understanding. God was angry at humanity (which he created with the ability
to do evil and knew they would do so), so he sent himself (as Jesus) to
earth to save humanity from his own anger by sacrificing himself (Jesus) to
himself. Now why would an all-perfect god get angry in the first place?
And why is the only way to fix the problem, instead of snapping his fingers
and obliterating evil (something an all-powerful god would be able to do),
he has to send part of himself to earth to be sacrificed to himself to make
himself happy?
Tom
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| User: "TheWanderer" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 02:17:03 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0411270459.5f9b934d@posting.google.com...
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
How can God who is both all-powerful, all-knowing and powerless,
ignorant at the same time?
Can a person who is both white and black at the same time?
Yes, Mulattos
Can a person who is both male and female at the same time?
Yes, Hermathrodite
Can a person who is both married and a bachelor at the same time?
Can a person who is both short and tall at the same time?
Yes, short in US, but tall in asia
Can a person who is both fat and thin at the same time?
Yes, fat in asia, but thin in US
Can a person who is both rich and poor at the same time?
Rich in Mexico, while poor in US
How can God be both man AND God at the same time?
I AM YOUR GOD *****
There are a number of situations where the two are definitely mutually
exclusive, at least in a modern Western understanding of it. For
example, one of the major points in the understanding of humanity is
the concept of temptation; humans are temptable, and can either
overcome temptation or submit to it. God is not subject to temptation.
Into which category does a God/man fall, then?
Or, better example: immortality. Man can die, but God cannot. Can a
God/man die? There are other examples, too, of course, that's just
what popped into my head.
Explain to me how God can become human. I assume there's no need to
point out the "dramatic" differences between being the CREATOR and
being the CREATEES. By saying his nature doesn't change is saying he
doesn't actually become human. What is the value of Jesus if he was
not actually human in every sense?
The idea of a God/man is an oxymoron. The Christian creeds (as far as
I can tell) don't just say that Jesus looks like God from one side and
looks like man from another.They seem to insist that Jesus *is* God
and Jesus *is* man.
It is contradictory (not just paradoxical) for a being to be
human and God (finite and infinite) at the same time.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Bumper Sticker
*============================================================================*
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath !
*============================================================================*
.
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
27 Nov 2004 07:42:35 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0411270459.5f9b934d@posting.google.com...
How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time?
God is supposedly a sort of spirit that fathered Jesus (this only means
something divine in a pre-genetics world -- the effect of biological
fatherhood in a child is mere genetics), and so God was in Jesus and
therefore was to some extent Jesus.
~Iain
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| User: "georgann" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
30 Nov 2004 06:38:52 AM |
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Iain wrote:
and so God was in Jesus and therefore was to some extent Jesus
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
If you read the Bible for comprehension of the whole, you'll see that Jesus
isn't just to some extent God or that God was "to some extent Jesus" but
they are very literally One. In particular if you'll read John 14:7 several
times in a row, its very plain that when you look at Jesus you are looking
at the Father. "If you had known Me [Jesus], you would have known My Father
also; from now on you know Him and have seen Him".
Note the "from now on" part of His statement. The matter of "when" you could
see Him seems to be the logical sticking point with most people.
It essentially means that until Jesus was born no one could see the Father.
Now, since He has been born, anyone can see Him. (Not that everyone will
choose to do so.)
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
"As Benjamin Franklin left the State House in Philadelphia
on the closing day of the Constitutional Convention, a woman
asked him what kind of government the statesmen had given America.
Franklin replied: 'A republic, Madame, if you can keep it.'
http://www.boingboing.net/images/Purple-USA.jpg
http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
30 Nov 2004 12:26:50 PM |
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On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:38:52 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
pontificated:
Iain wrote:
and so God was in Jesus and therefore was to some extent Jesus
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
If you read the Bible for comprehension of the whole, you'll see that Jesus
isn't just to some extent God or that God was "to some extent Jesus" but
they are very literally One. In particular if you'll read John 14:7 several
times in a row, its very plain that when you look at Jesus you are looking
at the Father. "If you had known Me [Jesus], you would have known My Father
also; from now on you know Him and have seen Him".
Jesus was not speaking of His physical appearance. He
was speaking of who He is.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "georgann" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
01 Dec 2004 07:07:59 AM |
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georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
If you read the Bible for comprehension of the whole, you'll see that Jesus
isn't just to some extent God or that God was "to some extent Jesus" but they
are very literally One. In particular if you'll read John 14:7 several times
in a row, its very plain that when you look at Jesus you are looking at the
Father. "If you had known Me [Jesus], you would have known My Father also;
from now on you know Him and have seen Him".
Pastor Dave wrote:
Jesus was not speaking of His physical appearance. He was speaking of who He
is.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
"...from now on you know Him [the Father] and have seen Him" is a point
blank statement, Dave. To mess it up requires a theology that is also messed
up.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
"As Benjamin Franklin left the State House in Philadelphia
on the closing day of the Constitutional Convention, a woman
asked him what kind of government the statesmen had given America.
Franklin replied: 'A republic, Madame, if you can keep it.'
http://www.boingboing.net/images/Purple-USA.jpg
http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
03 Dec 2004 11:32:09 AM |
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 13:07:59 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
pontificated:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
If you read the Bible for comprehension of the whole, you'll see that Jesus
isn't just to some extent God or that God was "to some extent Jesus" but they
are very literally One. In particular if you'll read John 14:7 several times
in a row, its very plain that when you look at Jesus you are looking at the
Father. "If you had known Me [Jesus], you would have known My Father also;
from now on you know Him and have seen Him".
Pastor Dave wrote:
Jesus was not speaking of His physical appearance. He was speaking of who He
is.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
"...from now on you know Him [the Father] and have seen Him" is a point
blank statement, Dave. To mess it up requires a theology that is also messed
up.
Okay, so God does not look very good then, I guess.
"...he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall
see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him."
- Isaiah 53:2
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
02 Dec 2004 08:47:09 PM |
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 13:07:59 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
pontificated:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
If you read the Bible for comprehension of the whole, you'll see that Jesus
isn't just to some extent God or that God was "to some extent Jesus" but they
are very literally One. In particular if you'll read John 14:7 several times
in a row, its very plain that when you look at Jesus you are looking at the
Father. "If you had known Me [Jesus], you would have known My Father also;
from now on you know Him and have seen Him".
Pastor Dave wrote:
Jesus was not speaking of His physical appearance. He was speaking of who He
is.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
"...from now on you know Him [the Father] and have seen Him" is a point
blank statement, Dave. To mess it up requires a theology that is also messed
up.
You think that to look at Jesus' physical appearance
was to look at the Father's physical appearance?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "georgann" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
03 Dec 2004 08:22:59 AM |
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georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
"...from now on you know Him [the Father] and have seen Him" is a point blank
statement, Dave. To mess it up requires a theology that is also messed up.
Pastor Dave wrote:
You think that to look at Jesus' physical appearance was to look at the
Father's physical appearance?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Yes. "From now on", just as Christ said. Plus His Shekinah Glory, it will
nonetheless be Jesus we see when we eventually are united with the Father.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
"As Benjamin Franklin left the State House in Philadelphia
on the closing day of the Constitutional Convention, a woman
asked him what kind of government the statesmen had given America.
Franklin replied: 'A republic, Madame, if you can keep it.'
http://www.boingboing.net/images/Purple-USA.jpg
http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
01 Dec 2004 07:31:56 AM |
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georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
If you read the Bible for comprehension of the whole, you'll see that Jesus
isn't just to some extent God or that God was "to some extent Jesus" but
they are very literally One. In particular if you'll read John 14:7 several times
in a row, its very plain that when you look at Jesus you are looking at the
Father. "If you had known Me [Jesus], you would have known My Father
also; from now on you know Him and have seen Him".
Pastor Dave wrote:
Jesus was not speaking of His physical appearance. He was speaking of
who He is.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
"...from now on you know Him [the Father] and have seen Him" is a point
blank statement, Dave. To mess it up requires a theology that is also messed
up.
If you believe the above, then surely you can't blame the Jewish
priests for wanting to stone Jesus to death, since claiming that he
was God himself would be considered blasphemy at the time, and
according to Jewish law, punishable by death.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://www.eapnews.com
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| User: "georgann" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
01 Dec 2004 08:48:54 AM |
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If you read the Bible for comprehension of the whole, you'll see that Jesus
isn't just to some extent God or that God was "to some extent Jesus" but
they are very literally One. In particular if you'll read John 14:7
several times in a row, its very plain that when you look at Jesus you are
looking at the Father. "If you had known Me [Jesus], you would have known
My Father also; from now on you know Him and have seen Him".
Pastor Dave wrote:
Jesus was not speaking of His physical appearance. He was speaking of who
He is.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
"...from now on you know Him [the Father] and have seen Him" is a point blank
statement, Dave. To mess it up requires a theology that is also messed up.
Elroy Willis wrote:
If you believe the above, then surely you can't blame the Jewish priests for
wanting to stone Jesus to death, since claiming that he was God himself would
be considered blasphemy at the time, and according to Jewish law, punishable
by death.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
The Jewish "priests" were not capable of recognizing God in the flesh
because of the heresies they picked up in Babylon. But since Jesus was God,
their laws of stoning should not have applied to Him.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
"As Benjamin Franklin left the State House in Philadelphia
on the closing day of the Constitutional Convention, a woman
asked him what kind of government the statesmen had given America.
Franklin replied: 'A republic, Madame, if you can keep it.'
http://www.boingboing.net/images/Purple-USA.jpg
http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
01 Dec 2004 08:39:33 PM |
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 14:48:54 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
wrote:
The Jewish "priests" were not capable of recognizing God in the flesh
because of the heresies they picked up in Babylon. But since Jesus was God,
their laws of stoning should not have applied to Him.
However, since the Jewish "priests" were not capable...
See your lack of logic, "repented sinner"?
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
02 Dec 2004 09:43:56 AM |
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Jos Flachs <"wcruise"@ksc15.th.com> wrote in alt.atheism
georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
The Jewish "priests" were not capable of recognizing God in the flesh
because of the heresies they picked up in Babylon. But since Jesus was God,
their laws of stoning should not have applied to Him.
However, since the Jewish "priests" were not capable...
See your lack of logic, "repented sinner"?
If Jesus would've demonstrated some of his supposed supernatural
powers in front of the Jewish priests, they might have believed him,
and not wanted to kill him, but instead, he refused to prove he could
do anything supernatural at all, and decided to become a martyr
instead.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://www.eapnews.com
.
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| User: "georgann" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
02 Dec 2004 02:18:28 PM |
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Jos Flachs <"wcruise"@ksc15.th.com> wrote in alt.atheism
georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
The Jewish "priests" were not capable of recognizing God in the flesh
because of the heresies they picked up in Babylon. But since Jesus was God,
their laws of stoning should not have applied to Him.
However, since the Jewish "priests" were not capable...
See your lack of logic, "repented sinner"?
Elroy Willis wrote:
If Jesus would've demonstrated some of his supposed supernatural powers in
front of the Jewish priests, they might have believed him, and not wanted to
kill him, but instead, he refused to prove he could do anything supernatural
at all, and decided to become a martyr instead.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
You must not have read any of the four gospels in the New Testament, Elroy.
Jesus did many supernatural things. Just not to satisfy the demands of the
priests. Many people did see the miracles and they did believe.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
"As Benjamin Franklin left the State House in Philadelphia
on the closing day of the Constitutional Convention, a woman
asked him what kind of government the statesmen had given America.
Franklin replied: 'A republic, Madame, if you can keep it.'
http://www.boingboing.net/images/Purple-USA.jpg
http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
02 Dec 2004 06:31:59 PM |
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georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Jos Flachs <"wcruise"@ksc15.th.com> wrote in alt.atheism
georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
The Jewish "priests" were not capable of recognizing God in the flesh
because of the heresies they picked up in Babylon. But since Jesus was God,
their laws of stoning should not have applied to Him.
However, since the Jewish "priests" were not capable...
See your lack of logic, "repented sinner"?
Elroy Willis wrote:
If Jesus would've demonstrated some of his supposed supernatural powers in
front of the Jewish priests, they might have believed him, and not wanted to
kill him, but instead, he refused to prove he could do anything supernatural
at all, and decided to become a martyr instead.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
You must not have read any of the four gospels in the New Testament, Elroy.
Jesus did many supernatural things. Just not to satisfy the demands of the
priests. Many people did see the miracles and they did believe.
When called to the carpet, he couldn't back up the claims, so it was
his own fault that he got nailed to a stick, assuming he even existed
at all...
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://www.eapnews.com
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
02 Dec 2004 03:53:56 PM |
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georgann wrote:
Jos Flachs <"wcruise"@ksc15.th.com> wrote in alt.atheism
georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
The Jewish "priests" were not capable of recognizing God in the flesh
because of the heresies they picked up in Babylon. But since Jesus was God,
their laws of stoning should not have applied to Him.
However, since the Jewish "priests" were not capable...
See your lack of logic, "repented sinner"?
Elroy Willis wrote:
If Jesus would've demonstrated some of his supposed supernatural powers in
front of the Jewish priests, they might have believed him, and not wanted to
kill him, but instead, he refused to prove he could do anything supernatural
at all, and decided to become a martyr instead.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
You must not have read any of the four gospels in the New Testament, Elroy.
Jesus did many supernatural things. Just not to satisfy the demands of the
priests. Many people did see the miracles and they did believe.
Name one.
Since none of this crap was written about, till some 60 to 90 years,
after the fraud was supposed to have died, there really were no "eye
witnesses" to the claimed events.
And ain't it just funny how the people actually recording history at the
time, you know, the Romans and the Jews, seemed to have missed all
these, "many supernatural things." you claim happened.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
01 Dec 2004 03:21:28 PM |
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georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
If you read the Bible for comprehension of the whole, you'll see that Jesus
isn't just to some extent God or that God was "to some extent Jesus" but
they are very literally One. In particular if you'll read John 14:7
several times in a row, its very plain that when you look at Jesus you are
looking at the Father. "If you had known Me [Jesus], you would have known
My Father also; from now on you know Him and have seen Him".
Pastor Dave wrote:
Jesus was not speaking of His physical appearance. He was speaking of who
He is.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
"...from now on you know Him [the Father] and have seen Him" is a point blank
statement, Dave. To mess it up requires a theology that is also messed up.
Elroy Willis wrote:
If you believe the above, then surely you can't blame the Jewish priests for
wanting to stone Jesus to death, since claiming that he was God himself would
be considered blasphemy at the time, and according to Jewish law, punishable
by death.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
The Jewish "priests" were not capable of recognizing God in the flesh
For good reason, since images of anything in heaven were supposed to
be forbidden to them, just like they are now to the Muslims. But even
the Muslims break their own law with their flag with a Moon and star
on it. Do you know which star is supposed to be represented?
because of the heresies they picked up in Babylon.
You just love to harp on and on about the Jews being corrupted in
Babylon, and if you took your own words seriously, you'd be a die-hard
conservative Jew, but you couldn't seem to handle that for some
reason.
But since Jesus was God, their laws of stoning should not have applied to Him.
Oh well. He could've always done a magic trick when they tried to
stone him. Instead, he kept running away and hiding like a coward.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://www.eapnews.com
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| User: "SDesk" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
01 Dec 2004 03:53:41 PM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
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P.S.
Here's a little history:
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-photos-moon-worship-archealolgy.htm
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
01 Dec 2004 04:39:53 PM |
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SDesk <sdeskpassport@coldmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
P.S.
Here's a little history:
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-photos-moon-worship-archealolgy.htm
Thanks for the link.
Here's a snippet from it and a comment about it:
"The worship of the Moon god " Sîn" was widespread and common during
the time of Abraham. Contrary to Muslim claims, Abraham was asked to
leave Ur of the Chaldees where the moon god Sîn was worshipped and
migrate to Canaan and worship Jehovah. The Ur of Chaldees is in the
region of Babylon."
What Abraham ended up worshipping was the planet Jupiter, which
was called Zeus by the Greeks, and Zedek by some of the other people
in the area. Abraham was said to have broken bread with and paid
tithes to Malachi-Zedek or Melchizedek, which translates to "My King
is Zedek" or "My King is Justice," which was a name for the planet god
Jupiter which has a twelve year period, and hence where we get our
twelve man jury system from, according to some of the articles I've
read.
Other articles claimed that the twelve man jury comes from the twelve
constellations of the zodiac, but I think the 12-year period of
Jupiter the god of Justice makes more sense to me...
In ancient Rome, people swore on the planet Jupiter before giving
testimony in court, and is the origin of the phrase "By Jove." Jove
is another name for Jupiter, and astronomers still refer to it as the
Jovian planet.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://www.eapnews.com
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| User: "SDesk" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
01 Dec 2004 03:45:09 PM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
| georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
|
|||||| If you read the Bible for comprehension of the whole, you'll see
|||||| that Jesus isn't just to some extent God or that God was "to some
|||||| extent Jesus" but they are very literally One. In particular if
|||||| you'll read John 14:7 several times in a row, its very plain that
|||||| when you look at Jesus you are looking at the Father. "If you had
|||||| known Me [Jesus], you would have known My Father also; from now on
|||||| you know Him and have seen Him".
|
|||| Pastor Dave wrote:
|
||||| Jesus was not speaking of His physical appearance. He was speaking
||||| of who He is.
|
|||| georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
|
|||| "...from now on you know Him [the Father] and have seen Him" is a
|||| point blank statement, Dave. To mess it up requires a theology that is
|||| also messed up.
|
|| Elroy Willis wrote:
|
||| If you believe the above, then surely you can't blame the Jewish
||| priests for wanting to stone Jesus to death, since claiming that he was
||| God himself would be considered blasphemy at the time, and according to
||| Jewish law, punishable by death.
|
|| georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
|
|| The Jewish "priests" were not capable of recognizing God in the flesh
|
| For good reason, since images of anything in heaven were supposed to
| be forbidden to them, just like they are now to the Muslims. But even
| the Muslims break their own law with their flag with a Moon and star
| on it. Do you know which star is supposed to be represented?
|
*Probably* Venus. Look up crescent moon star islam on the web which
should give you info.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: How can Jesus be a man AND God at the same time? |
01 Dec 2004 04:09:46 PM |
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SDesk <sdeskpassport@coldmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
<snip>
For good reason, since images of anything in heaven were supposed to
be forbidden to them, just like they are now to the Muslims. But even
the Muslims break their own law with their flag with a Moon and star
on it. Do you know which star is supposed to be represented?
*Probably* Venus. Look up crescent moon star islam on the web which
should give you info.
I've read before that Venus is what it's supposed to represent, but
wasn't sure if it was true or not.
After just now doing some more Googling around, it looks like that's
what it means to me. It also represents the Virgin Mary according to
one of the links I read. Constantine apparently rededicated the city
of Constantinople to the virgin Mary, whose star symbol was added to
the previous crescent moon symbol of Diana/Artemis the moon goddess
which previously ruled the area.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://www.eapnews.com
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