| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Ilya Shambat" |
| Date: |
20 Nov 2004 08:28:57 PM |
| Object: |
How I came to God |
I was raised by mathematically-minded atheists in the Soviet Union,
the seat of communism. For a long time I was the most anti-Christian
person you'd know. I constantly talked about the evils of
Christianity, their repressions, their hypocrisy, their injustice.
When my first long-term girlfriend, Layo, did an astrology chart for
me, I thought she was joking. Then I looked at her work and found it
to be astonishingly accurate. When I drove cross-country to pick her
up, on the way back the car went into a spin at 75 MPH and stopped
inches away from going completely into a ditch.
We lived for a while in a cross-shaped apartment building across the
street from Addams House and few blocks away from the Arlington
Cemetery. We had a supernatural romance, and we had sex five times a
day. Then we moved to Baltimore, and our friend there, David Perry
(who goes on the Internet as David O'Bedlam) once stood in the middle
of the apartment and blew smoke into four corners. At the same time
that we had a falling out, her cousin's body was found in Grand
Canyon. Layo went into a suicidal depression and did not come out
until we moved away from Baltimore.
Once I woke up at 4 am, the presence of my ex-girlfriend named Kay
burning around me. I went to a computer and saw an attack she posted
on me, after having been away from the Internet for a year. I kept
feeling her presence and had delusions that she would send men after
me, until Layo did an invocation of Tzadgiel, the angel of truth, and
Kay collapsed upon herself.
We then studied metaphysics under an instructor, who taught us several
techniques of protecting ourselves spiritually. The more I did it
however the more it turned into a paranoia, with me constantly drawing
in energy that was bad rather than good and that left me worse off.
Layo kept attracting men from the Internet who were sorcerers and who
kept invading our psychic space, whether by coming in psychic form and
sexually attacking her or contaminating us with toxicity.
We stayed with the instructor for a month. After an argument with Layo
the instructor turned on us and put us under a hex, and I started
feeling her presence attacking me in my head all the time. I also
started being involuntarily moved to look at the clock while it was
saying such numbers as 3:33 or 11:11. Meanwhile the sorcerers were in
our heads, with every thought we had running into their manipulations.
We went to a psychic and paid a huge sum of money to get them off of
us. She said that they had interpenetrated us. When this was done,
while we were vacationing in Burningman, Layo met another man who was
a magickian and stayed behind with him in California, while I went
back to Virginia to finish the contract on which I was working. The
psychic told me to go to the source of light in Jesus, and she gave me
a Mother Mary amulet and a cross that said Jesus is Lord. When I came
back to pick Layo up, I felt her under a heavy dark cloud, no longer
sparkly like she used to be, while the man was sending cutting energy
my way.
A heliocentric astrologer who had once used astrology to repair a
company and earn $450000 in stock as it went up foretold a shift in
international mood from Virgo to Libra, to last for 12 years starting
in 1999. He said that Libra age was going to be about romance, about
arts, about principles and about confrontation. So I was preparing
myself for being on the right side of the age of Libra, writing
psychedelic prose and practicing meditation.
I went to New York and spent three months in the home of a Jewish
doctor who, as a child, had been contacted by Jesus Christ, and who
invented a method of treatment called carbon dioxide therapy that
helped cure addictions but, because of his zany personality, was never
implemented on a large scale. He had in his house the photos he made
of Jesus Christ and demons. I meditated a lot and wrote there, putting
my work on the Internet. I was seeing a lady who was very spiritually
developed - very naturally wise and talented. I did a mindmeld with
her using astrology magick (aligning my planets with hers based on the
trines in our shared chart and keeping them up through an effort of
will), and from this poured forth creative energy. I used it to
analyze the psychoanalytic tradition in Western thought and write
pieces such as these: http://www.geocities.com/drr0cket/minute.htm.
I attracted lots of attention for my writing. A woman who was a
descendant of Mary Queen of Scots, and who had had lots of
supernatural things happen to her, started corresponding with me, and
we communicated our insights to each other. She wrote a song that hit
#2 on MP3 charts. I was watching fireworks in New York, and I felt her
presence next to the fireworks - a huge pyramidal golden spirit; a
beautiful and strong spirit - and she later confirmed that she did see
fireworks with the eye of the mind and a boy watching. When I talked
to her on the phone I walked outside, and I saw above me in the blue
sky white dots - many, many little white dots - and at the top of
them, hovering in perfect stillness and soft energy, two radiant white
dots next to each other and saying to me hello. I saw with the eye of
the mind a beautiful blonde woman walking on a beach, feeling magnetic
pull from the ocean - the mermaid coming back for her severed tail -
the expression of love, the landed intelligence of mermaid that went
on land to marry the prince, coming back to the ocean for the marine
intelligence, the dolphin, the severed tail, to come back and make her
complete. I saw this as woman being the bridge between the Appolonian
and the Dionysian, who needed both to complete the world and be a
unified entity.
I talked on the phone with a friend in Tucson, and I saw clouds
overhead making faces. We talked about fire, and she said that next
morning there were fires in the mountains. I went on a bus trip, first
saw the descendant of Queen Mary for a day and had an incredible time
at the riverside (while honoring her marital wows), then I went to
Tucson, was mugged and became homeless.
Throughout this time I was feeling a part of a global stream of
consciousness, that was seeking to reconcile everybody on a psychic
level, across all religions and nationalities, and create a union that
is divine and enlightened.. a union animated by higher consciousness,
with people using Reiki energy to heal political and social situations
and bring everyone toward working for global harmony and global
peace.. an order where the transcultural lovers, who through their
love for each other and understanding of the psychological and
cultural forces that run through them, under their will, integrate and
reconcile their respective civilizations and make the nation-state and
the religious establishment less relevant. I saw a lot of happy
international couples then. I also saw in my meditations the
situations in various countries, and later I read the news stories
confirming my intuitions.
I had motifs from literature and mythology appear in my head. First
and foremost among these were Anna Karenina, the mermaid and
Persephone. I went into an art gallery in Tucson and saw there a bust
of a raver with letters written in Russian, "Anna Arkadievna Karenina:
I delight in her." I saw statues of Mermaids in various forms and
heard people repeatedly refer to women as mermaids. I ran into a band
named Persephone's Bees, led by a Russian singer who wrote romantic
tunes.
Another feature of that time was me picking up on what was in people's
mind field and then relating it to literature. I spent some time in a
house in which lived a young woman whom I called a stork because she
had had her leg taken off by a train, and she had a tattoo of a bird
on half of her body, and an Indian girl whom I called a dragon because
of her hairstyle. I said that they were there to give fire and air -
to take the merger of marine and land intelligence, the Dionysian and
the Appolonian, the man and the dolphin, and teach them to fly. I
called the stork Dido, for her lover had left her precipitating her
accident, and I ran into several people who were Persephone figures,
spending part time in the upper world, part time in the underworld,
bringing light into the dark parts of the world while bringing into
the upper parts of the world the insight, if injurious, of the
underworld.
I figured that, in order to heal the Western civilization, one had to
overcome what I called the Elizabethan script. Queen Elizabeth, when
she became Queen, was betrayed by her lover and since then became
completely cold. The Western civilization as we now know it was
founded by Queen Elizabeth, who took the world out of feudalism and
created a magnificent global civilization. However, her civilization
was tragic, for love had to be sacrificed that it be built.
I was seeing the English and the American literary solutions to the
problem of clan vs. love... with the English solution, Romeo and
Juliet were sacrificed so that the clans could end their feud and work
together on building a civilization; with the American solution, found
in Mark Twain, lovers swim the river while the clans kill each other
off. I figured that neither of these solutions were complete - that
for a happy, integrated society to take effect, lovers had to be
together and bring their families together... and I embarked upon the
project of redifining cultural mythos in order that people would have
such a possibility in their consciousness.
SO here I was, seeing things happen around the world and affecting
them, until I came across Israel. And Jewish people, seeing me as one
of their own who had gone astray, would have nothing to do with me.
The next thing I know, I read a news story about a Jewish boy who got
seduced by a Palestinian girl over the Internet and then murdered by
Palestinians - a bad twist on Romeo and Juliet; a case of love usurped
by the clan for the purpose of tribal hatred. Then fighting broke out
between Israel and the Palestine. Gore's numbers went down. I saw an
international couple break up right in front of me, with the woman
crying. I felt a spiritual force come at me that I could not resolve.
I woke up the next day in San Francisco and found everyone hateful or
suffering or crying or glaring at me. My friend in Tucson thought of
me and then heard someone say in a restaurant, "Oh, I guess he
drowned. I guess he hadn't learned to swim."
I got an invitation to an interview in New York and asked my parents
for money to get back to the East Coast. The interview never
materialized, but over the next several months I translated books by
Mandelshtam, Akhmatova and Tsvetayeva - three great Russian poets -
and put them up on the Internet
(http://www.geocities.com/ilya_shambat). I was moved to do this
because Persephone's Bees were inspired by Mandelshtam, and once I
read Mandelshtam I fell in love with his poetry.
I started reading the Bible. I was alternating the nights between
praying for a long time to God - never for myself, I figured I had no
stake with him, rather for other people and nations, while thanking
him for the gifts he gave me - and doing Buddhist meditation or Falun
Gong exercises. Once, when people were attacking me psychologically, I
felt the presence of Jesus around me, soothing me and keeping them
away. I felt its beauty and peace and said I would follow Him.
Then I felt the voice of my psychic instructor telling me that I could
pick one out of many women. Applying my spiritual lessons (go only for
someone who is all light; do not fixate) I finally said, One who is
the best artist. Within a week I met the most magnificent woman artist
who lives in the world today, and we fell in love under miraculous
circumstances, as she was just getting a divorce, about the only time
that a woman as beautiful as is she would ever be single. She loved my
poetry, and I wrote her 50 poems, some of which are on the net
(http://www.geocities.com/ilya_shambat/poems.htm) and others,
including these, are in a self-published book of poetry which I would
send anyone who asks.
This woman - I'll call her Jessica, that's not her real name - was a
devout Christian. She said that when she was my age she had practiced
meditation and yoga and mysticism, but that she always returned to
Jesus. She said that her life had been saved miraculously under
several circumstances, including swinging from a vine in the
mountains, the vine breaking and her falling into a pile of leaves,
and being thrown by a horse across a field at full gallop. She told me
that there were bad spirits that came to people, especially talented
ones, and lead them astray by their desires then took away everything
they loved. She said that spirits other than Holy SPirit promised
illusory freedom then made one a robot for them, but the Holy Spirit
was the true friend that offered real liberty. She said that God gave
me my abilities so that I would serve Him and not so that I would
serve other spirits. Then she put this question to me. "You are
studying all these other religions. Why not study the religion that
claims to be the true one?"
Pretty miraculous things happened while we were together. We would
wake up together in the middle of the night, thoughts occurring in my
mind involuntarily that were unfriendly toward her, and her reading
those thoughts until I forcefully willed my mind against these
thoughts. Her dog jumping off from a wall, startled by a spirit whose
presence she too could feel. She hearing me say things to her
spiritually and then me telling her these things in person. She
hearing her ex-husband, who had been anti-spiritual before meeting
her, talk to her in spirit, saying in her mind, "OK [Tom], if you are
talking to me call me" and hearing him call in 30 seconds and confirm
that he had been talking to her spiritually. We both saw master
numbers, and she said that every time I saw a master number I should
make a wish. I made wishes for her and for the world.
Throughout this time I kept getting wishes to see this whole
psychic-religious thing as simply a horrible nightmare that would some
day pass away, leaving me back to the comforting mathematical
worldview that I had been taught. I read an essay titled "Archeology
refutes Bible's claim to history" and felt a relief, but another part
of my mind said that the essay was wrong and - what's more - that
feeling this relief was morally wrong. It was right. It turned out,
after I did more research, that most of the Bible (except of course
the Creation story), including such unlikely stories as Jews exiting
from Egypt and the fall of Jericho around the time of Joshua's
invasion and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and the cultural
practices of the pre-flood times, has been archeologically validated,
refuting the skeptical attacks on the Bible. The Creation story, I was
told, can be seen as a metaphor ("You are a poet. You use metaphors in
your work all the time. Why can't God?")
Then I was confronted with the story of Jesus, including all the
precise references to Him in the Tanach, including such things as His
manner of death and the events leading up to His birth - things that
He could not have possibly controlled. The choice was as follows:
Either the Old Testament was all wrong (which it clearly wasn't), or
Jesus was who He said He was. The other possibility - that Jesus was
meant to be the Messiah but said things that were untrue but useful,
in a way that say Eastern masters, believing that truth is relative,
say things that are objectively untrue in order to guide people toward
where they think they should be in spiritual development - assumed
that lying was a valid basis for building a civilization; something
that Plato implied in the Republic but that was entirely inconsistent
with Biblical morals.
[Jessica's] older brother was a priest, and he talked to me. I told
him that at age 10 I had felt a presence around me that called itself
God, and that said it was going to give me lots of power; and that
within a year I was writing nd reciting bombastic poetry-philosophy
and getting recognized for what a great genius I was. He said that
that spirit was most likely not God, but that the things I sought were
available in God as well. THen he prayed for "Satan" to leave me,
after which [Jessica] hugged me and said, "You're free baby, you're
free!"
The thing is, the sermons at the church we went to - the huge
mega-church run by a Jew for Jesus named Lon Solomon - made sense.
These people had dealt with what we had dealt with, and they came out
with spiritual lessons, with real knowledge based in experience and
examination. These people preached about using one's talents to the
utmost, about being forgiving, about extending kindness to outcasts,
about being honorable and upright - all things that were good and
real, and that were bolstered with real examples from real lives. I
figured that the condemnation against organized religion that is so
fashionable among liberal people is actually weakening, for it
isolates one from lots of great spiritual thought that gets refined
over time in institutions dedicated to it. So I started going to that
church and listening to their sermons.
[Jessica] told me that I was rebellious and that I needed to refine my
soul through overcoming physical challenges. So one day, in the snow,
I went into a forest and sat meditating on the Holy SPirit, dressed
quite lightly, for 23 hours and walked barefoot in the snow. I heard
animals howl; I wasn't afraid. A couple weeks later I went to a river
and swam in the ice-cold water, protected by Holy Spirit as she was
sending it to me, and then I stood naked for 30 minutes on the banks
of the river, in the snow, with my arms raised, saying, "I love the
Holy Spirit." I did not get sick. Was that the Holy Spirit? I said it
could have been her spirit, which to me was the same difference
because her spirit of pink orchids and flowers was the most beautiful
thing I'd ever seen, and I wanted to spend an eternity where she was
going.
I noticed a stange thing happening. Whenever I had Jesus around me -
whenever I allowed him into my heart - I was able to do things better,
with more skill and more joy and more power and more ultimate success,
than I did when I did not have Him around me. This led to a battle
within my soul, between what I had learned from other religions about
reincarnation and from education about evolution, and the very real
fact that Jesus's presence could be connected to improvements in my
life. How is that possible, if He was a liar and a lunatic, for Him to
still be around and effect such dramatic changes in the mind of the
person who connected to Him? The only explanation I could come up with
was that Jesus Christ was real, and other forces were not of the
light.
Then I got what I had been looking for. Lon said that Christian life
is a life that is supernatural - where Holy Spirit elevates one out of
one's personality and gives tremendous resources of kindness and mercy
and strength that one does not naturally have. I have trouble getting
along with people and have a tendency toward wasting myself in
retributions and vengeance. This was all I needed: Grace. To elevate
me out of these cycles and focus on serving God.
Regarding grace, he said the following. "Guilt paralyzes; grace
motivates." He used the example of Paul when confronted by Jesus: "If
he had been in guilt, he would have been paralyzed with self-loathing
for having killed all these Christians. But grace motivated him into
action, and he was chosen to write a third of the New Testament." This
was a useful perspective.
A couple at the church guided me through a conversion process. "Do you
admit that you are a sinner?" "Yes, most certainly." "Do you recognize
that Jesus Christ died for your sins?" This led to a long discussion,
in which I said things like "I'll die for my sins if anyone does"
(notable discussion on the Usenet: "Jesus died for your sins" - "I did
not ask him to") and they talked about the lake of fire awaiting
anyone whose name is not in the Book of Life, and by then I knew to
not scoff at what's written in the Bible so I eventually accepted. "DO
you give your life to the service of Jesus Christ?" - if He saved me
from lake of fire I would have to, now wouldn't I?
I had excruciating chest pains one day and felt like I was going to
die. I experienced extreme clarity of mind, and a queasy feeling that
I was not going to go to the right place. I prayed Lord's prayer; that
only made matters worse. Then I looked at the message of my philosophy
- that heart and mind ought to work together in a synthesis; a merger
of romanticism and rationalism - and realized that both heart and mind
in themselves lack a conscience, and all action by both mind and heart
had to be done within the framework of godliness. After I had that
thought the chest pains went away. "Better be good, I'll check up on
you," said God.
So now it's the daily battle within my soul, between good and evil.
The God I talk to is very understanding, but also demanding and does
not tolerate things that are biblically wrong. I do things for Him,
and sometimes He takes my advice on things that He had not previously
thought of. And Jesus is there to instruct me in His ways.
.
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| User: "Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Clayton...but were afraid to ask!" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 12:32:57 AM |
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"Ilya Shambat" <bodhisattvacat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a67f71c.0411201828.301f11ba@posting.google.com...
I was raised by mathematically-minded atheists in the Soviet Union,
the seat of communism.
<snip obvious lies, ignorance and trollage>.
How I don't give a *****....let me count the ways!
<plonk>
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| User: "Bodhisattvacat" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
23 Nov 2004 08:56:07 AM |
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"Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Clayton...but were afraid to ask!" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonyemail.com> wrote in message news:<41a03576$0$7560$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
"Ilya Shambat" <bodhisattvacat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a67f71c.0411201828.301f11ba@posting.google.com...
I was raised by mathematically-minded atheists in the Soviet Union,
the seat of communism.
<snip obvious lies, ignorance and trollage>.
You're an idiot. I have no reason to lie. When something contradicts
your worldview, you have a choice to change your worldview or deny the
facts. In the first case you act in an honest manner; in the second
case you put yourself out of the real world. It seems you have a habit
of doing the latter.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
23 Nov 2004 09:07:03 AM |
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On 23 Nov 2004 06:56:07 -0800, (Bodhisattvacat)
wrote:
"Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Clayton...but were afraid to ask!" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonyemail.com> wrote in message news:<41a03576$0$7560$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
"Ilya Shambat" <bodhisattvacat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a67f71c.0411201828.301f11ba@posting.google.com...
I was raised by mathematically-minded atheists in the Soviet Union,
the seat of communism.
<snip obvious lies, ignorance and trollage>.
You're an idiot. I have no reason to lie. When something contradicts
your worldview, you have a choice to change your worldview or deny the
facts. In the first case you act in an honest manner; in the second
case you put yourself out of the real world. It seems you have a habit
of doing the latter.
The problem is that you described what a theist imagines an atheist
is.
You were "convinced" by things that only a theist believes.
If you're going to lie, try not to be so obvious about it.
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| User: "Maria Underwood" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
23 Nov 2004 03:26:59 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<vck6q0del6n34pc4vduh208bcrj23hrb88@4ax.com>...
On 23 Nov 2004 06:56:07 -0800, (Bodhisattvacat)
wrote:
"Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Clayton...but were afraid to ask!" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonyemail.com> wrote in message news:<41a03576$0$7560$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
"Ilya Shambat" <bodhisattvacat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a67f71c.0411201828.301f11ba@posting.google.com...
I was raised by mathematically-minded atheists in the Soviet Union,
the seat of communism.
<snip obvious lies, ignorance and trollage>.
You're an idiot. I have no reason to lie. When something contradicts
your worldview, you have a choice to change your worldview or deny the
facts. In the first case you act in an honest manner; in the second
case you put yourself out of the real world. It seems you have a habit
of doing the latter.
The problem is that you described what a theist imagines an atheist
is.
You were "convinced" by things that only a theist believes.
If you're going to lie, try not to be so obvious about it.
OH MY GOD! Chris uses his utterly intelligent
"liar-liar-pants-on-fire" logic to show his ability to think deeply.
How impressive. Please, use more name calling to express your views.
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| User: "Bodhisattvacat" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
23 Nov 2004 02:13:58 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<vck6q0del6n34pc4vduh208bcrj23hrb88@4ax.com>...
The problem is that you described what a theist imagines an atheist
is.
You were "convinced" by things that only a theist believes.
If you're going to lie, try not to be so obvious about it.
Another idiot.
<PLONK>
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
23 Nov 2004 02:19:17 PM |
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"Bodhisattvacat" <drr0cket@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4f2532f6.0411231213.454e0378@posting.google.com...
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:<vck6q0del6n34pc4vduh208bcrj23hrb88@4ax.com>...
The problem is that you described what a theist imagines an atheist
is.
You were "convinced" by things that only a theist believes.
If you're going to lie, try not to be so obvious about it.
Another idiot.
<PLONK>
Right back at ya, jackass - PLONK!
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
23 Nov 2004 02:18:11 PM |
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On 23 Nov 2004 12:13:58 -0800, (Bodhisattvacat)
wrote:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<vck6q0del6n34pc4vduh208bcrj23hrb88@4ax.com>...
The problem is that you described what a theist imagines an atheist
is.
You were "convinced" by things that only a theist believes.
If you're going to lie, try not to be so obvious about it.
Another idiot.
Another liar.
<PLONK>
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| User: "jenwolf" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
23 Nov 2004 11:20:11 AM |
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:07:03 -0500, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
The problem is that you described what a theist imagines an atheist is.
How is it a problem? He described the way that he understands his parents
(or whomever it was that raised him). Perhaps "mathematically-minded
atheist" is not something an actual atheist would use to describe
hirself, but it was Ilya's interpretation. I doubt that he would refer to
his parents/guardians as atheists if they were actually theists of some
sort - why would he? Either way it wouldn't lend any more actual
credibility to his story - all of which was his subjective interpretations
of events and other people. Doesn't "How I came to God" say that with the
I? I just don't get where the "problem" is, except that I don't really
understand why he would post "How I came to God" at alt.atheism in the
first place (or for that matter, alt.suicide.holiday). Perhaps he didn't
think he got enough response out of the people at the pagan groups he
posted it to earlier in the year.
You were "convinced" by things that only a theist believes.
So?
If you're going to lie, try not to be so obvious about it.
Lie about what? Where are the lies? He was recounting a *personal* story.
Even if some of his conclusions aren't quite based in what *you* consider
reality, it doesn't mean it's lies. To him it's true, and the subject line
alone says that. When someone says "How I came to God", I take that to
mean that everything that follows is a personal story that might have
interpretations of things that I might not believe in, but that doesn't
mean that the person telling it is lying.
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| User: "Steve O" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 12:38:18 PM |
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"Ilya Shambat" <bodhisattvacat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a67f71c.0411201828.301f11ba@posting.google.com...
I was raised by mathematically-minded atheists in the Soviet Union,
the seat of communism.
For some reason, this speech reminded me of another one.
"My father was a relentlessly self- improving boulangerie owner from Belgium
with low-grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a
fifteen-year-old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father
would womanize, he would drink, he would make outrageous claims, like he
invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being
lazy. A sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane
lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the
spring we'd make meat helmets. If I was insolent, I was placed in a burlap
bag and beaten with reeds. Pretty standard, really. At the age of twelve I
received my first scribe. At the age of fifteen, a Zoroastrian named Vilma
ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn
scrotum. At the age of eighteen, I went off to evil medical school. From
there..."
.
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| User: "K-town" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
22 Nov 2004 02:11:25 PM |
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"Steve O" <stevobo@aol.com> wrote in message
news:30c5khF2ud3h8U1@uni-berlin.de...
"Ilya Shambat" <bodhisattvacat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a67f71c.0411201828.301f11ba@posting.google.com...
I was raised by mathematically-minded atheists in the Soviet Union,
the seat of communism.
For some reason, this speech reminded me of another one.
"My father was a relentlessly self- improving boulangerie owner from
Belgium
with low-grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a
fifteen-year-old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My
father
would womanize, he would drink, he would make outrageous claims, like he
invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being
lazy. A sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the
insane
lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In
the
spring we'd make meat helmets. If I was insolent, I was placed in a burlap
bag and beaten with reeds. Pretty standard, really. At the age of twelve I
received my first scribe. At the age of fifteen, a Zoroastrian named Vilma
ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn
scrotum. At the age of eighteen, I went off to evil medical school. From
there..."
Throw me a frickin' bone here! ;-)
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
22 Nov 2004 08:40:27 AM |
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"Ilya Shambat" <bodhisattvacat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a67f71c.0411201828.301f11ba@posting.google.com...
I was raised by mathematically-minded atheists in the Soviet Union,
the seat of communism. For a long time I was the most anti-Christian
person you'd know. I constantly talked about the evils of
Christianity, their repressions, their hypocrisy, their injustice.
When my first long-term girlfriend, Layo, did an astrology chart for
me, I thought she was joking.
Personally I think this entire post is a joke. Why do you think we'd care?
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 10:05:17 PM |
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(Ilya Shambat) wrote in message news:<a67f71c.0411201828.301f11ba@posting.google.com>...
I was raised by mathematically-minded atheists in the Soviet Union,
the seat of communism. For a long time I was the most anti-Christian
person you'd know. I constantly talked about the evils of
Christianity, their repressions, their hypocrisy, their injustice.
You sound a little obsesive.
When my first long-term girlfriend, Layo, did an astrology chart for
me, I thought she was joking. Then I looked at her work and found it
to be astonishingly accurate.
You sound *very* gullible.
How would you like to buy the Brooklyn Bridge?
I happen to be in possession and be willing to part with the title.
<snip great steaming mounds of it>
The God I talk to is very understanding, but also demanding and does
not tolerate things that are biblically wrong. I do things for Him,
and sometimes He takes my advice on things that He had not previously
thought of. And Jesus is there to instruct me in His ways.
He - that is, the omnipotent creator and ruler of the universe takes *your* advice?
Oh yeah!
That's gonna make me really keen to worship the Big Guy!
Any Diety who takes advice from you is not someone I would want ruling my reality.
Mark.
.
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| User: "Hypatia Kosh" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 07:24:43 PM |
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(Ilya Shambat) wrote in message news:<a67f71c.0411201828.301f11ba@posting.google.com>...
I was raised by mathematically-minded atheists in the Soviet Union,
the seat of communism. For a long time I was the most anti-Christian
person you'd know. I constantly talked about the evils of
Christianity, their repressions, their hypocrisy, their injustice.
When my first long-term girlfriend, Layo, did an astrology chart for
me, I thought she was joking. Then I looked at her work and found it
to be astonishingly accurate.
Guess you're a gullible idiot.
Your parents must be gibbering.
-Hy
.
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| User: "Fester" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 06:28:31 AM |
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He takes my advice on things that He had not previously thought of. And
Jesus is there to instruct me in His ways.
Tell "him" to strike me dead. If "he" does it, then I'll believe you.
.
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| User: "jenwolf" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 01:08:16 PM |
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On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:28:31 +0000, Fester wrote:
He takes my advice on things that He had not previously thought of. And
Jesus is there to instruct me in His ways.
Tell "him" to strike me dead. If "he" does it, then I'll believe you.
Yeah and while you're at it, tell "him" to get me about 30 million
dollars. And if "he" does it, I'll believe you.
.
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| User: "Western World" |
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| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 10:03:58 PM |
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I was raised by Chistians.
As a child I swallowed the superstition
By the time I was 30 I had come to look at Christianity as the
untenable, illogical and bigotry filled superstition of the uneducated.
At 54 I know that I am free of the religious garbage that imprisoned
generations.
===========================
===========================
CHALLENGING CHRISTIANITY'S
STORY OF ITSELF
The Times of Constantine to Justinian
http://community-2.webtv.net/Tales_of_the_Western_World/RL/
ARCHEOLOGY:
Captivity and Exodus are not based in fact
http://community-2.webtv.net/headbands/DECONSTRUCTING/index.html
.
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| User: "mike" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
20 Nov 2004 10:24:33 PM |
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Ilya Shambat wrote:
I also
started being involuntarily moved to look at the clock while it was
saying such numbers as 3:33 or 11:11.
This has been happening to me for the last ten years. What does it mean?
I have been seeing it as a sign of mental illness.
Mike (embarrased to be asking this)
.
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| User: "afraid not" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
20 Nov 2004 10:36:36 PM |
|
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"mike" <mloux55@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2-KdncbOj47ihT3cRVn-3g@centurytel.net...
| Ilya Shambat wrote:
|
| I also
| > started being involuntarily moved to look at the clock while it was
| > saying such numbers as 3:33 or 11:11.
|
| This has been happening to me for the last ten years. What does it mean?
| I have been seeing it as a sign of mental illness.
| Mike (embarrased to be asking this)
You probably didn't notice it much before the days of digital clocks, just
my theory of my own observations.. :)
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 07:20:48 AM |
|
|
In our last episode <2-KdncbOj47ihT3cRVn-3g@centurytel.net>, mike lept out
of the bushes shouting:
Ilya Shambat wrote:
I also
started being involuntarily moved to look at the clock while it was
saying such numbers as 3:33 or 11:11.
This has been happening to me for the last ten years. What does it mean? I
have been seeing it as a sign of mental illness.
Mike (embarrased to be asking this)
It means you're remembering the interesting patterns and forgetting the
mundane ones. Humans seek patterns. It's something that's beneficial to
our survival. Such as if you don't notice patterns in the weather, you
don't know when to plant crops.
All it means is you don't remember the times (and yes they happen) when
you look at the clock and see 3:42 or 11:14 instead of *interesting
patterns such as 3:45 or 11:11. It means such things as you remember the
times a song was running through your head and you reached for the radio
and damn if that very song wasn't playing. You don't remember all the
times a song was running through your head, you turned on the radio, and
some *other song came on. You remember the times you were thinking of
someone and they happened to call. You forget the times somebody called
and you were thinking of lunch.
Mental illness? I doubt it. Weird little coincidences happen all the time.
Maybe you could drive yourself a little nuts by thinking it "means
something." Take a step back and pay attention, you can see what's going
on.
Like clocks, for instance. How many times a day do you look at a clock?
We're surrounded by them. Watches and VCRs and coffee makers and microwave
ovens and the computer monitor and wall clocks and the "ticker" on CNN
and... and... and... Of all those times you see a clock, how many times
are all that interesting? Probably a very tiny sliver of a fraction. But
the interesting ones, those you'll remember, those you'll notice the next
time.
The guy going on about seeing 3:33 is just forgetting all the times he
looked at a clock and it was 3:21 or 3:35 or 3:40 or 2:59 or... or... or...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
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| User: "Bodhisattvacat" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
22 Nov 2004 11:52:30 AM |
|
|
mike <mloux55@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2-KdncbOj47ihT3cRVn-3g@centurytel.net>...
Ilya Shambat wrote:
I also
started being involuntarily moved to look at the clock while it was
saying such numbers as 3:33 or 11:11.
This has been happening to me for the last ten years. What does it mean?
I have been seeing it as a sign of mental illness.
Mike (embarrased to be asking this)
If it was mental illness, it would occur at the same rate as chance.
Conduct an experiment. Record all the numbers you see on the clock
during a week's period time. If more than 1/60th of them are master
numbers, then you got a real thing taking place.
.
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|
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| User: "discon" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
30 Nov 2004 09:10:36 AM |
|
|
Bodhisattvacat <drr0cket@yahoo.com> commented...
mike <mloux55@hotmail.com> wrote...
Ilya Shambat wrote:
started being involuntarily moved to look at the clock while it was
saying such numbers as 3:33 or 11:11.
This has been happening to me for the last ten years. What does it mean?
I have been seeing it as a sign of mental illness.
If it was mental illness, it would occur at the same rate as chance.
Conduct an experiment. Record all the numbers you see on the clock
during a week's period time. If more than 1/60th of them are master
numbers, then you got a real thing taking place.
lol. your unconscious is always percieving much more than your
conscious mind registers. when the unconscious notices interesting
numbers on a clock, some may consider that reason to alert the conscious
mind that something significant is occurring. when the conscious mind
agrees, that's when it may be mental illness.
the unconscious is likely to know exactly when it's 11:11 and 3:33 every
single day. if you consider that meaningful, it can become an
inclination or even habit to look at the clock at those times.
--
http://home.nycap.rr.com/torpor/
.
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| User: "Apostate" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
30 Nov 2004 02:54:54 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:10:36 GMT, discon <see-url@berkshire.rr.com> wrote:
Bodhisattvacat <drr0cket@yahoo.com> commented...
mike <mloux55@hotmail.com> wrote...
Ilya Shambat wrote:
started being involuntarily moved to look at the clock while it was
saying such numbers as 3:33 or 11:11.
This has been happening to me for the last ten years. What does it mean?
I have been seeing it as a sign of mental illness.
If it was mental illness, it would occur at the same rate as chance.
Conduct an experiment. Record all the numbers you see on the clock
during a week's period time. If more than 1/60th of them are master
numbers, then you got a real thing taking place.
lol. your unconscious is always percieving much more than your
conscious mind registers. when the unconscious notices interesting
numbers on a clock, some may consider that reason to alert the conscious
mind that something significant is occurring. when the conscious mind
agrees, that's when it may be mental illness.
the unconscious is likely to know exactly when it's 11:11 and 3:33 every
single day. if you consider that meaningful, it can become an
inclination or even habit to look at the clock at those times.
The unconscious, it might be well to remember, is what runs worms.
With bigger 'brains', we just have the wetware to run more processes.
--
/Apostate
atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; Billions Served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
For e-mail, hold that tiger!
.
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| User: "Andrew Lias" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
24 Nov 2004 05:58:25 PM |
|
|
mike <mloux55@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2-KdncbOj47ihT3cRVn-3g@centurytel.net>...
Ilya Shambat wrote:
I also
started being involuntarily moved to look at the clock while it was
saying such numbers as 3:33 or 11:11.
This has been happening to me for the last ten years. What does it mean?
I have been seeing it as a sign of mental illness.
Mike (embarrased to be asking this)
It doesn't mean much. I tend to notice when clocks are at 3:14. In
my case, the fact that my birthday is March 14th is sufficient to
explain the fact that I notice that time more than others.
In your case, the very fact that you realize that you've been catching
the clock at certain times is priming your brain to notice such times
in the future. It's a self-sustaining cycle.
--
Andrew Lias
http://andrewlias.blogspot.com
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
24 Nov 2004 12:38:06 PM |
|
|
Ilya Shambat wrote:
< snip >
I do things for Him,
and sometimes He takes my advice on things that He had not previously
thought of.
ROTFLMAO!!
Thanks! I needed that.
< snip >
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
.
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|
| User: "Don Kresch" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 11:01:52 AM |
|
|
In alt.atheism on 20 Nov 2004 18:28:57 -0800,
bodhisattvacat@hotmail.com (Ilya Shambat) let us all know that:
I was raised by mathematically-minded atheists in the Soviet Union,
No, you weren't, troll.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 04:53:09 AM |
|
|
In article <a67f71c.0411201828.301f11ba@posting.google.com>,
(Ilya Shambat) wrote:
I was raised by mathematically-minded atheists in the Soviet Union,
the seat of communism. For a long time I was the most anti-Christian
person you'd know. I constantly talked about the evils of
Christianity, their repressions, their hypocrisy, their injustice.
Too bad you lost your rational mind. Poor dope.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.
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|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 06:34:10 AM |
|
|
In our last episode <a67f71c.0411201828.301f11ba@posting.google.com>, Ilya
Shambat lept out of the bushes shouting:
When my first long-term girlfriend, Layo, did an astrology chart for me, I
thought she was joking. Then I looked at her work and found it to be
astonishingly accurate.
At this point, your credibility went into negative numbers...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
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|
|
| User: "unhappy" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
20 Nov 2004 08:59:06 PM |
|
|
On 20 Nov 2004 18:28:57 -0800,
bodhisattvacat@hotmail.com (Ilya Shambat) wrote:
So now it's the daily battle within my soul, between good and evil.
The God I talk to is very understanding, but also demanding and does
not tolerate things that are biblically wrong. I do things for Him,
and sometimes He takes my advice on things that He had not previously
thought of. And Jesus is there to instruct me in His ways.
did u write this, illya?
unhappy
.
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 06:35:31 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:59:06 +1100, unhappy <blah@blah.com> wrote:
On 20 Nov 2004 18:28:57 -0800,
bodhisattvacat@hotmail.com (Ilya Shambat) wrote:
So now it's the daily battle within my soul, between good and evil.
The God I talk to is very understanding, but also demanding and does
not tolerate things that are biblically wrong. I do things for Him,
and sometimes He takes my advice on things that He had not previously
thought of. And Jesus is there to instruct me in His ways.
did u write this, illya?
I doubt it. It's a cut'n'paste regurgipost of something a preacher who
doesn't know what an atheist is, tells his gullible flock, none of
whom know either.
All posting this to an atheist newsgroup does, is show that the person
doing it is an in-your-face nasty, stupid idiot.
unhappy
.
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|
| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
20 Nov 2004 11:46:51 PM |
|
|
unhappy wrote:
On 20 Nov 2004 18:28:57 -0800,
bodhisattvacat@hotmail.com (Ilya Shambat) wrote:
So now it's the daily battle within my soul, between good and evil.
The God I talk to is very understanding, but also demanding and does
not tolerate things that are biblically wrong. I do things for Him,
and sometimes He takes my advice on things that He had not previously
thought of.
So please tell how you manage to converse with 'Him' since to my
knowledge no-one, yet, has managed it.
Or is it a lie, like those TV evangelists who get on camera in front of a
couple of thousand people and say something like.... "God told me....
this that or the other"
They are lying through their teeth you know!
And Jesus is there to instruct me in His ways.
did u write this, illya?
unhappy
.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
|
| Title: Re: How I came to God |
21 Nov 2004 05:17:17 AM |
|
|
On 20 Nov 2004 18:28:57 -0800, (Ilya
Shambat) wrote:
When my first long-term girlfriend, Layo, did an astrology chart for
me, I thought she was joking. Then I looked at her work and found it
to be astonishingly accurate.
Then there is absolutely no need to read the other 350 lines of utter
nonsense, now is there?
.
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